June 28, 2026 • 30 mins
We know that breathing well calms us down, but did you know that proper breathing is also critical to the way we function as humans? You might have something called breathing pattern disorder, and you might not even know it.
In this episode of We Need To Talk, respiratory physiotherapist Abby Stewart explains exactly what breathing pattern disorder is, what we can do about it, and tell us a bit about her own journey that led to this kind of work.
You can follow her on Instagram @the_breathingphysio
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We Need to Talk Tony Street's lifestyle and Wellness podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, welcome to We Need to Talk. It's lovely to
have you with us again today. A question, now, how
often have you heard the words take a deep breath
when you're stressed or anxious. We know that breathing well
calms us down, but did you know that proper breathing
as I take a big breath is also critical to
the way we function as humans. You might have something
(00:28):
called breathing pattern disorder and you might not even know it.
Respiratory physiotherapist Abbie Stewart is going to explain exactly what
that is, what we can do about it, and tell
us a bit about her own journey that led to
this kind of work. You can follow her on Instagram
at the Underscore Breathing Physio. It is lovely to see you, Abby.
I have to say, as soon as you came and
(00:48):
I was like, I need to be more aware of
my own breath. Suddenly I felt out of breath just
having a breathing expert.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
With me, and I think that's so understandable. Thank you
so much for having me on, and it's so exciting
that we can talk about this conversation. And also you're
not the first person to say that too, I bet
I bear.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
So this dysfunctional breathing, what exactly is that?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So? Dysfunctional breathing in its essence is when we get
a disruption of our normal breathing pattern, so that's how
we're breathing. What happens is we develop this inefficient breathing pattern.
Our breath is supposed to balance our body, what we
call homeostasis, and when we get an inefficiency in how
we're breathing, that can cause a lot of different symptoms.
(01:32):
A common example of a dysfunctional breathing pattern is probably
one that many listening can resignate to is upper chest breathing.
That's not the primary muscles for breathing, your upper chest muscles,
So if we're only using those for the majority of
our breaths versus our diaphragm, the primary muscle, that can
develop into what we call biomechanical alterations. And actually, for
(01:56):
some people, they're getting tight in their chest, they're going
to the doctors, all of their medical tests are coming
back as normal, and actually it's not just anxiety. No
one's looking at how they're breathing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So the breathing's at the core of quite a lot.
How do you know if you've got dysfunctional breathing.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's a really great question and one I'm really passionate
about because we actually have to look at all of
the areas of your breathing pattern. So five key things
to look at to understand if you have a dysfunctional
breathing pattern or not. Would be five key areas of
your breathing pattern, which we can talk through. The first
one is if you're breathing into your upper chest more
(02:36):
than your diaphragm, and that links into one of the
second ones as well as signs of what we call
air hunger, so that feeling like you're not quite getting
a satisfying breath of air in and signs of air
hunger show up is taking bigger yawns or yawns or
size to try and get a good breath, or some
(02:57):
people take catch up breaths or their whole their breath
and then suddenly that makes sense, I think that's me. Yeah,
So we've got these signs of like bigger volume breaths,
and also many experienced ear hunger, which triggers them to
take more size than your ones. Another thing that we
often get overlooked when it comes to functional breathing patterns
(03:20):
is can you hear your breathing or not? So at rest,
the breath should be quiet. Yet we live in a
society that's often forcing our breathing exercises be very noisy
and exaggerated. So actually, for a lot of people, when
they're breathing, if their breathing's too noisy on the inhale,
the excel will both. That can trigger what we call
(03:42):
an efficient breathing and over breathing, breathing more than what
your body needs.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
And no one wants to be labeled to breather do they?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well absolutely. Before we go on to the last one
is that for many people it can shop quite socially,
where if they are feeling like they often need to
yun and or they're taking big side, people can go,
why are you on? You tie in it?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, you're disinterested in what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
A sigh, Yeah you're okay, Yeah, I'm fine, I'm just
trying to breathe. It's something I commonly hear. The next
one is then looking at your We talk a lot
about heart rate, right and your heart rate, and that's
really a really important physiological measure. But we need to
pay more attention to our breathing rate. So that's how
many breaths we're taking per minute. So another sign of
(04:28):
dysfunctional breathing is if we're taking more breaths per minute
than normal. So normal ranges ten to fourteen breaths per minute.
And if we're breathing in, you've got your inhale your exhale,
and if you're inhale to exhale is happening at a
faster rhythm, you're over breathing. A lot of people lose
the paws at the end of their breath out. The
(04:50):
power of the pause. I often say, so, if you're
listening now, chick in with yourself. As you're listening, do
you have at rest if you're just sitting around a
natural pause at the end of the breath out, many
of us just go straight back into our next breath.
It makes sense, and that can create inefficiencies in our
(05:13):
breathing and counterintuitively, that can actually increase the sensation of
air hunger and breathlessness even if your medical tests have
come back as normal. So those would be some of
the key things to look at. It's not just about
upper chest breathing, And I think that's probably an important
point from that dysfunctional breathing audit you can do with
yourself as it's not just about looking in the mirror
(05:34):
to see if you're an upper chest breathe it's also
looking a bit beyond that to say, can I hear
my breathing when I'm breathing in? Can I hear it
when I breathe out? If I can, it's a little sign.
Am I showing signs off your hunger? Ay? You union
all the time taking big breaths. Ah, that's a sign.
That's something I can work on. And then as my
breathing fast is my breathing slow? How do I know that? Well,
(05:56):
have a look at the rest. Do you have a
pause at the end of the breath out some.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Of you are.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
If you do have the dysfunctional breathing, how do you
then fix it? As a physiotherapist, Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So the key mechanism is we pick up these dysfunctional
breathing patterns. For some people, when that becomes a more
chronic and consistent it can develop to what we call
a breathing pattern disorder, which is the diagnostic tim we
use for the mechanisms of dysfunctional breathing patterns. So the
main treatment for breathing pattern disorder is what we call
(06:29):
breathing retraining. So that is about essentially restoring efficient and
physiologically balanced breathing pattern. Again, so is the term I
said at the start is we've developed an inefficient breathing
pattern and we're feeling a bit tired in our chest.
We're sometimes feeling a little bit dizzy. Some people can
feel quite panicky because they feel like they're not getting
(06:51):
enough air. So then breathing retraining is the treatment to
that because it's efficient breathing pattern and restore a breathing
pattern that works for your body. And we again live
in a society where we've got an influx of breathing
techniques that actually induce further over breathing, like, for example,
(07:13):
box breathing breathing and for four holding for four at
the top, breathing out for four, holding for for at
the bottom. That's a technique now that can actually make
a dysfunctional breathing pattern significantly worse and amplify someone symptoms.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So we told to box breathe when we want to
calm ourselves down, but it can be counterintuitive.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yes for this specific and we're told for people with
anxiety or panic or post COVID other conditions comorbidity, is
that you need to do box breathing as your main
breathing exercise, But those conditions have some of the highest
rates of dysfunctional breathing patterns. We know that those with
(07:59):
anxiety to forty percent of them from the literature have
dysfunctional breathing patterns, and then my research showed a bit
higher that for those where dysfunctional breathing pattern was mentioned,
they talked about it in the context of anxiety over
fifty percent of the time. So we're saying we should
be doing box breathing to improve your breathing, but actually
that's false if you've got a dysfunctional breathing pattern. If
(08:20):
they break that down, if I'm already breathing into my
chest and I'm breathing in for four seconds, often when
people do box breathing, they breathe quite noisy, So it's
already one of the things that we talked about at
the start. Don't need to breathe super noisy at rest.
That makes people dizzy. Some people they're getting now tight
in their chest in two three four, they're breathing too bag.
(08:41):
They don't need to do a big breath on top
of an already big breathing pattern.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They need to learn to restore efficiency. And then we
get a little bit into the science of your breathing
pattern when we talk about your breath. Yes, your diaphragm.
It's primary pump of your breath, and we talked about
how that needs to be functioning poply as we breathe.
When we breathe in, the diaphragm expands. When we breathe out,
(09:10):
it relaxes. But that's just one of the primary functions.
Another function of breath is to balance oxygen and carbon
dioxide within our body. So a lot of people are
going to the emergency department the doctors because they feel
like they can't breathe and they feel like they're running
out of oxygen, but actually their oxygen levels are fine,
(09:33):
and it's actually the balance of carbon dioxide that starts
to change when it comes to your breath. And this
is really important with what we're just talking about when
it comes to box breathing. Is because i've mentioned the
term overbreathing quite a lot. And all that means is
you're breathing too much. And if I'm breathing in oxygen,
(09:54):
we're getting enough oxygen. We're good at breathing. We're breathing
too much, We're good at breathing a lot. It's often
what I say to my clients because they feel like
they're they need to breathe more, but I'm like, no,
you are breathing more. It's actually learning to breathe a
less makes you feel better and more. Unpack that. But
this carbon dark side is really important. This will probably
(10:14):
be one of the most sciencey parts of today, so
hang type for those listening, but it's really important. It
explains why you're feeling like you can't get a good
breath of fear, and it explains why sometimes you're feeling
a bit of brain fog, dizziness, even pins and needles
in around your lips sometimes fur or tingles and your fingertips,
(10:35):
or for those who are feeling a lot of onset
of panic, carbon darks I can play a role. If
you're blowing off too much carbon dark side with bigger,
faster breaths, it's going to lower within your blood base
and that's really important. Firstly, box breathing is going to
increase the chance of that happening because you're noisy breathing,
you're dumping out a lot of carbon dioxide. So for
(10:55):
many people, the people who are saying I've done box
breathing and it makes me feel worse, not only does
it make their chest type biomechanically because they upper chest breathing,
but it's also disrupting the biochemical balance of breathing. An
exercise that we say should make improve anxiety is actually
triggering dysfunctional breathing patterns. It's going to for a lot
of people spiral them into a panic attack because their
(11:17):
carbon dark side levels drop, and then that tightens blood
vessels in the body. It amps your nervous system into
flight and flight when carbon dark side levels get too low,
and then your breathing center, which detects carbon dark side,
it starts to become a little bit more sensitized to
(11:38):
carbon dark side. So basically we get these urges that
we need to breathe more.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So instead of the box breathing, what would you recommend
when you know, like I think about you know, last
night I was hosting the New Zealand Podcast Awards. So
when I go in instead of box breathing, what would
be another technique you could do?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So if you have been listening to some of these
signs of dysfunctional breathing, you're like, yeahbee, I resignate. The
first step is well following what I call like an
ABC framework for improving your breathing. So the first one
is the A, which is awareness. Being aware of your
breathing pattern is the first step I think we rush
(12:18):
into trying to fix things. So if you are in
your moment of your everyday life, like an instance before
you are presenting, we can all kind of do this together.
Just if you're driving, I would recommend coming back to
this part a little bit later. Two hands on the
wheel please, is awareness is we can place one hand
on the chest and then placing one hand on the belly.
(12:42):
I really encourage people during this to have a form
of visual feedback. So either you're in front of a
mirror or you're just gently looking down at your arms
and you're going to breathe in and out at your
own rhythm, and you're just noticing what hand is moving
more as you breathe. Having a look to see if
(13:04):
that top hand is moving, having a look to feel
do you need to take some of those bigger breaths.
Do you have this overwhelming urge to take a yawn
or a sigh or a catch up breath? Is it
slow or fast? Is there a pause at the end
of the breath out? And by having that awareness as
(13:28):
the first step, it can feel a bit uncomfortable. Many
people find when they stop and draw awareness to their breath,
they feel worse in their breathing. So a lot of
people actually trying to distract themselves from their breath because
they don't want to think about it because when they
think about it, it feels worse. Yes, So my biggest
piece of advice to you, the number A is actually
(13:49):
the A. Awareness is the first step, and if it
feels uncomfortable, that's very normal. That's actually a sign you're
going to benefit from the next step, which is B.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Back to we need to talk with Tony Street, okay, and.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What's B so B is breathing retraining. So that is
about restoring a balanced breathing pattern. Now you're probably wondering, well, yeah,
how do I do that? The two key things to
focus on is diaphromatic breathing. Now, we always recommend starting
breathing retraining lying down. So lying down, there are some
(14:29):
breathing positions we use to improve diaphragmatic breathing, So that
would be lying down. Bending your knees helps to just
soften your core a little bit, so there's less muscle guarding.
What can be really helpful when you're lying down is
what we call feedback will biofeedback where we place a
wee pack or a book. Actually it's one pasler on
(14:52):
the belly earlier this week, but you have feedback on
your belly. And as you're in this position lying down,
being something on your belly, you're breathing in and the
feedback connects you in to the diaphragm movement more.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yes, and that's the key to get the diaphragm.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Move moving first, Yeah, moving first, and off. We live
in a world of like breathing perfectionism, where we're trying
to breathe so rigidly. We're trying to breathe so three
sixty or we're just wanting to breathe into our nose
all the time. But I challenge that because actually your
breath should be functional, which means it adapts to what
you're doing. So lie down, bingjo knees, place something on
(15:32):
your belly, feel your belly moving. Some people find it
helpful to come into what I call the breathers reset position,
which is placing your hands above your heat. That can
help to switch off the upper chest muscles, which is
why when runners get to the end of the race,
what do we do? You lean forward? We place the
(15:53):
hands above your true Why do we do that? It's
because it optimizes the length tension relationship off your diaphragm.
Some people with ear hunger find they move their body
to try and get the good breath and they're like,
why am I doing that heavy? But it's because they're
trying to position their diaphragm in a place to work well.
And I often say try less hard right when it
(16:14):
comes to the diaphragm breathing. So start lying down, hands
above head if that's helpful, and just have a lot down.
Notice that it's moving, and this is important this part
that it's going to feel uncomfortable at first, because if
you've had a habit of upper chest breathing for years,
your muscles of your diaphragm and also your breathing center
(16:34):
that controls the century connections off the muscle has to
learn that. So it feels quite jumpy. So often people
either stop at eight because they're like, this feels uncomfortable.
I don't want to make it worse, So make key
piece of advice for number A awareness is be curious.
Take one step forward towards improving your breathing pan and
that's going to move you to number B. Now when
(16:56):
you're at B, you're starting your breathing your training. My
biggest piece of it vice is taking one step towards
improving your breathing. Start with difromatic breathing, lying down, and
if it feels uncomfortable, that's normal. It gets better with practice.
It's like anything. We can then progress your breathing retraining.
There are so many different areas of breathing pattern right,
so the next thing is just slowing it down. I
(17:21):
like to use counting as a guide, not a role,
and that's probably different to what people see online as
it's going you must breathe in for four out. For sex,
people just forcing the breathing. They're like, this isn't calming me,
So slow your breath down A nice way to a
nice count that gets you within a normal breathing rate.
Rhythm is just going in two three, your belly rising
(17:46):
up and then out slowly two three, four, not out
forced two through four. You don't need to push the
air out. Imagine your exhale is like you've slowed down
a video. The videos now on zero point five speed.
You don't actually need to make it longer and push
the air out, You just need to move it slower.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
This often bottlenecks people because their breathing center within more
of the central respiratory breathing areas is used to detecting
a faster rhythm. So when we slow it down, people
can actually notice an increase in the air hunger. So
many people often say to me, I'm doing it, but
it feels like it's not helping, it's making it worse.
(18:28):
And my biggest piece of advice to you, if you've
listening and maybe you've tried this while listening to me now,
or you're going to try it later as aar hunger
in this context as your friend, it's not a threat.
If you learn to sit with the air hunger, something
on your belly, slow it down, then that builds your
tolerance to slow breathing builds your tolerance to normal carbon
(18:51):
dark side levels and then before you know it, it
becomes relaxing and meditative nake.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We need to talk podcast. A pre said on your
iHeart app, just step and never miss an episode.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
When you're on to C and what is C?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, and we can't forget the nose as well on B.
So nasal breathing starts off okay, but then C is
contextual integration. This one's one of my favorites because everyone
walks a different life, so we need to contextually integrate
your breathing retraining into your breday life. So firstly, we
look at positions. As humans, you don't lie down all day,
(19:28):
so we shouldn't be doing our breathing exercises lying down
all day. Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It'd be quite nice if we could just lie down
all day, but it's not reality, right.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, We've got dynamic lives and we've got small pockets
of time, So how can we utilize those pockets of
time to optimize our breath in the best way. So
when we are sitting, it's about first awareness in that position.
So you go back to your ABC, but you're doing
it in a different position because you're integrating it, then
you're coming into your breathing retraining again, it's a stepping stone.
(19:56):
We've got to practice be first lying down breathing retraining
before you integrate your diaphragmatic breathing into setting. It can
feel a bit more challenging. It takes practice. It's a skill.
Is this a skill? A lot of us singers or
people in talking professions reach out because there's this secondary
function of breathing, which is the integration of your breath
(20:18):
with vocal control and phonation and how we utilize movement
of breath for speech. But when we're speaking, those who
have high talking roles often are more susceptible to overbreathing
and the symptoms of I'm talking and like I'm running
out of air right now. I'm sure we've all a
lot of people in it talking roles have probably felt
(20:38):
that it's some occasion. So then the context you integration
part is that's your context as you talk a lot,
and that's okay, so do I. So how can we
integrate using your diaphragm for when you're speaking a bit more,
taking moments where instead of going and taking a big
(21:00):
di in we person lip breath out through your mouth
like you're blowing out a candle. Quietly drop the shoulders.
You have little breathing efficiency, resets integration Contextually, A lot
of the timer is into exercise as wow. Some people
with dysfunctional breathing find that movement helps, but some people
(21:23):
start to avoid exercise because they don't want their symptoms
to get worse. So a lot of it's confidence to
integrating into exercise, not avoiding things, and then the confidence
comes with that. With that, the talking and the exercise
are probably two main ways we integrate it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
But it's gosh's so many different things that we do
in life, right, like when we're on our phones and
we're on technology, how can we take a little moment
integrate it in with your relaxation response, right, drop the shoulders,
deep body muscle relaxing. We don't want to develop breathing
rigidity where we're just hyper fixating on the breath. So
(22:05):
the sea part is really important because you're integrating your
breathing retraining with other things.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, petition and routine. Have that you during COVID recognize
that your breathing wasn't right?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Tell us about your personal story.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yes, and when I think of my personal story, I
have now connected a lot of the dots together that
I didn't used to.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And on reflection, it actually all started in childhood, where
I would have been around five sacks and I would
always say to my mom, I've got bad breathing. I
can't get good breaths, and then my mum last I
would then Carmen should stroke my head until I went
to bed, and then off I went tonight. That was
(22:54):
my first sign though, of dysfunctional breathing. It's not just
an adult thing. It's actually quite highly pred in kids
in youth and in kids and for the parents listening.
If your child is saying, oh, my breath isn't feeling
deep enough, not getting good breaths, it's a sign, and
(23:15):
there's respiratory physios here to help with that. It's important
to go to the doctor too, just to make sure
there's nothing else going on underlying. But that's a really
important sign, the most common thing I hear in youth.
So just holding space for the parents listening for your kids.
Be nice for that to be passed down more because
often people to say, oh, you're just anxious. Yes, well,
(23:38):
we don't want to start that narrative when they are ten, but.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It could be pretty simply fixed as well.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And then kids absolutely, because I haven't had the habits
for as long, they do so so well. So that
was my first whisper. Then I got another whisper through
university where I had chronic neck pain and it was
always better when I was lying down. And if we
circle back to the first fee breathing retraining, lying down
(24:06):
easier to use your diaphragm. Right i'd stand up, it
would get worse. On reflection, it was because I was
using my upper chest to breathe, so the muscles and
my neck were getting so tight. I hadn't connected into
my breathing yet because I hadn't had the ear hunger part,
which I'll go into, but I reckonize moster, I don't
have nick thing now. As soon as I started retraining
(24:28):
my breathing matter, it took the pressure off. It's a
pressure system too. My diaphragm is expanding lower three sixty.
These muscles aren't switching on your upper neck. Muscles are
made out of more what we call type two muscle fibers,
which are more easily fatigable. They're not made for endurance.
Think if your diaphrame is a marathon runner, so it's
(24:50):
wants to work all the time. And then COVID came around,
So that was a that was really hard. So after COVID,
I didn't feel it if first, but a couple of
weeks after I just I could not breathe. I could
not breathe.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
It was it from getting COVID.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Post COVID, Yeah, and we know the prevalence of tsunk
a green panatle now we do, right, but at the
time it had just come and we don't get taught
this at undergrad as physios, right, so this requires extra training,
is a physio. So it felt like I was sitting
in a hot sauna and I'd been in there for
(25:30):
half an hour and someone's talking to me. And for
those who are saunas you'll know, Yeah, that's an uncomfortable feeling.
And that's how it would feel twenty pretty much for
most of the day. And it was really hard. You
couldn't get good breaths, and I was a yawner. I'd
chronically yawn my chest. It felt like an elephant was
(25:52):
sitting on my chest and the biggest thing here was
it wasn't when I was anxious. So I know my
body pretty well and I was into a lot of
holistic practices at that time. Still, so to then go
to the doctor, my medical tests to come back as
normal and then just say, you sure it's not just anxiety.
No it's not. So I'm going to get to the
(26:15):
boot of it. And I'm so grateful I managed to
connect to an incredible, incredible respiratory physio therapist shout out
to Becky who supported me with my breathing retraining journey,
and then that just led from one thing to starting
up a couple of respiratory physio therapy services myself, and
then that birthed into the breathing physio And I'm grateful
(26:37):
that things are much better now. And I think having
had lived experience with breathing pattern disorder, and quite a
severe one, it allows me to, I think, guide people through,
particularly those stages of the journey that you know, I
don't think I talked about, which is like breathing gratredity.
Like you know, I learned how to breathe properly, but
(26:59):
I had to unlo learn how to breathe properly and
not constantly monitor the good way of breathing.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah, so how has it from sorting it out? How
has it changed your life massively? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So, well, the first one is just like muscle tension.
I had so much draw, chronic to daw tension, chronic
semitic nick pain and tightness. I'd also get the stitch
a lot and tightness around my ribcage. It's really common
as well. If you're getting that, that's very typical your diaphragm.
Just to lose a strength that was massive. And the
(27:33):
biggest one was ear hunger. Like I was in a
I'm in a talking based profession and I love to
use my voice, and after every single client, I'd have
to lie down and just do my breathing retraining and
now I can talk. And whenever i'm talking like this,
I think these are the moment. It's like if I'm presenting,
I'm doing webinars, talking to clients, I have moments quite
(27:57):
often where I'm like, I'm so grateful, it's much better,
and I feel so privileged to be able to support
people through the obviously exercise, but I think it's nice
also because there are when the whispers they call them whispers.
When the whispers do come up, when the aar hunger
whispers do come up for me, or the chest tightness,
It's something that I see as a part of my
(28:19):
breathing well being versus like something's wrong. And I feel
very passionate about guiding people to get to that stage
of kind of neutrality with the whispers.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
So what would be your advice?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Then?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Just finally, if you had to say to anyone listening
to the say, oh, yes, I recognize those symptoms. I
think I've got ear hunger, or I might potentially have
respits or your.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Disorder, or they've got the stiffy symptoms. What would be
their first course of action? Where would you what would
you get them to do?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Well, firstly, be proud of yourself that you've probably done
a from the ABC, which is awareness. Yeah, and then
the next stage would be B B be you need
to start breathing retraining and you don't need to do
that alone. You can do that through self guided ways,
through self guided video format. I've got quite a few
of those. But also, you know, respiratory physiotherapists, we're here
(29:11):
to help. It's our favorite thing to do is support
people to retrain their breathing pattern. It's definitely something you
don't need to stick out and just do yourself. I
think that would be my biggest piece of advice. And also,
you're not going crazy, it's not all in your head.
And it does get better. Does it feel challenging at first? Yes?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
But is that normal?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yes? And doesn't get so much better? And does your
breath start to give you superpowers? My breath gives me superpowers? Now,
absolutely it does. But as I often say to people,
just take one step, like, what's one step you can
take towards improving how your breathing. The one step might
be diaphragmatic breathing like we've talked about. One step might
(29:52):
be reaching out and booking an appointment. The one step
might be nose breathing for even thirty seconds if you're
a chronic mouth breather. Just start, what's one step you
can take? And it's going to change your health and
wellness in ways you won't even realize. So just start
with one step.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Abby. That is so helpful.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Thank you so much today and all the best with
the rest of your business. And I'm sure again if
you want to hear more, you can follow Abby on
Instagram at the Underscore Breathing Physio.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Thank you so much, Tony, thanks for listening to We
need to talk.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Contact us on Instagram and we need to talk with
Tony Street or email. We need to talk at Costonline,
dot co dot nz
We Need to Talk Tony Street's lifestyle and Wellness podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, welcome to We Need to Talk. It's lovely to
have you with us again today. A question, now, how
often have you heard the words take a deep breath
when you're stressed or anxious. We know that breathing well
calms us down, but did you know that proper breathing
as I take a big breath is also critical to
the way we function as humans. You might have something
(00:28):
called breathing pattern disorder and you might not even know it.
Respiratory physiotherapist Abbie Stewart is going to explain exactly what
that is, what we can do about it, and tell
us a bit about her own journey that led to
this kind of work. You can follow her on Instagram
at the Underscore Breathing Physio. It is lovely to see you, Abby.
I have to say, as soon as you came and
(00:48):
I was like, I need to be more aware of
my own breath. Suddenly I felt out of breath just
having a breathing expert.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
With me, and I think that's so understandable. Thank you
so much for having me on, and it's so exciting
that we can talk about this conversation. And also you're
not the first person to say that too, I bet
I bear.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
So this dysfunctional breathing, what exactly is that?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So? Dysfunctional breathing in its essence is when we get
a disruption of our normal breathing pattern, so that's how
we're breathing. What happens is we develop this inefficient breathing pattern.
Our breath is supposed to balance our body, what we
call homeostasis, and when we get an inefficiency in how
we're breathing, that can cause a lot of different symptoms.
(01:32):
A common example of a dysfunctional breathing pattern is probably
one that many listening can resignate to is upper chest breathing.
That's not the primary muscles for breathing, your upper chest muscles,
So if we're only using those for the majority of
our breaths versus our diaphragm, the primary muscle, that can
develop into what we call biomechanical alterations. And actually, for
(01:56):
some people, they're getting tight in their chest, they're going
to the doctors, all of their medical tests are coming
back as normal, and actually it's not just anxiety. No
one's looking at how they're breathing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So the breathing's at the core of quite a lot.
How do you know if you've got dysfunctional breathing.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's a really great question and one I'm really passionate
about because we actually have to look at all of
the areas of your breathing pattern. So five key things
to look at to understand if you have a dysfunctional
breathing pattern or not. Would be five key areas of
your breathing pattern, which we can talk through. The first
one is if you're breathing into your upper chest more
(02:36):
than your diaphragm, and that links into one of the
second ones as well as signs of what we call
air hunger, so that feeling like you're not quite getting
a satisfying breath of air in and signs of air
hunger show up is taking bigger yawns or yawns or
size to try and get a good breath, or some
(02:57):
people take catch up breaths or their whole their breath
and then suddenly that makes sense, I think that's me. Yeah,
So we've got these signs of like bigger volume breaths,
and also many experienced ear hunger, which triggers them to
take more size than your ones. Another thing that we
often get overlooked when it comes to functional breathing patterns
(03:20):
is can you hear your breathing or not? So at rest,
the breath should be quiet. Yet we live in a
society that's often forcing our breathing exercises be very noisy
and exaggerated. So actually, for a lot of people, when
they're breathing, if their breathing's too noisy on the inhale,
the excel will both. That can trigger what we call
(03:42):
an efficient breathing and over breathing, breathing more than what
your body needs.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
And no one wants to be labeled to breather do they?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well absolutely. Before we go on to the last one
is that for many people it can shop quite socially,
where if they are feeling like they often need to
yun and or they're taking big side, people can go,
why are you on? You tie in it?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, you're disinterested in what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
A sigh, Yeah you're okay, Yeah, I'm fine, I'm just
trying to breathe. It's something I commonly hear. The next
one is then looking at your We talk a lot
about heart rate, right and your heart rate, and that's
really a really important physiological measure. But we need to
pay more attention to our breathing rate. So that's how
many breaths we're taking per minute. So another sign of
(04:28):
dysfunctional breathing is if we're taking more breaths per minute
than normal. So normal ranges ten to fourteen breaths per minute.
And if we're breathing in, you've got your inhale your exhale,
and if you're inhale to exhale is happening at a
faster rhythm, you're over breathing. A lot of people lose
the paws at the end of their breath out. The
(04:50):
power of the pause. I often say, so, if you're
listening now, chick in with yourself. As you're listening, do
you have at rest if you're just sitting around a
natural pause at the end of the breath out, many
of us just go straight back into our next breath.
It makes sense, and that can create inefficiencies in our
(05:13):
breathing and counterintuitively, that can actually increase the sensation of
air hunger and breathlessness even if your medical tests have
come back as normal. So those would be some of
the key things to look at. It's not just about
upper chest breathing, And I think that's probably an important
point from that dysfunctional breathing audit you can do with
yourself as it's not just about looking in the mirror
(05:34):
to see if you're an upper chest breathe it's also
looking a bit beyond that to say, can I hear
my breathing when I'm breathing in? Can I hear it
when I breathe out? If I can, it's a little sign.
Am I showing signs off your hunger? Ay? You union
all the time taking big breaths. Ah, that's a sign.
That's something I can work on. And then as my
breathing fast is my breathing slow? How do I know that? Well,
(05:56):
have a look at the rest. Do you have a
pause at the end of the breath out some.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Of you are.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
If you do have the dysfunctional breathing, how do you
then fix it? As a physiotherapist, Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So the key mechanism is we pick up these dysfunctional
breathing patterns. For some people, when that becomes a more
chronic and consistent it can develop to what we call
a breathing pattern disorder, which is the diagnostic tim we
use for the mechanisms of dysfunctional breathing patterns. So the
main treatment for breathing pattern disorder is what we call
(06:29):
breathing retraining. So that is about essentially restoring efficient and
physiologically balanced breathing pattern. Again, so is the term I
said at the start is we've developed an inefficient breathing
pattern and we're feeling a bit tired in our chest.
We're sometimes feeling a little bit dizzy. Some people can
feel quite panicky because they feel like they're not getting
(06:51):
enough air. So then breathing retraining is the treatment to
that because it's efficient breathing pattern and restore a breathing
pattern that works for your body. And we again live
in a society where we've got an influx of breathing
techniques that actually induce further over breathing, like, for example,
(07:13):
box breathing breathing and for four holding for four at
the top, breathing out for four, holding for for at
the bottom. That's a technique now that can actually make
a dysfunctional breathing pattern significantly worse and amplify someone symptoms.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So we told to box breathe when we want to
calm ourselves down, but it can be counterintuitive.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yes for this specific and we're told for people with
anxiety or panic or post COVID other conditions comorbidity, is
that you need to do box breathing as your main
breathing exercise, But those conditions have some of the highest
rates of dysfunctional breathing patterns. We know that those with
(07:59):
anxiety to forty percent of them from the literature have
dysfunctional breathing patterns, and then my research showed a bit
higher that for those where dysfunctional breathing pattern was mentioned,
they talked about it in the context of anxiety over
fifty percent of the time. So we're saying we should
be doing box breathing to improve your breathing, but actually
that's false if you've got a dysfunctional breathing pattern. If
(08:20):
they break that down, if I'm already breathing into my
chest and I'm breathing in for four seconds, often when
people do box breathing, they breathe quite noisy, So it's
already one of the things that we talked about at
the start. Don't need to breathe super noisy at rest.
That makes people dizzy. Some people they're getting now tight
in their chest in two three four, they're breathing too bag.
(08:41):
They don't need to do a big breath on top
of an already big breathing pattern.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
They need to learn to restore efficiency. And then we
get a little bit into the science of your breathing
pattern when we talk about your breath. Yes, your diaphragm.
It's primary pump of your breath, and we talked about
how that needs to be functioning poply as we breathe.
When we breathe in, the diaphragm expands. When we breathe out,
(09:10):
it relaxes. But that's just one of the primary functions.
Another function of breath is to balance oxygen and carbon
dioxide within our body. So a lot of people are
going to the emergency department the doctors because they feel
like they can't breathe and they feel like they're running
out of oxygen, but actually their oxygen levels are fine,
(09:33):
and it's actually the balance of carbon dioxide that starts
to change when it comes to your breath. And this
is really important with what we're just talking about when
it comes to box breathing. Is because i've mentioned the
term overbreathing quite a lot. And all that means is
you're breathing too much. And if I'm breathing in oxygen,
(09:54):
we're getting enough oxygen. We're good at breathing. We're breathing
too much, We're good at breathing a lot. It's often
what I say to my clients because they feel like
they're they need to breathe more, but I'm like, no,
you are breathing more. It's actually learning to breathe a
less makes you feel better and more. Unpack that. But
this carbon dark side is really important. This will probably
(10:14):
be one of the most sciencey parts of today, so
hang type for those listening, but it's really important. It
explains why you're feeling like you can't get a good
breath of fear, and it explains why sometimes you're feeling
a bit of brain fog, dizziness, even pins and needles
in around your lips sometimes fur or tingles and your fingertips,
(10:35):
or for those who are feeling a lot of onset
of panic, carbon darks I can play a role. If
you're blowing off too much carbon dark side with bigger,
faster breaths, it's going to lower within your blood base
and that's really important. Firstly, box breathing is going to
increase the chance of that happening because you're noisy breathing,
you're dumping out a lot of carbon dioxide. So for
(10:55):
many people, the people who are saying I've done box
breathing and it makes me feel worse, not only does
it make their chest type biomechanically because they upper chest breathing,
but it's also disrupting the biochemical balance of breathing. An
exercise that we say should make improve anxiety is actually
triggering dysfunctional breathing patterns. It's going to for a lot
of people spiral them into a panic attack because their
(11:17):
carbon dark side levels drop, and then that tightens blood
vessels in the body. It amps your nervous system into
flight and flight when carbon dark side levels get too low,
and then your breathing center, which detects carbon dark side,
it starts to become a little bit more sensitized to
(11:38):
carbon dark side. So basically we get these urges that
we need to breathe more.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So instead of the box breathing, what would you recommend
when you know, like I think about you know, last
night I was hosting the New Zealand Podcast Awards. So
when I go in instead of box breathing, what would
be another technique you could do?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So if you have been listening to some of these
signs of dysfunctional breathing, you're like, yeahbee, I resignate. The
first step is well following what I call like an
ABC framework for improving your breathing. So the first one
is the A, which is awareness. Being aware of your
breathing pattern is the first step I think we rush
(12:18):
into trying to fix things. So if you are in
your moment of your everyday life, like an instance before
you are presenting, we can all kind of do this together.
Just if you're driving, I would recommend coming back to
this part a little bit later. Two hands on the
wheel please, is awareness is we can place one hand
on the chest and then placing one hand on the belly.
(12:42):
I really encourage people during this to have a form
of visual feedback. So either you're in front of a
mirror or you're just gently looking down at your arms
and you're going to breathe in and out at your
own rhythm, and you're just noticing what hand is moving
more as you breathe. Having a look to see if
(13:04):
that top hand is moving, having a look to feel
do you need to take some of those bigger breaths.
Do you have this overwhelming urge to take a yawn
or a sigh or a catch up breath? Is it
slow or fast? Is there a pause at the end
of the breath out? And by having that awareness as
(13:28):
the first step, it can feel a bit uncomfortable. Many
people find when they stop and draw awareness to their breath,
they feel worse in their breathing. So a lot of
people actually trying to distract themselves from their breath because
they don't want to think about it because when they
think about it, it feels worse. Yes, So my biggest
piece of advice to you, the number A is actually
(13:49):
the A. Awareness is the first step, and if it
feels uncomfortable, that's very normal. That's actually a sign you're
going to benefit from the next step, which is B.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Back to we need to talk with Tony Street, okay, and.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What's B so B is breathing retraining. So that is
about restoring a balanced breathing pattern. Now you're probably wondering, well, yeah,
how do I do that? The two key things to
focus on is diaphromatic breathing. Now, we always recommend starting
breathing retraining lying down. So lying down, there are some
(14:29):
breathing positions we use to improve diaphragmatic breathing, So that
would be lying down. Bending your knees helps to just
soften your core a little bit, so there's less muscle guarding.
What can be really helpful when you're lying down is
what we call feedback will biofeedback where we place a
wee pack or a book. Actually it's one pasler on
(14:52):
the belly earlier this week, but you have feedback on
your belly. And as you're in this position lying down,
being something on your belly, you're breathing in and the
feedback connects you in to the diaphragm movement more.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yes, and that's the key to get the diaphragm.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Move moving first, Yeah, moving first, and off. We live
in a world of like breathing perfectionism, where we're trying
to breathe so rigidly. We're trying to breathe so three
sixty or we're just wanting to breathe into our nose
all the time. But I challenge that because actually your
breath should be functional, which means it adapts to what
you're doing. So lie down, bingjo knees, place something on
(15:32):
your belly, feel your belly moving. Some people find it
helpful to come into what I call the breathers reset position,
which is placing your hands above your heat. That can
help to switch off the upper chest muscles, which is
why when runners get to the end of the race,
what do we do? You lean forward? We place the
(15:53):
hands above your true Why do we do that? It's
because it optimizes the length tension relationship off your diaphragm.
Some people with ear hunger find they move their body
to try and get the good breath and they're like,
why am I doing that heavy? But it's because they're
trying to position their diaphragm in a place to work well.
And I often say try less hard right when it
(16:14):
comes to the diaphragm breathing. So start lying down, hands
above head if that's helpful, and just have a lot down.
Notice that it's moving, and this is important this part
that it's going to feel uncomfortable at first, because if
you've had a habit of upper chest breathing for years,
your muscles of your diaphragm and also your breathing center
(16:34):
that controls the century connections off the muscle has to
learn that. So it feels quite jumpy. So often people
either stop at eight because they're like, this feels uncomfortable.
I don't want to make it worse, So make key
piece of advice for number A awareness is be curious.
Take one step forward towards improving your breathing pan and
that's going to move you to number B. Now when
(16:56):
you're at B, you're starting your breathing your training. My
biggest piece of it vice is taking one step towards
improving your breathing. Start with difromatic breathing, lying down, and
if it feels uncomfortable, that's normal. It gets better with practice.
It's like anything. We can then progress your breathing retraining.
There are so many different areas of breathing pattern right,
so the next thing is just slowing it down. I
(17:21):
like to use counting as a guide, not a role,
and that's probably different to what people see online as
it's going you must breathe in for four out. For sex,
people just forcing the breathing. They're like, this isn't calming me,
So slow your breath down A nice way to a
nice count that gets you within a normal breathing rate.
Rhythm is just going in two three, your belly rising
(17:46):
up and then out slowly two three, four, not out
forced two through four. You don't need to push the
air out. Imagine your exhale is like you've slowed down
a video. The videos now on zero point five speed.
You don't actually need to make it longer and push
the air out, You just need to move it slower.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
This often bottlenecks people because their breathing center within more
of the central respiratory breathing areas is used to detecting
a faster rhythm. So when we slow it down, people
can actually notice an increase in the air hunger. So
many people often say to me, I'm doing it, but
it feels like it's not helping, it's making it worse.
(18:28):
And my biggest piece of advice to you, if you've
listening and maybe you've tried this while listening to me now,
or you're going to try it later as aar hunger
in this context as your friend, it's not a threat.
If you learn to sit with the air hunger, something
on your belly, slow it down, then that builds your
tolerance to slow breathing builds your tolerance to normal carbon
(18:51):
dark side levels and then before you know it, it
becomes relaxing and meditative nake.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We need to talk podcast. A pre said on your
iHeart app, just step and never miss an episode.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
When you're on to C and what is C?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, and we can't forget the nose as well on B.
So nasal breathing starts off okay, but then C is
contextual integration. This one's one of my favorites because everyone
walks a different life, so we need to contextually integrate
your breathing retraining into your breday life. So firstly, we
look at positions. As humans, you don't lie down all day,
(19:28):
so we shouldn't be doing our breathing exercises lying down
all day. Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It'd be quite nice if we could just lie down
all day, but it's not reality, right.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, We've got dynamic lives and we've got small pockets
of time, So how can we utilize those pockets of
time to optimize our breath in the best way. So
when we are sitting, it's about first awareness in that position.
So you go back to your ABC, but you're doing
it in a different position because you're integrating it, then
you're coming into your breathing retraining again, it's a stepping stone.
(19:56):
We've got to practice be first lying down breathing retraining
before you integrate your diaphragmatic breathing into setting. It can
feel a bit more challenging. It takes practice. It's a skill.
Is this a skill? A lot of us singers or
people in talking professions reach out because there's this secondary
function of breathing, which is the integration of your breath
(20:18):
with vocal control and phonation and how we utilize movement
of breath for speech. But when we're speaking, those who
have high talking roles often are more susceptible to overbreathing
and the symptoms of I'm talking and like I'm running
out of air right now. I'm sure we've all a
lot of people in it talking roles have probably felt
(20:38):
that it's some occasion. So then the context you integration
part is that's your context as you talk a lot,
and that's okay, so do I. So how can we
integrate using your diaphragm for when you're speaking a bit more,
taking moments where instead of going and taking a big
(21:00):
di in we person lip breath out through your mouth
like you're blowing out a candle. Quietly drop the shoulders.
You have little breathing efficiency, resets integration Contextually, A lot
of the timer is into exercise as wow. Some people
with dysfunctional breathing find that movement helps, but some people
(21:23):
start to avoid exercise because they don't want their symptoms
to get worse. So a lot of it's confidence to
integrating into exercise, not avoiding things, and then the confidence
comes with that. With that, the talking and the exercise
are probably two main ways we integrate it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
But it's gosh's so many different things that we do
in life, right, like when we're on our phones and
we're on technology, how can we take a little moment
integrate it in with your relaxation response, right, drop the shoulders,
deep body muscle relaxing. We don't want to develop breathing
rigidity where we're just hyper fixating on the breath. So
(22:05):
the sea part is really important because you're integrating your
breathing retraining with other things.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, petition and routine. Have that you during COVID recognize
that your breathing wasn't right?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Tell us about your personal story.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yes, and when I think of my personal story, I
have now connected a lot of the dots together that
I didn't used to.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And on reflection, it actually all started in childhood, where
I would have been around five sacks and I would
always say to my mom, I've got bad breathing. I
can't get good breaths, and then my mum last I
would then Carmen should stroke my head until I went
to bed, and then off I went tonight. That was
(22:54):
my first sign though, of dysfunctional breathing. It's not just
an adult thing. It's actually quite highly pred in kids
in youth and in kids and for the parents listening.
If your child is saying, oh, my breath isn't feeling
deep enough, not getting good breaths, it's a sign, and
(23:15):
there's respiratory physios here to help with that. It's important
to go to the doctor too, just to make sure
there's nothing else going on underlying. But that's a really
important sign, the most common thing I hear in youth.
So just holding space for the parents listening for your kids.
Be nice for that to be passed down more because
often people to say, oh, you're just anxious. Yes, well,
(23:38):
we don't want to start that narrative when they are ten, but.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It could be pretty simply fixed as well.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And then kids absolutely, because I haven't had the habits
for as long, they do so so well. So that
was my first whisper. Then I got another whisper through
university where I had chronic neck pain and it was
always better when I was lying down. And if we
circle back to the first fee breathing retraining, lying down
(24:06):
easier to use your diaphragm. Right i'd stand up, it
would get worse. On reflection, it was because I was
using my upper chest to breathe, so the muscles and
my neck were getting so tight. I hadn't connected into
my breathing yet because I hadn't had the ear hunger part,
which I'll go into, but I reckonize moster, I don't
have nick thing now. As soon as I started retraining
(24:28):
my breathing matter, it took the pressure off. It's a
pressure system too. My diaphragm is expanding lower three sixty.
These muscles aren't switching on your upper neck. Muscles are
made out of more what we call type two muscle fibers,
which are more easily fatigable. They're not made for endurance.
Think if your diaphrame is a marathon runner, so it's
(24:50):
wants to work all the time. And then COVID came around,
So that was a that was really hard. So after COVID,
I didn't feel it if first, but a couple of
weeks after I just I could not breathe. I could
not breathe.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
It was it from getting COVID.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Post COVID, Yeah, and we know the prevalence of tsunk
a green panatle now we do, right, but at the
time it had just come and we don't get taught
this at undergrad as physios, right, so this requires extra training,
is a physio. So it felt like I was sitting
in a hot sauna and I'd been in there for
(25:30):
half an hour and someone's talking to me. And for
those who are saunas you'll know, Yeah, that's an uncomfortable feeling.
And that's how it would feel twenty pretty much for
most of the day. And it was really hard. You
couldn't get good breaths, and I was a yawner. I'd
chronically yawn my chest. It felt like an elephant was
(25:52):
sitting on my chest and the biggest thing here was
it wasn't when I was anxious. So I know my
body pretty well and I was into a lot of
holistic practices at that time. Still, so to then go
to the doctor, my medical tests to come back as
normal and then just say, you sure it's not just anxiety.
No it's not. So I'm going to get to the
(26:15):
boot of it. And I'm so grateful I managed to
connect to an incredible, incredible respiratory physio therapist shout out
to Becky who supported me with my breathing retraining journey,
and then that just led from one thing to starting
up a couple of respiratory physio therapy services myself, and
then that birthed into the breathing physio And I'm grateful
(26:37):
that things are much better now. And I think having
had lived experience with breathing pattern disorder, and quite a
severe one, it allows me to, I think, guide people through,
particularly those stages of the journey that you know, I
don't think I talked about, which is like breathing gratredity.
Like you know, I learned how to breathe properly, but
(26:59):
I had to unlo learn how to breathe properly and
not constantly monitor the good way of breathing.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah, so how has it from sorting it out? How
has it changed your life massively? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So, well, the first one is just like muscle tension.
I had so much draw, chronic to daw tension, chronic
semitic nick pain and tightness. I'd also get the stitch
a lot and tightness around my ribcage. It's really common
as well. If you're getting that, that's very typical your diaphragm.
Just to lose a strength that was massive. And the
(27:33):
biggest one was ear hunger. Like I was in a
I'm in a talking based profession and I love to
use my voice, and after every single client, I'd have
to lie down and just do my breathing retraining and
now I can talk. And whenever i'm talking like this,
I think these are the moment. It's like if I'm presenting,
I'm doing webinars, talking to clients, I have moments quite
(27:57):
often where I'm like, I'm so grateful, it's much better,
and I feel so privileged to be able to support
people through the obviously exercise, but I think it's nice
also because there are when the whispers they call them whispers.
When the whispers do come up, when the aar hunger
whispers do come up for me, or the chest tightness,
It's something that I see as a part of my
(28:19):
breathing well being versus like something's wrong. And I feel
very passionate about guiding people to get to that stage
of kind of neutrality with the whispers.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
So what would be your advice?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Then?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Just finally, if you had to say to anyone listening
to the say, oh, yes, I recognize those symptoms. I
think I've got ear hunger, or I might potentially have
respits or your.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Disorder, or they've got the stiffy symptoms. What would be
their first course of action? Where would you what would
you get them to do?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Well, firstly, be proud of yourself that you've probably done
a from the ABC, which is awareness. Yeah, and then
the next stage would be B B be you need
to start breathing retraining and you don't need to do
that alone. You can do that through self guided ways,
through self guided video format. I've got quite a few
of those. But also, you know, respiratory physiotherapists, we're here
(29:11):
to help. It's our favorite thing to do is support
people to retrain their breathing pattern. It's definitely something you
don't need to stick out and just do yourself. I
think that would be my biggest piece of advice. And also,
you're not going crazy, it's not all in your head.
And it does get better. Does it feel challenging at first? Yes?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
But is that normal?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yes? And doesn't get so much better? And does your
breath start to give you superpowers? My breath gives me superpowers? Now,
absolutely it does. But as I often say to people,
just take one step, like, what's one step you can
take towards improving how your breathing. The one step might
be diaphragmatic breathing like we've talked about. One step might
(29:52):
be reaching out and booking an appointment. The one step
might be nose breathing for even thirty seconds if you're
a chronic mouth breather. Just start, what's one step you
can take? And it's going to change your health and
wellness in ways you won't even realize. So just start
with one step.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Abby. That is so helpful.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Thank you so much today and all the best with
the rest of your business. And I'm sure again if
you want to hear more, you can follow Abby on
Instagram at the Underscore Breathing Physio.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Thank you so much, Tony, thanks for listening to We
need to talk.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Contact us on Instagram and we need to talk with
Tony Street or email. We need to talk at Costonline,
dot co dot nz
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