Coach Dave Rennie is happy with the All Blacks effort in the 29-24 third test loss to South Africa in Soweto, but says they need to be more disciplined.
Ahead of their next test in Baltimore, Newstalk ZB rugby commentator Elliott Smith and NZ Herald senior rugby writer Liam Napier joined Piney to discuss what the Kiwi side could have done better.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Pine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Running ball, Leboque has numbers, Creel, Creel, Jesse Creel away
from Leroy Carter, Jesse Creel will respond straight away for
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, that was the try that took South Africa into
a 1917 lead, a lead they never relinquished. South Africa 29,
All Blacks 24. To continue our analysis... Let's bring in
the co-hosts of the Rugby Direct podcast, Newstalk ZB rugby
editor and our match commentator, Elliot Smith, and senior rugby
writer with the New Zealand Herald, Liam Napier. Thanks for
(00:46):
staying up late for us, guys. Elliot, it was 17-12
to the All Blacks when Will Jordan scored. 15 minutes later,
it's 29-17 to South Africa. What did you see happen
in that period?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What I saw happen was the All Blacks not take
advantage of the momentum they had in that game. And
the goalie had tried it. Will Jordan scored to put
them up by five points. They missed the conversion. They
head back downfield. They don't take the restart correctly. And
South Africa score from it. And they get their noses
in front. And I feel this series has been a
(01:21):
game of a series of momentum swings. When one team
has it, they're very, very hard to stop. And look
what happened in the first test when the All Blacks
snatched it. Look what happened. And the second test, when
South Africa managed to take hold of it, well, tonight,
South Africa, as soon as they got their noses in front,
refused to relent. And it was that moment, or those
key moments, that again, I think, decided the test match
(01:43):
for South Africa and consigned New Zealand to defeat.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Liam, was there anything the All Blacks could have done
differently to stymie South Africa's momentum?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Well, you could fix the scrum, but it's not an
easy fix.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
And I think that's where a lot of South Africa's
dominance came from, particularly in that second half and that
one massive mall try. When they get a roll on
South Africa, when they get their power game, they're incredibly
difficult to stop. So as Elliot mentioned, you've got to
take your chances when you have that momentum and the
All Blacks I thought in that first half they were
(02:21):
quite dominant. They had ruck speed, they had some great
ball carries from Asafa Amor and Peter Lakai, but they
probably didn't take as many chances as they would have liked,
didn't capitalise on their early yellow cards, should have been
up by more at half-time, and then the momentum switched
in the second half and they couldn't wrestle it back.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Elliot, how big an impact did Ari Sarvia's departure from
the game have?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think it was a turning point in the game,
in all honesty, Piney. He was playing some incredible rugby
to that point, scored both of the All Blacks tries
and was on track for a captain's knock. And the
kind of rugby that he was playing in the opening
half hour, he was strong. With the carry, he was
hitting rucks. He was really everywhere around the park. And
when he went off, the All Blacks just looked a
(03:11):
little lost. They didn't really regain the kind of ascendancy
that they had, even though they did go back in front,
you know, later on in the game after halftime. It
felt like they weren't quite able to play the way
they had been in that opening half hour. And there
were a variety of reasons for that. And South Africa
certainly played some better rugby after that point. But I
think you have to mark it down again as a
(03:33):
major turning point in the game. And look, it didn't
look good for Adi Sarvia. And the fact that he
went off, they just lacked a little bit of leadership,
I think, out there. Luke Jacobson took on the captaincy
for the rest of the test match. But they weren't
able to play the kind of rugby that Adi Sarvia
had them playing in the opening 30 minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Ruben Love missed three shots at goal, which would have
given the All Blacks another seven points. Liam, does that
need further examination in such a tight test match, or
did he just have an off day off the tee?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I think he'll be disappointed, Piney.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
He came into this series kicking exceptionally well, and I
don't think we've seen the best of him off the tee.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
It was difficult conditions in Soweto.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
There was a lot of wind, but that didn't really
affect the spring box, so Look, in the context of
how the game finished up, it did have a big impact,
but there were other factors in the defeat as well.
I thought the margin of defeat probably didn't reflect the
nature of the second half. The box were pretty dominant
(04:39):
on the whole, and it was a sort of late
consolation try that closed the margin of defeat.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
So I didn't think it was Ruben Love's best test.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
I'm a big advocate of his, but I thought he
was a bit A bit rattled early, he had some moments.
But after three starts at 10, I wouldn't be surprised
if the All Blacks, well, I expect them to make
some big changes next week, given the injuries, given the
toll of the series.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But I think there could be one coming at 10
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
All right, want to come to the changes in a moment.
But Elliot, the All Blacks wanted to bring fatigue into
the game. They talked about how playing at altitude might
actually be in their favour. Were they the ones, though,
the All Blacks, who were a bit gassed in the
second half?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I think there's certainly an argument for that, and
we've been used to them finishing strongly in this series,
the way that they've been able to out-muscle South Africa.
But it felt like South Africa had done some things
right to be able to conserve maybe a little bit
of energy. I think they used their bench a lot
smarter this week as well, South Africa. So the All
(05:43):
Blacks just weren't able to get on top as much
as they would have liked. And that momentum swing we
talked about earlier when South Africa– went in front, you know,
they sort of got their tails up a little bit and,
you know, it would have been easy for them, not
easy necessarily, but, you know, 17-12 down. If the All
Blacks score next, then there's a long way back to
South Africa, but they scored quickly after that and they
(06:04):
get the energy and the ascendancy heading into the final
20 minutes that the All Blacks were certainly wanting themselves.
So I think it was a game of, you know,
fine margins and small moments where, you know, it was
a turnover here or there, but ultimately... the All Blacks
just weren't able to capitalise on the big moments that
they did have during that game. And maybe in the
(06:26):
last 20 minutes, they perhaps looked a little bit gassed
compared to the South Africans who looked a lot fresher and,
as I said, made some smarter tactical substitutions than they
have in the previous two tests.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
In your analysis piece, Liam, you wrote two and a
half months into Dave Rennie's tenure, progress is clearly evident,
but so too is more evolution required. Where are the
major improvements needed?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Well, I think when you look at the box, it's
such a unique proposition, aren't they, finally, in terms of
how they play the game. This was a classic clash
of styles throughout the series, the box using their set piece,
their power game, their kicking. So I think the vulnerabilities
for the All Blacks are under the high ball. I
think that's been pretty consistent there. Discipline remains a major issue.
(07:14):
I think the penalty count was only 12-11, but some
of those penalties, just at such crucial times, that's gifted
the box field position. When the box had that early
yellow card, the All Blacks conceded four straight penalties, and
so it basically rendered the one-man advantage irrelevant.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I think that's one area.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Confirming opportunities, look, the All Blacks are creating so much.
They had 12 line breaks to five, but some of
their finishing at times isn't quite where it wants to be.
But yeah, look, there is still a lot of positives.
Two and a half months isn't a long time. And
I think Dave Rooney's done a lot with this team.
Coming over here, facing the world champions, back-to-back world champions
(07:57):
on home soil was always going to be a massive task.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
So we do have to reflect on that.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
But having won the first test at Ellis Park, to
lose the next two, they'll be hugely disappointed at this point.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
All right, let's finish by looking ahead to Baltimore and
any changes that might be expected. A question for both
of you. Maybe start with you, Elliot. What sort of
changes do you expect on top of the ones which
will be injury-enforced for the All Blacks?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, look, I'm with Liam. I think perhaps a chance
next week to have a look at another player at 10,
Richie Wong, it seems like the likely player candidate there.
Leroy Carter fell off a couple of tackles today. Wouldn't
surprise me to see maybe the All Blacks look to
bring in a power winger next week. Now, at this point,
we also don't know who is travelling and who isn't
(08:46):
because some players are going to head home. But I think,
you know, I'd like to see Asafa Omua start again.
I thought he was really, really good. The line-out was
much better than last week for most of the game.
It wasn't perfect, but it was considerably improved. So I'd
like to see him get another start. And so, look,
some minor tweaks, I think, to this All Blacks team.
(09:08):
They still haven't settled on a blindside flanker. Peter Lakai
was solid today, perhaps without being spectacular. So a lot
to mull over for Dave Rennie and co as they
take this big flight to Baltimore or Washington, D.C. You know,
not much time because they flew out midnight South African time.
(09:28):
So a lot to ponder on the plane over.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
I'd like to see guys like Amani Naraoa get a chance.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I think he impressed me on this tour.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
There is a bit of context around performing in a
midweek match compared to a test game, but I like
what he brings in terms of size and silky skills
in the back three. I think he could be good
under the high ball as well. Ethan de Groot and
Josh Lord will come back into the picture after effectively
missing two tests with HIAs. Maybe Rika Awani. comes into
(09:59):
the picture, they'll need another midfielder there as well. Cam
Roygaard's played a lot at halfback. I thought he was
really good tonight. So, yeah, I think there'll be quite
a few changes.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
You can't underestimate how much.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Three tests out of both teams. And the Springboks have
been open. It's been interesting to see the lack of
rotation from Rusty Erasmus. They've effectively treated this as a
World Cup run a knockout game, quarter semi-final. They've basically
played the same team the last two weeks, only made
(10:32):
changes because of injuries and so I expect them to
make quite a few tweaks as well.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Appreciate you both staying up for us late and appreciate
you bringing the rugby direct aura to weekend sport. Thanks
for your time.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Any time, Barney.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Thanks for the offer, Barney. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
No, thank you both for joining us. Elliot Smith and
Liam Napier, live from Johannesburg, where it's getting very late
over there. They're still working away, those two. You can
read Liam at nzherald.co.nz. Elliot Smith, of course, you'll know well,
his voice on our commentary. And they do have a podcast,
as I mentioned, Rigby Direct, very popular, one of Newstalk
ZB's most popular podcasts. So subscribe to that and get
(11:13):
the benefit of their wisdom.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Pine, listen live
to News Talk ZB, weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Pine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Running ball, Leboque has numbers, Creel, Creel, Jesse Creel away
from Leroy Carter, Jesse Creel will respond straight away for
South Africa.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, that was the try that took South Africa into
a 1917 lead, a lead they never relinquished. South Africa 29,
All Blacks 24. To continue our analysis... Let's bring in
the co-hosts of the Rugby Direct podcast, Newstalk ZB rugby
editor and our match commentator, Elliot Smith, and senior rugby
writer with the New Zealand Herald, Liam Napier. Thanks for
(00:46):
staying up late for us, guys. Elliot, it was 17-12
to the All Blacks when Will Jordan scored. 15 minutes later,
it's 29-17 to South Africa. What did you see happen
in that period?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What I saw happen was the All Blacks not take
advantage of the momentum they had in that game. And
the goalie had tried it. Will Jordan scored to put
them up by five points. They missed the conversion. They
head back downfield. They don't take the restart correctly. And
South Africa score from it. And they get their noses
in front. And I feel this series has been a
(01:21):
game of a series of momentum swings. When one team
has it, they're very, very hard to stop. And look
what happened in the first test when the All Blacks
snatched it. Look what happened. And the second test, when
South Africa managed to take hold of it, well, tonight,
South Africa, as soon as they got their noses in front,
refused to relent. And it was that moment, or those
key moments, that again, I think, decided the test match
(01:43):
for South Africa and consigned New Zealand to defeat.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Liam, was there anything the All Blacks could have done
differently to stymie South Africa's momentum?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Well, you could fix the scrum, but it's not an
easy fix.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
And I think that's where a lot of South Africa's
dominance came from, particularly in that second half and that
one massive mall try. When they get a roll on
South Africa, when they get their power game, they're incredibly
difficult to stop. So as Elliot mentioned, you've got to
take your chances when you have that momentum and the
All Blacks I thought in that first half they were
(02:21):
quite dominant. They had ruck speed, they had some great
ball carries from Asafa Amor and Peter Lakai, but they
probably didn't take as many chances as they would have liked,
didn't capitalise on their early yellow cards, should have been
up by more at half-time, and then the momentum switched
in the second half and they couldn't wrestle it back.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Elliot, how big an impact did Ari Sarvia's departure from
the game have?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think it was a turning point in the game,
in all honesty, Piney. He was playing some incredible rugby
to that point, scored both of the All Blacks tries
and was on track for a captain's knock. And the
kind of rugby that he was playing in the opening
half hour, he was strong. With the carry, he was
hitting rucks. He was really everywhere around the park. And
when he went off, the All Blacks just looked a
(03:11):
little lost. They didn't really regain the kind of ascendancy
that they had, even though they did go back in front,
you know, later on in the game after halftime. It
felt like they weren't quite able to play the way
they had been in that opening half hour. And there
were a variety of reasons for that. And South Africa
certainly played some better rugby after that point. But I
think you have to mark it down again as a
(03:33):
major turning point in the game. And look, it didn't
look good for Adi Sarvia. And the fact that he
went off, they just lacked a little bit of leadership,
I think, out there. Luke Jacobson took on the captaincy
for the rest of the test match. But they weren't
able to play the kind of rugby that Adi Sarvia
had them playing in the opening 30 minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Ruben Love missed three shots at goal, which would have
given the All Blacks another seven points. Liam, does that
need further examination in such a tight test match, or
did he just have an off day off the tee?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I think he'll be disappointed, Piney.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
He came into this series kicking exceptionally well, and I
don't think we've seen the best of him off the tee.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
It was difficult conditions in Soweto.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
There was a lot of wind, but that didn't really
affect the spring box, so Look, in the context of
how the game finished up, it did have a big impact,
but there were other factors in the defeat as well.
I thought the margin of defeat probably didn't reflect the
nature of the second half. The box were pretty dominant
(04:39):
on the whole, and it was a sort of late
consolation try that closed the margin of defeat.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
So I didn't think it was Ruben Love's best test.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
I'm a big advocate of his, but I thought he
was a bit A bit rattled early, he had some moments.
But after three starts at 10, I wouldn't be surprised
if the All Blacks, well, I expect them to make
some big changes next week, given the injuries, given the
toll of the series.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
But I think there could be one coming at 10
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
All right, want to come to the changes in a moment.
But Elliot, the All Blacks wanted to bring fatigue into
the game. They talked about how playing at altitude might
actually be in their favour. Were they the ones, though,
the All Blacks, who were a bit gassed in the
second half?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I think there's certainly an argument for that, and
we've been used to them finishing strongly in this series,
the way that they've been able to out-muscle South Africa.
But it felt like South Africa had done some things
right to be able to conserve maybe a little bit
of energy. I think they used their bench a lot
smarter this week as well, South Africa. So the All
(05:43):
Blacks just weren't able to get on top as much
as they would have liked. And that momentum swing we
talked about earlier when South Africa– went in front, you know,
they sort of got their tails up a little bit and,
you know, it would have been easy for them, not
easy necessarily, but, you know, 17-12 down. If the All
Blacks score next, then there's a long way back to
South Africa, but they scored quickly after that and they
(06:04):
get the energy and the ascendancy heading into the final
20 minutes that the All Blacks were certainly wanting themselves.
So I think it was a game of, you know,
fine margins and small moments where, you know, it was
a turnover here or there, but ultimately... the All Blacks
just weren't able to capitalise on the big moments that
they did have during that game. And maybe in the
(06:26):
last 20 minutes, they perhaps looked a little bit gassed
compared to the South Africans who looked a lot fresher and,
as I said, made some smarter tactical substitutions than they
have in the previous two tests.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
In your analysis piece, Liam, you wrote two and a
half months into Dave Rennie's tenure, progress is clearly evident,
but so too is more evolution required. Where are the
major improvements needed?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Well, I think when you look at the box, it's
such a unique proposition, aren't they, finally, in terms of
how they play the game. This was a classic clash
of styles throughout the series, the box using their set piece,
their power game, their kicking. So I think the vulnerabilities
for the All Blacks are under the high ball. I
think that's been pretty consistent there. Discipline remains a major issue.
(07:14):
I think the penalty count was only 12-11, but some
of those penalties, just at such crucial times, that's gifted
the box field position. When the box had that early
yellow card, the All Blacks conceded four straight penalties, and
so it basically rendered the one-man advantage irrelevant.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I think that's one area.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Confirming opportunities, look, the All Blacks are creating so much.
They had 12 line breaks to five, but some of
their finishing at times isn't quite where it wants to be.
But yeah, look, there is still a lot of positives.
Two and a half months isn't a long time. And
I think Dave Rooney's done a lot with this team.
Coming over here, facing the world champions, back-to-back world champions
(07:57):
on home soil was always going to be a massive task.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
So we do have to reflect on that.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
But having won the first test at Ellis Park, to
lose the next two, they'll be hugely disappointed at this point.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
All right, let's finish by looking ahead to Baltimore and
any changes that might be expected. A question for both
of you. Maybe start with you, Elliot. What sort of
changes do you expect on top of the ones which
will be injury-enforced for the All Blacks?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, look, I'm with Liam. I think perhaps a chance
next week to have a look at another player at 10,
Richie Wong, it seems like the likely player candidate there.
Leroy Carter fell off a couple of tackles today. Wouldn't
surprise me to see maybe the All Blacks look to
bring in a power winger next week. Now, at this point,
we also don't know who is travelling and who isn't
(08:46):
because some players are going to head home. But I think,
you know, I'd like to see Asafa Omua start again.
I thought he was really, really good. The line-out was
much better than last week for most of the game.
It wasn't perfect, but it was considerably improved. So I'd
like to see him get another start. And so, look,
some minor tweaks, I think, to this All Blacks team.
(09:08):
They still haven't settled on a blindside flanker. Peter Lakai
was solid today, perhaps without being spectacular. So a lot
to mull over for Dave Rennie and co as they
take this big flight to Baltimore or Washington, D.C. You know,
not much time because they flew out midnight South African time.
(09:28):
So a lot to ponder on the plane over.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
I'd like to see guys like Amani Naraoa get a chance.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I think he impressed me on this tour.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
There is a bit of context around performing in a
midweek match compared to a test game, but I like
what he brings in terms of size and silky skills
in the back three. I think he could be good
under the high ball as well. Ethan de Groot and
Josh Lord will come back into the picture after effectively
missing two tests with HIAs. Maybe Rika Awani. comes into
(09:59):
the picture, they'll need another midfielder there as well. Cam
Roygaard's played a lot at halfback. I thought he was
really good tonight. So, yeah, I think there'll be quite
a few changes.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
You can't underestimate how much.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Three tests out of both teams. And the Springboks have
been open. It's been interesting to see the lack of
rotation from Rusty Erasmus. They've effectively treated this as a
World Cup run a knockout game, quarter semi-final. They've basically
played the same team the last two weeks, only made
(10:32):
changes because of injuries and so I expect them to
make quite a few tweaks as well.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Appreciate you both staying up for us late and appreciate
you bringing the rugby direct aura to weekend sport. Thanks
for your time.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Any time, Barney.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Thanks for the offer, Barney. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
No, thank you both for joining us. Elliot Smith and
Liam Napier, live from Johannesburg, where it's getting very late
over there. They're still working away, those two. You can
read Liam at nzherald.co.nz. Elliot Smith, of course, you'll know well,
his voice on our commentary. And they do have a podcast,
as I mentioned, Rigby Direct, very popular, one of Newstalk
ZB's most popular podcasts. So subscribe to that and get
(11:13):
the benefit of their wisdom.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Pine, listen live
to News Talk ZB, weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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