June 23, 2026 • 11 mins
Labour leader Chris Hipkins joins Nick Mills on Wellington Mornings for his monthly chat.
The latest One News Verian poll has the two major parties at the lowest combined result in 30 years, Hipkins says Kiwis are "disgruntled with the status quo".
Hipkins and Mills discuss the rise of TOP, and if Labour would be willing to work with the growing party come election day.
Also on the agenda is the lack of conversation around superannuation from the Labour party, what they want to see with Kiwi saver and why Labour will not means test with their new policies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Be managed to get hold of Chris hepgives good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Chris, Okick, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm good? Thanks? So your flight get delayed?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah yeah, a little bit later, the little bit bumpy
coming into Auckland. I've got to tell you, the weather
in Wellington today is better than the weather in Auckland.
So there you go. Don't let any of these Aucklanders
tell you that the weather up is better.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Can I just quickly say, didn't it annoy you as
a well In tone in, as a leader of a
party that the worst day of we've had this winter
was the day when the whole of the world, will
anyone in the sporting world was watching us for the
Super Final?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah I know, I know. And I was flying that
day too, which was a bit of it. It was
a shock.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh gosh, amazing. Okay. The two major parties have reached
a combined result of sixty one percent in the latest poll.
That's the lowest in thirty years. Now, I'm not a
Poles guy, and you're going to say you're not a
Poles guy, but this is quite worrying. For you guys,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I think any politicians will tell you that they're not polls.
People are actually lying to you. Of course, we all
pay attention to the polls, but I think the key
thing is you don't want to get to obsessed about
one individual poll. The overall trend in the polls is
what matters. This particular poll, the TV one pole, it's
a good poll, it's a credible poll, but their numbers
are kind of an outlier in terms of where the
other poles are trending at the moment. Overall, Labor's trending up.
(01:29):
You know, we've seen our support trending up. National support
is trending down. We're seeing more and more polls now
that are showing that, you know, there's a support, there's
a majority supt for a change of government. And those
are all, you know, you know, very encouraging signs for
us as we head into the election campaign.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now, we all have seen you and your other Chris
pushing that everyone should vote Labor if they want a
left wing power base, and National saying everybody should vote
National forget about the smaller parties. Yet this is this
poll saying that more people are swinging towards it with
all that other promotion.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Why I think we're you know, we're living through a
pretty disruptive period at the moment. People are feeling quite
rightly and understandably, but just gruntled with the status quo.
And so we're seeing around you know, opinion polls at
the moment, you're seeing it around the world as well.
Our job in the next few months, my job as
the leader of the Labor Party in the next few months,
is to convince people that actually you can get good
(02:26):
change by voting Labor top Now.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I watched Qla Wong on Q and A a few
months ago, and I came on the show the next
day and said, watch out. She was a leader. And
you know, some of their text stuff is out there.
But as a smaller party, they've got some real sort
of I don't know, innovative ideas, prepared to work with
both sides of the fence. What are your thoughts when
(02:53):
you saw that they're up to four point six I
mean they're getting close.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I mean that's the only there's only I think two
poles that have had them with any kind of decent
shot at a five percent. That's getting to five percent
in the last couple of months. Most other poles have
still got them below the margin of era. So I
think it's still very early days and we still don't
really kind of know what the kind of key priorities are.
They've got some policies that are you know, pretty out there,
(03:18):
and you know, no doubt we'll find out a bit
more about what they actually believe in if they if
they come under a bit more scrutiny. So that's the
nature of election campaign.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Would you be prepared to work with them if you
needed to?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, the things we don't really know much about them yet,
and I think actually the people I don't actually believe
at five percent of New Zealanders or anywhere close to
five percent of New Zealanders have even heard of them,
So you know, I think they've got a fair way
to go.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yet I disagree a little bit. And I think that
they've got some major shareholders or major stakeholders now putting
money in. They've got the money. You know, when are
we going to start taking them a little bit more seriously?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Well, I mean, we'll see how they how they go
in the polls in the next couple of months, and
you know, no doubt there'll be some scrutiny on what
it is they're campaigning on and what it is that
they believe in, as every other is subjected to. And
you know that's a healthy part of the electoral process.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I mean, would you prefer to work with them than
to Party Marii or the Greens?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
As I've said to you many times before, we'll set
that out closer to the election.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
You know, we want to vote, Chris, we want to vote.
We want to know where we're voting. So I mean,
if you don't tell us what that you have prepared
to join with them or them or you'd take them serious,
or would you actually prefer to be with to Party Mariy,
then Top, we want to know before we go to
the polling booth.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Oh and you're absolutely well, Nak, But there's still a
lot of water to flow under the bridge. I mean,
but when people were asking me this question at the
beginning of the year, Top weren't even in the picture.
And now suddenly everybody's clambering to ask about that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, because we want an answer.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
In the next we'll see, we'll see how this all
unfoults in the next few months, and then we'll see
that you know, how we think we could form government
after the election where we think, you know, we've got
policies in common with other parties, you know who we
think we could work with.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Who have you? Who have you got more in common
with the Greens? To party MARI or TOP? Is that
a more simple way of putting it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well, one of the challenges with TOP is, you know,
we don't really know what they're campaigning on yet, so
there's still not a lot not a lot out there.
They've got a few policies out there, some of them
are pretty out there out there, but we still don't
know necessarily where they stand on quite a lot of
pretty fundamental issues.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, I'm not going to get anywhere, so I'm going
to move on. You say Labor won't have a conversation
about changing super yet.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Why because New Zealand superannuation can be sustainable. We can.
We can do both. We can have key, we say,
or we can have New Zealand Superannuation if we make
the right choices. The current government are making choices that
make that harder. Our intention is to make choices that
mean that superannuation is sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, I mean, when you look at the GDP numbers
five point one today in about eight percent in two
thousand and sixty five. I mean, if you're not going
to change anything, we're in a lot of trouble and
surely you want to.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Look at it.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, you know, eight percent, if you look at relative
to what other countries are spending on superannuation, it's not
out of the ballpark. You know, you can't compare New
Zealand internationally with what other countries are doing. And when
we're by no means in the extreme year about.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Fifty billion dollars, I mean, that's what could cost us.
I mean, we just don't have that sort of money.
When when are you going to look at it and
say maybe we should change it to sixty six or
sixty seven. I mean everyone else is looking at it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, that comment we just don't have the money, is
we perhaps one of the most elder informed comments I've
ever heard you make. It's just you know, New Zealand
government has been putting money aside. We've got billions of
dollars set aside in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to
help us meet the cost of retirement. We can do
more in that area and we will. We can do
more to grow the New Zealand economy so that we
(06:49):
have more money coming in so that we can meet
these costs.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How there are plenty of How well formed is it
that twenty percent nineteen percent of every tax dollar I
pay goes towards it when I'm sitting here waiting thirteen fourteen,
fifteen months later for a simple operation. So couldn't we
actually put a bit of that money towards actually getting
your father, my uncle an operation, or myself in hospital?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, all government says are said to have choices, and
you can make different choices about how we do healthcare.
If we spend more money in health care on keeping
people healthy, than the people who actually need to be
in hospital will be able to get into hospital faster.
We've got a whole lot of people showing up in
hospital emergency departments that don't need to be there. If
they could either go to their GP beforehand, or go
and collect their prescription from the pharmacy beforehand so that
(07:34):
they can actually stay healthy and not end up in hospital,
that has the potential to save us millions of dollars
every year. That money can then go and providing healthcare
to the people who actually need to be in hospital.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Now, I know that you've had your people work on this,
must have had at least looked at it. Is there
a simple way of means testing?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Means testing which anything.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Super drugs everything you've announced? We could, you know, giving
free pharmacy out again. I mean, I don't need free
pharmacy drugs. You don't need them. Why are we getting them?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, because that's a policy that I ultimately pays off.
Because at the moment.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How does we pay off when you know you and
I don't need to pay that five dollars, I mean
we don't we can afford to pay it.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Because if you show up in a hospital emergency department,
then ultimately we all pay the cost of that. And
we've got a whole lot of people tens of thousands
of admissions to hospital every year from people who have
not collected prescriptions. So we give them their prescriptions for free.
That's tens of thousands fewer people showing up in hospital
emergency departments. You and I all pay for that.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So that doesn't change the fact that I would not
buy the drugs because I can't afford them. That doesn't
change that fact that you know, you me and Mike
Cosking don't need to not pay the five dollars, does it?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I mean, ultimately you provide universal public services, everybody pays
their texts, everybody should benefit from them. You know, you've
got the current government saying that we should we shouldn't
do targeting, and then other way saying that we should.
So they have a problem with targeting healthcare to the
people who have the worst health outcome, you know, because
of their ethnicity, and yet they're now saying I don't
ever do targeted things. They can't make up their mind
(09:12):
where they stand on them.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Is there any reason why you oppose National's policy to
make Key we Save a compulsory.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I haven't a posted. I've said that there's still some
very real questions around how they would actually do that.
So if you look at the people who aren't currently
in Key We Savor at the moment, tends to be
people on lower incomes and people who are self employees.
And in many cases they're not in Key We Saver
not because they don't want to be, but because they
can't afford to be, and making it compulsory doesn't make
it any more affordable for them. So you potentially push
(09:41):
some of those people into real financial hardship. These are
people who are budgeting every cent that they earn at
the moment just to meet the day to day cost
of living, and you're potentially taking money off them to
put into their KEII saver. There's money, there's money they
just don't have.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Will we see a policy on that before the election.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Oh, we've got our own key we saver policy that
we will be putting out before the election. Yet absolutely, is.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It likely to have compulsory in any form or anyway.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I'm not answering any questions policy that we have an
announced yet, Nick, but I'll let you notice. You're be
able to ask me any questions you want once we've
announced it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Okay, so we've just got to sit back and wait again.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, yeah, I mean different parties announce their policies in
a difference. You know, we've made most a lot of
our healthcare policy announcements we've made already. We've made announcements
around public transport and things like that. You know, Captain
public transport bears, which is huge for Wellington. Actually lots
of people on Wellington will benefit from that. But you know,
we've got plenty more policy to come.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Can you just give me a yes or no on
this one? Will you can you actually take any of
the Greens tax policy seriously?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Oh, We've been very very clear that the tax policy
that we're campaigning on is a simple targeted capital gains tax,
and then we won't support going further than with things
like wealth taxes and inheritance taxes and higher corporate taxes
and so on.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What happens, it's a do or die situation come end
of the year after the election. Go with the Greens
and they make it a non negotiable that they get
a B or C and you form government.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Do you do? I just don't think that's ever going
to happen. Next I think it's going to happen. Well, no,
it's not. I mean, ultimately, the Greens you know, are
not going to They're not going to be in a
position to force things through. And this is the difference
between Christopher Luxon and I. If Christopher Luxon had said
to David Seymour and Winston Veters, if I'm not agreeing
to some of your crazier ideas and if you don't
like that, go and talk to labor, they never would
(11:26):
have come and spoken to us. So I just think,
you know, you do have to set some bottom lines,
and this is one for labor.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Unfortunately, the bottom lines are going to be whether you
want to be in government with a coalition partner that
you don't align with or you don't and that's really
the question that we are I want to know before
I go to the election, going to the poll and vote, go,
you know, that's what I want to know. I'm not
going to find that out. Chris Epkins, thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Be managed to get hold of Chris hepgives good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Chris, Okick, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm good? Thanks? So your flight get delayed?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah yeah, a little bit later, the little bit bumpy
coming into Auckland. I've got to tell you, the weather
in Wellington today is better than the weather in Auckland.
So there you go. Don't let any of these Aucklanders
tell you that the weather up is better.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Can I just quickly say, didn't it annoy you as
a well In tone in, as a leader of a
party that the worst day of we've had this winter
was the day when the whole of the world, will
anyone in the sporting world was watching us for the
Super Final?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah I know, I know. And I was flying that
day too, which was a bit of it. It was
a shock.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh gosh, amazing. Okay. The two major parties have reached
a combined result of sixty one percent in the latest poll.
That's the lowest in thirty years. Now, I'm not a
Poles guy, and you're going to say you're not a
Poles guy, but this is quite worrying. For you guys,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I think any politicians will tell you that they're not polls.
People are actually lying to you. Of course, we all
pay attention to the polls, but I think the key
thing is you don't want to get to obsessed about
one individual poll. The overall trend in the polls is
what matters. This particular poll, the TV one pole, it's
a good poll, it's a credible poll, but their numbers
are kind of an outlier in terms of where the
other poles are trending at the moment. Overall, Labor's trending up.
(01:29):
You know, we've seen our support trending up. National support
is trending down. We're seeing more and more polls now
that are showing that, you know, there's a support, there's
a majority supt for a change of government. And those
are all, you know, you know, very encouraging signs for
us as we head into the election campaign.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now, we all have seen you and your other Chris
pushing that everyone should vote Labor if they want a
left wing power base, and National saying everybody should vote
National forget about the smaller parties. Yet this is this
poll saying that more people are swinging towards it with
all that other promotion.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Why I think we're you know, we're living through a
pretty disruptive period at the moment. People are feeling quite
rightly and understandably, but just gruntled with the status quo.
And so we're seeing around you know, opinion polls at
the moment, you're seeing it around the world as well.
Our job in the next few months, my job as
the leader of the Labor Party in the next few months,
is to convince people that actually you can get good
(02:26):
change by voting Labor top Now.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I watched Qla Wong on Q and A a few
months ago, and I came on the show the next
day and said, watch out. She was a leader. And
you know, some of their text stuff is out there.
But as a smaller party, they've got some real sort
of I don't know, innovative ideas, prepared to work with
both sides of the fence. What are your thoughts when
(02:53):
you saw that they're up to four point six I
mean they're getting close.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I mean that's the only there's only I think two
poles that have had them with any kind of decent
shot at a five percent. That's getting to five percent
in the last couple of months. Most other poles have
still got them below the margin of era. So I
think it's still very early days and we still don't
really kind of know what the kind of key priorities are.
They've got some policies that are you know, pretty out there,
(03:18):
and you know, no doubt we'll find out a bit
more about what they actually believe in if they if
they come under a bit more scrutiny. So that's the
nature of election campaign.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Would you be prepared to work with them if you
needed to?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, the things we don't really know much about them yet,
and I think actually the people I don't actually believe
at five percent of New Zealanders or anywhere close to
five percent of New Zealanders have even heard of them,
So you know, I think they've got a fair way
to go.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yet I disagree a little bit. And I think that
they've got some major shareholders or major stakeholders now putting
money in. They've got the money. You know, when are
we going to start taking them a little bit more seriously?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Well, I mean, we'll see how they how they go
in the polls in the next couple of months, and
you know, no doubt there'll be some scrutiny on what
it is they're campaigning on and what it is that
they believe in, as every other is subjected to. And
you know that's a healthy part of the electoral process.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I mean, would you prefer to work with them than
to Party Marii or the Greens?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
As I've said to you many times before, we'll set
that out closer to the election.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
You know, we want to vote, Chris, we want to vote.
We want to know where we're voting. So I mean,
if you don't tell us what that you have prepared
to join with them or them or you'd take them serious,
or would you actually prefer to be with to Party Mariy,
then Top, we want to know before we go to
the polling booth.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Oh and you're absolutely well, Nak, But there's still a
lot of water to flow under the bridge. I mean,
but when people were asking me this question at the
beginning of the year, Top weren't even in the picture.
And now suddenly everybody's clambering to ask about that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, because we want an answer.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
In the next we'll see, we'll see how this all
unfoults in the next few months, and then we'll see
that you know, how we think we could form government
after the election where we think, you know, we've got
policies in common with other parties, you know who we
think we could work with.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Who have you? Who have you got more in common
with the Greens? To party MARI or TOP? Is that
a more simple way of putting it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Well, one of the challenges with TOP is, you know,
we don't really know what they're campaigning on yet, so
there's still not a lot not a lot out there.
They've got a few policies out there, some of them
are pretty out there out there, but we still don't
know necessarily where they stand on quite a lot of
pretty fundamental issues.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, I'm not going to get anywhere, so I'm going
to move on. You say Labor won't have a conversation
about changing super yet.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Why because New Zealand superannuation can be sustainable. We can.
We can do both. We can have key, we say,
or we can have New Zealand Superannuation if we make
the right choices. The current government are making choices that
make that harder. Our intention is to make choices that
mean that superannuation is sustainable.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, I mean, when you look at the GDP numbers
five point one today in about eight percent in two
thousand and sixty five. I mean, if you're not going
to change anything, we're in a lot of trouble and
surely you want to.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Look at it.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, you know, eight percent, if you look at relative
to what other countries are spending on superannuation, it's not
out of the ballpark. You know, you can't compare New
Zealand internationally with what other countries are doing. And when
we're by no means in the extreme year about.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Fifty billion dollars, I mean, that's what could cost us.
I mean, we just don't have that sort of money.
When when are you going to look at it and
say maybe we should change it to sixty six or
sixty seven. I mean everyone else is looking at it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, that comment we just don't have the money, is
we perhaps one of the most elder informed comments I've
ever heard you make. It's just you know, New Zealand
government has been putting money aside. We've got billions of
dollars set aside in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to
help us meet the cost of retirement. We can do
more in that area and we will. We can do
more to grow the New Zealand economy so that we
(06:49):
have more money coming in so that we can meet
these costs.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How there are plenty of How well formed is it
that twenty percent nineteen percent of every tax dollar I
pay goes towards it when I'm sitting here waiting thirteen fourteen,
fifteen months later for a simple operation. So couldn't we
actually put a bit of that money towards actually getting
your father, my uncle an operation, or myself in hospital?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, all government says are said to have choices, and
you can make different choices about how we do healthcare.
If we spend more money in health care on keeping
people healthy, than the people who actually need to be
in hospital will be able to get into hospital faster.
We've got a whole lot of people showing up in
hospital emergency departments that don't need to be there. If
they could either go to their GP beforehand, or go
and collect their prescription from the pharmacy beforehand so that
(07:34):
they can actually stay healthy and not end up in hospital,
that has the potential to save us millions of dollars
every year. That money can then go and providing healthcare
to the people who actually need to be in hospital.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Now, I know that you've had your people work on this,
must have had at least looked at it. Is there
a simple way of means testing?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Means testing which anything.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Super drugs everything you've announced? We could, you know, giving
free pharmacy out again. I mean, I don't need free
pharmacy drugs. You don't need them. Why are we getting them?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, because that's a policy that I ultimately pays off.
Because at the moment.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How does we pay off when you know you and
I don't need to pay that five dollars, I mean
we don't we can afford to pay it.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Because if you show up in a hospital emergency department,
then ultimately we all pay the cost of that. And
we've got a whole lot of people tens of thousands
of admissions to hospital every year from people who have
not collected prescriptions. So we give them their prescriptions for free.
That's tens of thousands fewer people showing up in hospital
emergency departments. You and I all pay for that.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So that doesn't change the fact that I would not
buy the drugs because I can't afford them. That doesn't
change that fact that you know, you me and Mike
Cosking don't need to not pay the five dollars, does it?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I mean, ultimately you provide universal public services, everybody pays
their texts, everybody should benefit from them. You know, you've
got the current government saying that we should we shouldn't
do targeting, and then other way saying that we should.
So they have a problem with targeting healthcare to the
people who have the worst health outcome, you know, because
of their ethnicity, and yet they're now saying I don't
ever do targeted things. They can't make up their mind
(09:12):
where they stand on them.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Is there any reason why you oppose National's policy to
make Key we Save a compulsory.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I haven't a posted. I've said that there's still some
very real questions around how they would actually do that.
So if you look at the people who aren't currently
in Key We Savor at the moment, tends to be
people on lower incomes and people who are self employees.
And in many cases they're not in Key We Saver
not because they don't want to be, but because they
can't afford to be, and making it compulsory doesn't make
it any more affordable for them. So you potentially push
(09:41):
some of those people into real financial hardship. These are
people who are budgeting every cent that they earn at
the moment just to meet the day to day cost
of living, and you're potentially taking money off them to
put into their KEII saver. There's money, there's money they
just don't have.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Will we see a policy on that before the election.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Oh, we've got our own key we saver policy that
we will be putting out before the election. Yet absolutely, is.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It likely to have compulsory in any form or anyway.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I'm not answering any questions policy that we have an
announced yet, Nick, but I'll let you notice. You're be
able to ask me any questions you want once we've
announced it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Okay, so we've just got to sit back and wait again.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, yeah, I mean different parties announce their policies in
a difference. You know, we've made most a lot of
our healthcare policy announcements we've made already. We've made announcements
around public transport and things like that. You know, Captain
public transport bears, which is huge for Wellington. Actually lots
of people on Wellington will benefit from that. But you know,
we've got plenty more policy to come.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Can you just give me a yes or no on
this one? Will you can you actually take any of
the Greens tax policy seriously?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Oh, We've been very very clear that the tax policy
that we're campaigning on is a simple targeted capital gains tax,
and then we won't support going further than with things
like wealth taxes and inheritance taxes and higher corporate taxes
and so on.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
What happens, it's a do or die situation come end
of the year after the election. Go with the Greens
and they make it a non negotiable that they get
a B or C and you form government.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Do you do? I just don't think that's ever going
to happen. Next I think it's going to happen. Well, no,
it's not. I mean, ultimately, the Greens you know, are
not going to They're not going to be in a
position to force things through. And this is the difference
between Christopher Luxon and I. If Christopher Luxon had said
to David Seymour and Winston Veters, if I'm not agreeing
to some of your crazier ideas and if you don't
like that, go and talk to labor, they never would
(11:26):
have come and spoken to us. So I just think,
you know, you do have to set some bottom lines,
and this is one for labor.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Unfortunately, the bottom lines are going to be whether you
want to be in government with a coalition partner that
you don't align with or you don't and that's really
the question that we are I want to know before
I go to the election, going to the poll and vote, go,
you know, that's what I want to know. I'm not
going to find that out. Chris Epkins, thank you for
joining us.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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