July 16, 2026 • 32 mins
Nick was joined for Friday Faceoff this week by Managing Director of Iron Duke Partners Phil O'Reilly, and Raygun founder JD Trask.
They focussed on the current state of Wellington, the troubled Arlington apartment development in Wellington's Mount Cook, and whether Paul Henry's candidacy announcement will boost the ACT Party.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said, be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My favorite time of the day when I get a
couple of good blokes or good sellers in the studio
with me. We have a bit of a good time,
fell O'Reilly, founder of Iron Duke Partners. Morning Phil. I
mean you, Phil, You're more of a regular on the
station than me. Every time I turned the damn thing
you're on with him the Michael someone.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, that's right mate, And and sometimes I get to you,
which is great.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But it's a bad week. It's a bad week. You
pull a little fish.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's okay, am I and Wellington on a Friday at
more the point you know from yesterday, So here today,
so happy to turn up and spend a.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Bit of time, okay. J D Trust, founder of Regard
and someone that I discovered on radio. I feel pretty
proud about it because you know the old Ham Sandwich story.
Do you know about the Ham Sandwich story? Shall I
tell you about the Ham story? Because it's world famous
in Wellington? Can you explain it?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It was just a label that I kep to Andrew Little.
I said, yeah, I think I think he's going to
do about as good a job as a ham sandwich. Uh,
and so far that seems to be plan out. So
I like ham sandwich. Maybe the ham sandwich is better than.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Adam just asking depends what sources ARECS and your ham
sand and.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
How old is the ham.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But nice?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
You never invite me on when he's here, though, I.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Do you What do you think I mean? Phil? Come on,
you're the guy that's got the economy under your control,
and you know exactly what's going on. If I listened
to my costing every morning when I drive into work,
I think that everything's fantastic and all my bills are
getting paid.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I think what happened in the early days of
before moves and so said everybody didn't do you know
where the straight up ho moves is now? You know
it's this thing. I don't know where it is now
anybody knows what it is. I think business people sort
of push the paws button. What you didn't see was
lots of labor short labor shedding. You didn't see lots
of lambs, didn't see much closure. I think people pushed
the paws button because they weren't sure of the price
(02:00):
of fuel. They weren't sure what was going to go on,
and I think that's now off. And I'm looking around
organ as I was just there last couple of days,
that there is an energy about the town. There's an
energy about Wellington. Some of that of courses of local
government change, you know, change in the mayor does a
bit of that. But my sense is that there's a
pent up kind of frustration in the business community. We
have something else gets in the way of this thing. Now,
can we just get back to some of these green
(02:21):
shoots And certainly you're talking to the business community over
the last few days and continue to I think that's
what's happening, not in everywhere. So I was just talking
to some of the construction guys yesterday City you're poor
and concrete get The answer is no, that's an Auckland.
But what I'm talking to Phil Wilson at Auckland Council
goodrouf progress on building consents.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
You get the idea.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So people are setting for growth, but not you're getting there.
So I hope that the latest that around a bombing
and shouting and screaming in the Strait doesn't cause it
to pause again. My senses, it doesn't and so I
think we are back to some sort of growth.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We've been doing this show together for five years, right,
so in that five years, you've always been really positive.
You've always said that you know this is going to change,
and that's going to change. And next year, I mean,
I'm in this year that you told me last year
was going to be okay, when are we actually going
to be? You know, you back to buying one hundred
and twenty dollar bottles of wine when you go out
for dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yea, when you look at one of the one of
the things we track in our office is a little
a little piece of dart ups says, is it a
good time to buy a major appliance? Those of you
old enough listening, and remember Muldoon when he was Prime
Minister used to say, when you to see how the
economy was really going, to bring up the Farmer's Trading
company and see how many washing machines they were selling
was actually a really good measure actually, because it suggests
(03:28):
you're taking the risk thinking about a consumer debt on
and some on what we're seeing when we look at
that number right now, it's still deeply negative, but it's
starting to track up. People are feeling a little more
confident about those kinds of purchases. And if you're confident
about that, you're confident about your job and that sort
of stuff. Right, you're seeing employment go the right way.
What's happened? I think that because every time we get
a bit of green shoots going on, something happens to
smack it up, you know. So Trump, Tariff's they're.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Still you could get a story, but.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You're the business people keep on pushing the pause button.
And I think one of the worries I've got about
New Zealanders, we're too ready to push the pause button.
We don't say bugger, We're just going to carry on here.
We're going to get on with this thing. So let's
hope the pause buttons off this time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
All right? JD Trust does not push the pause button
at all. And you do business internationally. A lot of
your business has done out of America worldwide. You do business.
Tell me if you think my costing is right, and
we are out of the woods and we're all good,
and we're just slowly but surely coming.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Right, I'm a little bit more maxed. I do share.
If it was pointing on the pause, I was looking
at those job listing numbers that kind of showed a
very clear decrease just through the window of while the
fuel wasn't flowing as freely. But I think you hit
the nail on the head. It's a cultural thing. Why
are we so quick to pause? I mean, not to
explode the context beyond just business, but that issue with
(04:42):
the apartments, right, you sit there and you kind of go, well,
hang on, that was meant to be finished two years ago.
What's going on? And I just think that we have
a massive cultural issue in New Zealand that may not
actually be reflective of the realities of business. It is
our way of life that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
We kind of go, oh no, well the knocking machine,
like we'll hold back rather than go.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Hold back, let's look at the possible risks and like
I always like that quote, the people overestimate the risk
and they underestimate the opportunity. And Kiwis are just forever
in that mindset, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And do we need the government to do more green
lighting on that? Do we need that? I mean, that's
a classic example the Arlington apartments, which we are going
to talk about short shortly. You know, imagine the construction
dollars that would be worth to the city if they
actually pressed the green light and said, yes, it's going
to cost a bit more, but we've got to get
it done. Well.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know, if I don't accept that argument, otherwise you'd
be sitting here saying what a great deal that town
hall strengthening is you So no, I think wasteful spend
is still wasteful spend, but we need to just get
on getting on. I mean, I don't want to cross
the stories too much, but fundamentally, you know what drives
me up the wall here as people point to some
of our regulations or rules and they say we can't
(05:52):
do it because this It's like we'll change the bloody rule.
You know. It's like we keep acting like these are
laws of physics and they're not. They're just made up
by people no smarter than us, you know, and then
we end up not doing anything.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's very similar to Phil. You you're sort of around
around the Rosemary bosh. I want to know whether you
actually don't feel that it is actually getting better? Is
there some real I mean I hate that terminology green shoots,
I mean, does it? I mean it is oriety ragged
me at ten o'clock one night.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Tired an emotionally no doubt o'clock.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I say the world has changed in Wellington because the
hurricanes smet.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I reason it wasn't it? You are had X and
they would have been any side that night. I'm sure
you've talked about it accessively, but you know that would
have been the case.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
On Mondays the twentieth a month. I've got a paid
for PA one. How does that help?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And you were so cynical coming back to me and
said that, I just you blue, You've burst my balloon.
So I was trying to get the story out. You
get the whole Wellington thing going. Look, and I'm gonna
talk about it later on. I reckon, Wellington's going hot
right now. It's going to be so that You're right.
We do have this this problem with with always hoping
for something. But let's ever look at some of the
data with the Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index
(07:01):
just came out the other day, which is a real
measure of what's happening in the manufacturing sector. Highest it's
been for two or three years. Services also going north
and it's an eighty five percent services economy in New Zealand.
So no only are we seeing business confidence bounce back
to pre hor moves levels, we're also seeing actual activity
in places like the manufacturing sector, which is much more
export focused, actually going to you know, highs and we
(07:22):
haven't seen for years. So I'll argue there is some
there is some activity going on. What you're not seeing
necessarily is activity so much in Wellington and Auckland yet.
And electorally that's a bit of a problem for the
government because Auckland wins the election for them either way,
so that Auckland's still a bit of a laggard. But
if we were having this conversation in Timaru, going pretty
well far pretty well, sure, farming, but traditionally, of course
(07:42):
farming outcomes if they go well, translated into city growth eventually.
I was talking to Port of Walkland the other day.
I said, how many tractors you're bringing across the port?
ROGERI there's a lot on any utes? Yep, plenty record
numbers of utes going across the port. You know that
that sort of idea, So eventually that that leaks back
on the city. What's happened this time for a whole
bunch of reasons, it hasn't come into the city quite
as quickly as you might have hoped. Maybe that poors
(08:04):
mentality for the farmers as well. The Fonterra payout billions
of dollars coming into the New Zealand economy. Some of
that will be spent in the cities. So you've got
to feel hopeful about the future. But like you are,
shareless frustration. They'll keep on saying that things are going
to get better and then they don't because of this
these externalities and the point that we are doing nothing
is rewarded in New Zealand much more easily than doing something.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
See I love your analogy, Jdi Trust. Would you have
a computer salesman came and said to you today this afternoon,
when you've just come out from the high of doing
this show and you're sitting there and he says, I've
got this twenty five thousand dollar computer thing that's going
to save you. It's going to do this. We would
you write the check this week?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yes, as I would. And just to be pointed on
your question, I do think it's getting better. Our AI business,
for example, we are seeing growth and I'm really pleased
to see that because it shows that New Zealand businesses
are starting to get on the technological change. But it
is a big change management task there.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
AI is not just to give your team chatbots. It's
actually rethink your organization, and New Zealand frankly has not
really caught up to that point understanding what AI is
going to do. So our AI business is doing well,
you know, I hope, I hope it's not inappropriate to say.
You're saying things are going pretty well at Hummingbird recently.
That's good, you know, so there are actually things going
pretty well. I just don't think it's evenly distributed at
(09:20):
the moment, and it is too easy to pull back,
are we?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I mean I have to because you introduced me to AI.
You are the guy that pushed me onto AI, and
now my life is run by it. Are you an
AI guy?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's great for restaurant recommendations, mate, sure have got amy, but.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No thanks, thanks for the recovery.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
One says yes, by the way.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, so I mean, are you an AI guy? Does it?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Is?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's going to change your life?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
It's I personally use it pretty pretty pretty shallowly, you know,
but my staff used a lot. They've we've got specialist
AYE tools that we're using that actually making quite a
big difference to our workplace. We probably it's probably worth
half to three quarters of staff member right now for
what we're doing. And what it does is it enables
us to do the simple things well so that we
can we can focus on the advice stuff that we do,
(10:07):
which I don't think AI can do, and I suspect
it never will do because it relies on a human
trust element, person to personalment. So we're using AI and
our business. Absolutely, we're investing in it, using specialist tools,
and it's working for us.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I had no question.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Friday face off of pill O'Reilly and j D. Trust Phil.
I'm going to start with you on this one because
I know you live somewhere around this area. Arlington apartment
project's been killed after fifty million has been spent, was
going to be a place of residence for nine hundred people.
Well when you first heard all this, I mean, this
isn't your neighborhood, am I right?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And witness a golf shot away. I walked my dog
pass here every morning. He does his business on the gate,
which is probably what's a bit rusty, which is great.
So I've been observing this for a while. In fact,
the early building, that big toll thing that they had
there for a while that they bowled over, which was
apparently an award winning building, it looked maybe I've got
a dirty mind, but it looked phallic in all the
wrong ways. That building. It was just a dreadful mess.
(11:02):
So I'm very police they got it because it's basically
was turning into a vertical slum, and they had these
big ideas about it, and it was done under the
Adan government, and it was a classic of that government's thinking.
The perfect was the enemy of the good. We're going
to build all these high rises, we're going to sell
some of it for affordable housing to the private sector.
It's going to be really eco blah blah blah, and
all of a sudden, costs just blow out, right, and
(11:23):
so it's just ridiculous. It was a great site to have.
It's always been a great site to have a lot
of public housing in there because all the infrastructures right around.
You have to build new water pipes and roads. It's
all right there, right, It's good they can people will
walk to work and so on. But they just got
too big about it, and anybody who knows anything about
high rise construction. If you're going to build eight to
ten stories, well that's two elevators and they're probably each
(11:45):
building all of the maintenance, all of the build cost
high rise cranes and that's a huge cost, right, and
so you had to have a much bigger site than
that to make that work. I think right across the
road from it on Hopper Street is a really successful
development first put together by Wellington City Council, now run
by Comingora, which is just three story walkups, really cheap
to build the slab construction. So I suspect that's what
(12:06):
they would now and they should just get on and
do it. The perfect was the enemy of the good here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So great information, Jay, you trust. So what happens here?
I mean the lands owned by Wellington City Council us, right,
the development was kind of they were going to pay
for the land. Now they want to come back and renegotiate.
Do we renegotiate or do we say us as the council.
We don't actually have to say us as the council.
So no, let's sell it to a developer. Let's get
rid of it.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I'm sort of torn on the exactly what we do
with it, but we should certainly play to whatever is
in the best interests of Wellington City in that regard,
and there, as far as I'm aware, there's plenty of
things we would like to get assistance from the government on,
so maybe there's a bit of a quid pro quo
here to do a more savvy deal. My bigger concern
is we just have these train wreck projects one after
(12:54):
another in this country and particularly in this city, and
I don't see any real retros going on To ask
the question of how the hell does this keep happening?
At the risk of pleading topics again, and you know,
we've had the largest public sector in years under the
Ardourne government, you know previously, so you've got the most
people and you still can't run a project right right,
(13:17):
What the hell is going on? And that's where I
sit there, thinking, Okay, there mustn't be enough accountability. There
mustn't who's been held responsible for this, Who whose head
has rolled for wasting this much of our money? You know?
And I don't see any of this happening. It's just hey, guys,
they'll probably get the next contract to go and blow
a whole lot more money. It happened during the time
when Conger are always having money absolutely thrown at it,
(13:38):
absolutely thrown at it. Their balance sheet was just getting
out of control. This is in the last days of
the Number two.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Are doing government lending as much as they want to
be able.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
To borrow it.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I told to just build houses, don't care, just build, build, build,
build build, and it led to some dreadful mistakes. If
you any of you know aunt Roskill where I grew
up in west Auckland, drove through there. Now it used
to be old stat housing. Now it's dreadful little characterists,
three story walk ups with no public amenity, just awful jobs.
But because because Conger always being told just build houses,
worry about building communities, just build houses. And I just
(14:06):
thought that was wrong headed at the time, and it's
wrong now. And I do think Arlington has a great
opportunity with it because it does have a whole bunch
of stuff around it. It's got the Cork School just
across the road. It's got the War Memorial, so there's
places for kids to play just around you. And it's
right in the city. So I think that's really good
public house.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So what do they do with that I mean you
are the perfect person to make a decision, have you
on that because that's in your hood.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Wellington City Council should do a deal with the government
to quickly do three story walk ups that are available
to homeless people and migrants and so on within the
next three years.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Why don't they do a deal with someone you know
wanting to developer.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, Welington Council has this problem that unlike most councils
around the country, Wellington Council has always said that we,
as the right paser, should be responsible for public housing.
I always thought that was completely wrong. The government should
be responsible for public housing. But try and get that
across the council. Even Andrew Little one thing I disagree
with them, and he said, well the councilor should lean
into public housing. So look, the reality is the council
is not going to sell it to a private developer.
(15:04):
They're going to do a deal with the government because
they don't have the balance sheet develop it themselves. The
government will put something on there. I think quick is good.
So three story walk ups, let's get on with it.
Let's just make the best of it. Move on.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You've just given me a little shudder. Down my spine though,
because well, in the city Council and I'm looking at you, JD,
they trade j D trust. They could turn around and
say we'll develop ourselves, couldn't they They could? And because
they love the idea of social housing, they do and
they and they love being unable to execute anything. Well,
so you know it'll just compound the losses. I even
(15:36):
though I agree that they won't do something with with
private private we get something built. You know, it's just
wasting our minds. Got these developers, we've talked about it,
and you know that could actually do this. They're all
doing them all around the country and doing them so
they make a profit out of them. Why couldn't we
give it to one of them?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Because that would be innovation, nick, and we're not good
at that. That would be innovation. And by the way,
sharing dirty profits with the dirty private sector. So that
we just we struggled with the stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Public is good and private is bad. Just far too
many people in New Zealand. There's another classic I've got
the private sector shouldn't be invol and building schools. Well,
they've been involved in building skills for the laste hundred
and fifty years. What are you talking about? What stupid thought?
You know, this idea that just we've just got a
blind spot about the role of the private secret some of.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
This, he said, and nobody will learn the lesson that
money wasn't the problem, right, So that's the other piece.
We would just keep wasting the money. You know, it
blows my mind. The private said it would get it done.
You know, they're just going to keep keep bleeding it.
And that's what just drives me up the wall is
no one can actually point to a great example of
why public is better. It's just like, hey, you know what, guys,
have we up the rates some more and we get
(16:38):
some more tax This will this building will magically appear dreaming,
absolutely ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I mean, someone rang in earlier and said, Malcolm Gillies
or Kirk Gibbons would get that done in no time
at all. And why don't we give it to Mark
Denaya chick, Why don't we just give it to one
of those Yep, would be good idea, you know, and
they get all the rates back from all the development.
How how simple would that? Bee? Is that too simple?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
No?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It makes too much sense.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Jade, I'm going to come to you on this one.
First broadcast to Paul Henry, I don't know. A retired
broadcaster's not really a broadcaster anymore, is he. Paul Henry
caused a bit of a stir with his entrance into
the ACT party and politics. What do you actually think
he'll bring to the selection.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think he'll bring honesty. I think he'll say what
most people are thinking. He did a fantastic speech in
twenty twenty four for ACT where he talked about things
like the AI wave, coming unemployment threats, how we should
adapt for it, all of this sort of stuff, which
I think was one of the best speeches. I ended
up sending it to a lot of people to go
and watch. So I'm really excited that he's actually putting
(17:36):
his hand up. I think, you know, there's a fear
few people that are sensible like that, that are too sensible,
as in smart enough to not go into politics. So
I'm kind of glad he's decided that he is actually
quite comfortable walking into that beehive. Pun intended, you know,
to say what he thinks. So I'm really excited. I
think it's a huge win for ACT. I think it'll
be a huge win for New Zealand to have somebody that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Do you like the fact that those sort of people
and probably are Prime Minister is exactly the same that
don't need to because of financial Financially they're weld secure,
but they go into politics anyway. Do you like that idea?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I do.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I think generally it's a good idea to try to
copy what successful people do, and think I've never understood
New Zealand's obsession with going, hey, you know what, we
should elevate losers and copy them and then be surprised
that we don't win. So yeah, I'm pretty pro that
successful people should be the ones making some of the decisions.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Philoh Riley. You know Paul Henry, I mean, what's he
going to bring to politics?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Well, he's the Jeremy Collarkson of New Zealand, that guy, right,
So he's the guy who says the uncomfortable truth and
is prepared to back it up, probably not quite as outrageous,
but perhaps as Jeremy Clarkson and a lot better addressed,
but you know, says it. And there was a really
worrying OECD survey that came out the other day that
said trust in politicians is lower in New Zealand than
(18:51):
the OECD average. That should worry us because, as you,
one of the great advantages we have as a country,
it's because we're quite more, we're quite close to politicians.
Should should trust them more. In fact, we trust them less.
I'll argue that one of the reasons we trust them
less is we don't think they're telling us the truth.
We think they're holding something back. There's too much of
the political class now in parliament, people who have come
out of just politics. They don't never know anything else.
Henry I think the reason he's had such media profile
(19:12):
over the last week or so, he's the tonic to that.
He does tell his version of the truth, whether you
like it or not. When he was on Hither duplas
Alan the other night, will you stick around if it's boring,
I'm going to leave, you know, Well, that's the truth
of the other politicians, says I'll.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Be there, you know, vote for me. I don't intend
you'll probably reside if it's boring. But at least he's
up for that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And do you think your last the two terms he's
talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
If they're in government, he might I think he might
And I'm be interested to see him as a ministry.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You know what a ministry would you give them?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
You dealer broadcasting that right now, I think you put
them into you put them into somebody probably in the
economy actually probably be a reforming sort of minister. The
challenge for guys like him will be being done down
by the bureaucracy. At the end of the day, you've
got it. And that's not a negat to think about
the bureocracy. It's just the nature of buiocracy. The nature
of governing is you've got to got to do the
(20:01):
balancing thing. You've got to look at the data. You've
got to make a decision that you think is going
to work for New Zealand. Then you've got to go
just fight. And that's not the role of a media person.
That's a very different conversation. So we've had the succession
of people famous people who come into Parliament haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Done very well.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I was gonna ask j D on that one. I mean,
and Phil, you'll have a lot better information than j
D and I will have. And I want you to
think about this. While I asked JD, is there anyone
that you've think that think that's gone into politics that's
been famous, being extremely financial. I think of the guy
from Towerong that had the motor racing thing, he didn't
like it. I think I can think of a couple
(20:37):
of them. What do you know of any of that
have actually gone and been individually successful and actually done
a good job.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Nobody, nobody jumps to mind straight straight setting here John
Key and Stephen Joyce to two classics of it, right,
But the reason we know them is they're unusual.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You're right about that. I could also give you Megie
Meggie Air.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I could give you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Any number of number of towerng A guy I'm thinking
about the Bull Day guys.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I can't remember his name.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, A member's name is Bob Bob something or other.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
But there's a number of these people who come in
who and the Australi politics says a bit of it too,
where they come in as as kind of iconic iconics
that are people and they think it'll translate into into
being great ministers or great politicians, and actually it's very
much harder to do.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know what I'm going to argue with you on
your John Key and Stephen Joyce thing is they were
very successful, but didn't have extremely high profiles. That's true,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Did they what about Trump?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I didn't say success? Did you get that one wrong?
But take your harey got out successes for success.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
We are agreeing on this that it's actually very rare
for someone who's had a big profile outside Parliament to
come in and really make a success of it as
a minister. It's really it's really rare. So look, I
wish Paul all the best. I think you'll be pretty
worth just three points to act wish and all the besters.
I wish any new politician all the best. And if
he does succeed, he'll bring a press new face to
use you on products where they're not to agree with them.
(22:02):
I think you'll bring a fresh new face to it,
and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Can I quickly quickly, quickly got to go to ad break.
Can he succeed? Right, I'm going to come. I'll go
to you first, JD. If he's not the leader, he's
not in power, he's not in a position where he
can demand from Can he succeed?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
I think there was a struggle. I think it's a struggle. SUD.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I think you do better because he'll be able to
be freer. He won't be he won't have the same
accountability as a Seamour. So I actually think he will
do better so long as he accepts that he's not
the leader.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay. David Seymour's come out with a strange one to
me felt strange to me. He said that he wanted
to ban the smartphones for under sixteen. Phil O'Riley, I mean,
this is not ACT, is it.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I think it's very poor policy, and I think he
should hang his head of it here. And I normally
ACT comes out with well thought through policy. Whether you
agree with.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
It or not, you can understand the logic of it,
and you can understand what they're trying to say. This one,
there's no logic to that. The reality is the damage
to kids is not being done by mobile phones. It's
being done by apps like Instagram and TikTok, which which
which bullies them. The evidence on that is clear, by
the way, very clear, and the only the only thing
you need to do is work out what you do
about it. Now. A lot of governments now are trying
to ban those apps, and people saying all right, work, well, okay,
(23:08):
well have something else, But what you don't do it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He's not working in Australia, is it. I mean you'd
be doing some research in this well.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I think it has the capacity to do better. It's
the sort of thing that's never going to work perfectly.
But I know responsible parents are already trying to do
something about this in Australia. But here's where you don't
ban phones from kids. It enables me to read a
newspaper or a magazine. Isn't that a good thing? It
enables me to research a history, say, isn't that a
good thing? It enables me to check a maths problem.
That's a good thing. It enables me to decide whether
(23:34):
or not I should bring my raincoat to school this morning.
That's all good. That's what mobile phones actually do. That's
why they're really valuable tools in the hands of kids,
so long as we don't have this death scrolling app
stuff going on. You talk to any parent out there,
and I do, and they all know the damage is
being done to these kids through that, So focus on that.
That's why I think Seamos's policies are really poor.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
One.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I love what you're saying, because Jade I said on
the show when we did the story that I looked
at our grandson's project, social studies project, and I looked
at it and I had a tear in my eye.
I was so well done. He researched at all. You know,
it wasn't Ai, but he researched it all on the phone.
If we ban that he's thirteen, what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Firstly, I don't agree with banning the phones, and I'm
a father myself. What I would be doing and will
do with my son is simply not giving me smartphone.
There are feature phones like the old Nokias and stuff
like that. And then when you are doing things like
research or homework and things, you can do that at
home on the family computer or on mom and Dad's
(24:33):
phone under supervision. You don't want any child sitting there
with free access to these things. I mean we don't.
There's a bigger topic for a second, but we don't
have a big enough national conversation about their threats here,
things like roadblocks, for example, as a gaming platform is
predator central. There are kids killing themselves over abuse on
these platforms. And we're not even like I talk to
(24:55):
a lot of parents who have no clue and they're
letting their kids go and play on these things without
any awareness that these problems exist. So I think rather
than a ban, it's actually kind of saying to your
point Field, there's absolute a lot of utility. You know,
if you want your twelve I'm probably not twelve. Maybe
fourteen year old goes off to a movie. How do
they get hold of mom and dad say come pick
me up. A feature phone doesn't need to be an
(25:15):
app phone, you know, bring that stuff into the home.
It comes back to good parenting. Similarly, we don't need
extra bands necessarily. Look at things like pornography. We have
laws around these that don't mean, oh well, we just
took all the computers off the kids, or you know,
they were banned from ever owning a magazine because some
of them are bad. You know, as teenagers, we've got
to think a little bit more nuanced about this.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think you scared me. You scared me. I trust
the new computer stuff. Fillow Riley. Would you you've got
a lot of staff that you have working for you
that you send to seminars and stuff. Would you pay
two and a half thousand dollars to send one to
listen to women in business or woman powerful Woman fronted
(25:56):
by Jasinda Idan.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
No, not because it's just Indra doing. I wouldn't send
my stuff to any of those things because they're all
a ripoff and they're all rubbish, which I've done a
few of them, and I've worked it out. You get
charged a fortune and it's all lovely cups of tea
and networking and stuff in some flash spot, and you
get people, famous people turning up and saying stuff they
said in their book. Anyway, they say it for twenty
minutes and they leave. It's like the worst rock constant
(26:18):
you've ever been to. It's like paying a million dollars
for some rock bend and they turn up for ten
minutes and go away.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So the problem is not just Cindra Adan. The problem
is the conferences themselves, and anybody sending people to those
conferences should just be told no, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay. Can I just quickly ask you, because you are
on the international stage, you travel internationally, do Zinder are doing?
It's got a special place in the world, hasn't she.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yes, she's much more famous. She's much more loved outside
of New Zealand than in New Zealand. When I talked
about that. When I talk to people about this mixed
reputation she has in New Zealand, I'll sometimes get people,
particularly young women, saying to me, no, that can't be true. No,
she's loved. No, No, there is a mixed view in
New Zealand about her. So yeah, though she's much more
famous and loved university, loved outside New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Good for her. If that's the case, well that's great.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You know, it's funny because my brother, who works internationally,
works in Singapore in a very serious job. He and
I stopped talking for two years over COVID because he
thought she was the greatest thing in the world. And
I said, you live freaking Singapore. You don't know, JD.
Would you send one of your staff members internationally because
your international staff would probably tell you all the time
on the phone there, how good your zender.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Is well personally. No, I don't send any of our
staff to conferences for exactly the same reason that that
film mentioned it our viewers, if you get a speaking
slot at a conference, you can go, but we're not.
Just I always, even before I was an employer, they
simply felt like holidays you were going around, you were
having some good eateries, you know, have some chats with
(27:40):
your colleagues, maybe a little bit of team But it
wasn't to learn anything. I've always felt that actually learning
and development is called doing your job. You know, It's
like you figure it out and you get better, you
build experience. That is part of the job. It's not
to go to conferences when it comes to just Senda specifically.
I mean I share your view for which is that
at the personal level, good on for her. But to
your point that yeah, like there's very max views.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, but you're international clients that would probably love to
talk about it. I mean I talked to someone in
the newsroom that was at a wedding they did yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Well, I mean I spoke with a guy who moved
from the US down here and I caught up with
hermes from the tech industry, and he was leaving America
partly because he said, you know, Donald Trump so terrible,
you know, And I was like, well, you got to
understand that, you know, even even our right wing parties
are left of the Democrats, Like, you know, you don't
understand what you think you're getting, what you think you're
elevating here, you know, talk to the people here about
(28:32):
the experience. Talk about you know, at the start of
the show, what are we talking about, God, New Zealand
still in the crapper? Why, well, because we printed all
that money, but we also don't know where most of
it went. And by the way, we didn't build anything. Ah, okay,
well does that is that great?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
No?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
No, it's not. We're still dealing with the problems.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So the Friday fi.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Okay, okay, okay, everything, all good things have to come
to an end and it's now time to talk about
hots and knots. JD. Give me your hots and knots
and make sure that good.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yeah, well, that's actually funny. My whole for the today
is actually going I must have been one year. My
dad turns eighty one today, so I was on a
year ago for his eightieth.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Can you believe that's the same day, that same day,
a year ago for your birthday to your dad any one.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It's a great, great, great meetings. Yeah, no, no, he's good.
He's actually just looked after our seven year old for
the two weeks of the school holiday, so that's been great.
And we're going to try the seafood boil for dinner
with the Dragon's Yam char place. We love that, love
those guys, so trying that out. That's my hot for
this week. And not honestly this is going to sound
a bit of a cough out, but this the curring
(29:40):
or a development thing we've been talking about. You just
sat here in my heads, in my hands, just feeling
like again really like another construction thing not going well
in the city, depressing.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Or another cancelation because I mean basically the Mount Vic
Tunnel has been canceled. I mean call it what you want,
it's been canceled. Anyway, pillow righty, what's your hots?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And not just before I should I should just noted
what I'm not. I'm not criticizing every conference in that
last six sixth. I'm just criticizing the celebrity ones where
you're trying to sell books. That's anyway my hot and
I'm not going to let you up on this neck.
My hot is a gonna be hot. It's not hot today,
but it's going to be hot and it's Wellington. We
are gonna be hot again. I look at the all
black Citaly sell out, Warriors, sell out Canes, sellout City
(30:20):
went really well those nights. Lord of the Rings New
Lord of the Rings that's filming in the city as
we speak. Michelin, Stars and Gormans and god knows what
causing people to go to the restaurant's fantastic and now
a relatively new private sector in shiould have called vitalized Wellington.
Some of the guys that I know, they're in the
restaurants sector just around us here, trying to do a
more private sector led kind of vision about the city.
(30:41):
So I reckon the city's got some got some hift.
I think it's going to go well. I've decided. I've
just decided, so I'm going to keep on talking that
you get away with it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, no, no, I'm big, honest. I want the city
to do well, bore than anyone else wants to do
the city. I've been all my life for giving everything
to it. I want to do well, just really, really quickly.
So I've only got a minute announcement on the ferries today,
twelfth dirty it's going to be made. Twelve dirty announcements
don't on a Friday, don't traditionally end well, do they.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I think it's about I think it'll be about the
sure sid infstruction. I think theyre going ton oun some
agreements with Singapore and Marlborough. I think, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You don't think it's bad news.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I don't think so I'm not too sure.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, thank you both. Funny because everyone in our newsroom
says that it gets an outside a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
It's not good yet might not as TIAKII. By the way,
I spend four hundred and twenty thousand dollars on advertising.
Why are they just fix some pipes?
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Guys?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
The public of Wellington are not interested in advertising campaigns.
You're interested in fixing some pipes, So maybe get on
and do that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah. I've been seeing a lot of buses with all
those YE messages and I think to myself.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Can you just fix the pipe guys and then tell
me how good you are? Much you've done at that nod.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Thank you both, JD and Filo rity great to have
you both, and have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Dissecting the week Sublime and ridiculous Friday face off with
Quinnov Property Management a better rental experience for all. Call
only eight hundred Quinovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks it'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays. Follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said, be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My favorite time of the day when I get a
couple of good blokes or good sellers in the studio
with me. We have a bit of a good time,
fell O'Reilly, founder of Iron Duke Partners. Morning Phil. I
mean you, Phil, You're more of a regular on the
station than me. Every time I turned the damn thing
you're on with him the Michael someone.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, that's right mate, And and sometimes I get to you,
which is great.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But it's a bad week. It's a bad week. You
pull a little fish.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's okay, am I and Wellington on a Friday at
more the point you know from yesterday, So here today,
so happy to turn up and spend a.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Bit of time, okay. J D Trust, founder of Regard
and someone that I discovered on radio. I feel pretty
proud about it because you know the old Ham Sandwich story.
Do you know about the Ham Sandwich story? Shall I
tell you about the Ham story? Because it's world famous
in Wellington? Can you explain it?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It was just a label that I kep to Andrew Little.
I said, yeah, I think I think he's going to
do about as good a job as a ham sandwich. Uh,
and so far that seems to be plan out. So
I like ham sandwich. Maybe the ham sandwich is better than.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Adam just asking depends what sources ARECS and your ham
sand and.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
How old is the ham.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But nice?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
You never invite me on when he's here, though, I.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Do you What do you think I mean? Phil? Come on,
you're the guy that's got the economy under your control,
and you know exactly what's going on. If I listened
to my costing every morning when I drive into work,
I think that everything's fantastic and all my bills are
getting paid.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I think what happened in the early days of
before moves and so said everybody didn't do you know
where the straight up ho moves is now? You know
it's this thing. I don't know where it is now
anybody knows what it is. I think business people sort
of push the paws button. What you didn't see was
lots of labor short labor shedding. You didn't see lots
of lambs, didn't see much closure. I think people pushed
the paws button because they weren't sure of the price
(02:00):
of fuel. They weren't sure what was going to go on,
and I think that's now off. And I'm looking around
organ as I was just there last couple of days,
that there is an energy about the town. There's an
energy about Wellington. Some of that of courses of local
government change, you know, change in the mayor does a
bit of that. But my sense is that there's a
pent up kind of frustration in the business community. We
have something else gets in the way of this thing. Now,
can we just get back to some of these green
(02:21):
shoots And certainly you're talking to the business community over
the last few days and continue to I think that's
what's happening, not in everywhere. So I was just talking
to some of the construction guys yesterday City you're poor
and concrete get The answer is no, that's an Auckland.
But what I'm talking to Phil Wilson at Auckland Council
goodrouf progress on building consents.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
You get the idea.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So people are setting for growth, but not you're getting there.
So I hope that the latest that around a bombing
and shouting and screaming in the Strait doesn't cause it
to pause again. My senses, it doesn't and so I
think we are back to some sort of growth.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We've been doing this show together for five years, right,
so in that five years, you've always been really positive.
You've always said that you know this is going to change,
and that's going to change. And next year, I mean,
I'm in this year that you told me last year
was going to be okay, when are we actually going
to be? You know, you back to buying one hundred
and twenty dollar bottles of wine when you go out
for dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yea, when you look at one of the one of
the things we track in our office is a little
a little piece of dart ups says, is it a
good time to buy a major appliance? Those of you
old enough listening, and remember Muldoon when he was Prime
Minister used to say, when you to see how the
economy was really going, to bring up the Farmer's Trading
company and see how many washing machines they were selling
was actually a really good measure actually, because it suggests
(03:28):
you're taking the risk thinking about a consumer debt on
and some on what we're seeing when we look at
that number right now, it's still deeply negative, but it's
starting to track up. People are feeling a little more
confident about those kinds of purchases. And if you're confident
about that, you're confident about your job and that sort
of stuff. Right, you're seeing employment go the right way.
What's happened? I think that because every time we get
a bit of green shoots going on, something happens to
smack it up, you know. So Trump, Tariff's they're.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Still you could get a story, but.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You're the business people keep on pushing the pause button.
And I think one of the worries I've got about
New Zealanders, we're too ready to push the pause button.
We don't say bugger, We're just going to carry on here.
We're going to get on with this thing. So let's
hope the pause buttons off this time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
All right? JD Trust does not push the pause button
at all. And you do business internationally. A lot of
your business has done out of America worldwide. You do business.
Tell me if you think my costing is right, and
we are out of the woods and we're all good,
and we're just slowly but surely coming.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Right, I'm a little bit more maxed. I do share.
If it was pointing on the pause, I was looking
at those job listing numbers that kind of showed a
very clear decrease just through the window of while the
fuel wasn't flowing as freely. But I think you hit
the nail on the head. It's a cultural thing. Why
are we so quick to pause? I mean, not to
explode the context beyond just business, but that issue with
(04:42):
the apartments, right, you sit there and you kind of go, well,
hang on, that was meant to be finished two years ago.
What's going on? And I just think that we have
a massive cultural issue in New Zealand that may not
actually be reflective of the realities of business. It is
our way of life that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
We kind of go, oh no, well the knocking machine,
like we'll hold back rather than go.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Hold back, let's look at the possible risks and like
I always like that quote, the people overestimate the risk
and they underestimate the opportunity. And Kiwis are just forever
in that mindset, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
And do we need the government to do more green
lighting on that? Do we need that? I mean, that's
a classic example the Arlington apartments, which we are going
to talk about short shortly. You know, imagine the construction
dollars that would be worth to the city if they
actually pressed the green light and said, yes, it's going
to cost a bit more, but we've got to get
it done. Well.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know, if I don't accept that argument, otherwise you'd
be sitting here saying what a great deal that town
hall strengthening is you So no, I think wasteful spend
is still wasteful spend, but we need to just get
on getting on. I mean, I don't want to cross
the stories too much, but fundamentally, you know what drives
me up the wall here as people point to some
of our regulations or rules and they say we can't
(05:52):
do it because this It's like we'll change the bloody rule.
You know. It's like we keep acting like these are
laws of physics and they're not. They're just made up
by people no smarter than us, you know, and then
we end up not doing anything.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's very similar to Phil. You you're sort of around
around the Rosemary bosh. I want to know whether you
actually don't feel that it is actually getting better? Is
there some real I mean I hate that terminology green shoots,
I mean, does it? I mean it is oriety ragged
me at ten o'clock one night.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Tired an emotionally no doubt o'clock.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I say the world has changed in Wellington because the
hurricanes smet.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I reason it wasn't it? You are had X and
they would have been any side that night. I'm sure
you've talked about it accessively, but you know that would
have been the case.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
On Mondays the twentieth a month. I've got a paid
for PA one. How does that help?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And you were so cynical coming back to me and
said that, I just you blue, You've burst my balloon.
So I was trying to get the story out. You
get the whole Wellington thing going. Look, and I'm gonna
talk about it later on. I reckon, Wellington's going hot
right now. It's going to be so that You're right.
We do have this this problem with with always hoping
for something. But let's ever look at some of the
data with the Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index
(07:01):
just came out the other day, which is a real
measure of what's happening in the manufacturing sector. Highest it's
been for two or three years. Services also going north
and it's an eighty five percent services economy in New Zealand.
So no only are we seeing business confidence bounce back
to pre hor moves levels, we're also seeing actual activity
in places like the manufacturing sector, which is much more
export focused, actually going to you know, highs and we
(07:22):
haven't seen for years. So I'll argue there is some
there is some activity going on. What you're not seeing
necessarily is activity so much in Wellington and Auckland yet.
And electorally that's a bit of a problem for the
government because Auckland wins the election for them either way,
so that Auckland's still a bit of a laggard. But
if we were having this conversation in Timaru, going pretty
well far pretty well, sure, farming, but traditionally, of course
(07:42):
farming outcomes if they go well, translated into city growth eventually.
I was talking to Port of Walkland the other day.
I said, how many tractors you're bringing across the port?
ROGERI there's a lot on any utes? Yep, plenty record
numbers of utes going across the port. You know that
that sort of idea, So eventually that that leaks back
on the city. What's happened this time for a whole
bunch of reasons, it hasn't come into the city quite
as quickly as you might have hoped. Maybe that poors
(08:04):
mentality for the farmers as well. The Fonterra payout billions
of dollars coming into the New Zealand economy. Some of
that will be spent in the cities. So you've got
to feel hopeful about the future. But like you are,
shareless frustration. They'll keep on saying that things are going
to get better and then they don't because of this
these externalities and the point that we are doing nothing
is rewarded in New Zealand much more easily than doing something.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
See I love your analogy, Jdi Trust. Would you have
a computer salesman came and said to you today this afternoon,
when you've just come out from the high of doing
this show and you're sitting there and he says, I've
got this twenty five thousand dollar computer thing that's going
to save you. It's going to do this. We would
you write the check this week?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yes, as I would. And just to be pointed on
your question, I do think it's getting better. Our AI business,
for example, we are seeing growth and I'm really pleased
to see that because it shows that New Zealand businesses
are starting to get on the technological change. But it
is a big change management task there.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
AI is not just to give your team chatbots. It's
actually rethink your organization, and New Zealand frankly has not
really caught up to that point understanding what AI is
going to do. So our AI business is doing well,
you know, I hope, I hope it's not inappropriate to say.
You're saying things are going pretty well at Hummingbird recently.
That's good, you know, so there are actually things going
pretty well. I just don't think it's evenly distributed at
(09:20):
the moment, and it is too easy to pull back,
are we?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I mean I have to because you introduced me to AI.
You are the guy that pushed me onto AI, and
now my life is run by it. Are you an
AI guy?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
It's great for restaurant recommendations, mate, sure have got amy, but.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No thanks, thanks for the recovery.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
One says yes, by the way.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, so I mean, are you an AI guy? Does it?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Is?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's going to change your life?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
It's I personally use it pretty pretty pretty shallowly, you know,
but my staff used a lot. They've we've got specialist
AYE tools that we're using that actually making quite a
big difference to our workplace. We probably it's probably worth
half to three quarters of staff member right now for
what we're doing. And what it does is it enables
us to do the simple things well so that we
can we can focus on the advice stuff that we do,
(10:07):
which I don't think AI can do, and I suspect
it never will do because it relies on a human
trust element, person to personalment. So we're using AI and
our business. Absolutely, we're investing in it, using specialist tools,
and it's working for us.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I had no question.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Friday face off of pill O'Reilly and j D. Trust Phil.
I'm going to start with you on this one because
I know you live somewhere around this area. Arlington apartment
project's been killed after fifty million has been spent, was
going to be a place of residence for nine hundred people.
Well when you first heard all this, I mean, this
isn't your neighborhood, am I right?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And witness a golf shot away. I walked my dog
pass here every morning. He does his business on the gate,
which is probably what's a bit rusty, which is great.
So I've been observing this for a while. In fact,
the early building, that big toll thing that they had
there for a while that they bowled over, which was
apparently an award winning building, it looked maybe I've got
a dirty mind, but it looked phallic in all the
wrong ways. That building. It was just a dreadful mess.
(11:02):
So I'm very police they got it because it's basically
was turning into a vertical slum, and they had these
big ideas about it, and it was done under the
Adan government, and it was a classic of that government's thinking.
The perfect was the enemy of the good. We're going
to build all these high rises, we're going to sell
some of it for affordable housing to the private sector.
It's going to be really eco blah blah blah, and
all of a sudden, costs just blow out, right, and
(11:23):
so it's just ridiculous. It was a great site to have.
It's always been a great site to have a lot
of public housing in there because all the infrastructures right around.
You have to build new water pipes and roads. It's
all right there, right, It's good they can people will
walk to work and so on. But they just got
too big about it, and anybody who knows anything about
high rise construction. If you're going to build eight to
ten stories, well that's two elevators and they're probably each
(11:45):
building all of the maintenance, all of the build cost
high rise cranes and that's a huge cost, right, and
so you had to have a much bigger site than
that to make that work. I think right across the
road from it on Hopper Street is a really successful
development first put together by Wellington City Council, now run
by Comingora, which is just three story walkups, really cheap
to build the slab construction. So I suspect that's what
(12:06):
they would now and they should just get on and
do it. The perfect was the enemy of the good here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So great information, Jay, you trust. So what happens here?
I mean the lands owned by Wellington City Council us, right,
the development was kind of they were going to pay
for the land. Now they want to come back and renegotiate.
Do we renegotiate or do we say us as the council.
We don't actually have to say us as the council.
So no, let's sell it to a developer. Let's get
rid of it.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I'm sort of torn on the exactly what we do
with it, but we should certainly play to whatever is
in the best interests of Wellington City in that regard,
and there, as far as I'm aware, there's plenty of
things we would like to get assistance from the government on,
so maybe there's a bit of a quid pro quo
here to do a more savvy deal. My bigger concern
is we just have these train wreck projects one after
(12:54):
another in this country and particularly in this city, and
I don't see any real retros going on To ask
the question of how the hell does this keep happening?
At the risk of pleading topics again, and you know,
we've had the largest public sector in years under the
Ardourne government, you know previously, so you've got the most
people and you still can't run a project right right,
(13:17):
What the hell is going on? And that's where I
sit there, thinking, Okay, there mustn't be enough accountability. There
mustn't who's been held responsible for this, Who whose head
has rolled for wasting this much of our money? You know?
And I don't see any of this happening. It's just hey, guys,
they'll probably get the next contract to go and blow
a whole lot more money. It happened during the time
when Conger are always having money absolutely thrown at it,
(13:38):
absolutely thrown at it. Their balance sheet was just getting
out of control. This is in the last days of
the Number two.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Are doing government lending as much as they want to
be able.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
To borrow it.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I told to just build houses, don't care, just build, build, build,
build build, and it led to some dreadful mistakes. If
you any of you know aunt Roskill where I grew
up in west Auckland, drove through there. Now it used
to be old stat housing. Now it's dreadful little characterists,
three story walk ups with no public amenity, just awful jobs.
But because because Conger always being told just build houses,
worry about building communities, just build houses. And I just
(14:06):
thought that was wrong headed at the time, and it's
wrong now. And I do think Arlington has a great
opportunity with it because it does have a whole bunch
of stuff around it. It's got the Cork School just
across the road. It's got the War Memorial, so there's
places for kids to play just around you. And it's
right in the city. So I think that's really good
public house.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So what do they do with that I mean you
are the perfect person to make a decision, have you
on that because that's in your hood.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Wellington City Council should do a deal with the government
to quickly do three story walk ups that are available
to homeless people and migrants and so on within the
next three years.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Why don't they do a deal with someone you know
wanting to developer.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, Welington Council has this problem that unlike most councils
around the country, Wellington Council has always said that we,
as the right paser, should be responsible for public housing.
I always thought that was completely wrong. The government should
be responsible for public housing. But try and get that
across the council. Even Andrew Little one thing I disagree
with them, and he said, well the councilor should lean
into public housing. So look, the reality is the council
is not going to sell it to a private developer.
(15:04):
They're going to do a deal with the government because
they don't have the balance sheet develop it themselves. The
government will put something on there. I think quick is good.
So three story walk ups, let's get on with it.
Let's just make the best of it. Move on.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You've just given me a little shudder. Down my spine though,
because well, in the city Council and I'm looking at you, JD,
they trade j D trust. They could turn around and
say we'll develop ourselves, couldn't they They could? And because
they love the idea of social housing, they do and
they and they love being unable to execute anything. Well,
so you know it'll just compound the losses. I even
(15:36):
though I agree that they won't do something with with
private private we get something built. You know, it's just
wasting our minds. Got these developers, we've talked about it,
and you know that could actually do this. They're all
doing them all around the country and doing them so
they make a profit out of them. Why couldn't we
give it to one of them?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Because that would be innovation, nick, and we're not good
at that. That would be innovation. And by the way,
sharing dirty profits with the dirty private sector. So that
we just we struggled with the stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Public is good and private is bad. Just far too
many people in New Zealand. There's another classic I've got
the private sector shouldn't be invol and building schools. Well,
they've been involved in building skills for the laste hundred
and fifty years. What are you talking about? What stupid thought?
You know, this idea that just we've just got a
blind spot about the role of the private secret some of.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
This, he said, and nobody will learn the lesson that
money wasn't the problem, right, So that's the other piece.
We would just keep wasting the money. You know, it
blows my mind. The private said it would get it done.
You know, they're just going to keep keep bleeding it.
And that's what just drives me up the wall is
no one can actually point to a great example of
why public is better. It's just like, hey, you know what, guys,
have we up the rates some more and we get
(16:38):
some more tax This will this building will magically appear dreaming,
absolutely ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I mean, someone rang in earlier and said, Malcolm Gillies
or Kirk Gibbons would get that done in no time
at all. And why don't we give it to Mark
Denaya chick, Why don't we just give it to one
of those Yep, would be good idea, you know, and
they get all the rates back from all the development.
How how simple would that? Bee? Is that too simple?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
No?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It makes too much sense.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Jade, I'm going to come to you on this one.
First broadcast to Paul Henry, I don't know. A retired
broadcaster's not really a broadcaster anymore, is he. Paul Henry
caused a bit of a stir with his entrance into
the ACT party and politics. What do you actually think
he'll bring to the selection.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
I think he'll bring honesty. I think he'll say what
most people are thinking. He did a fantastic speech in
twenty twenty four for ACT where he talked about things
like the AI wave, coming unemployment threats, how we should
adapt for it, all of this sort of stuff, which
I think was one of the best speeches. I ended
up sending it to a lot of people to go
and watch. So I'm really excited that he's actually putting
(17:36):
his hand up. I think, you know, there's a fear
few people that are sensible like that, that are too sensible,
as in smart enough to not go into politics. So
I'm kind of glad he's decided that he is actually
quite comfortable walking into that beehive. Pun intended, you know,
to say what he thinks. So I'm really excited. I
think it's a huge win for ACT. I think it'll
be a huge win for New Zealand to have somebody that.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Do you like the fact that those sort of people
and probably are Prime Minister is exactly the same that
don't need to because of financial Financially they're weld secure,
but they go into politics anyway. Do you like that idea?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I do.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I think generally it's a good idea to try to
copy what successful people do, and think I've never understood
New Zealand's obsession with going, hey, you know what, we
should elevate losers and copy them and then be surprised
that we don't win. So yeah, I'm pretty pro that
successful people should be the ones making some of the decisions.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Philoh Riley. You know Paul Henry, I mean, what's he
going to bring to politics?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Well, he's the Jeremy Collarkson of New Zealand, that guy, right,
So he's the guy who says the uncomfortable truth and
is prepared to back it up, probably not quite as outrageous,
but perhaps as Jeremy Clarkson and a lot better addressed,
but you know, says it. And there was a really
worrying OECD survey that came out the other day that
said trust in politicians is lower in New Zealand than
(18:51):
the OECD average. That should worry us because, as you,
one of the great advantages we have as a country,
it's because we're quite more, we're quite close to politicians.
Should should trust them more. In fact, we trust them less.
I'll argue that one of the reasons we trust them
less is we don't think they're telling us the truth.
We think they're holding something back. There's too much of
the political class now in parliament, people who have come
out of just politics. They don't never know anything else.
Henry I think the reason he's had such media profile
(19:12):
over the last week or so, he's the tonic to that.
He does tell his version of the truth, whether you
like it or not. When he was on Hither duplas
Alan the other night, will you stick around if it's boring,
I'm going to leave, you know, Well, that's the truth
of the other politicians, says I'll.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Be there, you know, vote for me. I don't intend
you'll probably reside if it's boring. But at least he's
up for that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And do you think your last the two terms he's
talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
If they're in government, he might I think he might
And I'm be interested to see him as a ministry.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You know what a ministry would you give them?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
You dealer broadcasting that right now, I think you put
them into you put them into somebody probably in the
economy actually probably be a reforming sort of minister. The
challenge for guys like him will be being done down
by the bureaucracy. At the end of the day, you've
got it. And that's not a negat to think about
the bureocracy. It's just the nature of buiocracy. The nature
of governing is you've got to got to do the
(20:01):
balancing thing. You've got to look at the data. You've
got to make a decision that you think is going
to work for New Zealand. Then you've got to go
just fight. And that's not the role of a media person.
That's a very different conversation. So we've had the succession
of people famous people who come into Parliament haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Done very well.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I was gonna ask j D on that one. I mean,
and Phil, you'll have a lot better information than j
D and I will have. And I want you to
think about this. While I asked JD, is there anyone
that you've think that think that's gone into politics that's
been famous, being extremely financial. I think of the guy
from Towerong that had the motor racing thing, he didn't
like it. I think I can think of a couple
(20:37):
of them. What do you know of any of that
have actually gone and been individually successful and actually done
a good job.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Nobody, nobody jumps to mind straight straight setting here John
Key and Stephen Joyce to two classics of it, right,
But the reason we know them is they're unusual.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You're right about that. I could also give you Megie
Meggie Air.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I could give you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Any number of number of towerng A guy I'm thinking
about the Bull Day guys.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I can't remember his name.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, A member's name is Bob Bob something or other.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
But there's a number of these people who come in
who and the Australi politics says a bit of it too,
where they come in as as kind of iconic iconics
that are people and they think it'll translate into into
being great ministers or great politicians, and actually it's very
much harder to do.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know what I'm going to argue with you on
your John Key and Stephen Joyce thing is they were
very successful, but didn't have extremely high profiles. That's true,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Did they what about Trump?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I didn't say success? Did you get that one wrong?
But take your harey got out successes for success.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
We are agreeing on this that it's actually very rare
for someone who's had a big profile outside Parliament to
come in and really make a success of it as
a minister. It's really it's really rare. So look, I
wish Paul all the best. I think you'll be pretty
worth just three points to act wish and all the besters.
I wish any new politician all the best. And if
he does succeed, he'll bring a press new face to
use you on products where they're not to agree with them.
(22:02):
I think you'll bring a fresh new face to it,
and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Can I quickly quickly, quickly got to go to ad break.
Can he succeed? Right, I'm going to come. I'll go
to you first, JD. If he's not the leader, he's
not in power, he's not in a position where he
can demand from Can he succeed?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
I think there was a struggle. I think it's a struggle. SUD.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I think you do better because he'll be able to
be freer. He won't be he won't have the same
accountability as a Seamour. So I actually think he will
do better so long as he accepts that he's not
the leader.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay. David Seymour's come out with a strange one to
me felt strange to me. He said that he wanted
to ban the smartphones for under sixteen. Phil O'Riley, I mean,
this is not ACT, is it.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I think it's very poor policy, and I think he
should hang his head of it here. And I normally
ACT comes out with well thought through policy. Whether you
agree with.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
It or not, you can understand the logic of it,
and you can understand what they're trying to say. This one,
there's no logic to that. The reality is the damage
to kids is not being done by mobile phones. It's
being done by apps like Instagram and TikTok, which which
which bullies them. The evidence on that is clear, by
the way, very clear, and the only the only thing
you need to do is work out what you do
about it. Now. A lot of governments now are trying
to ban those apps, and people saying all right, work, well, okay,
(23:08):
well have something else, But what you don't do it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He's not working in Australia, is it. I mean you'd
be doing some research in this well.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I think it has the capacity to do better. It's
the sort of thing that's never going to work perfectly.
But I know responsible parents are already trying to do
something about this in Australia. But here's where you don't
ban phones from kids. It enables me to read a
newspaper or a magazine. Isn't that a good thing? It
enables me to research a history, say, isn't that a
good thing? It enables me to check a maths problem.
That's a good thing. It enables me to decide whether
(23:34):
or not I should bring my raincoat to school this morning.
That's all good. That's what mobile phones actually do. That's
why they're really valuable tools in the hands of kids,
so long as we don't have this death scrolling app
stuff going on. You talk to any parent out there,
and I do, and they all know the damage is
being done to these kids through that, So focus on that.
That's why I think Seamos's policies are really poor.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
One.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I love what you're saying, because Jade I said on
the show when we did the story that I looked
at our grandson's project, social studies project, and I looked
at it and I had a tear in my eye.
I was so well done. He researched at all. You know,
it wasn't Ai, but he researched it all on the phone.
If we ban that he's thirteen, what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Firstly, I don't agree with banning the phones, and I'm
a father myself. What I would be doing and will
do with my son is simply not giving me smartphone.
There are feature phones like the old Nokias and stuff
like that. And then when you are doing things like
research or homework and things, you can do that at
home on the family computer or on mom and Dad's
(24:33):
phone under supervision. You don't want any child sitting there
with free access to these things. I mean we don't.
There's a bigger topic for a second, but we don't
have a big enough national conversation about their threats here,
things like roadblocks, for example, as a gaming platform is
predator central. There are kids killing themselves over abuse on
these platforms. And we're not even like I talk to
(24:55):
a lot of parents who have no clue and they're
letting their kids go and play on these things without
any awareness that these problems exist. So I think rather
than a ban, it's actually kind of saying to your
point Field, there's absolute a lot of utility. You know,
if you want your twelve I'm probably not twelve. Maybe
fourteen year old goes off to a movie. How do
they get hold of mom and dad say come pick
me up. A feature phone doesn't need to be an
(25:15):
app phone, you know, bring that stuff into the home.
It comes back to good parenting. Similarly, we don't need
extra bands necessarily. Look at things like pornography. We have
laws around these that don't mean, oh well, we just
took all the computers off the kids, or you know,
they were banned from ever owning a magazine because some
of them are bad. You know, as teenagers, we've got
to think a little bit more nuanced about this.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think you scared me. You scared me. I trust
the new computer stuff. Fillow Riley. Would you you've got
a lot of staff that you have working for you
that you send to seminars and stuff. Would you pay
two and a half thousand dollars to send one to
listen to women in business or woman powerful Woman fronted
(25:56):
by Jasinda Idan.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
No, not because it's just Indra doing. I wouldn't send
my stuff to any of those things because they're all
a ripoff and they're all rubbish, which I've done a
few of them, and I've worked it out. You get
charged a fortune and it's all lovely cups of tea
and networking and stuff in some flash spot, and you
get people, famous people turning up and saying stuff they
said in their book. Anyway, they say it for twenty
minutes and they leave. It's like the worst rock constant
(26:18):
you've ever been to. It's like paying a million dollars
for some rock bend and they turn up for ten
minutes and go away.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So the problem is not just Cindra Adan. The problem
is the conferences themselves, and anybody sending people to those
conferences should just be told no, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay. Can I just quickly ask you, because you are
on the international stage, you travel internationally, do Zinder are doing?
It's got a special place in the world, hasn't she.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yes, she's much more famous. She's much more loved outside
of New Zealand than in New Zealand. When I talked
about that. When I talk to people about this mixed
reputation she has in New Zealand, I'll sometimes get people,
particularly young women, saying to me, no, that can't be true. No,
she's loved. No, No, there is a mixed view in
New Zealand about her. So yeah, though she's much more
famous and loved university, loved outside New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Good for her. If that's the case, well that's great.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You know, it's funny because my brother, who works internationally,
works in Singapore in a very serious job. He and
I stopped talking for two years over COVID because he
thought she was the greatest thing in the world. And
I said, you live freaking Singapore. You don't know, JD.
Would you send one of your staff members internationally because
your international staff would probably tell you all the time
on the phone there, how good your zender.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Is well personally. No, I don't send any of our
staff to conferences for exactly the same reason that that
film mentioned it our viewers, if you get a speaking
slot at a conference, you can go, but we're not.
Just I always, even before I was an employer, they
simply felt like holidays you were going around, you were
having some good eateries, you know, have some chats with
(27:40):
your colleagues, maybe a little bit of team But it
wasn't to learn anything. I've always felt that actually learning
and development is called doing your job. You know, It's
like you figure it out and you get better, you
build experience. That is part of the job. It's not
to go to conferences when it comes to just Senda specifically.
I mean I share your view for which is that
at the personal level, good on for her. But to
your point that yeah, like there's very max views.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, but you're international clients that would probably love to
talk about it. I mean I talked to someone in
the newsroom that was at a wedding they did yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Well, I mean I spoke with a guy who moved
from the US down here and I caught up with
hermes from the tech industry, and he was leaving America
partly because he said, you know, Donald Trump so terrible,
you know, And I was like, well, you got to
understand that, you know, even even our right wing parties
are left of the Democrats, Like, you know, you don't
understand what you think you're getting, what you think you're
elevating here, you know, talk to the people here about
(28:32):
the experience. Talk about you know, at the start of
the show, what are we talking about, God, New Zealand
still in the crapper? Why, well, because we printed all
that money, but we also don't know where most of
it went. And by the way, we didn't build anything. Ah, okay,
well does that is that great?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
No?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
No, it's not. We're still dealing with the problems.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So the Friday fi.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Okay, okay, okay, everything, all good things have to come
to an end and it's now time to talk about
hots and knots. JD. Give me your hots and knots
and make sure that good.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yeah, well, that's actually funny. My whole for the today
is actually going I must have been one year. My
dad turns eighty one today, so I was on a
year ago for his eightieth.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Can you believe that's the same day, that same day,
a year ago for your birthday to your dad any one.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It's a great, great, great meetings. Yeah, no, no, he's good.
He's actually just looked after our seven year old for
the two weeks of the school holiday, so that's been great.
And we're going to try the seafood boil for dinner
with the Dragon's Yam char place. We love that, love
those guys, so trying that out. That's my hot for
this week. And not honestly this is going to sound
a bit of a cough out, but this the curring
(29:40):
or a development thing we've been talking about. You just
sat here in my heads, in my hands, just feeling
like again really like another construction thing not going well
in the city, depressing.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Or another cancelation because I mean basically the Mount Vic
Tunnel has been canceled. I mean call it what you want,
it's been canceled. Anyway, pillow righty, what's your hots?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And not just before I should I should just noted
what I'm not. I'm not criticizing every conference in that
last six sixth. I'm just criticizing the celebrity ones where
you're trying to sell books. That's anyway my hot and
I'm not going to let you up on this neck.
My hot is a gonna be hot. It's not hot today,
but it's going to be hot and it's Wellington. We
are gonna be hot again. I look at the all
black Citaly sell out, Warriors, sell out Canes, sellout City
(30:20):
went really well those nights. Lord of the Rings New
Lord of the Rings that's filming in the city as
we speak. Michelin, Stars and Gormans and god knows what
causing people to go to the restaurant's fantastic and now
a relatively new private sector in shiould have called vitalized Wellington.
Some of the guys that I know, they're in the
restaurants sector just around us here, trying to do a
more private sector led kind of vision about the city.
(30:41):
So I reckon the city's got some got some hift.
I think it's going to go well. I've decided. I've
just decided, so I'm going to keep on talking that
you get away with it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, no, no, I'm big, honest. I want the city
to do well, bore than anyone else wants to do
the city. I've been all my life for giving everything
to it. I want to do well, just really, really quickly.
So I've only got a minute announcement on the ferries today,
twelfth dirty it's going to be made. Twelve dirty announcements
don't on a Friday, don't traditionally end well, do they.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I think it's about I think it'll be about the
sure sid infstruction. I think theyre going ton oun some
agreements with Singapore and Marlborough. I think, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You don't think it's bad news.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I don't think so I'm not too sure.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, thank you both. Funny because everyone in our newsroom
says that it gets an outside a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
It's not good yet might not as TIAKII. By the way,
I spend four hundred and twenty thousand dollars on advertising.
Why are they just fix some pipes?
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Guys?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
The public of Wellington are not interested in advertising campaigns.
You're interested in fixing some pipes, So maybe get on
and do that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah. I've been seeing a lot of buses with all
those YE messages and I think to myself.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Can you just fix the pipe guys and then tell
me how good you are? Much you've done at that nod.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Thank you both, JD and Filo rity great to have
you both, and have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Dissecting the week Sublime and ridiculous Friday face off with
Quinnov Property Management a better rental experience for all. Call
only eight hundred Quinovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks it'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays. Follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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