August 24, 2024 • 9 mins
It was a surprise from the All Blacks camp as Leon MacDonald steps away from the coaching set up.
Former All Black and rugby analyst Jeff Wilson joins Piney to discuss what might have led to this outcome.
“I think they’re focusing on everyone being exactly on the same page.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
SO announced on Thursday around lunchtime that Leon McDonald was
leaving his role as an All Black's assistant coach. New
Zealand Rugby's media release said he and head coach Scott
Robinson have been having some robust but constructive discussions on
the approach to drive the All Blacks, but the pair
have different coaching views and both agreed it wasn't working,
(00:35):
so they've mutually agreed to part ways. Here is New
Zealand Rugby's head of the professional game, Chris Lendram, speaking
shortly after the announcement.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, well, I think, as I said, the conversations have
been going for a few weeks, and really it's probably
the intensity of preparing for chest matches we can week
out that's highlighted that they're just not quite aligned. And
as I say, they've made a really brave and bold
early decision and the best interests of the team to
(01:07):
call it now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Former All Blacks legend and co host of The Breakdown
on Sky Sport Jeff Wilson as well as Jeff was
a surprise to you when you heard the news.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Piney, absolutely, you know, like what five test matches in
we're thinking to ourselves. You know, the All Blacks were
certainly moving forward. They had a really impressive second performance
against Argentina and you were wondering how the next challenge
in South Africa was going to go. But now once
the news broke surprise, then you hear the comments coming
out of the All Blacks from Scott robertson the head coach.
(01:37):
Clearly they wanted to go in a different direction. There's
no doubt. You know they've worked before briefly at the Crusaders.
They worked together long, but we didn't always think about
you finely when they named their coaching squad and we
then saw Tarmody Allison add to the group. There's a
lot of people, a lot of voices, a lot of
information and even Razor himself that talked after after a
(02:00):
couple of test matches they weren't going out and executing
what the plans that had been training. So whether or
not they felt they needed to reduce the number of voices,
and clearly those discussions have led to this point where
we are now where it's Leo McDonald. They felt as
though it was the voice they didn't need any longer.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You've been traveling around obviously covering the All Blacks and
twenty twenty four well for a long time, but this
year in particular, Jeff, have you picked up anything you
know from being down on the sideline just observing. Have
you picked up anything in the relationship between the two
that you know in hindsight you've looked back and gone,
oh okay.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Oh no, not at all. But this is a really
high pressure environment and you know the expectations you would
have then any management for not to be noticeable. And
I've actually spoken to a couple of people in and
around the All Back and they haven't noticed anything you know,
untoward over the last month. It's clearly just like say,
a different opinion on where the game needs to go.
And also, I think one of the challenges was always
(02:56):
going to be when you've been a head coach and
then going back to being an assistant coach, and that's
what Lea McDonald was being asked to do. And you know,
you get the sense that with the person these and
the responsibilities that come as being in the All Blacks
should be to be really really clear on what your
role is and you know, with the number of coaches
they had, the amount of actual time and opportunity to
(03:16):
have influence would have been very, very small. So maybe
this has just freed up a little bit of that time.
They've reassigned some of the responsibilities and now Scott Henson
has moved across to attack and Tarmody Ellison who's gone
from contact skills, so the work around the breakdown has
gone to defense, which is always something he's been fit with.
For the Crusaders, it's just been a bit of repositioning
(03:37):
and you know, now I think they're focusing on everyone
being exactly on the same page. And as you know,
if you've got a lot of voices, very hard to
be really consistent in the messages you're trying to get.
So by the sound of things, a lot of that
voice now is going to Scott Hanson. It sounds as
though he is inside that group, is driving a lot
of that tactical work that's going on the pitch. And look,
(04:00):
I think if you talk to Scott Robertson himself, he's
been on making sure that the culture is right from
week week in and around the All Blacks. So not
some subtle changes it's going to get tested then South.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Africa are there's still too many voices.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Look, I went back and compared just just you know,
to compare what went to the Rugby World Cup last
year with the All Blacks in Foster, Jusement, Jason Yin,
Greg Beak and Spot McCloud. So you're at the same
number now. I mean that's where you've got to. I
think this has been more around, you know, I think
the assignment of those roles and it's almost like they
(04:35):
were just always a little bit too heavy. There was
just that one number two more side. You know. I
don't think they're like they've got too many there now.
I always thought they were one one over the top
to what they needed and let's just see how it
plays out now, you know, like this is I think
this has been a learning experience for Scott Robertson and
his team, you know about you know, the pressures and
(04:57):
responsibilities and just how hard it is to prepare an
All Black side to play kiss rugby.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
There were far fewer voices, you know when you were
playing for the All Blacks, But were you in environments
where there were differing views or you were getting two
different messages from a head coach and an assistant.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well we only ever had like three coaches max, so
there was and and with that became responsibilities. I was
speaking to John Hart about it over the last couple
of days, you know, like you know, virtually there was
there was two or three guys that was it, you know,
and then the senior players. And look, I played with
the vasty experience group when I first got in there,
and that's you know, you're talking about that the heart
(05:34):
of the Blues and Auckland team, right, So they themselves
had been around long enough to understand what works and
what doesn't work. And I don't think we should underestimate
that as well, is that the all back players themselves,
they do a lot of the strategizing, explaining what world
might work. And I think there's another site to this
of getting all of those opinions and work together. And
(05:56):
we've also got a new leadership group that's trying to
expand after a vast number of test matches left after
last years Rugby World Cup. So I think there's a
lot of moving pieces. But like you said, it was
very different when I played, but you see it now,
this is a machine that's squads are large. You know,
you have to be very very clear on the information
if you want to get accuracy and clarity as you're
(06:17):
going into test matches, and I think that's what they
were a little bit uncomfortable with and they've had to
move forward.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Are you worried about the disruption to the team as
they head to South Africa for two massive test matches
over the next two weekends.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Look, one of our talking points at the moment is
there's a number of guys, young guys who had never
even been to South Africa, you know who once they
went out of Super Rugby And it was not many,
but there's a few guys that haven't experienced. But I
think the benefit of what happened a couple of years
ago to the All Blacks in South Africa when there
was huge pressure on Emboss in his team, majority of
(06:55):
these players in this group starting group would have been
there and done that and experienced and seen it, and
they were able to focus, refocus and put on one
of the big best best performances I've seen from All
Black teamers. So they have to for a long long
time to win that second Test match. So I don't
think the focus for the team will be too hard.
I think there's enough guys there, and I think this
is a time we're grateful for a Sam Kine to
(07:17):
still be around, you know, whether he starts or comes
off the bench or what he might do. But I
think having his leadership, Scott Barrett returning. You know, there
was a couple of huge performances a couple of years
ago from the likes of a Tyree Lomix where they
know what to expect. These guys will be prepared, but
you know it will still be a little bit you'd
have to think it'll be a little bit uncomfortable, right,
(07:38):
just for a few days at least, going okay, how's
this going to work?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
What your gut feel on what Leon McDonald will do.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Now, regardless of what happens. You know, anyone who's been
in the all black environment, they find opportunities overseas. I mean,
he was in hot demand. Remember when one of us
was playing out. You know there's rumors floating around other
international sides at the Ruggy World Cup we're looking for
head coaches. His name was being banded around. Look, Japan
will always be an option. Guy who's got a huge
(08:07):
amount of experience I get the sense though he's got
a bit of time on his hands. I'm sure there
would have been a vast negotiation right, you know, around
his contract that he would have certainly been given to Winn.
There's gardening league or a little bit of a break.
But he'll get an opportunity to coach again soon.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right. Just before you go, Bunnings MPC carries on
no all blacks this weekend, but Hawks Bay kept the
shield last night by a penny. Three from three my
Wellington unbeaten Tasman, unbeaten Auckland. Oh and two you're enjoying
the Bunnings MPC.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Mate, I've got a fantastic game the Southternoon looking forward
to this. I've got Aukland. Canterbury and Auckland are on
the ropes. Man. They are on the ropes because I
looked at last year's table and you need to win
five games. It took five games to make the playoffs
to make the top eight. We'll've only got eight games
to go and they've got all the big guns pretty much.
They've got many who look really really strong, White Cuttle.
(09:00):
They've got to go through North Harbor, They've got to
go through Hawks Bay. If they don't get a win today, Canonbury,
she's she's some tens times in ed Eton Park, so
I'm looking forward to that. But they have plenty been good,
been good action Bok's Bay. You know they're going to
be tough to get the shield off, really hard. So yeah,
like what I'm saying. And some tellan and Rico Simpson
(09:22):
might get to go off the beach for Auckland today
Star under twenty players, So a lot to look forward to.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Good on you, Jeff. Always love chatting rugby. Thanks for
taking the time.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Always a pleasure, chess mate.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Now, thank you, Jeff. Jeff Wilson. There from the Breakdown
on Sky for more All Black of course.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks ed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
SO announced on Thursday around lunchtime that Leon McDonald was
leaving his role as an All Black's assistant coach. New
Zealand Rugby's media release said he and head coach Scott
Robinson have been having some robust but constructive discussions on
the approach to drive the All Blacks, but the pair
have different coaching views and both agreed it wasn't working,
(00:35):
so they've mutually agreed to part ways. Here is New
Zealand Rugby's head of the professional game, Chris Lendram, speaking
shortly after the announcement.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, well, I think, as I said, the conversations have
been going for a few weeks, and really it's probably
the intensity of preparing for chest matches we can week
out that's highlighted that they're just not quite aligned. And
as I say, they've made a really brave and bold
early decision and the best interests of the team to
(01:07):
call it now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Former All Blacks legend and co host of The Breakdown
on Sky Sport Jeff Wilson as well as Jeff was
a surprise to you when you heard the news.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Piney, absolutely, you know, like what five test matches in
we're thinking to ourselves. You know, the All Blacks were
certainly moving forward. They had a really impressive second performance
against Argentina and you were wondering how the next challenge
in South Africa was going to go. But now once
the news broke surprise, then you hear the comments coming
out of the All Blacks from Scott robertson the head coach.
(01:37):
Clearly they wanted to go in a different direction. There's
no doubt. You know they've worked before briefly at the Crusaders.
They worked together long, but we didn't always think about
you finely when they named their coaching squad and we
then saw Tarmody Allison add to the group. There's a
lot of people, a lot of voices, a lot of
information and even Razor himself that talked after after a
(02:00):
couple of test matches they weren't going out and executing
what the plans that had been training. So whether or
not they felt they needed to reduce the number of voices,
and clearly those discussions have led to this point where
we are now where it's Leo McDonald. They felt as
though it was the voice they didn't need any longer.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You've been traveling around obviously covering the All Blacks and
twenty twenty four well for a long time, but this
year in particular, Jeff, have you picked up anything you
know from being down on the sideline just observing. Have
you picked up anything in the relationship between the two
that you know in hindsight you've looked back and gone,
oh okay.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Oh no, not at all. But this is a really
high pressure environment and you know the expectations you would
have then any management for not to be noticeable. And
I've actually spoken to a couple of people in and
around the All Back and they haven't noticed anything you know,
untoward over the last month. It's clearly just like say,
a different opinion on where the game needs to go.
And also, I think one of the challenges was always
(02:56):
going to be when you've been a head coach and
then going back to being an assistant coach, and that's
what Lea McDonald was being asked to do. And you know,
you get the sense that with the person these and
the responsibilities that come as being in the All Blacks
should be to be really really clear on what your
role is and you know, with the number of coaches
they had, the amount of actual time and opportunity to
(03:16):
have influence would have been very, very small. So maybe
this has just freed up a little bit of that time.
They've reassigned some of the responsibilities and now Scott Henson
has moved across to attack and Tarmody Ellison who's gone
from contact skills, so the work around the breakdown has
gone to defense, which is always something he's been fit with.
For the Crusaders, it's just been a bit of repositioning
(03:37):
and you know, now I think they're focusing on everyone
being exactly on the same page. And as you know,
if you've got a lot of voices, very hard to
be really consistent in the messages you're trying to get.
So by the sound of things, a lot of that
voice now is going to Scott Hanson. It sounds as
though he is inside that group, is driving a lot
of that tactical work that's going on the pitch. And look,
(04:00):
I think if you talk to Scott Robertson himself, he's
been on making sure that the culture is right from
week week in and around the All Blacks. So not
some subtle changes it's going to get tested then South.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Africa are there's still too many voices.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Look, I went back and compared just just you know,
to compare what went to the Rugby World Cup last
year with the All Blacks in Foster, Jusement, Jason Yin,
Greg Beak and Spot McCloud. So you're at the same
number now. I mean that's where you've got to. I
think this has been more around, you know, I think
the assignment of those roles and it's almost like they
(04:35):
were just always a little bit too heavy. There was
just that one number two more side. You know. I
don't think they're like they've got too many there now.
I always thought they were one one over the top
to what they needed and let's just see how it
plays out now, you know, like this is I think
this has been a learning experience for Scott Robertson and
his team, you know about you know, the pressures and
(04:57):
responsibilities and just how hard it is to prepare an
All Black side to play kiss rugby.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
There were far fewer voices, you know when you were
playing for the All Blacks, But were you in environments
where there were differing views or you were getting two
different messages from a head coach and an assistant.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well we only ever had like three coaches max, so
there was and and with that became responsibilities. I was
speaking to John Hart about it over the last couple
of days, you know, like you know, virtually there was
there was two or three guys that was it, you know,
and then the senior players. And look, I played with
the vasty experience group when I first got in there,
and that's you know, you're talking about that the heart
(05:34):
of the Blues and Auckland team, right, So they themselves
had been around long enough to understand what works and
what doesn't work. And I don't think we should underestimate
that as well, is that the all back players themselves,
they do a lot of the strategizing, explaining what world
might work. And I think there's another site to this
of getting all of those opinions and work together. And
(05:56):
we've also got a new leadership group that's trying to
expand after a vast number of test matches left after
last years Rugby World Cup. So I think there's a
lot of moving pieces. But like you said, it was
very different when I played, but you see it now,
this is a machine that's squads are large. You know,
you have to be very very clear on the information
if you want to get accuracy and clarity as you're
(06:17):
going into test matches, and I think that's what they
were a little bit uncomfortable with and they've had to
move forward.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Are you worried about the disruption to the team as
they head to South Africa for two massive test matches
over the next two weekends.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Look, one of our talking points at the moment is
there's a number of guys, young guys who had never
even been to South Africa, you know who once they
went out of Super Rugby And it was not many,
but there's a few guys that haven't experienced. But I
think the benefit of what happened a couple of years
ago to the All Blacks in South Africa when there
was huge pressure on Emboss in his team, majority of
(06:55):
these players in this group starting group would have been
there and done that and experienced and seen it, and
they were able to focus, refocus and put on one
of the big best best performances I've seen from All
Black teamers. So they have to for a long long
time to win that second Test match. So I don't
think the focus for the team will be too hard.
I think there's enough guys there, and I think this
is a time we're grateful for a Sam Kine to
(07:17):
still be around, you know, whether he starts or comes
off the bench or what he might do. But I
think having his leadership, Scott Barrett returning. You know, there
was a couple of huge performances a couple of years
ago from the likes of a Tyree Lomix where they
know what to expect. These guys will be prepared, but
you know it will still be a little bit you'd
have to think it'll be a little bit uncomfortable, right,
(07:38):
just for a few days at least, going okay, how's
this going to work?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
What your gut feel on what Leon McDonald will do.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Now, regardless of what happens. You know, anyone who's been
in the all black environment, they find opportunities overseas. I mean,
he was in hot demand. Remember when one of us
was playing out. You know there's rumors floating around other
international sides at the Ruggy World Cup we're looking for
head coaches. His name was being banded around. Look, Japan
will always be an option. Guy who's got a huge
(08:07):
amount of experience I get the sense though he's got
a bit of time on his hands. I'm sure there
would have been a vast negotiation right, you know, around
his contract that he would have certainly been given to Winn.
There's gardening league or a little bit of a break.
But he'll get an opportunity to coach again soon.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right. Just before you go, Bunnings MPC carries on
no all blacks this weekend, but Hawks Bay kept the
shield last night by a penny. Three from three my
Wellington unbeaten Tasman, unbeaten Auckland. Oh and two you're enjoying
the Bunnings MPC.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Mate, I've got a fantastic game the Southternoon looking forward
to this. I've got Aukland. Canterbury and Auckland are on
the ropes. Man. They are on the ropes because I
looked at last year's table and you need to win
five games. It took five games to make the playoffs
to make the top eight. We'll've only got eight games
to go and they've got all the big guns pretty much.
They've got many who look really really strong, White Cuttle.
(09:00):
They've got to go through North Harbor, They've got to
go through Hawks Bay. If they don't get a win today, Canonbury,
she's she's some tens times in ed Eton Park, so
I'm looking forward to that. But they have plenty been good,
been good action Bok's Bay. You know they're going to
be tough to get the shield off, really hard. So yeah,
like what I'm saying. And some tellan and Rico Simpson
(09:22):
might get to go off the beach for Auckland today
Star under twenty players, So a lot to look forward to.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Good on you, Jeff. Always love chatting rugby. Thanks for
taking the time.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Always a pleasure, chess mate.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Now, thank you, Jeff. Jeff Wilson. There from the Breakdown
on Sky for more All Black of course.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks ed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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