This week, James McOnie from The Crowd Goes Wild joined Piney to recap the start of the All Blacks' South Africa tour, with the team's victory over the Stormers.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
On the radio show, one of my favorite times of
the week.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
How are you, mate, ah, bon sois bonjour, monsieur jesson Bean.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I'm very well, Cramc.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I take it from that that opening salvo that you're
somewhere in the south of France.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Is this?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Am I correct in that assumption?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yes, you are right.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I am in the south of France in a place
called Carcasson, which is not far from Toulouse, and as
it's a very historic place with the largest walled city
in all of Europe, and as seen in robin Hood
Prince of Thieves, it's quite a popular place to film
some movies. So if you ever see somewhere with a
(00:58):
lot of turrets, it might be Carcasson.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Wonderful. Well, it's great to have you beaming in. Hopefully
you've been keeping an eye on bits and pieces of
New Zealand sport. Did you manage to catch the All
Blacks against the Stormers? For example?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I did? I saw it. It was you know, chalk
it up.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's a start and look there were debuts as well.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Good to see Josh Jacob get on.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I think that you know, Anton Segna and Fabian Holland
did pretty well. Sam Darry keeps on improving his stocks
and Josh Mowby some good touches at fullback, which is
in you know, you got to try as well, which
is great to see.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
But look, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
It wasn't an outstanding game, but there were reasons for that.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And I do have concerns about rugby at the moment.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Do you, because I was going to ask you about that.
I'm not sure whether you caught Argentina South Africa because
that was a bit of a tough watch as well.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yes, and this is the whole thing with rugby is that,
you know, I think rugby is suffering from an identity crisis.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It doesn't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You know, when we were growing up, rugby was the
game they played in heaven and I'm not sure how
God or Saint Peter would explain the rucking back then,
the fist fights and the scrot and grabbing, but hey,
it was beloved and that had a brand. And also
nations like New Zealand and France played Champagne rugby, you know,
and that was sort of part of it as well,
(02:24):
just expressing yourself. And now it's a game of stoppages,
video ref interferences, and box kicks, and they still haven't
sorted out scrummery sets in my opinion, and most what
would you call it neutrals or casuals, are still confused
by the game.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and I guess that is one of the big challenges,
isn't it fake? I mean, rugby will always have its
die hard fans, particularly in New Zealand. You know, we
grew up watching the game. I'm going to watch the
All Blacks every single time they play. I'll tolerate all
of that stuff. I'll watch rugby because I love rugby.
But your discretionary fan, as you say, your casual observer,
will take one look at the first half of the
(03:03):
All Black Stormers, which actually took fifty one minutes to complete,
and so what's going on here?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Put it this way, Like, I love rugby as well,
so don't get me wrong, I'm all in really, But
in the same time that rugby has steadily gotten harder
to watch, rugby league has improved out of sight. You know,
they've outlawed high contact as well. They don't tolerate slowing
the ball down and the six again rule has pretty
much made monster forwards like Nelson us Off with Slim
(03:31):
Warner extinct. You know, So they're ruthless in terms of
trying to improve the game for everyone to watch, whereas
rugby hasn't been able to do anything meaningful. I don't
think to change the game. And partly that's politics and
world rugby. We don't need to get into that. But
you know the issue is that one in five rugby
games is incredible and it gives all of us hope
(03:54):
because everyone goes, wow.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Did you see that game? And then we're back, you know.
So that's that's all it's got in its favor.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But what I hope is that you know, the marketing
departments are working over time, aren't they trying to sell
them with the greatest rivalry and all that sort of stuff,
And we're all going to watch it. I'm going to
be glued to the telly can't wait to see what happens.
But I just hope, and look, I think David Renni's
showing signs of that is that we see the ball
in hand more, that we actually see teams trying to
show what they can do.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That those have sort of been the indications from this.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Dave Renni coached All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, really interesting to hear him say that as well,
because most coaches just try to win rugby matches one
way or the other in any fashion that is available
to them. Yeah, Dave Renny very early on didn't. He said, Look,
we know that that rugby is in a battle for eyeballs,
and we need to play our part, which I think
is actually a really progressive, you know, outlook for a
(04:49):
guy who lives and dies by whether his team wins
or not.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, And it's kind of interesting because I looked at
that game and it was really in the balance, and
even you know, when Peter Larco threw that nice offload
to Nero Carda, I mean could have been called back
being forward.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It was the from the line ball and.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Carter had to beat three players but the All Blacks
were really in a tussle up until then, you know,
the fat call had gone the other way, then hey,
it could have just been one of the great upsets
that we're talking about now. But hey, you know, the
last quarter against those teams, you can see some class
comes through at least, But I was a little bit concerned,
(05:29):
and I think we've talked about du prosecutive and we
don't have to go on about it. But I saw
him play so well at twelve with that setting up
that try against Auckland, just thinking, you know, sometimes rugby
isn't necessarily about saying, hey, we want the biggest player
or the player who's showing up best in stats. It
is a game when it comes down to it, you know,
(05:50):
and there's lots of players who actually can impact the
game just because they're the best at that specific moment
if you like, you know, what's put in front of them,
they can rise to the occasion. And that's where I
want to see this. What would you call it midweek
team from the All Blacks? Who are the players that
(06:11):
are going to rise to the occasion?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Me too, Me too. Can ask you about Tim Payne a
couple of months ago. If you'd set to Tim Payne,
you're going to be playing football in Paraguay, coming off
the bench on your debut and scoring an absolute banger,
he would have said, no, No, I'm going to be in
pre season with Wellington Phoenix. Isn't this an incredible tale
that because of one post on social media buy a
(06:35):
bloke in South America with a quite a few followers
that Tim Payne's life arc has changed like that.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I know it's even bigger than the movies you made.
If this was a movie, people wouldn't even believe it.
Let's say, oh no, it's just so far fetched, it's crazy.
So Tim pain this goal, just to put it mildly,
like you said, it's a banger.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
It's a worldie.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
He started the movement as well in his own half
and set the winger free.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
The winger squares it outside side the area.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Tim Payin hits it first time, curling into the top
corner or near the top corner, away from the keeper.
So first time shots I watched in most of the
World Cup. I don't think I saw a decent first
time shot like as good as Tim.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Payne's in the entire World Cup.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You know what I'm talking about, Piney no one.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
No one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Most people who can have control of the ball and
they and they banging it in you know where the
spiders live top bins. But and of course there were
some great goals carbo Verdi is it Sydney cabral You
know there's some beauties, absolute beauties. But that Tim Payin
goal was crazy, so good, and I just wonder whether.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Did the Alwhits get it right? Did we with someone
like Tim Payne.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We sort of tried, We wanted to them to sort
of calm down and say, look, just do your job,
blah blah blah. But maybe we should have done the
exact opposite and said, Tim Payin, you're you know, you've
got six million followers.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Must feel good. You take the free kicks.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yes, you know, you know, like just you go on
marauding runs up front because you the world wants to
see you, and maybe you just just because you've got
that kind of confidence that only six million followers can
give you. That just set them free. Whereas we did
this classic Kiwi thing, didn't we Nah, he's just going
to focus on his football, don't worry about him.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Wrong, That's so true.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But I keep coming back to it, you know, I
keep coming back to the Argentine influencer who was just
trying to find the least followed person at the World
Cup and he just landed on Tim Paine. It was
complete luck, complete good fortune, and it has set off
this chain of events which has led to something that
none of us, particularly Tim Pain could possibly have imagined.
(08:47):
A couple of months ago.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
No, and you and I were talking.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
We were saying, look the way only way to maximize this
because that guy was from Argentina. Most of his followers
are from Latin America, and they it was Spanish speaking,
and even the brands like remember KFCID Brazil and all
those sort of sliding dunkin Donuts agents or whatever, you know,
like big brains but based in those countries, just sliding
into his DMS and onto his comments. So you're not
(09:15):
going to reach them by playing for the Phoenix or
even going to the you know, MLS or whatever you
want to do in America.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You have to go to South America.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So he went to Paraguay, which I thought was a
bit of a dodgy landing spot because I thought, oh
Paraguay really, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
He's there doing it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
It's visible and everyone's seeing what he can do, which
is the best goal of his entire career.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, amazing stuff, amazing stuff from Tim Payne. Well, I
think that's it. Messy as they say, and you're part
of the world and au revoir.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Do the am Poney which is you're welcome. Was nothing
at all.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And by the way, I did catch up with Mike
Klamp and Nigel Gainey. If any Wellington rugby fans and
Sean Spring as well, that's a bit of a deep
cut if you're a Wellington rugby fan and they all
live in bear Ritz and they all catch up and
there's a good bunch of kiwi's there and that was
wonderful to see them.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Mike Clamp not bad on the guitar at all.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So you know, the sad thing is is that the
only lyrics I knew all from start to finish with
George Michael songs, So please don't judge me, and you
know that's all I'll say.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Maybe you could play us out with a bit of faith, because.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I gotta have.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
On the radio show, one of my favorite times of
the week.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
How are you, mate, ah, bon sois bonjour, monsieur jesson Bean.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I'm very well, Cramc.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I take it from that that opening salvo that you're
somewhere in the south of France.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Is this?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Am I correct in that assumption?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yes, you are right.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I am in the south of France in a place
called Carcasson, which is not far from Toulouse, and as
it's a very historic place with the largest walled city
in all of Europe, and as seen in robin Hood
Prince of Thieves, it's quite a popular place to film
some movies. So if you ever see somewhere with a
(00:58):
lot of turrets, it might be Carcasson.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Wonderful. Well, it's great to have you beaming in. Hopefully
you've been keeping an eye on bits and pieces of
New Zealand sport. Did you manage to catch the All
Blacks against the Stormers? For example?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I did? I saw it. It was you know, chalk
it up.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
It's a start and look there were debuts as well.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Good to see Josh Jacob get on.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I think that you know, Anton Segna and Fabian Holland
did pretty well. Sam Darry keeps on improving his stocks
and Josh Mowby some good touches at fullback, which is
in you know, you got to try as well, which
is great to see.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
But look, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
It wasn't an outstanding game, but there were reasons for that.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And I do have concerns about rugby at the moment.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Do you, because I was going to ask you about that.
I'm not sure whether you caught Argentina South Africa because
that was a bit of a tough watch as well.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yes, and this is the whole thing with rugby is that,
you know, I think rugby is suffering from an identity crisis.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
It doesn't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You know, when we were growing up, rugby was the
game they played in heaven and I'm not sure how
God or Saint Peter would explain the rucking back then,
the fist fights and the scrot and grabbing, but hey,
it was beloved and that had a brand. And also
nations like New Zealand and France played Champagne rugby, you know,
and that was sort of part of it as well,
(02:24):
just expressing yourself. And now it's a game of stoppages,
video ref interferences, and box kicks, and they still haven't
sorted out scrummery sets in my opinion, and most what
would you call it neutrals or casuals, are still confused
by the game.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and I guess that is one of the big challenges,
isn't it fake? I mean, rugby will always have its
die hard fans, particularly in New Zealand. You know, we
grew up watching the game. I'm going to watch the
All Blacks every single time they play. I'll tolerate all
of that stuff. I'll watch rugby because I love rugby.
But your discretionary fan, as you say, your casual observer,
will take one look at the first half of the
(03:03):
All Black Stormers, which actually took fifty one minutes to complete,
and so what's going on here?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Put it this way, Like, I love rugby as well,
so don't get me wrong, I'm all in really, But
in the same time that rugby has steadily gotten harder
to watch, rugby league has improved out of sight. You know,
they've outlawed high contact as well. They don't tolerate slowing
the ball down and the six again rule has pretty
much made monster forwards like Nelson us Off with Slim
(03:31):
Warner extinct. You know, So they're ruthless in terms of
trying to improve the game for everyone to watch, whereas
rugby hasn't been able to do anything meaningful. I don't
think to change the game. And partly that's politics and
world rugby. We don't need to get into that. But
you know the issue is that one in five rugby
games is incredible and it gives all of us hope
(03:54):
because everyone goes, wow.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Did you see that game? And then we're back, you know.
So that's that's all it's got in its favor.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But what I hope is that you know, the marketing
departments are working over time, aren't they trying to sell
them with the greatest rivalry and all that sort of stuff,
And we're all going to watch it. I'm going to
be glued to the telly can't wait to see what happens.
But I just hope, and look, I think David Renni's
showing signs of that is that we see the ball
in hand more, that we actually see teams trying to
show what they can do.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That those have sort of been the indications from this.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Dave Renni coached All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, really interesting to hear him say that as well,
because most coaches just try to win rugby matches one
way or the other in any fashion that is available
to them. Yeah, Dave Renny very early on didn't. He said, Look,
we know that that rugby is in a battle for eyeballs,
and we need to play our part, which I think
is actually a really progressive, you know, outlook for a
(04:49):
guy who lives and dies by whether his team wins
or not.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, And it's kind of interesting because I looked at
that game and it was really in the balance, and
even you know, when Peter Larco threw that nice offload
to Nero Carda, I mean could have been called back
being forward.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
It was the from the line ball and.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Carter had to beat three players but the All Blacks
were really in a tussle up until then, you know,
the fat call had gone the other way, then hey,
it could have just been one of the great upsets
that we're talking about now. But hey, you know, the
last quarter against those teams, you can see some class
comes through at least, But I was a little bit concerned,
(05:29):
and I think we've talked about du prosecutive and we
don't have to go on about it. But I saw
him play so well at twelve with that setting up
that try against Auckland, just thinking, you know, sometimes rugby
isn't necessarily about saying, hey, we want the biggest player
or the player who's showing up best in stats. It
is a game when it comes down to it, you know,
(05:50):
and there's lots of players who actually can impact the
game just because they're the best at that specific moment
if you like, you know, what's put in front of them,
they can rise to the occasion. And that's where I
want to see this. What would you call it midweek
team from the All Blacks? Who are the players that
(06:11):
are going to rise to the occasion?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Me too, Me too. Can ask you about Tim Payne a
couple of months ago. If you'd set to Tim Payne,
you're going to be playing football in Paraguay, coming off
the bench on your debut and scoring an absolute banger,
he would have said, no, No, I'm going to be in
pre season with Wellington Phoenix. Isn't this an incredible tale
that because of one post on social media buy a
(06:35):
bloke in South America with a quite a few followers
that Tim Payne's life arc has changed like that.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I know it's even bigger than the movies you made.
If this was a movie, people wouldn't even believe it.
Let's say, oh no, it's just so far fetched, it's crazy.
So Tim pain this goal, just to put it mildly,
like you said, it's a banger.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
It's a worldie.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
He started the movement as well in his own half
and set the winger free.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
The winger squares it outside side the area.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Tim Payin hits it first time, curling into the top
corner or near the top corner, away from the keeper.
So first time shots I watched in most of the
World Cup. I don't think I saw a decent first
time shot like as good as Tim.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Payne's in the entire World Cup.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
You know what I'm talking about, Piney no one.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
No one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Most people who can have control of the ball and
they and they banging it in you know where the
spiders live top bins. But and of course there were
some great goals carbo Verdi is it Sydney cabral You
know there's some beauties, absolute beauties. But that Tim Payin
goal was crazy, so good, and I just wonder whether.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Did the Alwhits get it right? Did we with someone
like Tim Payne.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We sort of tried, We wanted to them to sort
of calm down and say, look, just do your job,
blah blah blah. But maybe we should have done the
exact opposite and said, Tim Payin, you're you know, you've
got six million followers.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Must feel good. You take the free kicks.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yes, you know, you know, like just you go on
marauding runs up front because you the world wants to
see you, and maybe you just just because you've got
that kind of confidence that only six million followers can
give you. That just set them free. Whereas we did
this classic Kiwi thing, didn't we Nah, he's just going
to focus on his football, don't worry about him.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Wrong, That's so true.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But I keep coming back to it, you know, I
keep coming back to the Argentine influencer who was just
trying to find the least followed person at the World
Cup and he just landed on Tim Paine. It was
complete luck, complete good fortune, and it has set off
this chain of events which has led to something that
none of us, particularly Tim Pain could possibly have imagined.
(08:47):
A couple of months ago.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
No, and you and I were talking.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
We were saying, look the way only way to maximize this
because that guy was from Argentina. Most of his followers
are from Latin America, and they it was Spanish speaking,
and even the brands like remember KFCID Brazil and all
those sort of sliding dunkin Donuts agents or whatever, you know,
like big brains but based in those countries, just sliding
into his DMS and onto his comments. So you're not
(09:15):
going to reach them by playing for the Phoenix or
even going to the you know, MLS or whatever you
want to do in America.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You have to go to South America.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So he went to Paraguay, which I thought was a
bit of a dodgy landing spot because I thought, oh
Paraguay really, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
He's there doing it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
It's visible and everyone's seeing what he can do, which
is the best goal of his entire career.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, amazing stuff, amazing stuff from Tim Payne. Well, I
think that's it. Messy as they say, and you're part
of the world and au revoir.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Do the am Poney which is you're welcome. Was nothing
at all.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And by the way, I did catch up with Mike
Klamp and Nigel Gainey. If any Wellington rugby fans and
Sean Spring as well, that's a bit of a deep
cut if you're a Wellington rugby fan and they all
live in bear Ritz and they all catch up and
there's a good bunch of kiwi's there and that was
wonderful to see them.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Mike Clamp not bad on the guitar at all.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So you know, the sad thing is is that the
only lyrics I knew all from start to finish with
George Michael songs, So please don't judge me, and you
know that's all I'll say.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Maybe you could play us out with a bit of faith, because.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I gotta have.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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