July 3, 2026 • 13 mins
Today will see the All Blacks kick off their season in the first Nations Championship clash against France – the first test of Dave Rennie’s tenure as coach.
And as the match looms, Billy Bush, an All Blacks icon and Cantabrian joined Jason Pine to reflect on his career in rugby.
Bush told Piney that the game was different when he played; the things they got up to then would probably net them a red card today – or get them locked up in jail.
“But the referees stand back and say you boys want to play rugby, and carry it on ... and that’s sort of missing out of the game quite a bit.”
“Doesn’t have to be how we played, it was quite ruthless, really.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
In the shadow in the very shadow of One New
Zealand Stadium at Takaha, and excitement is definitely building across
this city as the fine folk of the Canterbury region
get the chance to watch All Blacks rugby in their
brand new home, and as they prepare to launch the
new Test season against France. It's the perfect time to
(00:33):
reflect on what it means to wear the black jersey,
as our next guest did thirty seven times in one
of international rugby's toughest eras the mid to late nineteen seventies.
Are Proud Cantabrian, a respected figure in multi rugby, someone
who's never been afraid to speak candidly about the game
and his experiences in it. Former All Blacks front rower
(00:55):
rugby icon Bill Bush is with us.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
How are you, Bill, I'm fine, Thanks good. It's great
to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
When you think back on your All Black's career, now,
what are the moments that stand out most of lead
to you?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Well, for me getting in the All Blacks for a start,
I was pretty nerve wracking and trying to stay in
the team because I was in and out quite a bit.
But yes, great experience, wonderful experience.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You played in an era when being a front row
forward was as much about being tough as it was
about technique. How do you reckon the modern day front
row forwards would have gone in your era in the
nineteen seventies.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, I don't know. If you get knocked over and
you laid on the ground, the boys just said get up, yes,
soft whatsoever? And you jumped up straight away and put
eyes on your head and a bit of water and
the way he carried on. So but we trained pretty hard.
Like you know, we're twelve months of the year we
(02:03):
were playing. If you got in the orbles on the
long tur so you're playing club Rugby, you start at
Christmas time, press and training. Club Rugby started around about March.
Canary started August all Blacks. Then you went on a
long tour, so you're pretty fit.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah. How much was technique though, a part of of
what your game was based on? Particularly, I guess it's
set peace time at scrum time.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Well, our coach called US concrete mixers, US Type five
and we stayed together for a long time, a long
period of time. You know, we were together for about
seven years, so you knew how one of Frank Oliver played.
He sort of, yeah, it was what's different from today,
I mean, say, we've probably been red carded, probably been
(02:49):
locked up in jail, even the things we got up
to you, but the referee you stand back and say,
you boys want to play rugby and carry it on
and then spring box. They appreciate it. Pimes didn't too much,
but that's the way it was played, and that's sort
of missing out of the game of it. Don't have
(03:09):
to be how we played. It was quite ruthless, really,
not a bit.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
How important was it though, to impose yourself physically on
your opponent to let them know that you wouldn't take
a backward step? How important were the first five or
ten minutes of a test match in your day?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Well, any young guy come up because he psyched out already,
so that's hard. The job was done. But yeah, a
lot of young guys coming through. Yeah, they always used
to tell me, but yeah, well you had to be tough.
I mean, he had long tours and I hardly got injured.
To him in South Africa, I never got injured. And
(03:46):
she was right now it was pretty pretty, pretty vicious.
And I hear that coach saying now to her talking
with this all black team, that he wanted them to
be ruthless. And that's the key. I think up to
Tight five to be ruthless. Not necessarily dirty today, but
you use your body, leg drive and use your elbows
(04:10):
and you know that sort of play. It's sort of missing,
and I'm afraid I don't know if we've got it.
I see they got the old front row from a
few years back, so they're pretty they know all about it.
Cody Taylor and the two props. I like Jacobson. He's
(04:31):
a ruthless man, good captain.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I think I was going to ask you about because
I guess his has been the selection that's raised most eyebrows.
You know that maybe there was a school of thought
that Artie would play at seven, maybe Peter Larkey at eight,
maybe Simon Parker at six.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
But you like the way Luke Jacobson goes about things.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yes, I think he's I think he's a very good
captain for the Chiefs. And well they got blown away
by the so did we. We got blown away, so
did the Brumby. So this's a topsy turvy, but good
on well ending taking that out. But it worries me
about the Type five. If we do the job up
(05:11):
front tonight, know the wind out of their sales, specially
of French. It's the best way to beat them. Kid
them early and then our backs. No matter who we
put in the back line, we go good back line.
We'll got good backs. But the type five worries me.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Bill Bush is our guest on Weekend Sport. The nineteen
seventy six tour of South Africa one of the most
controversial in rugby history. Looking back, What did that to
teach you, both as a rugby player but also as
a person.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Well, I didn't know too much about a path he'd
but I went there to find out for myself and
it wasn't good. But I also went there who as
a colored kid I suppose he could have called me.
I was five that went with Brian Williams as well.
We were in there as ordinary citizens, but I wanted
to beat them on there in soil and to say
(06:03):
us colors can play the game as well. And then
we played them nineteen eighty one of which I kept
in the side, and we dree t and all which
was controversial the drop kick, whether it went over or not,
because I think it was twelve nine at the time. Yeah,
so that's what I wanted to do. And you know,
(06:25):
a lot of l married players going back to Bend,
couching them, all those good players, Tiny Hill. They weren't
allowed to go to South Africa, you know, and that
was a problem that a lot of controversy about going there.
But I wanted to find out for myself what I
was like, wasn't wasn't nice at all?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
What was it like? How were you trying?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Oh, they was segregated. I wasn't treated any different, but
the segregation sort of thing. You know, Indians place there,
black the colors there, White's there, and no one was
allowed to go to either side until seven o'clock in
the morning. I said they were coming to the city.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I mean, I'm know you've spoken openly about feeling targeted
by South African opponents and officials because of your Muli
heritage over there, and you have spoken about it in
the in the time since.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Did it always feel important that you, you you.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Know, told that story publicly, that you let people know
what it was like for you back then.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Quite often in the hotels, and of course after mass
functions say they always spoke Afrikaans, were better now and
then they spoke English, and then we all knew what
was going on. And quite often in the hotels you
only hear people say something, and I'll say to some guy,
what did they say? And he said, oh, just saying
(07:46):
now there's that dirty bus that wow, you know those
sort of things. But you know, I didn't take too
much notice of it. You know, it's speaking Afrikaans, and
but there are good people that just hated you for
eighty minutes after that. That was, you know, nice guys.
(08:08):
And of course I went back there as a tour
guy after up finished plane and got to know Dick
Clerk and one guy he had the lockmown around the
head and he cried. He cried his eyes out when
he saw me, and he thought I was a dirty
bas had a real good fully. Yeah, well that's quite funny.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Actually we're here in Christyitch. What has this region meant
to you? Rugby wise and in your and in your life?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Bill, I come down here in nineteen sixty eight for
the weekend. Never really played rugby at school. I was
a good swimmer, never played rugby at all. But I
went to fun for four years when I finished school
and got a job up there door refining, and then
I played social rugby and I think I was getting
noticed because I got picked for the longer rips by
(08:59):
half back from Otaga. I played for Lindsay Townsend, but
I didn't go to training on a Sunday, so they
wooted me out. But I was only fifteen years old.
You know, it's only very young. Sixteen Now I come
down here. And then I played for Suburbs and my
friend of mine played for Suburbs and I didn't know
who the how a Wayne Cotchell was or Lynn Davis
and Alistair Hopkins and of all people, there's a little
(09:23):
lesson from him, but I don't know. I sort of
played rugby here and they meant I'm standing bloody all black,
said Mason wan Gray said, how do you get in
that bloody dear? Well, the guys at school said you
were useless at school. How the hell are you get
in that? Dem I said, call hidden talent.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well it didn't stayheading for very long because how did
they how did they tell you you were in the
All Blacks?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Was it one of those where it just gets read
out on the radio or something.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Oh, we had a little bit park after all Black Trial,
and I'm sitting next to Bob Barb and because Doug
Bruce's name comes out first, I don't know who. Somebody
might have be an ad But then the bees, Doug Bruce,
Bob Barber and he started crying on Michell and then
Bill Bush, and I'm trying to push them away, said,
my soldier is very emotional guy. You know you got
(10:13):
in the old bles and and yeah, yeah, we're told
under the grand set and you never heard of you
got dropped. You heard normally on the radio.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I'm not the team anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You're always known for your uncompromising standards. The phrase that
we used to hear Billy Bush rules discipline standards. Do
you think those values are just as relevant today, even
though the game is now fully professional?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Well, you know, I find that kite boring watching the
game today, and I think I take put rucking back
and then take out everything else. It could be a
better game, but we seem to be going back with
you know, we're losing a little of young players to
the league. The game it's more defensive today and and
(11:14):
always say if you went up front, you've got a
good show winning the game. We used to pay ten
man rugby and grizzlus coach and captain. We'd play ten
man rugb. We're going to get to the backs and
still win, So you could win like that. But if
we win the ball today, I think we'll we get.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The backs to.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So when you watch the All Blacks play now, does
it still stir the same emotions and you as as
it did when you were replay yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Oh yes, certainly, I am. I certainly, I am. I
know how they're feeling. And today it's all new. They
get a new hierarchy, you know, with the chairman and
the CEO and the captain and the coach. Tana, I
don't know how you got in there. Hasn't won an argument,
(12:04):
but you know he's in there for cultural reasons. He
got Henry old school, so he's pretty close to his
chest coach Renie and he's f old old guys, the
(12:26):
old front row and yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And brand you study him. Have you had the chance
to watch the gamer right here?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, I've been into three times, very similar to Alice
Park or Alice Park's at ten times twenty times higher,
but you're looking straight down on the players, especially if
we're on the on the Barbados Street side, the east side,
quite steep to climb up, but I get up there,
no problem. We got set up by the pigeons, so
(12:57):
it's easy to get up there and come down. Good
rails for us, old fellows.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Good view up there, good view, very good view.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Very good view, I'm going to say, for a concert
and you're sitting run on top of the band marvelous
wonderless Bell.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's great to have you here. Thanks for stopping in
to reminisce with us a little bit. Your legacy is
well and truly secure. A lot of people remember you finally, mate,
so thanks for taking the time to chat to us today.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Problem Bill Bush joining us on Weekend Sport.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Great to have them along on Test Match Saturday here
in christ Church.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
In the shadow in the very shadow of One New
Zealand Stadium at Takaha, and excitement is definitely building across
this city as the fine folk of the Canterbury region
get the chance to watch All Blacks rugby in their
brand new home, and as they prepare to launch the
new Test season against France. It's the perfect time to
(00:33):
reflect on what it means to wear the black jersey,
as our next guest did thirty seven times in one
of international rugby's toughest eras the mid to late nineteen seventies.
Are Proud Cantabrian, a respected figure in multi rugby, someone
who's never been afraid to speak candidly about the game
and his experiences in it. Former All Blacks front rower
(00:55):
rugby icon Bill Bush is with us.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
How are you, Bill, I'm fine, Thanks good. It's great
to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
When you think back on your All Black's career, now,
what are the moments that stand out most of lead
to you?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Well, for me getting in the All Blacks for a start,
I was pretty nerve wracking and trying to stay in
the team because I was in and out quite a bit.
But yes, great experience, wonderful experience.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You played in an era when being a front row
forward was as much about being tough as it was
about technique. How do you reckon the modern day front
row forwards would have gone in your era in the
nineteen seventies.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, I don't know. If you get knocked over and
you laid on the ground, the boys just said get up, yes,
soft whatsoever? And you jumped up straight away and put
eyes on your head and a bit of water and
the way he carried on. So but we trained pretty hard.
Like you know, we're twelve months of the year we
(02:03):
were playing. If you got in the orbles on the
long tur so you're playing club Rugby, you start at
Christmas time, press and training. Club Rugby started around about March.
Canary started August all Blacks. Then you went on a
long tour, so you're pretty fit.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah. How much was technique though, a part of of
what your game was based on? Particularly, I guess it's
set peace time at scrum time.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Well, our coach called US concrete mixers, US Type five
and we stayed together for a long time, a long
period of time. You know, we were together for about
seven years, so you knew how one of Frank Oliver played.
He sort of, yeah, it was what's different from today,
I mean, say, we've probably been red carded, probably been
(02:49):
locked up in jail, even the things we got up
to you, but the referee you stand back and say,
you boys want to play rugby and carry it on
and then spring box. They appreciate it. Pimes didn't too much,
but that's the way it was played, and that's sort
of missing out of the game of it. Don't have
(03:09):
to be how we played. It was quite ruthless, really,
not a bit.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
How important was it though, to impose yourself physically on
your opponent to let them know that you wouldn't take
a backward step? How important were the first five or
ten minutes of a test match in your day?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Well, any young guy come up because he psyched out already,
so that's hard. The job was done. But yeah, a
lot of young guys coming through. Yeah, they always used
to tell me, but yeah, well you had to be tough.
I mean, he had long tours and I hardly got injured.
To him in South Africa, I never got injured. And
(03:46):
she was right now it was pretty pretty, pretty vicious.
And I hear that coach saying now to her talking
with this all black team, that he wanted them to
be ruthless. And that's the key. I think up to
Tight five to be ruthless. Not necessarily dirty today, but
you use your body, leg drive and use your elbows
(04:10):
and you know that sort of play. It's sort of missing,
and I'm afraid I don't know if we've got it.
I see they got the old front row from a
few years back, so they're pretty they know all about it.
Cody Taylor and the two props. I like Jacobson. He's
(04:31):
a ruthless man, good captain.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I think I was going to ask you about because
I guess his has been the selection that's raised most eyebrows.
You know that maybe there was a school of thought
that Artie would play at seven, maybe Peter Larkey at eight,
maybe Simon Parker at six.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
But you like the way Luke Jacobson goes about things.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yes, I think he's I think he's a very good
captain for the Chiefs. And well they got blown away
by the so did we. We got blown away, so
did the Brumby. So this's a topsy turvy, but good
on well ending taking that out. But it worries me
about the Type five. If we do the job up
(05:11):
front tonight, know the wind out of their sales, specially
of French. It's the best way to beat them. Kid
them early and then our backs. No matter who we
put in the back line, we go good back line.
We'll got good backs. But the type five worries me.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Bill Bush is our guest on Weekend Sport. The nineteen
seventy six tour of South Africa one of the most
controversial in rugby history. Looking back, What did that to
teach you, both as a rugby player but also as
a person.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Well, I didn't know too much about a path he'd
but I went there to find out for myself and
it wasn't good. But I also went there who as
a colored kid I suppose he could have called me.
I was five that went with Brian Williams as well.
We were in there as ordinary citizens, but I wanted
to beat them on there in soil and to say
(06:03):
us colors can play the game as well. And then
we played them nineteen eighty one of which I kept
in the side, and we dree t and all which
was controversial the drop kick, whether it went over or not,
because I think it was twelve nine at the time. Yeah,
so that's what I wanted to do. And you know,
(06:25):
a lot of l married players going back to Bend,
couching them, all those good players, Tiny Hill. They weren't
allowed to go to South Africa, you know, and that
was a problem that a lot of controversy about going there.
But I wanted to find out for myself what I
was like, wasn't wasn't nice at all?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
What was it like? How were you trying?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Oh, they was segregated. I wasn't treated any different, but
the segregation sort of thing. You know, Indians place there,
black the colors there, White's there, and no one was
allowed to go to either side until seven o'clock in
the morning. I said they were coming to the city.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I mean, I'm know you've spoken openly about feeling targeted
by South African opponents and officials because of your Muli
heritage over there, and you have spoken about it in
the in the time since.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Did it always feel important that you, you you.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Know, told that story publicly, that you let people know
what it was like for you back then.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Quite often in the hotels, and of course after mass
functions say they always spoke Afrikaans, were better now and
then they spoke English, and then we all knew what
was going on. And quite often in the hotels you
only hear people say something, and I'll say to some guy,
what did they say? And he said, oh, just saying
(07:46):
now there's that dirty bus that wow, you know those
sort of things. But you know, I didn't take too
much notice of it. You know, it's speaking Afrikaans, and
but there are good people that just hated you for
eighty minutes after that. That was, you know, nice guys.
(08:08):
And of course I went back there as a tour
guy after up finished plane and got to know Dick
Clerk and one guy he had the lockmown around the
head and he cried. He cried his eyes out when
he saw me, and he thought I was a dirty
bas had a real good fully. Yeah, well that's quite funny.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Actually we're here in Christyitch. What has this region meant
to you? Rugby wise and in your and in your life?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Bill, I come down here in nineteen sixty eight for
the weekend. Never really played rugby at school. I was
a good swimmer, never played rugby at all. But I
went to fun for four years when I finished school
and got a job up there door refining, and then
I played social rugby and I think I was getting
noticed because I got picked for the longer rips by
(08:59):
half back from Otaga. I played for Lindsay Townsend, but
I didn't go to training on a Sunday, so they
wooted me out. But I was only fifteen years old.
You know, it's only very young. Sixteen Now I come
down here. And then I played for Suburbs and my
friend of mine played for Suburbs and I didn't know
who the how a Wayne Cotchell was or Lynn Davis
and Alistair Hopkins and of all people, there's a little
(09:23):
lesson from him, but I don't know. I sort of
played rugby here and they meant I'm standing bloody all black,
said Mason wan Gray said, how do you get in
that bloody dear? Well, the guys at school said you
were useless at school. How the hell are you get
in that? Dem I said, call hidden talent.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well it didn't stayheading for very long because how did
they how did they tell you you were in the
All Blacks?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Was it one of those where it just gets read
out on the radio or something.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Oh, we had a little bit park after all Black Trial,
and I'm sitting next to Bob Barb and because Doug
Bruce's name comes out first, I don't know who. Somebody
might have be an ad But then the bees, Doug Bruce,
Bob Barber and he started crying on Michell and then
Bill Bush, and I'm trying to push them away, said,
my soldier is very emotional guy. You know you got
(10:13):
in the old bles and and yeah, yeah, we're told
under the grand set and you never heard of you
got dropped. You heard normally on the radio.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I'm not the team anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You're always known for your uncompromising standards. The phrase that
we used to hear Billy Bush rules discipline standards. Do
you think those values are just as relevant today, even
though the game is now fully professional?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Well, you know, I find that kite boring watching the
game today, and I think I take put rucking back
and then take out everything else. It could be a
better game, but we seem to be going back with
you know, we're losing a little of young players to
the league. The game it's more defensive today and and
(11:14):
always say if you went up front, you've got a
good show winning the game. We used to pay ten
man rugby and grizzlus coach and captain. We'd play ten
man rugb. We're going to get to the backs and
still win, So you could win like that. But if
we win the ball today, I think we'll we get.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The backs to.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So when you watch the All Blacks play now, does
it still stir the same emotions and you as as
it did when you were replay yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Oh yes, certainly, I am. I certainly, I am. I
know how they're feeling. And today it's all new. They
get a new hierarchy, you know, with the chairman and
the CEO and the captain and the coach. Tana, I
don't know how you got in there. Hasn't won an argument,
(12:04):
but you know he's in there for cultural reasons. He
got Henry old school, so he's pretty close to his
chest coach Renie and he's f old old guys, the
(12:26):
old front row and yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And brand you study him. Have you had the chance
to watch the gamer right here?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, I've been into three times, very similar to Alice
Park or Alice Park's at ten times twenty times higher,
but you're looking straight down on the players, especially if
we're on the on the Barbados Street side, the east side,
quite steep to climb up, but I get up there,
no problem. We got set up by the pigeons, so
(12:57):
it's easy to get up there and come down. Good
rails for us, old fellows.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Good view up there, good view, very good view.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Very good view, I'm going to say, for a concert
and you're sitting run on top of the band marvelous
wonderless Bell.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's great to have you here. Thanks for stopping in
to reminisce with us a little bit. Your legacy is
well and truly secure. A lot of people remember you finally, mate,
so thanks for taking the time to chat to us today.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Problem Bill Bush joining us on Weekend Sport.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Great to have them along on Test Match Saturday here
in christ Church.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.