Pharmacist Clive Cannons on the Government expanding power for chemists

Pharmacies will get more power to provide funded medication from June.

Government is proposing to expand the role of community pharmacists, allowing them to assess patients and provide funded treatment for common conditions like infections, head lice, and minor illnesses.

The move aims to make healthcare faster, cheaper, and more accessible while easing pressure on GPs.

Nick speaks to co-founder/spokesperson for the Independent Community Pharmacy Group Clive Cannons. Cannon's also runs his own pharmacy Clive’s Chemist in Wainuiomata.

Cannon's shares his insight onto the move - which his pharmacy has been trialling for the last few years. 

He says while pharmacists have already been doing this, this is a win as they can provide the medication to patients - funded.

Cannon also tells Nick about how he expects pharmacies to look like in the future, and if this power could expand.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
AB Armacist Clive Cannons joins us. Clive runs, a chemist
and Wainuia Mata, a founder and spokesperson for the Independent
Community Pharmacy Group.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Good morning, Clive, Good morning. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm very well? Thanks? Well are you celebrating? Is this
a good idea? Is this a good plan? Or are
you worried about the extra work that you're going to
have to do?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well? All of the above, but you know, I think
it's a great plan. I think it's really good because
it gives us the opportunity to relieve some of the
pressure that gps are under with some of the easier
conditions to diagnose and treat, which is fantastic, and hopefully
that I have a flow on through the whole health system.

(00:53):
But we've actually been doing this for a while now.
It's what we do every day. So it just means
that the patients can get their medicine subsidize rather than
have to buy them off the shelf. So I think
it's going to be great.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
So if it's been going on for a while, you've
had a go at it is it working, yes, So.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
We've been a trial site for this for I was
trying to remember when we started, but I'd say at
least three years, and it's very well received by our
community and it works extremely well, to the point now
where our local GP refers patients to us with these
conditions for us to treat rather than than treating them
at the surgery. So it's been a win win on

(01:34):
every level.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
What's the worst sort of condition that you could come
and see a pharmacist.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
With, Well, I mean you can come and see us
about any condition, and if we can't treat it, we'll
always refer you back to someone who can. So there
is a limited level of stuff that we can write
prescriptions for here, such as scabies and headlighte and eye
in fictions and urine trapped infections and things like that.

(02:02):
If someone presents with something that is beyond our scope,
we will all refer them back or point them in
the right direction. So we're seeing all sorts of things
I can assure you with that, Nick.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Okay, and many that you've had to send back to
to a GP or even to an emergency service.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yep, all the time, all the time. In fact, many
times a day, we will actually do a referral. Will often,
for example, children with school saws. We don't have the
ability to treat that, but because they're so contagious and
if they're left untreated it's so serious, we'll just ring
up our local doctors and say we've got a child here,
we need you to see them straight away, and they'll

(02:40):
generally try and fit them in. We've got such a
good relationship.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
And they would know that it's real because you're carding.
I mean, is this enough that I mean, obviously Kiwis
know that with the big box chemist shops that are
coming and it's hurting the guys like you, I mean,
is this enough to help you and save you?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I think it's part of the part of the picture.
Like we can't I'm not even going to try to
compete with them on my retail prices. But what we
are trying to do is improve the level of service
that we give to our community. And to do all
these these take all these opportunities to be able to
lift out go and do more for the people that
come here. So I'm not sure if it's the whole story,

(03:24):
but it's certainly a big part of it because I
think the big difference between our pharmacy and a big
box pharmacy is that I've been in the community now
for forty years, so we know everybody here, we know
their history, so we can treat people and have really
good relationships, and that really helps with people's trust in

(03:44):
us and what we recommend. So I think it's a
very good thing.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, Now, I've always wondered this. If I was taking
a regular medication, I forgot to renew, right, and you know,
and I do I take blood pressure medication. If I
went to my local chemist and said, look, I haven't
got a script, but I've run out of my blood pressure.
You can see on the computer that I've got it
from you before. Would the chemist actually give it to you?

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yes, So we can't give you a full supply, like
we're not allowed to write a three month prescription for
blood pressure medication. But what we can do is give
you an emergency supply. We can give you enough for
three days until you can see your doctor. So any
any any chronic condition. I mean, there are a few limitations,

(04:31):
but blood pressure medication. If you can't get a prescription,
if you can't see your doctor, we will always help
you out.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I've always I've always wondered that, you know, and I've
always been really nervous to make sure I ordered mine
in case I actually ran out, and a couple of
times it's actually stressed me, and I thought, I wonder
if I went to my local chemist, i'd look after.
I suppose there'd be a whole lot of listeners out
there thinking exactly the same thing.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, don't get stressed. We are the good guys, you know,
try and do what we can. And it's it's another
thing that's very common and that we deal with every day.
So if anyone ever runs out of medication, the first
portal or is to go to the pharmacy and we
will help you.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Do you think it could expand to something like this,
And this is something that I've really always thought about
as an entrepreneur. Would it be possible to have a
GP in a chemist shop?

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yes. In fact, I think there are a few pharmacies
around the country that may be trialing that. Right now,
we have a nurse here working in our pharmacy doing
wound care and a whole lot of stuff like that,
and I have thought about getting a GP in, but
at this point it's just not feasible for me to
do that. But there is actually no reason why, in

(05:45):
the right situation and the right community, that wouldn't work.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
So, do you have a little room on your in
your in your pharmacy or a chemists shop that people
can go so they don't have to stand at the
counter and say, look, I've got this embarrassing situation here.
If you've got a little room that they go to.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Ye, we've actually got three rooms. We're doing so much
of this now that I just did a refit in
our pharmacy and we went from one room to three rooms,
and I've got plans to build another two if we
need it. So we're very busy now doing the services
and consulting. And I have one pharmacist on the staff
every day who doesn't do dispensing. All they do is

(06:23):
see people. So it's a changing it's a changing world
for us, and it's a good thing.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's an extremely good thing from my point of view.
From the public's point of view, I would have thought
this is a this is a game changer for everyone.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
And I think I'm hoping that this is just the beginning.
And if pharmacy across the country can show Health New
Zealand and the Minister how good we are at this stuff,
then perhaps there might be other opportunities for us to
take the load off GPS.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Could you see the situation where you have one or
two in the community swapping around and going later, say
to eight o'clock at nights two?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean a lot of pharmacies are
open to eight, nine, ten at night now, It's not uncommon.
So if the demand was there, we would definitely extend
our hours, right, definitely.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Clive, thanks very much for coming on the show. All
the very very best. I think it's a really interesting
topic and I love the idea behind it. I think
it's just such a no brainer. When you can't get
into your GPS makes you feel a lot less stress
and sitting there waiting for a week to see your GP.
Un least the nurse or a pharmacist has seen you
and said, no, you're not that bad, You're okay, go home.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
That's right. Well, listen, I'm ringing back in six months
and I'll tell you how it's going.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I'm going to do better. Then I'm going to try
and get you on out one of our business panels.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
So we can have a.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Chat about it for a lengthy Clive, thanks very much
for joining us in the show. I appreciate it. Nick,
have a good day you too.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Clive Cannon's there from Clive's Chemist and way Nuiamata.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
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