October 5, 2025 • 32 mins
In this week's Business Panel, Nick was joined by "The Law Lady" Property Law specialist Danielle Allen-Sutton and Real Estate Consultant at Lowe & Co Realty Anji Foster.
They discussed their businesses, their experiences in the property market and advice for buyers and sellers. They gave their thoughts on the future of Wellington and Hutt housing, and how new announcements by the government are impacting it.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every second Monday, we bring a couple of well known
Wellingtonians into the studio and talk business, talk about what
we can make better, what we can do better, how
can we create more things for our city or our area.
Property law specialists they call her the law Lady. Danielle
Allan Sutton joins us, good morning, good morning, it's been
(00:34):
a while.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hes indeed happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Happy to have you here, great to have you here.
Tell us what the law Lady means. I love the idea,
I love the marketing and the sales thing. Tell us
more about the law Lady.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, essentially, I wanted a name that was going to
be catchy and easy to remember. Any other firms in
my experience that I've worked for or worked with usually
a combination of the partner's names, and you don't know
whether they are an architect and accountant or a law firm.
I don't think there's any question if people know what
we do, and we specialize just in property. And also
(01:10):
we don't try our hand at every type of law.
No wills, no estate.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Work, just buy a seller house, and come to us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Buying, selling, refinancing and the occasional occupation right agreement. So
people selling their home and going into retirement villages.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Can I ask you if I can get a job
there or do you have to be a woman?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I do get asset a lot. Actually it's unintentional, but
we are all women. There's five of us at the moment,
but we're open to taking on maybe the law.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Lad We're open to it. Angie Foster, well known Wellington
real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Good morning, thank you, good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Let's talk quickly about your idea of your social media stuff,
because this has come to my attention. I'm not much
of it. I'm not a huge social media person, but
I have seen yours and your sons and I love them.
I think it's a great idea for getting into your community.
Is that the idea behind it?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, totally. I mean, there's, to be honest, not that
many people want to see real estate agents on their
social media feed. So for a long time I've been
trying to use social media to actually just bring good
bits of information or things outside of buying and selling houses,
just to kind of engage with people. And when James
(02:23):
and I started working together. Supporting local really spoke to
both of us. So every single week we go out
to a shop, cafe, bar, restaurant, whatever it might be
in Wellington, whatever you fancy, whatever we fancy. Yeah, and
we do have a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Do you do any negative ones? Because they're always so damn.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Positive, We just might put a little bit less behind
the boost of that particular one. But no, I mean,
it's it's all supporting businesses that are trying their very best.
Even if we haven't had the best meal there, or
it wasn't the best selection of counterfood. We're not going
to focus on the negatives, just trying sort of highlight
what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
How does it work that people bring you up and
say social media?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I like, we would love people to actually give us
some sort of you know, invitations to come and see
their businesses or cafes or whatever, so that we could
help highlight them. At the moment, it's pretty much so Balam.
My daughter is also a part of the team. She's
behind the camera, she does all of our reels. It's
all about family absolutely. So one of us will have
(03:26):
thought about where we might want to go. It could
be that we have seen something on social about that
particular place already.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We've heard about.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It, you know, bumped into someone in the supermarket and
they've said, hey, I've just opened up this new cafe
whatever it might be. One of us in the team
will say, hey, I reckon, we should go here this week,
and if it's a place that doesn't open till four
like some places, then maybe we'll do a dinner and
then we just go along. Bala gets your camera out,
films little bits of it, and then you know they're
(03:54):
all less than sixty seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
They and they look blooming good, the ones I've seen.
Danielle the law lady, I kind of can't get this
out of my head that it's all woman And what
I feel uncomfortable is a male coming to do my
conveyancing with you. If I know that it's all women around,
I suppose you have to ask me that question.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I spoke, yeah, well, and that was a consideration when
I picked the name. I did ask male friends whether
that would be intimidating or something that I would consider
when they were choosing a law for them. But I
think in this day and age, it really doesn't matter
what sex you are for who and who's acting for you.
As your lawyer with you just want the best person
for the job and can do it in the timeframes
(04:39):
that you require, which in property law is probably the
most important aspect. They want someone who's responsive and can
turn around a contract review within twenty four hours, and
if they can't, they're going to let you know that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Right, And I feel I have a female lawyer. I'm
quite happy to put it out there. I have a
female lawyer for the first time in my life, and
I feel far more comfortable. Even though I had the
best lawyers in the world before, I feel more comfortable.
I feel more like like they understand my problems better
being a female. Do you recommend's right?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Potentially it could also the comfort level could come down
to the way that we interact with clients, So it
can I try and be used less jargon and keep
it really day to day language, as if I'm having
a conversation with a friend about the property market or
what I'd suggest they do when putting an offer on
a property. It can be intimidating when dealing with a
(05:33):
lawyer if you can't understand half of the words that
they're using, and.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
They are kind of nerdy, aren't they lawyers.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, I'll be the first. I'm a nerd, so they are.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I mean lawyers are nerdy. But let's talk about Wellington businesses.
They're dealing with high rents and earthquake, prome buildings rules
and insurance costs. Daniel's got to start with you. How
are these pressures changing the property market for you? When
you when you're refinancing and looking stuff, is it becoming
more difficult? Is there more things put in your to
stop it rather than saying yes.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, definitely, particularly in case of apartments. So you're in
the Wellington CBD. The rising insurance costs. That's if they
can get insured at all for the building that has
to be covered by the body corporate of the development.
And if the costs go up, that means the body
corporate levees go up. And when you're applying for finance
to purchase an apartment, one of the first things they
(06:26):
look at is serviceability, and the costs of the body
corporate levees are going to be a big factor in
whether you can service the mortgage. So it eliminates a
lot of buyers that are a low deposit your first
home buyers, or are using equity out of their existing
home because they're going to have to have a lot
more income to be able to service an apartment purchase.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Right as you're nodding your head away, there is I mean,
you're agreeing with everything Danielle said it. I mean, do
you think that the law change which they're bringing in,
or the change they bring in is going to help?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I do, I do. I mean I think you know,
the MBS ratings as they've been have been challenging because
a lot of them are broad and basic assessments made
by the Council without even stepping foot in a building.
And I understand why they needed to be conservative, but
on some buildings, you know, James and I just sold
one recently where the council MBS rating on it was
(07:21):
thirty four percent, But the body corporate had actually had
their own report done, you know, and it was done
by a well known engineering firm and it all came
back at one hundred percent, So.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
On hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Yeah, So when you've got that kind of variation, it
shows that probably for a lot of the buildings around Wellington,
the Council have been incredibly conservative with these broad and
basic MBS ratings, which then have this massive role on
effect for the people that are living there already, whose
body corporate levees go shooting up because of the insurance costs,
and then a real put off for anyone else actually
(08:00):
buying into those buildings. So it becomes sort of a
bit of a you know, a noose around the neck
of the current owners. So I think that the relaxing
around that will be a good thing for little Wellington.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Can I bring you and Daniel on that? Do you
reckon it's going to make it any easier, because I mean,
it's all very well. The government saying that that now
is fine, it's all fantastic, But will that make any
difference to the banks and the insurance companies.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
It should do, because the insurance costs well some buildings
that were unable to be insured before, which essentially made
the apartments unsaleable. You couldn't give them away. Who's going
to buy property that needs a couple hundred thousand dollars
remedial works and can't get insurance, whereas those some of
those properties if captured by the I believe there's three
thy eight hundred apartment buildings in Wellington were grouped in
(08:46):
that in the article that I read so that that
are now not going to be earthquake prone. So those
property owners essentially had a property they couldn't sell and
it was worth nothing over night. It's now saleable again
because it can get insurance.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So but do you think banks will be freer straight
away or do you think this is all going to
take a bit of time before.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I think it'll be a case by case basis. It
usually is with apartments because there's so much more due
diligence they have to consider.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So they can people still borrow on apartments because I
mean I know that in my case when I bought
the apartment, I had to put my house, family home
up as well, you know, because and.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
The banks will always want as much security as possible,
So if you've got an existing home or a company,
they're going to ask for cross guarantees and your leaf
leg if they can. So that's why it's more of
a case by case basis. But yes, you can still
be lending on apartments.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Angie, are you feeling it's freeing up? I mean, as
your phone suddenly started ringing, it's only a week old.
But do you feel it as well?
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, I've definitely not noticed any impact of that yet.
So I think that will just sort of roll out slowly.
There'll be a lot of people who are totally oblivious
to this fact at the moment, and you know, so
there will be a real education process where we're meeting
buyers at properties and you know, talking them through what
those changes actually mean. So no changes at this point, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I know that you guys would have sat around because
you have your weekly meetings and stuff. I mean, this
would have been discussed at some length. What is the
general vibe with your organization about it?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I think just one of general positivity that you know,
there's going to be a whole lot of buildings in
Wellington that we're almost impossible to sell before that will
now hopefully become more saleable, particularly for those owners that
are living in there at the moment. I think, well,
that's that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Let's take a point before we get into that conversation
that real estate consultant Low and Co Realty Angie Foster
and Law Properly Law Specialists, the law Lady Danielle Allen
Sutton join us for our business panel this morning. I
want to know how hard it is angie to actually
get deals over the line? Is it when the financial
(10:52):
times are that much harder? Are people looking for better
deals than people when they're selling they still think their
house is worth what it once was. No, no one
likes seeing their house go from one point five million
to one point two Is it tough? You're not in
your head?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think it is pretty tough at the moment. I
mean it has been tough er. I think one of
the changes at the moment is probably a lot of
homeowners have now recognized and accepted to a degree that
their properties are not worth what they were in twenty
twenty and twenty twenty one. So it had been you know,
through twenty twenty two. We came back from holidays January
(11:29):
twenty twenty two, our first open homes, it was like
where is everyone?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
We literally fell.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Off the side of a cliff with the market. And
so it was at that time trying to explain to
clients why offers weren't coming in, why they were coming
in so much lower than what they were expecting. That
was a challenging time. So I think twenty twenty two
and maybe a little bit into twenty three was a
bit of a sort of a recalibration phase, whereas I
think now, you know, particularly with the new rateable values,
(11:56):
when they came out where everyone was like, oh my gosh,
my property has gone back in value twenty five percent,
it was like, well it did it did that a
couple of years ago actually, but sure, if that's how
much evidence unique.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Both of you. So think about this, Danielle, when I
come to you, how much importance do people still pay?
When I grew up, it was the government valuation, yes,
you know, was what you valued your house out Now
do people still look at it?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I think they probably do. Even though a lot of
agents will say, hey, look you are r V, your QV,
your CV, your GV, whatever you want to call it
is just what your rates are based on. It is
still a figure that has put out there attached to
your property that does say from an independent source, this
is where we see the value, and so it is
quite hard for people to absolutely separate out from that figure.
(12:42):
So it is a guide. Sometimes coincidentally it's quite accurate.
Quite often it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Though, yeah, quite often it's not. Daniel I'm going to
ask you the same question because I mean, legally, people
are coming to you and they're saying, my house worth
all this, and they're showing you the offer that they've
got and they're saying, but you know this was worth
a lot more, and how do how do you relate
to that?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Well, it's more from an instead of the vendor's perspective.
From the buyer's perspective, especially first time buyers. They are
very naive to the process and they incorrectly come to
us as their lawyer for purchase price advices and what
to put in the offer. We don't advise anything regarding
what to offer it on the property, only the conditions
(13:26):
terms of the agreement, things like.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That, did they come to you before they make the offer.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
They meant to? Yes, they meant to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I've never done that. I've always done it the other
way around. I just make the offer to the lawyer
and say this is what I've offered. Help help help.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, Well, the idea, the ideal client would contact us
before that as they're starting their search for a property,
so that they're already signed up and had their AML complete.
That takes time, and we can't act for a client
unless we've onboarded them correctly the AML.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That's that security stuff a money laundering stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Anti money laundering, all fun stuff, or it can all
be done electronically now, so it is a pretty smooth process.
But it just if they have that done before they
find a property and want to put an offer, and
it just makes it faster at the other end. And
we do say we like to have forty eight hours
notice before an offer is being submitted. In the Heart
Valley in particular, a lot of the properties are first
marketed by deadline sale or tender. I'm not sure if
(14:19):
it's the same in Wellington, Aerjie. So that really helps
us because we've all got a date that everyone's working
to the mortgage broker, the bank, the lawyer and the
real estate agent, so it's not as a surprise for
the buyer.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
See. Something that really surprised me doing a property deal
a year ago was the amount of connection there is
between the land agent and the lawyer. I mean I
would have thought, well, nothing to do with that agent. Well,
but you have a lot of connection with the legal people,
don't you, agent.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, I mean it is a little bit of a
case by case basis because you know, yes, if you
are working with a solicitor who enjoys that kind of
relationship as well, but some just don't. So it really
does depend who the solicitor is that either the purchaser
or the vendor is working with.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And that's something we try on purpose to maintain is
good contact and include the real estate agent acting on
the transaction and all correspondence between ourselves and the other
side's lawyer. And I only know how important is because
I was a real estate agent before I was a lawyer.
And it's really annoying if you don't know what's going on.
(15:25):
If there's been price reductions negotiated or agreements side agreements
made after the contract was signed, those wouldn't need to
be necessarily done through the real estate agent, so unless
the lawyer has looped the agent and they have no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Now I keep hearing this because I obviously still talk
to a lot of people. I hear this magical figure
of a million dollars. If you're selling a property, you
know around the million dollars. It's a quick and it's
an easy deal. Banks like it, you know, everyone likes it.
Am I right or I'm I wrong? Daniel, I'm looking
at you first.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I've heard it, Heart Valley. We're a bit probably live
a million dollars and the upper heart would via high
end property. I'd say it's more closer to that between
eight and nine hundred.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, But I mean that there is a magical figure
that everyone sort of seems to work a little bit easier,
am I right?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, definitely, And I'd say it's eight for feen.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And a million dollars in town.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, I think that's probably right. There's always a glass ceiling,
so getting getting someone to feel comfortable paying seven digits
on a price versus six as a job and the
two million dollar bracket and the three million dollar brackets
all the same. But I think anything sub million is
where we are busiest at the moment, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I really want to ask you one really quick question
before we go to the news break, Daniel and coming
with you. What can make things better? What can make
things easier and better for people buying a house and
working with agents and legal people if.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
They're organized, and that's not just the client themselves, it's everyone.
Realist agent has all the paperwork ready before the house
goes to the market, so it can just be a
seamless process from when they want to put an offer
into when the property settles.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Angie, what can make it things better?
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I think communication is number one, because I think particularly
for not home sellers, but home buyers, they maybe feel
like they need to keep their cards pretty close to
their chest with an agent. But the more we know,
the more we can help. So I think communication.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Am I going to ask you one really really quick questions?
Goo getting yelled at by my producers. Were looked at
it by my producers. Do clients trust their agents?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Daniel, No, No, Angie, that's a shame.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
It's a shame. It's a shame to hear. I mean,
I'd say that that probably would be the average average
approach by most sellers, would to be feeling a bit
stand offish with their agent. But I would hope that's
not the case with my clients.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I trust you, Angie, and I trust the agent that
I dealt with a couple of months ago. So there
you go. I mean, I think you can't do business
with people you can't trust, can you.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It's It's the same goes for lawyers as well.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Not ever, it's an industry thing, not a personal attack.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
No, I think, I mean, I've if I can't trust
you if you can't trust your lawyer, you're in a
lot of trouble. And if you can't trust your real
estate age, you're in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I think people probably come into the relationship with some
skepticism and then it's you know, it's over to us
to make sure that that it is.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How can you not trust Angel Angie Foster. Angie is
a very well known Wellington real estate consultant with Low
and Co. And Danielle is the law lady, a lawyer
that does mostly property stuff or property stuff in Upper Heart.
What about of a Wellington person? I mean everything's done
by computer an email. Can't people actually have you as
(18:41):
a lawyer if they were in Wontington?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, and we service clients all the way you know,
Auckland and down south because nowadays you don't actually have
to meet in person to sign paperwork. Can all be
down via radio call or info track for electronic signing.
And if there's a stat deck that needs witnessing, if
we can't do it in person, they can go to
their local JP and get it signed.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And sent to us so you can do business with it.
Same with you, Angie. People will be doing business one
sell their property and investment property and Wellington more over
the country, they can call you and still do the deal.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yeah, Danielle and I were just talking about this earlier,
that that sort of COVID time really brought about their
comfort with electronic signing, that you don't have to be
there put your initials on something. So we deal with
a lot of clients and buyers who are not based
in Wellington, or sometimes even they are, but they haven't
got the time to call and to dott and across
(19:31):
something themselves. So yeah, I mean to hear work with
people not in them I.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Want to get to what we're thinking about how we're
feeling about Wellington in a minute. But I just wanted
to ask you something that that's been sort of become
prevalent again lately, capital gains tax. And as you'll start
with you, I personally think capital gains tax is only
years away, not a lifetime away. Years away. I mean,
I think we're only one of very few countries in
(19:57):
the OECD that doesn't have some form of capital gains tax. R.
What's your thoughts and what are your clients telling you what?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, I mean I don't hear many clients talking about it.
It's unlikely to impact on your family home, and I
don't know that for sure obviously, but most of the time, yeah,
when you look at capital gains tax, it will probably
apply to your second home, so your batch or an
investment property. And you're right, I mean I think that,
you know, we are probably behind a lot of the
(20:24):
other countries that have already implemented this years ago. And
I'm sure it's just around the corner as well.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Danielle, what are they talking about in law words about
capital gains tax? Do you think it'll come in?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, I've always been a bit confused by this conversation
because to me, we already have capital gains tax. It's
just not called that. So if you have an investment
property or anything other than a main home, and you
sell it within the bright line period, you have to
pay tax on the profits.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
It already exists, yeah, on a period of time. But
you I mean, you know, if you kept it for
the certain amount of time for the blue line and
then you go and justin since.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I've been a lawyer, that time period has changed three
times with the change of government, So I went from
five years to ten years down to two years, so
you've really got to, especially if you're a prevalent property
buyer and sell it, you really have to keep your
finger on the pulse with those time frames because you
could because you could get called out if you sell
(21:22):
within that bright line period.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So you, I mean, you obviously deal with a lot
of people that are flickers or movers that just buy
and sell. And do they ever think about it? Do
they talk about it? Do they think that if they
actually held a property for a period of time. I'm
looking at you, too, angy on this. Well, if I
hold it in another six months, I don't have to
pay tax. Is that ever in the conversation?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Not for me.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It is in our conversations, but usually that's factored in
at the office stage, before they've even secured the property.
They're factoring in as one of the costs, the tax,
the tax. Yeah, I don't think it would be typical
for a property flipper to purposely hold on to a
property just so they could.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's what I sort of thinking about it. But I
wait another six months and then I won't have to
pay the tax. Do they not think like that? They
just think it's time to flick it on. I'll pay
the tax.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Usually they're pretty heavily ticked up finance wise. So and
second tier and third tier lenders are involved. So every
month you're holding onto the properties, costing you a significant
amount of money.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can can you just mention something that I haven't heard
for a long long time? Second tier lenders. I meant,
no such thing as second tier leader.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
There's plenty.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, so people are doing deals with second
tier leader.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It's how I bought my first house with a second
tier lender. So if you how does it work? It's
just in my mind, second is anyone other than the
mainstream banks. If you can't get finance with the mainstream banks,
your mortgage brokers more than likely going to have a
contact at one of the second tier lenders and they'll
put your application in front of them. It just they
have a few more hoops to jump through, but it
(23:01):
helps our first time buyers that wouldn't fit the mainstream criteria.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You're not in. I would have thought that you wouldn't
have sold a house in the last three or four
years for second tier lenders.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Oh no, definitely they're becoming more and more common. I
think people are feeling more comfortable with them that it
does cost more. Their interest rates are higher, but often well,
I mean, I think if you so, you can get
a four point four to nine. Now with the mainstream bank,
I think second tier lenders and I'm having a guess
at this, but you're probably closer to six percent.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
The last mortgage documents I saw a second teier lender
where at seven seven. So they're not insanely more than.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Most people would think that's livable if they can't get
finance from a main bag.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
They're also far more open to doing interest only terms,
whereas most mainstream banks will want a P and I loan,
So you'll actually find that even though you're paying a
higher interest rate, if it's interest only, it's probably about
the same. It's what you be with a mainstream bank
on a P and I.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now I know I won't mention any names, Daniel, but
I know one of the main banks, and we might
be in a building pretty close to it that actually
are doing a lot of interest only stuff. At the moment,
are the numbers as much as we're hearing or not.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
We don't really see that end of the five Once
we've secured the property and signed the mortgage documents. With
the client. They don't really come back to us unless
they're changing banks, So the interests only side of it
would be negotiated direct with the bank.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
With Angie and Danielle. And you're going to start with
you with us. I mean, let's talk about Wellington. Let's talk.
I mean, there's been a lot of negativity for a
few years and everyone's feeling down. Everybody wants to be positive,
and everybody wants to get things moving. What are we
doing right and what are we doing wrong in Wellington
right now?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Well, I think one of the things we're may be
doing wrong is hoping that some new meal will come
in and fix everything and there'll be rainbows the next
day and we will be feeling better and maybe you know,
not taking as much personal responsibility for turning things around.
The more business owners that I've spoken to about how
they are doing, I get the feeling. And I don't
(24:57):
know if this is because it's the people I'm surrounding
myself with, but I get the feeling that there is
a ground swell out there of people, you know, really
wanting to lift Wellington out of the that we have
been in. And I think that's how we will do it.
It's not going to be one person coming in as
mayor that is going to change everything's it's us all
actually taking some personal responsibility and accountability for you know,
(25:19):
just being better citizens of this city and going out
and you know, as we are doing supporting local, which
I know is not necessarily simple for everyone if you
haven't got the money to go out to a local cafe.
But there's so many other ways you can support local.
There are so many organizations that would take you know,
two three hours of your volunteer time to help them
(25:39):
in their project. So there's so many other ways, you know,
outside of financial support for business, that we can all
be actually contributing to turning this around.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I know you don't want to talk about the political thing,
but I can guarantee and I've hosted a couple of
your organizations as well as other real estate organization functions,
and they are all talking political. But everyone's got a
bit of a yawn on, isn't. I mean, it's one
week away from a council election and we're not excited.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
No, I don't think there's much excitement, So that's not
the word i'd put on it. I mean, one thing
I do know is speaking to a lot of homeowners
who have been sitting back going you know, this is
not a great time to sell. If we put our
house on the market now, we'll lose so much money.
The mayor is being raised by quite a few people
as a beacon of light, you know, and you change. Yeah, yeah,
and so, and I think it can be that if
(26:29):
there's enough people that feel that whoever comes in, and
you know, it's maybe looking fairly obvious who will come in,
but whoever comes in is hopefully going to have already
that's at a ground swell of us being like a
new mayor, a new change, you know, a new chapter
for Wellington, and maybe that will help. But it's not
(26:49):
going to be just the mayor doing you and.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You're putting it down to us as individuals do Yeah. Difference, Yeah, absolutely, Danielle.
Now I know you're a hut check check proud hut check. Right.
I don't think there's going to be a change in
the in the leadership of of Upper Heart, But I mean,
Hupper Hearts had an amazing time of it lately, hasn't it.
(27:11):
It's been I mean, compared to Wellington, it's been bloody buoyant.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I'd say, yeah, even thriving, and that's thanks to we've
got lots of new developments, so the likes of Walls
Full of State and then Brutown, So you've got a
draw for people from the city to come out to
Upper Hut, where as it used to be the other
way around. You'd wait for the weekend and head out
from the Heart into the city and it's just a
(27:37):
different pace than in the city. So you've got the
lots of walks and more lifestyle activities that are easily
accessible for everyone, and it literally is twenty minutes to
get out there. So yeah, I'd say Upper Heart is
if we could maintain this kind of growth, it's only
looking positive for the future.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Down to one man, though. One man's doing a lot
of them. Yeah, and he hate to be I mean
I love to be it. Don't get me wrong. I'm
not going to have a crackative. But you've got one
developer that's so strong and made a whole city grow.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Indeed, yep, and I've personally lived in three of his developments.
Another Hut.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, can you get the check out our Alpa Hut?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You'd have to ask someone who's left but I don't
think so. Personally.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Well, I remember your mother coming into town for about
six months and going straight back out there. I always
wondered with I always thought, once you left the hut,
you might actually leave the hut.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But no, I don't believe so.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, neck what makes it so special.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's the sense of community I find Wellington. Wellingtonian might
think it's a small place, but when I come into
the city, it's a whole new world and I can't
understand here where id knows each other with it being
so big. But in Upper Heart and Lower Heart as well,
it's a really close community and your wave each morning
to your neighbor. You can it's quite old school like that.
(29:02):
You can go and ask for eggs from someone down
the street and to me it's safe, whereas I don't
necessarily get that same feeling in the city.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Okay, tell me what the people of Upper Hearted telling you.
Do you think that mister Guppy will stay on it.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I'd be shocked if he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, property law specialist, the law lady, the lady of
the law lady. I'm reinventing your name now. Danielle Sutton,
Danielle Allan Sutton, real estate agent, consultant at agent, still
old fashioned real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And I still say that too, is dear. I just
think that's what people kind of think of us as agent. What,
of course we're not.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
You're consultants at Low and Co. Angie Foster, Right, Angie,
I'm going to start with you today. Right, someone very
very special comes into town, right, and you're driving out
to the airport to pick them up. You're thinking, I've
got a couple of hours to spell before I put
them in their hotel room. What am I going to
do with them? Well?
Speaker 4 (29:55):
My two aspects of Wellington that I find to be
magical are our waterfront and our native birds. And both
my kids would laugh at me saying that I've become
quite the twitcher in my latter years.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
What's a twitcher?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Have you not heard of?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Twitch?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Like a bird watcher, which I'm you know, I'm not.
I'm not all in it. I even got the you know,
the binoculars and all that sort of stuff. I don't
even know what half of them are. But I do
love the birds that we have in Wellington City. That's
just an incredible predator Free Wellington, an amazing organization, but
one of the places I would take my guest would
be Zelandier because I think that's such an incredible experience
(30:33):
for people. And you don't even have to be a
big bird watcher, a twitcher, a twitcher, I think anyone
would appreciate. It's like being out in nature with you know,
some of the most amazing native birds all around you.
And you know, I live in Wellington and you know,
literally about thirteen doors up from Courtney Place and our
garden is filled with karaka, towey fantails, kingfishes. So that's
(30:58):
a pretty remarkable thing for me for Wellington. The other
thing would be our waterfront. You know, anywhere on the
waterfront for a walk around, whether it's Obay Beach, whether
it's grabbing a bike to eat down at at the
waterfront restaurant. I think that's a really special part of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Very that sounds exciting. Twitter, Danielle, tell me you hadn't
heard of Twitter.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I had heard of twitcher.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Excuse me for big eggur he it all the time now, Yeah,
I'm going to use it all the time. Now. So
you've got you've made the big trip from Upper Hutton
to the city, so you've had to go through the
smog to get the airport. You've picked up this very
very special person. What are you going to do with them?
Get them hit the hell out of one agent as
quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Well, yeah, we wouldn't be. I wouldn't be dropping them
at a hotel in the city. I'd most likely bring
them out with us at home. We're not known for
our hotels in a nupper hut or motels, but we've
got plenty of evmbs in spare room for them to
stay in. But on the way out we'd have to
stop at Brutown for drinks and a barbecue, and depending
(31:58):
on the age of the guests, whether we're doing go
karting or the trampoline park or the escape room, and
ideally going for a walk along the Heart rivertrail, depending
on how that long they can walk for I like
to do a tae weekend here.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Wow, that's amazing, two completely different things to do. Property
law specialists, the law lady Danielle Allen Sutton and Angie Foster,
the real estate consultant or agent as i'd like to
call them. Thank you both for giving up your time
on a Monday morning and coming best of luck. Let's
hope that this coming summer is a great and successful
summer for all of us.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Very good. Thanks Man.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Every second Monday, we bring a couple of well known
Wellingtonians into the studio and talk business, talk about what
we can make better, what we can do better, how
can we create more things for our city or our area.
Property law specialists they call her the law Lady. Danielle
Allan Sutton joins us, good morning, good morning, it's been
(00:34):
a while.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hes indeed happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Happy to have you here, great to have you here.
Tell us what the law Lady means. I love the idea,
I love the marketing and the sales thing. Tell us
more about the law Lady.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, essentially, I wanted a name that was going to
be catchy and easy to remember. Any other firms in
my experience that I've worked for or worked with usually
a combination of the partner's names, and you don't know
whether they are an architect and accountant or a law firm.
I don't think there's any question if people know what
we do, and we specialize just in property. And also
(01:10):
we don't try our hand at every type of law.
No wills, no estate.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Work, just buy a seller house, and come to us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Buying, selling, refinancing and the occasional occupation right agreement. So
people selling their home and going into retirement villages.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Can I ask you if I can get a job
there or do you have to be a woman?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I do get asset a lot. Actually it's unintentional, but
we are all women. There's five of us at the moment,
but we're open to taking on maybe the law.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Lad We're open to it. Angie Foster, well known Wellington
real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Good morning, thank you, good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Let's talk quickly about your idea of your social media stuff,
because this has come to my attention. I'm not much
of it. I'm not a huge social media person, but
I have seen yours and your sons and I love them.
I think it's a great idea for getting into your community.
Is that the idea behind it?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, totally. I mean, there's, to be honest, not that
many people want to see real estate agents on their
social media feed. So for a long time I've been
trying to use social media to actually just bring good
bits of information or things outside of buying and selling houses,
just to kind of engage with people. And when James
(02:23):
and I started working together. Supporting local really spoke to
both of us. So every single week we go out
to a shop, cafe, bar, restaurant, whatever it might be
in Wellington, whatever you fancy, whatever we fancy. Yeah, and
we do have a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Do you do any negative ones? Because they're always so damn.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Positive, We just might put a little bit less behind
the boost of that particular one. But no, I mean,
it's it's all supporting businesses that are trying their very best.
Even if we haven't had the best meal there, or
it wasn't the best selection of counterfood. We're not going
to focus on the negatives, just trying sort of highlight
what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
How does it work that people bring you up and
say social media?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I like, we would love people to actually give us
some sort of you know, invitations to come and see
their businesses or cafes or whatever, so that we could
help highlight them. At the moment, it's pretty much so Balam.
My daughter is also a part of the team. She's
behind the camera, she does all of our reels. It's
all about family absolutely. So one of us will have
(03:26):
thought about where we might want to go. It could
be that we have seen something on social about that
particular place already.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We've heard about.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
It, you know, bumped into someone in the supermarket and
they've said, hey, I've just opened up this new cafe
whatever it might be. One of us in the team
will say, hey, I reckon, we should go here this week,
and if it's a place that doesn't open till four
like some places, then maybe we'll do a dinner and
then we just go along. Bala gets your camera out,
films little bits of it, and then you know they're
(03:54):
all less than sixty seconds.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
They and they look blooming good, the ones I've seen.
Danielle the law lady, I kind of can't get this
out of my head that it's all woman And what
I feel uncomfortable is a male coming to do my
conveyancing with you. If I know that it's all women around,
I suppose you have to ask me that question.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I spoke, yeah, well, and that was a consideration when
I picked the name. I did ask male friends whether
that would be intimidating or something that I would consider
when they were choosing a law for them. But I
think in this day and age, it really doesn't matter
what sex you are for who and who's acting for you.
As your lawyer with you just want the best person
for the job and can do it in the timeframes
(04:39):
that you require, which in property law is probably the
most important aspect. They want someone who's responsive and can
turn around a contract review within twenty four hours, and
if they can't, they're going to let you know that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Right, And I feel I have a female lawyer. I'm
quite happy to put it out there. I have a
female lawyer for the first time in my life, and
I feel far more comfortable. Even though I had the
best lawyers in the world before, I feel more comfortable.
I feel more like like they understand my problems better
being a female. Do you recommend's right?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Potentially it could also the comfort level could come down
to the way that we interact with clients, So it
can I try and be used less jargon and keep
it really day to day language, as if I'm having
a conversation with a friend about the property market or
what I'd suggest they do when putting an offer on
a property. It can be intimidating when dealing with a
(05:33):
lawyer if you can't understand half of the words that
they're using, and.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
They are kind of nerdy, aren't they lawyers.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, I'll be the first. I'm a nerd, so they are.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I mean lawyers are nerdy. But let's talk about Wellington businesses.
They're dealing with high rents and earthquake, prome buildings rules
and insurance costs. Daniel's got to start with you. How
are these pressures changing the property market for you? When
you when you're refinancing and looking stuff, is it becoming
more difficult? Is there more things put in your to
stop it rather than saying yes.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, definitely, particularly in case of apartments. So you're in
the Wellington CBD. The rising insurance costs. That's if they
can get insured at all for the building that has
to be covered by the body corporate of the development.
And if the costs go up, that means the body
corporate levees go up. And when you're applying for finance
to purchase an apartment, one of the first things they
(06:26):
look at is serviceability, and the costs of the body
corporate levees are going to be a big factor in
whether you can service the mortgage. So it eliminates a
lot of buyers that are a low deposit your first
home buyers, or are using equity out of their existing
home because they're going to have to have a lot
more income to be able to service an apartment purchase.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Right as you're nodding your head away, there is I mean,
you're agreeing with everything Danielle said it. I mean, do
you think that the law change which they're bringing in,
or the change they bring in is going to help?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I do, I do. I mean I think you know,
the MBS ratings as they've been have been challenging because
a lot of them are broad and basic assessments made
by the Council without even stepping foot in a building.
And I understand why they needed to be conservative, but
on some buildings, you know, James and I just sold
one recently where the council MBS rating on it was
(07:21):
thirty four percent, But the body corporate had actually had
their own report done, you know, and it was done
by a well known engineering firm and it all came
back at one hundred percent, So.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
On hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Yeah, So when you've got that kind of variation, it
shows that probably for a lot of the buildings around Wellington,
the Council have been incredibly conservative with these broad and
basic MBS ratings, which then have this massive role on
effect for the people that are living there already, whose
body corporate levees go shooting up because of the insurance costs,
and then a real put off for anyone else actually
(08:00):
buying into those buildings. So it becomes sort of a
bit of a you know, a noose around the neck
of the current owners. So I think that the relaxing
around that will be a good thing for little Wellington.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Can I bring you and Daniel on that? Do you
reckon it's going to make it any easier, because I mean,
it's all very well. The government saying that that now
is fine, it's all fantastic, But will that make any
difference to the banks and the insurance companies.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
It should do, because the insurance costs well some buildings
that were unable to be insured before, which essentially made
the apartments unsaleable. You couldn't give them away. Who's going
to buy property that needs a couple hundred thousand dollars
remedial works and can't get insurance, whereas those some of
those properties if captured by the I believe there's three
thy eight hundred apartment buildings in Wellington were grouped in
(08:46):
that in the article that I read so that that
are now not going to be earthquake prone. So those
property owners essentially had a property they couldn't sell and
it was worth nothing over night. It's now saleable again
because it can get insurance.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So but do you think banks will be freer straight
away or do you think this is all going to
take a bit of time before.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I think it'll be a case by case basis. It
usually is with apartments because there's so much more due
diligence they have to consider.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So they can people still borrow on apartments because I
mean I know that in my case when I bought
the apartment, I had to put my house, family home
up as well, you know, because and.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
The banks will always want as much security as possible,
So if you've got an existing home or a company,
they're going to ask for cross guarantees and your leaf
leg if they can. So that's why it's more of
a case by case basis. But yes, you can still
be lending on apartments.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Angie, are you feeling it's freeing up? I mean, as
your phone suddenly started ringing, it's only a week old.
But do you feel it as well?
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, I've definitely not noticed any impact of that yet.
So I think that will just sort of roll out slowly.
There'll be a lot of people who are totally oblivious
to this fact at the moment, and you know, so
there will be a real education process where we're meeting
buyers at properties and you know, talking them through what
those changes actually mean. So no changes at this point, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I know that you guys would have sat around because
you have your weekly meetings and stuff. I mean, this
would have been discussed at some length. What is the
general vibe with your organization about it?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I think just one of general positivity that you know,
there's going to be a whole lot of buildings in
Wellington that we're almost impossible to sell before that will
now hopefully become more saleable, particularly for those owners that
are living in there at the moment. I think, well,
that's that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Let's take a point before we get into that conversation
that real estate consultant Low and Co Realty Angie Foster
and Law Properly Law Specialists, the law Lady Danielle Allen
Sutton join us for our business panel this morning. I
want to know how hard it is angie to actually
get deals over the line? Is it when the financial
(10:52):
times are that much harder? Are people looking for better
deals than people when they're selling they still think their
house is worth what it once was. No, no one
likes seeing their house go from one point five million
to one point two Is it tough? You're not in
your head?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think it is pretty tough at the moment. I
mean it has been tough er. I think one of
the changes at the moment is probably a lot of
homeowners have now recognized and accepted to a degree that
their properties are not worth what they were in twenty
twenty and twenty twenty one. So it had been you know,
through twenty twenty two. We came back from holidays January
(11:29):
twenty twenty two, our first open homes, it was like
where is everyone?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
We literally fell.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Off the side of a cliff with the market. And
so it was at that time trying to explain to
clients why offers weren't coming in, why they were coming
in so much lower than what they were expecting. That
was a challenging time. So I think twenty twenty two
and maybe a little bit into twenty three was a
bit of a sort of a recalibration phase, whereas I
think now, you know, particularly with the new rateable values,
(11:56):
when they came out where everyone was like, oh my gosh,
my property has gone back in value twenty five percent,
it was like, well it did it did that a
couple of years ago actually, but sure, if that's how
much evidence unique.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Both of you. So think about this, Danielle, when I
come to you, how much importance do people still pay?
When I grew up, it was the government valuation, yes,
you know, was what you valued your house out Now
do people still look at it?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I think they probably do. Even though a lot of
agents will say, hey, look you are r V, your QV,
your CV, your GV, whatever you want to call it
is just what your rates are based on. It is
still a figure that has put out there attached to
your property that does say from an independent source, this
is where we see the value, and so it is
quite hard for people to absolutely separate out from that figure.
(12:42):
So it is a guide. Sometimes coincidentally it's quite accurate.
Quite often it's not.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Though, yeah, quite often it's not. Daniel I'm going to
ask you the same question because I mean, legally, people
are coming to you and they're saying, my house worth
all this, and they're showing you the offer that they've
got and they're saying, but you know this was worth
a lot more, and how do how do you relate
to that?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Well, it's more from an instead of the vendor's perspective.
From the buyer's perspective, especially first time buyers. They are
very naive to the process and they incorrectly come to
us as their lawyer for purchase price advices and what
to put in the offer. We don't advise anything regarding
what to offer it on the property, only the conditions
(13:26):
terms of the agreement, things like.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That, did they come to you before they make the offer.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
They meant to? Yes, they meant to.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I've never done that. I've always done it the other
way around. I just make the offer to the lawyer
and say this is what I've offered. Help help help.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, Well, the idea, the ideal client would contact us
before that as they're starting their search for a property,
so that they're already signed up and had their AML complete.
That takes time, and we can't act for a client
unless we've onboarded them correctly the AML.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That's that security stuff a money laundering stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Anti money laundering, all fun stuff, or it can all
be done electronically now, so it is a pretty smooth process.
But it just if they have that done before they
find a property and want to put an offer, and
it just makes it faster at the other end. And
we do say we like to have forty eight hours
notice before an offer is being submitted. In the Heart
Valley in particular, a lot of the properties are first
marketed by deadline sale or tender. I'm not sure if
(14:19):
it's the same in Wellington, Aerjie. So that really helps
us because we've all got a date that everyone's working
to the mortgage broker, the bank, the lawyer and the
real estate agent, so it's not as a surprise for
the buyer.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
See. Something that really surprised me doing a property deal
a year ago was the amount of connection there is
between the land agent and the lawyer. I mean I
would have thought, well, nothing to do with that agent. Well,
but you have a lot of connection with the legal people,
don't you, agent.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, I mean it is a little bit of a
case by case basis because you know, yes, if you
are working with a solicitor who enjoys that kind of
relationship as well, but some just don't. So it really
does depend who the solicitor is that either the purchaser
or the vendor is working with.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And that's something we try on purpose to maintain is
good contact and include the real estate agent acting on
the transaction and all correspondence between ourselves and the other
side's lawyer. And I only know how important is because
I was a real estate agent before I was a lawyer.
And it's really annoying if you don't know what's going on.
(15:25):
If there's been price reductions negotiated or agreements side agreements
made after the contract was signed, those wouldn't need to
be necessarily done through the real estate agent, so unless
the lawyer has looped the agent and they have no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Now I keep hearing this because I obviously still talk
to a lot of people. I hear this magical figure
of a million dollars. If you're selling a property, you
know around the million dollars. It's a quick and it's
an easy deal. Banks like it, you know, everyone likes it.
Am I right or I'm I wrong? Daniel, I'm looking
at you first.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I've heard it, Heart Valley. We're a bit probably live
a million dollars and the upper heart would via high
end property. I'd say it's more closer to that between
eight and nine hundred.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, But I mean that there is a magical figure
that everyone sort of seems to work a little bit easier,
am I right?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, definitely, And I'd say it's eight for feen.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And a million dollars in town.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, I think that's probably right. There's always a glass ceiling,
so getting getting someone to feel comfortable paying seven digits
on a price versus six as a job and the
two million dollar bracket and the three million dollar brackets
all the same. But I think anything sub million is
where we are busiest at the moment, without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I really want to ask you one really quick question
before we go to the news break, Daniel and coming
with you. What can make things better? What can make
things easier and better for people buying a house and
working with agents and legal people if.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
They're organized, and that's not just the client themselves, it's everyone.
Realist agent has all the paperwork ready before the house
goes to the market, so it can just be a
seamless process from when they want to put an offer
into when the property settles.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Angie, what can make it things better?
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I think communication is number one, because I think particularly
for not home sellers, but home buyers, they maybe feel
like they need to keep their cards pretty close to
their chest with an agent. But the more we know,
the more we can help. So I think communication.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Am I going to ask you one really really quick questions?
Goo getting yelled at by my producers. Were looked at
it by my producers. Do clients trust their agents?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Daniel, No, No, Angie, that's a shame.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
It's a shame. It's a shame to hear. I mean,
I'd say that that probably would be the average average
approach by most sellers, would to be feeling a bit
stand offish with their agent. But I would hope that's
not the case with my clients.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I trust you, Angie, and I trust the agent that
I dealt with a couple of months ago. So there
you go. I mean, I think you can't do business
with people you can't trust, can you.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It's It's the same goes for lawyers as well.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Not ever, it's an industry thing, not a personal attack.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
No, I think, I mean, I've if I can't trust
you if you can't trust your lawyer, you're in a
lot of trouble. And if you can't trust your real
estate age, you're in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I think people probably come into the relationship with some
skepticism and then it's you know, it's over to us
to make sure that that it is.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How can you not trust Angel Angie Foster. Angie is
a very well known Wellington real estate consultant with Low
and Co. And Danielle is the law lady, a lawyer
that does mostly property stuff or property stuff in Upper Heart.
What about of a Wellington person? I mean everything's done
by computer an email. Can't people actually have you as
(18:41):
a lawyer if they were in Wontington?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, and we service clients all the way you know,
Auckland and down south because nowadays you don't actually have
to meet in person to sign paperwork. Can all be
down via radio call or info track for electronic signing.
And if there's a stat deck that needs witnessing, if
we can't do it in person, they can go to
their local JP and get it signed.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And sent to us so you can do business with it.
Same with you, Angie. People will be doing business one
sell their property and investment property and Wellington more over
the country, they can call you and still do the deal.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yeah, Danielle and I were just talking about this earlier,
that that sort of COVID time really brought about their
comfort with electronic signing, that you don't have to be
there put your initials on something. So we deal with
a lot of clients and buyers who are not based
in Wellington, or sometimes even they are, but they haven't
got the time to call and to dott and across
(19:31):
something themselves. So yeah, I mean to hear work with
people not in them I.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Want to get to what we're thinking about how we're
feeling about Wellington in a minute. But I just wanted
to ask you something that that's been sort of become
prevalent again lately, capital gains tax. And as you'll start
with you, I personally think capital gains tax is only
years away, not a lifetime away. Years away. I mean,
I think we're only one of very few countries in
(19:57):
the OECD that doesn't have some form of capital gains tax. R.
What's your thoughts and what are your clients telling you what?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, I mean I don't hear many clients talking about it.
It's unlikely to impact on your family home, and I
don't know that for sure obviously, but most of the time, yeah,
when you look at capital gains tax, it will probably
apply to your second home, so your batch or an
investment property. And you're right, I mean I think that,
you know, we are probably behind a lot of the
(20:24):
other countries that have already implemented this years ago. And
I'm sure it's just around the corner as well.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Danielle, what are they talking about in law words about
capital gains tax? Do you think it'll come in?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, I've always been a bit confused by this conversation
because to me, we already have capital gains tax. It's
just not called that. So if you have an investment
property or anything other than a main home, and you
sell it within the bright line period, you have to
pay tax on the profits.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
It already exists, yeah, on a period of time. But
you I mean, you know, if you kept it for
the certain amount of time for the blue line and
then you go and justin since.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I've been a lawyer, that time period has changed three
times with the change of government, So I went from
five years to ten years down to two years, so
you've really got to, especially if you're a prevalent property
buyer and sell it, you really have to keep your
finger on the pulse with those time frames because you
could because you could get called out if you sell
(21:22):
within that bright line period.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So you, I mean, you obviously deal with a lot
of people that are flickers or movers that just buy
and sell. And do they ever think about it? Do
they talk about it? Do they think that if they
actually held a property for a period of time. I'm
looking at you, too, angy on this. Well, if I
hold it in another six months, I don't have to
pay tax. Is that ever in the conversation?
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Not for me.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It is in our conversations, but usually that's factored in
at the office stage, before they've even secured the property.
They're factoring in as one of the costs, the tax,
the tax. Yeah, I don't think it would be typical
for a property flipper to purposely hold on to a
property just so they could.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's what I sort of thinking about it. But I
wait another six months and then I won't have to
pay the tax. Do they not think like that? They
just think it's time to flick it on. I'll pay
the tax.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Usually they're pretty heavily ticked up finance wise. So and
second tier and third tier lenders are involved. So every
month you're holding onto the properties, costing you a significant
amount of money.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can can you just mention something that I haven't heard
for a long long time? Second tier lenders. I meant,
no such thing as second tier leader.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
There's plenty.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, so people are doing deals with second
tier leader.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It's how I bought my first house with a second
tier lender. So if you how does it work? It's
just in my mind, second is anyone other than the
mainstream banks. If you can't get finance with the mainstream banks,
your mortgage brokers more than likely going to have a
contact at one of the second tier lenders and they'll
put your application in front of them. It just they
have a few more hoops to jump through, but it
(23:01):
helps our first time buyers that wouldn't fit the mainstream criteria.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You're not in. I would have thought that you wouldn't
have sold a house in the last three or four
years for second tier lenders.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Oh no, definitely they're becoming more and more common. I
think people are feeling more comfortable with them that it
does cost more. Their interest rates are higher, but often well,
I mean, I think if you so, you can get
a four point four to nine. Now with the mainstream bank,
I think second tier lenders and I'm having a guess
at this, but you're probably closer to six percent.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
The last mortgage documents I saw a second teier lender
where at seven seven. So they're not insanely more than.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Most people would think that's livable if they can't get
finance from a main bag.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
They're also far more open to doing interest only terms,
whereas most mainstream banks will want a P and I loan,
So you'll actually find that even though you're paying a
higher interest rate, if it's interest only, it's probably about
the same. It's what you be with a mainstream bank
on a P and I.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now I know I won't mention any names, Daniel, but
I know one of the main banks, and we might
be in a building pretty close to it that actually
are doing a lot of interest only stuff. At the moment,
are the numbers as much as we're hearing or not.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
We don't really see that end of the five Once
we've secured the property and signed the mortgage documents. With
the client. They don't really come back to us unless
they're changing banks, So the interests only side of it
would be negotiated direct with the bank.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
With Angie and Danielle. And you're going to start with
you with us. I mean, let's talk about Wellington. Let's talk.
I mean, there's been a lot of negativity for a
few years and everyone's feeling down. Everybody wants to be positive,
and everybody wants to get things moving. What are we
doing right and what are we doing wrong in Wellington
right now?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Well, I think one of the things we're may be
doing wrong is hoping that some new meal will come
in and fix everything and there'll be rainbows the next
day and we will be feeling better and maybe you know,
not taking as much personal responsibility for turning things around.
The more business owners that I've spoken to about how
they are doing, I get the feeling. And I don't
(24:57):
know if this is because it's the people I'm surrounding
myself with, but I get the feeling that there is
a ground swell out there of people, you know, really
wanting to lift Wellington out of the that we have
been in. And I think that's how we will do it.
It's not going to be one person coming in as
mayor that is going to change everything's it's us all
actually taking some personal responsibility and accountability for you know,
(25:19):
just being better citizens of this city and going out
and you know, as we are doing supporting local, which
I know is not necessarily simple for everyone if you
haven't got the money to go out to a local cafe.
But there's so many other ways you can support local.
There are so many organizations that would take you know,
two three hours of your volunteer time to help them
(25:39):
in their project. So there's so many other ways, you know,
outside of financial support for business, that we can all
be actually contributing to turning this around.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I know you don't want to talk about the political thing,
but I can guarantee and I've hosted a couple of
your organizations as well as other real estate organization functions,
and they are all talking political. But everyone's got a
bit of a yawn on, isn't. I mean, it's one
week away from a council election and we're not excited.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
No, I don't think there's much excitement, So that's not
the word i'd put on it. I mean, one thing
I do know is speaking to a lot of homeowners
who have been sitting back going you know, this is
not a great time to sell. If we put our
house on the market now, we'll lose so much money.
The mayor is being raised by quite a few people
as a beacon of light, you know, and you change. Yeah, yeah,
and so, and I think it can be that if
(26:29):
there's enough people that feel that whoever comes in, and
you know, it's maybe looking fairly obvious who will come in,
but whoever comes in is hopefully going to have already
that's at a ground swell of us being like a
new mayor, a new change, you know, a new chapter
for Wellington, and maybe that will help. But it's not
(26:49):
going to be just the mayor doing you and.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
You're putting it down to us as individuals do Yeah. Difference, Yeah, absolutely, Danielle.
Now I know you're a hut check check proud hut check. Right.
I don't think there's going to be a change in
the in the leadership of of Upper Heart, But I mean,
Hupper Hearts had an amazing time of it lately, hasn't it.
(27:11):
It's been I mean, compared to Wellington, it's been bloody buoyant.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I'd say, yeah, even thriving, and that's thanks to we've
got lots of new developments, so the likes of Walls
Full of State and then Brutown, So you've got a
draw for people from the city to come out to
Upper Hut, where as it used to be the other
way around. You'd wait for the weekend and head out
from the Heart into the city and it's just a
(27:37):
different pace than in the city. So you've got the
lots of walks and more lifestyle activities that are easily
accessible for everyone, and it literally is twenty minutes to
get out there. So yeah, I'd say Upper Heart is
if we could maintain this kind of growth, it's only
looking positive for the future.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Down to one man, though. One man's doing a lot
of them. Yeah, and he hate to be I mean
I love to be it. Don't get me wrong. I'm
not going to have a crackative. But you've got one
developer that's so strong and made a whole city grow.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Indeed, yep, and I've personally lived in three of his developments.
Another Hut.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, can you get the check out our Alpa Hut?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You'd have to ask someone who's left but I don't
think so. Personally.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Well, I remember your mother coming into town for about
six months and going straight back out there. I always
wondered with I always thought, once you left the hut,
you might actually leave the hut.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
But no, I don't believe so.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, neck what makes it so special.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's the sense of community I find Wellington. Wellingtonian might
think it's a small place, but when I come into
the city, it's a whole new world and I can't
understand here where id knows each other with it being
so big. But in Upper Heart and Lower Heart as well,
it's a really close community and your wave each morning
to your neighbor. You can it's quite old school like that.
(29:02):
You can go and ask for eggs from someone down
the street and to me it's safe, whereas I don't
necessarily get that same feeling in the city.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Okay, tell me what the people of Upper Hearted telling you.
Do you think that mister Guppy will stay on it.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I'd be shocked if he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, property law specialist, the law lady, the lady of
the law lady. I'm reinventing your name now. Danielle Sutton,
Danielle Allan Sutton, real estate agent, consultant at agent, still
old fashioned real estate agent.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And I still say that too, is dear. I just
think that's what people kind of think of us as agent. What,
of course we're not.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
You're consultants at Low and Co. Angie Foster, Right, Angie,
I'm going to start with you today. Right, someone very
very special comes into town, right, and you're driving out
to the airport to pick them up. You're thinking, I've
got a couple of hours to spell before I put
them in their hotel room. What am I going to
do with them? Well?
Speaker 4 (29:55):
My two aspects of Wellington that I find to be
magical are our waterfront and our native birds. And both
my kids would laugh at me saying that I've become
quite the twitcher in my latter years.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
What's a twitcher?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Have you not heard of?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Twitch?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Like a bird watcher, which I'm you know, I'm not.
I'm not all in it. I even got the you know,
the binoculars and all that sort of stuff. I don't
even know what half of them are. But I do
love the birds that we have in Wellington City. That's
just an incredible predator Free Wellington, an amazing organization, but
one of the places I would take my guest would
be Zelandier because I think that's such an incredible experience
(30:33):
for people. And you don't even have to be a
big bird watcher, a twitcher, a twitcher, I think anyone
would appreciate. It's like being out in nature with you know,
some of the most amazing native birds all around you.
And you know, I live in Wellington and you know,
literally about thirteen doors up from Courtney Place and our
garden is filled with karaka, towey fantails, kingfishes. So that's
(30:58):
a pretty remarkable thing for me for Wellington. The other
thing would be our waterfront. You know, anywhere on the
waterfront for a walk around, whether it's Obay Beach, whether
it's grabbing a bike to eat down at at the
waterfront restaurant. I think that's a really special part of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Very that sounds exciting. Twitter, Danielle, tell me you hadn't
heard of Twitter.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I had heard of twitcher.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Excuse me for big eggur he it all the time now, Yeah,
I'm going to use it all the time. Now. So
you've got you've made the big trip from Upper Hutton
to the city, so you've had to go through the
smog to get the airport. You've picked up this very
very special person. What are you going to do with them?
Get them hit the hell out of one agent as
quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Well, yeah, we wouldn't be. I wouldn't be dropping them
at a hotel in the city. I'd most likely bring
them out with us at home. We're not known for
our hotels in a nupper hut or motels, but we've
got plenty of evmbs in spare room for them to
stay in. But on the way out we'd have to
stop at Brutown for drinks and a barbecue, and depending
(31:58):
on the age of the guests, whether we're doing go
karting or the trampoline park or the escape room, and
ideally going for a walk along the Heart rivertrail, depending
on how that long they can walk for I like
to do a tae weekend here.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Wow, that's amazing, two completely different things to do. Property
law specialists, the law lady Danielle Allen Sutton and Angie Foster,
the real estate consultant or agent as i'd like to
call them. Thank you both for giving up your time
on a Monday morning and coming best of luck. Let's
hope that this coming summer is a great and successful
summer for all of us.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Very good. Thanks Man.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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