June 28, 2026 • 9 mins
The All Whites are heading home after their dreams of reaching the knockout round at the FIFA World Cup were smashed by Belgium 5-1.
Former All White David Chote joins Nick Mills on the show this morning to discuss the tournament and future of football for Kiwis.
Did the All Whites play as well as they should be expected to on a world stage?
Nick and David discuss if we punched at our weight, and is playing in Oceania holding us back?
They look at our ranking over the years, our coaches, the success of Chris Wood and how we can get more players to his skill level.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk S'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
David Choate is a former or White and football commentator,
and he joins me, now, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Tody, morning Nick. Yep?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Have I fired you up?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Eyes? On all of the matches? It's been a tough slog.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Have I fired you up with my comments? Do we
need to do more? I?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, Look, it's a tail of two, sort of a
double sided coin if you like. I think there have
been some success, successes that can really be celebrated, but
it just shows what we've got to get to to
be really competitive at the top level. We need a
mix of twenty ten where we had the tightest defense
at the tournament and what we've got now. And if
we could meld those two two things together, maybe we'll
(00:53):
be in business.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Darren Baisley, is he good enough? Is he the right guy?
Will he keep the job?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It'll be interesting. I don't think he sort of has
done anything too far wrong, and I don't think many
would have changed much about the approach. I had always
thought going into the tournament, be great if that New
Zealand Football brought someone in alongside him as almost a
consultant coach for this kind of tournament, someone with experience
at World Cup, someone with some real sort of cloud,
(01:21):
if you like. If you look through the managers at
these tournaments, all the big names come out and some
of them come out of retirement to perform for country.
So I thought maybe they much might do something like that.
I think it's another cycle four years on. It would
be unlikely. I think that basically would go for another
four years. Not many coaches last that long in the
round ball game.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But you'd think, I see, I thought Simon Elliott was
that guy that you just explained.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, probably not enough experience as a manager yet, certainly
the playing experience and great to have on staff. But
I sort of thought, you know, like you could bring
in one of those sort of seasoned managers who float
around the place just as almost to sit alongside Baisley
and challenge the team to some different thinking.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Are those people available or would they cost too much?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
A costure? But I think if you're going to go
to these tournaments, you've got to be prepared to invest.
Sort of there's no rest, no reward. I think New
Zealand Football could find the money to get someone and
alongside A Baisley. They go into a bit of a
lull now in New Zealand because we go through that
sort of soft qualifying route through Oceania. So perhaps for
(02:31):
the last part of the series, when you get into
the business end, perhaps that's the time to look at
a change.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is that it for Chris Wood? Is he done his
bit for New Zealand? I mean, you know, I can't.
I can't sing. His praise is high enough. You know
how I feel about him. I think he's probably up
there with a top two or three KIWI Sportsman of
all time and that's a pretty high accolade.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You wouldn't say never for Chris Wood. It'd be a
long stretch, but just look how some of those older
players are performing at the World Cup. If he keeps
his body in shape, there's no reason why not. And
Chris Wood's been an absolute champion, not only in terms
of the quality of has played, but attitude comes back
for every international. Really loves wearing the fern. And he
(03:11):
wouldn't say never, but it'd be a long odds. Have
you met him, Yeah, only only casually earlier in his career,
but not not to any death. But everyone I know
who knows him well just say is what you see
is what you get. Well, he's always been the kind
of player that will follow to get to get his gig.
(03:34):
He'll go anywhere for the game and that's been evident
in what he's done. He looks like one of those
athletes who just has driven by success. A pretty serious
sort of dude. He doesn't he doesn't take things lightly.
He takes his responsibility for news and very serious. He's
a real I think will be a Hall of famer
in terms of not only New Zealand sport, in New
(03:55):
Zealand football, but New Zealand sport.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Compare him to Winton Rufer, you know, you know you've
seen both. I mean, I mean I'm a layman when
it comes to football, but they are the two greatest
footballers in my lifetime.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, and Winton I think had a touch of genius
about him. He was that kind of player who almost
at times you could say he could drift out of
a game. But Chris Wood's worked for everything he's got.
He's developed his game and got better as he's got older.
Winton burst on the scene I think as a seventeen
year old in that eighty two that eighty two to him,
(04:28):
and I think early in that qualifying he was only
seventeen eighteen and he burst on with real sort of impact,
genius player who had the most fabulous career in Europe
before the days that we would see him on television
like we do now with Chris Wood. But Chris Wood's
a grafter. They call him the wood Chopper. He's a
hard worker. So different players but both. You know, it's
(04:51):
an argument as to who will be the greatest of
all time? Can we share that award?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, he probably could, and I don't argue eighty fifth
in the world. What is realistically a number that we
could look to. Is it realistic in the next twenty
years that the all Whites will actually go past the
first round at a World Cup?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yep. Realistic for me is to be a top fifty sides.
There's no reason why we shouldn't be inside the top fifty.
We've got to play games against better opposition all the time.
We're in a soft confederation. Oceania isn't the place to
develop your game, so you've got to do those things
to get through the tournament. But they have to play
for the next three or four years sides ranked inside
(05:33):
the top fifty, and I don't see any reason why
we can't be a top fifty side if we continue
to develop the kind of players we're doing in which
I think is going to happen, because the academy system,
both here and abroad, is built for building technically good players.
And seven out of that starting eleven I counted in
the all whites came through academy systems, notably in Wellington
(05:55):
with West and the Ola Academy and the Phoenix and
their academy. So seven of us starting eleven are those
technically gifted players. If we can develop that further, get eight, nine,
ten technically gifted players, we will be in business.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And I know people parents don't want to hear this,
but I always heard the stories rightly or wrong, and
you'll correct me if I'm too wrong. But Simon Elliott
as a player went over to Great Britain. It's a
twelve or thirteen year old to try and get into
academies and stuff. I mean, is that really what we've
got to do.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I think the academy system for the twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen can work here. I think there is a pathway
through even through the A League. If you see Finn Sermon,
I would suggest that Finn Surman will get a bigger
club at the end of this tournament. Like Eli. Just
those two players have added some noughts onto their salaries
for sure, and they came through New Zealand sisters, both
(06:44):
through New Zealand academies and in the early teenage years.
I think you can stay in New Zealand seventeen eighteen nineteen,
you should be heading away or into the A League
at least, and if you're a bit of a lady
developmer a twenty one to twenty two. We're going to
see what happens with Jesse Randle. He's off to Scotland.
If he can step up again, he will make the
next leap and become one of the greats for us
(07:06):
in future years. For sure.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Take all the emotion out of it. Give be a
score out of ten, you know, for the for the
all whites performance at just at the stage, not getting there,
not qualifying, just at the World Cup stage.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I'd give it a six seven, which is probably sort
of a sit on the fence care because there were
real highlights and shot and signs of real progress. But
they'd be disappointed with how they defended two soft, particularly
in the center, sort of a soft scented all Whites performance.
And it's not often you'll say that. We always always
(07:40):
produce defensively robust units, but as we've started to play more,
we've left the back door a bit wide open.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Six or seven. We didn't win a game. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I don't go to World Cups expecting us to win games.
I expect us to go and play decent football. I
would give the team of two ten an eight nine
because I think they went there and defended like absolute champions.
This I'd attacked at times well but offended pretty poorly.
I think it's better than a pass mark six seven.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay, all right, I'll you know what, I'll Obviously you're
the expert and I'm not, so I'll take that on board.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You've got to remember, Nick, these guys are playing teams
that are ranked well above and look in the Belgium match,
it was a hiding but no surprise to me. You're
playing a side that was top ten in the world
and had been as recently as three or four years
ago ranked number one. So they are a quality outfit. Sure,
they hadn't been performing to the stage, but just keep
(08:38):
an eye and going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
They hadn't scored a goal apart from an own goal. Tody,
come on, it was.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It was. It wasfathomable that that would continue. It'll be
interesting to see how they go in the next round.
But let's talk in a month's time and let's see
how we how we stand.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Okay, Cheddi, thank you aways a pleasure talking to you
and thank you for your expert information.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays
of the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk S'B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
David Choate is a former or White and football commentator,
and he joins me, now, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Tody, morning Nick. Yep?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Have I fired you up?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Eyes? On all of the matches? It's been a tough slog.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Have I fired you up with my comments? Do we
need to do more? I?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, Look, it's a tail of two, sort of a
double sided coin if you like. I think there have
been some success, successes that can really be celebrated, but
it just shows what we've got to get to to
be really competitive at the top level. We need a
mix of twenty ten where we had the tightest defense
at the tournament and what we've got now. And if
we could meld those two two things together, maybe we'll
(00:53):
be in business.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Darren Baisley, is he good enough? Is he the right guy?
Will he keep the job?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It'll be interesting. I don't think he sort of has
done anything too far wrong, and I don't think many
would have changed much about the approach. I had always
thought going into the tournament, be great if that New
Zealand Football brought someone in alongside him as almost a
consultant coach for this kind of tournament, someone with experience
at World Cup, someone with some real sort of cloud,
(01:21):
if you like. If you look through the managers at
these tournaments, all the big names come out and some
of them come out of retirement to perform for country.
So I thought maybe they much might do something like that.
I think it's another cycle four years on. It would
be unlikely. I think that basically would go for another
four years. Not many coaches last that long in the
round ball game.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But you'd think, I see, I thought Simon Elliott was
that guy that you just explained.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, probably not enough experience as a manager yet, certainly
the playing experience and great to have on staff. But
I sort of thought, you know, like you could bring
in one of those sort of seasoned managers who float
around the place just as almost to sit alongside Baisley
and challenge the team to some different thinking.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Are those people available or would they cost too much?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
A costure? But I think if you're going to go
to these tournaments, you've got to be prepared to invest.
Sort of there's no rest, no reward. I think New
Zealand Football could find the money to get someone and
alongside A Baisley. They go into a bit of a
lull now in New Zealand because we go through that
sort of soft qualifying route through Oceania. So perhaps for
(02:31):
the last part of the series, when you get into
the business end, perhaps that's the time to look at
a change.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is that it for Chris Wood? Is he done his
bit for New Zealand? I mean, you know, I can't.
I can't sing. His praise is high enough. You know
how I feel about him. I think he's probably up
there with a top two or three KIWI Sportsman of
all time and that's a pretty high accolade.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
You wouldn't say never for Chris Wood. It'd be a
long stretch, but just look how some of those older
players are performing at the World Cup. If he keeps
his body in shape, there's no reason why not. And
Chris Wood's been an absolute champion, not only in terms
of the quality of has played, but attitude comes back
for every international. Really loves wearing the fern. And he
(03:11):
wouldn't say never, but it'd be a long odds. Have
you met him, Yeah, only only casually earlier in his career,
but not not to any death. But everyone I know
who knows him well just say is what you see
is what you get. Well, he's always been the kind
of player that will follow to get to get his gig.
(03:34):
He'll go anywhere for the game and that's been evident
in what he's done. He looks like one of those
athletes who just has driven by success. A pretty serious
sort of dude. He doesn't he doesn't take things lightly.
He takes his responsibility for news and very serious. He's
a real I think will be a Hall of famer
in terms of not only New Zealand sport, in New
(03:55):
Zealand football, but New Zealand sport.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Compare him to Winton Rufer, you know, you know you've
seen both. I mean, I mean I'm a layman when
it comes to football, but they are the two greatest
footballers in my lifetime.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, and Winton I think had a touch of genius
about him. He was that kind of player who almost
at times you could say he could drift out of
a game. But Chris Wood's worked for everything he's got.
He's developed his game and got better as he's got older.
Winton burst on the scene I think as a seventeen
year old in that eighty two that eighty two to him,
(04:28):
and I think early in that qualifying he was only
seventeen eighteen and he burst on with real sort of impact,
genius player who had the most fabulous career in Europe
before the days that we would see him on television
like we do now with Chris Wood. But Chris Wood's
a grafter. They call him the wood Chopper. He's a
hard worker. So different players but both. You know, it's
(04:51):
an argument as to who will be the greatest of
all time? Can we share that award?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, he probably could, and I don't argue eighty fifth
in the world. What is realistically a number that we
could look to. Is it realistic in the next twenty
years that the all Whites will actually go past the
first round at a World Cup?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yep. Realistic for me is to be a top fifty sides.
There's no reason why we shouldn't be inside the top fifty.
We've got to play games against better opposition all the time.
We're in a soft confederation. Oceania isn't the place to
develop your game, so you've got to do those things
to get through the tournament. But they have to play
for the next three or four years sides ranked inside
(05:33):
the top fifty, and I don't see any reason why
we can't be a top fifty side if we continue
to develop the kind of players we're doing in which
I think is going to happen, because the academy system,
both here and abroad, is built for building technically good players.
And seven out of that starting eleven I counted in
the all whites came through academy systems, notably in Wellington
(05:55):
with West and the Ola Academy and the Phoenix and
their academy. So seven of us starting eleven are those
technically gifted players. If we can develop that further, get eight, nine,
ten technically gifted players, we will be in business.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And I know people parents don't want to hear this,
but I always heard the stories rightly or wrong, and
you'll correct me if I'm too wrong. But Simon Elliott
as a player went over to Great Britain. It's a
twelve or thirteen year old to try and get into
academies and stuff. I mean, is that really what we've
got to do.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I think the academy system for the twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen can work here. I think there is a pathway
through even through the A League. If you see Finn Sermon,
I would suggest that Finn Surman will get a bigger
club at the end of this tournament. Like Eli. Just
those two players have added some noughts onto their salaries
for sure, and they came through New Zealand sisters, both
(06:44):
through New Zealand academies and in the early teenage years.
I think you can stay in New Zealand seventeen eighteen nineteen,
you should be heading away or into the A League
at least, and if you're a bit of a lady
developmer a twenty one to twenty two. We're going to
see what happens with Jesse Randle. He's off to Scotland.
If he can step up again, he will make the
next leap and become one of the greats for us
(07:06):
in future years. For sure.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Take all the emotion out of it. Give be a
score out of ten, you know, for the for the
all whites performance at just at the stage, not getting there,
not qualifying, just at the World Cup stage.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I'd give it a six seven, which is probably sort
of a sit on the fence care because there were
real highlights and shot and signs of real progress. But
they'd be disappointed with how they defended two soft, particularly
in the center, sort of a soft scented all Whites performance.
And it's not often you'll say that. We always always
(07:40):
produce defensively robust units, but as we've started to play more,
we've left the back door a bit wide open.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Six or seven. We didn't win a game. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I don't go to World Cups expecting us to win games.
I expect us to go and play decent football. I
would give the team of two ten an eight nine
because I think they went there and defended like absolute champions.
This I'd attacked at times well but offended pretty poorly.
I think it's better than a pass mark six seven.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay, all right, I'll you know what, I'll Obviously you're
the expert and I'm not, so I'll take that on board.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You've got to remember, Nick, these guys are playing teams
that are ranked well above and look in the Belgium match,
it was a hiding but no surprise to me. You're
playing a side that was top ten in the world
and had been as recently as three or four years
ago ranked number one. So they are a quality outfit. Sure,
they hadn't been performing to the stage, but just keep
(08:38):
an eye and going forward.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
They hadn't scored a goal apart from an own goal. Tody,
come on, it was.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It was. It wasfathomable that that would continue. It'll be
interesting to see how they go in the next round.
But let's talk in a month's time and let's see
how we how we stand.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Okay, Cheddi, thank you aways a pleasure talking to you
and thank you for your expert information.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays
of the podcast on iHeartRadio
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