Newly appointed New Zealand Rugby chief executive Steve Lancaster has doubled down on the organisation’s eligibility policy, confirming returning first five-eighth Richie Mo’unga will not be selected for the All Blacks’ initial squads for the July series or the tour to South Africa.
Mo’unga has signed an 18-month contract with New Zealand Rugby (NZR) to return home after spending the past three years with Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo in Japan. The deal begins in July and runs through until the end of next year’s Rugby World Cup.
The timing of the contract means the 31-year-old must first play for Canterbury in the NPC before becoming eligible for All Blacks selection again in October. The NPC season kicks off in late July.
That means Mo’unga would miss the three tests in New Zealand against France, Italy and Ireland before the team heads to South Africa for a four-test tour, which also features midweek matches against provincial sides.
Lancaster said NZR had discussed Mo’unga’s situation internally but had not asked the board to relax the rules at the recent AGM, which require overseas-based players returning to New Zealand to play domestically before becoming eligible for the All Blacks.
Speaking to Newstalk ZB’s Jason Pine on Weekend Sport, Lancaster reaffirmed the current policy remained the best long-term option for NZR.
“This is something we regularly revisit with the board,” Lancaster said. “It’s a relevant thing for our board as governors of the game to regularly consider and reflect on.
“We haven’t asked the board to relax that policy around Richie. We think the policy works for us. It keeps our best players in New Zealand playing in our competitions.
“We’ve got some world-class players in the same position, and a number of those have committed to stay in New Zealand and play on the basis of the policy. We’ve got to think about the implications of the policy and relaxing the policy at any point in time.”
The same rules also apply to Shannon Frizell, who is currently playing alongside Mo’unga at Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo, but is set to return to New Zealand at the end of the Japan season to link up with Tasman.
Lancaster said All Blacks coach Dave Rennie wanted Mo’unga available for selection, although he had not formally requested an exemption.
When Rennie was announced as All Blacks coach in March, he was asked about the overseas selection policy and said he would love to have former All Blacks lock and test centurion Brodie Retallick available for his squad.
New All Blacks coach Dave Rennie wanted wanted Mo’unga available for selection. Photo / Dean Purcell
Retallick plays for Rennie’s club in Japan, the Kobe Kobelco Steelers.
“Dave’s very clear, he would like Richie to be available for selection because his job is to ultimately win the World Cup next year and he wants the best talent available to the All Blacks,” Lancaster said.
“That’s a really healthy tension for us to have, where we’ve got a coach who rightly has a focus on winning today and tomorrow, and then we’ve got ourselves as the administrators of the game who have to have a systems lens and a medium to long-term lens on what’s best for the game.”
While the current policy means Mo’unga will miss the initial squads for both campaigns, Lancaster said he could become available for the latter stages of the South Africa tour if injury strikes in the All Blacks squad, similar to what happened with Leicester Fainga’anuku last year.
“Once Richie’s back in New Zealand and playing and if we do have injuries, then potentially he could be eligible,” Lancaster said.
Ben Francis is an Auckland-based reporter for the New Zealand Herald who covers breaking sports news.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
New Zealand Rugby has ended its lengthy search for a
chief executive by appointing interim boss Steve Lancaster permanently to
the role. The former Crusader's Locke and longtime rugby administrator
has spent the last six months staring New Zealand Rugby
through coaching, upheaval, structural change and ongoing financial and player
retention challenges. Now with the interim tag gone, the focus
(00:36):
turns to his long term vision for the game in
New Zealand. Steve Lancaster is with us on Weekend Sports. Steve,
congratulations on the appointment. When did you first get the
indication that the board wanted you permanently in the role?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Look, it all happened pretty quickly this week, to be honest.
We had a board meeting on Wednesday and at the
start of the board meeting the board dropped it on
me that they would like me to take on the
role permanently, and we announced that the following day.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It would have been a fairly easy yes, presumably for you.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, it was. I didn't have to think about it.
Very long, so it wasn't a problem to be announcing
the following day.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You've had six months in the hot seat, if we
can call it that already. Did that period confirm for
you that this was a job you genuinely wanted long term?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, it did. I've really enjoyed the last six months,
and I've been pretty open about that with anyone that's asked.
It's just a huge privilege actually to sit in this seat,
and I felt like it's been an immense privilege for
the six months that I've had it, and I feel
really grateful that I'm out of the opportunity to keep
the seat warm for a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well as we know, you know, cheer David Kirker said,
the board conducted a wide ranging search. What do you
think ultimately convinced them that you were the right person
for the job.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm always loath to speak on behalf of the board
because that is really a question for David and the board.
But David has spoken quite openly about that over the
last forty eight hours, and what he's been said is
that the last six months, I've given the board the
opportunity to see me in the role. See how I
operate and understand my capabilities, and thankfully they've been satisfied
(02:18):
that I offer what the role requires.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What was your mindset during that time, because the interim
always just sat there at the front of your title.
Did you treat it though as a full time gig,
that this is my job, interial or not. I'm the
chief executive at the moment and that's how I'm going
to act day to day.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, I did. I very much took the mindset that
I was in the role. I didn't know how long
it would be in the role for and I wanted
to make the most of it. As I say, great privilege,
great opportunity, and so I just was very much focused
on turning up every week, doing the best job that
I could for the business, for the game, and not
focused on or worried about the outcome. Quite frankly, I
(02:58):
guess I do a lot on my days as a player,
and the mindset that most players apply, which is you
turn up every week, you focus on the process, and
you let the results take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, So the interim's gone. You are the chief
executive of New Zealand Rugby. How would you assess the
state of the organization that you are now leading.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Formally, we're in good shape right, And this is something
I'm always glad to be asked, because if you believe
everything that you read, you would think that maybe we're not.
But actually we've got a really healthy financial position. We
have incredibly strong participations in base We have over one
hundred and fifty thousand participants spread across four hundred and
seventy five plus clubs throughout the country. We've got all
(03:39):
our key appointments in place around our teams in Black
now the Black fans have started really strongly this year,
undefeated and bringing home the Pack four in the O'reiley Cup.
The all Blacks at the management team getting into their
work and we're looking forward to that. So we're in
good shape.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Can I ask you about the community game. You're deeply
invested obviously in that game. You came through the community
side of rugby. How much of your focus is going
to be on making sure that the gras game continues
to thrive, grows, you know, faces its problems head on,
which are well documented. How much your focus is going
to be on the community game.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, it's going to be a big part of my focus,
but I guess I no longer have the luxury of
that being my sole focus either. What comes with this
role is the responsibility to be throwing that all parts
of the game get the appropriate amount of focus. But
the last eight nine years for me leaving the community
game has given me really good insight into the state
(04:39):
of the game, the challenges, the opportunities. And I've also
have been and continue to be involved in the game
at a community level as well, and that keeps me
really grounded and gives me a first hand insight into
the state of the game, the opportunities and challenges that
we face.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
How healthy is the community community game, Steven? Excuse me?
What are the biggest challenges facing it?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, well, it's still healthy, right, and that's important thing
to not lose sight off. And as I said, we
still we have over one hundred and fifty tho and participants.
We have a really strong network of clubs and really
strong school participation. But we do have some challenges and
we certainly don't hide from that. Junior participation is a
really big challenge for us. We've got some rooks to
address some of the perceptions, which are actually misperceptions about
(05:24):
the game. At a junior level around risk of injury
and those types of things keeping young people, drawing young
people into the game and keeping them into the game
is an immense challenge for us. At the other end
of the spectrum, senior rugby and senior club rugby, when
players lead school and making choices about the rest of
(05:44):
their life. We want rugby and continue to participate in
rugby to be a valid choice and something that they
see is adding value in their lives and declining volunteerism.
The increasing challenges on people's disposable time and income certainly
make that hard. But again we're we're not putting our
heads in the stand, but we feel we're well positioned
to take on some of these challenges.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
As far as the best young players are concerned. Let's
say teenage players. Do you feel you're in a battle
with Rugby League to attract and retain our best young
emerging talent.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, no, we don't. And look, we're very focused on
ourselves and what we're doing here. But the reality is
that there's an immense amount of raw talent in New
Zealand that is coming through the school system through a
multitude of sports, and we're a late specialization sport. We
make no bones about that. So we encourage kids to
play as many sports as possible right up through their
(06:40):
teenage years, and we're very focused on ensuring that our
system is attractive and compelling and a clear line of
site to fulfilling their ambitions and dreams when they do
leave school. But we don't look across defense at other sports.
Were very much focused on what we do.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's go to the elite level and the retention of
your very top players, it remains an issue. Do you
believe you need to change the model around you know, okay,
let's put it on the table that you don't have
to play super rugby to play for the All Blacks?
Do you believe that you will have to evolve that
model too to fend off the huge money that's coming
(07:17):
in for maybe not our top All Black Steve, but
the ones who sit just below them in terms of
the money that's been offered to them.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
First part of your question was around the player movement.
I saw being an issue and look it as an issue.
It's something that we're constantly contend with. But it's not
a new issue, right, It's just a factive life and
professional sport that players get to a point in their
career where they either want to experience a new culture
or a new new competition or a new environment, and
that they have the opportunity to earn a significant amount
(07:46):
of money in doing that. So that's just the fact
of life in our sport, not something that's ever going
to stop or change. In terms of our approach to eligibility,
we're very clear and have a strong amount of belief
in our policy for selection to the All Blacks, which
is we want our best talent in New Zealand playing,
our competitions are visible and accessible to our rugby public,
(08:10):
and we believe that that provides the strongest space of
so much to field a competitive and winning All Blacks teams.
So no, we're not contemplating any changes to that policy.
We continually look at it, we continually scan the horizon
and the context. But it continues to bring us back
to the fact that the policy that we have is
such for purpose and it works for us. And interesting,
(08:31):
if you look around the world, your number of the
other leading rugby nations now are actually tysoning their own
eligibility policies so that there is less scope for plays
to be selected from off floor international teams.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Can I ask you about a specific case of player eligibility,
and that's Richie Moonger. He's coming home this year and
under the current rules, he'll have to play NPC before
he can be selected to play for the All Blacks,
So that as things currently stand, would rule him out
from selection for the upcoming Rugby's Greatest Rivalry Tour of
(09:04):
South Africa. Was the board asked and did you discuss
relaxing that rule and allowing him to be selected for
the South African Tour without playing in PC.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, so we have not asked the Board to do that,
but we have had a conversation about it and using
Richie as an example because it's timely and topical. But again,
this is something we regularly do revisit with the board, right,
It's a really relevant thing for our board as governors
of the game to regularly consider and reflect on. But no,
(09:36):
we haven't asked the Board to relax that policy around Richie.
As I say, we think the policy works for us.
It keeps our best players in New Zealand playing in
our competitions, and I think you've also got to think
about other players that are in the system right. So
we've got obviously, we've got some great players in the
same position, world class players, and a number of those
have committed to stay in New Zealand and playing New
(09:57):
zeal on the basis of the policy. So we've just
got to think about the implications of the policy and
of relaxing in the policy at any impoortant time.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Has Dave any asked you to relax the policy in
Richie's case, now.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
He hasn't asked us to. We've had a lot of
live conversations with Dave over the last month about the
eligibility policy. We've certainly talked about Richie, and those very clear.
He would like Richie to be available for selection right
because his job is ultimately to win the World Cup
next year and he wants the best talent available to
the All Blacks. And that's a really healthy tension for
us to have right where we've got a coach who
(10:31):
rightly has a focus on winning today and tomorrow, and
then we've got ourselves as the administrators of the game,
who have to have a systems lends in a medium
to long term lens on what's best for the game.
So it's a healthy tension They're very healthy debates that
we have been having with Dave and will continue to have,
and I think it would be be a symptom of
(10:51):
things not being right if we weren't having those discussions.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And they're only your rules, aren't they There are only
new jell in rugby rules, so you can work within them.
For example. And I don't want to ask too many
more questions about Richie Moong specifically, but if he played
a couple of games of NPC, could he then join
that tour?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, potentially he could because the policy is really clear
around players playing in New Zealand having played in the
preceding competition to be ablilible for selection. So, as I said,
the Board have considered and confirmed the policy stands as
it is, which we're very comfortable with, and that means
that Richie will not be named in the initial squads
(11:28):
for either the July Series or Rugby's Greatest Rivalry. But
once rich is back in New Zealand and playing, and
if we do have injuries, then potentially he could be eligible.
And again we've seen examples of that in recent years.
I think lester fone Andnooker would be the most recent
example when he returned from France and was selected out
of Tasman to join the All Blacks mid campaign due
(11:49):
to injuries.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Good to get that clarity, thanks Steve. Will there be
an Anzac Bleed Uslow Cup Test next year and potentially
moving forward?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I can't. I can't give you an answers to
that right now, but what I can confirm is that
it is on the table. It's something we are discussed
with Rugby Australia and we're open to it, you know,
we see the merits in it right but there are
a lot of considerations that we have to work through
in order to confirm that that will happen. You know,
(12:20):
we have to think about the implications for Super Rugby,
left to think about implications for the All Blacks and
for players, and they're you know, financial and commercial considerations
as well. So that's that's a conversation that we're having
right now, both with Rugby Australia and with our other stakeholders,
and it's a possibility we'd be in a position to
give a firm answer on that probably with a matter
(12:42):
of the coming weeks to months.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And can I ask you about the commercial side of
this role, Steve I mean, we know you're you know,
you're played to a very high level. We played Super Rugby,
deeply invested in the community game. That's been your role
over the last little while. Have you had to upskill yourself,
you know, to sit across the table from big sponsors,
multimillion dollar sponsorship contracts with the All Blacks and such like.
(13:05):
Is that something that you know that I guess I
don't want to call it a work on necessarily, but
is that an upskilling area for you?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Well, yeah, it is in some ways and in other ways
it isn't. I mean, I've been on the executive team
at Ends Rugby now since twenty twenty, so I've been
exposed to and involved in a lot of those conversations
over that time and in other executive roles that I've
had in sport over previous years. But I'm the first
to admit that my depth of experience and knowledge in
(13:34):
that space isn't as great as it is in the
game itself. But we have a really strong and capable
team here at INS. We've just appointed a new Chief
Commercial Officer and Chris Brown, who brings incredible capability to
the role and to the organization and I kind of
like this role to a bit like the captain's role
on the rugby team, right, Like the captain isn't a
(13:54):
positional expert in every position on the field, but he
has to understand enough about all the different positions on
the field to get the best out of the team.
And that's how I'm approaching this role as well.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's a good analogy just to finish. This role, as
you know, comes with huge scrutiny. How prepared are you
personally for the pressure that comes with being CEO of
New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I feel like I'm well prepared for it, right I'm
I'm fully cognizant of the responsibility that comes with the role,
the expectations this country has on the game. But I
think I've also got a good enough perspective, having been
in the game for long and tire to understand that
even when people have different views to us, or different
views to me, it comes from a place of here
and again, I think we should be worried when people
(14:38):
stop caring enough to have opinions about the game. So
I always bring that perspective to it that regardless of
what someone's viewers they're they're only offering it and thinking
about because they care enough to do so.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, it's not a bad approach. Steve. Congratulations again on
getting the role full time. I appreciate your time today,
look forward to staying in that constant touch over the
time ahead. Thanks Manning, No, thank you, Steve. Steve Lancaster
no longer interim CEO of New Zealand Rugby. He is
CEO of New Zealand Rugby. The Richie Moonger comments absolutely
(15:10):
caught my ear, and amongst all that probably yours as well.
More on that in a set. Just an observation on
that interview and the other media that I've seen and
heard Steve Lancaster do this week since he was given
the job full time. He communicates well. He's positive in
his outlook, clear and concise in his answers, which don't
(15:32):
go on for too long. He's an advocate for the game,
the game he's now overseeing. Keen to dampen down anything
with which he thinks is unfair criticism. Keen to advocate
for his game. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
I think that was the first chance I've had to
chat to Steve Lancaster as full time CEO with chatted
(15:55):
during his time as Interim CEO. But yeah, I think
he comes across well. I think that's a big part
of it. You have to be able to communicate in
this role to all sorts of different people. So I
tick there for Steve Lancaster. The Richie mwonga issue here.
Richie mcwoga will not play for the All Blacks until
(16:15):
he plays NPC. That was the rule when he re signed,
but I think there was a school of thought that
an exemption would be granted that he'd come back, and
the All Blacks are put a bit of pressure on
New Zealand Rugby's executive to go to the board and
seek an exemption for Richie Morgan to say, hey, come on, guys,
he doesn't have to play MPC. We want to take
(16:36):
him to South Africa for this massive tour, so how
about it. Well, that will not be happening. Unequivocal from
Steve Lancaster there, that won't be happening. NPC starts on
the thirtieth of July. The first game of the South
African tour is a week later, so that the team
to tour will clearly be named. Well in advance, we've
(16:59):
got the July Internationals, so the name of squad for that.
He was never really going to be in the mix
for those, But I think, as I say, there was
a school of thought that he would be given that
exemption and be able to join the team on that
tour of South Africa. That won't be happening. He could
in the case of injury, and that may well happen,
and it doesn't have to be an injury to another
(17:20):
first five. If they pick up an injury, he could
be flying across. But the board have made their position
clear and the executive led by Steve Lancaster, have clearly
not even taken it to the board. You heard him
say that the Board have made their stance clear on this.
Dave Rennie is keen for Richie to be available, of
course he is. He wants to win test matches, he
(17:41):
wants the best players available to him. But New Zealand
Rugby have been steadfast in their policy around eligibility and
this specific case, it's the right decision. It's the right
decision for two reasons. It's a position of strength. We
have a number of options at first five and two.
(18:04):
It doesn't set a precedent if they do it, because
how would those other guys Boden Barrett, Damien McKenzie, Ruben
Love and anybody else who's got designs on a black
jersey with a ten on the back feel if not
only you know, had someone just signed for a very
short period of time, which is effectively what fifteen sixteen months?
(18:25):
I think it's an eighteen month contract, comes in, doesn't
have to play MPC, go straight into the All Blacks
and then has designs on the World Cup. Richie mul
Wonga will have plenty of time to push his case
for the Rugby World Cup. He'll be available for the
Bledisloe Cup tests in October because he would have played
the MPC by then. He may well go to South
Africa because that's a long tour and guys get injured,
(18:48):
so he may well turn up there once he's played
some MPC, which, like I say, starts on July thirty,
so he'll play MPC presumably that week, so he ticks
that box and then he will be available. But this
is the right decision and it's good firm leadership. I
think from New Zealand rugby, say Dave Rennie would be
fairly convincing I'd imagine and what he wanted, but that said, Nope,
(19:13):
that's the rule and we're sticking to it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
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You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
New Zealand Rugby has ended its lengthy search for a
chief executive by appointing interim boss Steve Lancaster permanently to
the role. The former Crusader's Locke and longtime rugby administrator
has spent the last six months staring New Zealand Rugby
through coaching, upheaval, structural change and ongoing financial and player
retention challenges. Now with the interim tag gone, the focus
(00:36):
turns to his long term vision for the game in
New Zealand. Steve Lancaster is with us on Weekend Sports. Steve,
congratulations on the appointment. When did you first get the
indication that the board wanted you permanently in the role?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Look, it all happened pretty quickly this week, to be honest.
We had a board meeting on Wednesday and at the
start of the board meeting the board dropped it on
me that they would like me to take on the
role permanently, and we announced that the following day.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It would have been a fairly easy yes, presumably for you.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, it was. I didn't have to think about it.
Very long, so it wasn't a problem to be announcing
the following day.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You've had six months in the hot seat, if we
can call it that already. Did that period confirm for
you that this was a job you genuinely wanted long term?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, it did. I've really enjoyed the last six months,
and I've been pretty open about that with anyone that's asked.
It's just a huge privilege actually to sit in this seat,
and I felt like it's been an immense privilege for
the six months that I've had it, and I feel
really grateful that I'm out of the opportunity to keep
the seat warm for a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well as we know, you know, cheer David Kirker said,
the board conducted a wide ranging search. What do you
think ultimately convinced them that you were the right person
for the job.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm always loath to speak on behalf of the board
because that is really a question for David and the board.
But David has spoken quite openly about that over the
last forty eight hours, and what he's been said is
that the last six months, I've given the board the
opportunity to see me in the role. See how I
operate and understand my capabilities, and thankfully they've been satisfied
(02:18):
that I offer what the role requires.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
What was your mindset during that time, because the interim
always just sat there at the front of your title.
Did you treat it though as a full time gig,
that this is my job, interial or not. I'm the
chief executive at the moment and that's how I'm going
to act day to day.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, I did. I very much took the mindset that
I was in the role. I didn't know how long
it would be in the role for and I wanted
to make the most of it. As I say, great privilege,
great opportunity, and so I just was very much focused
on turning up every week, doing the best job that
I could for the business, for the game, and not
focused on or worried about the outcome. Quite frankly, I
(02:58):
guess I do a lot on my days as a player,
and the mindset that most players apply, which is you
turn up every week, you focus on the process, and
you let the results take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, So the interim's gone. You are the chief
executive of New Zealand Rugby. How would you assess the
state of the organization that you are now leading.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Formally, we're in good shape right, And this is something
I'm always glad to be asked, because if you believe
everything that you read, you would think that maybe we're not.
But actually we've got a really healthy financial position. We
have incredibly strong participations in base We have over one
hundred and fifty thousand participants spread across four hundred and
seventy five plus clubs throughout the country. We've got all
(03:39):
our key appointments in place around our teams in Black
now the Black fans have started really strongly this year,
undefeated and bringing home the Pack four in the O'reiley Cup.
The all Blacks at the management team getting into their
work and we're looking forward to that. So we're in
good shape.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Can I ask you about the community game. You're deeply
invested obviously in that game. You came through the community
side of rugby. How much of your focus is going
to be on making sure that the gras game continues
to thrive, grows, you know, faces its problems head on,
which are well documented. How much your focus is going
to be on the community game.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, it's going to be a big part of my focus,
but I guess I no longer have the luxury of
that being my sole focus either. What comes with this
role is the responsibility to be throwing that all parts
of the game get the appropriate amount of focus. But
the last eight nine years for me leaving the community
game has given me really good insight into the state
(04:39):
of the game, the challenges, the opportunities. And I've also
have been and continue to be involved in the game
at a community level as well, and that keeps me
really grounded and gives me a first hand insight into
the state of the game, the opportunities and challenges that
we face.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
How healthy is the community community game, Steven? Excuse me?
What are the biggest challenges facing it?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, well, it's still healthy, right, and that's important thing
to not lose sight off. And as I said, we
still we have over one hundred and fifty tho and participants.
We have a really strong network of clubs and really
strong school participation. But we do have some challenges and
we certainly don't hide from that. Junior participation is a
really big challenge for us. We've got some rooks to
address some of the perceptions, which are actually misperceptions about
(05:24):
the game. At a junior level around risk of injury
and those types of things keeping young people, drawing young
people into the game and keeping them into the game
is an immense challenge for us. At the other end
of the spectrum, senior rugby and senior club rugby, when
players lead school and making choices about the rest of
(05:44):
their life. We want rugby and continue to participate in
rugby to be a valid choice and something that they
see is adding value in their lives and declining volunteerism.
The increasing challenges on people's disposable time and income certainly
make that hard. But again we're we're not putting our
heads in the stand, but we feel we're well positioned
to take on some of these challenges.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
As far as the best young players are concerned. Let's
say teenage players. Do you feel you're in a battle
with Rugby League to attract and retain our best young
emerging talent.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, no, we don't. And look, we're very focused on
ourselves and what we're doing here. But the reality is
that there's an immense amount of raw talent in New
Zealand that is coming through the school system through a
multitude of sports, and we're a late specialization sport. We
make no bones about that. So we encourage kids to
play as many sports as possible right up through their
(06:40):
teenage years, and we're very focused on ensuring that our
system is attractive and compelling and a clear line of
site to fulfilling their ambitions and dreams when they do
leave school. But we don't look across defense at other sports.
Were very much focused on what we do.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's go to the elite level and the retention of
your very top players, it remains an issue. Do you
believe you need to change the model around you know, okay,
let's put it on the table that you don't have
to play super rugby to play for the All Blacks?
Do you believe that you will have to evolve that
model too to fend off the huge money that's coming
(07:17):
in for maybe not our top All Black Steve, but
the ones who sit just below them in terms of
the money that's been offered to them.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
First part of your question was around the player movement.
I saw being an issue and look it as an issue.
It's something that we're constantly contend with. But it's not
a new issue, right, It's just a factive life and
professional sport that players get to a point in their
career where they either want to experience a new culture
or a new new competition or a new environment, and
that they have the opportunity to earn a significant amount
(07:46):
of money in doing that. So that's just the fact
of life in our sport, not something that's ever going
to stop or change. In terms of our approach to eligibility,
we're very clear and have a strong amount of belief
in our policy for selection to the All Blacks, which
is we want our best talent in New Zealand playing,
our competitions are visible and accessible to our rugby public,
(08:10):
and we believe that that provides the strongest space of
so much to field a competitive and winning All Blacks teams.
So no, we're not contemplating any changes to that policy.
We continually look at it, we continually scan the horizon
and the context. But it continues to bring us back
to the fact that the policy that we have is
such for purpose and it works for us. And interesting,
(08:31):
if you look around the world, your number of the
other leading rugby nations now are actually tysoning their own
eligibility policies so that there is less scope for plays
to be selected from off floor international teams.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Can I ask you about a specific case of player eligibility,
and that's Richie Moonger. He's coming home this year and
under the current rules, he'll have to play NPC before
he can be selected to play for the All Blacks,
So that as things currently stand, would rule him out
from selection for the upcoming Rugby's Greatest Rivalry Tour of
(09:04):
South Africa. Was the board asked and did you discuss
relaxing that rule and allowing him to be selected for
the South African Tour without playing in PC.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, so we have not asked the Board to do that,
but we have had a conversation about it and using
Richie as an example because it's timely and topical. But again,
this is something we regularly do revisit with the board, right,
It's a really relevant thing for our board as governors
of the game to regularly consider and reflect on. But no,
(09:36):
we haven't asked the Board to relax that policy around Richie.
As I say, we think the policy works for us.
It keeps our best players in New Zealand playing in
our competitions, and I think you've also got to think
about other players that are in the system right. So
we've got obviously, we've got some great players in the
same position, world class players, and a number of those
have committed to stay in New Zealand and playing New
(09:57):
zeal on the basis of the policy. So we've just
got to think about the implications of the policy and
of relaxing in the policy at any impoortant time.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Has Dave any asked you to relax the policy in
Richie's case, now.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
He hasn't asked us to. We've had a lot of
live conversations with Dave over the last month about the
eligibility policy. We've certainly talked about Richie, and those very clear.
He would like Richie to be available for selection right
because his job is ultimately to win the World Cup
next year and he wants the best talent available to
the All Blacks. And that's a really healthy tension for
us to have right where we've got a coach who
(10:31):
rightly has a focus on winning today and tomorrow, and
then we've got ourselves as the administrators of the game,
who have to have a systems lends in a medium
to long term lens on what's best for the game.
So it's a healthy tension They're very healthy debates that
we have been having with Dave and will continue to have,
and I think it would be be a symptom of
(10:51):
things not being right if we weren't having those discussions.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And they're only your rules, aren't they There are only
new jell in rugby rules, so you can work within them.
For example. And I don't want to ask too many
more questions about Richie Moong specifically, but if he played
a couple of games of NPC, could he then join
that tour?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, potentially he could because the policy is really clear
around players playing in New Zealand having played in the
preceding competition to be ablilible for selection. So, as I said,
the Board have considered and confirmed the policy stands as
it is, which we're very comfortable with, and that means
that Richie will not be named in the initial squads
(11:28):
for either the July Series or Rugby's Greatest Rivalry. But
once rich is back in New Zealand and playing, and
if we do have injuries, then potentially he could be eligible.
And again we've seen examples of that in recent years.
I think lester fone Andnooker would be the most recent
example when he returned from France and was selected out
of Tasman to join the All Blacks mid campaign due
(11:49):
to injuries.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Good to get that clarity, thanks Steve. Will there be
an Anzac Bleed Uslow Cup Test next year and potentially
moving forward?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I can't. I can't give you an answers to
that right now, but what I can confirm is that
it is on the table. It's something we are discussed
with Rugby Australia and we're open to it, you know,
we see the merits in it right but there are
a lot of considerations that we have to work through
in order to confirm that that will happen. You know,
(12:20):
we have to think about the implications for Super Rugby,
left to think about implications for the All Blacks and
for players, and they're you know, financial and commercial considerations
as well. So that's that's a conversation that we're having
right now, both with Rugby Australia and with our other stakeholders,
and it's a possibility we'd be in a position to
give a firm answer on that probably with a matter
(12:42):
of the coming weeks to months.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And can I ask you about the commercial side of
this role, Steve I mean, we know you're you know,
you're played to a very high level. We played Super Rugby,
deeply invested in the community game. That's been your role
over the last little while. Have you had to upskill yourself,
you know, to sit across the table from big sponsors,
multimillion dollar sponsorship contracts with the All Blacks and such like.
(13:05):
Is that something that you know that I guess I
don't want to call it a work on necessarily, but
is that an upskilling area for you?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Well, yeah, it is in some ways and in other ways
it isn't. I mean, I've been on the executive team
at Ends Rugby now since twenty twenty, so I've been
exposed to and involved in a lot of those conversations
over that time and in other executive roles that I've
had in sport over previous years. But I'm the first
to admit that my depth of experience and knowledge in
(13:34):
that space isn't as great as it is in the
game itself. But we have a really strong and capable
team here at INS. We've just appointed a new Chief
Commercial Officer and Chris Brown, who brings incredible capability to
the role and to the organization and I kind of
like this role to a bit like the captain's role
on the rugby team, right, Like the captain isn't a
(13:54):
positional expert in every position on the field, but he
has to understand enough about all the different positions on
the field to get the best out of the team.
And that's how I'm approaching this role as well.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's a good analogy just to finish. This role, as
you know, comes with huge scrutiny. How prepared are you
personally for the pressure that comes with being CEO of
New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I feel like I'm well prepared for it, right I'm
I'm fully cognizant of the responsibility that comes with the role,
the expectations this country has on the game. But I
think I've also got a good enough perspective, having been
in the game for long and tire to understand that
even when people have different views to us, or different
views to me, it comes from a place of here
and again, I think we should be worried when people
(14:38):
stop caring enough to have opinions about the game. So
I always bring that perspective to it that regardless of
what someone's viewers they're they're only offering it and thinking
about because they care enough to do so.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, it's not a bad approach. Steve. Congratulations again on
getting the role full time. I appreciate your time today,
look forward to staying in that constant touch over the
time ahead. Thanks Manning, No, thank you, Steve. Steve Lancaster
no longer interim CEO of New Zealand Rugby. He is
CEO of New Zealand Rugby. The Richie Moonger comments absolutely
(15:10):
caught my ear, and amongst all that probably yours as well.
More on that in a set. Just an observation on
that interview and the other media that I've seen and
heard Steve Lancaster do this week since he was given
the job full time. He communicates well. He's positive in
his outlook, clear and concise in his answers, which don't
(15:32):
go on for too long. He's an advocate for the game,
the game he's now overseeing. Keen to dampen down anything
with which he thinks is unfair criticism. Keen to advocate
for his game. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
I think that was the first chance I've had to
chat to Steve Lancaster as full time CEO with chatted
(15:55):
during his time as Interim CEO. But yeah, I think
he comes across well. I think that's a big part
of it. You have to be able to communicate in
this role to all sorts of different people. So I
tick there for Steve Lancaster. The Richie mwonga issue here.
Richie mcwoga will not play for the All Blacks until
(16:15):
he plays NPC. That was the rule when he re signed,
but I think there was a school of thought that
an exemption would be granted that he'd come back, and
the All Blacks are put a bit of pressure on
New Zealand Rugby's executive to go to the board and
seek an exemption for Richie Morgan to say, hey, come on, guys,
he doesn't have to play MPC. We want to take
(16:36):
him to South Africa for this massive tour, so how
about it. Well, that will not be happening. Unequivocal from
Steve Lancaster there, that won't be happening. NPC starts on
the thirtieth of July. The first game of the South
African tour is a week later, so that the team
to tour will clearly be named. Well in advance, we've
(16:59):
got the July Internationals, so the name of squad for that.
He was never really going to be in the mix
for those, But I think, as I say, there was
a school of thought that he would be given that
exemption and be able to join the team on that
tour of South Africa. That won't be happening. He could
in the case of injury, and that may well happen,
and it doesn't have to be an injury to another
(17:20):
first five. If they pick up an injury, he could
be flying across. But the board have made their position
clear and the executive led by Steve Lancaster, have clearly
not even taken it to the board. You heard him
say that the Board have made their stance clear on this.
Dave Rennie is keen for Richie to be available, of
course he is. He wants to win test matches, he
(17:41):
wants the best players available to him. But New Zealand
Rugby have been steadfast in their policy around eligibility and
this specific case, it's the right decision. It's the right
decision for two reasons. It's a position of strength. We
have a number of options at first five and two.
(18:04):
It doesn't set a precedent if they do it, because
how would those other guys Boden Barrett, Damien McKenzie, Ruben
Love and anybody else who's got designs on a black
jersey with a ten on the back feel if not
only you know, had someone just signed for a very
short period of time, which is effectively what fifteen sixteen months?
(18:25):
I think it's an eighteen month contract, comes in, doesn't
have to play MPC, go straight into the All Blacks
and then has designs on the World Cup. Richie mul
Wonga will have plenty of time to push his case
for the Rugby World Cup. He'll be available for the
Bledisloe Cup tests in October because he would have played
the MPC by then. He may well go to South
Africa because that's a long tour and guys get injured,
(18:48):
so he may well turn up there once he's played
some MPC, which, like I say, starts on July thirty,
so he'll play MPC presumably that week, so he ticks
that box and then he will be available. But this
is the right decision and it's good firm leadership. I
think from New Zealand rugby, say Dave Rennie would be
fairly convincing I'd imagine and what he wanted, but that said, Nope,
(19:13):
that's the rule and we're sticking to it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
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