Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zb Well.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
If anybody understands the cauldron and the physical nature of
rugby tests in South Africa, it is former All Blacks
captain Sam Kain.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Aaron Smith nice over the heat pass from Barrett for
Will Jordan. Right hand side of the park is the
skipper Sam Kaine, right hand side the All Black smill
At first try and look how much it means to them.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
But Sam Kaine also knows better than most the physical
toll elite rugby can take. And now the former All
Blacks captain and one hundred and five match All Blacks
loose forward is lending his support to a New Zealand
developed initiative aimed at improving the way concussion is managed
at every level of the game. He has become an
(00:54):
ambassador for hit Kit, a rapid response concussion kit created
by concussion specialist and founder of the Headache Clinic Helen
Tafoui to help players, coaches and families navigate the crucial
first seventy two hours after a suspected head knock at
any level of the game. Sam came's with us Good
(01:16):
Afternoon Sam, Thanks for your time, mate. What was it
about hit kit and helen Tofui's work that made you
want to get involved?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Hey, Pini, thanks having me on. You summarized it all
pretty well there in the intro, But the reason I
wanted to get involved, and it was really just because
I saw the work. I saw what she had created
and literally just flipped a message and said, well done.
I'm imagine he's going to have a really positive impact
on the community game and good on you for creating it.
(01:46):
And she messaged back saying thank you. Would you like
to be involved in helping get it out there? And
I just thought, yeah, that's it's a great opportunity. You know,
I'm happy to do my partner help try and promote
it and get it out there and hopefully you get
to a stage where sort of every rugby team in
New zeal And, right from junior footy all the way up,
(02:08):
has one on the sideline in case something happens.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Throughout your rugby career. How much did your understanding of
concussion change from when you first started playing to when
you well, I mean you're still playing, but how much
has it changed across your career?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, it's changed a lot for sure, and yeah, it
will change a lot in the next ten years too.
I think even from when I started out, there was
still protocols in place, but just our level of understanding
of it has increased massively, and I think there's been
real positive steps in the professional game. And we are
(02:45):
lucky because we've got medical experts on hand to help
us and navigate the recovery process and make sure we're
fairly well looked after. But he had the community game.
We often rely on volunteers and parents to do their best,
and this kit just allows them like peace of mind
(03:05):
with some real to your guidelines around what to do.
And that's all you want for those seventy two hours,
is to know that you've done everything you can to
help set someone up for a full recovery.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's a physical sport, it's a contact sport. That's the
attraction for a lot of people who get involved in it.
How difficult is it as a player to admit that
you've taken a knock to their head when your instinct
is just to stay on well, I think it's.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Two different knocks. If someone's taken a bad one, sometimes
they're not actually aware that they're not quite right, and
that's where you do rely on teammates, you know, people
on the sideline to pick those sort of things up.
And then there's other knocks where you're not sure or
you always you say you do know you're not quite right,
(03:53):
but you know part of you may want to try
and carry on. And it's it's almost been embedded into
the rugby culture over years. You know, like if you're
a little bit injured, you can will play on then
stay on from back in the days when you know
a player would never go off and give someone on
the bench an opportunity. But when it comes to a
(04:16):
head knock, the bravest and the most greatest thing you
can do is put your hand up and say no,
I'm not quite right and take yourself off. Because we
know from studies it's like taking a knock is one thing,
but it's to take two blows in one game can
can be a lot worse. So look, there's been twice,
(04:39):
I think in my career where I've taken a knock,
tried to play on for a couple of minutes and
realized I'm not quite right and put my hand up
and taken myself off the field. Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Do you think attitudes among players have changed, have genuinely
changed or is there still a bit of a tendency
to as you say, of you know, I'm okay, I've
taken ahead, I'll play on. Do you think there's still
a tendency to downplay concussion symptoms in some areas or
has there been major improvement.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
There's definitely been major improvement. Like it's really hard to
speak on behalf of everyone, but I know a lot
personally my attitudes towards it, certainly in the probably second
half of my career, having seen teammates have had to
retire from it. And then, yeah, I suppose it's sort
(05:28):
of a low key advocate, like if I see someone
take a knock, I'll be one of the first to
check in and make sure they are a ride or
alert someone from the sideline. So I think it has changed.
It's it's always difficult because some players are at different
stages of their careers. They might be playing for an opportunity,
they've just got an opportunity, or playing for a contracts,
(05:50):
all these sort of things, and that's where things can
be harder for some people. But the more education that
we've got out there, the more awareness and we create
around it, then hopefully will continue to trend in the
right direction.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I know every parent listening and you're probably the same.
You know, you want the best for your kids and
you don't want to put them into into potentially perilous situations,
but you want them to get involved in sport, and
rugby is a massive part of our sporting culture. Parents
I know can sometimes struggle with the decision of whether
their child should even play rugby or return to the
sport after they've taken a knock. What is your message
(06:31):
to rugby mums and dads.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, it's such an amazing sport. Well, sport in general
is great.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
The camaraderie that you get from rugby and all the
life lessons you learn, like there's you could go mountain biking,
you know, all these different supports and there's always an
element of risk and you know that and that's part
of it what makes it fun also as well. But
(07:02):
I think when it comes to the concussion where people
shouldn't be scared off by it because a large number
of cases suffering a concussion. As long as that's treated well,
it's like any other injury, your body will make a
can make a full recovery. And that's the important of
(07:23):
the hip Kat, is that the first seventy two hours
is really important. There's clear guidelines and if someone does
stuff for a concussion and you look after them well,
then there's no reason why they won't make a full recovery.
So although it's neven nice seeing a concussion or someone
affected by a blow like that, it's it can As
(07:47):
long as it's treated, then there's a good chance to
everyone makes a full recovery. I'd hate for it to
be the reason it scares people off because the the
risks that are involved are far outweighed by the benefits
and the growth that someone is likely to get they
fall in love with the game, that's the main thing.
(08:08):
As a peri and I just want my kids to
be able to fall in love with something a sport,
an activity or hobby and just really really go after it.
And if their kids steps Rugby for their kids, then
yes there's risks involved, absolutely, but there's so much, so
many benefits as.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well well said, Mate, well said, and hit Kid I
think is going to have a huge, hugely positive effect.
As you say, on the first seventy two hours after ahead,
not mate, while I've got your Speaking of physical challenges,
South Africa, the All Black's over there at the moment.
You played them sixteen times I think in test matches.
Were they genuinely the most physically challenging for you?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yeah, probably consistently the most physically challenging. I mean, like
we had veried the early in my career. We had
some really good wins over them, you know, like that,
So they're not I think at the start of the games,
like what the All Blacks are trying to play getting
back to sort of our would call our rugby DNA,
a little bit of faster tempo and trying to bring
(09:10):
a bit of fatigue back into the game. The South
Africans are like anyone to say, say, get a bit
of fatigue and the physicality drops off as well. So
a key, a key for us, I think, and hopefully
the officials allow a free flying game one of obviously
I guess the storms wasn't like that, so it didn't.
It doesn't really allow the fatigue to creep in quite
(09:31):
the same. But yeah, that physical budget at even you know,
just yea perkhum and again aren't they And it's in
those close quarters. You know, collectively, size does matter, so
(09:52):
it's a good challenge. Though, like I used to love
playing cert Africans, there's always this.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Talk about playing at altitude as well. You know, all
we've got to play at altitude. That's going to be
it has to be a lot harder, Is that true?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
It is a lot harder. Absolutely. It's the first time
you play there, I reckon that really catches you off
guard because you've never experienced anything like it. You feel unfit, yeah,
throats burning, and you're just wondering if you're going to
be able to get through. But it's like any thing hard,
once you've done it once before, been pushed through, you
know what you're capable of. So I've experienced a few
(10:27):
times both that almost quite enjoyed playing there because you
knew it was going to get hard, but you knew
you could push through. And it's not. Well, the South
Africans are immune to outsitude either. There's only a small
group of them that actually live at altitude. You know,
a lot of them don't even live in South Africa
(10:49):
these days, play there rugby in Japan or around the world.
So I don't personally, I don't see it as a big,
big advantage to them playing at outstude and if anything,
it may allow a little bit more fatigued to creep
onto the game. And that's sort of the last ten
minut of each half. And you know, as all boats,
(11:09):
we try and back ourselves and execute in those moments
when keep going. So, yeah, it's hard, but as what
it is.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, and you were part of a lot of memorable
All Blacks wins in South Africa here at World Cups,
is there one performance, one All Blacks performance that sort
of stands out as the blueprint for how to beat
them particularly over there, perhaps.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Oh, we had a lot of year. You're right, we
had some really good wins and a lot of them involved.
Some of them were at Alice Park, which is at altitude.
We'll probably the most of the ones that stick outer
at altitude actually, And same thing, you'd finished the game,
or we'd have photos and the theme room of previous
teams and we'd acknowledge teams that had gone before they'd
(12:00):
finish the game, and just pure exhaustion, like guys, hands
on knees, crouched over and just reminds you of how
deep you have to push yourself to win there. But
to your question around the blueprint, it's as if we're
it's if we're able to move the ball. As you said,
(12:21):
that bigger a little bit, bigger body. So if we
can keep them, keep them moving, keep the ball in play,
minds the downtime, and I think that that plays into
our hands a little bit, a little bit of variation
with how we play our kicking game. If the defense
is coming up hard in the midfield, We've had a
(12:43):
bit of success with some kicks in behind. So yeah,
the blueprint I think, but it's relies a wee on
the officials as well.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yes, yes, you're right there, you're right there. How's everything
going in Japan? You enjoying it?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yeah, Yeah, it's been good. It's soft season at the
moment back in New Zealand, but you head back in
about three weeks to start pre season and at three
and a half months of free season in the heat.
But yeah, one more year on my contract over there,
and we'll see we might be certainly getting closer to
the end.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
All right, We'll keep tabs on that. I've kept you
from your family for long enough. Sam, congratulations on your
involvement in hit Kit. I know it's going to have
a hugely positive impact on a lot of families around
the country. Thanks for joining us, made always good to chat.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Thanks finally, thanks for thanks for giving me on to
chat about it. As you say, I think it can
really do some awesome stuff and hopefully in sort of
five years time, it's one of those things that's sort
of up there beside the first aid kits for most families.
So yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Mate, No, thank you, mate. Sam King joining us on
News TALKSB and Weekend Sport. Hit Kit is a rapid
response concussion kit developed by concussion expert Helen Tofui, designed
to support the critical first seventy two hours after a
head injury at any level. In the kit, there is
a step by step recovery guide for days one to three,
(14:12):
a concussion red flag checklist, an instant ice pack, a
rapid absorption supplement, and a mini wound care first aid pack.
All of that is in hit Kit. It's only forty bucks.
I mean that's pretty good value, right, pretty good value.
Hit Kit dot en z is where you find out
(14:33):
more hit Kit dot en z. Great to have Sam
Kane as an advocate. Incredible, isn't it? You just saw
Helen to Foy's post about it, thought I'll just flicker
a note and say congratulations, and all of a sudden,
he's an ambassador and an advocate. Not a bad guy
to have on doing doing that. Tam Kaine is also
they're giving us the blueprint for beating the spring box.
(14:55):
Just run them around, run those big buggers around, get
them tired, induce fatigue. That's how we do it. And
thankfully Daver, any strategy is based on that. Optimism has
been the catch cry, hasn't it for dav Andy's All Blacks?
Quick rock ball, moving it through the hands, getting it wide,
(15:17):
finding space as Sam mentioned there, and he can perhaps
do this now that he's not on the All Blacks.
It does rely a little bit on the officials, and
yesterday in the tu Ropena there wasn't exactly an officiating
team that wanted the game to flow necessarily in that game.
I think that's fair to say. Hopefully it'll be better
in the Test matches, but I feel after hearing Sam
(15:40):
Kane talk one hundred test All Black former captain talk
about how you do it, and he won a lot
of Test matches over there, sort I crunched the numbers
on Sam Kine ahead of that interview. He played against
South Africa sixteen times, won ten of them, and seven
of those games he played against them were in South
Africa and he won four, So he was more often
(16:01):
a winner in South Africa than he was on the
losing side. Lot more optimistic. How optimistic do you feel
about this upcoming test series? Yesterday we spoke about about
yesterday's game. We can touch on that but tonight at
around ten o'clock. The side to face the Sharks in
Durban Wednesday morning is named by Dave Rennie, so we'll
(16:22):
have I think it will almost completely changed side. We'll
find out and I think we can all pretty much
name it the shadow side for these test matches. That's
what he's going to put out against the Sharks in
Durban on Wednesday.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
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