May 3, 2026 • 25 mins
WARNING: This episode contains mentions of eating disorders. A list of resources is available at the bottom of the description if you or someone you know needs help
Rosa and Margo Flanagan have both dealt with their own struggles with disordered eating and have had to work together to create a healthy relationship with food. With the goal of making healthy food easy and delicious, the sisters created Two Raw Sisters to share their vege-first mentality when it comes to cooking and create yummy recipes that anyone can cook with whatever they have in their kitchen.
In this episode Toni, Rosa and Margo discuss how food used to make them feel sad, guilty and frustrated, how they used their competitive relationship to improve their eating habits, and how they use Two Raw Sisters to simplify the complicated subject of eating healthy.
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• Suicide Crisis Helpline: Call 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO) (available 24/7)
• Youth services: (06) 3555 906
• Youthline: Call 0800 376 633 or text 234
• What’s Up: Call 0800 942 8787 (11am to 11pm) or webchat (11am to 10.30pm)
• Depression helpline: Call 0800 111 757 or text 4202 (available 24/7)
• Helpline: Need to talk? Call or text 1737
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We Need to Talk Tony Street's lifestyle and wellness podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, welcome to We Need to Talk the podcast. Now,
for some of us, food is there simply as fuel.
It gives us energy and allows us to function at
our best. But for most people, me included, there's an
emotional relationship with food and it is so much more
than just fuel. It's complicated and we can have at
times a love hate relationship with it. To talk about
(00:30):
this connection today, we have the two Raw Sisters in
Rosa and Margo Flanagan, who buy their own admissions, say
that food has made them in the past feel guilty, confused, sad, low,
low in energy, and it has led both of them
to suffer at times from eating disorders alongside other health conditions.
These days, the sisters are both in great places. They've
(00:52):
produced several top selling cookbooks, they have their own app,
they run cooking classes, and you're currently Ladies on tour
going around the country talking to people. You've got a
huge following and it's been amazing to witness that over
the last few years. But I want to know about
your connection with food that led you to today. So
(01:14):
perhaps Rosa, if you start with your journey yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
So I was an elite athlete for about eight years,
and over my time as an athlete, I got very
obsessed with my results and my training, which then led
to an eating disorder. It wasn't necessarily led on by
me being obsessed with food. It was more the training side,
the body image side of things, which then led me
(01:39):
to restrict on what I was eating. And for me,
at the start, I was really oblivious to the whole situation.
In my eyes, I thought I was doing a good
thing for myself and my running and my body image
and being this ideal runner that you know, all my
fans and supporters looked up to.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And it got to.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
A point where my doc just started noticing the you know,
the massive changes in my body shape and size, and
I got diagnosed with a condition called READS, which stands
for relative energy deficiency in sports.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So it's a.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Combination of amin area so I didn't get my period
until I was twenty one, low bone density, so I
had the bones of a seventy year old at about
twenty years old. And then I just had low energy availability,
which is quite similar to chronic fatigue, but probably not
as severe as chronic fatigue. So I was in a
really deep dark spot in terms of I was going
(02:34):
really well with my running, but I literally had no energy.
All I put my energy towards was my running and
my training, and I cut out everything else. Family, time,
time with friends, school, all those things. And I mean,
at the age of nineteen to twenty one, you know
there you're the fun, exciting times where you meet people
(02:54):
and you you know, go out with your friends. But
I completely missed that whole period of my life because
us obsessed around what I was eating and my running
pretty much. And I don't really know the like the
moment where I said to myself, I have to make
a change. I think it was just a combination of
(03:15):
my doctors telling me, you know, the current situation I
was in. I did go through a few doctors because
I think it's really important to have that solid relationship
with that person who is trying to tell you your
current situation and where it could potentially lead to in
a negative but then also if you flip the situation
(03:35):
that you're in, where it could lead to in a
positive way as well. So I really trusted the person
that I was working with, which kind of made me
flick a switch and be like, well, if I keep
going the way that I'm going, I'm going to have
some quite severe side effects that are going to affect
me immediately and then in the long term as well,
like having kids and all those things.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So, yeah, what was it like for you, Margo watching
this happen with Rose? Did you recognize that she had
an issue?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah? For sure.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
I think it was really hard to watch Mum because
I know mum obviously mum and daughter relationships. Seeing Rosa
go through that was really really hard for Mum. And
I was going through my own issues at the time
as well, so I kind of wasn't really seeing Rosa,
but then I was. We were very competitive and we
(04:24):
really egged each other on in quite a negative way
that really excelled our health issues. I would say, would
you agree with that? Yeah, very very stubborn. This one
still is, but got a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
No, you were.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Extremely dedicated to your sport and that was all.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You had time for.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So what were you competing over then? Because it was
sport your thing too.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Yeah, sport was my thing, but Rosa isn't natural at sport,
and I was good at sport, but I was always
kind of on the reserve table for the Canterbury team,
or you know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Was never in the team.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Rosa was always there.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And I think with me with my chronic fatigue, that
was kind of lingering in the background, and I always
got injured and you know, I had stress fractures and
tore my coat off the tendon and all these things
that stopped me from doing my sport.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I think a big thing as well was the body
image side of things that you looked at me as
your older sister, and I couldn't be smaller than you,
and you couldn't have bigger boobs than me and be
more developed as a female than me. You know, it
was something that you would compare to all the time.
Like I'd be out running and training and then I
would restrict myself and only eat this much for breakfast.
(05:37):
And then you think, oh, well, I've done less than her,
so I shouldn't be eating as much as her. I
will eat less than that, and I should go out
for an hour walk to compensate for it.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
You know, like it's just all these things going in
your head.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And I think a lot of people do that, whether
they're going through you know, something as severe as an
eating disorder or have chronic fatigue. You know, you look
on social media and you look at this person who's
just been in run a twenty k, you know run,
and you think, oh, gosh, I haven't done anything today.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Maybe yeah, I should be doing that.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Or look, they've just had a really healthy lunch and
I just went and got takeaways.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Like now I feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And it's really hard, I think competition wise, because I
mean it's well documented when you have a bit of competition,
particularly amongst siblings, it can be really positive. And some
of our greatest athletes have had, you know, a younger
brother or sister sort of nipping at their heels and
that has helped them achieve greatness. So that I feel like,
and look at you to it very successful sitting here.
(06:33):
So no doubt that competition has probably helped in some
ways and then also ended in other ways. Would you agree, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
I think now as we've grown older, it's the competition
is in a much more positive way, whereas back then
it was Rosa's a smaller build than me. I'm taller,
you know, more musclier than Rosa. No, you're you have
to prove that you're you know, a slightly bigger build
than Rosa, and it just goes to show that every
everybody's body is so different. Rose is an active relaxer.
(07:03):
I have to actually sleep to relax. And it's not
like Rose was saying, when you see all these things
on social media of people doing this and that, it's
just trying not to let that get to you because
everybody is so different.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Follow on Instagram and we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Rosie, your situation reminds me so much. I interviewed a
guy called Harry Everel for that We Need to Talk podcast,
and he actually was a runner and his way of
controlling his situation was to restrict his food, and he
felt like the lighter he got, the quicker he got,
and it actually developed into full blown anorexia and he
was at his worst in a psychiatric hospital. He's completely
(07:44):
recovered now, which is amazing. But I'm quite interested in
the process of recovery because sometimes when you get very
deep in restriction of food, because you have to eat
every day to stay alive, it's really hard. It's like
an alcoholic cuts alcohol out of their life to recover.
If you've got a food issue, you can't do that.
So how did what did it look like when you're
(08:05):
in the sort of throes of your illness, and how
did you flip it?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I think for me, I never had that person to
talk to who I could relate to and who had
been through a very similar situation that I'd been through
and had come out the other side and been like,
you know, I understand your thoughts and your feelings. I
understand that you want to be a really good runner,
and I understand that there's a particular.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Image that you want to be.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
But then also, this is what's happening to your body,
and these are the consequences that can then lead on
to that. But I've you know, this person's telling me
that they've flipped this and this is where they are at,
and this is where their mental health is now at.
So I never had that person to sit down and
have that one on one with And that's been one
big thing that I've wanted to take away from this
(08:50):
experience and this journey that I've been through, is be
that individual that people feel like they can come and
talk to. I think in terms of recovery as well,
that you ever get over it, like it's something that's
always there, but you just learn to manage your thoughts
that come through. I still get thoughts through like today,
(09:10):
and it's been i know, six or seven years, but
I know when they come through, and I know how
to manage them from there.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
What do you mean by thoughts?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
So like you could be sitting down and a meal
comes to you and it might be like really big
or have be really fatty, lots of butter or something,
but you know, deep down I love those types of food,
and in my head I'm saying, oh, you don't need that,
and then you know, flipping being aware that that thought's
coming through, and then flipping that thought around to me
(09:39):
like no, I love this type of food.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Everything and moderation.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It's not going to damage anything inside of me, you know,
like just sit down and enjoy it and enjoy the
people that you're with. Or it's that whole situation if
you see someone on social media going out for a
run and you think, oh, well, I've only been for
a walk today, like I should have.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Gone for a run.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
You know it's been like no, well, actually I felt
really tired when I woke up this Morning's okay, it's okay.
I read something once it was like, you give those
thoughts ten seconds. It's like you recognize it doesn't matter.
Is it going to do me good right now? Is
it going to do me harm?
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Right now? It does me harm, you swipe that thought
right out of your head, and if you do that
within ten seconds, then you kind of like forget about it.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
But yeah, so it's a long journey. It doesn't just
happen overnight. And there's relapses that will very likely happen
that happened to me where you know, I'd be on
a really good pathway and then all of a sudden,
I'd go back to swear one again. But I think
it's that talking for me was really big, and that
being aware of my thoughts and creating actions around what
to do when those thoughts come through my head and
(10:44):
writing down things like what makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Like I never did anything that made me happy.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It was always well, what is what are other people
going to think about my you know, the time that
I run this weekend or how many k's I ran
this week, or what my body image looks like or
you know, like all those things. So it was having
a list of things reminding myself like what makes me happy?
What can I do to fill my cup up.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Have you had conversations with your parents about this, because
it's quite hard when and I know you've got loving
parents and yet you still struggle at times, and that
must have been quite hard for them to take as
parents who I'm assuming really wanted to be the best
they could be and then to see your child stuffer
like that.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, I think it's hard when it's someone you know
so well, like your parents, and who know you so
well sometimes and for me, this is what happened. It
didn't work them telling me what to do because I
just didn't listen to them, and I thought that they
didn't understand the situation I was in. You don't know
how I feel. You don't know what it's like to
be an elite runner. You don't know what it's like
(11:48):
to struggle with food and to have a negative mindset
around it. So talking to other people such as an
endocrinologist who I worked really closely with all my sports stoctor,
or you know someone as I'm saying, who's been through
a similar situation.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's just out of your.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Personal life that you're in all the time, and it's
for me, it was more of a trigger for me
to get out of the situation that I was in.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
You kind of had to hit rock bottom really to
realize what you were doing.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's pretty extreme not having a period for all
those years, you.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Know, but I didn't realize it was that was the
last thing on my mind.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I didn't even know, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Why we had periods, because it was just something I
was never interested in. I was always focused on my running,
whereas you know, Mum would have been trying to tell me,
these are why you have periods, These are the importance.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Of having them and getting them.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
But yeah, I'm just falling on yeah. Yeah, And what
about you, Mago. So while this was going on with Rosa,
tell me about the issues you were having.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah. So I went on a World Challenge trip to
Costrika when I was sixteen. So it's like a World
Vision trip where we went over four weeks and helped
community and things like that. And I will never forget
I looked in the mirror on the last day we
were there and thought, because we had no mirrors we
were in you know, the middle of nowhere, and thought,
(13:11):
oh my god, I have lost so much weight. I
didn't know why. I didn't understand why and I got home.
You know that feeling when you've unintentionally lost weight because
you're sick, and a lot of people are saying, oh gosh,
like either you look good or oh you've lost a
lot of weight, and it's like, oh yeah, I know,
like far out, I don't want to know about it.
(13:33):
Kind of quite opposite situation. I never really recovered from
my jet leg. I was always really tired, but then
constantly training with Rosa because again I felt roses run today.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I have to run today.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I have to eat exactly what Rosa eats today. And
I was probably sleeping fourteen fifteen hours a day and
with chronic fatigue. I didn't know I was diagnosed at
this point, but it took me six months to get diagnosed.
And I, from what I understand, that's quite a quick diagnosis,
like there's nothing to really diagnose it. And you know,
(14:05):
like one day, I hope it's like a COVID test
where it's a negative or a positive, because every test
you do comes back normal. I was in hospital a
couple of times and everything comes back normal, and you
kind of think you're going crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And I think a lot of people don't get listened
to with the symptoms for what I heard, because every
second person you say, a good sleep.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Yeah, Well, if you ask someone how are you, a
lot of people say I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm fatigued.
You know, it's it's very common words that get thrown around.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So how did you get diagnosed?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I can't recall how we got onto the specialist, but yeah,
it was six months and I was kind of at
like breaking point of nothing's wrong, just get you know,
get your shit together, and we went to this children
specialist and I finally walked out with the diagnosis of
chronic fatigue syndrome. And from that point, I think it's
that relief of being diagnosed with something, and I just
(15:00):
absolutely hit a wall. And I was pretty much bed
ridden for two years, so I'd walk fifty meters and
just be absolutely exhausted for the rest of the day.
And how old were you at this point? I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
I think the hard thing as well with chronic fatigue
is no one can see it.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, you know, it's an invisible illness, like someone with
a broken arm. You can see they've got a broken arm.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
How do you get it? Is there a reason why
you get it or is it luck of the doraor.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
It can be Yeah, it can be brought on from
lots of different things. From my understanding, again, I'm not
one hundred percent clued up on this stuff. But for me,
they think I had glandular fever kind of in my
system a few months before I went overseas, and they
think I just overdid it. Like if you have glande
and you don't rest, then you can't get chronic fatigue.
(15:50):
But a lot of people get it virally, which they
also think I caught something overseas. But yeah, it's a
very kind of unknown illness which makes it really difficult.
And because I was yeah, twelve and thirteen, you know,
party years, I just kind of fell off the face
of the earth with a lot of my friends.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And what did you miss? Because that is it's you know,
leadership opportunities, it's balls, it's trips away for sports teams,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Yeah, So again with my sport, you know, I played
hockey to athletics, had to stop all of that. And
I feel like chronic fatigue is getting diagnosed more and
more now, which is amazing. You hear a lot about
it more. But back then it wasn't really talked about,
so a lot of people again didn't understand, like, oh,
I'm tired too. Well, I'm fatigued too. I've got brain
(16:36):
fog too. But it's just it's so different. The way
I describe it is like having COVID but ten times worse.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, back to we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So you're like that for two years? Yeah, how do
you fix chronic fatigue? How do you get treated for it?
Speaker 5 (16:55):
So I was, so I was really bad for two years.
I was bedridden for two years. And then it was
it still was like with me quite a lot. I
could do half days at school or you know, I
really had to pick.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
And choose what I did.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
But I had five years of health professionals here telling
me there was nothing I could do. It was just
a rest and get over its situation, because again there's
not much. There's not a magic pearl to take for
chronic fatigue. And then Rose and I we went over
to the States. Rosa was competing and I'd finished school
and didn't really know what I wanted to do. So
we went over to the States for a few months,
(17:28):
and you know how you just come across people randomly
and they like really kind of fit what you need
at that point. And she said, have you read this
book called The Body Ecology Diet? And I said, no,
I haven't. I always get reluctant recommending this book because
we don't do diets. It's like a medical treatment for
chronic fatigue, let's say, And it's where you cut out
(17:50):
all forms of carbs and sugars. So we essentially found
out that I had a big fungal overgrowth in my stomach.
So it was feeding off carbs and sugars, which was
what I was craving. It was taking all of my energy.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
How did you find out that you had the bungle overgrowth?
Speaker 5 (18:05):
This book is specifically for chronic fatigue or gut health yep.
So I mean read it as you will everybody to themselves.
But I was kind of at a point there where
I was like, I'm going to try anything I can,
and I did this diet and within three months my
chronic fatigu had pretty much disappeared.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Wow. Yeah, so you cut carbohydrates and sugars.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
So it's a very intensive kind of thing, again, like
a medical treatment. They recommend you don't do anything because
you're not eating properly, yes, and yeah, so cut out
all forms of carbs and sugars. It was like really
strict for a month, and then you could have pseudo
grains which is like millet and buckwheat and things for
the last two months, but no fruits like you have
(18:52):
berries and things like that. But yeah, it was It
was amazing. And that's where my passion for food came
in because I was never into food, but I think
think from then I realized the importance of fruits and
vegetables and just eating good ingredients. It wasn't expensive specialists,
it wasn't expensive treatments, it was simply just eating.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, incredible backstories for both of you. At what point,
so that sparked your passion for food? But at what
point did you decide let's make this into a business.
And you know, we were best friends again when you
stopped competing.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
It got to we were over in the States and
Margot was doing all this things with her chronic fatigue
and doing that diet that she's just been talking about.
I was still competing at that time, but I had
been through I was on my road to recovery, and
we got home and we started doing a workshop where
we did workshops based out of mum and Dad's kitchen,
(19:50):
educating people on how to cook with seasonal produce and
how to cook in a cost effective way. And that's
where our passion kind of grew. I did a degree
and human nutrition, so that was a big part of
my recovery as well. I was actually learning about the
importance of food and why we need food and why
to fuel our bodies with the right foods as well.
So it kind of literally just grew from there. And
(20:13):
I mean, Margot and I we're very big at getting
ourselves out there and talking to people and meeting new people.
And I think that's been a big part of the
growth of our brand to or sisters, is that. And yeah,
I think where we've hit a really good niche. It
was a niche at the beginning when we started, but
now it is very mainstream. But we've still got quite
(20:33):
a unique brand and the fact that we welcome all
leaders into our using our cookbooks, using our apps. We
you know, cover diet trees, we cover all sorts of
things seasonality, whether you're based in the USA, whether you're
based in New Zealand like anyone can use our recipes
at any time.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It's having that plant forward mentality. We aren't telling you
to cut out anything, which when we first started a
lot of that diets and diets are still a big thing,
but for us, diets not in our okay, because we
believe in everything in moderation. But if you plant ford
and you focus mostly on those fruits and vegetables, then
(21:12):
you're improving your gut health and add me on the side,
or have that croissant that on the Saturday at the market,
you know. But having that plant forward mindset I think
was really refreshing for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So people listening to this that might want to give
their diet, I won't say diet, the healthy lifestyle and overhaul.
What would be the first step? I know you're saying
plant forward, What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What could people do right now to try and get
themselves in a better space.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
A lot of people the first thing they think about
when they think of what's for dinner is oh, we've
got chicken in the freezer, We've got steak in the fridge,
or might have salmon tonight. Whereas we like to challenge
people's perceptions and get them to start with the plants first,
So the fruits and vegetables. What have I got in
my fridge right now, or what's check keep at the
produce store, cou I've got a pump and I'm going
(22:02):
to make a salad based around that, and then we
may have some chicken on the side. So it's kind
of flipping that mindset around how you start a meal
and go to the fridge or pantry first and see
what you have and make something yummy that's full of textures.
And I think when people start with the meat, they
tend to go with a boring surfry because the vegie's
the last minute, boring side thing, Whereas when you put
(22:24):
your energy or your thought process into the vegetable first,
you tend to create something a lot more exciting.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I think as well, Like you know, everyone's working, everyone's busy,
everyone's time poor, and that's the main excuse of not
eating a healthy life or not having a healthy lifestyle.
I don't have time for exercise, I don't have time
to prepare food, healthy nutritious food, or so I gone
by my lunch. So we're really big on meal prepping.
So on a Sunday or whatever day works for you,
(22:51):
whether it's a Monday afternoon or a Tuesday morning, whatever, Like,
make a big batch of your breakfast and then you've
got it sorted for the whole week. Make a salad
for your lunch, or a curry or a soup, and
then you can just reheat it when you're at work
and a snack if you want to, as well as
make it, put it in your freezer and then you
don't have to think about it again.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
We call it being intelligently lazy.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
It's a great idea. Food prepping for food is everything. Yeah,
and I be controlled, and.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I always say if it's you know, if something's a
priority for you, you will make the time to do it.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
We've timed ourselves many weekends in a row. Forty five
minutes for breakfast, a lunch, and a snack on a
Sunday for the week.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's all it takes. Forty five Yep. Pretty good. Your
next cookbook, which you are working away on, due to
be released around September, just in time for Christmas. What
is this next book? And where did the enspo come from?
Speaker 5 (23:47):
We're so excited for this book. Fifth book. It's called
more Salad. So second sequel on from Salad.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I've got Salad the book and it's great, by the way,
they genuinely love it.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
You'll love this one even more.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So, what is more of the salad that I get expressed?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Just more new salads.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
No, we've got a really good dessert section in there
as well, but it's just this. Yeah, well, salad was
such a success and everyone loved that whole idea of
as Mike was saying, starting your meal with your plants,
and that's just a really easy way to do that
through salads. And you can still have salads and winter
just by using you know, winter produce like your root
view cheese and silver beate and kale and all those things.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But it's yeah, it's just salads.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
It's a workshop on a page. So we've taken it
a step further for you because we always encourage people
to use a recipe as a guideline and use what's
in season, use what you have at home, like rosas
just said. So there's a swap on each recipe, so
ingredients swaps. There's a top tip on every recipe, like
freeze your ginger because it's much easier to grate and
(24:51):
then there's a delicious with so a salad it goes
well within the book, and then.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
A protein amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, guys, I can't wait to see any book. I
love looking at them as well. They always sit on
my menu stand because they were always so pretty. And
thank you for sharing so much about your backstory. I
love the fact that you are friends again. It's kind
of refreshing to have two sisters say, you know, we
didn't always see eye to eye, because quite often in
(25:19):
a PR exercise you'll be like, oh, we're such great friends.
We always have been. So thanks for being so honest
and sharing your stories today.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Well, we hope that it can inspire some others who
are going through the same thing, you know, like Rosa
was saying, we open books and we just want to
share our stories and help motivate and inspire others.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Thanks for listening till we need to talk, contact us
on Instagram and we need to talk with Tony Street
or email. We need to talk at cost online, dot co,
dot in z
We Need to Talk Tony Street's lifestyle and wellness podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, welcome to We Need to Talk the podcast. Now,
for some of us, food is there simply as fuel.
It gives us energy and allows us to function at
our best. But for most people, me included, there's an
emotional relationship with food and it is so much more
than just fuel. It's complicated and we can have at
times a love hate relationship with it. To talk about
(00:30):
this connection today, we have the two Raw Sisters in
Rosa and Margo Flanagan, who buy their own admissions, say
that food has made them in the past feel guilty, confused, sad, low,
low in energy, and it has led both of them
to suffer at times from eating disorders alongside other health conditions.
These days, the sisters are both in great places. They've
(00:52):
produced several top selling cookbooks, they have their own app,
they run cooking classes, and you're currently Ladies on tour
going around the country talking to people. You've got a
huge following and it's been amazing to witness that over
the last few years. But I want to know about
your connection with food that led you to today. So
(01:14):
perhaps Rosa, if you start with your journey yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
So I was an elite athlete for about eight years,
and over my time as an athlete, I got very
obsessed with my results and my training, which then led
to an eating disorder. It wasn't necessarily led on by
me being obsessed with food. It was more the training side,
the body image side of things, which then led me
(01:39):
to restrict on what I was eating. And for me,
at the start, I was really oblivious to the whole situation.
In my eyes, I thought I was doing a good
thing for myself and my running and my body image
and being this ideal runner that you know, all my
fans and supporters looked up to.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And it got to.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
A point where my doc just started noticing the you know,
the massive changes in my body shape and size, and
I got diagnosed with a condition called READS, which stands
for relative energy deficiency in sports.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So it's a.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Combination of amin area so I didn't get my period
until I was twenty one, low bone density, so I
had the bones of a seventy year old at about
twenty years old. And then I just had low energy availability,
which is quite similar to chronic fatigue, but probably not
as severe as chronic fatigue. So I was in a
really deep dark spot in terms of I was going
(02:34):
really well with my running, but I literally had no energy.
All I put my energy towards was my running and
my training, and I cut out everything else. Family, time,
time with friends, school, all those things. And I mean,
at the age of nineteen to twenty one, you know
there you're the fun, exciting times where you meet people
(02:54):
and you you know, go out with your friends. But
I completely missed that whole period of my life because
us obsessed around what I was eating and my running
pretty much. And I don't really know the like the
moment where I said to myself, I have to make
a change. I think it was just a combination of
(03:15):
my doctors telling me, you know, the current situation I
was in. I did go through a few doctors because
I think it's really important to have that solid relationship
with that person who is trying to tell you your
current situation and where it could potentially lead to in
a negative but then also if you flip the situation
(03:35):
that you're in, where it could lead to in a
positive way as well. So I really trusted the person
that I was working with, which kind of made me
flick a switch and be like, well, if I keep
going the way that I'm going, I'm going to have
some quite severe side effects that are going to affect
me immediately and then in the long term as well,
like having kids and all those things.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So, yeah, what was it like for you, Margo watching
this happen with Rose? Did you recognize that she had
an issue?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah? For sure.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
I think it was really hard to watch Mum because
I know mum obviously mum and daughter relationships. Seeing Rosa
go through that was really really hard for Mum. And
I was going through my own issues at the time
as well, so I kind of wasn't really seeing Rosa,
but then I was. We were very competitive and we
(04:24):
really egged each other on in quite a negative way
that really excelled our health issues. I would say, would
you agree with that? Yeah, very very stubborn. This one
still is, but got a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
No, you were.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Extremely dedicated to your sport and that was all.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You had time for.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So what were you competing over then? Because it was
sport your thing too.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Yeah, sport was my thing, but Rosa isn't natural at sport,
and I was good at sport, but I was always
kind of on the reserve table for the Canterbury team,
or you know, I.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Was never in the team.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Rosa was always there.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And I think with me with my chronic fatigue, that
was kind of lingering in the background, and I always
got injured and you know, I had stress fractures and
tore my coat off the tendon and all these things
that stopped me from doing my sport.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I think a big thing as well was the body
image side of things that you looked at me as
your older sister, and I couldn't be smaller than you,
and you couldn't have bigger boobs than me and be
more developed as a female than me. You know, it
was something that you would compare to all the time.
Like I'd be out running and training and then I
would restrict myself and only eat this much for breakfast.
(05:37):
And then you think, oh, well, I've done less than her,
so I shouldn't be eating as much as her. I
will eat less than that, and I should go out
for an hour walk to compensate for it.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
You know, like it's just all these things going in
your head.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And I think a lot of people do that, whether
they're going through you know, something as severe as an
eating disorder or have chronic fatigue. You know, you look
on social media and you look at this person who's
just been in run a twenty k, you know run,
and you think, oh, gosh, I haven't done anything today.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Maybe yeah, I should be doing that.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Or look, they've just had a really healthy lunch and
I just went and got takeaways.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Like now I feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And it's really hard, I think competition wise, because I
mean it's well documented when you have a bit of competition,
particularly amongst siblings, it can be really positive. And some
of our greatest athletes have had, you know, a younger
brother or sister sort of nipping at their heels and
that has helped them achieve greatness. So that I feel like,
and look at you to it very successful sitting here.
(06:33):
So no doubt that competition has probably helped in some
ways and then also ended in other ways. Would you agree, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
I think now as we've grown older, it's the competition
is in a much more positive way, whereas back then
it was Rosa's a smaller build than me. I'm taller,
you know, more musclier than Rosa. No, you're you have
to prove that you're you know, a slightly bigger build
than Rosa, and it just goes to show that every
everybody's body is so different. Rose is an active relaxer.
(07:03):
I have to actually sleep to relax. And it's not
like Rose was saying, when you see all these things
on social media of people doing this and that, it's
just trying not to let that get to you because
everybody is so different.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Follow on Instagram and we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Rosie, your situation reminds me so much. I interviewed a
guy called Harry Everel for that We Need to Talk podcast,
and he actually was a runner and his way of
controlling his situation was to restrict his food, and he
felt like the lighter he got, the quicker he got,
and it actually developed into full blown anorexia and he
was at his worst in a psychiatric hospital. He's completely
(07:44):
recovered now, which is amazing. But I'm quite interested in
the process of recovery because sometimes when you get very
deep in restriction of food, because you have to eat
every day to stay alive, it's really hard. It's like
an alcoholic cuts alcohol out of their life to recover.
If you've got a food issue, you can't do that.
So how did what did it look like when you're
(08:05):
in the sort of throes of your illness, and how
did you flip it?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I think for me, I never had that person to
talk to who I could relate to and who had
been through a very similar situation that I'd been through
and had come out the other side and been like,
you know, I understand your thoughts and your feelings. I
understand that you want to be a really good runner,
and I understand that there's a particular.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Image that you want to be.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
But then also, this is what's happening to your body,
and these are the consequences that can then lead on
to that. But I've you know, this person's telling me
that they've flipped this and this is where they are at,
and this is where their mental health is now at.
So I never had that person to sit down and
have that one on one with And that's been one
big thing that I've wanted to take away from this
(08:50):
experience and this journey that I've been through, is be
that individual that people feel like they can come and
talk to. I think in terms of recovery as well,
that you ever get over it, like it's something that's
always there, but you just learn to manage your thoughts
that come through. I still get thoughts through like today,
(09:10):
and it's been i know, six or seven years, but
I know when they come through, and I know how
to manage them from there.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
What do you mean by thoughts?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
So like you could be sitting down and a meal
comes to you and it might be like really big
or have be really fatty, lots of butter or something,
but you know, deep down I love those types of food,
and in my head I'm saying, oh, you don't need that,
and then you know, flipping being aware that that thought's
coming through, and then flipping that thought around to me
(09:39):
like no, I love this type of food.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Everything and moderation.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
It's not going to damage anything inside of me, you know,
like just sit down and enjoy it and enjoy the
people that you're with. Or it's that whole situation if
you see someone on social media going out for a
run and you think, oh, well, I've only been for
a walk today, like I should have.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Gone for a run.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
You know it's been like no, well, actually I felt
really tired when I woke up this Morning's okay, it's okay.
I read something once it was like, you give those
thoughts ten seconds. It's like you recognize it doesn't matter.
Is it going to do me good right now? Is
it going to do me harm?
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Right now? It does me harm, you swipe that thought
right out of your head, and if you do that
within ten seconds, then you kind of like forget about it.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
But yeah, so it's a long journey. It doesn't just
happen overnight. And there's relapses that will very likely happen
that happened to me where you know, I'd be on
a really good pathway and then all of a sudden,
I'd go back to swear one again. But I think
it's that talking for me was really big, and that
being aware of my thoughts and creating actions around what
to do when those thoughts come through my head and
(10:44):
writing down things like what makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Like I never did anything that made me happy.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It was always well, what is what are other people
going to think about my you know, the time that
I run this weekend or how many k's I ran
this week, or what my body image looks like or
you know, like all those things. So it was having
a list of things reminding myself like what makes me happy?
What can I do to fill my cup up.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Have you had conversations with your parents about this, because
it's quite hard when and I know you've got loving
parents and yet you still struggle at times, and that
must have been quite hard for them to take as
parents who I'm assuming really wanted to be the best
they could be and then to see your child stuffer
like that.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, I think it's hard when it's someone you know
so well, like your parents, and who know you so
well sometimes and for me, this is what happened. It
didn't work them telling me what to do because I
just didn't listen to them, and I thought that they
didn't understand the situation I was in. You don't know
how I feel. You don't know what it's like to
be an elite runner. You don't know what it's like
(11:48):
to struggle with food and to have a negative mindset
around it. So talking to other people such as an
endocrinologist who I worked really closely with all my sports stoctor,
or you know someone as I'm saying, who's been through
a similar situation.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's just out of your.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Personal life that you're in all the time, and it's
for me, it was more of a trigger for me
to get out of the situation that I was in.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
You kind of had to hit rock bottom really to
realize what you were doing.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's pretty extreme not having a period for all
those years, you.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Know, but I didn't realize it was that was the
last thing on my mind.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I didn't even know, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Why we had periods, because it was just something I
was never interested in. I was always focused on my running,
whereas you know, Mum would have been trying to tell me,
these are why you have periods, These are the importance.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Of having them and getting them.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
But yeah, I'm just falling on yeah. Yeah, And what
about you, Mago. So while this was going on with Rosa,
tell me about the issues you were having.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah. So I went on a World Challenge trip to
Costrika when I was sixteen. So it's like a World
Vision trip where we went over four weeks and helped
community and things like that. And I will never forget
I looked in the mirror on the last day we
were there and thought, because we had no mirrors we
were in you know, the middle of nowhere, and thought,
(13:11):
oh my god, I have lost so much weight. I
didn't know why. I didn't understand why and I got home.
You know that feeling when you've unintentionally lost weight because
you're sick, and a lot of people are saying, oh gosh,
like either you look good or oh you've lost a
lot of weight, and it's like, oh yeah, I know,
like far out, I don't want to know about it.
(13:33):
Kind of quite opposite situation. I never really recovered from
my jet leg. I was always really tired, but then
constantly training with Rosa because again I felt roses run today.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I have to run today.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I have to eat exactly what Rosa eats today. And
I was probably sleeping fourteen fifteen hours a day and
with chronic fatigue. I didn't know I was diagnosed at
this point, but it took me six months to get diagnosed.
And I, from what I understand, that's quite a quick diagnosis,
like there's nothing to really diagnose it. And you know,
(14:05):
like one day, I hope it's like a COVID test
where it's a negative or a positive, because every test
you do comes back normal. I was in hospital a
couple of times and everything comes back normal, and you
kind of think you're going crazy.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And I think a lot of people don't get listened
to with the symptoms for what I heard, because every
second person you say, a good sleep.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Yeah, Well, if you ask someone how are you, a
lot of people say I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm fatigued.
You know, it's it's very common words that get thrown around.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So how did you get diagnosed?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I can't recall how we got onto the specialist, but yeah,
it was six months and I was kind of at
like breaking point of nothing's wrong, just get you know,
get your shit together, and we went to this children
specialist and I finally walked out with the diagnosis of
chronic fatigue syndrome. And from that point, I think it's
that relief of being diagnosed with something, and I just
(15:00):
absolutely hit a wall. And I was pretty much bed
ridden for two years, so I'd walk fifty meters and
just be absolutely exhausted for the rest of the day.
And how old were you at this point? I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
I think the hard thing as well with chronic fatigue
is no one can see it.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, you know, it's an invisible illness, like someone with
a broken arm. You can see they've got a broken arm.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
How do you get it? Is there a reason why
you get it or is it luck of the doraor.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
It can be Yeah, it can be brought on from
lots of different things. From my understanding, again, I'm not
one hundred percent clued up on this stuff. But for me,
they think I had glandular fever kind of in my
system a few months before I went overseas, and they
think I just overdid it. Like if you have glande
and you don't rest, then you can't get chronic fatigue.
(15:50):
But a lot of people get it virally, which they
also think I caught something overseas. But yeah, it's a
very kind of unknown illness which makes it really difficult.
And because I was yeah, twelve and thirteen, you know,
party years, I just kind of fell off the face
of the earth with a lot of my friends.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And what did you miss? Because that is it's you know,
leadership opportunities, it's balls, it's trips away for sports teams,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Yeah, So again with my sport, you know, I played
hockey to athletics, had to stop all of that. And
I feel like chronic fatigue is getting diagnosed more and
more now, which is amazing. You hear a lot about
it more. But back then it wasn't really talked about,
so a lot of people again didn't understand, like, oh,
I'm tired too. Well, I'm fatigued too. I've got brain
(16:36):
fog too. But it's just it's so different. The way
I describe it is like having COVID but ten times worse.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, back to we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So you're like that for two years? Yeah, how do
you fix chronic fatigue? How do you get treated for it?
Speaker 5 (16:55):
So I was, so I was really bad for two years.
I was bedridden for two years. And then it was
it still was like with me quite a lot. I
could do half days at school or you know, I
really had to pick.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
And choose what I did.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
But I had five years of health professionals here telling
me there was nothing I could do. It was just
a rest and get over its situation, because again there's
not much. There's not a magic pearl to take for
chronic fatigue. And then Rose and I we went over
to the States. Rosa was competing and I'd finished school
and didn't really know what I wanted to do. So
we went over to the States for a few months,
(17:28):
and you know how you just come across people randomly
and they like really kind of fit what you need
at that point. And she said, have you read this
book called The Body Ecology Diet? And I said, no,
I haven't. I always get reluctant recommending this book because
we don't do diets. It's like a medical treatment for
chronic fatigue, let's say, And it's where you cut out
(17:50):
all forms of carbs and sugars. So we essentially found
out that I had a big fungal overgrowth in my stomach.
So it was feeding off carbs and sugars, which was
what I was craving. It was taking all of my energy.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
How did you find out that you had the bungle overgrowth?
Speaker 5 (18:05):
This book is specifically for chronic fatigue or gut health yep.
So I mean read it as you will everybody to themselves.
But I was kind of at a point there where
I was like, I'm going to try anything I can,
and I did this diet and within three months my
chronic fatigu had pretty much disappeared.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Wow. Yeah, so you cut carbohydrates and sugars.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
So it's a very intensive kind of thing, again, like
a medical treatment. They recommend you don't do anything because
you're not eating properly, yes, and yeah, so cut out
all forms of carbs and sugars. It was like really
strict for a month, and then you could have pseudo
grains which is like millet and buckwheat and things for
the last two months, but no fruits like you have
(18:52):
berries and things like that. But yeah, it was It
was amazing. And that's where my passion for food came
in because I was never into food, but I think
think from then I realized the importance of fruits and
vegetables and just eating good ingredients. It wasn't expensive specialists,
it wasn't expensive treatments, it was simply just eating.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, incredible backstories for both of you. At what point,
so that sparked your passion for food? But at what
point did you decide let's make this into a business.
And you know, we were best friends again when you
stopped competing.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
It got to we were over in the States and
Margot was doing all this things with her chronic fatigue
and doing that diet that she's just been talking about.
I was still competing at that time, but I had
been through I was on my road to recovery, and
we got home and we started doing a workshop where
we did workshops based out of mum and Dad's kitchen,
(19:50):
educating people on how to cook with seasonal produce and
how to cook in a cost effective way. And that's
where our passion kind of grew. I did a degree
and human nutrition, so that was a big part of
my recovery as well. I was actually learning about the
importance of food and why we need food and why
to fuel our bodies with the right foods as well.
So it kind of literally just grew from there. And
(20:13):
I mean, Margot and I we're very big at getting
ourselves out there and talking to people and meeting new people.
And I think that's been a big part of the
growth of our brand to or sisters, is that. And yeah,
I think where we've hit a really good niche. It
was a niche at the beginning when we started, but
now it is very mainstream. But we've still got quite
(20:33):
a unique brand and the fact that we welcome all
leaders into our using our cookbooks, using our apps. We
you know, cover diet trees, we cover all sorts of
things seasonality, whether you're based in the USA, whether you're
based in New Zealand like anyone can use our recipes
at any time.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It's having that plant forward mentality. We aren't telling you
to cut out anything, which when we first started a
lot of that diets and diets are still a big thing,
but for us, diets not in our okay, because we
believe in everything in moderation. But if you plant ford
and you focus mostly on those fruits and vegetables, then
(21:12):
you're improving your gut health and add me on the side,
or have that croissant that on the Saturday at the market,
you know. But having that plant forward mindset I think
was really refreshing for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So people listening to this that might want to give
their diet, I won't say diet, the healthy lifestyle and overhaul.
What would be the first step? I know you're saying
plant forward, What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What could people do right now to try and get
themselves in a better space.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
A lot of people the first thing they think about
when they think of what's for dinner is oh, we've
got chicken in the freezer, We've got steak in the fridge,
or might have salmon tonight. Whereas we like to challenge
people's perceptions and get them to start with the plants first,
So the fruits and vegetables. What have I got in
my fridge right now, or what's check keep at the
produce store, cou I've got a pump and I'm going
(22:02):
to make a salad based around that, and then we
may have some chicken on the side. So it's kind
of flipping that mindset around how you start a meal
and go to the fridge or pantry first and see
what you have and make something yummy that's full of textures.
And I think when people start with the meat, they
tend to go with a boring surfry because the vegie's
the last minute, boring side thing, Whereas when you put
(22:24):
your energy or your thought process into the vegetable first,
you tend to create something a lot more exciting.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I think as well, Like you know, everyone's working, everyone's busy,
everyone's time poor, and that's the main excuse of not
eating a healthy life or not having a healthy lifestyle.
I don't have time for exercise, I don't have time
to prepare food, healthy nutritious food, or so I gone
by my lunch. So we're really big on meal prepping.
So on a Sunday or whatever day works for you,
(22:51):
whether it's a Monday afternoon or a Tuesday morning, whatever, Like,
make a big batch of your breakfast and then you've
got it sorted for the whole week. Make a salad
for your lunch, or a curry or a soup, and
then you can just reheat it when you're at work
and a snack if you want to, as well as
make it, put it in your freezer and then you
don't have to think about it again.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
We call it being intelligently lazy.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
It's a great idea. Food prepping for food is everything. Yeah,
and I be controlled, and.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I always say if it's you know, if something's a
priority for you, you will make the time to do it.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
We've timed ourselves many weekends in a row. Forty five
minutes for breakfast, a lunch, and a snack on a
Sunday for the week.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's all it takes. Forty five Yep. Pretty good. Your
next cookbook, which you are working away on, due to
be released around September, just in time for Christmas. What
is this next book? And where did the enspo come from?
Speaker 5 (23:47):
We're so excited for this book. Fifth book. It's called
more Salad. So second sequel on from Salad.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I've got Salad the book and it's great, by the way,
they genuinely love it.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
You'll love this one even more.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So, what is more of the salad that I get expressed?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Just more new salads.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
No, we've got a really good dessert section in there
as well, but it's just this. Yeah, well, salad was
such a success and everyone loved that whole idea of
as Mike was saying, starting your meal with your plants,
and that's just a really easy way to do that
through salads. And you can still have salads and winter
just by using you know, winter produce like your root
view cheese and silver beate and kale and all those things.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But it's yeah, it's just salads.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
It's a workshop on a page. So we've taken it
a step further for you because we always encourage people
to use a recipe as a guideline and use what's
in season, use what you have at home, like rosas
just said. So there's a swap on each recipe, so
ingredients swaps. There's a top tip on every recipe, like
freeze your ginger because it's much easier to grate and
(24:51):
then there's a delicious with so a salad it goes
well within the book, and then.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
A protein amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, guys, I can't wait to see any book. I
love looking at them as well. They always sit on
my menu stand because they were always so pretty. And
thank you for sharing so much about your backstory. I
love the fact that you are friends again. It's kind
of refreshing to have two sisters say, you know, we
didn't always see eye to eye, because quite often in
(25:19):
a PR exercise you'll be like, oh, we're such great friends.
We always have been. So thanks for being so honest
and sharing your stories today.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Well, we hope that it can inspire some others who
are going through the same thing, you know, like Rosa
was saying, we open books and we just want to
share our stories and help motivate and inspire others.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Thanks for listening till we need to talk, contact us
on Instagram and we need to talk with Tony Street
or email. We need to talk at cost online, dot co,
dot in z
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