The All Blacks have overcome their first test under new coach Scott Robertson.
Despite Damian McKenzie’s timed out penalty – after using up his allotted 60 seconds – the All Blacks hung on for a 16-15 win over England.
NZ Herald rugby editor Liam Napier joined Piney to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk zed B m.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Z timed out as he lined up a light shot
at goal last night. He to give him his due,
came out in front of the media on it. Here
was his postmatch reaction to what played out.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Just that's the time. I think we're allowed sixty seconds
from the time the penalties blind to win the goals kick.
So he did rush me in my last previous kick,
seid that I need to speed up, so kind of
felt like I didn't take too long in the last kick,
and then he did say something when I was in
the back of my cack and sort of just went
(00:43):
to go forward and but then it was too late.
But I'm not pointing the finger anyone. It's completely on
my showers. I've got to sort that out around my
process and just speeding things up and knowing that once
the penalty is blind, I've got sixty seconds to kick
the cack and I think, yeah, there was a lot
of relief after the we got that final penalty. Would
(01:04):
have been disastrous if we lost from from a kick
three points, So yeah, something I have to look at,
but completely on my shoulders and you know, and that
sort of said in my previous kick ten seconds and
then I had a couple of boards like kik kip,
so I'd gotten too my kicking process. And then the
last time, I can't remember exactly what was said, but
it was a round of speed up. And then as
(01:26):
I sort of happened, look up to the post and
I went to walk into well, I was on my
way to walk in and then the whistle was blind.
So yeah, again it's it's something I have to look at.
I don't think I've got a slow sort of process.
I probably feel like I've taken longer before, but it's
that's the rule, so I'm I have to sort it out.
I think it would be great if there was a
sort of a timer on the screen. You can sort
of get a bit of an idea. It's why counting
(01:48):
in my head the sixties, especially when I'm trying to
focus on my cat's not there great. So yeah, I
mean if they had what I've played in games where
there was a shot clot so if there was one
up on the screen, there'd be awesome, than can heaven?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
There you go, there's Damien McKenzie after the game last Nightey,
as I say, front it up. He didn't have to
come out and talk to the media. He did, among
them New Zealand Herald Rugby writer Liam Napier. I thought
he owned that quite well, Liam, don't you he did.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, it was very nice to hear him be so
honest and open about it. Wasn't that there were no complaints.
He wasn't trying to point the finger at anyone else
and he he did say that the referee George and
referee he spoke to him in his previous kick as well.
So as I've seen from a few Australians saying, now
you know how we feel after that Classic Leaders Though
(02:38):
finish in Melbourne a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Do you think they'll do You think they'll put a
timer on the screen. Surely that would be easy to do.
Do you think they'll do that? For Eden part?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
It does seem like a common sense decision, doesn't it.
Whether Mark Robinson gets on the phone to Nick Sawton
on this week seems like a very simple, easy request
and something that should be done not just for the
kickers and the players, but the fans of the grounds.
Now in Dunedin they put up the decisions across the
big screen, every decision that was made penalty wise, it
(03:13):
was a brief explanation of what it was for. So
it shouldn't be a big thing to have that sort
of element there so everyone knows what's going on.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
In overall terms. Did you get what you expected last
night from these two teams?
Speaker 4 (03:30):
To a degree? I think given the limited preparation the
All Blacks head, the fact that this is the biggest
sea change for the All Blacks in twenty years, they
had eighteen new management, a lot of experience, they had
a lot of new calls, very limited time to bring
everyone together from the super rugby clubs. I did expect
them to be scratchy, rusty, nervous, and they were. They
(03:54):
started probably better than I expected. And England had the
benefit of playing six tests this year, of playing Japan,
of naming pretty much the same team other than their
props that they used against Japan seven or eight days ago.
So for me, this was a real blown opportunity for England.
This was their best chance to strike their first tour
(04:16):
to New Zealand in the decades, and they had it
to a degree in the palm of their hand. They
came out of the box brilliantly in the second half.
They put the All Blacks under extreme pressure and they
just couldn't quite finish the job. I don't know if
you've done the sums pliny, but this match could have
easily been a drawer. Off Marcus Smith kicked all his kicks.
There was eight points, Damien McKenzie missed seven, including the
(04:39):
timed out penalties, so it could have easily been a
drawer and in my mind that probably would have been
a fair result.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So what got the All Blacks across the line?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I think they did well to fight through their adversity
in the second half and McKenzie did kick enough goals.
Ardie Severe was huge with a couple of turnovers on
his own line, Scott Barrett with a couple of big
counter rucks. They just they did enough. But it was
(05:10):
very squeaky, very nervous. Scott Robinson talked about hatching the
wall behind him in the coach's box and you not
being totally calm. So this was a real experience, for
first experience for that whole management team. While there is
a strong degree of continuity from the playing group, it
is a new group and I expect them to be
(05:31):
a lot better. But this was a very near thing,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It was? It was So what will be on Scott
Robertson's to do list as he hops on a plane
at some stage today, presumably jets up to Auckland. What's
on his to do list right at the top of it.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I think there's some things that Delbis will take away
from a positive perspective. Their scrum was extremely dominant without
getting the rewards where bizarre refereeing calls there. They use
them more well at times, probably not as much, but
in terms of improvements getting around the English rush defense,
the lion speed from Felix Jones, he's a former springbox
(06:10):
defense coach's coming and that rattled deal Blacks at times.
They target the second man Damien McKenzie got flattened a
couple of times Erikawani. They did score twice with McKenzie
kicking to the edge for severe recent Stevie Petterfetter skipping
out of Ben Earl's tackles to get around that rush.
But it just kept coming and so that will be
(06:33):
a huge focus. I think the breakdown England had success there.
I think Olie Lawrence and the rookie winger Emmanuel got
two turnovers each. Marrow told you got two, So increasingly
England's dominated the breakdown and the lineouts. Geel Blacks lost
three of their own throws and that's an area that
(06:53):
they really pride themselves on. So those are three areas.
I'm sure there'll be more just decision making as well.
You look at the back end of the first half.
Bill Black's played beyond the hooter inside their own half,
England and penal and they lock it up at ten
or and given the All Black dominance, they didn't deserve
to be level at halftime. So Bill Blacks should be
(07:14):
better for that hit out, But there is a lot
for them to drill into in the next seven days.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do you expect any personnel changes in the All Black
side next week?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I think the key one will be probably at half back.
TJ Petinara had that nasty twist of his knee with
Scott Barrett and the cleanouts, and I'd be very surprised
he was walking around the lobby today, didn't look too serious,
but I'd be very surprised he didn't merge for the
second half, and I don't see him participating in this
(07:44):
next test, and I do see that as quite a
blow because I felt like he was a loss and
for make Christy didn't have the same control from the
base in that second half. So I think you'll probably
see for make Christie coming at half back. If TJ
Petin is ruled out, Cortez a Artima probably on the
bench for his debut and all Blacks will potentially have
(08:05):
to call in a replace, maybe Fala Falcatava or Noah Hopm,
But outside of that, I think it will be largely
continuity and cohesion. That'scott Robertson more want. He hasn't had
loong with this team and it will be more about
getting improvements from that starting tend. The only other tweak
potentially maybe they look to indict Boden about at the back.
(08:26):
I was impressed by Stephen Pittefestter, but they did pull
him off after fifty one minutes, and part of the
reasoning given for starting Stephen Pittefestter was that Boden had
only had one match club rugby match in the past
five weeks, so that's probably something their way up. I
would also like to see a bit more punched from
Neil Black's pack, but whether they make any changes there.
(08:49):
Certainly I don't see them coming in the front row
given the way they performed.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Potentially at Blindside he can black at his fit, isn't
he could potentially come in at six.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Goody, Yeah, I think he'll be in consideration. Hasn't played
a lot of rugby this year either, but he's well liked,
disn't he by Scott Watson and Jason Ryan. I think
that's certainly a discussion point at six summer Penny Female,
I don't think you can knock his work great, but
he probably didn't deliver the consistent ball carrying, powerful presence
(09:20):
that he'd wants from that role. So I think there's
certainly discussion to be had at blind So Luke Jakibson
was on the bench, Buddies, He's not that big, powerful
prototype that you're looking for at six. So yeah, maybe
Ethan black Beetter comes in. I don't think you could
change the wings se verese was outstanding, wasn't he defensively?
(09:40):
And his work creator Mark Kala the same. So I
don't think you've seen too many changes elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
All right, And just on England you talked about being
a lost opportunity. They blew the chance to break a
long standing drought of wins in New Zealand that goes
all the way back to two thousand and three. Was
last night their best chance? Or will the way they
played last night give them confidence they can go to
the fortress at is Eden Park and went up there
(10:07):
next weekend.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We're going to expect them to take heart from that
performance and improve themselves. But this was the best chance
to catch the All Blacks on the hop to you know,
expose a team that's had such limited time together. And
I think it is there is something about Eden Park,
with your buy into the universal mystique or whatever it is,
(10:33):
there is something in eden Park that brings out the
best in the All Blacks. So I would expect Theill
Blacks to improve in the next week, to play better.
But look, I expect England to still be competitive. They're
still going to bring the rush, defense, the pressure at
the line, out the breakdown. They will still challenge the
All Blacks. But this was the best chance. And you know,
(10:55):
when you comes so close and don't get over the line,
there is a bit of a hangover from that, so
they'll have to move on pretty quickly. But I didn't know,
Jamie Jill postmatch saying you know, they were a bit
pissed off to a degree that the Blacks didn't know
their names last week, and Jimmy George when an interview
(11:16):
with the BBC was saying, look, well they'll know who
we are now. So this is a motivated England team.
They're very driven to break that history, so they'll give
it a good crack next week.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So fantastic. Well, I've had a clock running while you've
been on the air and you bang on the allocated time, Liam,
you haven't gone over it and you had no visual
que either, presumably, so well done.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
That's great. Didn't have to call him a TMO.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I didn't have to save travels mate. We'll see you
in Auckland next week.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's funny, Tom Man.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Thanks Liam, Liam Nape you there. New Zealand Herald senior
rugby writer. Always worth reading his copy, be it match
reports or analysis, insit Herald dot co, dot ez it,
or just pick up the paper if it's around where
you are and have a read.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk z B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk zed B m.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Z timed out as he lined up a light shot
at goal last night. He to give him his due,
came out in front of the media on it. Here
was his postmatch reaction to what played out.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Just that's the time. I think we're allowed sixty seconds
from the time the penalties blind to win the goals kick.
So he did rush me in my last previous kick,
seid that I need to speed up, so kind of
felt like I didn't take too long in the last kick,
and then he did say something when I was in
the back of my cack and sort of just went
(00:43):
to go forward and but then it was too late.
But I'm not pointing the finger anyone. It's completely on
my showers. I've got to sort that out around my
process and just speeding things up and knowing that once
the penalty is blind, I've got sixty seconds to kick
the cack and I think, yeah, there was a lot
of relief after the we got that final penalty. Would
(01:04):
have been disastrous if we lost from from a kick
three points, So yeah, something I have to look at,
but completely on my shoulders and you know, and that
sort of said in my previous kick ten seconds and
then I had a couple of boards like kik kip,
so I'd gotten too my kicking process. And then the
last time, I can't remember exactly what was said, but
it was a round of speed up. And then as
(01:26):
I sort of happened, look up to the post and
I went to walk into well, I was on my
way to walk in and then the whistle was blind.
So yeah, again it's it's something I have to look at.
I don't think I've got a slow sort of process.
I probably feel like I've taken longer before, but it's
that's the rule, so I'm I have to sort it out.
I think it would be great if there was a
sort of a timer on the screen. You can sort
of get a bit of an idea. It's why counting
(01:48):
in my head the sixties, especially when I'm trying to
focus on my cat's not there great. So yeah, I
mean if they had what I've played in games where
there was a shot clot so if there was one
up on the screen, there'd be awesome, than can heaven?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
There you go, there's Damien McKenzie after the game last Nightey,
as I say, front it up. He didn't have to
come out and talk to the media. He did, among
them New Zealand Herald Rugby writer Liam Napier. I thought
he owned that quite well, Liam, don't you he did.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, it was very nice to hear him be so
honest and open about it. Wasn't that there were no complaints.
He wasn't trying to point the finger at anyone else
and he he did say that the referee George and
referee he spoke to him in his previous kick as well.
So as I've seen from a few Australians saying, now
you know how we feel after that Classic Leaders Though
(02:38):
finish in Melbourne a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Do you think they'll do You think they'll put a
timer on the screen. Surely that would be easy to do.
Do you think they'll do that? For Eden part?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
It does seem like a common sense decision, doesn't it.
Whether Mark Robinson gets on the phone to Nick Sawton
on this week seems like a very simple, easy request
and something that should be done not just for the
kickers and the players, but the fans of the grounds.
Now in Dunedin they put up the decisions across the
big screen, every decision that was made penalty wise, it
(03:13):
was a brief explanation of what it was for. So
it shouldn't be a big thing to have that sort
of element there so everyone knows what's going on.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
In overall terms. Did you get what you expected last
night from these two teams?
Speaker 4 (03:30):
To a degree? I think given the limited preparation the
All Blacks head, the fact that this is the biggest
sea change for the All Blacks in twenty years, they
had eighteen new management, a lot of experience, they had
a lot of new calls, very limited time to bring
everyone together from the super rugby clubs. I did expect
them to be scratchy, rusty, nervous, and they were. They
(03:54):
started probably better than I expected. And England had the
benefit of playing six tests this year, of playing Japan,
of naming pretty much the same team other than their
props that they used against Japan seven or eight days ago.
So for me, this was a real blown opportunity for England.
This was their best chance to strike their first tour
(04:16):
to New Zealand in the decades, and they had it
to a degree in the palm of their hand. They
came out of the box brilliantly in the second half.
They put the All Blacks under extreme pressure and they
just couldn't quite finish the job. I don't know if
you've done the sums pliny, but this match could have
easily been a drawer. Off Marcus Smith kicked all his kicks.
There was eight points, Damien McKenzie missed seven, including the
(04:39):
timed out penalties, so it could have easily been a
drawer and in my mind that probably would have been
a fair result.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So what got the All Blacks across the line?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I think they did well to fight through their adversity
in the second half and McKenzie did kick enough goals.
Ardie Severe was huge with a couple of turnovers on
his own line, Scott Barrett with a couple of big
counter rucks. They just they did enough. But it was
(05:10):
very squeaky, very nervous. Scott Robinson talked about hatching the
wall behind him in the coach's box and you not
being totally calm. So this was a real experience, for
first experience for that whole management team. While there is
a strong degree of continuity from the playing group, it
is a new group and I expect them to be
(05:31):
a lot better. But this was a very near thing,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It was? It was So what will be on Scott
Robertson's to do list as he hops on a plane
at some stage today, presumably jets up to Auckland. What's
on his to do list right at the top of it.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I think there's some things that Delbis will take away
from a positive perspective. Their scrum was extremely dominant without
getting the rewards where bizarre refereeing calls there. They use
them more well at times, probably not as much, but
in terms of improvements getting around the English rush defense,
the lion speed from Felix Jones, he's a former springbox
(06:10):
defense coach's coming and that rattled deal Blacks at times.
They target the second man Damien McKenzie got flattened a
couple of times Erikawani. They did score twice with McKenzie
kicking to the edge for severe recent Stevie Petterfetter skipping
out of Ben Earl's tackles to get around that rush.
But it just kept coming and so that will be
(06:33):
a huge focus. I think the breakdown England had success there.
I think Olie Lawrence and the rookie winger Emmanuel got
two turnovers each. Marrow told you got two, So increasingly
England's dominated the breakdown and the lineouts. Geel Blacks lost
three of their own throws and that's an area that
(06:53):
they really pride themselves on. So those are three areas.
I'm sure there'll be more just decision making as well.
You look at the back end of the first half.
Bill Black's played beyond the hooter inside their own half,
England and penal and they lock it up at ten
or and given the All Black dominance, they didn't deserve
to be level at halftime. So Bill Blacks should be
(07:14):
better for that hit out, But there is a lot
for them to drill into in the next seven days.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do you expect any personnel changes in the All Black
side next week?
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I think the key one will be probably at half back.
TJ Petinara had that nasty twist of his knee with
Scott Barrett and the cleanouts, and I'd be very surprised
he was walking around the lobby today, didn't look too serious,
but I'd be very surprised he didn't merge for the
second half, and I don't see him participating in this
(07:44):
next test, and I do see that as quite a
blow because I felt like he was a loss and
for make Christy didn't have the same control from the
base in that second half. So I think you'll probably
see for make Christie coming at half back. If TJ
Petin is ruled out, Cortez a Artima probably on the
bench for his debut and all Blacks will potentially have
(08:05):
to call in a replace, maybe Fala Falcatava or Noah Hopm,
But outside of that, I think it will be largely
continuity and cohesion. That'scott Robertson more want. He hasn't had
loong with this team and it will be more about
getting improvements from that starting tend. The only other tweak
potentially maybe they look to indict Boden about at the back.
(08:26):
I was impressed by Stephen Pittefestter, but they did pull
him off after fifty one minutes, and part of the
reasoning given for starting Stephen Pittefestter was that Boden had
only had one match club rugby match in the past
five weeks, so that's probably something their way up. I
would also like to see a bit more punched from
Neil Black's pack, but whether they make any changes there.
(08:49):
Certainly I don't see them coming in the front row
given the way they performed.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Potentially at Blindside he can black at his fit, isn't
he could potentially come in at six.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Goody, Yeah, I think he'll be in consideration. Hasn't played
a lot of rugby this year either, but he's well liked,
disn't he by Scott Watson and Jason Ryan. I think
that's certainly a discussion point at six summer Penny Female,
I don't think you can knock his work great, but
he probably didn't deliver the consistent ball carrying, powerful presence
(09:20):
that he'd wants from that role. So I think there's
certainly discussion to be had at blind So Luke Jakibson
was on the bench, Buddies, He's not that big, powerful
prototype that you're looking for at six. So yeah, maybe
Ethan black Beetter comes in. I don't think you could
change the wings se verese was outstanding, wasn't he defensively?
(09:40):
And his work creator Mark Kala the same. So I
don't think you've seen too many changes elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
All right, And just on England you talked about being
a lost opportunity. They blew the chance to break a
long standing drought of wins in New Zealand that goes
all the way back to two thousand and three. Was
last night their best chance? Or will the way they
played last night give them confidence they can go to
the fortress at is Eden Park and went up there
(10:07):
next weekend.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We're going to expect them to take heart from that
performance and improve themselves. But this was the best chance
to catch the All Blacks on the hop to you know,
expose a team that's had such limited time together. And
I think it is there is something about Eden Park,
with your buy into the universal mystique or whatever it is,
(10:33):
there is something in eden Park that brings out the
best in the All Blacks. So I would expect Theill
Blacks to improve in the next week, to play better.
But look, I expect England to still be competitive. They're
still going to bring the rush, defense, the pressure at
the line, out the breakdown. They will still challenge the
All Blacks. But this was the best chance. And you know,
(10:55):
when you comes so close and don't get over the line,
there is a bit of a hangover from that, so
they'll have to move on pretty quickly. But I didn't know,
Jamie Jill postmatch saying you know, they were a bit
pissed off to a degree that the Blacks didn't know
their names last week, and Jimmy George when an interview
(11:16):
with the BBC was saying, look, well they'll know who
we are now. So this is a motivated England team.
They're very driven to break that history, so they'll give
it a good crack next week.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So fantastic. Well, I've had a clock running while you've
been on the air and you bang on the allocated time, Liam,
you haven't gone over it and you had no visual
que either, presumably, so well done.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
That's great. Didn't have to call him a TMO.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I didn't have to save travels mate. We'll see you
in Auckland next week.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's funny, Tom Man.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Thanks Liam, Liam Nape you there. New Zealand Herald senior
rugby writer. Always worth reading his copy, be it match
reports or analysis, insit Herald dot co, dot ez it,
or just pick up the paper if it's around where
you are and have a read.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk z B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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