April 9, 2026 • 20 mins
Nick is joined by Finance Minister Nicola Willis for her monthly chat in the studio.
The minister has been busy fronting the fuel crisis and with the announcement of a two-week ceasefire, Nick gets answers on how Kiwis will be affected. Is the tide turning? Is the Strait opening?
Also, Nick asks Willis about the delivery of fuel and diesel for farmers.
Willis speaks about her reaction to Trump's threating social media posts and says that we are in a better place today compared to two days ago.
But how stable is the future and do we have any power as a little country at the bottom of the world?
And does Minister Willis have ambition to be Prime Minster?
Nick asks about the PMs mistakes this last week, and is popularity that important as a leader?
OCR and her relationship with Reserve Bank Governor Anna Bremen
Then into transport, and the talk around reducing work on Roads of National Significance
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Have been joined by Nikola Willis, our finance minister. She
looks amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning. That's a nice way to start the show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, you do look amazing. That top is great.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Ah, thank you and people will.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Be able to see it because Shamus as well.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
I can tell you it's a New Zealand designer called
Caitlyn Crisps.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And we found out that you don't have a stylist
because I thought you've been looking very stylish lately, and
I said, your stylust is doing a good job and
you don't have one.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
No, I've never had a stylist. I am my own stylist.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I have bought some new clothes recently, so that's probably
what you're seeing.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I'm glad that you like them.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Thinks.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Okay, right, let's get into the tough stuff. Is there
a ceasefire or no ceasefire? There is the war still going?
Is it not going? We still can't get petrol? And
so you as the person that's been the face of
it and done it once again, positive, very good job
of it. That doesn't help you, does it?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We're not there yet.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
You know, what I think everyone in New Zealand wants
to see is the price of petrol and diesel coming down,
and they want to see that we've got security of
fuel supply into the future. And we're not yet in
a position where we can guarantee that the ceasefire is progress.
But there's a lot of ifs now. We need to
see that it continues. We also need to see normal
amounts of ships going through that straight up hole moves
(01:28):
and that hasn't happened yet. We need to see oil
getting out of the Middle East into the refineries in
Southeast Asia who depend on it and who we depend on,
and what we're actually seeing there's still even if the
ceasefire holds, and even if there are no more missiles flying,
there's still been such a huge disruption to international oil
and energy markets that that's going to take a little
(01:48):
bit of a.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
While to unwind.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Now. Positive things are though, that the price of oil
has come down a bit. You would expect to see
that starting to flow through into prices. Well, it's been
so volatile that in terms of going up and down,
there is a lag between the oil price coming down
and then the refined price of fuel going down, because
of course the refined fuel we're pretty dead. That is
(02:10):
a very good point. So the Commerce Commission has put
the fuel companies on notice again with these oil prices
coming down, to say, we are watching very carefully to
make sure that when that your prices at the pump
do track what's happening internationally. So we are keeping a
very close eye on.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Now you know exactly what's going on, I mean right
the second, at the moment. I mean, when do you
believe that it's actually going to free up? When do
you actually I mean, I can't see, I can't see
a time frame in it.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I don't know more than you do about what's happening
in the mind of Donald Trump and the Iranian regime,
in the Israeli government, I have the same information as
you do in terms of will this cease fire hold,
will there be more escalation, Will we actually see that
straight of holl moves operating normally. There's still a lot
(03:00):
of water to go under that bridge. What I do
know is that right now I'm getting very good in
te dilligence and information from both our fuel important companies
but also fuel traders who are providing us with expert
advice that we are still getting our future orders of
fuel secured, that is happening, that is not looking disrupted
at the stage, and there's quite a degree of confidence
(03:21):
that we will keep being able to source fuel. We
as a government are also making really good progress towards
getting an extra buffer of reserve diesel into the country.
As you'll know, we've agreed to pay for extra storage
at Marsden Points so we can get another ninety million
liters of fuel. That's enough for about nine days. And
in addition, how quickly will that all happen? That storage
(03:43):
will be up and running by the end of May.
And we're pretty confident based on the discussions that we're
having commercially, that we'll be able to get a fuel
cargo at about that time.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What do we say too, And you listened to earlier edition,
you hear at you see text all the time about farmers.
Farmers are saying that they're not getting delivery of fuel.
I mean, it's not been mentioned anywhere in mainstream media,
but they're not getting their delivery? Is the problem a
little bit worse than what you're letting us know.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
No, I've been watching that issue very very closely. As
you know, we've got MP's in those rural communities, and
I can tell you the minute there's a stock out,
which is what they call it, they are on the
phone to me saying, Nichola, we've got an issue, and
then I'm immediately on the phone to my officials saying, hey,
we've got an issue here. Now what it comes to,
It's happened in the Odd region from time to time.
(04:30):
It's a distribution issue, and we've talked to both the
fuel important companies and the distributors about it. What they
did when there was that surge and demand for fuel
that you saw when people were worried that it was
going to run out, many of them moved from what
had been month delivery schedules to weak delivery schedules. And
what that meant was that people who would normally stock
up on a month's with were only able to stock
(04:52):
up on a week's worth, and that frustrated some people
and then they went to try and stock up elsewhere.
So it's a distribution issue. We've said to the fuel companies,
you need to make sure that's sorted, and they've made
adjustments to ensure that they are getting enough fuel into
those regions.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
We watch it really closely.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's actually one of the criteria that would make us
go into a phase two response if we kept on
seeing those regionals.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Can I just ask you quickly want to keep moving?
Do you feel more confident today than you did two
days ago?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
The progress with the ceasefire is positive. When I was
seeing those tweets from the US President talking about the
end of civilization, that was pretty alarming.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And we're not there now. We're in a better place now,
aren't we We are?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Can we as New Zealand? Can you as government? I mean,
we had Donald Trump in the States. We had Winston
Peters our Donald Trump in the States.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They're not quite the same Winston in some similarities.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Positively, we had them in the States. Can we do more?
Can New Zealand as a country do more in peace talks?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Well, we have been consistently across all of our diplomatic engagements,
whether that's Winston with Marco Rubio, our Prime minister, with
various prime ministers and presidents around the world, bringing our view,
which is we want to see de escalation, we want
to see negotiation, We want to see freedom of movement
through the strait of hor moves and that we are
prepared to support diplomatic efforts to do that. But we
(06:17):
have to be realistic. We're a small country of five
million people at the bottom of the world, where a
small voice in some of these conversations.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Okay, let's move on. Prime Minister's had a few fumbles
in the last week, hasn't he, including mistaking two of
his new cabinet ministers as ushes been caught up by
not knowing who Tama Potucker was, not saying who he was,
whether he was in cabinet or not. I mean, we've
seen this a bit lately. Is there something going on
that we don't know about?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh? No, who among us has not had a fumble?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It feels like, I mean, I'm the one that fumbles.
You just heard it more than anyone else. But it
kind of feels this is a little bit more than that.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, I think you're reading too much into it.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I was actually at that swearing in ceremony at Government
House and what didn't get reported was that the soon
to be ministers we're actually standing a bit behind the
door in the corner. So when the Governor General and
the Prime Minister walked in. They were actually out of eyeshot,
So that's why they didn't acknowledge them when they came in.
It was a pretty simple just a place something. It
wasn't that they didn't recognize them. For goodness sake, you.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Wouldn't have to be like a conspiracy theorist to see that.
You have been front and center during this crisis period.
You have been in control of it. You've been controlling
the media, and I'm the first of been doing a
great job at it, and the Prime Minister has been
paying second fiddle. People are seeing it well.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
No, I think that actually reflects that the Prime Minister,
as a very effective leader, made an early decision together
with our cabinet to appoint me as a lead minister
to oversee the economic response to the Iran conflict and
the fuel crisis. And that's actually part of what leaders do.
You put the right people into the right jobs. And
(08:00):
that's meant that right from the beginning, I've been having
these daily meetings with officials. I've been leading that response
in the for I'm all through the detail of it,
and so when I'm going to press conferences or talking
to the media, it is my job to respond to
their questions and so that's just that's just everyone having
their own responsibility in the team's.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Sort of getting around it, but not giving me the
answer I want because I kind of get this feeling
with the polls are telling a story. New Zealand's telling
a story now, I think, and I openly have said
on the show, I believe that Chrystoph lux should be
Prime Minister after the next election. So I'll put my
position there.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Man were agreed on that, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But I get the feeling and I'm not the only one.
Anyone smart would get the feeling that, you know, maybe
you're the person that should be leading them.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Well, I am very happy being the Minister of Finance,
the Minister of Economic Growth, the Minister for Social Investment,
being the deputy leader of the National Party in that role,
supporting the Prime Minister to do the best job he can.
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
What would you do if you on the door and
Christopher Luxan walks in and says, look, I'm done.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I've had an It's not going to happen then, fantasy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, But what would you do if he said we
I think you should you should front it. I think
you should do it.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well, I, first of all, I don't think that would
happen because I think that Chris Luxen has strength, he
has resilience. He's been taking flak from the from the
media and people basically from the day he became leader
of the National Party. He's used to it, and he
is leading well, and he leads our team. And actually
it's it's not ultimately a decision for him.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Or for me.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
It's about our caucus and their support for him. And
they support him because they can see that he has
assembled a very good team of National Party ministers. He's
managing quite a complex coalition, more complex coalition than we've
actually seen in m MP in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Why will not damn popular? Tell me why he's not popular? Well, look,
and he's not.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I think it's the wrong question. Is that is that
the goal when you're Prime minister to simply be popular. Now,
that is absolutely nice.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
To have, but very hard to win.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Your job is to.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Leave the country and to do it effectively. Well, I
have a lot of faith in New Zealanders. I think
when they come to this election, they're going to say, well,
the world is an unstable place. New Zealand's been through
some really difficult times. Our economy is fragile. Who do
I trust to lead this country to make sure it
is safe, that its future is protected, that it is resilient.
(10:33):
And they're going to look at a prime minister who's
proven he can lead a good coalition, proven he can
get things done, proven that he will be responsible in
his economic management, and they'll compare him to Chris Hopkins,
who proved during COVID that he doesn't manage economy as well,
and who would be joined by Debi Nario, a Packer, Rahwayt,
Chloe Swarbrick and Marta M. Davidson and would be trying
(10:55):
to juggle that as a coalition. And they'll go, well,
that's chaos, that's a mess.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Don't want it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And maybe New Zealand would look at the person that's
been leading us through our crisis and say, maybe that's
the person that we need. Is Minister Nikola. A lot
of talk and a lot of nervousness over the ocr
when it was announced, Anna Brennan Brennan Bremen Bremen said,
we're not going to move. We didn't change. What do
(11:19):
you think of her performance so far?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
I think she's doing a great job. She's a clear
community ca cat. She's consistent and when she says something,
she always has the facts and the data to back
it up. There's nothing off the cuff about her. She's
very measured and that's what I think we want to
see from Central Bank governor.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
When I first saw it, I thought to myself, that
could have been easy to move, could have been easy
to be jumpy and a less in controlled person straight
in the job you and the job might have been
reacted to that, But it was just felt like, I
hate using this terminology, but it's the only one I've
got an adult in the room.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah, look, I think that's right. And of course she
leads a committee, the Monetary Policy Committee, which is a
group of experts who deliberate on every decision with the
OC before she then goes out and presents that decision.
And they produced a record of their meeting quite transparently
about what they discussed, and what they said was, yes,
we can see that this increase in fuel prices will
(12:18):
lead to an immediate inflation uptick, but equally we can
see that that will reduce demand elsewhere in the economy
and mean that actually some parts of the economy might
slow down a bit, so those two things balance them out.
It's not the right thing to immediately react with an
interest rate hike, and so that was their judgment.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And have you spoken to her since?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Yes, I spoke to her on the day that she
made that presentation, and we do remain in very regular contact.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
How's your relationship with her? Is it like it's a.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Very good relationship.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
We have each have our own lanes that we need
to swim in, and she has to do her job
and I have to do my job independently of each other.
But equally, we've got so much in the world that
we're looking at at the same time. We're both obsessed
with what's happening with oil futures markets, what's happening with
central bank decisions and other parts of the world, what's
(13:09):
happening with wholesale interest rates internationally. So there's a lot
that we have in common to discuss very well informed.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I mean, you're the two most powerful women in the country,
so I'm quite interested in the relationship. Do you pick
up the phone and say, gosh, if you saw this,
have you've seen that? And does she pick up the
phone and go to you? What about this and what
about that?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Look, well it's a mixture of We have formal meetings
where I still have a role with the Reserve Bank,
so they have things on their work program and we
work through that, and then we have phone calls on
specific topics. Look, she's got kids who she moved out
here so that she could do this job. I've got kids.
We are both women and senior leadership roles, and so
(13:48):
I think we do have a lot in common and
I genuinely like her.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
She's here for the long term.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah, she's here for a five year term as Reserve
Bank governor. That's the commitment she's made.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Minister of Transport Chris Bishop is saying that the Roads
of National Significance Plan may have to be reduced due
to cost. What's what's actually happening with it? I mean,
more specifically for Wellington. I mean where does that leave us?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Look, one of the complaints people raise with me quite
a lot, as they say, why does it cost so
much to build roads in New Zealand? Billions and billions
of dollars for quite small stretches of roads. And it's
a fair point. And so what Chross Bishop has been
working through with MZTA is what is driving these big
costs for some of these roads, because of course, if
we can bring those costs down, that's more money to
(14:33):
invest elsewhere in the roading system, whether that's on maintenance
or whether that's rebuilding some of these roads affected by
cyclones and the like. So it's looking at everything from
are we building them too wide? Are we using the
wrong materials? Are the design specs too hard? And so
he is going through that with the NZ.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
What you gut what's your gut feeling on you know,
you'd spend a bit of time on this. What's your
gut feeling about the second Mount Victoria Tunnel and the
Patoni to Grenada? Do you reckon they're going to go ahead?
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yes, I do, But the question will be on what timeline.
So some workers already underw they've done kind of the
geotechnical work, a lot more of the design work, they've
acquired some of the property that they need in order
that they can build it, and the question will just
be the sequence of which roads get built in which order.
Because as I've been reminding you on the show for
(15:21):
some time, New Zealand isn't swimming in cash at the moment,
we are in deficit. We do have a lot of debt,
so we do need to sequence projects and prioritize them carefully.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
You may you'll be well under your planning for budget.
Has that changed anything over the past month if you
had to readjust stuff for the budget.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yes, I have, because we've had to prioritize some things
that otherwise we wouldn't have prioritized. You know, for example,
that three hundred and fifty four million to make sure
that we can get some extra support to low and
middle income families really affected by higher fuel bills. So
that's an extra thing that we need to fund in
the budget. Making sure we've got the extra support for
(15:56):
home and support care workers who have to drive around
homes for work. We have to fit that into the budget.
There are other things that as a result of the
high fuel price, we have to fit into the bus.
So that's meant I've had to get the ruler out,
go line by line, go through everything else again and say, well,
in light of the crisis we're in, is this really
still the price?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Do you think it's going to hurt us?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I think it is not going to be flashing to
the government books because the whole world got poorer when
the US started this conflict, and that is showing up
all around the world. Higher inflation also means lower growth.
New Zealanders are feeling that in their own back pockets
keep we businesses are feeling that, and that flows through
(16:37):
to the government books. That flows through to how much
revenue we expect to get. You know, there's been this
thing of people saying, oh, this is the government will
be raking in more tax ah when things like this happen,
actually we reckon less tax I think that's a tricky
place to be in.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I was thinking, sorry to interrupt her, I was driving
into work this morning and I was thinking to myself,
there's an election at the end of the year, and
there's all this talk of the coalition. Are you all
three going to stand holding hands? All three of you
going to be fighting each other on the post?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
What I expect, and it's up to act in New
Zealand first to decide how their campaign. But what I
expect is that we'll say, look, yep, we can all
govern together. We can do a good job together. But
here's why my party is better than those other ones.
Because I tell you what, it's very much. My recommendation
to New Zealanders do not vote for New Zealand First,
do not vote for ACT. If you want a strong,
(17:27):
stable government, the best thing you can do is ensure
the National Party has as many party votes as possible,
because the firmer hand that we have in the coalition,
the more stable your government will be and the more
things that we will get done. And I also happen
to think that our policies are much better, that we
are more fiscally responsible than New Zealand First will ever be,
(17:48):
that we are more compassionate than ACT will ever be.
We are the party that you quate for.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So that answers my question. You will go at each other.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah, I do not want people voting for New Zealand
First and ACT. I want those votes, and so I
will be competing for them.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Okay, Crystal Ball guays here six months time, just before
the election, how much better off am I going to be?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well? I think that you will be better off in
the sense that your country has had some better economic
management put in a place.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
How I'm going to be better? Every one of our
listeners is going to be better. We know that our
country is the most beautiful fantastic world and it's got
all these problems. But how am I, if you're looking
out at our listeners going to be better off?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Well, I think compared to three years ago, you're going
to be safer in your community. We are seeing less crime,
we are seeing fewer ram raids. I think you're going
to be waiting less time to get an operation at
your local hospital, to get a specialist appointment than was
the case three years ago. I think your kids will
be achieving more at school than they were, and they'll
be being taught more structured literacy and numeracy. They'll be
(18:57):
doing reading, writing and maths in a way that they
weren't previously. I think in terms of you, you're paying
less tax than you were three years ago, and you've
got a government that's got a much firmer eye on
keeping inflation under control and keeping the government books in
order than was the case, which puts you in a
more safe and secure position economically, and so I think
(19:18):
you will be better off in some ways.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I am the first to acknowledge that for some families
that's been a grind and they don't feel financially a
lot better off than they did. And so I think
the question that we'll be asking New Zealanders to contemplate
is yep, New Zealand's had to face into a whole
bunch of international and local challenges. Do you really think
if Labor had been in charge they would have done
(19:41):
a better job? And the answer to that, by the way,
is no.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's always a pleasure. I felt like I just had
a political brainwash. Thank you for coming and I have
a great weekend. It's a big weekend in Wellington, as
I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I know you, it's exciting for the city. This Ultra
thing sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I won't be there.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I don't think anyone wants to set Finance Minister dancing
at Ultra, but.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Going to be there, awesome?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Are You're going to have a boogie.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I'm definitely going to be having a boogie.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Go fram enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
They sold thousands of tickets to people over sixty. Really,
it's awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
They're so cool.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
We'll have the time to have a great time until
all the Wellingtonians going enjoy and spend some money at
the local restaurants and shops while you're at it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Finance Medister Nicola, what I was always a pleased to
thank you for taking time out of a very busy
schedule to talk to us.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Have been joined by Nikola Willis, our finance minister. She
looks amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning. That's a nice way to start the show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, you do look amazing. That top is great.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Ah, thank you and people will.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Be able to see it because Shamus as well.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
I can tell you it's a New Zealand designer called
Caitlyn Crisps.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And we found out that you don't have a stylist
because I thought you've been looking very stylish lately, and
I said, your stylust is doing a good job and
you don't have one.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
No, I've never had a stylist. I am my own stylist.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I have bought some new clothes recently, so that's probably
what you're seeing.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I'm glad that you like them.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Thinks.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Okay, right, let's get into the tough stuff. Is there
a ceasefire or no ceasefire? There is the war still going?
Is it not going? We still can't get petrol? And
so you as the person that's been the face of
it and done it once again, positive, very good job
of it. That doesn't help you, does it?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We're not there yet.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
You know, what I think everyone in New Zealand wants
to see is the price of petrol and diesel coming down,
and they want to see that we've got security of
fuel supply into the future. And we're not yet in
a position where we can guarantee that the ceasefire is progress.
But there's a lot of ifs now. We need to
see that it continues. We also need to see normal
amounts of ships going through that straight up hole moves
(01:28):
and that hasn't happened yet. We need to see oil
getting out of the Middle East into the refineries in
Southeast Asia who depend on it and who we depend on,
and what we're actually seeing there's still even if the
ceasefire holds, and even if there are no more missiles flying,
there's still been such a huge disruption to international oil
and energy markets that that's going to take a little
(01:48):
bit of a.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
While to unwind.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Now. Positive things are though, that the price of oil
has come down a bit. You would expect to see
that starting to flow through into prices. Well, it's been
so volatile that in terms of going up and down,
there is a lag between the oil price coming down
and then the refined price of fuel going down, because
of course the refined fuel we're pretty dead. That is
(02:10):
a very good point. So the Commerce Commission has put
the fuel companies on notice again with these oil prices
coming down, to say, we are watching very carefully to
make sure that when that your prices at the pump
do track what's happening internationally. So we are keeping a
very close eye on.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Now you know exactly what's going on, I mean right
the second, at the moment. I mean, when do you
believe that it's actually going to free up? When do
you actually I mean, I can't see, I can't see
a time frame in it.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I don't know more than you do about what's happening
in the mind of Donald Trump and the Iranian regime,
in the Israeli government, I have the same information as
you do in terms of will this cease fire hold,
will there be more escalation, Will we actually see that
straight of holl moves operating normally. There's still a lot
(03:00):
of water to go under that bridge. What I do
know is that right now I'm getting very good in
te dilligence and information from both our fuel important companies
but also fuel traders who are providing us with expert
advice that we are still getting our future orders of
fuel secured, that is happening, that is not looking disrupted
at the stage, and there's quite a degree of confidence
(03:21):
that we will keep being able to source fuel. We
as a government are also making really good progress towards
getting an extra buffer of reserve diesel into the country.
As you'll know, we've agreed to pay for extra storage
at Marsden Points so we can get another ninety million
liters of fuel. That's enough for about nine days. And
in addition, how quickly will that all happen? That storage
(03:43):
will be up and running by the end of May.
And we're pretty confident based on the discussions that we're
having commercially, that we'll be able to get a fuel
cargo at about that time.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What do we say too, And you listened to earlier edition,
you hear at you see text all the time about farmers.
Farmers are saying that they're not getting delivery of fuel.
I mean, it's not been mentioned anywhere in mainstream media,
but they're not getting their delivery? Is the problem a
little bit worse than what you're letting us know.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
No, I've been watching that issue very very closely. As
you know, we've got MP's in those rural communities, and
I can tell you the minute there's a stock out,
which is what they call it, they are on the
phone to me saying, Nichola, we've got an issue, and
then I'm immediately on the phone to my officials saying, hey,
we've got an issue here. Now what it comes to,
It's happened in the Odd region from time to time.
(04:30):
It's a distribution issue, and we've talked to both the
fuel important companies and the distributors about it. What they
did when there was that surge and demand for fuel
that you saw when people were worried that it was
going to run out, many of them moved from what
had been month delivery schedules to weak delivery schedules. And
what that meant was that people who would normally stock
up on a month's with were only able to stock
(04:52):
up on a week's worth, and that frustrated some people
and then they went to try and stock up elsewhere.
So it's a distribution issue. We've said to the fuel companies,
you need to make sure that's sorted, and they've made
adjustments to ensure that they are getting enough fuel into
those regions.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
We watch it really closely.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's actually one of the criteria that would make us
go into a phase two response if we kept on
seeing those regionals.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Can I just ask you quickly want to keep moving?
Do you feel more confident today than you did two
days ago?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
The progress with the ceasefire is positive. When I was
seeing those tweets from the US President talking about the
end of civilization, that was pretty alarming.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And we're not there now. We're in a better place now,
aren't we We are?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Can we as New Zealand? Can you as government? I mean,
we had Donald Trump in the States. We had Winston
Peters our Donald Trump in the States.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They're not quite the same Winston in some similarities.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Positively, we had them in the States. Can we do more?
Can New Zealand as a country do more in peace talks?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Well, we have been consistently across all of our diplomatic engagements,
whether that's Winston with Marco Rubio, our Prime minister, with
various prime ministers and presidents around the world, bringing our view,
which is we want to see de escalation, we want
to see negotiation, We want to see freedom of movement
through the strait of hor moves and that we are
prepared to support diplomatic efforts to do that. But we
(06:17):
have to be realistic. We're a small country of five
million people at the bottom of the world, where a
small voice in some of these conversations.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Okay, let's move on. Prime Minister's had a few fumbles
in the last week, hasn't he, including mistaking two of
his new cabinet ministers as ushes been caught up by
not knowing who Tama Potucker was, not saying who he was,
whether he was in cabinet or not. I mean, we've
seen this a bit lately. Is there something going on
that we don't know about?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh? No, who among us has not had a fumble?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It feels like, I mean, I'm the one that fumbles.
You just heard it more than anyone else. But it
kind of feels this is a little bit more than that.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, I think you're reading too much into it.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I was actually at that swearing in ceremony at Government
House and what didn't get reported was that the soon
to be ministers we're actually standing a bit behind the
door in the corner. So when the Governor General and
the Prime Minister walked in. They were actually out of eyeshot,
So that's why they didn't acknowledge them when they came in.
It was a pretty simple just a place something. It
wasn't that they didn't recognize them. For goodness sake, you.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Wouldn't have to be like a conspiracy theorist to see that.
You have been front and center during this crisis period.
You have been in control of it. You've been controlling
the media, and I'm the first of been doing a
great job at it, and the Prime Minister has been
paying second fiddle. People are seeing it well.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
No, I think that actually reflects that the Prime Minister,
as a very effective leader, made an early decision together
with our cabinet to appoint me as a lead minister
to oversee the economic response to the Iran conflict and
the fuel crisis. And that's actually part of what leaders do.
You put the right people into the right jobs. And
(08:00):
that's meant that right from the beginning, I've been having
these daily meetings with officials. I've been leading that response
in the for I'm all through the detail of it,
and so when I'm going to press conferences or talking
to the media, it is my job to respond to
their questions and so that's just that's just everyone having
their own responsibility in the team's.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Sort of getting around it, but not giving me the
answer I want because I kind of get this feeling
with the polls are telling a story. New Zealand's telling
a story now, I think, and I openly have said
on the show, I believe that Chrystoph lux should be
Prime Minister after the next election. So I'll put my
position there.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Man were agreed on that, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But I get the feeling and I'm not the only one.
Anyone smart would get the feeling that, you know, maybe
you're the person that should be leading them.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Well, I am very happy being the Minister of Finance,
the Minister of Economic Growth, the Minister for Social Investment,
being the deputy leader of the National Party in that role,
supporting the Prime Minister to do the best job he can.
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
What would you do if you on the door and
Christopher Luxan walks in and says, look, I'm done.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I've had an It's not going to happen then, fantasy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, But what would you do if he said we
I think you should you should front it. I think
you should do it.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Well, I, first of all, I don't think that would
happen because I think that Chris Luxen has strength, he
has resilience. He's been taking flak from the from the
media and people basically from the day he became leader
of the National Party. He's used to it, and he
is leading well, and he leads our team. And actually
it's it's not ultimately a decision for him.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Or for me.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
It's about our caucus and their support for him. And
they support him because they can see that he has
assembled a very good team of National Party ministers. He's
managing quite a complex coalition, more complex coalition than we've
actually seen in m MP in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Why will not damn popular? Tell me why he's not popular? Well, look,
and he's not.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I think it's the wrong question. Is that is that
the goal when you're Prime minister to simply be popular. Now,
that is absolutely nice.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
To have, but very hard to win.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Your job is to.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Leave the country and to do it effectively. Well, I
have a lot of faith in New Zealanders. I think
when they come to this election, they're going to say, well,
the world is an unstable place. New Zealand's been through
some really difficult times. Our economy is fragile. Who do
I trust to lead this country to make sure it
is safe, that its future is protected, that it is resilient.
(10:33):
And they're going to look at a prime minister who's
proven he can lead a good coalition, proven he can
get things done, proven that he will be responsible in
his economic management, and they'll compare him to Chris Hopkins,
who proved during COVID that he doesn't manage economy as well,
and who would be joined by Debi Nario, a Packer, Rahwayt,
Chloe Swarbrick and Marta M. Davidson and would be trying
(10:55):
to juggle that as a coalition. And they'll go, well,
that's chaos, that's a mess.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Don't want it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And maybe New Zealand would look at the person that's
been leading us through our crisis and say, maybe that's
the person that we need. Is Minister Nikola. A lot
of talk and a lot of nervousness over the ocr
when it was announced, Anna Brennan Brennan Bremen Bremen said,
we're not going to move. We didn't change. What do
(11:19):
you think of her performance so far?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
I think she's doing a great job. She's a clear
community ca cat. She's consistent and when she says something,
she always has the facts and the data to back
it up. There's nothing off the cuff about her. She's
very measured and that's what I think we want to
see from Central Bank governor.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
When I first saw it, I thought to myself, that
could have been easy to move, could have been easy
to be jumpy and a less in controlled person straight
in the job you and the job might have been
reacted to that, But it was just felt like, I
hate using this terminology, but it's the only one I've
got an adult in the room.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah, look, I think that's right. And of course she
leads a committee, the Monetary Policy Committee, which is a
group of experts who deliberate on every decision with the
OC before she then goes out and presents that decision.
And they produced a record of their meeting quite transparently
about what they discussed, and what they said was, yes,
we can see that this increase in fuel prices will
(12:18):
lead to an immediate inflation uptick, but equally we can
see that that will reduce demand elsewhere in the economy
and mean that actually some parts of the economy might
slow down a bit, so those two things balance them out.
It's not the right thing to immediately react with an
interest rate hike, and so that was their judgment.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And have you spoken to her since?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Yes, I spoke to her on the day that she
made that presentation, and we do remain in very regular contact.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
How's your relationship with her? Is it like it's a.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Very good relationship.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
We have each have our own lanes that we need
to swim in, and she has to do her job
and I have to do my job independently of each other.
But equally, we've got so much in the world that
we're looking at at the same time. We're both obsessed
with what's happening with oil futures markets, what's happening with
central bank decisions and other parts of the world, what's
(13:09):
happening with wholesale interest rates internationally. So there's a lot
that we have in common to discuss very well informed.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I mean, you're the two most powerful women in the country,
so I'm quite interested in the relationship. Do you pick
up the phone and say, gosh, if you saw this,
have you've seen that? And does she pick up the
phone and go to you? What about this and what
about that?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Look, well it's a mixture of We have formal meetings
where I still have a role with the Reserve Bank,
so they have things on their work program and we
work through that, and then we have phone calls on
specific topics. Look, she's got kids who she moved out
here so that she could do this job. I've got kids.
We are both women and senior leadership roles, and so
(13:48):
I think we do have a lot in common and
I genuinely like her.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
She's here for the long term.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah, she's here for a five year term as Reserve
Bank governor. That's the commitment she's made.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Minister of Transport Chris Bishop is saying that the Roads
of National Significance Plan may have to be reduced due
to cost. What's what's actually happening with it? I mean,
more specifically for Wellington. I mean where does that leave us?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Look, one of the complaints people raise with me quite
a lot, as they say, why does it cost so
much to build roads in New Zealand? Billions and billions
of dollars for quite small stretches of roads. And it's
a fair point. And so what Chross Bishop has been
working through with MZTA is what is driving these big
costs for some of these roads, because of course, if
we can bring those costs down, that's more money to
(14:33):
invest elsewhere in the roading system, whether that's on maintenance
or whether that's rebuilding some of these roads affected by
cyclones and the like. So it's looking at everything from
are we building them too wide? Are we using the
wrong materials? Are the design specs too hard? And so
he is going through that with the NZ.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
What you gut what's your gut feeling on you know,
you'd spend a bit of time on this. What's your
gut feeling about the second Mount Victoria Tunnel and the
Patoni to Grenada? Do you reckon they're going to go ahead?
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yes, I do, But the question will be on what timeline.
So some workers already underw they've done kind of the
geotechnical work, a lot more of the design work, they've
acquired some of the property that they need in order
that they can build it, and the question will just
be the sequence of which roads get built in which order.
Because as I've been reminding you on the show for
(15:21):
some time, New Zealand isn't swimming in cash at the moment,
we are in deficit. We do have a lot of debt,
so we do need to sequence projects and prioritize them carefully.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
You may you'll be well under your planning for budget.
Has that changed anything over the past month if you
had to readjust stuff for the budget.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yes, I have, because we've had to prioritize some things
that otherwise we wouldn't have prioritized. You know, for example,
that three hundred and fifty four million to make sure
that we can get some extra support to low and
middle income families really affected by higher fuel bills. So
that's an extra thing that we need to fund in
the budget. Making sure we've got the extra support for
(15:56):
home and support care workers who have to drive around
homes for work. We have to fit that into the budget.
There are other things that as a result of the
high fuel price, we have to fit into the bus.
So that's meant I've had to get the ruler out,
go line by line, go through everything else again and say, well,
in light of the crisis we're in, is this really
still the price?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Do you think it's going to hurt us?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I think it is not going to be flashing to
the government books because the whole world got poorer when
the US started this conflict, and that is showing up
all around the world. Higher inflation also means lower growth.
New Zealanders are feeling that in their own back pockets
keep we businesses are feeling that, and that flows through
(16:37):
to the government books. That flows through to how much
revenue we expect to get. You know, there's been this
thing of people saying, oh, this is the government will
be raking in more tax ah when things like this happen,
actually we reckon less tax I think that's a tricky
place to be in.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I was thinking, sorry to interrupt her, I was driving
into work this morning and I was thinking to myself,
there's an election at the end of the year, and
there's all this talk of the coalition. Are you all
three going to stand holding hands? All three of you
going to be fighting each other on the post?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
What I expect, and it's up to act in New
Zealand first to decide how their campaign. But what I
expect is that we'll say, look, yep, we can all
govern together. We can do a good job together. But
here's why my party is better than those other ones.
Because I tell you what, it's very much. My recommendation
to New Zealanders do not vote for New Zealand First,
do not vote for ACT. If you want a strong,
(17:27):
stable government, the best thing you can do is ensure
the National Party has as many party votes as possible,
because the firmer hand that we have in the coalition,
the more stable your government will be and the more
things that we will get done. And I also happen
to think that our policies are much better, that we
are more fiscally responsible than New Zealand First will ever be,
(17:48):
that we are more compassionate than ACT will ever be.
We are the party that you quate for.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So that answers my question. You will go at each other.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah, I do not want people voting for New Zealand
First and ACT. I want those votes, and so I
will be competing for them.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Okay, Crystal Ball guays here six months time, just before
the election, how much better off am I going to be?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well? I think that you will be better off in
the sense that your country has had some better economic
management put in a place.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
How I'm going to be better? Every one of our
listeners is going to be better. We know that our
country is the most beautiful fantastic world and it's got
all these problems. But how am I, if you're looking
out at our listeners going to be better off?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Well, I think compared to three years ago, you're going
to be safer in your community. We are seeing less crime,
we are seeing fewer ram raids. I think you're going
to be waiting less time to get an operation at
your local hospital, to get a specialist appointment than was
the case three years ago. I think your kids will
be achieving more at school than they were, and they'll
be being taught more structured literacy and numeracy. They'll be
(18:57):
doing reading, writing and maths in a way that they
weren't previously. I think in terms of you, you're paying
less tax than you were three years ago, and you've
got a government that's got a much firmer eye on
keeping inflation under control and keeping the government books in
order than was the case, which puts you in a
more safe and secure position economically, and so I think
(19:18):
you will be better off in some ways.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I am the first to acknowledge that for some families
that's been a grind and they don't feel financially a
lot better off than they did. And so I think
the question that we'll be asking New Zealanders to contemplate
is yep, New Zealand's had to face into a whole
bunch of international and local challenges. Do you really think
if Labor had been in charge they would have done
(19:41):
a better job? And the answer to that, by the way,
is no.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's always a pleasure. I felt like I just had
a political brainwash. Thank you for coming and I have
a great weekend. It's a big weekend in Wellington, as
I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I know you, it's exciting for the city. This Ultra
thing sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I won't be there.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I don't think anyone wants to set Finance Minister dancing
at Ultra, but.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Going to be there, awesome?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Are You're going to have a boogie.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I'm definitely going to be having a boogie.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Go fram enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
They sold thousands of tickets to people over sixty. Really,
it's awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
They're so cool.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
We'll have the time to have a great time until
all the Wellingtonians going enjoy and spend some money at
the local restaurants and shops while you're at it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Finance Medister Nicola, what I was always a pleased to
thank you for taking time out of a very busy
schedule to talk to us.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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