The entirety of the All Blacks squad - minus Ardie Savea - have now arrived in Cape Town and they've been welcomed into the fortress they'll play at twice on the Greatest Rivalry tour.
A public event was held at DHL Stadium, with around 5000 fans watching on.
It's a city where the All Blacks have traditionally had strong support and they'll face the Stormers there next weekend as well as play the second test there.
South African rugby writer Brendan Nel joined Piney to discuss ahead of next week's game.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The All Blacks have arrived in South Africa for the
highly anticipated Greatest Rivalry Tour. Around five thousand fans attended
an open event at DHL Stadium in Cape Town, where
the All Blacks will begin the tour against the Stormers
next weekend. Great pleasure to welcome in one of South
Africa's most experienced and respected rugby reporters and analysts and
(00:35):
longtime observer of The spring Box, Brendan Nell. Thanks for
joining us, Brendan. Does the arrival of the All Blacks
still generate a different level of excitement compared to other
touring teams?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I think the only other team that comes close is
probably the British and Irish Lions when they and that's
so seldom anyway.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, I think there's always.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
A buzz around the All Blacks in South Africa and
just as there is in I'm sure in New Zealand
with the spring Box. Are there, but especially ahead of
a tour like this, because yeah, I was, I was.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Chatting to somebody the other day.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Nineteen ninety six was my first tour as a rugby writer,
and and it's just it's bizarre to think it's been
thirty years since there's been a proper tour. So yeah,
there's a lot of excitement about that going around in
these next couple of weeks. And I think it's even
just now that the All Blacks of years can just
get bigger.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
South Abreger of one, five of the last sixtiest between
the two nations. Despite that, is there still an overriding
feeling that you can never take the All Blacks lightly?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, I think so.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I mean I always say I remember when, I mean
when the All Blacks were so dominant back in what
was that fifty seven at Albany, that that that horror
day that we had two weeks later it was in
Cape Town and it was a one point game. So yeah,
I think the spring Box there's sa much respect between
the two sides that they know that that the All
Blacks of the one side that can lift themselves.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We saw in the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I mean going into that final, Yeah, everybody thought the
Springing Box were one song, They're going to win it, Yeah,
and the All Blacks made it an extremely difficult game,
which in the Springboks are probably lucky to get away
with it then then went on for another ten minutes
have been a different result.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So yeah, you're never safe against the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It's it's always a game where there's probably less less.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Than a try in it normally.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And yeah, so I think South Africans respect the All
Blacks a lot and we're looking forward to this challenge
because things have been going very well for the Box
at the moment, but we know the one team that
can give us a lot of problems are the All Bocks. Well.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The other lave to this, of course, is that the
All Blacks come into this series under a relatively new
coaching team led by Dave Rennie, and after wins in
July and the Nation's championship against France, Italyan Ireland. Have
those performances and those results caught the attention of rugby
people in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, I think it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Has because for a couple of reasons, you know, I mean, obviously,
sitting on the side of the world, we're not always
privy to what happened with Rasa and behind the scenes
there we've heard a lot of story is obviously, but yeah,
we always felt it was a bit harsh on Raiser
because almost it was almost like Heinekameyer when the All
Blacks were so dominant twenty eleven, twenty fifteen. It doesn't
(03:17):
matter how good a coach you are, when you've got
a team that's that dominant, you're always going to your
results are always going to look a bit chabby. So
I felt for Raising because this is a very dominant era.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
For the spring Box.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
But what Dave Rennie has brought is is we can
see the All Blacks playing with a purpose, with a
lot more direct and a lot more than the All
Blacks of all that we've seen as well, so very
much the DNA of the All Blacks that we've seen
in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So I think I think the other thing as well
is why we also wear is because Dave.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Rennie might have had a terrible record at the Wallabies,
I think it's thirty eight percent record, but against South
Africa and that period when it was at the Wallabies,
he won three out of four. Now, I mean there's
always asterix and there's a couple of the things you
can say woul happened in each game, but still that's
a good record against Russy Russemus. I don't think there
are many coaches in world rugby that have the record
against as well. So yeah, that's also another reason the
(04:09):
Box are taking this very seriously. This is the biggest
test for them this year. Russy got a bit of
blowback when you said the Nations Championship wasn't that big,
because this is the big thing this year and I
think we all feel that way.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
All right, Well, let's talk about South Africa, then world's
number one ranked team, back to back World Cup winners.
They comfortably won all three of their Nations Championship matches
in July. You've seen a lot of all Blacks and
South African rugby matches, Brendan. How does the South African side?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Is this among the best South African sides you've seen?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well? In my time, it's certainly the best spring Box side.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I'm not one of who likes comparing eras because I feel,
you know, the game changes.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
If you look at the games.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Twenty thirty years ago, they look very different than the
games played now. Yeah, but the only team I can
really compare it to in this area is probably that
two thousand and seventeam of victim Mattfield BUCkies with a
John Smith, those.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Brian Habana, those type of guys, and the.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Difference between this team and that team is this team's
been dominant between World Cups.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The South Africans then have at.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Times slipped between World Cups and their standards and the
depth in this team is incredible at the moment. I
think we saw it in last year when they turned
New Zealand. They saw after Eden Parker almost changed the
entire team and then they had a huge winning Wellington
and they had a point luckily all the next winning
twenty eleven, twenty fifteen, that they could almost field two
(05:35):
separate teams. We saw at the c and the Nations
Championship they made I think eleven changes against Scotland and
still won that game quite comfortably at the end.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So they're in a very good spot at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
There's lots of competition in the team and there's a
host of youngsters. South Africa's also back to back Junior
World champions and you know there's a host of those
guys coming through pushing for places and hopefully for the
next World Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
We're just on that depth and the number of quality
players that Racie Erasmus now has to select from that
must all be a challenge for him because everybody wants
to play, but not everybody can, So how has Rascia
Erasmus managed his side with so much depth, and of
course the young players coming through as well.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I think it's it's probably it's gonna sound like a
hell of a cliche that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I mean the year at a lot in New Zealand
as well about you only you only you're only wearing
that jersey for a while.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
You know, you're keeping it warm for the next guy,
You're keeping the legacy going. And it's very much that
I think Russi's all say brutally direct at times. Anybody
who's seen Chasing the Sun that famous scene where he
said to Cli Caulis is not the most important thing
in South Africa and and you think that captain is
iconic as here and somebody's saying that to him.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Only Russi would be able to do that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So I think also what happens is they've got to
a point where the training sessions are test match.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Intensity and there's a very honest.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Approach with saying that some of these double World Cup
winners are reaching the end of the the thing. If
they can still handle the training sessions, and they can
still handle the youngsters in those training sessions, then they'll be.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Fine to play tests.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
But we've already seen a couple of guys bombing, and
the Numbie five, the Clark guys like that we didn't
think would fall by the way, so so quickly we
have so early as we go along, we'll see that.
And at the moment he's got a squad of I
think forty three plus a couple of probably around fifty players.
He's going to cut a hold of those before we
go to the World Cup. So there's going to be
some guys before, by the way.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So all right, Brennible, please give us here in New
Zealand some hope.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Are there any weaknesses in the South African side, all
areas that All Blacks might look to exploit?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, I think I think the.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
One thing that this book team has shown, there one
difference to this team. And that's why I've heard some
pundits in the last couple of weeks saying you've got
to run the spring Box off their feet, and some
makes all Blacks saying things like that this team with
Tony Brown is probably a Springbok team. Will probably run
you off your feet a lot quicker than you will.
Then they extremely fit. Yeah, they like playing the expensive game.
(08:07):
They've still got the physicality, they still got the scrub
I think. I think what the All Blacks need to
do is obviously match that physicality. I think that's any
team who plays the spring Box. There's no state secret that.
But the All Blacks have got X factor in their
back line. And yeah, they've got some great players who
can rip a game open.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And and I think South Africa's biggest thing is you
can't let the All Blacks get the start.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You can't.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It's going to be a fight till the end, and
you're gonna be in that game for any minutes. So yeah,
Russi's team is going to be very interesting because we're
playing against Argentina now in the next week. It's just
before we play the All Blacks, and that's to give
a bunch of the returning guys a chance to play.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
But the team that the.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Twenty three is gonna pick for the test, there's going
to be the team that's going to beat the All
Blacks in his mind, and there's gonna be a lot
of competition for that.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So to me reg people. You know, I always say
to people, well the Welsh. I was on BBC Wells.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Before the Welsh Test and they asked you the same thing,
given some hope and it's hard with Wales and where
they state they are, And all I said to them was,
you know, rugby ball bounces. You just need to have
one wrong bounce, one ball go into one player's hands
and it changes the dynamic of a game. We've seen
itself and the All Backs are not Wales. They are
much much better team and the spring Books know that,
(09:24):
they respect that. So I think the biggest factor for
me in this test series is probably going to be
the four back.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
To back tests. These games are incredibly physical.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Modern rugby players haven't played four back to back tests
other than on in November two and usually there's some
tests that's a bit.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Lighter in those tests than they are.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
But these four intensely physical tests are going to take
a toll and I think that's where squad depth is
going to come in. So it's going to be very important.
The team that's going to be left standing by the
time they get to Baltimore is going to be the
team that's probably going.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
To win it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That'saw a really interesting tweet from you during the week, Brandon,
and you said, I know people have the right to
support whoever they want, but given everything Racy and see
his Box have a achieved in what they mean for
the majority of this country, it's still a stowns made
to see many South Africans support another country against their
own in the past. Understandable, but not now. That's what
you tweeted out. So we know how much South African
(10:20):
rugby fans respect the all blacks and love the all blacks.
Is there still a deep affection for the all blacks
in parts of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I think there's there's two different things.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
When I was addressing those tweets said, we saw a
bunch of all black fans turn up in Cape Town,
and there's always been a lot of support historically because
of a part time, because of the exclusion of a
large part of our population. At a lot of fans
supported the opposing team against the spring Box.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
For good reason.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
I just think we you know, with thirty years on,
more than thirty years on now, the people that they
were there yesterday weren't born.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But we know all that happened, and I think more
than that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
This Springbok team at the moment probably represents the country
more than any Springbok team I've ever seen. It's taken
the whole concept of race out of the discussion around
the spring box, which always was there. We used to
have talk about quotas and things like that. That's all,
by the way. So every player that's in that team
now at the moment is there on merit and has
been an X fact and would probably walk into most
(11:20):
world teams as well. So I feel for that, and
well I would see a Cadisi that and Russia I
have done on this team has probably done a lot
more for South African politics, shall I say, or race
relations than anything anything of politicians done. So to me,
you still see South African fans supporting the all blacks.
(11:41):
I don't quite understand it. To each day own you
can support whoever you want to at the end of
the day, I don't understand it. And I think that's
what I was pointing out. I think just generally that
crowd which was four or five thousand yesterday twenty years
fifteen years ago, wild probably be fifteen or twenty thousand.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So I think that's changed.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
That's getting smaller, but on the other the rest of
the country in nineteen ninety percent of the country I
think respects the All Blacks in terms of we love
the rugby, we love the culture, we love the rivalry.
But I mean, at the end of the day, we
still want to smash your guys, and I think that's
what it comes down to.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It's exactly the same on yours side.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely absolutely it is. Well, let's talk about the series
to finish. We've been talking a lot over here about
what might happen in these four test matches in particular,
and what would be a good result and acceptable result
for us in terms of series, and there seems to
be a bit of a consensus that if we were
able to square the series against the number one team
in the world, that would be a good result. What
(12:39):
about from your point of view, Brennan, would too, too
be considered a failure for South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
That's a good question. I'm not quite sure. I mean, obviously,
I think the Springboks would probably want to win four Nola.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I mean that if you ask them, But I think,
as I say, back to back tests and the way
I've seen, I mean, that's the one thing we don't
have anymore in modern rugby when we used to have
the three Test series, and the last couple of years
we've seen how teams have adapted from the first Test
to the second Test. So I think the Box, no,
this challenge is going to be very real. So I
wouldn't personally say it's a failure. It depends on how
(13:15):
those defeats are and how those you know, if there's
a blowout, I think it will be seen as a failure.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
But yeah, there's there's so much pride in the spring
Box team.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I think these games are all going to go down
to the why, and at the end of the day,
you just hope you're on the right side of it.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I think South African fans don't. I won't say mind
losing to the All Blacks. I think they understand it
a lot more. We just don't want to see a
fifty seven nolar like we saw in Albany.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I think that was the low point for US all,
probably even lower.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Than losing to Japan at the World Cup, which I
was also at. Yeah, I mean that one, that just
it was, Yeah, it was a horrible day, but that
fifty seven they'll still sticks sticks in your brain the
whole time, just like I'm sure Wellington does last year
because that was a superb performance by the spring Box.
And yeah, so I think I think to to it
probably would it would be seemed like a too two draw.
(14:04):
It wouldn't be seen as favorable or unfavored, but I
think they'd win.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It went all forward it.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, well, the forty three to ten still sticks to us,
sticks in our minds, Brendan, I can assure you of that.
That's a bit more recent than the fifty seven nil
at Albany, over a decade or so ago. Now, great
to chat to you. Thanks for painting a picture for
us from a South African point of view. Whatever happens
over the next couple of weeks or so a couple
of months or so, I really hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Oh yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait. I must
have been ninety six was a blast.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I don't think I appreciated it because I was very
young as a journal But this one I'm really looking
forward to.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, Salwee, Brendan saw Wee. Thanks for joining us, mate,
Brendan now there out of South Africa with his thoughts
on this upcoming series. I just I feel as though
if I was South Africa, I'd be supremely confident. I'd
look at my team and go, you know what, we're
the best team in the world. We're playing at home
against a team with a new coaching staff who we've
(15:00):
beaten in five of the last six Test matches, including
forty three ten in New Zealand the last time we
locked horns. So they, I guess, are right to be confident,
but that just makes me want to beat them more.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I just.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Even listening to Brendan there and heck of a nice guy.
I love them, But you can South Africans think they're
going to beat us four nil. That's what they think.
What do you reckon? I mean, we've sort of been
over and over this kind of you know what would
be a successful series score and that sort of thing.
We've had that conversation. You can add to it if
you want to. But I just now want to beat
(15:38):
them more than ever.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
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from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The All Blacks have arrived in South Africa for the
highly anticipated Greatest Rivalry Tour. Around five thousand fans attended
an open event at DHL Stadium in Cape Town, where
the All Blacks will begin the tour against the Stormers
next weekend. Great pleasure to welcome in one of South
Africa's most experienced and respected rugby reporters and analysts and
(00:35):
longtime observer of The spring Box, Brendan Nell. Thanks for
joining us, Brendan. Does the arrival of the All Blacks
still generate a different level of excitement compared to other
touring teams?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I think the only other team that comes close is
probably the British and Irish Lions when they and that's
so seldom anyway.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, I think there's always.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
A buzz around the All Blacks in South Africa and
just as there is in I'm sure in New Zealand
with the spring Box. Are there, but especially ahead of
a tour like this, because yeah, I was, I was.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Chatting to somebody the other day.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Nineteen ninety six was my first tour as a rugby writer,
and and it's just it's bizarre to think it's been
thirty years since there's been a proper tour. So yeah,
there's a lot of excitement about that going around in
these next couple of weeks. And I think it's even
just now that the All Blacks of years can just
get bigger.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
South Abreger of one, five of the last sixtiest between
the two nations. Despite that, is there still an overriding
feeling that you can never take the All Blacks lightly?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, I think so.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I mean I always say I remember when, I mean
when the All Blacks were so dominant back in what
was that fifty seven at Albany, that that that horror
day that we had two weeks later it was in
Cape Town and it was a one point game. So yeah,
I think the spring Box there's sa much respect between
the two sides that they know that that the All
Blacks of the one side that can lift themselves.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We saw in the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
I mean going into that final, Yeah, everybody thought the
Springing Box were one song, They're going to win it, Yeah,
and the All Blacks made it an extremely difficult game,
which in the Springboks are probably lucky to get away
with it then then went on for another ten minutes
have been a different result.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So yeah, you're never safe against the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It's it's always a game where there's probably less less.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Than a try in it normally.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And yeah, so I think South Africans respect the All
Blacks a lot and we're looking forward to this challenge
because things have been going very well for the Box
at the moment, but we know the one team that
can give us a lot of problems are the All Bocks. Well.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
The other lave to this, of course, is that the
All Blacks come into this series under a relatively new
coaching team led by Dave Rennie, and after wins in
July and the Nation's championship against France, Italyan Ireland. Have
those performances and those results caught the attention of rugby
people in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, I think it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Has because for a couple of reasons, you know, I mean, obviously,
sitting on the side of the world, we're not always
privy to what happened with Rasa and behind the scenes
there we've heard a lot of story is obviously, but yeah,
we always felt it was a bit harsh on Raiser
because almost it was almost like Heinekameyer when the All
Blacks were so dominant twenty eleven, twenty fifteen. It doesn't
(03:17):
matter how good a coach you are, when you've got
a team that's that dominant, you're always going to your
results are always going to look a bit chabby. So
I felt for Raising because this is a very dominant era.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
For the spring Box.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
But what Dave Rennie has brought is is we can
see the All Blacks playing with a purpose, with a
lot more direct and a lot more than the All
Blacks of all that we've seen as well, so very
much the DNA of the All Blacks that we've seen
in the past.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So I think I think the other thing as well
is why we also wear is because Dave.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Rennie might have had a terrible record at the Wallabies,
I think it's thirty eight percent record, but against South
Africa and that period when it was at the Wallabies,
he won three out of four. Now, I mean there's
always asterix and there's a couple of the things you
can say woul happened in each game, but still that's
a good record against Russy Russemus. I don't think there
are many coaches in world rugby that have the record
against as well. So yeah, that's also another reason the
(04:09):
Box are taking this very seriously. This is the biggest
test for them this year. Russy got a bit of
blowback when you said the Nations Championship wasn't that big,
because this is the big thing this year and I
think we all feel that way.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
All right, Well, let's talk about South Africa, then world's
number one ranked team, back to back World Cup winners.
They comfortably won all three of their Nations Championship matches
in July. You've seen a lot of all Blacks and
South African rugby matches, Brendan. How does the South African side?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Is this among the best South African sides you've seen?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well? In my time, it's certainly the best spring Box side.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I'm not one of who likes comparing eras because I feel,
you know, the game changes.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
If you look at the games.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Twenty thirty years ago, they look very different than the
games played now. Yeah, but the only team I can
really compare it to in this area is probably that
two thousand and seventeam of victim Mattfield BUCkies with a
John Smith, those.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Brian Habana, those type of guys, and the.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Difference between this team and that team is this team's
been dominant between World Cups.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The South Africans then have at.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Times slipped between World Cups and their standards and the
depth in this team is incredible at the moment. I
think we saw it in last year when they turned
New Zealand. They saw after Eden Parker almost changed the
entire team and then they had a huge winning Wellington
and they had a point luckily all the next winning
twenty eleven, twenty fifteen, that they could almost field two
(05:35):
separate teams. We saw at the c and the Nations
Championship they made I think eleven changes against Scotland and
still won that game quite comfortably at the end.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So they're in a very good spot at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
There's lots of competition in the team and there's a
host of youngsters. South Africa's also back to back Junior
World champions and you know there's a host of those
guys coming through pushing for places and hopefully for the
next World Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
We're just on that depth and the number of quality
players that Racie Erasmus now has to select from that
must all be a challenge for him because everybody wants
to play, but not everybody can, So how has Rascia
Erasmus managed his side with so much depth, and of
course the young players coming through as well.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I think it's it's probably it's gonna sound like a
hell of a cliche that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I mean the year at a lot in New Zealand
as well about you only you only you're only wearing
that jersey for a while.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
You know, you're keeping it warm for the next guy,
You're keeping the legacy going. And it's very much that
I think Russi's all say brutally direct at times. Anybody
who's seen Chasing the Sun that famous scene where he
said to Cli Caulis is not the most important thing
in South Africa and and you think that captain is
iconic as here and somebody's saying that to him.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Only Russi would be able to do that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So I think also what happens is they've got to
a point where the training sessions are test match.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Intensity and there's a very honest.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Approach with saying that some of these double World Cup
winners are reaching the end of the the thing. If
they can still handle the training sessions, and they can
still handle the youngsters in those training sessions, then they'll be.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Fine to play tests.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
But we've already seen a couple of guys bombing, and
the Numbie five, the Clark guys like that we didn't
think would fall by the way, so so quickly we
have so early as we go along, we'll see that.
And at the moment he's got a squad of I
think forty three plus a couple of probably around fifty players.
He's going to cut a hold of those before we
go to the World Cup. So there's going to be
some guys before, by the way.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So all right, Brennible, please give us here in New
Zealand some hope.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Are there any weaknesses in the South African side, all
areas that All Blacks might look to exploit?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, I think I think the.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
One thing that this book team has shown, there one
difference to this team. And that's why I've heard some
pundits in the last couple of weeks saying you've got
to run the spring Box off their feet, and some
makes all Blacks saying things like that this team with
Tony Brown is probably a Springbok team. Will probably run
you off your feet a lot quicker than you will.
Then they extremely fit. Yeah, they like playing the expensive game.
(08:07):
They've still got the physicality, they still got the scrub
I think. I think what the All Blacks need to
do is obviously match that physicality. I think that's any
team who plays the spring Box. There's no state secret that.
But the All Blacks have got X factor in their
back line. And yeah, they've got some great players who
can rip a game open.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And and I think South Africa's biggest thing is you
can't let the All Blacks get the start.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You can't.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It's going to be a fight till the end, and
you're gonna be in that game for any minutes. So yeah,
Russi's team is going to be very interesting because we're
playing against Argentina now in the next week. It's just
before we play the All Blacks, and that's to give
a bunch of the returning guys a chance to play.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
But the team that the.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Twenty three is gonna pick for the test, there's going
to be the team that's going to beat the All
Blacks in his mind, and there's gonna be a lot
of competition for that.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So to me reg people. You know, I always say
to people, well the Welsh. I was on BBC Wells.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Before the Welsh Test and they asked you the same thing,
given some hope and it's hard with Wales and where
they state they are, And all I said to them was,
you know, rugby ball bounces. You just need to have
one wrong bounce, one ball go into one player's hands
and it changes the dynamic of a game. We've seen
itself and the All Backs are not Wales. They are
much much better team and the spring Books know that,
(09:24):
they respect that. So I think the biggest factor for
me in this test series is probably going to be
the four back.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
To back tests. These games are incredibly physical.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Modern rugby players haven't played four back to back tests
other than on in November two and usually there's some
tests that's a bit.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Lighter in those tests than they are.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
But these four intensely physical tests are going to take
a toll and I think that's where squad depth is
going to come in. So it's going to be very important.
The team that's going to be left standing by the
time they get to Baltimore is going to be the
team that's probably going.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
To win it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That'saw a really interesting tweet from you during the week, Brandon,
and you said, I know people have the right to
support whoever they want, but given everything Racy and see
his Box have a achieved in what they mean for
the majority of this country, it's still a stowns made
to see many South Africans support another country against their
own in the past. Understandable, but not now. That's what
you tweeted out. So we know how much South African
(10:20):
rugby fans respect the all blacks and love the all blacks.
Is there still a deep affection for the all blacks
in parts of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I think there's there's two different things.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
When I was addressing those tweets said, we saw a
bunch of all black fans turn up in Cape Town,
and there's always been a lot of support historically because
of a part time, because of the exclusion of a
large part of our population. At a lot of fans
supported the opposing team against the spring Box.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
For good reason.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
I just think we you know, with thirty years on,
more than thirty years on now, the people that they
were there yesterday weren't born.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But we know all that happened, and I think more
than that.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
This Springbok team at the moment probably represents the country
more than any Springbok team I've ever seen. It's taken
the whole concept of race out of the discussion around
the spring box, which always was there. We used to
have talk about quotas and things like that. That's all,
by the way. So every player that's in that team
now at the moment is there on merit and has
been an X fact and would probably walk into most
(11:20):
world teams as well. So I feel for that, and
well I would see a Cadisi that and Russia I
have done on this team has probably done a lot
more for South African politics, shall I say, or race
relations than anything anything of politicians done. So to me,
you still see South African fans supporting the all blacks.
(11:41):
I don't quite understand it. To each day own you
can support whoever you want to at the end of
the day, I don't understand it. And I think that's
what I was pointing out. I think just generally that
crowd which was four or five thousand yesterday twenty years
fifteen years ago, wild probably be fifteen or twenty thousand.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So I think that's changed.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
That's getting smaller, but on the other the rest of
the country in nineteen ninety percent of the country I
think respects the All Blacks in terms of we love
the rugby, we love the culture, we love the rivalry.
But I mean, at the end of the day, we
still want to smash your guys, and I think that's
what it comes down to.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It's exactly the same on yours side.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely absolutely it is. Well, let's talk about the series
to finish. We've been talking a lot over here about
what might happen in these four test matches in particular,
and what would be a good result and acceptable result
for us in terms of series, and there seems to
be a bit of a consensus that if we were
able to square the series against the number one team
in the world, that would be a good result. What
(12:39):
about from your point of view, Brennan, would too, too
be considered a failure for South Africa.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
That's a good question. I'm not quite sure. I mean, obviously,
I think the Springboks would probably want to win four Nola.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I mean that if you ask them, But I think,
as I say, back to back tests and the way
I've seen, I mean, that's the one thing we don't
have anymore in modern rugby when we used to have
the three Test series, and the last couple of years
we've seen how teams have adapted from the first Test
to the second Test. So I think the Box, no,
this challenge is going to be very real. So I
wouldn't personally say it's a failure. It depends on how
(13:15):
those defeats are and how those you know, if there's
a blowout, I think it will be seen as a failure.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
But yeah, there's there's so much pride in the spring
Box team.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I think these games are all going to go down
to the why, and at the end of the day,
you just hope you're on the right side of it.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I think South African fans don't. I won't say mind
losing to the All Blacks. I think they understand it
a lot more. We just don't want to see a
fifty seven nolar like we saw in Albany.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I think that was the low point for US all,
probably even lower.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Than losing to Japan at the World Cup, which I
was also at. Yeah, I mean that one, that just
it was, Yeah, it was a horrible day, but that
fifty seven they'll still sticks sticks in your brain the
whole time, just like I'm sure Wellington does last year
because that was a superb performance by the spring Box.
And yeah, so I think I think to to it
probably would it would be seemed like a too two draw.
(14:04):
It wouldn't be seen as favorable or unfavored, but I
think they'd win.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It went all forward it.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, well, the forty three to ten still sticks to us,
sticks in our minds, Brendan, I can assure you of that.
That's a bit more recent than the fifty seven nil
at Albany, over a decade or so ago. Now, great
to chat to you. Thanks for painting a picture for
us from a South African point of view. Whatever happens
over the next couple of weeks or so a couple
of months or so, I really hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Oh yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait. I must
have been ninety six was a blast.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I don't think I appreciated it because I was very
young as a journal But this one I'm really looking
forward to.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, Salwee, Brendan saw Wee. Thanks for joining us, mate,
Brendan now there out of South Africa with his thoughts
on this upcoming series. I just I feel as though
if I was South Africa, I'd be supremely confident. I'd
look at my team and go, you know what, we're
the best team in the world. We're playing at home
against a team with a new coaching staff who we've
(15:00):
beaten in five of the last six Test matches, including
forty three ten in New Zealand the last time we
locked horns. So they, I guess, are right to be confident,
but that just makes me want to beat them more.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I just.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Even listening to Brendan there and heck of a nice guy.
I love them, But you can South Africans think they're
going to beat us four nil. That's what they think.
What do you reckon? I mean, we've sort of been
over and over this kind of you know what would
be a successful series score and that sort of thing.
We've had that conversation. You can add to it if
you want to. But I just now want to beat
(15:38):
them more than ever.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks that'd be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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