March 5, 2026 • 21 mins
Finance Minister Nicola Willis joins Nick Mills in the studio for her monthly catch up.
The latest poll from the Taxpayer Union and Curia has National at 28.4% - the lowest for the party since it formed Government in 2023.
Nick questions Luxon's leadership and asks Willis - is there any hope for Luxon as Prime Minister.
These numbers mean the left block could form a government, and is Nationals lowest result while in government since November 1999.
They also discuss the effects that Kiwis could have to deal with from the Iran conflict, and what the government has planned to ease financial pressure.
Plus, where is the Wellington North candidate - has Wellington been neglected this election?
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Promised Finance Minister Nikola Wis joins us on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I got a bit of jet lag. I spent the
day in Auckland yesterday. Jet leg, you know, leg, jet
lag and crowd.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Maybe the jet lag effects people of a certain aide for.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
More than others.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Start having to crack at me earlier. That's not the
way you want to start. You don't want to start
it crack at the host.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Fit's terrible. I'm very sorry to hear about your jet
legs and the frog and your throat.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Right, let's talk about the thing you've attacked me. I'm
going to come back at you New Zealand Taxpayers Union
Courier Bowl. Aren't they your friends? Are they the ones
that try and get you all the time? Are they
the same ones?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well? Yeah, that is the okay.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well they show that National is about twenty eight percent support.
Now I was trying to work out whether that was
the worst ever, but it's only slightly above the twenty
five point six result in twenty twenty lex and one
of your worst results ever. Now this talk again leadership change.
What are your thoughts when you give us your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, it's obviously not a good number, and put it
this way, that's a poll. But if that was the
number that National got on the actual election, that would
not be an acceptable result. We have to do better
than that, and we need to look at that number
and consider what New Zealanders are saying and what they're thinking.
The bit that gives me real concern is that I think,
(01:35):
as I understand, on those numbers, what New Zealand would
get is a labor led government supported by the Greens
and a party Marty.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I know that's the narrative. I know that's your narrative,
and I know I get that, and I get that
you know you're going to have you know, the mayor
is controlling this and the Green's controlling it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But right now you've got a problem because somewhere somebody
doesn't like something about your organization and you've got to
fix it quickly, and it's looking like you Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Well, as I've just said to you, I'm not happy
with that number. I don't think our National Party team
would be happy with that number. I don't think the
Prime Minister would be satisfied with that number. Absolutely, we
need to do better than that because the risk if
we're polling at that level is most importantly and and
I do sincerely think this is worth considering, is that
(02:28):
there could be a change of government. And I do
think that would be terrible for New Zealand because yes,
we have not been a perfect govern Yes there are
people who are struggling, but it's also the case that
we're making progress and we could put all of that
progress at risk with a change of government.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I get you one hundred percent, but right now
there's too much chatter about whether you have the right leader.
We have the right prime minister in place now and
that's the chatter.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, I think what you're reflecting is that the Prime
Minister has had a challenging week and I actually respect
him beinglnerable enough to say, well, actually I misspoke during
the week, and there has been a lot of focus
on that. I always think it's good when people do
Admitch they didn't get something quite right. We are living
in a very complex and difficult time and he is
(03:21):
being asked to give yees no answers to questions that
are pretty subtle, have a lot of complexity, and he
hasn't been able to give yes no answers, and the
media obviously have highlighted that, and he's admitted that he
mist spoke on an occasion. So I don't think it's
been it's a great a week for the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Let's be really fair and honest. It's not a week.
This has been going on for a while. It was
only a couple of months ago there was talk of
a coup that got OVERHRG. This hasn't been about a week.
This is somebody and I like you like him, and
I think he's a great prime minister. So don't think
that I'm picking on him, because I'm not. But there
is something going on and we've got a problem.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, I just think if you look across the world
right now, there are many incumber governments and many leaders
who have found that the popularity levels they have had
are not the way they've been in the past. You're
seeing it world over. It is very challenging and it
reflects the fact that I think New Zealanders and many
(04:23):
people across the community have had an incredibly tough time.
And when you're having an incredibly tough time. You look
to the government, You look to the Prime Minister as
the figurehead for that government.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And is he the right figurehead for that? Is he
the right leader for the situation? Take everything out of
the equation. It's a leadership thing. We're talking We're not
talking about the government. We're talking about a leadership. Is
he the right guy?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, he has the backing of the caucus.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And you're not giving me an answer is he the
right guy? I mean, it's a simple yes or no answer.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yes, yes, I am giving you that answer, which is
that I'm saying he has the backing of the National
Party caucus. And what is really important for New Zealanders
is that we are a unified team. He also, of course,
is keeping that coalition unified, which is very important for
the stability of the country and is very important for
New Zealander's everyday live So with those two things in place,
(05:16):
he is in a very challenging job, as leaders around
the world are right now. But I think he's doing
a good job of it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Do you think we'll have a cup before now in
the election? No, you really don't believe that. No, you
believe that everyone is happy and content and we're going
to get through this, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
To lear edge, I think you have to understand that
National Party in peas and ministers really do come to
Parliament to serve New Zealand. And when I look around
the world right now, I see conflict in Iran that is,
by some measures worsening. I see global economic implications which
are certainly going to have effects here at home. I
(05:57):
see a country that is coming through the back of
a very challenging time. And our National Party team recognize
that what New Zealanders don't want to see is us
focused on ourselves and who's who in the zoo. They
want to see stability, unity, a prime minister leading, keeping
our coalition strongly together.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Okay, let's move on, because you brought it up and
I mean it's very very important to us. RN. How
does that as Finance minister effect? I mean, are you
sitting there worrying about how much oil? How much you
know what is going to cost? Are you preparing for
it to get worse or preparing for it to get better?
I mean, how is it for you?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Well, for me, it means that I like I'm sure
many New Zealanders and watching international developments very closely. I'm
clicking on the international newspapers, but I also get formal
briefings from the New Zealand Treasury Treasury. It's about twice
a day. I'm getting a verbal briefing, but I'm also
getting a briefing in writing. And what we're doing is
monitoring what's happening with the things that will have the
(06:55):
biggest impact for New Zealand. So number one, what's happening
with the oil price, because of course that affects what
you pay at the pump, but it also affects overall
like the cost of getting things around the country, very
freight food. It has implications for inflation. So we're watching
that very closely. Where we've been monitoring our fuel security situation.
(07:15):
Of course, we have quite a lot of fuel in
the country already and a lot already on its way.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
How long do we have do we have?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We have twenty eight days of fuel in the country
at any one time as a regulatory minimum, although I
want to acknowledge many fuel companies and others keep more
than is the minimum required, and so they have more
than that, And then of course some of them already
have fuel in transit here, so that immediate fuel security
situation is in hand, but there's no getting away from
(07:41):
the fact that a higher oil price means New Zealand
is paying higher prices. What that also means is that
the Treasury are working closely with the Reserve Bank, of course,
have that responsibility for keeping inflation low and stable and
keeping it between one and three percent over the medium term.
They need to be monitoring what's happening with all of
that information. And then we're thinking about our exporters, because
(08:03):
as you've seen, the Strait of Hormuz is in a
really difficult, challenged state. We don't know how long that
will go on.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
For what's your advice, it's your advice, it's going to
be short or long.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, quite genuinely, people aren't able to predict whether it
will be short or long because to understand that, I
think you'd have to have really inside information about what
the Iranian regime of thinking and what Trump's next move
is going to be. And I just can't honestly look
at you and say that I know any better than
anyone else what that's going to be. But what you're
(08:37):
seeing from international markets is they're trying to guess how
long is this thing going to last. And what you
saw initially was the oil price didn't rise that much.
It's risen throughout the week, and that seems to be
the market saying, okay, this might last a little bit
longer than we first predicted.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
What have you got up in your armor to actually
make us stable in New Zealand. I mean, it's been
a hell of a run, hasn't it. I mean, you know,
everything that's just kept coming at you. Tariffs, recession, war
hasn't been playing saying it yet.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, I'm really conscious that for New Zealanders, they came
through COVID out the other side of that into a
cost of living crisis, then an interest rates sought up,
then the economy is struggled. We've been coming through that,
but we've been hit by conflict, weather events. It's been
a really tough time for New Zealanders. But look, when
I look at it, New Zealand actually, relative to other countries,
(09:32):
is better placed. And that's for a couple of reasons.
The first, and forgive me for being slightly emotional about
it as a mum. You know, we're on the other
side of the world. There is no risk that missiles
are going to be flying over our kids' schools or
that we're going to be invaded anytime soon. That counts
for something not only in terms of peace and security,
but also the way that businesses and investors around the
(09:52):
world look at us. We're a relatively safe place right now.
Second thing is we're pretty resilient because our exporters. Yes, yes,
we export to the Middle East, but fewer than five
percent of our exports go to the Middle East. We
have a range of other markets that we can still access,
and our exporters are very adaptive and resilient. They've proved
(10:12):
that in recent times. And then the third thing is
we've got a really good disciplined government and reserve bank
in place who are managing the economy prudently. And it's
at times like this that I'm reminded why it is
important you are focused on what you're spending and what
your debt levels are, and how you're ensuring your monetary
policy is correct. And we've got good, stable, steady settings.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Can I just ask you, We've got now text machines
lit up with people texting why are we paying more
for our petrol now? If our supplies are bought before
and we've got twenty eight days worth a supply.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, look, that is a good question, and you will
have heard the AA from time to time talk about
the rocket and feather effect, which is whereby what you
don't want to see is price is going up in
a crisis quickly and then only coming down slowly when
the crisis is over. Now, the Commerce Commission have a
function here which they monitor what's happening with fuel prices,
(11:07):
and they will be doing that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So it's just a matter of the big boys just
having an opportunity to marke.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I haven't seen an analysis of what's happening across the board.
I think you'll still be in a situation where you
should be shopping around and looking for who's got the
best price, because it is fair to say that the
fuel companies should already have the fuel in the market
that they're currently selling at the pump. Now they will
be reflecting on what's happening with the oil price. That
(11:33):
started at about seventy two dollars last week before the conflict,
it's now up over eighty dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
But for can you see that getting to one hundred.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, look, the market hasn't priced that in yet. But
their question the market will be asking is what will
happen to overall fuel supplies? How long the conflict goes
on as the critical is the critical piece for that.
But just for context, when Russia invaded Ukraine, oil spiked
to one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel pretty quickly.
(12:03):
We haven't seen that. This conflict's been going on all
week and it's gone from seventy two it's now up
over eighty I think around eighty five, but we still
haven't seen the huge spike that you saw in the
Russian Ukrainian conflict.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Nikola Willis is with us in the studio. Finance Minister
while into North confuses me. Firstly, I'm confused that you're
not standing there. Labor and Greens have announced that they've
got Aishaverra and Tamitha Paul do very strong names and
people running. Why isn't there a superstar from national standing.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Well, we simply haven't completed our selection process yet. We
will complete that selection process and I can guarantee to
you that we will have a strong candidate Wellington North
and look, the selection process always unfolds on a confidential timeline,
but we'll have a good candidate.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
A good candidate doesn't cut it for me. I mean,
we already are a city, and I know that you're
part of our city as well, has been part of
the government. But we're already a city where we feel
that this government, this coalition government, doesn't give a rats
about us. We've had a Prime Minister to say that,
you know, every time he can knock Wellington, he does.
And now we don't have Nikola Willis standing. Who is
a superstar would be? I imagine the race between Aishavi
(13:21):
or Tamoth the Ball and Nikola Willis. I mean, that
would be one hell of a race. So why and
you can't tell me you've got, you know, someone that's
a superstar sitting in the background. It won't be. It'll
be just someone that national likes, feels okay, looks good
in the suit, and away we go.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Oh well, look, we'll have a strong candidate and each
of us in the National Party have a role to play.
And the role that the National Party Board and my
team have asked me to play is to really focus
on that economic and finance agenda to ensure that I'm
doing everything I can to grow the party vote across
the country, and I think I just point that out.
I mean, your listeners know this. But of course electric
(14:02):
representation is very important. We're proud of all of our
electric imp across the country. But ultimately what decides the
formation of the government is how many party votes a
party gets, not how many electorates it wins. And so
we are very focused on raising our party vote in
every area, particularly here in Wellington. Absolutely we want to
see more people voting for us as a government. And
(14:23):
I sometimes reflect, and it's cheeky of me, I know,
but I do say. I look at Wellington, I say, well,
what's something about Wellington that's gone wrong. Well, one of
the things is all of the MP's are either Labor
or Green MPs, and the council is dominated by Labor
and the Greens.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And to be fair, that's that's because you've never put
up anyone strong.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I mean I put myself up last year. Look, I
respect democracy, you know. Greg o' connor and I had
a good race together. I think we both gave it
out all and he put me at the post. And
that is that the people spoke.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Why is it that we have this feeling in Wearrington
that that this government doesn't really care about us.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, we do care about you. Let me let me
be you know, just blunt about that. We care very
much about the city. We want it to do well,
and we see huge potential for the city. I mean,
you know, today we've had Peter Jackson as just one
one of the biggest film awards in the world, and
he lives right here in Wellington. Not only does he
live here, but he's invested in it. He wants to
(15:25):
keep doing great things here. We have Volpara, which is
one of the leading breast cancer diagnostic tools in the world.
This is the place where Zero was born. This is
the place where trade Me was born. This is the
place where Cheesy's was born. We have a digital software community. People.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
We understood, we understand how good we are, but we
want to know why the.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Government times well, you know, we do think that. But
my reflection on Wellington of late is that we've been
forgetting all the things that are really great about us
because there's been some pretty crappy things to choose a
word going to going on. There's been there's been some
really bad things happening in the city, and of course
it's right that everyone focuses on that, But we do
(16:08):
have awesome things happening here too. And look, our government
is investing in Wellington Hospital. We're making sure that it's expanding.
We've committed to that Mountfic tunnel.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Can we can we get the Mount Victoria Tunnel, Because
you just segued into something I really want to ask about.
You're saying yes that the Mount Victoria Tunnel is going ahead.
Chris Bishop is actually saying, well, he wants to look
at the congestion charges figures, he wants to look at
other figures, and he's not so sure.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, those aren't his words, and close to his words,
they're not his words. I have seen his words that
he has committed to the Mountfact Tunnel, and I can
assure you that he and I are on the same page,
which is actually right now. There is what's called geotechnical
work happening. That's something that hasn't previously happened on the
(16:55):
Mountfact Tunnel, and that's about literally putting drills in the
ground to work out what are the ground conditions in
the seismic conditions, which of course informs the design of
the tunnel. Those works aren't cheap.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You don't do it at least right there on this show,
you're going to say we're going to have spades in
the ground and mount second, Mount Victoria Tunnel is unequivocally
going ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
We are committed to the Mount vic Tunnel. That's the
simplest I can say it. There are works underway already
in terms of that geotechnical preparation. The question that Transport
Minister is contemplating very properly is what phase we do
each of the bits of construction in and how that
marries up with other construction across the country. We clearly
can't do all of the roads of national significance at once,
(17:40):
but the Mount wvict Tunnel is part of our plan
for building the roads that we think for the future
needed for growth and productivity in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
One of the things too, that I'm confused by is
the government standing on the male point issue. Now to
me that it's a national significant, significantly problem. It's like
internationally people are talking about it, TV shows are talking
about it internationally, Yet the governments to sitting back and watching.
Do you think they could have done more?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Well? I don't think that's fair to say that we're
sitting back and watching The Minister for Local Government, Simon Watts,
has of course been working with the council on that,
and there is an inquiry underway which the government is
supporting and which council. Well it is important because what
we don't know yet, Nick, and I don't want to
get ahead of that inquiry, and I'm not implying I
(18:26):
have any knowledge that anyone else doesn't. What we don't
know is was this a failure in which the contractor
or the operator didn't actually meet their obligations. Was this
something that happened because there wasn't enough investment? Was this
something that happened because of an error at which level?
And who did it? And actually that's really important because
that then goes to the question of who is responsible
(18:48):
for fixing it. And we don't necessarily know that there
isn't a private company or another organization that has some
culpability here. It's too early to say that. So all
of those questions do need to be answered before you
then leap to Okay, now what's the next step. And
so I think it's good that the Wellington City Council
have said let's take that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So do you think they've handled it well enough?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I think they've been pretty upfront and transparent about what's
going on, and I appreciate that as a way of
doing it. I have said previously that when I look
back over council decisions over previous years, I've had endless
Wellingtonian say to me, and they did during the election
campaign last year, look down the road, look at that
big puddle. Why is there that big puddle down the
(19:33):
road that no one ever comes and fixes because the
pipes are broken. But they're building that monstrosity of a
cycle way on Molesworth Street. And you know, there's been
this big debate about whether or not various council has
voted for various things, but here's the bottom line. What
they did do was support building very extravagant cycle ways
at a time when we all knew that the pipes
(19:54):
needed more investment.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Do you have any faith that the presentation that's going
to be made at twelve o'clock today will relieve us
of anything or help us in any way.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, I'm very hopeful that it will, because the reality
is for Wellington City Council, with rates as high as
they are, really hurting many people. And I think of
some of the supernuitants I've spoken to, and low income
people I've spoken to, and with the cost pressures that
they face for essential fundamental projects, they have to do
(20:26):
the right thing and make some tough choices about what
are the things that our community. We need to be
honest with our community and say, look, there's are good
things to do, but we can't afford them right now.
We're going to take that off the table so we
can focus on the most important things. That's the conversation
they need to have. Those are tough conversations. I've had
to do it as Minister of Finance. It's new to easy,
but it needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yes or no. Do you think we're going to be
at a happier situation this afternoon? Ah?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, I don't think we're going to get answers this afternoon.
I think we're going to get ideas, so we won't
have anything definitive yet.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Nikola, what just always enjoy having you in the studio.
Thank you very much for taking time out of your
very very busy schedule.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
You and if I can just say to your listeners,
he's looking youthful. Despite what I said at the beginning
of the show. He looks good. He's not looking Jitleged.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Oh my god, thank you, I think, I think. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Promised Finance Minister Nikola Wis joins us on the show.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I got a bit of jet lag. I spent the
day in Auckland yesterday. Jet leg, you know, leg, jet
lag and crowd.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Maybe the jet lag effects people of a certain aide for.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
More than others.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Start having to crack at me earlier. That's not the
way you want to start. You don't want to start
it crack at the host.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Fit's terrible. I'm very sorry to hear about your jet
legs and the frog and your throat.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Right, let's talk about the thing you've attacked me. I'm
going to come back at you New Zealand Taxpayers Union
Courier Bowl. Aren't they your friends? Are they the ones
that try and get you all the time? Are they
the same ones?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well? Yeah, that is the okay.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well they show that National is about twenty eight percent support.
Now I was trying to work out whether that was
the worst ever, but it's only slightly above the twenty
five point six result in twenty twenty lex and one
of your worst results ever. Now this talk again leadership change.
What are your thoughts when you give us your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, it's obviously not a good number, and put it
this way, that's a poll. But if that was the
number that National got on the actual election, that would
not be an acceptable result. We have to do better
than that, and we need to look at that number
and consider what New Zealanders are saying and what they're thinking.
The bit that gives me real concern is that I think,
(01:35):
as I understand, on those numbers, what New Zealand would
get is a labor led government supported by the Greens
and a party Marty.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I know that's the narrative. I know that's your narrative,
and I know I get that, and I get that
you know you're going to have you know, the mayor
is controlling this and the Green's controlling it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But right now you've got a problem because somewhere somebody
doesn't like something about your organization and you've got to
fix it quickly, and it's looking like you Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Well, as I've just said to you, I'm not happy
with that number. I don't think our National Party team
would be happy with that number. I don't think the
Prime Minister would be satisfied with that number. Absolutely, we
need to do better than that because the risk if
we're polling at that level is most importantly and and
I do sincerely think this is worth considering, is that
(02:28):
there could be a change of government. And I do
think that would be terrible for New Zealand because yes,
we have not been a perfect govern Yes there are
people who are struggling, but it's also the case that
we're making progress and we could put all of that
progress at risk with a change of government.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I get you one hundred percent, but right now
there's too much chatter about whether you have the right leader.
We have the right prime minister in place now and
that's the chatter.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, I think what you're reflecting is that the Prime
Minister has had a challenging week and I actually respect
him beinglnerable enough to say, well, actually I misspoke during
the week, and there has been a lot of focus
on that. I always think it's good when people do
Admitch they didn't get something quite right. We are living
in a very complex and difficult time and he is
(03:21):
being asked to give yees no answers to questions that
are pretty subtle, have a lot of complexity, and he
hasn't been able to give yes no answers, and the
media obviously have highlighted that, and he's admitted that he
mist spoke on an occasion. So I don't think it's
been it's a great a week for the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Let's be really fair and honest. It's not a week.
This has been going on for a while. It was
only a couple of months ago there was talk of
a coup that got OVERHRG. This hasn't been about a week.
This is somebody and I like you like him, and
I think he's a great prime minister. So don't think
that I'm picking on him, because I'm not. But there
is something going on and we've got a problem.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, I just think if you look across the world
right now, there are many incumber governments and many leaders
who have found that the popularity levels they have had
are not the way they've been in the past. You're
seeing it world over. It is very challenging and it
reflects the fact that I think New Zealanders and many
(04:23):
people across the community have had an incredibly tough time.
And when you're having an incredibly tough time. You look
to the government, You look to the Prime Minister as
the figurehead for that government.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And is he the right figurehead for that? Is he
the right leader for the situation? Take everything out of
the equation. It's a leadership thing. We're talking We're not
talking about the government. We're talking about a leadership. Is
he the right guy?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, he has the backing of the caucus.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And you're not giving me an answer is he the
right guy? I mean, it's a simple yes or no answer.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yes, yes, I am giving you that answer, which is
that I'm saying he has the backing of the National
Party caucus. And what is really important for New Zealanders
is that we are a unified team. He also, of course,
is keeping that coalition unified, which is very important for
the stability of the country and is very important for
New Zealander's everyday live So with those two things in place,
(05:16):
he is in a very challenging job, as leaders around
the world are right now. But I think he's doing
a good job of it.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Do you think we'll have a cup before now in
the election? No, you really don't believe that. No, you
believe that everyone is happy and content and we're going
to get through this, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
To lear edge, I think you have to understand that
National Party in peas and ministers really do come to
Parliament to serve New Zealand. And when I look around
the world right now, I see conflict in Iran that is,
by some measures worsening. I see global economic implications which
are certainly going to have effects here at home. I
(05:57):
see a country that is coming through the back of
a very challenging time. And our National Party team recognize
that what New Zealanders don't want to see is us
focused on ourselves and who's who in the zoo. They
want to see stability, unity, a prime minister leading, keeping
our coalition strongly together.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Okay, let's move on, because you brought it up and
I mean it's very very important to us. RN. How
does that as Finance minister effect? I mean, are you
sitting there worrying about how much oil? How much you
know what is going to cost? Are you preparing for
it to get worse or preparing for it to get better?
I mean, how is it for you?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Well, for me, it means that I like I'm sure
many New Zealanders and watching international developments very closely. I'm
clicking on the international newspapers, but I also get formal
briefings from the New Zealand Treasury Treasury. It's about twice
a day. I'm getting a verbal briefing, but I'm also
getting a briefing in writing. And what we're doing is
monitoring what's happening with the things that will have the
(06:55):
biggest impact for New Zealand. So number one, what's happening
with the oil price, because of course that affects what
you pay at the pump, but it also affects overall
like the cost of getting things around the country, very
freight food. It has implications for inflation. So we're watching
that very closely. Where we've been monitoring our fuel security situation.
(07:15):
Of course, we have quite a lot of fuel in
the country already and a lot already on its way.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
How long do we have do we have?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We have twenty eight days of fuel in the country
at any one time as a regulatory minimum, although I
want to acknowledge many fuel companies and others keep more
than is the minimum required, and so they have more
than that, And then of course some of them already
have fuel in transit here, so that immediate fuel security
situation is in hand, but there's no getting away from
(07:41):
the fact that a higher oil price means New Zealand
is paying higher prices. What that also means is that
the Treasury are working closely with the Reserve Bank, of course,
have that responsibility for keeping inflation low and stable and
keeping it between one and three percent over the medium term.
They need to be monitoring what's happening with all of
that information. And then we're thinking about our exporters, because
(08:03):
as you've seen, the Strait of Hormuz is in a
really difficult, challenged state. We don't know how long that
will go on.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
For what's your advice, it's your advice, it's going to
be short or long.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, quite genuinely, people aren't able to predict whether it
will be short or long because to understand that, I
think you'd have to have really inside information about what
the Iranian regime of thinking and what Trump's next move
is going to be. And I just can't honestly look
at you and say that I know any better than
anyone else what that's going to be. But what you're
(08:37):
seeing from international markets is they're trying to guess how
long is this thing going to last. And what you
saw initially was the oil price didn't rise that much.
It's risen throughout the week, and that seems to be
the market saying, okay, this might last a little bit
longer than we first predicted.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
What have you got up in your armor to actually
make us stable in New Zealand. I mean, it's been
a hell of a run, hasn't it. I mean, you know,
everything that's just kept coming at you. Tariffs, recession, war
hasn't been playing saying it yet.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, I'm really conscious that for New Zealanders, they came
through COVID out the other side of that into a
cost of living crisis, then an interest rates sought up,
then the economy is struggled. We've been coming through that,
but we've been hit by conflict, weather events. It's been
a really tough time for New Zealanders. But look, when
I look at it, New Zealand actually, relative to other countries,
(09:32):
is better placed. And that's for a couple of reasons.
The first, and forgive me for being slightly emotional about
it as a mum. You know, we're on the other
side of the world. There is no risk that missiles
are going to be flying over our kids' schools or
that we're going to be invaded anytime soon. That counts
for something not only in terms of peace and security,
but also the way that businesses and investors around the
(09:52):
world look at us. We're a relatively safe place right now.
Second thing is we're pretty resilient because our exporters. Yes, yes,
we export to the Middle East, but fewer than five
percent of our exports go to the Middle East. We
have a range of other markets that we can still access,
and our exporters are very adaptive and resilient. They've proved
(10:12):
that in recent times. And then the third thing is
we've got a really good disciplined government and reserve bank
in place who are managing the economy prudently. And it's
at times like this that I'm reminded why it is
important you are focused on what you're spending and what
your debt levels are, and how you're ensuring your monetary
policy is correct. And we've got good, stable, steady settings.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Can I just ask you, We've got now text machines
lit up with people texting why are we paying more
for our petrol now? If our supplies are bought before
and we've got twenty eight days worth a supply.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, look, that is a good question, and you will
have heard the AA from time to time talk about
the rocket and feather effect, which is whereby what you
don't want to see is price is going up in
a crisis quickly and then only coming down slowly when
the crisis is over. Now, the Commerce Commission have a
function here which they monitor what's happening with fuel prices,
(11:07):
and they will be doing that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So it's just a matter of the big boys just
having an opportunity to marke.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I haven't seen an analysis of what's happening across the board.
I think you'll still be in a situation where you
should be shopping around and looking for who's got the
best price, because it is fair to say that the
fuel companies should already have the fuel in the market
that they're currently selling at the pump. Now they will
be reflecting on what's happening with the oil price. That
(11:33):
started at about seventy two dollars last week before the conflict,
it's now up over eighty dollars.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
But for can you see that getting to one hundred.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, look, the market hasn't priced that in yet. But
their question the market will be asking is what will
happen to overall fuel supplies? How long the conflict goes
on as the critical is the critical piece for that.
But just for context, when Russia invaded Ukraine, oil spiked
to one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel pretty quickly.
(12:03):
We haven't seen that. This conflict's been going on all
week and it's gone from seventy two it's now up
over eighty I think around eighty five, but we still
haven't seen the huge spike that you saw in the
Russian Ukrainian conflict.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Nikola Willis is with us in the studio. Finance Minister
while into North confuses me. Firstly, I'm confused that you're
not standing there. Labor and Greens have announced that they've
got Aishaverra and Tamitha Paul do very strong names and
people running. Why isn't there a superstar from national standing.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Well, we simply haven't completed our selection process yet. We
will complete that selection process and I can guarantee to
you that we will have a strong candidate Wellington North
and look, the selection process always unfolds on a confidential timeline,
but we'll have a good candidate.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
A good candidate doesn't cut it for me. I mean,
we already are a city, and I know that you're
part of our city as well, has been part of
the government. But we're already a city where we feel
that this government, this coalition government, doesn't give a rats
about us. We've had a Prime Minister to say that,
you know, every time he can knock Wellington, he does.
And now we don't have Nikola Willis standing. Who is
a superstar would be? I imagine the race between Aishavi
(13:21):
or Tamoth the Ball and Nikola Willis. I mean, that
would be one hell of a race. So why and
you can't tell me you've got, you know, someone that's
a superstar sitting in the background. It won't be. It'll
be just someone that national likes, feels okay, looks good
in the suit, and away we go.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Oh well, look, we'll have a strong candidate and each
of us in the National Party have a role to play.
And the role that the National Party Board and my
team have asked me to play is to really focus
on that economic and finance agenda to ensure that I'm
doing everything I can to grow the party vote across
the country, and I think I just point that out.
I mean, your listeners know this. But of course electric
(14:02):
representation is very important. We're proud of all of our
electric imp across the country. But ultimately what decides the
formation of the government is how many party votes a
party gets, not how many electorates it wins. And so
we are very focused on raising our party vote in
every area, particularly here in Wellington. Absolutely we want to
see more people voting for us as a government. And
(14:23):
I sometimes reflect, and it's cheeky of me, I know,
but I do say. I look at Wellington, I say, well,
what's something about Wellington that's gone wrong. Well, one of
the things is all of the MP's are either Labor
or Green MPs, and the council is dominated by Labor
and the Greens.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And to be fair, that's that's because you've never put
up anyone strong.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I mean I put myself up last year. Look, I
respect democracy, you know. Greg o' connor and I had
a good race together. I think we both gave it
out all and he put me at the post. And
that is that the people spoke.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Why is it that we have this feeling in Wearrington
that that this government doesn't really care about us.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, we do care about you. Let me let me
be you know, just blunt about that. We care very
much about the city. We want it to do well,
and we see huge potential for the city. I mean,
you know, today we've had Peter Jackson as just one
one of the biggest film awards in the world, and
he lives right here in Wellington. Not only does he
live here, but he's invested in it. He wants to
(15:25):
keep doing great things here. We have Volpara, which is
one of the leading breast cancer diagnostic tools in the world.
This is the place where Zero was born. This is
the place where trade Me was born. This is the
place where Cheesy's was born. We have a digital software community. People.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
We understood, we understand how good we are, but we
want to know why the.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Government times well, you know, we do think that. But
my reflection on Wellington of late is that we've been
forgetting all the things that are really great about us
because there's been some pretty crappy things to choose a
word going to going on. There's been there's been some
really bad things happening in the city, and of course
it's right that everyone focuses on that, But we do
(16:08):
have awesome things happening here too. And look, our government
is investing in Wellington Hospital. We're making sure that it's expanding.
We've committed to that Mountfic tunnel.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Can we can we get the Mount Victoria Tunnel, Because
you just segued into something I really want to ask about.
You're saying yes that the Mount Victoria Tunnel is going ahead.
Chris Bishop is actually saying, well, he wants to look
at the congestion charges figures, he wants to look at
other figures, and he's not so sure.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, those aren't his words, and close to his words,
they're not his words. I have seen his words that
he has committed to the Mountfact Tunnel, and I can
assure you that he and I are on the same page,
which is actually right now. There is what's called geotechnical
work happening. That's something that hasn't previously happened on the
(16:55):
Mountfact Tunnel, and that's about literally putting drills in the
ground to work out what are the ground conditions in
the seismic conditions, which of course informs the design of
the tunnel. Those works aren't cheap.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You don't do it at least right there on this show,
you're going to say we're going to have spades in
the ground and mount second, Mount Victoria Tunnel is unequivocally
going ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
We are committed to the Mount vic Tunnel. That's the
simplest I can say it. There are works underway already
in terms of that geotechnical preparation. The question that Transport
Minister is contemplating very properly is what phase we do
each of the bits of construction in and how that
marries up with other construction across the country. We clearly
can't do all of the roads of national significance at once,
(17:40):
but the Mount wvict Tunnel is part of our plan
for building the roads that we think for the future
needed for growth and productivity in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
One of the things too, that I'm confused by is
the government standing on the male point issue. Now to
me that it's a national significant, significantly problem. It's like
internationally people are talking about it, TV shows are talking
about it internationally, Yet the governments to sitting back and watching.
Do you think they could have done more?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Well? I don't think that's fair to say that we're
sitting back and watching The Minister for Local Government, Simon Watts,
has of course been working with the council on that,
and there is an inquiry underway which the government is
supporting and which council. Well it is important because what
we don't know yet, Nick, and I don't want to
get ahead of that inquiry, and I'm not implying I
(18:26):
have any knowledge that anyone else doesn't. What we don't
know is was this a failure in which the contractor
or the operator didn't actually meet their obligations. Was this
something that happened because there wasn't enough investment? Was this
something that happened because of an error at which level?
And who did it? And actually that's really important because
that then goes to the question of who is responsible
(18:48):
for fixing it. And we don't necessarily know that there
isn't a private company or another organization that has some
culpability here. It's too early to say that. So all
of those questions do need to be answered before you
then leap to Okay, now what's the next step. And
so I think it's good that the Wellington City Council
have said let's take that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So do you think they've handled it well enough?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I think they've been pretty upfront and transparent about what's
going on, and I appreciate that as a way of
doing it. I have said previously that when I look
back over council decisions over previous years, I've had endless
Wellingtonian say to me, and they did during the election
campaign last year, look down the road, look at that
big puddle. Why is there that big puddle down the
(19:33):
road that no one ever comes and fixes because the
pipes are broken. But they're building that monstrosity of a
cycle way on Molesworth Street. And you know, there's been
this big debate about whether or not various council has
voted for various things, but here's the bottom line. What
they did do was support building very extravagant cycle ways
at a time when we all knew that the pipes
(19:54):
needed more investment.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Do you have any faith that the presentation that's going
to be made at twelve o'clock today will relieve us
of anything or help us in any way.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, I'm very hopeful that it will, because the reality
is for Wellington City Council, with rates as high as
they are, really hurting many people. And I think of
some of the supernuitants I've spoken to, and low income
people I've spoken to, and with the cost pressures that
they face for essential fundamental projects, they have to do
(20:26):
the right thing and make some tough choices about what
are the things that our community. We need to be
honest with our community and say, look, there's are good
things to do, but we can't afford them right now.
We're going to take that off the table so we
can focus on the most important things. That's the conversation
they need to have. Those are tough conversations. I've had
to do it as Minister of Finance. It's new to easy,
but it needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yes or no. Do you think we're going to be
at a happier situation this afternoon? Ah?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, I don't think we're going to get answers this afternoon.
I think we're going to get ideas, so we won't
have anything definitive yet.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Nikola, what just always enjoy having you in the studio.
Thank you very much for taking time out of your
very very busy schedule.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
You and if I can just say to your listeners,
he's looking youthful. Despite what I said at the beginning
of the show. He looks good. He's not looking Jitleged.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Oh my god, thank you, I think, I think. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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