July 19, 2026 • 12 mins
Winston Peters announced the new Cook Strait ferries are on track and will be named "Kupe" and "Cook.
Ferry Holdings Ltd Chairman Chris Mackenzie joins Nick Mills on the show to today to discuss the announcement.
He said the major announcement was overshadowed by conversation around the names although Mackenzie says he has only received positive feedback so far.
Mackenzie laid out the plan for the introduction of the new ferries and when they are expected, saying although it would be good if they are early the wharves don't yet have the space for them.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ad B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Chris McKenzie's chairman of Fairy Holdings and we're lucky enough
to have him on the show. Now, Good morning, Chris,
Good morning. Was it a big announcement or not? Versy?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It was. Actually there were three things within that announcement.
Unfortunately two of them have actually diverted their teach and
away from what was actually the critical announcement. We were
required by the middle of the year to sign contracts
with the two ports in q Rail. We did that.
We had completed that at the thirtieth of June, and
(00:44):
that was, if you like, the major announcement from Fairy
Holdings perspective.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Was there any real discussions that it wasn't going to
be run by the government and by you guys. Was
there any discussion that it was going to be sold
out to private enterprise. I don't believe there was.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Look, I have to say that at this point the
Cabinet Minute has asked and look we're jumping ahead in
some respect. The Cabinet Minister has asked us to consider
options on operators and as considered to what are commercial arrangements.
(01:26):
Now we've got three yeer holding ministers. We met with
the three yeer holding ministers nearly a fortnight ago we
got approval to sign the development agreements with the two
ports and the and q Rail. At that meeting it
was agreed that the Minister of for Rail would be
(01:47):
announcing the names and that Inter Island there would be
the operator and it was still to be determined what
the future was, which of course has now been announced
that it will be thirty years plus a review after
ten years.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Now look, can I just interrupt you a second there, Chris?
But that was what my question was, was there really
any alternative to that decision?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, look the way I'm going to answer that is
to say, in signing the documents with the ports, we
had to sign a marine asset lease. At lease includes
who is it that the port can go after if
there's a default on the side of the ship operator
(02:38):
at the damage to wolves and so forth, and so
to get the marine asset lea signed, we had to
identify an operator. That operator was determined to be the
current operator, which is Into Isreland.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But can I tell once again, can I just interrupt you?
That's I totally understand where you're coming from, but I
wanted to know whether there was any intense discussion of
it being looked at as an international operator rather than
the current operators.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
There was discussion around that, and there were two reasons,
really principal reasons why we went for the Enterre Islander
at this point, and that was a the contract. B
it's the relationship between operating the vessels and the rail network.
Remember these two fairies are part of State Highway one,
(03:31):
so they share State Highway one with Bluebridge. And it's
also the connection between the mainland and the North Island
for the rail Now, if you go back in history
in nineteen sixty two Railways owned the Fairies that they
were operated by Union Steamship Company and look, ministers of
any government in the future could determine that that's the
(03:54):
way they would want to go. But for the current
program that we have got, it was determined that it
was best to have the current operator to go through
that first period. Now, what ministers have decided is it's
thirty years, but it's going to be reviewed after ten years. Now,
(04:16):
part of the rationale for the review after ten years
is that they've got to rebuild their business when they
get the new fairies, and that may take three to
five years, who knows. And after that then you will
judge them on how well they are actually operating the
vessels across the strait.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So right now, Chris, both fairies arrive at exactly the
same time, Is that what you're telling us in twenty
twenty nine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
No, the first ferry arrives in the first quarter and
the second ferry arrives in the third quarter.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Right, both on track and live.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
They are on track. In fact, we are sort of
having to just keep tabs on the Chinese ship builder
because they'd like to deliver them billier.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
If they were available earlier. That's an sighting prospect for me.
If they were available earlier, will you take them earlier
or do you need to borrow some more money?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
No, no, no, But if they came early, we are
still up for the fixed term price. The reason that
we don't want them earlier is we do not want
to be in a position that we would have been
in with Irex, where we would have some ships sitting
here now but nowhere for them to go. Oh yeah yeah,
And so we don't want to get into the IREX
(05:34):
position or the Tasmanian position. The second reason that they're
staggered is that it gives us an opportunity to operate
the first vessel and iron out any issues so that
when the second vessel arrives, those issues have been ironed out.
Because you know, it's like buying a new car. Sometimes
(05:55):
you find not everything goes from day one as it
should go. All things turn up a week or two
after you've got it. So the two vessels will be
delivered in twenty nine. The infrastructure, which was actually the
key reason for Friday's media conference. That infrastructure. We have
(06:15):
guarantees from the construction people that it will be finished
at the end of twenty eight early twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
How are we tracking with all the costs and financials?
Are we all on track with that? I mean, it
seems like it's pretty organized at the moment.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
We are on track, if you sort of as an aside,
when the ministers agreed to the board, it set up
a board which wasn't just going to be full of
accountants who look at just numbers. So we've got to
captain Ed macleout. So he's been very helpful with us
on the maritime and the walls. We've got Greg Lowe
(06:55):
who was a ship has been building but was also
an engineer on ships. We've got Katherine Rich who brings
the business community. We've got here the Simpson who, along
with Dwayne Eaglson were probably the best chiefs of staff
that we've had in many, many years. And I was
a long a because I was the chair of the
group that rebuilt christ Church, the skirt program in christ Church.
(07:17):
So we've got a board who is holding management very tightly.
We have made sure that anything that they are entering
into is properly costed, but is also properly timed, and
you know for that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
How do you feel of the situation though at the
moment we've got one ferry? I mean, what happens if
that one breaks down and we've got no ferries? And
please don't tell me blue Star because that's Bluebridge, because
privately owned and could leave any day. They could be
they could make the announcement this afternoon that they're going
next week, couldn't they look?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The issue the place that we find ourselves and is
with two aging vessels. For aging vessels, if you want
to argue that way, two aging vessels, the maintenance that
Inter Island is now carrying out on the ferries has
been expanded to the point where those theories are now operating.
(08:18):
As the Minister said last Friday at ninety eight percent,
we have had no issues with either the Kia or
He or the Kaikaki since that new management of the
infrastructure within the vessels has under.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But Chris, one of them is going to be away
on maintenance, So we're going to be left with one,
aren't we Is that not? Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Then we've been We've been left with one over the
last period. But if you look at even during the
school holiday period, there were still places on that one
ferry that was running the Kaya or he was out.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's not really my question. My question is what happens
is that one fairy has a problem And you can
tell me all you like about ninety eight percent, but
if something breaks down, we will use You gave the
analogy of a new car cars breakdown.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, look, I can't give you any guarantee and you
need to talk to Inter Island or about that. Just
the other point I make is why is Faerry Holdings
actually set up on what's it doing? It's set up
because it's not operating fairies, it's not operating a port,
and so it is running a process totally independent of
(09:28):
the current operations, be it a wharf or a ship,
and so questions like that, I can't answer no.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But I'm saying that you've been brought in and so far,
so good. You're doing a great job. I'm not trying
to criticize in any form anyway. But your job is
to make sure that you know that we get the
new fairies quick enough. And I'm still concerned that that
might not be quick enough. But let's move on. Winston
Peters said, the Wokesters will be mad with the two
new names. Who chose the names? I think that great.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Is that was a ministerial decision, not one for fairy holdings.
Our only involvement in the names was we were asked
by the Minister to register those two names with Maritime
New Zealand, which we did. The Minister announced the names.
The Minister have decided the names.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What's the feedback being, like my personal feedback's always been
has been good.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, the feedback I've had, and I've had quite a
few phone calls, is they are very happy with the
names and so and I think there was was there
a poll or something that was run by stuff the
other day which had over seventy percent of the people
were comfortable with the names. So at the moment there
(10:43):
hasn't been any negative reaction.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So bottom line right now, how much are you going
to save from the original plan? What? What's what's New
Zealand going to save?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I Rex, Yes, from when when you took over to
when you know, when when the minister stopped everything, how
much have we saved?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I can't give you that number because that calculation has
been done by Treasury.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Well, I mean the number went up to about three billion,
didn't it. So are you going to save anything from there?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Oh? Look the number is just over three billion. Treasury
forecast that was potentially going to four billion. We are
going no, we are not going to go a penny
or I should say, these days over the one point
seven that the given is allocated.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Well, that's incredible, I mean, that would be an incredible
saving and it'd be an incredible job from an independent
looking from the outside, and I think you're doing a
great job, and it feels like it's on track to
be good, to be a successful plan, but I am
still scared that we are and I know that's not
you controlling it. I'm not trying to have a crack
at you, but I'm still very nervous that we might
(11:57):
have a situation where we don't have any inter Island
ferries at any one particular time. Chris Mackenzie, chairman of
the Faery Holdings Limit, thank you for joining us this morning.
Did you want to say something? Did you want to
quickly say something then?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
No, no, no. All I was going to say was, look,
we can't determine when ships are going to be serviceable
or not serviceable, and we would just have to do
the best that we can and that's what inter Island
they have been doing into Ireland. They have a range
for coastal shipping for some of the product, so it's
(12:33):
now going from Auckland down to the South Afland directly.
But as I say, if you talk to Kirao, they
do actually have a plan in place should that eventuality happen.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks ad B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Chris McKenzie's chairman of Fairy Holdings and we're lucky enough
to have him on the show. Now, Good morning, Chris,
Good morning. Was it a big announcement or not? Versy?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It was. Actually there were three things within that announcement.
Unfortunately two of them have actually diverted their teach and
away from what was actually the critical announcement. We were
required by the middle of the year to sign contracts
with the two ports in q Rail. We did that.
We had completed that at the thirtieth of June, and
(00:44):
that was, if you like, the major announcement from Fairy
Holdings perspective.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Was there any real discussions that it wasn't going to
be run by the government and by you guys. Was
there any discussion that it was going to be sold
out to private enterprise. I don't believe there was.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Look, I have to say that at this point the
Cabinet Minute has asked and look we're jumping ahead in
some respect. The Cabinet Minister has asked us to consider
options on operators and as considered to what are commercial arrangements.
(01:26):
Now we've got three yeer holding ministers. We met with
the three yeer holding ministers nearly a fortnight ago we
got approval to sign the development agreements with the two
ports and the and q Rail. At that meeting it
was agreed that the Minister of for Rail would be
(01:47):
announcing the names and that Inter Island there would be
the operator and it was still to be determined what
the future was, which of course has now been announced
that it will be thirty years plus a review after
ten years.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Now look, can I just interrupt you a second there, Chris?
But that was what my question was, was there really
any alternative to that decision?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, look the way I'm going to answer that is
to say, in signing the documents with the ports, we
had to sign a marine asset lease. At lease includes
who is it that the port can go after if
there's a default on the side of the ship operator
(02:38):
at the damage to wolves and so forth, and so
to get the marine asset lea signed, we had to
identify an operator. That operator was determined to be the
current operator, which is Into Isreland.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But can I tell once again, can I just interrupt you?
That's I totally understand where you're coming from, but I
wanted to know whether there was any intense discussion of
it being looked at as an international operator rather than
the current operators.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
There was discussion around that, and there were two reasons,
really principal reasons why we went for the Enterre Islander
at this point, and that was a the contract. B
it's the relationship between operating the vessels and the rail network.
Remember these two fairies are part of State Highway one,
(03:31):
so they share State Highway one with Bluebridge. And it's
also the connection between the mainland and the North Island
for the rail Now, if you go back in history
in nineteen sixty two Railways owned the Fairies that they
were operated by Union Steamship Company and look, ministers of
any government in the future could determine that that's the
(03:54):
way they would want to go. But for the current
program that we have got, it was determined that it
was best to have the current operator to go through
that first period. Now, what ministers have decided is it's
thirty years, but it's going to be reviewed after ten years. Now,
(04:16):
part of the rationale for the review after ten years
is that they've got to rebuild their business when they
get the new fairies, and that may take three to
five years, who knows. And after that then you will
judge them on how well they are actually operating the
vessels across the strait.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So right now, Chris, both fairies arrive at exactly the
same time, Is that what you're telling us in twenty
twenty nine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
No, the first ferry arrives in the first quarter and
the second ferry arrives in the third quarter.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Right, both on track and live.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
They are on track. In fact, we are sort of
having to just keep tabs on the Chinese ship builder
because they'd like to deliver them billier.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
If they were available earlier. That's an sighting prospect for me.
If they were available earlier, will you take them earlier
or do you need to borrow some more money?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
No, no, no, But if they came early, we are
still up for the fixed term price. The reason that
we don't want them earlier is we do not want
to be in a position that we would have been
in with Irex, where we would have some ships sitting
here now but nowhere for them to go. Oh yeah yeah,
And so we don't want to get into the IREX
(05:34):
position or the Tasmanian position. The second reason that they're
staggered is that it gives us an opportunity to operate
the first vessel and iron out any issues so that
when the second vessel arrives, those issues have been ironed out.
Because you know, it's like buying a new car. Sometimes
(05:55):
you find not everything goes from day one as it
should go. All things turn up a week or two
after you've got it. So the two vessels will be
delivered in twenty nine. The infrastructure, which was actually the
key reason for Friday's media conference. That infrastructure. We have
(06:15):
guarantees from the construction people that it will be finished
at the end of twenty eight early twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
How are we tracking with all the costs and financials?
Are we all on track with that? I mean, it
seems like it's pretty organized at the moment.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
We are on track, if you sort of as an aside,
when the ministers agreed to the board, it set up
a board which wasn't just going to be full of
accountants who look at just numbers. So we've got to
captain Ed macleout. So he's been very helpful with us
on the maritime and the walls. We've got Greg Lowe
(06:55):
who was a ship has been building but was also
an engineer on ships. We've got Katherine Rich who brings
the business community. We've got here the Simpson who, along
with Dwayne Eaglson were probably the best chiefs of staff
that we've had in many, many years. And I was
a long a because I was the chair of the
group that rebuilt christ Church, the skirt program in christ Church.
(07:17):
So we've got a board who is holding management very tightly.
We have made sure that anything that they are entering
into is properly costed, but is also properly timed, and
you know for that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
How do you feel of the situation though at the
moment we've got one ferry? I mean, what happens if
that one breaks down and we've got no ferries? And
please don't tell me blue Star because that's Bluebridge, because
privately owned and could leave any day. They could be
they could make the announcement this afternoon that they're going
next week, couldn't they look?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The issue the place that we find ourselves and is
with two aging vessels. For aging vessels, if you want
to argue that way, two aging vessels, the maintenance that
Inter Island is now carrying out on the ferries has
been expanded to the point where those theories are now operating.
(08:18):
As the Minister said last Friday at ninety eight percent,
we have had no issues with either the Kia or
He or the Kaikaki since that new management of the
infrastructure within the vessels has under.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But Chris, one of them is going to be away
on maintenance, So we're going to be left with one,
aren't we Is that not? Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Then we've been We've been left with one over the
last period. But if you look at even during the
school holiday period, there were still places on that one
ferry that was running the Kaya or he was out.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's not really my question. My question is what happens
is that one fairy has a problem And you can
tell me all you like about ninety eight percent, but
if something breaks down, we will use You gave the
analogy of a new car cars breakdown.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, look, I can't give you any guarantee and you
need to talk to Inter Island or about that. Just
the other point I make is why is Faerry Holdings
actually set up on what's it doing? It's set up
because it's not operating fairies, it's not operating a port,
and so it is running a process totally independent of
(09:28):
the current operations, be it a wharf or a ship,
and so questions like that, I can't answer no.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But I'm saying that you've been brought in and so far,
so good. You're doing a great job. I'm not trying
to criticize in any form anyway. But your job is
to make sure that you know that we get the
new fairies quick enough. And I'm still concerned that that
might not be quick enough. But let's move on. Winston
Peters said, the Wokesters will be mad with the two
new names. Who chose the names? I think that great.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Is that was a ministerial decision, not one for fairy holdings.
Our only involvement in the names was we were asked
by the Minister to register those two names with Maritime
New Zealand, which we did. The Minister announced the names.
The Minister have decided the names.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
What's the feedback being, like my personal feedback's always been
has been good.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, the feedback I've had, and I've had quite a
few phone calls, is they are very happy with the
names and so and I think there was was there
a poll or something that was run by stuff the
other day which had over seventy percent of the people
were comfortable with the names. So at the moment there
(10:43):
hasn't been any negative reaction.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So bottom line right now, how much are you going
to save from the original plan? What? What's what's New
Zealand going to save?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I Rex, Yes, from when when you took over to
when you know, when when the minister stopped everything, how
much have we saved?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I can't give you that number because that calculation has
been done by Treasury.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Well, I mean the number went up to about three billion,
didn't it. So are you going to save anything from there?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Oh? Look the number is just over three billion. Treasury
forecast that was potentially going to four billion. We are
going no, we are not going to go a penny
or I should say, these days over the one point
seven that the given is allocated.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Well, that's incredible, I mean, that would be an incredible
saving and it'd be an incredible job from an independent
looking from the outside, and I think you're doing a
great job, and it feels like it's on track to
be good, to be a successful plan, but I am
still scared that we are and I know that's not
you controlling it. I'm not trying to have a crack
at you, but I'm still very nervous that we might
(11:57):
have a situation where we don't have any inter Island
ferries at any one particular time. Chris Mackenzie, chairman of
the Faery Holdings Limit, thank you for joining us this morning.
Did you want to say something? Did you want to
quickly say something then?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
No, no, no. All I was going to say was, look,
we can't determine when ships are going to be serviceable
or not serviceable, and we would just have to do
the best that we can and that's what inter Island
they have been doing into Ireland. They have a range
for coastal shipping for some of the product, so it's
(12:33):
now going from Auckland down to the South Afland directly.
But as I say, if you talk to Kirao, they
do actually have a plan in place should that eventuality happen.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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