April 9, 2026 • 33 mins
Nick Mills wraps the week with Friday Faceoff with Chief Executive of Infrastructure NZ, and former Porirua Mayor Nick Leggett and National Secretary of the Public Service Association Fleur Fitzsimmons.
Starting with the war - how long will the effects last for Kiwis? Fitzsimmons and Legget talk stability of the ceasefire,
They debate the fuel crisis, the government's response and how our country will survive.
Then onto electrifying NZ, with the wake up signal of the Strait of Hormuz closing - Is solar the answer to our countries problems?
Christopher Luxon as a leader - is a CEO the leader we want? After his stumbles in the media lately, is he coping with the pressure of these highly unstable times?
And who else could step up? After Nicola Willis has fronted the fuel crisis, our panel discuss the signs of a new National leader.
Tiaki Wai and Wellington's water woes - As former Chair of Wellington Water, Nick Leggett shares his insight into the transfer of the water entities to Tiaki Wai ownership. The panel discuss the high-water bills and the necessity for them. Fitzsimmons wants more transparency for the reality of household's rates rises.
Then the surge in drugs seizures at the border - can NZ win the war on drugs? Customs Minister Casey Costello says “We’re not winning, but I wouldn’t say we’re losing.” Do our panel agree?
Leggett and Fitzsimmons address the harms it's doing to our community, and the solutions.
Plus, the panel give their hot and nots for the week.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face with Quidov Property Management, a better rental experience
for all. Visit quovic dot code on its head.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thursday, seven minutes past eleven. Clerford Simons, Welcome back Friday
face off is it? Mike One.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Very nice to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Nick, very nice to have you here. Nick Gleggett, nice
to see you again. I haven't seen you for a while.
You're looking sprightly and well and happy.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, that's what happens when you're not no longer the
chair of Wellington Water.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
You get your life back. It's it's been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I just tell you about a link down the road.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
It's been I'm still interston lenks like this. Still a
big job to do, isn't there? But that's yeah, not
my responsibility any longer.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Not your responsibility any longer. Let's I'm getting a little
bit I just said, or fair, I'm getting a little
bit of fed up. Not fed up, that's the wrong word.
I'm getting a little bit tired of talking about Iran
and ceasefires and you know, the ships getting through. Come on, flirt,
start me up, tell me what I should be thinking about,
and tell me how concerned you are.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well. It is a deeply unsettling time internationally, and I
think it does give us a chance to reflect on
how our leaders at home handling it, because we know
that crisis is a real test of leadership, and I
think what we've seen from Christopher Luxen has been woful.
He we had the American President contemplating ordering the destruction
(01:47):
of an entire civilization, which is a threshold moment. It
calls for real leadership. It demanded a really principled position,
and what do we see from Christopher Luxen barely anything.
I just think it's woeful leadership here at home, and
it's a test of him as Prime Minister, and internationally
he's out of step with other leaders. Chris Hipkins came
(02:08):
out strongly and boldly condemning it, which is unusual from
what position parties. But when the President of the United
States is talking about the destruction of an entire civilization,
we have to be much stronger. And I actually feel
let down by Christopher Luxan, and I had quite low expectations.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
To begin with. Realistically, I get I get your passion
and I understand and that's why you're here. But Nick Leggett,
we can't do anything here to change absolutely anything, can we?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
No, we can't.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And look, that's not really the measure though. We have
to take a principled stand, I mean whether or not.
I mean, you know, Donald Trump threatened the destruction of
a civilization.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Earlier this week, but he didn't do anything.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But it's unheard of for an American precia.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
But to do that, there are there are people, There
are people who are losing their lives every day. But look,
I because of the industry I work, I'm obviously quite
interested in the impact to ultimately people's lives in New Zealand.
And it just shows you how interconnected we are with
the rest of the world. This shock is an economic
(03:25):
shock as well, and it is going to affect people's
jobs and livelihoods. Businesses are not going to survive and
households are going to be under huge financial pressure. That's
what we actually need to stay focused on.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Can I just quickly ask you the same question that
I asked Nicola words, because you are connected, you can
everything that you do equates the diesel petrol.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, look, our economy is our whole economy is connected
to diesel and to feel more generally, and that's you know,
that's a that's another that's another discussion for another day.
But yes, of course infrastructure relies on machinery, on trucks,
on utes, but not just that, also on products that
(04:09):
are oil based in many cases if you think about
things like pipes and concrete and bitumen.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So what are your people telling you? How long do
we think it's going to carry on?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
They know, nobody knows like what we're trying to And
the thing about it is us even if everything open tomorrow,
the tale of this problem is going to be, you know,
is going to reverberate for it for a long while.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
How long it's a long while? Well are we talking
two months?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
How long is the piece?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
How long is a piece of string? All we've got
to go on? Really, if we go back to you know,
when Flora before Flair and I were born, I think,
but the oil shocks of the.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Seventies and that you might remember, and I suspect, but.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
To have a little.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I mean, I am really serious. The only that's all
we've sort of got to go on, and you will remember,
like I suspect Carlos Days and the impacts on New
Zealand pretty significant periods of time.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
We're in a shock at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
The challenges if it becomes a cycle and New Zealand
begins to you know, to go backwards economically, and that's
that's really scary.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But it's also a wake up call, like we should
be talking about electrification. This is the real time to
be having this conversation. And it's actually an opportunity. And
that's why I talk about being disappointed by the Prime Minister.
It is an opportunity for him to lead the best
of public policy decisions can be made in a crisis,
and we should be seeing a massive focus and shift
to renewable energy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Now we did an whole hour show. Can I just
say we talk about every house should have their own energy.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
So we've got a long way to go, you know,
in terms of distribution, We've got to we've got to
amp up our economy. We've got to obviously convert the
vehicle fleet. But I mean last quarter we were ninety
six percent renewable and that you know, so you build these.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Things over time. I think what this does do is
give us a big wake up call.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
We've got to we can't lose sight of that. But ultimately,
if you think about if you look at what's happened,
people are shifting to electric cars. Now that's a market
response and that that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Let's put some clarity on it to be fair, before
this particular crisis, once the actual the government handout to
evs had gone, it had gone completely.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And you're right to back up on that because governments
can show leadership and they didn't. This goverment to the
opposite by getting rid of those subsidies for electric vehicles.
And what we need to see is a much stronger
commitment to renewable energy. And government has a role to play.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
So they did the biggest sale of electric vehicle because
of the World War.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
It's called a market, but that's how the market works.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
How the point is all of us, you know, in
terms of whether we buy vehicles. You know, when we
think about buying vehicles, we're all going to go, now, shivers,
do we want to buy a vehicle that is reliant
on on fuel or on diesel?
Speaker 5 (07:05):
We will be thinking electric.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
And what we've got to ensure is that the generation
that the distribution the transmission of our energy sector is
investing fast enough and I think, I mean, I've got
some confidence in the leadership in that sector. But are
we investing fast enough? Are we Are we pushing the
boat out because we are so susceptible as a country
to what happens, you know, the shocks of the world.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Build this out.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I know we're going right off script here, but I
think it's worth talking about. Only a few weeks ago,
I watched the guy on Q and A that owns
the cherry farm that's in charge of the energy stuff.
You know, he's a spokesperson for electric you know, doing
your solar and all that stuff, and he just made
so much sense to me. I came on the show
(07:50):
the next day and said, why the hell are we
doing nothing? And still we're not doing I tell you
what we need to do. I tell you every new
house in New Zealand have to have solar on its foods.
That's number one, very simple, very cheap overall on the house.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Can I just say, I mean, I don't disagree. I
think people, you know, in their individual households, if they
can afford to make that choice, should But it's not baseload.
Nick we need to We need more geo thermal, We
need more soul and wind farms that actually give us baseloads.
So yep, you can supplement electricity. You know, your energy
in your own home, which is great, but we've actually
(08:27):
got to build it up as build our capacity up
as a nation.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
But we had what we had was public funding and
public support for solar panels. The government got rid of that.
It collapse that industry. We also need to see coastal shipping.
We need investment in public transport. We had free public transport.
This government got rid of it. Government needs to realize
it has a leadership role to play in making sure
that we move to renewable energy instead of vacating the
space and leaving it to the market. Because the market
(08:52):
doesn't work. These industries collapse if they don't have public
support and there's a public good in it. We need
to shift away from fossil fuels.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And sorry, Nick, to keep arguing with you, but having
an argument. This particular cherry farmer runs ninety one or
eighty nine percent of his whole farm on renewable from
his own own backyard. And guess what, over the last month,
his neighbors been coming over and borring his electric trackners great,
so we've got to do more.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
But it's but you've just told a success story that's happened.
You know, we've got to that point because of the
policies we've hadn't placed up until now. No, we've got
that transition is going to continue to happen. And that's
a great thing.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, but what shouldn't only happen for the rich? I mean,
he could afford to do it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
I absolutely agree with you. Think about subsidizing.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Think about the subsidized subsidization of electric vehicles, that benefit
of the rich, that benefited people who live in you know,
flash housers who can afford to buy a test.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, I'm sorry, but it didn't affect me because I
bought the top model and I didn't get the COT
so it didn't affect me. And I'm poor. Oh Friday,
face off, you know, I've got to tell you. And
it's Friday, big week, big night for Ultra to Night.
So I'm a little bit pumped. I've got a ticket,
and Grace is definitely a little bit pumped because she's
got a ticket. So we're kind of on a little
bit of a whole here and Friday face off and
(10:09):
I'm struggling to get any excitement out of Nick legged
He didn't even know what Ultra was, and he does.
He's attacking me at every stage and during the ad
break he had a real crack at me and Flur
jumped in as well. They're both having a crack at me.
They don't like me standing up for the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I can hear the violins playing outside.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Friday Fair. I'll probably gonna lose my job after this,
and that you might get a phone call. The Prime
Minister has just had a few stumbles this week. On breakfast,
he mistake one of the Mari MPs at not being
as in cabinet whatever time of Poduka, then mistake two
of his cabinet ministers for ushers. Flirt for Simons is
like if I'm ever going to open the door for
you to hit a six, I've done it, haven't I. Oh.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Look, he's absolutely unable to handle the pressure of being
Prime minister. He's got no vision for New Zealand, He's
not across the basics of the job. It was very
telling that he let his guard down and described himself
as a CEO, A CEO job is very different than
leading a country, and he's just he's just not up
for I also don't think he's got the character for it.
If I compare him with John Key, I mean, you know,
(11:11):
I would never have voted for John Key. I'm not
his big as fan. But actually there was something human
about him. He made jokes about his family group chat.
He was self deprecating. You'd want to met your parties
or your barbecue. There's just nothing like that with Lux
And he's completely unrelatable. He can't have a joke at
his own expense. He describes himself as sortid and entitled.
He's just way out of touch with Cylander.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I ask you a quick question, if you had a
one old one with them.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I've met him at a party at a party, yeah, yeah,
and actually I have to say it was perfectly pleasant
engagement and perfectly pleasant exchange. But I judge him on
how he leads our country, not how he behaves at parties,
and he doesn't. He's not able to express that vision
for our country or to have confidence with it cross
(11:56):
his brief.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean, to be fair, he's probably trying to clean
up a bit of a mess that some friends of
yours left, but I mean, let's be honest about that.
So he's probably not really the life and patrol of
the party. But I've always had a good relationship Nick Nigga.
What are your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
My thoughts are that it's a hard job, but he
hasn't really improved. And so if you look at what's
happened over the last two or three weeks, it's been
more than one week, it's I think that Christopher Luxon
is under pressure.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
He is under stress.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
You can be the chief executive of a large organization,
of which he was, it doesn't it doesn't equate to
being the prime minister. And you know, I think John
Key it was an aberration.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
If you look at.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Prime ministers in New Zealand, they've had long apprenticeships, perhaps
John Key being the only exception. Christoph Luxon came in
quite new to politics. And I want to give him credit.
He did lead his party to form the government. That's
a strong things, it's a positive.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And he's held does co listen together now you imagine, Well,
you mentioned being stuck in a m with Winston Peters.
I've had you know, I've had one interview with Winston
Peters and I was pulling my hair out, you know,
him and David Seymour were either side.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
They bully him. Look at the agenda that they've managed
to get.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
So they've done amazingly well.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And look at them in the polls like National is
down now into the twenties and some polls and Actors
down a bit, but Winston is flying high and that
that's indicative of if you think about John Key, he
expanded Nationals base, he expanded into the center, he expanded,
you know, and he ate up what the votes on
the right. Christopher Laxson hasn't be able to do that.
(13:41):
I mean, I think what's concerning is and it would
be concerning for Nationals if you think about Nikola Willis
and Chris Bishop, arguably, you know, two of the most
significant National Party members of the cabinet.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Their future in Parliament is.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Under question at the moment because of where National is polling.
And that is I don't think that's something that can't
be avoided. I would say this government is difficult in
these times, it's hard and governments. I was thinking Flair
take Australia. Over the last fifteen years in Australia, Kevin
rad Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull all won elections
(14:21):
and were rolled within the first term. It's it's not
unheard of. And I suspect, you know, National will be
thinking about where, you know, what they do because it
is only a few months to the election.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Okay, Now, I don't have a problem with the CEO
being Prime Minister because I want the business run properly,
so I don't have a problem with that. It's not
a business.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
It's about well, that's part of the job and that's
why you have a good Minister of Finance. It's about leadership.
It's about a vision for the country.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Setting CEO.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Well, I would say they do.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, you got a vision. You've got to have a
vision for infrastructure.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Using point is you've got that, you've got to be
able to articulate that, you've got to be able to
deliver on it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But also he treats his people badly. Look what he
did to christ Biship this week. He demoted him and
then he embarrassed him in his press conference. What Helen
Clarke would do. She keep her friends closer and her
enemies closer. He doesn't understand, is the CEO you have
the power as a politician. You don't, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I can hear the listeners yelling at the radio Nick
ask them who else? Who does it? I mean, we've
just had Nikola Willison here. She's a changed person. She's
we're under crisis. She stood, she is, she ready.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
She's really impressive. And I think Chris Bishop is as well.
Chris is. I mean I deal a bit with him
in infrastructure. Chris is.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
A rare beast among politicians these days. He's thinking about
obviously the politics at the moment, he's also thinking about
the future, and he's thinking about how to build a
system within government that can deliver and rima reform as
a classic example of that. Some of the other modifications
he's made to infrastructure.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
He can also reach across.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
The aisle really effectively too. So you know, there are
there are some There are good.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
People in Nashville.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
There are good people who are capable of of leadership.
But you know it's going to be ultimately, you know,
for Christopher Luxan probably to think about, you know, can
he improve, like just brought in some communications support. I
read today that will you know that that that could
make a difference. But ultimately you know, we're in a
shock and it's been a difficult three years and the
(16:28):
country does need people do want a leader.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I keep hearing from from my information from people inside
of the Beehive that that if there was going to
be a change, it would be Chris Bishop because he's
real and they don't have any real people and and
you know farmers would get to him. And who's real.
But Nichola Willis over the last few weeks must have
stamped her name on it really strongly.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I think you're right about Chris Bishop being real, and
he's got that kind of bogue and appeal that Paula
Bennett had, which I think would play well with the
National Party. But he has really no, no, no in terms
of that point Nick was making about expanding the National
Party and and he'll keep the he'll keep the traditional supporters.
I guess the problem with him is he has really
got Auckland offside with what he's done with his housing densification.
(17:14):
And there's also a strong kind of Christian fundamentalist base
in the National Party now now he doesn't appeal to them,
nor does Nichola Willis. So I'd be looking at somebody
like Simme and Brown. He's deeply political. He's been valued
and favored by the Prime Minister recently. I've met with
him a number of times. Disarmingly charming and very hes
got skills, very very clever.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
He's really read.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I mean, you just just be yelling out that you
want leadership and you want this. He's not that well,
how do you know, Well, you can see he's five
foot tall and come on, leadership.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
We've had we've had short actually Christopher Luxe and is
very short. We've had and we've had.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Short prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I just think about who the National Party would want.
He's Auckland based, he's got that Christian fundamentalist base. He's
performing fairly well if you you know on the terms
that National Party judge it. I mean, I think the
government's a disaster and it's terrible for New Zealand. But
if you think about from their perspective, I think he's
the sort of person i'd look at. And also they
need Auckland.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
And they need a minimum of probably thirty five percent
of the vote. That's actually like it is a numbers game,
isn't it, And so that will be I assume playing
on their strategist mind.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
I would get them to that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I would have thought, as a real lifer, a person
that works in real life, I would have thought that
that would be replacing like for like. I would have
thought that that was as close to Luxon, And if
you look around their power base, he's as close to
Luxe and Simian Brown's as close to Luxon as you can.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
He's much more political than He's bred, born and bred
in politics. He's a deeply political person. Unlike Luxon, who
really was corporate. Simon is political and I think he'd
be quite damaging for New Zealand because of some of
his hard out Christian fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Got a lot of power.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
But then you know, I think Fairs being slightly. I
think she's been liberately trying to sort of promote some men.
I mean there's also Mark Mitchell and Erica Stamford as well.
If we're talking Auckland, so you know there are.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's a race between two and we all know it,
Nichola Willis and Chris Bishop.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
The problem is Wellington. That's a Wellington center.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Like Flur's right, you know there is there. The National
Party is a liberal conservative party. There are two wings
and you know, realistically there'll be potentially a candidate from
the conservative as Flair outlined it well, and then the
liberal wing, which Nicola Willis and Chris Bishop both come from,
and I think Erica Stanford does too. So it is
(19:46):
it will be who has supremacy in the caucus if
it even comes to a vote, you know where.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well, we've got lots more to talk about. We've got
to get some headlines. We had to get back this
calm us all down and have some headlines and then
we'll be back. Oh Flurfitt, Simon's union boss. I suppose
I should have said that National Secretary of Public Service Association,
Nick leg At, Chief Executive Infrastructure New Zealand and former
mayor of Wellington. I don't think. Sorry he ran for Wellington.
(20:16):
He missed out. It's Friday face off and we're a
bit loose today. Well I'm a bit loose today because
I'm sort of so excited about Ultra coming to town
and what Wellington's going to look like Tonight flew for
Simons and Nick Leggett join us for Friday face off. Water, water, water,
water everywhere. It's becoming clear that no one can justify
the cost of the new water bill from Tiwaku. Why
(20:37):
the evidence Tiaki? Why metro water, as I'd like to
call it, The evidence is not substantial according to the chair,
Well Pete, all right, nick leget start us up. I
mean I was probably it's a pretty sensitive question to
ask you. No one seems to know what the hell's
going on?
Speaker 5 (20:52):
All I'm free?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Now do you do you do you know what's run?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
What was that?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Do you know what's going on?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Well?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
In what sense?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
How like?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
So you know we don't know well and as a region,
so you think the valley put it a in Wellington
City is leaking about thirty seven percent of the water
that we take out of the environment every day, and
we treat, we pay to treat, and you know almost
forty percent of it doesn't get to the pipes. I
think that's a bad thing. I think we need to
(21:24):
invest money over time to improve the condition of pipes,
and I think we need to meeter people to so
we all think about our consumption and we've got a
revenue stream to pay for the renewal of those pipes.
The idea that the region or that the country even
we know we've got these sort of leaking pipes under
(21:47):
our streets. The idea that it's not going to cost
more money to fix that.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
You know, we're in lala land.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
If we don't, if we don't appreciate that, now, stretch
just the wrong.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Yeah, well that's the question, right.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So this, this new organization is completely different for Wellington.
It's going to own the assets and it's going to
charge for the sets. Previously, Wellington Water did what it's
told by the councils and it you know, had to
get what it was given. So it's going to be
quite different and it's going to take a long time
(22:19):
to fix. Like Pat Doherty who's the chiefs everyone, you know,
he says this more eloquently than I. But because of
where we're you know, Wellington's pipe network, waste water and
water network is not going to have a day as
good as today for another twelve to fifteen years because
it's going to take that long for this new entity
(22:40):
to get itself sorted and get investing. It's going to
be a slow ramp up. Hopefully over time they'll be
able to get some efficiencies, but we are going to
be paying more and that's a hard thing to hear
in a cost of living crisis. Right, it's a hard
thing to hear. Hard, but is it is? It feels
like there's no way out. But if we want to
live in a region that respects its environment, that is
(23:06):
not making more water than ni, that's not contaminating its harbor,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Water with all the most respect in the world. You're
talking like someone that can afford this money. There's a
whole other people that's stun me in the street every day. Well,
tell tell you what.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
I'll tell you what. Noe, we won't have.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It will be an economic destructor of Wellington if we
do not deal with us over the next fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
No, we can't afford not to do it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So, yes, we do need to balance the way we
pay for this. We need to take it over time.
We need to look for smart ways of replacing pipes
and doing things more efficiently and having a proper pipeline.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Of work as they say, but.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
We do.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
It's going to cost us more fleur.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You've sat on those councils, You've kicked that can down
the road. We have got a problem. But don't we
just want and I'm asking you actually some idea and
some absolutes in this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Well, absolutely we need transparency. We need transparency about what
it's going to cost. So the current government came in
with a lot of fan fare and played irresponsible politics
during the election campaign around the Three Waters reforms. They
bought their own policy in local water done well. What
we haven't seen from them is any kind of sense
of reality or commitment or even transparency about what it's
(24:23):
going to cost. We're in a cost of living crisis.
This government got elected on the basis that would have
a razor sharp focus on the cost of living. And
what do we know now? Water is going to cost
households hundreds, possibly thousands more dollars and there's no transparency
from government, there's no ownership and what have they've done instead?
Tanked the Wellington economy. It is totally irresponsible politics when
(24:44):
they were in opposition and since they've been in government.
We deserve better.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
What could we do better?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well, we need to know what the real costs are.
We need proper investment and we need government support to
make sure that the economic costs of it are done
in the least harmful way to households. And there were
policy initiatives in the Three Waters of the previous government
that did that that this government took a and said
that they don't like and there was commitment to investment
(25:10):
that we're not seeing from this government.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I've got to take a break, but I've got to
put in there that this can be solved with time,
and I think when that's not part of the equation
at the moment, instead of talking ten years and ten grand,
we should be talking forty years, because if we do
fix it, it'll last for forty years, so we should
all pay for it equally. That's my humble opinion on
the store for flairfit Simon's and Nick Leggett. New Zealand
(25:34):
is seeing a massive surgeon drug imports at the border.
The first four months of twenty twenty five at Auckland
Airport the same amount of drugs were seized, and the
total from all airports the whole year. Cocaine in particular,
is rising. Customs Minister Casey Costello says we're not winning,
but I wouldn't say we're losing flairforit. Simon. If you've
(25:57):
got that much drugs coming into the country, you're losing.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
That's right, and she should take responsibility for it because
her government imposed cuts on the custom service and that
meant that we lost customs officers, for example at the
Port of Timaru, but also the custom service needs more investment,
not these cuts. They've also seen the police withdrawal from
mental health support. We know that when we talk to
mental health workers, what they are seeing huge meth problems.
(26:21):
They're presenting as mental illness, but actually it's drug addiction.
We also are not seeing investment in desperately needed drug
rehabilitation facilities. This government claims to be tough on crime,
but what we're seeing is a surge in drug use
and a surge in drugs coming across the border, and
they need to take responsibility. The role of government is
(26:42):
to make New Zealand better instead of just admiring problems
like Casey Costello is doing here.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Cocaine, Nick Leggott. When I grew up, cocaine was for
the very super rich and super famous people. Now it's
on the streets and we have got a problem, haven't we.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah, But what Flairs just outlined is kind of the
reaction to the problem. The problem does actually starts beyond
our borders. Obviously there's a demand in this country for drugs,
but I was looking, you know, when you read this.
More drugs were seized in the first four months of
last year than across airport all airports in the country
in twenty twenty four. We're actually doing a better job
(27:20):
of finding and stopping drugs coming in.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
So I don't how do you.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Tell you though, I mean, yeah, but look at the
point of origin there are more drugs.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
So but what I would say is isn't it better
to know about it and stop it than kind of not?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
So let's take a bit of a one.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
The question is we're obviously generating demand here as you know,
New Zealander is obviously using drugs, so that's what attracts
them into the country. What are the causes there? And
then how do we actually stop drugs from even coming
towards New Zealand in the first place? Where are the
international markets that they're being produced and generated? And I
(27:59):
mean the border is just one part of you know,
quite a wide puzzle.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
So I think it is a concern.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
It's it's certainly a concern because you know, we would
all know people, you know, in workforces that are impacted
by drug use and farno who are impacted by drug use,
and that has a massive impact on health and on
our economy, and so I I just wonder, I just
wonder where the wider health picture is here for New
(28:27):
Zealand and what are we doing, How are we working
with other nations to actually, you know, where these drugs
are coming from? And how we what are we doing
to intervene?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, another thing side sidetracked to that, because there's such
a big festival on this weekend and tonight.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Thanks for telling you.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'll keep you up with the plane if you want
to find out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Always association, what about.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Drug testing at festivals? What are you what are your
thoughts on that? Do you reckon? That's a good idea flip.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Absolutely, it's a fundamental element of drug of having these festivals.
Now you have to have drug testing. We have to
make sure that people are if they're going to take drugs,
that they are safe in it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
It's kind of contradicted in life. I mean, I agree
with you totally. I totally agree with you, But you
mean we're testing the drugs to see how how you know,
screwed up? It's going to make you. I mean, Nikki,
you are you think that we should have them or not?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
You're on balance? I do like I mean, I to.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Me, we are like I thought that we should have
decriminalized or legalized marijuana and and had a much more
vigilant roadside testing campaign, which is I think is you
know it's just so ly getting there. But you know,
fewer people, of course are drinking alcohol, and so.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know the reason they're not drinking alcohol because drugs
are so damned cheap.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
That's yeah, No, I do see the link here like
a calories issue, drugs laughing about dug drugs help you
burn them off, and yeah, alcohol adds add to calories.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I took a friend the other day, Nick, and he
was saying I gave him a left home and he
was saying he'd heard a bit on the radio about
me and talking about drugs. And he said, Nick, I
have never been to a party that people are taking
m d m A ever and seen anybody but cuddling
and kissing and having a good time. I said, does
that make it right? And he says makes it a
hell of a lot right, getting drunk and body to fight.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Actually, the calories point is a serious one. I do
hear more young people taking MDMA and other things because
they don't have the calories of wine and beer.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Yeah, which is and those alcopop drinks that young people
used to want to gravitate to.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Take a sure break, take a short break and come
and get hots. Come back and get hots and knots
from Nick Leggett and flur Fit Simon's I never I
mean it's a new one, but it's a good one.
Take drugs to lose calorie. I mean you know something
in that one for.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Me not recommended by either flur or my son, but it's.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Not a I'd rough far out that go for a
big run the frit than Remind me after I've asked
this question to tell you what we were talking about
in the break, Flurfitt Simon's give me your hots and knots.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, my hot is the great weekend we've got ahead
of us in Wellington. Here, we've got the Pulse game,
got Ultra. There's so much going on, So sorry, I
know there's other sport too. I'm a big netball fan
and town was pumping, so it's so exciting. I also
just want to give a shout out to a decision
made by the government to support care and support workers
with their petrol. There was a thirty percent increase to
(31:26):
the milage rate that they are paid now. They did
have their pay equity clim canceled by the government. But
I also do want to acknowledge this because it's important.
These are people who provide care in clients' homes. They
have to use their own vehicles, and there has been
a really important increase to that. Just in terms of
my not it's health. New Zealand having a go at
the New Zealand Nurses Organization nurses who were on strike
(31:47):
wearing stickers which express their support for safe staffing and hospitals,
saying that was a health and safety risk. It is
ridiculous and it's a complete overreaction. It's low level strike
action that should be encouraged, not this is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Haven't gone around and told the five trucks not to
have the big sidnes on the twice tracks sensibly not
Nick gleg it, give me your hots and knots. I
know it's a favorite segment of the show with you I.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Hots knots, but I do have a hot and flair
prompted me at school holidays and she also said that
could be a knot and maybe it could be as well.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But I was the one that said it was a
hot She was that said.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
It was and it was like, well, I'm going to
make it my hot and my not.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
But actually the hot part of it is I feel
a lot more present with my kids this week. I've
been away, you know, a couple of days, but like
last night, just having the space to put them in
the lounge, they could sleep there. They had a great
time and just being a little bit more present than normal.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
And that's great.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I mean, still painful, and you know, you have far
too much energy and all that, but it's good to
spend the time, as you pointed out, and that you
don't get the time back.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
No, And my hot is that you're taking them after
you finish the show, which.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
You Yes, the two of them are here with me.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
That's true, Yes, to go and see you. They're great Auntie.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I loved my great auntie Auntie Marge. You know I
loved her. So are they going to get to have
that experience. It's great, it's.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Hot, yeah, and it's there great great Auntie as well,
so it's even more significant.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And by the way, they reckon, I'm an extrovert and
I think I'm shy, come back and wrap the show
in a minute from the Shy Guy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face with Quidov Property Management, a better rental experience
for all. Visit quovic dot code on its head.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thursday, seven minutes past eleven. Clerford Simons, Welcome back Friday
face off is it? Mike One.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Very nice to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Nick, very nice to have you here. Nick Gleggett, nice
to see you again. I haven't seen you for a while.
You're looking sprightly and well and happy.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, that's what happens when you're not no longer the
chair of Wellington Water.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
You get your life back. It's it's been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I just tell you about a link down the road.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
It's been I'm still interston lenks like this. Still a
big job to do, isn't there? But that's yeah, not
my responsibility any longer.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Not your responsibility any longer. Let's I'm getting a little
bit I just said, or fair, I'm getting a little
bit of fed up. Not fed up, that's the wrong word.
I'm getting a little bit tired of talking about Iran
and ceasefires and you know, the ships getting through. Come on, flirt,
start me up, tell me what I should be thinking about,
and tell me how concerned you are.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well. It is a deeply unsettling time internationally, and I
think it does give us a chance to reflect on
how our leaders at home handling it, because we know
that crisis is a real test of leadership, and I
think what we've seen from Christopher Luxen has been woful.
He we had the American President contemplating ordering the destruction
(01:47):
of an entire civilization, which is a threshold moment. It
calls for real leadership. It demanded a really principled position,
and what do we see from Christopher Luxen barely anything.
I just think it's woeful leadership here at home, and
it's a test of him as Prime Minister, and internationally
he's out of step with other leaders. Chris Hipkins came
(02:08):
out strongly and boldly condemning it, which is unusual from
what position parties. But when the President of the United
States is talking about the destruction of an entire civilization,
we have to be much stronger. And I actually feel
let down by Christopher Luxan, and I had quite low expectations.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
To begin with. Realistically, I get I get your passion
and I understand and that's why you're here. But Nick Leggett,
we can't do anything here to change absolutely anything, can we?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
No, we can't.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And look, that's not really the measure though. We have
to take a principled stand, I mean whether or not.
I mean, you know, Donald Trump threatened the destruction of
a civilization.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Earlier this week, but he didn't do anything.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But it's unheard of for an American precia.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
But to do that, there are there are people, There
are people who are losing their lives every day. But look,
I because of the industry I work, I'm obviously quite
interested in the impact to ultimately people's lives in New Zealand.
And it just shows you how interconnected we are with
the rest of the world. This shock is an economic
(03:25):
shock as well, and it is going to affect people's
jobs and livelihoods. Businesses are not going to survive and
households are going to be under huge financial pressure. That's
what we actually need to stay focused on.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Can I just quickly ask you the same question that
I asked Nicola words, because you are connected, you can
everything that you do equates the diesel petrol.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, look, our economy is our whole economy is connected
to diesel and to feel more generally, and that's you know,
that's a that's another that's another discussion for another day.
But yes, of course infrastructure relies on machinery, on trucks,
on utes, but not just that, also on products that
(04:09):
are oil based in many cases if you think about
things like pipes and concrete and bitumen.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So what are your people telling you? How long do
we think it's going to carry on?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
They know, nobody knows like what we're trying to And
the thing about it is us even if everything open tomorrow,
the tale of this problem is going to be, you know,
is going to reverberate for it for a long while.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
How long it's a long while? Well are we talking
two months?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
How long is the piece?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
How long is a piece of string? All we've got
to go on? Really, if we go back to you know,
when Flora before Flair and I were born, I think,
but the oil shocks of the.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Seventies and that you might remember, and I suspect, but.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
To have a little.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I mean, I am really serious. The only that's all
we've sort of got to go on, and you will remember,
like I suspect Carlos Days and the impacts on New
Zealand pretty significant periods of time.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
We're in a shock at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
The challenges if it becomes a cycle and New Zealand
begins to you know, to go backwards economically, and that's
that's really scary.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
But it's also a wake up call, like we should
be talking about electrification. This is the real time to
be having this conversation. And it's actually an opportunity. And
that's why I talk about being disappointed by the Prime Minister.
It is an opportunity for him to lead the best
of public policy decisions can be made in a crisis,
and we should be seeing a massive focus and shift
to renewable energy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Now we did an whole hour show. Can I just
say we talk about every house should have their own energy.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
So we've got a long way to go, you know,
in terms of distribution, We've got to we've got to
amp up our economy. We've got to obviously convert the
vehicle fleet. But I mean last quarter we were ninety
six percent renewable and that you know, so you build these.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Things over time. I think what this does do is
give us a big wake up call.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
We've got to we can't lose sight of that. But ultimately,
if you think about if you look at what's happened,
people are shifting to electric cars. Now that's a market
response and that that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Let's put some clarity on it to be fair, before
this particular crisis, once the actual the government handout to
evs had gone, it had gone completely.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And you're right to back up on that because governments
can show leadership and they didn't. This goverment to the
opposite by getting rid of those subsidies for electric vehicles.
And what we need to see is a much stronger
commitment to renewable energy. And government has a role to play.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
So they did the biggest sale of electric vehicle because
of the World War.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
It's called a market, but that's how the market works.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
How the point is all of us, you know, in
terms of whether we buy vehicles. You know, when we
think about buying vehicles, we're all going to go, now, shivers,
do we want to buy a vehicle that is reliant
on on fuel or on diesel?
Speaker 5 (07:05):
We will be thinking electric.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
And what we've got to ensure is that the generation
that the distribution the transmission of our energy sector is
investing fast enough and I think, I mean, I've got
some confidence in the leadership in that sector. But are
we investing fast enough? Are we Are we pushing the
boat out because we are so susceptible as a country
to what happens, you know, the shocks of the world.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Build this out.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I know we're going right off script here, but I
think it's worth talking about. Only a few weeks ago,
I watched the guy on Q and A that owns
the cherry farm that's in charge of the energy stuff.
You know, he's a spokesperson for electric you know, doing
your solar and all that stuff, and he just made
so much sense to me. I came on the show
(07:50):
the next day and said, why the hell are we
doing nothing? And still we're not doing I tell you
what we need to do. I tell you every new
house in New Zealand have to have solar on its foods.
That's number one, very simple, very cheap overall on the house.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Can I just say, I mean, I don't disagree. I
think people, you know, in their individual households, if they
can afford to make that choice, should But it's not baseload.
Nick we need to We need more geo thermal, We
need more soul and wind farms that actually give us baseloads.
So yep, you can supplement electricity. You know, your energy
in your own home, which is great, but we've actually
(08:27):
got to build it up as build our capacity up
as a nation.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
But we had what we had was public funding and
public support for solar panels. The government got rid of that.
It collapse that industry. We also need to see coastal shipping.
We need investment in public transport. We had free public transport.
This government got rid of it. Government needs to realize
it has a leadership role to play in making sure
that we move to renewable energy instead of vacating the
space and leaving it to the market. Because the market
(08:52):
doesn't work. These industries collapse if they don't have public
support and there's a public good in it. We need
to shift away from fossil fuels.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And sorry, Nick, to keep arguing with you, but having
an argument. This particular cherry farmer runs ninety one or
eighty nine percent of his whole farm on renewable from
his own own backyard. And guess what, over the last month,
his neighbors been coming over and borring his electric trackners great,
so we've got to do more.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
But it's but you've just told a success story that's happened.
You know, we've got to that point because of the
policies we've hadn't placed up until now. No, we've got
that transition is going to continue to happen. And that's
a great thing.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, but what shouldn't only happen for the rich? I mean,
he could afford to do it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
I absolutely agree with you. Think about subsidizing.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Think about the subsidized subsidization of electric vehicles, that benefit
of the rich, that benefited people who live in you know,
flash housers who can afford to buy a test.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, I'm sorry, but it didn't affect me because I
bought the top model and I didn't get the COT
so it didn't affect me. And I'm poor. Oh Friday,
face off, you know, I've got to tell you. And
it's Friday, big week, big night for Ultra to Night.
So I'm a little bit pumped. I've got a ticket,
and Grace is definitely a little bit pumped because she's
got a ticket. So we're kind of on a little
bit of a whole here and Friday face off and
(10:09):
I'm struggling to get any excitement out of Nick legged
He didn't even know what Ultra was, and he does.
He's attacking me at every stage and during the ad
break he had a real crack at me and Flur
jumped in as well. They're both having a crack at me.
They don't like me standing up for the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I can hear the violins playing outside.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Friday Fair. I'll probably gonna lose my job after this,
and that you might get a phone call. The Prime
Minister has just had a few stumbles this week. On breakfast,
he mistake one of the Mari MPs at not being
as in cabinet whatever time of Poduka, then mistake two
of his cabinet ministers for ushers. Flirt for Simons is
like if I'm ever going to open the door for
you to hit a six, I've done it, haven't I. Oh.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Look, he's absolutely unable to handle the pressure of being
Prime minister. He's got no vision for New Zealand, He's
not across the basics of the job. It was very
telling that he let his guard down and described himself
as a CEO, A CEO job is very different than
leading a country, and he's just he's just not up
for I also don't think he's got the character for it.
If I compare him with John Key, I mean, you know,
(11:11):
I would never have voted for John Key. I'm not
his big as fan. But actually there was something human
about him. He made jokes about his family group chat.
He was self deprecating. You'd want to met your parties
or your barbecue. There's just nothing like that with Lux
And he's completely unrelatable. He can't have a joke at
his own expense. He describes himself as sortid and entitled.
He's just way out of touch with Cylander.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I ask you a quick question, if you had a
one old one with them.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I've met him at a party at a party, yeah, yeah,
and actually I have to say it was perfectly pleasant
engagement and perfectly pleasant exchange. But I judge him on
how he leads our country, not how he behaves at parties,
and he doesn't. He's not able to express that vision
for our country or to have confidence with it cross
(11:56):
his brief.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean, to be fair, he's probably trying to clean
up a bit of a mess that some friends of
yours left, but I mean, let's be honest about that.
So he's probably not really the life and patrol of
the party. But I've always had a good relationship Nick Nigga.
What are your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
My thoughts are that it's a hard job, but he
hasn't really improved. And so if you look at what's
happened over the last two or three weeks, it's been
more than one week, it's I think that Christopher Luxon
is under pressure.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
He is under stress.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
You can be the chief executive of a large organization,
of which he was, it doesn't it doesn't equate to
being the prime minister. And you know, I think John
Key it was an aberration.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
If you look at.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Prime ministers in New Zealand, they've had long apprenticeships, perhaps
John Key being the only exception. Christoph Luxon came in
quite new to politics. And I want to give him credit.
He did lead his party to form the government. That's
a strong things, it's a positive.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And he's held does co listen together now you imagine, Well,
you mentioned being stuck in a m with Winston Peters.
I've had you know, I've had one interview with Winston
Peters and I was pulling my hair out, you know,
him and David Seymour were either side.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
They bully him. Look at the agenda that they've managed
to get.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
So they've done amazingly well.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And look at them in the polls like National is
down now into the twenties and some polls and Actors
down a bit, but Winston is flying high and that
that's indicative of if you think about John Key, he
expanded Nationals base, he expanded into the center, he expanded,
you know, and he ate up what the votes on
the right. Christopher Laxson hasn't be able to do that.
(13:41):
I mean, I think what's concerning is and it would
be concerning for Nationals if you think about Nikola Willis
and Chris Bishop, arguably, you know, two of the most
significant National Party members of the cabinet.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Their future in Parliament is.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Under question at the moment because of where National is polling.
And that is I don't think that's something that can't
be avoided. I would say this government is difficult in
these times, it's hard and governments. I was thinking Flair
take Australia. Over the last fifteen years in Australia, Kevin
rad Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull all won elections
(14:21):
and were rolled within the first term. It's it's not
unheard of. And I suspect, you know, National will be
thinking about where, you know, what they do because it
is only a few months to the election.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Okay, Now, I don't have a problem with the CEO
being Prime Minister because I want the business run properly,
so I don't have a problem with that. It's not
a business.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
It's about well, that's part of the job and that's
why you have a good Minister of Finance. It's about leadership.
It's about a vision for the country.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Setting CEO.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Well, I would say they do.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, you got a vision. You've got to have a
vision for infrastructure.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Using point is you've got that, you've got to be
able to articulate that, you've got to be able to
deliver on it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But also he treats his people badly. Look what he
did to christ Biship this week. He demoted him and
then he embarrassed him in his press conference. What Helen
Clarke would do. She keep her friends closer and her
enemies closer. He doesn't understand, is the CEO you have
the power as a politician. You don't, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I can hear the listeners yelling at the radio Nick
ask them who else? Who does it? I mean, we've
just had Nikola Willison here. She's a changed person. She's
we're under crisis. She stood, she is, she ready.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
She's really impressive. And I think Chris Bishop is as well.
Chris is. I mean I deal a bit with him
in infrastructure. Chris is.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
A rare beast among politicians these days. He's thinking about
obviously the politics at the moment, he's also thinking about
the future, and he's thinking about how to build a
system within government that can deliver and rima reform as
a classic example of that. Some of the other modifications
he's made to infrastructure.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
He can also reach across.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
The aisle really effectively too. So you know, there are
there are some There are good.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
People in Nashville.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
There are good people who are capable of of leadership.
But you know it's going to be ultimately, you know,
for Christopher Luxan probably to think about, you know, can
he improve, like just brought in some communications support. I
read today that will you know that that that could
make a difference. But ultimately you know, we're in a
shock and it's been a difficult three years and the
(16:28):
country does need people do want a leader.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I keep hearing from from my information from people inside
of the Beehive that that if there was going to
be a change, it would be Chris Bishop because he's
real and they don't have any real people and and
you know farmers would get to him. And who's real.
But Nichola Willis over the last few weeks must have
stamped her name on it really strongly.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I think you're right about Chris Bishop being real, and
he's got that kind of bogue and appeal that Paula
Bennett had, which I think would play well with the
National Party. But he has really no, no, no in terms
of that point Nick was making about expanding the National
Party and and he'll keep the he'll keep the traditional supporters.
I guess the problem with him is he has really
got Auckland offside with what he's done with his housing densification.
(17:14):
And there's also a strong kind of Christian fundamentalist base
in the National Party now now he doesn't appeal to them,
nor does Nichola Willis. So I'd be looking at somebody
like Simme and Brown. He's deeply political. He's been valued
and favored by the Prime Minister recently. I've met with
him a number of times. Disarmingly charming and very hes
got skills, very very clever.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
He's really read.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I mean, you just just be yelling out that you
want leadership and you want this. He's not that well,
how do you know, Well, you can see he's five
foot tall and come on, leadership.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
We've had we've had short actually Christopher Luxe and is
very short. We've had and we've had.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Short prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I just think about who the National Party would want.
He's Auckland based, he's got that Christian fundamentalist base. He's
performing fairly well if you you know on the terms
that National Party judge it. I mean, I think the
government's a disaster and it's terrible for New Zealand. But
if you think about from their perspective, I think he's
the sort of person i'd look at. And also they
need Auckland.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
And they need a minimum of probably thirty five percent
of the vote. That's actually like it is a numbers game,
isn't it, And so that will be I assume playing
on their strategist mind.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
I would get them to that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I would have thought, as a real lifer, a person
that works in real life, I would have thought that
that would be replacing like for like. I would have
thought that that was as close to Luxon, And if
you look around their power base, he's as close to
Luxe and Simian Brown's as close to Luxon as you can.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
He's much more political than He's bred, born and bred
in politics. He's a deeply political person. Unlike Luxon, who
really was corporate. Simon is political and I think he'd
be quite damaging for New Zealand because of some of
his hard out Christian fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Got a lot of power.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
But then you know, I think Fairs being slightly. I
think she's been liberately trying to sort of promote some men.
I mean there's also Mark Mitchell and Erica Stamford as well.
If we're talking Auckland, so you know there are.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's a race between two and we all know it,
Nichola Willis and Chris Bishop.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
The problem is Wellington. That's a Wellington center.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Like Flur's right, you know there is there. The National
Party is a liberal conservative party. There are two wings
and you know, realistically there'll be potentially a candidate from
the conservative as Flair outlined it well, and then the
liberal wing, which Nicola Willis and Chris Bishop both come from,
and I think Erica Stanford does too. So it is
(19:46):
it will be who has supremacy in the caucus if
it even comes to a vote, you know where.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well, we've got lots more to talk about. We've got
to get some headlines. We had to get back this
calm us all down and have some headlines and then
we'll be back. Oh Flurfitt, Simon's union boss. I suppose
I should have said that National Secretary of Public Service Association,
Nick leg At, Chief Executive Infrastructure New Zealand and former
mayor of Wellington. I don't think. Sorry he ran for Wellington.
(20:16):
He missed out. It's Friday face off and we're a
bit loose today. Well I'm a bit loose today because
I'm sort of so excited about Ultra coming to town
and what Wellington's going to look like Tonight flew for
Simons and Nick Leggett join us for Friday face off. Water, water, water,
water everywhere. It's becoming clear that no one can justify
the cost of the new water bill from Tiwaku. Why
(20:37):
the evidence Tiaki? Why metro water, as I'd like to
call it, The evidence is not substantial according to the chair,
Well Pete, all right, nick leget start us up. I
mean I was probably it's a pretty sensitive question to
ask you. No one seems to know what the hell's
going on?
Speaker 5 (20:52):
All I'm free?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Now do you do you do you know what's run?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
What was that?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Do you know what's going on?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Well?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
In what sense?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
How like?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
So you know we don't know well and as a region,
so you think the valley put it a in Wellington
City is leaking about thirty seven percent of the water
that we take out of the environment every day, and
we treat, we pay to treat, and you know almost
forty percent of it doesn't get to the pipes. I
think that's a bad thing. I think we need to
(21:24):
invest money over time to improve the condition of pipes,
and I think we need to meeter people to so
we all think about our consumption and we've got a
revenue stream to pay for the renewal of those pipes.
The idea that the region or that the country even
we know we've got these sort of leaking pipes under
(21:47):
our streets. The idea that it's not going to cost
more money to fix that.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
You know, we're in lala land.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
If we don't, if we don't appreciate that, now, stretch
just the wrong.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Yeah, well that's the question, right.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
So this, this new organization is completely different for Wellington.
It's going to own the assets and it's going to
charge for the sets. Previously, Wellington Water did what it's
told by the councils and it you know, had to
get what it was given. So it's going to be
quite different and it's going to take a long time
(22:19):
to fix. Like Pat Doherty who's the chiefs everyone, you know,
he says this more eloquently than I. But because of
where we're you know, Wellington's pipe network, waste water and
water network is not going to have a day as
good as today for another twelve to fifteen years because
it's going to take that long for this new entity
(22:40):
to get itself sorted and get investing. It's going to
be a slow ramp up. Hopefully over time they'll be
able to get some efficiencies, but we are going to
be paying more and that's a hard thing to hear
in a cost of living crisis. Right, it's a hard
thing to hear. Hard, but is it is? It feels
like there's no way out. But if we want to
live in a region that respects its environment, that is
(23:06):
not making more water than ni, that's not contaminating its harbor,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Water with all the most respect in the world. You're
talking like someone that can afford this money. There's a
whole other people that's stun me in the street every day. Well,
tell tell you what.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
I'll tell you what. Noe, we won't have.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
It will be an economic destructor of Wellington if we
do not deal with us over the next fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
No, we can't afford not to do it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So, yes, we do need to balance the way we
pay for this. We need to take it over time.
We need to look for smart ways of replacing pipes
and doing things more efficiently and having a proper pipeline.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Of work as they say, but.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
We do.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
It's going to cost us more fleur.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You've sat on those councils, You've kicked that can down
the road. We have got a problem. But don't we
just want and I'm asking you actually some idea and
some absolutes in this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Well, absolutely we need transparency. We need transparency about what
it's going to cost. So the current government came in
with a lot of fan fare and played irresponsible politics
during the election campaign around the Three Waters reforms. They
bought their own policy in local water done well. What
we haven't seen from them is any kind of sense
of reality or commitment or even transparency about what it's
(24:23):
going to cost. We're in a cost of living crisis.
This government got elected on the basis that would have
a razor sharp focus on the cost of living. And
what do we know now? Water is going to cost
households hundreds, possibly thousands more dollars and there's no transparency
from government, there's no ownership and what have they've done instead?
Tanked the Wellington economy. It is totally irresponsible politics when
(24:44):
they were in opposition and since they've been in government.
We deserve better.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
What could we do better?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well, we need to know what the real costs are.
We need proper investment and we need government support to
make sure that the economic costs of it are done
in the least harmful way to households. And there were
policy initiatives in the Three Waters of the previous government
that did that that this government took a and said
that they don't like and there was commitment to investment
(25:10):
that we're not seeing from this government.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I've got to take a break, but I've got to
put in there that this can be solved with time,
and I think when that's not part of the equation
at the moment, instead of talking ten years and ten grand,
we should be talking forty years, because if we do
fix it, it'll last for forty years, so we should
all pay for it equally. That's my humble opinion on
the store for flairfit Simon's and Nick Leggett. New Zealand
(25:34):
is seeing a massive surgeon drug imports at the border.
The first four months of twenty twenty five at Auckland
Airport the same amount of drugs were seized, and the
total from all airports the whole year. Cocaine in particular,
is rising. Customs Minister Casey Costello says we're not winning,
but I wouldn't say we're losing flairforit. Simon. If you've
(25:57):
got that much drugs coming into the country, you're losing.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
That's right, and she should take responsibility for it because
her government imposed cuts on the custom service and that
meant that we lost customs officers, for example at the
Port of Timaru, but also the custom service needs more investment,
not these cuts. They've also seen the police withdrawal from
mental health support. We know that when we talk to
mental health workers, what they are seeing huge meth problems.
(26:21):
They're presenting as mental illness, but actually it's drug addiction.
We also are not seeing investment in desperately needed drug
rehabilitation facilities. This government claims to be tough on crime,
but what we're seeing is a surge in drug use
and a surge in drugs coming across the border, and
they need to take responsibility. The role of government is
(26:42):
to make New Zealand better instead of just admiring problems
like Casey Costello is doing here.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Cocaine, Nick Leggott. When I grew up, cocaine was for
the very super rich and super famous people. Now it's
on the streets and we have got a problem, haven't we.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah, But what Flairs just outlined is kind of the
reaction to the problem. The problem does actually starts beyond
our borders. Obviously there's a demand in this country for drugs,
but I was looking, you know, when you read this.
More drugs were seized in the first four months of
last year than across airport all airports in the country
in twenty twenty four. We're actually doing a better job
(27:20):
of finding and stopping drugs coming in.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
So I don't how do you.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Tell you though, I mean, yeah, but look at the
point of origin there are more drugs.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
So but what I would say is isn't it better
to know about it and stop it than kind of not?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
So let's take a bit of a one.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
The question is we're obviously generating demand here as you know,
New Zealander is obviously using drugs, so that's what attracts
them into the country. What are the causes there? And
then how do we actually stop drugs from even coming
towards New Zealand in the first place? Where are the
international markets that they're being produced and generated? And I
(27:59):
mean the border is just one part of you know,
quite a wide puzzle.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
So I think it is a concern.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
It's it's certainly a concern because you know, we would
all know people, you know, in workforces that are impacted
by drug use and farno who are impacted by drug use,
and that has a massive impact on health and on
our economy, and so I I just wonder, I just
wonder where the wider health picture is here for New
(28:27):
Zealand and what are we doing, How are we working
with other nations to actually, you know, where these drugs
are coming from? And how we what are we doing
to intervene?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, another thing side sidetracked to that, because there's such
a big festival on this weekend and tonight.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Thanks for telling you.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'll keep you up with the plane if you want
to find out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Always association, what about.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Drug testing at festivals? What are you what are your
thoughts on that? Do you reckon? That's a good idea flip.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Absolutely, it's a fundamental element of drug of having these festivals.
Now you have to have drug testing. We have to
make sure that people are if they're going to take drugs,
that they are safe in it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
It's kind of contradicted in life. I mean, I agree
with you totally. I totally agree with you, But you
mean we're testing the drugs to see how how you know,
screwed up? It's going to make you. I mean, Nikki,
you are you think that we should have them or not?
Speaker 5 (29:18):
You're on balance? I do like I mean, I to.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Me, we are like I thought that we should have
decriminalized or legalized marijuana and and had a much more
vigilant roadside testing campaign, which is I think is you
know it's just so ly getting there. But you know,
fewer people, of course are drinking alcohol, and so.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know the reason they're not drinking alcohol because drugs
are so damned cheap.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
That's yeah, No, I do see the link here like
a calories issue, drugs laughing about dug drugs help you
burn them off, and yeah, alcohol adds add to calories.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I took a friend the other day, Nick, and he
was saying I gave him a left home and he
was saying he'd heard a bit on the radio about
me and talking about drugs. And he said, Nick, I
have never been to a party that people are taking
m d m A ever and seen anybody but cuddling
and kissing and having a good time. I said, does
that make it right? And he says makes it a
hell of a lot right, getting drunk and body to fight.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Actually, the calories point is a serious one. I do
hear more young people taking MDMA and other things because
they don't have the calories of wine and beer.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Yeah, which is and those alcopop drinks that young people
used to want to gravitate to.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Take a sure break, take a short break and come
and get hots. Come back and get hots and knots
from Nick Leggett and flur Fit Simon's I never I
mean it's a new one, but it's a good one.
Take drugs to lose calorie. I mean you know something
in that one for.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Me not recommended by either flur or my son, but it's.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Not a I'd rough far out that go for a
big run the frit than Remind me after I've asked
this question to tell you what we were talking about
in the break, Flurfitt Simon's give me your hots and knots.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Well, my hot is the great weekend we've got ahead
of us in Wellington. Here, we've got the Pulse game,
got Ultra. There's so much going on, So sorry, I
know there's other sport too. I'm a big netball fan
and town was pumping, so it's so exciting. I also
just want to give a shout out to a decision
made by the government to support care and support workers
with their petrol. There was a thirty percent increase to
(31:26):
the milage rate that they are paid now. They did
have their pay equity clim canceled by the government. But
I also do want to acknowledge this because it's important.
These are people who provide care in clients' homes. They
have to use their own vehicles, and there has been
a really important increase to that. Just in terms of
my not it's health. New Zealand having a go at
the New Zealand Nurses Organization nurses who were on strike
(31:47):
wearing stickers which express their support for safe staffing and hospitals,
saying that was a health and safety risk. It is
ridiculous and it's a complete overreaction. It's low level strike
action that should be encouraged, not this is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Haven't gone around and told the five trucks not to
have the big sidnes on the twice tracks sensibly not
Nick gleg it, give me your hots and knots. I
know it's a favorite segment of the show with you I.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Hots knots, but I do have a hot and flair
prompted me at school holidays and she also said that
could be a knot and maybe it could be as well.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But I was the one that said it was a
hot She was that said.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
It was and it was like, well, I'm going to
make it my hot and my not.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
But actually the hot part of it is I feel
a lot more present with my kids this week. I've
been away, you know, a couple of days, but like
last night, just having the space to put them in
the lounge, they could sleep there. They had a great
time and just being a little bit more present than normal.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
And that's great.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I mean, still painful, and you know, you have far
too much energy and all that, but it's good to
spend the time, as you pointed out, and that you
don't get the time back.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
No, And my hot is that you're taking them after
you finish the show, which.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
You Yes, the two of them are here with me.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
That's true, Yes, to go and see you. They're great Auntie.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I loved my great auntie Auntie Marge. You know I
loved her. So are they going to get to have
that experience. It's great, it's.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Hot, yeah, and it's there great great Auntie as well,
so it's even more significant.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And by the way, they reckon, I'm an extrovert and
I think I'm shy, come back and wrap the show
in a minute from the Shy Guy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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