March 8, 2026 • 9 mins
Wellington City Council's revenue and financial working group has released their report with 50 suggestions to cut council spending and rates rises.
Chair of the group and deputy mayor Ben McNulty joins Nick to discuss the findings of the report. The report will head to public consultation, after the council meeting on Thursday.
The report aims to save about $8 -10 million, including cutting the council's climate budget by $1.65 million.
McNulty shares how the decisions were made, the limits and the future of the report.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ben McNulty is Deputy Mayor and chair of the Council's
Revenue and Financial Review Working Group. He joins us now, good.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Morning, Ben Moreton and Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So tell me do you reckon you've done well enough?
Do you reckon that it's good enough for us?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So I'm gonna have to buoy you for a sec
with just some some semantic details. But Council, when we budget,
we do it in the long term plan, that's your
big tenure plan, and then in the off years you're
doing an annual plan. So right now we're in the
third year of the annual plan that was passed in
the last Council under Methano. That constrains what we can
and what we can't look at in terms of if
(00:48):
we have to do major changes or we want to
change a level of service, you need to go for
a long term plan. Amendment that's expensive, requires a high
level of consultation. So this group has always been focused
about what's the fixed reoccurring costs, the operational costs, not
the capital stuff, but the stuff oc occurs year on
year on year that we can influence four this year's
budget ahead of doing that much larger piece of work
(01:10):
for the long term plan, which we'll start working on
essentially once and you know later on in this month.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Is your group's goal to actually get into the nitty
gritty though, if you can't do anything, what's the point
of having the group?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Oh, I mean we have got into the nitty gritty.
Like we started off with every line by line, you know,
my South councilor Andal councilor Tobden, all of us went
through the budget and they did every single variance that
was more than five percent from last year, and every
single team crossed a council and we're able to go
why has this changed? Why hasn't this changed? And been
able to actually dig into some stuff. There's a pretty
big list of things that we've got on our radar
(01:44):
now once we head into the long term plan process.
But this is just the beginning of a cultural shift
to influence the annual plan, to find savings, revenue features
and ways of being more efficient. And as we get
into that long term plan, that's where I think we're
going to see some real dividends.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I know that the Council table can't decide on this,
but I want to ask you a question. When did
the Deloitte's report get first presented to counsel six months ago?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Maybe there would have been it was in this term,
so December last year. I think all right sounds.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
In that report. And once again I know that you
can't the councils can't decide this, but they can make
noises and think about it. They said that you've got
to lose or change three hundred jobs in council? How
many of that? How many of those jobs have been
lost or haven't been replaced since that report came out.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I don't have the numbers on that. I knowed as
a hiring freeze generally long teams. So basically anyone who
would have left between the time that report was published
and today would under been replaced in most circumstances. But
I can't give you the specifics unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So as the head of this financial review group, you'll
understand the economics of it and really to save money,
that's somewhere something that has to be looked at. Can
you make recommendations that the CEO looks at it more seriously?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, I think the key thing here is actually a
bit of a three pronged approach. So the Deloitte report
is the CEO is actual own report for him to
go where is the organization efficient? Where are the issues?
And where should I be putting resources in time? The
working group is then almost separate to them and going
as counselors, what are the savings we're willing to actually
lead and own as the politicians and put to the public.
(03:26):
And then you've got the Trianium Plan which was released
last week, which said this is the work program we
want you to work on. If it's not on this,
it's not a priority. And the reason why those three
approaches come together actually to a substantive change of direction
is really important. But I do want to say in
the last Trinium when savings were attempted, what happened was
that the elected officials went away to our stuff and said, oh,
(03:46):
come find us some savings, and they came back with
things like closing tar and Crory Paul one day a
week or closing libraries for seven days a week, and
the public hated it. This is a really different way
of going about it. This is the elected officials actually
directing the organization and going here's the things where we
want to see savings and where we think they can
be achieved, and we'll own the flag or the credit
it for that work. We're not going to put the
(04:08):
officials in the awkward position of trying to guess where
to find the savings that have all still happened through
Deloitte report and efficiencies. But this is about us very
much owning it publicly and saying this is the work
that we're trying to do. As well.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
On top of that, how long does the public consultation
go on for and will they be listened to? I
mean we're sick and tired of having public consultant. You know,
you give us your recommendations and nothing happens.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, look, I really do think this is a council
that listens. Why did we repeal the motorcycle parking charges?
Because eighty percent of people said no in the last council,
they went ahead and did it anyway. That's why it
was important to change tech and repeal that in terms
of this new council. So this is really an important
consultation will be open for three or four weeks in April.
We need to know. This is the first stab at
(04:51):
trying to take the direction. Let's remember in the elections
there was candidates in every single ward and several for
mayor that wanted to slash and burn to the very
bone of council. Wellingtonians did not endorse that direction. At
the same time, they did endorse a clear direction that
they wanted to see some small adults in the room
and taking charge of the finances. So that consultation really
is well Antonian's to say, have we got it right it?
(05:13):
Should we go further? Well, people might actually hate it
Nick as well and tell us that we're going too far,
But that's the whole point, is that we do need
to hear that from the public this time. And I
would hope what will you do early decisions we're shown
were listening.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Sorry for interrupt That was really rude to me. So
what will you do if the public consultation comes back
in and said this is nowhere near hard enough, we
want more cuts, we want our rates not to be
as expensive as they are.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well would look at if there are other things we
can pull on there, But again we are constrained by
that whole long term plan budget free process, and it's
likely that a lot of those things would fall into
the long term plan. And I just one thing I
do really want to point out though, in this report,
there's a lot of things in there that are going
to save the council money but can't be costed up
right now. Traffic management for UNS. We've said, hey, we
(05:57):
actually want to set when we want to see traffic
management from the elected members as a general risk rule,
so we want to see less of it, and we
also want to look at and we can't put a
dollar figure next to that right now and say this
will save X, but we know once that's embedded, it
will save money over the long term. So there are
a lot of recommendations in the report along those lines too.
So they're about building a different change of culture how
(06:19):
we actually look at value for money in the organization.
But they're not going to be recognized in you know,
terms of this year's budget, but they will pay dividends
over the long term.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I take on board what you said about a new
council and the public being right behind the council because
they are they are feeling like that's as you put it,
or as anyone wants to put adults in the room,
and they're trying to do the right thing. How long
will that last before they want to see they want
to see some real results. I mean, you know the
bus tickets that we've talked about, that, the three point
(06:49):
seven times commercial rates, they've talked about doing something about that.
There's a lot of talk about doing something. How long
can they wait?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, I hope that we'll ask the entirety of the
term to trust. I think this budget is the first
real tangible step of what your rates look like in
terms of one July twenty two. Those other things do
need to be progressed and looked at as well. And
I know that unfortunately, Council is not a fast moving beast.
We are a bureaucracy of four hundred services. It does
take time to see the ship. But I need I
(07:19):
guess all I can say, we're listening, and it's on
the workflow program, it is in the Mayor's priority list.
And you know you'll keep them accountable. You see them
once a month, So that is part of I'll us
say on you know, your role, keep the accountability and
the pressure up.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Who is the biggest winner and the biggest loser out
of the latest documentary you've put together?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't really know if they're a bigger winner or
a bigger loser, because we've taken the approach that everyone
in every part of council needs to contribute in terms
of finding savings and changing the direction of the culture. Certainly,
if you spoke to the Green councilors, they say that
the climate areas are the biggest loser. But if you
look at what we're actually saying in climate, we're saying
we want to prioritize areas that have the most tangible
reduction in emissions and that actually show that they're delivering
(08:03):
results in value of money, which I think most people
would say is actually a good thing to do.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Out of a scale of one to ten, ten being amazing, fantastic,
the best, and one. You know what, seven point four?
How do you feel about that? Where do you put
that on that scale?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I pra agree it's about a seven. There's things in
this process that I would have liked to see us
be able to do more of. You know, oh, that
will be a long term plan. Minute night, we won't
be able to have time, so that our offices are
going to need more time to get the information all
of those kinds of things that came through the process
are incredibly frustrating. But I guess with the proof of
the pudding is really when we go out with our
long term plan next year, to Wealentonian see a fundamentally
(08:40):
different shape and direction of the council and you know,
a real just focus on what when we spend your money,
we're spending it wisely and we're getting value out of it,
and you can see on the ground what that money
is doing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Can you feel, as somebody that's been there for a while,
can you feel that there is a genuine move towards
cutting costs and making things more efficient?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nick one hundred percent. So in the last tray a
theen this was in December, myself and counselor heal But
put up an amendment. We asked, this is when the
budget of the rates was looking at a thirteen percent increase,
we said, can we get ten We just put that
up on the table, saying to our officials, can you
report back on how we can get a ten percent increase?
That was voted down twelve votes to six. So in
(09:21):
the previous council by a two thirds majority, your counselors
didn't even want to know how to get the rates
down from thirteen percent to ten. That is not the
game anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Thank you very much for joining us, and I think
we've all got to appreciate anything that tries to lower
our rates. I've been McNulty. He's the Deputy Mayor and
the chair of the Finance Financial Review Working Group.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Quick for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ben McNulty is Deputy Mayor and chair of the Council's
Revenue and Financial Review Working Group. He joins us now, good.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Morning, Ben Moreton and Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So tell me do you reckon you've done well enough?
Do you reckon that it's good enough for us?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So I'm gonna have to buoy you for a sec
with just some some semantic details. But Council, when we budget,
we do it in the long term plan, that's your
big tenure plan, and then in the off years you're
doing an annual plan. So right now we're in the
third year of the annual plan that was passed in
the last Council under Methano. That constrains what we can
and what we can't look at in terms of if
(00:48):
we have to do major changes or we want to
change a level of service, you need to go for
a long term plan. Amendment that's expensive, requires a high
level of consultation. So this group has always been focused
about what's the fixed reoccurring costs, the operational costs, not
the capital stuff, but the stuff oc occurs year on
year on year that we can influence four this year's
budget ahead of doing that much larger piece of work
(01:10):
for the long term plan, which we'll start working on
essentially once and you know later on in this month.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Is your group's goal to actually get into the nitty
gritty though, if you can't do anything, what's the point
of having the group?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Oh, I mean we have got into the nitty gritty.
Like we started off with every line by line, you know,
my South councilor Andal councilor Tobden, all of us went
through the budget and they did every single variance that
was more than five percent from last year, and every
single team crossed a council and we're able to go
why has this changed? Why hasn't this changed? And been
able to actually dig into some stuff. There's a pretty
big list of things that we've got on our radar
(01:44):
now once we head into the long term plan process.
But this is just the beginning of a cultural shift
to influence the annual plan, to find savings, revenue features
and ways of being more efficient. And as we get
into that long term plan, that's where I think we're
going to see some real dividends.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I know that the Council table can't decide on this,
but I want to ask you a question. When did
the Deloitte's report get first presented to counsel six months ago?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Maybe there would have been it was in this term,
so December last year. I think all right sounds.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
In that report. And once again I know that you
can't the councils can't decide this, but they can make
noises and think about it. They said that you've got
to lose or change three hundred jobs in council? How
many of that? How many of those jobs have been
lost or haven't been replaced since that report came out.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I don't have the numbers on that. I knowed as
a hiring freeze generally long teams. So basically anyone who
would have left between the time that report was published
and today would under been replaced in most circumstances. But
I can't give you the specifics unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So as the head of this financial review group, you'll
understand the economics of it and really to save money,
that's somewhere something that has to be looked at. Can
you make recommendations that the CEO looks at it more seriously?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, I think the key thing here is actually a
bit of a three pronged approach. So the Deloitte report
is the CEO is actual own report for him to
go where is the organization efficient? Where are the issues?
And where should I be putting resources in time? The
working group is then almost separate to them and going
as counselors, what are the savings we're willing to actually
lead and own as the politicians and put to the public.
(03:26):
And then you've got the Trianium Plan which was released
last week, which said this is the work program we
want you to work on. If it's not on this,
it's not a priority. And the reason why those three
approaches come together actually to a substantive change of direction
is really important. But I do want to say in
the last Trinium when savings were attempted, what happened was
that the elected officials went away to our stuff and said, oh,
(03:46):
come find us some savings, and they came back with
things like closing tar and Crory Paul one day a
week or closing libraries for seven days a week, and
the public hated it. This is a really different way
of going about it. This is the elected officials actually
directing the organization and going here's the things where we
want to see savings and where we think they can
be achieved, and we'll own the flag or the credit
it for that work. We're not going to put the
(04:08):
officials in the awkward position of trying to guess where
to find the savings that have all still happened through
Deloitte report and efficiencies. But this is about us very
much owning it publicly and saying this is the work
that we're trying to do. As well.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
On top of that, how long does the public consultation
go on for and will they be listened to? I
mean we're sick and tired of having public consultant. You know,
you give us your recommendations and nothing happens.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, look, I really do think this is a council
that listens. Why did we repeal the motorcycle parking charges?
Because eighty percent of people said no in the last council,
they went ahead and did it anyway. That's why it
was important to change tech and repeal that in terms
of this new council. So this is really an important
consultation will be open for three or four weeks in April.
We need to know. This is the first stab at
(04:51):
trying to take the direction. Let's remember in the elections
there was candidates in every single ward and several for
mayor that wanted to slash and burn to the very
bone of council. Wellingtonians did not endorse that direction. At
the same time, they did endorse a clear direction that
they wanted to see some small adults in the room
and taking charge of the finances. So that consultation really
is well Antonian's to say, have we got it right it?
(05:13):
Should we go further? Well, people might actually hate it
Nick as well and tell us that we're going too far,
But that's the whole point, is that we do need
to hear that from the public this time. And I
would hope what will you do early decisions we're shown
were listening.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Sorry for interrupt That was really rude to me. So
what will you do if the public consultation comes back
in and said this is nowhere near hard enough, we
want more cuts, we want our rates not to be
as expensive as they are.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well would look at if there are other things we
can pull on there, But again we are constrained by
that whole long term plan budget free process, and it's
likely that a lot of those things would fall into
the long term plan. And I just one thing I
do really want to point out though, in this report,
there's a lot of things in there that are going
to save the council money but can't be costed up
right now. Traffic management for UNS. We've said, hey, we
(05:57):
actually want to set when we want to see traffic
management from the elected members as a general risk rule,
so we want to see less of it, and we
also want to look at and we can't put a
dollar figure next to that right now and say this
will save X, but we know once that's embedded, it
will save money over the long term. So there are
a lot of recommendations in the report along those lines too.
So they're about building a different change of culture how
(06:19):
we actually look at value for money in the organization.
But they're not going to be recognized in you know,
terms of this year's budget, but they will pay dividends
over the long term.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I take on board what you said about a new
council and the public being right behind the council because
they are they are feeling like that's as you put it,
or as anyone wants to put adults in the room,
and they're trying to do the right thing. How long
will that last before they want to see they want
to see some real results. I mean, you know the
bus tickets that we've talked about, that, the three point
(06:49):
seven times commercial rates, they've talked about doing something about that.
There's a lot of talk about doing something. How long
can they wait?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, I hope that we'll ask the entirety of the
term to trust. I think this budget is the first
real tangible step of what your rates look like in
terms of one July twenty two. Those other things do
need to be progressed and looked at as well. And
I know that unfortunately, Council is not a fast moving beast.
We are a bureaucracy of four hundred services. It does
take time to see the ship. But I need I
(07:19):
guess all I can say, we're listening, and it's on
the workflow program, it is in the Mayor's priority list.
And you know you'll keep them accountable. You see them
once a month, So that is part of I'll us
say on you know, your role, keep the accountability and
the pressure up.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Who is the biggest winner and the biggest loser out
of the latest documentary you've put together?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't really know if they're a bigger winner or
a bigger loser, because we've taken the approach that everyone
in every part of council needs to contribute in terms
of finding savings and changing the direction of the culture. Certainly,
if you spoke to the Green councilors, they say that
the climate areas are the biggest loser. But if you
look at what we're actually saying in climate, we're saying
we want to prioritize areas that have the most tangible
reduction in emissions and that actually show that they're delivering
(08:03):
results in value of money, which I think most people
would say is actually a good thing to do.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Out of a scale of one to ten, ten being amazing, fantastic,
the best, and one. You know what, seven point four?
How do you feel about that? Where do you put
that on that scale?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
I pra agree it's about a seven. There's things in
this process that I would have liked to see us
be able to do more of. You know, oh, that
will be a long term plan. Minute night, we won't
be able to have time, so that our offices are
going to need more time to get the information all
of those kinds of things that came through the process
are incredibly frustrating. But I guess with the proof of
the pudding is really when we go out with our
long term plan next year, to Wealentonian see a fundamentally
(08:40):
different shape and direction of the council and you know,
a real just focus on what when we spend your money,
we're spending it wisely and we're getting value out of it,
and you can see on the ground what that money
is doing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Can you feel, as somebody that's been there for a while,
can you feel that there is a genuine move towards
cutting costs and making things more efficient?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nick one hundred percent. So in the last tray a
theen this was in December, myself and counselor heal But
put up an amendment. We asked, this is when the
budget of the rates was looking at a thirteen percent increase,
we said, can we get ten We just put that
up on the table, saying to our officials, can you
report back on how we can get a ten percent increase?
That was voted down twelve votes to six. So in
(09:21):
the previous council by a two thirds majority, your counselors
didn't even want to know how to get the rates
down from thirteen percent to ten. That is not the
game anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Thank you very much for joining us, and I think
we've all got to appreciate anything that tries to lower
our rates. I've been McNulty. He's the Deputy Mayor and
the chair of the Finance Financial Review Working Group.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Quick for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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