March 5, 2026 • 30 mins
Nick Mills wraps the week with former Minister and political commentator Peter Dunne and political commentator and barrister Brigitte Morten.
The latest taxpayer union poll shows National at the lowest point since 2020 - 28%. After a failed coup last year, is this the right time for Bishop to take over as National leader? Our guests face off over what caused this and what will happen with the role of Prime Minister this election.
Then the Iran War. How close are we to calling it a World War and how has Luxon handled this as an international leader? Should we as a country take a stand and what should it be?
Dunne and Morten share their thoughts on the council's progress and what to expect from the release of the financial saving plans. Plus - should Moa Point impacted businesses receive compensation?
They also discuss what the future of libraries should look like - following Nick's tour of Te Matapihi, the new central library. And bootcamps - is this the best use of $4 million, and the best option for the kids. Then hots or nots, our panel share their highlight and lowlight for the week.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Wellington's official week interview, It's Friday Fatal with Kudov Property Management,
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dot In's.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Head on a Friday morning. That means it's face off time.
Bridget Morton, political commentator and director of Frank's Ogilby, Good
morning and welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How are you very good? Indeed, got a lot planned
for the weekend.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I do doing a trial run race down near Wannica
in the Motetapu.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So I'm going to run fifteen case tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh well, thank you for taking time out of your
business schedule to come and do a humble old Friday
face or. Peter Dunn, former minister and political commentator, Peter,
good morning, Good morning. You had a bit of a
chat to Nikola Willis on the way out the Chief.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
I ran onto the one hundred meters from here, stood
showing up the right and I was coming down.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You know where she would have been heading to. She
would have been hitting to prefab. I don't know whether
she's probably a bit too famous to go to prefab
now she'd probably get lots of people around it. Let's
talk about the latest pole result, Bridget don't look at
me like that. Now, the Taxpayers Union is set to
release a pole tip to show national that only a
(01:24):
couple of points above its disastrous twenty twenty election wipeout.
I mean, this is quite a tense time on election
year to have these sort of results. And Nikola said
if it was if it was election day, it would
be wouldn't be good enough?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, and she's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
If this was translated into seats, they wouldn't be able
to form a government. We're assuming because we don't know
where those points have gone on the center right, and
so that does change the makeup of the government quite a lot.
It's always interesting. I think there's two things just that
they sort of reflect on because poles are just a
point in time. But you've got to look at the trend.
But this has been part of it, a trend that's
(02:02):
sort of been bouncing around over the last six months.
In particular, you look worldwide, incumbent governments are really struggling,
particularly with approval ratings. You know, just look at Keir
Starmer in the UK. I think we had have had
a bit of a change around the world that you
can't assume you can get.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
If there was an election there he'll be gone too. Yeah,
I mean it doesn't change the fact that problem.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
What's sort of interesting, I think also is when you
get sometimes these disastrous polls, as it sends a bit
of a shockwave through I think people that expected to
be a center right government because they don't think we
can say that this is necessarily a pole result for
confidence in labor or a labor to PARTI Malti Green's poll.
So I think we are you know, there'll be a
group of voters in the middle of go well, actually, yes,
(02:44):
I'm not happy with certain things that are happening. I'm
not perhaps happy with lux And as Prime minister. But
the alternative has not really shown itself. So yeah, it's
a little bit soon to be saying this is what
the election result is going to be. But devastating obviously
for the center right.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And Peter Dunn. I mentioned that to Nicolais. She said,
always had a hard couple of weeks. This isn't this
isn't the last couple of weeks. I mean, this is
a trend that's almost since he started that people have
not bought into his style of leadership.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Well, there are two things I'd say. The first is
that National doesn't have any fat It's got a very
low vote share last time, historically thirty nine percent, Key Clark,
we're all around the forty seven forty eight percent mark
when they came into office, so National didn't have much
vote to shed. The fact that it may now be
at twenty eight and I take Bridget's point about this
(03:34):
is one pot you got to be very very careful
about reading too much into it. But National can't afford
to lose anything now. I think the second issue is,
so what do they do about it. Let's assume that
there is a feeling of angst in the caucus. Let's
assume that people want to make change. History is not
on their side. The last Prime minister to take office
(03:54):
during a parliamentary term and win an election with Peter Fraser.
Since then, we've had six or seven prime ministers who've
taken over either through death, retirement, or coup, and they've
all lost the next election. So if the objective and
politics is to win the next election, and I think
it's the fundamental objective of most politicians, because if you
don't they can't do stuff, then they've got a way up. Well,
is this moving on the Prime Minister at this stage?
(04:17):
Is this going to aid or diminish our chances? History
would suggest the latter, having said that, if you're at
twenty eight percent and that's sustained, and bear in mind
the Morgan pole this week had them down to thirty one,
so the trend is downwards, how long do you carry on?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's the question I'm going to ask you, because you've
been there.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Well, I've been in it.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I've been in that environment.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I've been in governments too, where you see the tide
not just going out, but sort of just going out
on a rush, and what do you do about it?
And that there almost becomes a sort of a bunker mindset.
We'll stay here, we'll hang together, and we'll fight this one,
even though all the external evidence is to the contrary.
So there's that aspect versus the people who say we've
(05:00):
got to make a change. We've got to make any change,
we'll do the panic artist. So somewhere in the middle
is the balance. Now expect the answer will become a
little clearer that there are a few more polls due
this month.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
If they don't think they're going to change that, they confirm.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That trend, that changes thing. But to act on the
basis of one pole.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think it's more than one pole.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Well yeah, but I've been I keep a rolling average
of all the polls and that here's the fact. I
haven't obviously taken these figures into account because we don't
know them. But until this morning, only on two occasions
since the last election, March and September of last year,
has the Opposition block been in a position to form
a government. Now, the numbers are bounced around on the
(05:42):
within the coalition, but the long term trend is very
much in their favor. The question I've got in my
mind is, given the Royal Morgan pole, given this potential poll,
are we at a tipping point? And if we are,
you have to go, well, go back to what happened
three years ago when Hipkins took over. There was a
(06:04):
big blip upwards and labor support by about April of
twenty twenty three that had evaporated. The lines had crossed
and it was all downhill through to the election. Are
we in the same phase now? And as I said before,
what do you do about it?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Bridget Morton, If you're giving the that's some advice, what
would you be saying right now?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Well, I think everyone has recognized and I think the
Prime Minister would recognize himself that his unfavorability is a
big issue.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We have always looked to.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
The Prime minister as I suppose the brand of a government,
and I think you know, you saw comments from David
Semore this morning talking about actually, you know, Luxon has
achieved a lot, He's got his minister's achieving a lot.
He's actually kept a quite difficult coalition actually running pretty smoothly.
So I think there's a lot of good things, but
(06:53):
the problem is that their public can't see them, and
so they've got as sort of Peter talks about, there
is that like bunker mentality. What actually, if we stay unified,
we stay on message, we're going to look like a
more comprehend of like competent government going into the election
because the opposition block it's actually not a block either.
(07:14):
So we kind of talk about this in isolation as
if they're going to make decisions purely on one pole
and what their particular is that that, But ultimately you've
actually got to look at the big picture and strategically,
is it better to actually look like a competent government
that holds together and actually highlight the problems with the
supposed opposition block, which has to Party Moldy in it,
which is a very they can't even keep the party together.
(07:35):
At the moment, there.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Was a great National Party advertisement I think the twenty
fourteen of election of the rowing race, and it's the
same image where there was the National Party boat was
sailing smoothly along the opposition rowing skiff. They were arguing
about what yours were going where and who was going
to take the lead and whatever and going nowhere. I
(07:58):
think that's exactly the situation. Potentially. The government's not in
a good space. It's got some real problems. But then
look across the other side of the house and decide's
low do you really want the other side taking of it?
And I think that a lot of people will be
trying to figure that one out.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Bridget I've got to go to a break, But I
really quickly want to ask you if that can change,
because I kind of got a feeling and I could
be completely wrong here, but I personally didn't like John
Key when he first came in, I thought he was
a self made millionaire and I didn't feel right he
was a right prime minister. Suddenly we fell in love
with him. Can it change?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
It's really difficult, I think, particularly this far into his leadership,
to change some of that personal branding. People have their
fixed ideas. I mean, for me personally, having had the
benefit of seeing him work a bit more up close
and meet him, his intentions are absolutely in the right place.
Is his communication style not one that works well, particularly
when you come off the back of someone like Disinda
(08:50):
durn It is difficult, but ultimately I do think he
has pointed the government in the right direction and that
is actually what is key.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
When we come back. I just want to really quickly
before we move on, because I think it's really important
that we talk about it. I'll give you the break
to think about it. If not him, then who Okay,
let's play a little Friday face off game. Okay, if
not him, Christopher Luxon leading national to the election, who
(09:19):
would you pack Peter Dunn? And why?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Well? As I said before, I think anyone who takes
over in these circumstances has got history against him in
terms of succeeding, So you think, well, do you want
to take a punt? Do you want to think, well,
even if I'm Prime minister for six months, that's better
than not being prime minister at all. And what happens next.
I think, on balance at the moment, probably Chris Bishop,
but he's a young man, sill and he might not
(09:43):
fancy being back in opposition at a comparatively young age
because the other thing about New Zealand politics is and
Chris Hipkins may be about to disprove this, but defeated
prime ministers seldom come back, so it's quite a balance.
But I don't really think there's another contender at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Why do you think that? And I'm getting this from
the insider and I got up six months ago from
the inside, is that that's the way they want because
they want the real key we bloke.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Well, here's a bit of that. And he thankfully he's
not like the Fred dag of the Labor Party Karen macinnaulty,
but he's got a bit more polished to him. He's sensible,
he's done a good job. I think from the outside,
I mean I know Chross, I know his family, but
from the outside I think he's a bit tarnished by
the events of last year, the abortive sort of semi
(10:33):
maybe possible coup, and also there were events three or
four years ago around I think moves it he and
Willis made on the leadership seen as ambitious, may be
a bit too ambitious, But on the other hand, maybe
what they needed to say someone who can communicate clearly
and simpodly sell a message.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
He hasn't sold us a message on Mount Victoria Tunnel.
That's as bad as cloudy as halfway through it. Bridget Morton,
Who and why?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yeah, I think there's always momentum behind someone, and so
everyone has hooked onto Chris Bishop as the sort of
lead candidate. But Peter is absolutely right that actually when
you're looking about who is going to win an election,
you need to look about who that team is. And
they want to make somewhat I think of a cleaner break,
and so I would expect Chris Bishop to be, you know,
(11:17):
if there was a change, to be part of the
leadership team.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But you might see someone.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Like Stanford who has you know, had a very good
public brand, has really spoken, you know, cut through kind
of all the noise and education and you've been able
to speak directly to pearents.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That is a direct.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Contrast, I think to the communication style that Luxon has
struggled with. So I think you can see the caucus
kind of making those sort of you know, you know,
assumptions or kind of thinking that through as well.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
The world has another question though. I agree with you
about Stanford because I think you look at Stanford, Bishop
Willis Brown, perhaps there's quite a sort of team there,
whether they can rejig this in such a way.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And work together.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Yeah, and that lux is not so much pushed aside,
but he's not the front person for the government to
the extent that he has been. Yeah, and I think you're.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Starting to see some of that.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I think you know, you saw the key we save
a Farmer's policy on Sunday. Was it a Nicola Willis
announcement That was very much a personal kind of announcement
in her on the farm, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
So I think you're going to see more and more
of that.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
You see Bishop rolled out a lot, which is why
I think he's you know, been kind of put there
as a front contender.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I mean, segueing slightly, I mean the whole Iran situation
the conflict is getting worse and worse lux and refuses
to say anything on the legality of it. Is that
an issue? And you know, the war itself? Do we
call it a war?
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Yet?
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We were having this debate with some friends last night,
what is the definite of World War three? It does feel,
you know that we've I didn't go that far, but
there is you know, what is the definite? And I
think that that does you know, when you talk about
you know, lux and refusing to say about the legality
of this, it's because the rules of law have actually
changed quite considerably and how we actually react to threats.
(12:59):
It used to be because there was troops literally on
your border, you know that that was an imminent threat
and that was enough to sort of trigger then the
rules of law that some of the the rules are
and I don't want to sound like a Trump fan here,
but they are not really suited to modern sort of warfare.
So I think that's a bit of a red hearing
about that sort of issue. I think what the issue
(13:21):
was last week is the fact that we needed a
really clear statement and needed it really fast on exactly
what our position was, and frankly, sitting on the fence
is a fine position to have, but that wasn't actually.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What was articulated.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It got mixed up with you know, whether or not
we were all in, or whether we were sort of
on the fence or we're all against.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Would you have wanted to see a better performance than
you saw, because I think this is the trigger of
this pole myself.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, it'd be interesting to know when this pole was
in the field. It most likely was at least part
over the weekend. I think absolutely when we've tradition actually
seen leux In bvery good on the international stage. I mean,
the things he's done in trade and the way he's
performed in the international stage is something we can be.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Really proud of.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
So I think for there's an expectation that on these
issues that he will do well. And I think this
was a little bit too fast and a little bit
too loose.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Peter done your thoughts when you saw it well.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I don't think his handling has been particularly spectacular. I
think the position of the government's been a little bit ambiguous.
I think what people look for in these situations is
a sense of direction uncertainty, and from my perspective, a
better position would have been to do what we did
over Iraq in two thousand and three. You know, we
will support action that's mandated by the UN, whether you
(14:38):
agree with it or not. That gives us a sort
of a starting point for a position. We don't have
to debate legality and everything else. Having said that, as
to the wider question, are we in World War three?
When you've got ships being sunk off the Sri Lankan coast,
when you've got attacks in Azerbaijan, when you've got Beirut
being threatened, I think we're pretty close to it in
(14:59):
really terms. I think we are.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It feels like they're all separated though to me.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
From the nature of warfare, it's not troops on the
ground over but it's not one group against another group
one you know, it's thrones and it's all sorts of
sophisticated equipment. So I think if you allow that sort
of a definition, this is pretty close to a global conflict.
It's not like World War Two, it's not like any
of the others. But this is global conflict twenty twenty
(15:25):
six style. Now, if that's the case, then at some
point countries like New Zealand do have to take a stand,
And I think the problem at the moment, it is
difficult to ascertain what our stand is.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Have you felt, Bridget and this is a shower moment
for me late late earlier this week. You know, you
think of something, you go, hell, is this the closest
we have been in your lifetime. You're a lot younger
than meet Peter, and I that you feel that we
are close to World War three?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, I think absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And I think that the difference for me this time is,
you know, previously, if you take sort of Ukraine, you
know it was very much sort of this.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Is what's happening on the other side of the world.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
But when you see I think bombs coming down or
drones being shot down over places that in the Soun's
quite appreciate. Well, yeah, we've been to all my friends
are on holiday. I've got some friends stuck in to
buy You know, when you kind of have that element
of it, it does feel like it's really affecting them personally.
And I think that's where you start to actually have
that buy it. And I think the unexpected and sort
(16:27):
of scatter gun kind of nature of the attacks and
the action that's been taken over the last ten days
does make you a much more on edge about well,
what was the rhyme or reason?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Where can you come into that?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And you know Trump's unpredictability before it was this joke
of this orange man you know, who said ridiculous things
on the TV. But it's very clear that he's in
charge of hitting that big red button and he's pretty
happy to do it.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Said this morning, he wants to select the next Geranium leader.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Peter. In your lifetime, has there been a time where
you felt when you've actually sat back and had your
cup of tea and thought, gosh, this is pretty close
to World War Three? No.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
I think the only other time I can remember, and
I was very very young at the time is the
Cuban missile crisis, and that was more because we didn't
have the information. This looked like this is the great
showdown between the Russians and the Americans, and the heroic
President Kennedy saved the day. But you know that was
sort of out there a long way away, and it
was what could happen. This has actually happened, and the
(17:29):
question is how it's curtailed. Frankly, because it seems to
be expanding its scope.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Do you think it will get involved, you see, I'll
get involved. I'll got to ask Peter this because if
you worked in that environment, do you think we'll get
involved in any way?
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well, it's difficult to see what we could do. To
be honest, we've got three hercules in the air Force.
I doubt that we'll get involved in it if we
chose to in an offensive capacity. I think it's far
more likely that we could get involved post whatever the
events are in some of the cleaner construction, peacekeeping, those
(18:02):
sorts of things, which we're actually quite good at. But
we're not frankly a big enough to be significant in this.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Just very quickly before I go to the news, I
just want to get you both your thoughts on today.
Apparently the Waken City Council is going to bring out
some recommendations on how to save money and keep our
rates down. I mean, Bridget, are you expecting to hear
anything that's going to have any significance whatsoever? Or is
this the start of the Andrew Little leadership.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
I think we will see some significant things in the
recommendations today, mostly because a Andrew Little has the mandate
to do it, but also because he's got the counselors
around the table to actually get some votes through. It
does feel I think for most Valentinians that the grown
nuts are back in charge of the council and so
we are going to see some I think, tough decisions.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I think you've seen that unity.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
You're not seeing the councilors speaking out against each other
and all that kind of stuff happening, so they've got
the ability to actually make these tough decisions.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Peter your thoughts, I.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Don't think we're going to get decisions per se. We're
going to get recommendations in a sense of direction. And
I think the challenge from here for the mayor, who
I think is done pretty well so far, is he's
now going to be seen to drive this through. If
it's derailed or weakened or softened, we're risk caring right
back to the playground we've just come out of. And
(19:16):
I think what Wellingtonians will be looking at was will
be the basic question, what's it mean for my rates?
It is the council doing the basics properly and have
all the pet projects been tossed out the window. If
they can sell that message of restraint, common sense and
an affordable rating structure, then there's progress.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Surely we can sit back and have a cup of
tea after we've done takena the old town hall and
the library. Gosh, we can't, We've got can't have any
more major project.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
No, we do major projects. It's that infrastructure we can't see.
We can't have any more major vanity projects. Yes, yes,
I think I think we very deliberately need a project
that addresses the pool and the sea.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yes, and keeping it out mower Point, mower Point Andrew
l Mayor Andrew Little has said that business is announced
on this show that they went the Council was looking
at giving them absolutely no compensation. Peter had done your
thoughts on that. We have already this morning's paper you
would have seen an article about a legendary surf shop,
(20:16):
you know, thinking about closing things are pretty tough around that.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
It is tough, and I feel for those businesses that
have been adversely affected. But I think for a couple
of reasons. Firstly, its own parless financial situation, and secondly,
the sort of issue of is it a good idea?
And I don't think it's appropriate for the council to
compensate them in this instance.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, and we've all been in that situation before, as
businesses in Wellington where pipes are being dug out in
the front. We think of Thorned and what they did
to Thorn, and I know that they gave them a
piecemeal fifteen hundred bucks wouldn't even buy them lunch. You know, realistically,
bridget more than your thoughts when you heard that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I think, yeah, you feel for those businesses, but yeah,
the president that it would set would be quite difficult.
I mean, you know, you think about a cafe that's
in the bottom of a government agency building when we're
from home became so common.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Did they get compensation with government?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
They were broken closed, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
So lots of government decisions, local or central have an
impact on businesses and I think you can't get into
that situation where you are compensating because you just never
kind of get to the end of it. Unfortunately. And
I say this as someone you know who's a small
business owner myself. You've got to sometimes ride with that
toughness and try and prepare for the best you can.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And to be fair from someone that has had a
business in Lyle Bay for twelve years, you get good
summers and bad summers, and that can determine how much
you make and lose anyway.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
And that's the issue. It becomes where you draw the line.
And the other thing I'd say is that we did
sort of try to do a bit of this post
COVID and it wasn't a spectacular success. The money was
not directed to where it should have gone, and as
a consequence of the country's balloon.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Very good point there, Peter, I knew that that was.
You know, that was a very good point. I never
thought about that. Now Wellington's Library opens next week, March
the fourteenth, That next week or the week after it opens. Now,
I had the privilege of going through the library. Bridget Morton,
your youth will tell you that international libraries are more
(22:11):
than books. Now, this library, I don't know whether you've
had the opportunity to research or have a look at it,
or it's got everything from our documentation on our plans
and files for our housing. It's got you know, a
production room you can actually make a whole movie in
their type thing. It's got a green wall, it's got
a recording studio, it's got three D printers. I mean,
(22:33):
it's Hollywood comes to a library.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Look, I'm a massive nerd and love reading books, So
a big giant library does make me excited. It's not
a project when they decide to the rebuild that I
actually supported from a fiscal point of view, I actually
didn't think that it was right for ratepayers, but we
have invested in therefore it should be the best possible
use for our community. I do think we are losing
a little bit of functionality by losing those pop ups
(22:58):
that we had. I think that just got our community.
It's you know, the library's out into the communities a
little bit more so I hope they kind of continue
that kind of practice. But yeah, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Are you excited about all the add ons? Because it
is it's like going to you know, for a young
well in Tony, it'll be like a mini trip to
Disney has so much there.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
No, I think that's abouly fantastic And frankly, if you
can get more young people through the door engaging with
you know, research and the ability to make things in
their creativity, like, that's absolutely fantastic and you know, hopefully
then they go and read some books too.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Peter Dunn, No, I agree, and I've been quite impressed
with the new Johnsonville Library. I've been going there with
my grandkids. We love that whole sort of interactive environment cafe.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It's pretty good too.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
So I think that the new Well Income Library, which
I haven't seen yet, will be in that vein. And
I'm just reminded of my good friend Gary Moore, the
former christ Church mayor, who said when he became mayor,
he embarked on a policy of not just upgrading, but
strengthening libraries because they were the primary community resource, because
they've got the information, the access to data, make sure
(24:05):
the network not just central library, but the network's well resourced,
and in time of emergency, this was before the earthquake,
they become the place that people actually can go through
to get the information they need. And I think it's
a pretty good point in that.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Great point in that try to face off Bridget Morton
Peter Dunbridget. Government's starting round two of the boot camps,
four million dollars for ten people. Last one that they ran,
the pilot success rate of forty percent. One of them
died tragically, so thirty percent success rate. When do we
(24:39):
start saying we've sort of got crime under control? Do
we need boot camps.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I don't think we can say that we're curme in
control for a long time. And I think what you've
actually got to look at is that the boot camps
are about the pipeline. You know, we can identify and
intervene in earlier stages, so we know some factors around
you to support around family infano, we know that and
education levels, we need a health intervention services. But we
(25:03):
know that the kids that are unfortunately in those boot
camps are ones with the toughest challenges. And therefore, I
think for people expecting that they were going to get
you know, miracles with one hundred percent or eighty percent,
we have to be realistic.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Can you expect a little bit better than than six
reoffended while they were still in the camp and the
process one died. Don't you think we expected a little bit?
Speaker 4 (25:23):
I think we need to be a little bit nuanced.
And I don't know this, but it's not just about
whether or not they're offended. What is there actually what
is changing in their lives? And I hope they've learned
some lessons from that first round as well. But I
do think we have to be realistic that we do
need intervention services and wrap around intervention services. There's been
a fashion to kind of move based back to you know,
community based, you know, sentences and services delivered.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know in the home or on the community.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
But for some people, and this goes across the board,
whether it be health education or in our correctional space,
there are some people that we just actually are best
to isolate and wrap around entirely.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Peter Dunne four million dollars.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
It's a cost in a half, very small numbers of
people involved, probably about twenty year over the two trials,
So there's some risks I think in trying to draw
too many conclusions from it. I think the bigger question
is we have access now through things like the multidisciplinary
study in Dunedin and other studies of that nature, to
(26:20):
a lot of the data which enables us, if we're
of a mind to to identify early at risk families
acorous children and then to develop the appropriate services to
deal with them prevent those problems escalating. The problem is,
though we're not doing enough of that, because we get
a bit too tied up about if we do that,
we're going to be pointing the finger at this at
(26:42):
risk person or this at risk family or not. And
so we keep these broad rush community approaches which will
never work frankly because of their scope. So if we're
serious about reducing inequality with reducing crime, reducing disadvantage and dysfunctionality,
will make much better use of the data and much
more effectively target our responses than we are.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Pretty sensible idea time for a break and come back
with hot so nuts the Friday fat and not Bridget Morton,
I know what your hot's going to be, so but
you tell us.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Really, I don't know if you do. Okay, Mine is
that I look for any green shirts. So their economy
is turning around and seeing that some results out this
week that retail.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Spending in the last month was, you know, one of
the highest it's been in the last two years.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
But the point that really that stood out to me
was the fact that the biggest spender is Valentine's Day
and Southland and Palmston all So that tends up where
you need to go for your romance.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
That's where it's hot, I know, I know, so.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Yeah, that's definitely my heart this time, my not it's
also in the regions. Todding, the City Council suppose you've
got thirty four complaints last year about Beepoo by people
complaining about the poor bees having to you know, go,
you know, it goes through their natural cycle. And I
just think people need to be a bit more realistic
that we live in the world and that nature is
(28:06):
happening around us, and the bees are a pretty important
part of our ecosystem, and I think they need to
find something better to complain about.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I thought your hot was going to be your big hot,
race tomorrow, run tomorrow, not race run tomorrow. But that's
pretty hot, Peter done. Your hots are not well, my hot.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I'm just about to sneeze.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I think probably my hot is.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
I'm becoming more and more impressed with the performance of
our mayor. I think he's done a particularly good job
so far. I think he's got the council, if not
on an even keel, then certainly in the direction we're
an even keel as possible. He's got the crazies under
control and silenced, and that's good. He's got the challenges
I said earlier of maintaining that, but I've been very
impressed and I just want to encourage him to keep
(28:50):
on doing what he's doing because I think it's long term.
Wellington needs a steady hand at the tiller, and that's
what it's gone. My not is I was appalled and
horrified to learn last week or the week before, of
plans by n ZTA to consult on a whole changes
to traffic laws, including giving buses right of way to
(29:11):
leave bus stops. I drive around town quite a lot,
and I think it's dangerous now the way buses just
suddenly pull out from stops without taking much regard of
what's behind them, if they are legally sanctioned that that's
okay to do so, I think it's a real risk
to public safety. I think that the danger is I'll
pull out on top of oncoming traffic pedestrians because they've
(29:33):
got right.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Away, don't you I'm just asking you both, and you
can just quickly tell me. I always give as soon
as the indicators on the bus. I always give them
right away, do you.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Don't you know?
Speaker 5 (29:43):
I think that they should be subject to the same
rules that I'm subject to.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
This is one of these clasic rule changes that actually
thought the rule was that you gave way TODs when
I saw it coming as well as like, oh I
thought they already existed.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, I just think it's a need to It sounds
a good idea in terms of facilitating the movement, but
I just think given that a lot of people do
it anyway, bus drivers do it anyway, and it causes
I think a measure of strife for pedestrians and motorists
to sort of. So it's okay to do it all
the time, it is a huge risk.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I'm one of those people that give way to everybody,
and I get really pissed off when they don't wave.
Really I can that's road rays, you know what I mean.
You give way, you pull over, leadpaperman past the straight
driving straight past you like they don't give it any
I said, look, I'm going up the hill. You're supposed
to give way to me. I'm still giving away to
your wave, you know, and take much energy, does it?
(30:29):
Peter had done Bridget Morton, thank you for taking time
out to come on the show. Great to see you both.
Bridge all the very best for your run. I think
it's amazing You've got a fan and meet so well done.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks it'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Wellington's official week interview, It's Friday Fatal with Kudov Property Management,
a better rental experience for all visit Kdovic dot co
dot In's.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Head on a Friday morning. That means it's face off time.
Bridget Morton, political commentator and director of Frank's Ogilby, Good
morning and welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
How are you very good? Indeed, got a lot planned
for the weekend.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I do doing a trial run race down near Wannica
in the Motetapu.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So I'm going to run fifteen case tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh well, thank you for taking time out of your
business schedule to come and do a humble old Friday
face or. Peter Dunn, former minister and political commentator, Peter,
good morning, Good morning. You had a bit of a
chat to Nikola Willis on the way out the Chief.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
I ran onto the one hundred meters from here, stood
showing up the right and I was coming down.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You know where she would have been heading to. She
would have been hitting to prefab. I don't know whether
she's probably a bit too famous to go to prefab
now she'd probably get lots of people around it. Let's
talk about the latest pole result, Bridget don't look at
me like that. Now, the Taxpayers Union is set to
release a pole tip to show national that only a
(01:24):
couple of points above its disastrous twenty twenty election wipeout.
I mean, this is quite a tense time on election
year to have these sort of results. And Nikola said
if it was if it was election day, it would
be wouldn't be good enough?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, and she's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
If this was translated into seats, they wouldn't be able
to form a government. We're assuming because we don't know
where those points have gone on the center right, and
so that does change the makeup of the government quite a lot.
It's always interesting. I think there's two things just that
they sort of reflect on because poles are just a
point in time. But you've got to look at the trend.
But this has been part of it, a trend that's
(02:02):
sort of been bouncing around over the last six months.
In particular, you look worldwide, incumbent governments are really struggling,
particularly with approval ratings. You know, just look at Keir
Starmer in the UK. I think we had have had
a bit of a change around the world that you
can't assume you can get.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
If there was an election there he'll be gone too. Yeah,
I mean it doesn't change the fact that problem.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
What's sort of interesting, I think also is when you
get sometimes these disastrous polls, as it sends a bit
of a shockwave through I think people that expected to
be a center right government because they don't think we
can say that this is necessarily a pole result for
confidence in labor or a labor to PARTI Malti Green's poll.
So I think we are you know, there'll be a
group of voters in the middle of go well, actually, yes,
(02:44):
I'm not happy with certain things that are happening. I'm
not perhaps happy with lux And as Prime minister. But
the alternative has not really shown itself. So yeah, it's
a little bit soon to be saying this is what
the election result is going to be. But devastating obviously
for the center right.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And Peter Dunn. I mentioned that to Nicolais. She said,
always had a hard couple of weeks. This isn't this
isn't the last couple of weeks. I mean, this is
a trend that's almost since he started that people have
not bought into his style of leadership.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Well, there are two things I'd say. The first is
that National doesn't have any fat It's got a very
low vote share last time, historically thirty nine percent, Key Clark,
we're all around the forty seven forty eight percent mark
when they came into office, so National didn't have much
vote to shed. The fact that it may now be
at twenty eight and I take Bridget's point about this
(03:34):
is one pot you got to be very very careful
about reading too much into it. But National can't afford
to lose anything now. I think the second issue is,
so what do they do about it. Let's assume that
there is a feeling of angst in the caucus. Let's
assume that people want to make change. History is not
on their side. The last Prime minister to take office
(03:54):
during a parliamentary term and win an election with Peter Fraser.
Since then, we've had six or seven prime ministers who've
taken over either through death, retirement, or coup, and they've
all lost the next election. So if the objective and
politics is to win the next election, and I think
it's the fundamental objective of most politicians, because if you
don't they can't do stuff, then they've got a way up. Well,
is this moving on the Prime Minister at this stage?
(04:17):
Is this going to aid or diminish our chances? History
would suggest the latter, having said that, if you're at
twenty eight percent and that's sustained, and bear in mind
the Morgan pole this week had them down to thirty one,
so the trend is downwards, how long do you carry on?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's the question I'm going to ask you, because you've
been there.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Well, I've been in it.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I've been in that environment.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I've been in governments too, where you see the tide
not just going out, but sort of just going out
on a rush, and what do you do about it?
And that there almost becomes a sort of a bunker mindset.
We'll stay here, we'll hang together, and we'll fight this one,
even though all the external evidence is to the contrary.
So there's that aspect versus the people who say we've
(05:00):
got to make a change. We've got to make any change,
we'll do the panic artist. So somewhere in the middle
is the balance. Now expect the answer will become a
little clearer that there are a few more polls due
this month.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
If they don't think they're going to change that, they confirm.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
That trend, that changes thing. But to act on the
basis of one pole.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think it's more than one pole.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Well yeah, but I've been I keep a rolling average
of all the polls and that here's the fact. I
haven't obviously taken these figures into account because we don't
know them. But until this morning, only on two occasions
since the last election, March and September of last year,
has the Opposition block been in a position to form
a government. Now, the numbers are bounced around on the
(05:42):
within the coalition, but the long term trend is very
much in their favor. The question I've got in my
mind is, given the Royal Morgan pole, given this potential poll,
are we at a tipping point? And if we are,
you have to go, well, go back to what happened
three years ago when Hipkins took over. There was a
(06:04):
big blip upwards and labor support by about April of
twenty twenty three that had evaporated. The lines had crossed
and it was all downhill through to the election. Are
we in the same phase now? And as I said before,
what do you do about it?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Bridget Morton, If you're giving the that's some advice, what
would you be saying right now?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Well, I think everyone has recognized and I think the
Prime Minister would recognize himself that his unfavorability is a
big issue.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We have always looked to.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
The Prime minister as I suppose the brand of a government,
and I think you know, you saw comments from David
Semore this morning talking about actually, you know, Luxon has
achieved a lot, He's got his minister's achieving a lot.
He's actually kept a quite difficult coalition actually running pretty smoothly.
So I think there's a lot of good things, but
(06:53):
the problem is that their public can't see them, and
so they've got as sort of Peter talks about, there
is that like bunker mentality. What actually, if we stay unified,
we stay on message, we're going to look like a
more comprehend of like competent government going into the election
because the opposition block it's actually not a block either.
(07:14):
So we kind of talk about this in isolation as
if they're going to make decisions purely on one pole
and what their particular is that that, But ultimately you've
actually got to look at the big picture and strategically,
is it better to actually look like a competent government
that holds together and actually highlight the problems with the
supposed opposition block, which has to Party Moldy in it,
which is a very they can't even keep the party together.
(07:35):
At the moment, there.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Was a great National Party advertisement I think the twenty
fourteen of election of the rowing race, and it's the
same image where there was the National Party boat was
sailing smoothly along the opposition rowing skiff. They were arguing
about what yours were going where and who was going
to take the lead and whatever and going nowhere. I
(07:58):
think that's exactly the situation. Potentially. The government's not in
a good space. It's got some real problems. But then
look across the other side of the house and decide's
low do you really want the other side taking of it?
And I think that a lot of people will be
trying to figure that one out.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Bridget I've got to go to a break, But I
really quickly want to ask you if that can change,
because I kind of got a feeling and I could
be completely wrong here, but I personally didn't like John
Key when he first came in, I thought he was
a self made millionaire and I didn't feel right he
was a right prime minister. Suddenly we fell in love
with him. Can it change?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
It's really difficult, I think, particularly this far into his leadership,
to change some of that personal branding. People have their
fixed ideas. I mean, for me personally, having had the
benefit of seeing him work a bit more up close
and meet him, his intentions are absolutely in the right place.
Is his communication style not one that works well, particularly
when you come off the back of someone like Disinda
(08:50):
durn It is difficult, but ultimately I do think he
has pointed the government in the right direction and that
is actually what is key.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
When we come back. I just want to really quickly
before we move on, because I think it's really important
that we talk about it. I'll give you the break
to think about it. If not him, then who Okay,
let's play a little Friday face off game. Okay, if
not him, Christopher Luxon leading national to the election, who
(09:19):
would you pack Peter Dunn? And why?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Well? As I said before, I think anyone who takes
over in these circumstances has got history against him in
terms of succeeding, So you think, well, do you want
to take a punt? Do you want to think, well,
even if I'm Prime minister for six months, that's better
than not being prime minister at all. And what happens next.
I think, on balance at the moment, probably Chris Bishop,
but he's a young man, sill and he might not
(09:43):
fancy being back in opposition at a comparatively young age
because the other thing about New Zealand politics is and
Chris Hipkins may be about to disprove this, but defeated
prime ministers seldom come back, so it's quite a balance.
But I don't really think there's another contender at this point.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Why do you think that? And I'm getting this from
the insider and I got up six months ago from
the inside, is that that's the way they want because
they want the real key we bloke.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Well, here's a bit of that. And he thankfully he's
not like the Fred dag of the Labor Party Karen macinnaulty,
but he's got a bit more polished to him. He's sensible,
he's done a good job. I think from the outside,
I mean I know Chross, I know his family, but
from the outside I think he's a bit tarnished by
the events of last year, the abortive sort of semi
(10:33):
maybe possible coup, and also there were events three or
four years ago around I think moves it he and
Willis made on the leadership seen as ambitious, may be
a bit too ambitious, But on the other hand, maybe
what they needed to say someone who can communicate clearly
and simpodly sell a message.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
He hasn't sold us a message on Mount Victoria Tunnel.
That's as bad as cloudy as halfway through it. Bridget Morton,
Who and why?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yeah, I think there's always momentum behind someone, and so
everyone has hooked onto Chris Bishop as the sort of
lead candidate. But Peter is absolutely right that actually when
you're looking about who is going to win an election,
you need to look about who that team is. And
they want to make somewhat I think of a cleaner break,
and so I would expect Chris Bishop to be, you know,
(11:17):
if there was a change, to be part of the
leadership team.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
But you might see someone.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Like Stanford who has you know, had a very good
public brand, has really spoken, you know, cut through kind
of all the noise and education and you've been able
to speak directly to pearents.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
That is a direct.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Contrast, I think to the communication style that Luxon has
struggled with. So I think you can see the caucus
kind of making those sort of you know, you know,
assumptions or kind of thinking that through as well.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
The world has another question though. I agree with you
about Stanford because I think you look at Stanford, Bishop
Willis Brown, perhaps there's quite a sort of team there,
whether they can rejig this in such a way.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And work together.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Yeah, and that lux is not so much pushed aside,
but he's not the front person for the government to
the extent that he has been. Yeah, and I think you're.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Starting to see some of that.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I think you know, you saw the key we save
a Farmer's policy on Sunday. Was it a Nicola Willis
announcement That was very much a personal kind of announcement
in her on the farm, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
So I think you're going to see more and more
of that.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
You see Bishop rolled out a lot, which is why
I think he's you know, been kind of put there
as a front contender.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I mean, segueing slightly, I mean the whole Iran situation
the conflict is getting worse and worse lux and refuses
to say anything on the legality of it. Is that
an issue? And you know, the war itself? Do we
call it a war?
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Yet?
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We were having this debate with some friends last night,
what is the definite of World War three? It does feel,
you know that we've I didn't go that far, but
there is you know, what is the definite? And I
think that that does you know, when you talk about
you know, lux and refusing to say about the legality
of this, it's because the rules of law have actually
changed quite considerably and how we actually react to threats.
(12:59):
It used to be because there was troops literally on
your border, you know that that was an imminent threat
and that was enough to sort of trigger then the
rules of law that some of the the rules are
and I don't want to sound like a Trump fan here,
but they are not really suited to modern sort of warfare.
So I think that's a bit of a red hearing
about that sort of issue. I think what the issue
(13:21):
was last week is the fact that we needed a
really clear statement and needed it really fast on exactly
what our position was, and frankly, sitting on the fence
is a fine position to have, but that wasn't actually.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What was articulated.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It got mixed up with you know, whether or not
we were all in, or whether we were sort of
on the fence or we're all against.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Would you have wanted to see a better performance than
you saw, because I think this is the trigger of
this pole myself.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, it'd be interesting to know when this pole was
in the field. It most likely was at least part
over the weekend. I think absolutely when we've tradition actually
seen leux In bvery good on the international stage. I mean,
the things he's done in trade and the way he's
performed in the international stage is something we can be.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Really proud of.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
So I think for there's an expectation that on these
issues that he will do well. And I think this
was a little bit too fast and a little bit
too loose.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Peter done your thoughts when you saw it well.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I don't think his handling has been particularly spectacular. I
think the position of the government's been a little bit ambiguous.
I think what people look for in these situations is
a sense of direction uncertainty, and from my perspective, a
better position would have been to do what we did
over Iraq in two thousand and three. You know, we
will support action that's mandated by the UN, whether you
(14:38):
agree with it or not. That gives us a sort
of a starting point for a position. We don't have
to debate legality and everything else. Having said that, as
to the wider question, are we in World War three?
When you've got ships being sunk off the Sri Lankan coast,
when you've got attacks in Azerbaijan, when you've got Beirut
being threatened, I think we're pretty close to it in
(14:59):
really terms. I think we are.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It feels like they're all separated though to me.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
From the nature of warfare, it's not troops on the
ground over but it's not one group against another group
one you know, it's thrones and it's all sorts of
sophisticated equipment. So I think if you allow that sort
of a definition, this is pretty close to a global conflict.
It's not like World War Two, it's not like any
of the others. But this is global conflict twenty twenty
(15:25):
six style. Now, if that's the case, then at some
point countries like New Zealand do have to take a stand,
And I think the problem at the moment, it is
difficult to ascertain what our stand is.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Have you felt, Bridget and this is a shower moment
for me late late earlier this week. You know, you
think of something, you go, hell, is this the closest
we have been in your lifetime. You're a lot younger
than meet Peter, and I that you feel that we
are close to World War three?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, I think absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And I think that the difference for me this time is,
you know, previously, if you take sort of Ukraine, you
know it was very much sort of this.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Is what's happening on the other side of the world.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
But when you see I think bombs coming down or
drones being shot down over places that in the Soun's
quite appreciate. Well, yeah, we've been to all my friends
are on holiday. I've got some friends stuck in to
buy You know, when you kind of have that element
of it, it does feel like it's really affecting them personally.
And I think that's where you start to actually have
that buy it. And I think the unexpected and sort
(16:27):
of scatter gun kind of nature of the attacks and
the action that's been taken over the last ten days
does make you a much more on edge about well,
what was the rhyme or reason?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Where can you come into that?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And you know Trump's unpredictability before it was this joke
of this orange man you know, who said ridiculous things
on the TV. But it's very clear that he's in
charge of hitting that big red button and he's pretty
happy to do it.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Said this morning, he wants to select the next Geranium leader.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Peter. In your lifetime, has there been a time where
you felt when you've actually sat back and had your
cup of tea and thought, gosh, this is pretty close
to World War Three? No.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
I think the only other time I can remember, and
I was very very young at the time is the
Cuban missile crisis, and that was more because we didn't
have the information. This looked like this is the great
showdown between the Russians and the Americans, and the heroic
President Kennedy saved the day. But you know that was
sort of out there a long way away, and it
was what could happen. This has actually happened, and the
(17:29):
question is how it's curtailed. Frankly, because it seems to
be expanding its scope.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Do you think it will get involved, you see, I'll
get involved. I'll got to ask Peter this because if
you worked in that environment, do you think we'll get
involved in any way?
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well, it's difficult to see what we could do. To
be honest, we've got three hercules in the air Force.
I doubt that we'll get involved in it if we
chose to in an offensive capacity. I think it's far
more likely that we could get involved post whatever the
events are in some of the cleaner construction, peacekeeping, those
(18:02):
sorts of things, which we're actually quite good at. But
we're not frankly a big enough to be significant in this.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Just very quickly before I go to the news, I
just want to get you both your thoughts on today.
Apparently the Waken City Council is going to bring out
some recommendations on how to save money and keep our
rates down. I mean, Bridget, are you expecting to hear
anything that's going to have any significance whatsoever? Or is
this the start of the Andrew Little leadership.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
I think we will see some significant things in the
recommendations today, mostly because a Andrew Little has the mandate
to do it, but also because he's got the counselors
around the table to actually get some votes through. It
does feel I think for most Valentinians that the grown
nuts are back in charge of the council and so
we are going to see some I think, tough decisions.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
But I think you've seen that unity.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
You're not seeing the councilors speaking out against each other
and all that kind of stuff happening, so they've got
the ability to actually make these tough decisions.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Peter your thoughts, I.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Don't think we're going to get decisions per se. We're
going to get recommendations in a sense of direction. And
I think the challenge from here for the mayor, who
I think is done pretty well so far, is he's
now going to be seen to drive this through. If
it's derailed or weakened or softened, we're risk caring right
back to the playground we've just come out of. And
(19:16):
I think what Wellingtonians will be looking at was will
be the basic question, what's it mean for my rates?
It is the council doing the basics properly and have
all the pet projects been tossed out the window. If
they can sell that message of restraint, common sense and
an affordable rating structure, then there's progress.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Surely we can sit back and have a cup of
tea after we've done takena the old town hall and
the library. Gosh, we can't, We've got can't have any
more major project.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
No, we do major projects. It's that infrastructure we can't see.
We can't have any more major vanity projects. Yes, yes,
I think I think we very deliberately need a project
that addresses the pool and the sea.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yes, and keeping it out mower Point, mower Point Andrew
l Mayor Andrew Little has said that business is announced
on this show that they went the Council was looking
at giving them absolutely no compensation. Peter had done your
thoughts on that. We have already this morning's paper you
would have seen an article about a legendary surf shop,
(20:16):
you know, thinking about closing things are pretty tough around that.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
It is tough, and I feel for those businesses that
have been adversely affected. But I think for a couple
of reasons. Firstly, its own parless financial situation, and secondly,
the sort of issue of is it a good idea?
And I don't think it's appropriate for the council to
compensate them in this instance.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, and we've all been in that situation before, as
businesses in Wellington where pipes are being dug out in
the front. We think of Thorned and what they did
to Thorn, and I know that they gave them a
piecemeal fifteen hundred bucks wouldn't even buy them lunch. You know, realistically,
bridget more than your thoughts when you heard that.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I think, yeah, you feel for those businesses, but yeah,
the president that it would set would be quite difficult.
I mean, you know, you think about a cafe that's
in the bottom of a government agency building when we're
from home became so common.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Did they get compensation with government?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
They were broken closed, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
So lots of government decisions, local or central have an
impact on businesses and I think you can't get into
that situation where you are compensating because you just never
kind of get to the end of it. Unfortunately. And
I say this as someone you know who's a small
business owner myself. You've got to sometimes ride with that
toughness and try and prepare for the best you can.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And to be fair from someone that has had a
business in Lyle Bay for twelve years, you get good
summers and bad summers, and that can determine how much
you make and lose anyway.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
And that's the issue. It becomes where you draw the line.
And the other thing I'd say is that we did
sort of try to do a bit of this post
COVID and it wasn't a spectacular success. The money was
not directed to where it should have gone, and as
a consequence of the country's balloon.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Very good point there, Peter, I knew that that was.
You know, that was a very good point. I never
thought about that. Now Wellington's Library opens next week, March
the fourteenth, That next week or the week after it opens. Now,
I had the privilege of going through the library. Bridget Morton,
your youth will tell you that international libraries are more
(22:11):
than books. Now, this library, I don't know whether you've
had the opportunity to research or have a look at it,
or it's got everything from our documentation on our plans
and files for our housing. It's got you know, a
production room you can actually make a whole movie in
their type thing. It's got a green wall, it's got
a recording studio, it's got three D printers. I mean,
(22:33):
it's Hollywood comes to a library.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Look, I'm a massive nerd and love reading books, So
a big giant library does make me excited. It's not
a project when they decide to the rebuild that I
actually supported from a fiscal point of view, I actually
didn't think that it was right for ratepayers, but we
have invested in therefore it should be the best possible
use for our community. I do think we are losing
a little bit of functionality by losing those pop ups
(22:58):
that we had. I think that just got our community.
It's you know, the library's out into the communities a
little bit more so I hope they kind of continue
that kind of practice. But yeah, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Are you excited about all the add ons? Because it
is it's like going to you know, for a young
well in Tony, it'll be like a mini trip to
Disney has so much there.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
No, I think that's abouly fantastic And frankly, if you
can get more young people through the door engaging with
you know, research and the ability to make things in
their creativity, like, that's absolutely fantastic and you know, hopefully
then they go and read some books too.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Peter Dunn, No, I agree, and I've been quite impressed
with the new Johnsonville Library. I've been going there with
my grandkids. We love that whole sort of interactive environment cafe.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It's pretty good too.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
So I think that the new Well Income Library, which
I haven't seen yet, will be in that vein. And
I'm just reminded of my good friend Gary Moore, the
former christ Church mayor, who said when he became mayor,
he embarked on a policy of not just upgrading, but
strengthening libraries because they were the primary community resource, because
they've got the information, the access to data, make sure
(24:05):
the network not just central library, but the network's well resourced,
and in time of emergency, this was before the earthquake,
they become the place that people actually can go through
to get the information they need. And I think it's
a pretty good point in that.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Great point in that try to face off Bridget Morton
Peter Dunbridget. Government's starting round two of the boot camps,
four million dollars for ten people. Last one that they ran,
the pilot success rate of forty percent. One of them
died tragically, so thirty percent success rate. When do we
(24:39):
start saying we've sort of got crime under control? Do
we need boot camps.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I don't think we can say that we're curme in
control for a long time. And I think what you've
actually got to look at is that the boot camps
are about the pipeline. You know, we can identify and
intervene in earlier stages, so we know some factors around
you to support around family infano, we know that and
education levels, we need a health intervention services. But we
(25:03):
know that the kids that are unfortunately in those boot
camps are ones with the toughest challenges. And therefore, I
think for people expecting that they were going to get
you know, miracles with one hundred percent or eighty percent,
we have to be realistic.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Can you expect a little bit better than than six
reoffended while they were still in the camp and the
process one died. Don't you think we expected a little bit?
Speaker 4 (25:23):
I think we need to be a little bit nuanced.
And I don't know this, but it's not just about
whether or not they're offended. What is there actually what
is changing in their lives? And I hope they've learned
some lessons from that first round as well. But I
do think we have to be realistic that we do
need intervention services and wrap around intervention services. There's been
a fashion to kind of move based back to you know,
community based, you know, sentences and services delivered.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know in the home or on the community.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
But for some people, and this goes across the board,
whether it be health education or in our correctional space,
there are some people that we just actually are best
to isolate and wrap around entirely.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Peter Dunne four million dollars.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
It's a cost in a half, very small numbers of
people involved, probably about twenty year over the two trials,
So there's some risks I think in trying to draw
too many conclusions from it. I think the bigger question
is we have access now through things like the multidisciplinary
study in Dunedin and other studies of that nature, to
(26:20):
a lot of the data which enables us, if we're
of a mind to to identify early at risk families
acorous children and then to develop the appropriate services to
deal with them prevent those problems escalating. The problem is,
though we're not doing enough of that, because we get
a bit too tied up about if we do that,
we're going to be pointing the finger at this at
(26:42):
risk person or this at risk family or not. And
so we keep these broad rush community approaches which will
never work frankly because of their scope. So if we're
serious about reducing inequality with reducing crime, reducing disadvantage and dysfunctionality,
will make much better use of the data and much
more effectively target our responses than we are.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Pretty sensible idea time for a break and come back
with hot so nuts the Friday fat and not Bridget Morton,
I know what your hot's going to be, so but
you tell us.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Really, I don't know if you do. Okay, Mine is
that I look for any green shirts. So their economy
is turning around and seeing that some results out this
week that retail.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Spending in the last month was, you know, one of
the highest it's been in the last two years.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
But the point that really that stood out to me
was the fact that the biggest spender is Valentine's Day
and Southland and Palmston all So that tends up where
you need to go for your romance.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
That's where it's hot, I know, I know, so.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Yeah, that's definitely my heart this time, my not it's
also in the regions. Todding, the City Council suppose you've
got thirty four complaints last year about Beepoo by people
complaining about the poor bees having to you know, go,
you know, it goes through their natural cycle. And I
just think people need to be a bit more realistic
that we live in the world and that nature is
(28:06):
happening around us, and the bees are a pretty important
part of our ecosystem, and I think they need to
find something better to complain about.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I thought your hot was going to be your big hot,
race tomorrow, run tomorrow, not race run tomorrow. But that's
pretty hot, Peter done. Your hots are not well, my hot.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I'm just about to sneeze.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I think probably my hot is.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
I'm becoming more and more impressed with the performance of
our mayor. I think he's done a particularly good job
so far. I think he's got the council, if not
on an even keel, then certainly in the direction we're
an even keel as possible. He's got the crazies under
control and silenced, and that's good. He's got the challenges
I said earlier of maintaining that, but I've been very
impressed and I just want to encourage him to keep
(28:50):
on doing what he's doing because I think it's long term.
Wellington needs a steady hand at the tiller, and that's
what it's gone. My not is I was appalled and
horrified to learn last week or the week before, of
plans by n ZTA to consult on a whole changes
to traffic laws, including giving buses right of way to
(29:11):
leave bus stops. I drive around town quite a lot,
and I think it's dangerous now the way buses just
suddenly pull out from stops without taking much regard of
what's behind them, if they are legally sanctioned that that's
okay to do so, I think it's a real risk
to public safety. I think that the danger is I'll
pull out on top of oncoming traffic pedestrians because they've
(29:33):
got right.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Away, don't you I'm just asking you both, and you
can just quickly tell me. I always give as soon
as the indicators on the bus. I always give them
right away, do you.
Speaker 5 (29:41):
Know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Don't you know?
Speaker 5 (29:43):
I think that they should be subject to the same
rules that I'm subject to.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
This is one of these clasic rule changes that actually
thought the rule was that you gave way TODs when
I saw it coming as well as like, oh I
thought they already existed.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, I just think it's a need to It sounds
a good idea in terms of facilitating the movement, but
I just think given that a lot of people do
it anyway, bus drivers do it anyway, and it causes
I think a measure of strife for pedestrians and motorists
to sort of. So it's okay to do it all
the time, it is a huge risk.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I'm one of those people that give way to everybody,
and I get really pissed off when they don't wave.
Really I can that's road rays, you know what I mean.
You give way, you pull over, leadpaperman past the straight
driving straight past you like they don't give it any
I said, look, I'm going up the hill. You're supposed
to give way to me. I'm still giving away to
your wave, you know, and take much energy, does it?
(30:29):
Peter had done Bridget Morton, thank you for taking time
out to come on the show. Great to see you both.
Bridge all the very best for your run. I think
it's amazing You've got a fan and meet so well done.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks it'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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