May 13, 2026 • 23 mins
It's Politics Thursday and this week Nick is joined in the studio by National Minister Paul Goldsmith and Labour MP Ayesha Verrall.
They debate the top political issues of the week, including concerns around Wellington project priorities.
After the second Auckland harbour crossing is looking likely to go through, there is still no word on our second Mt Vic Tunnel - is Wellington being slighted?
Then onto immigration, as the government launches more immigration policy, polling shows it is not actually a top 10 issue to Kiwis.
The panel debate if Kiwis should be more concerned and what the priorities are for their parties come election time.
And cutting fees free, is this a broken promise for students currently enrolled in our universities?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said, b A Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know what that means, it's politics Thursday. Today we've
been joined by Paul Goldsmith, Minister for Justice, Arts, Culture
and Heritage, Media and Communications, Public Services and Digitizing Government Treaty,
A White Tanging negotiations and Pacific People's anyone else got
a job in Parliament? Paul Well? Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
One or two? Well, we work hard for our living.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'd love to see your business card isn't two sided?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes? Possibly?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Gosh Ai Scheverral Labor, MP and spokesperson for Health and
Wellington Issues. Good morning morning.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
That lovely to be here cold I Paul, Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Your business card would look a little bit embarrassed. And
you have doctor at the end of your name, so
that's pretty impressive. A.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
You know, thanks, thanks, that makes me feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I just can't believe when I got the list. I wit,
how long is our segment? And it's going to be
all done on your your things, you know. Anyway, Let's
start with the Harbor Bridge, because we've been told this
week that it's going to cost twenty billion dollars and
for the rest of New Zealand has to pay for
your I'm looking at you, Paul, because it's your harbor Bridge,
not ours. And there's no talk about the second Mount
(01:23):
Victoria Tunnel anymore. Where are we at.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well Look, I mean I think these are early days
in terms of a second crossing in Auckland. Ultimately it
is something that we will have to address. Every time
it gets windy in Auckland they shut the harbor bridge
and so I think that's something that's going to have
to be done. But they're a long way away from
making final decisions.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Round but it's going to be made to share.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
They reckon well first steps. There's a long way to
go to actually building it, but yeah, it needs to
be done and that's we've got to have a plan. Likewise,
in Wellington there's a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Of course, We've just.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
We've got work underway going further north on the Expressway,
which is a magnificent piece of roading going north out
of Wellington, and then got the Melling Interchange, huge improvement
and starting the walking and cycling path is going to
be opening along the coast the world. That's yes, that's
very exciting.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So there's plenty. It was still been a great government
that funded that project.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, it's one of those things, these things and come
and waves.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Can you cut back and do you give me a
little bit of an update on my little topic of
the second Mount Victoria Tunnel, because you know your minister
said that there's going to be spades in the ground
by election. I sent too many bulldozers around here lately.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
We have geotech work underway as we speak on that tunnel,
so there is work being done, but you know, the
timing of it is something that the Transport Minister can
talk through. But yeah, I mean, I think it's bindingly
obvious to everybody. We don't have as much money as
we would like, and you know we've got real pressure
(03:04):
on at the moment, so the timings not as fast
as we would like. But you know, there's still work
being done.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
And would it surprise you if I said that, I
don't think it would be called geotechnical in nineteen sixty,
But there was work being done on that second Mount
Victoria Tunnel in nineteen sixty. Now that's a long time ago, eishaver.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
There has been a few missed opportunities over the years,
there's no question about that.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right, I see. I don't get any commitment out
of that at all about the second Mount Victoria tunnel.
I know that Nikola Willis came out the next day
after Chris Bishop said he wanted to look at it
again and he wants them to re evaluate where the
money's going. What's your gut on that.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
That's right. This geotechnical work is not the full project.
It is not spades in the ground and starting building.
This was a major commitment to the people of Wellington
who often spend time in traffic at that bottleneck that
we have around Mount Victoria and the basin. It is
important to this community and indeed the promise was spades
(04:04):
in the ground by the next election. I'm worried that
Chris Bishop is wavering in his commitment to our city
and the project that he promised, and it sounds like
if he's seeking more information, why not let us know
what the issues are. Is it the cost? Is it
because they added on the Terrace tunnel component, which frankly
was incredibly ambitious and I wouldn't be surprised if there
(04:26):
was extra cost there. We need to hear about what
the facts are so we can know if it's worth while.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I don't like to be unkind, but of course it'd
be nice to know what Labour's view on either think
that you'd be funding a second tunnel?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Would you?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Or would you? We haven't got a single policy yet
apart from the cable begs Dad.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
The second tunnel was part of Labour's transport proposals last election,
so that's why we have stayed on board with this project.
We try to take a bipartisan approach to infrastructure. This
is a commitment your government has made and appears to
be backing away from. So rather than having a chip
at us, why don't you just say what the situation is.
If there's more information city needs.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
To know, and we'll be making it announcements in due course.
But there is geotech work going, yes, I mean things
aren't happening as quite as fast as we would have liked.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
But would it be a major I just want to
get a feel of this. Would this be a major
screw up for your party? If we come to election
and Wellington people see nothing. I know that the whole
concentrations on Auckland from both both Labor and National I'm
not and probably everyone else acting in New Zealand versus
(05:35):
well because of the population base. But would it be
a major slight on Wellington if we don't see spades.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well Look, I mean we want Wellington to succeed. We
want Wellington to do well. It's very important that the
city thrives and grows and has a strong you know,
has a wonderful future. So there's no question around that.
It's just a question of the timing of big, major
transport projects and christ Bishop will have announcements around that
(06:03):
in due course.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
When I knock on doors in Wellington. There are a
group of voters for whom infrastructure in our city is
their primary concern, and it will be a tough situation
for the government when they made put their credibility on
the line in terms of their ability to deliver projects
by saying spades in the ground by the next election
and not delivering on that.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean to me, and I want to be really
clear about this. Spades in the ground. Isn't Minister Bishop
there with a shovel digging a whole light We saw
with Tory on the other corner down the end here,
Spades in the ground is some machinery there and some
real action. We've got no chance of that happening.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, look, I mean, well, we can keep on going
over and over again in that regard. The timetable is
where it's at, the Minister of Transport will have something
to say about it. But in the meantime, there is
plenty that has gone on in recent times in the
Wellington region. And you know, like I say, we've made
great progress going north out of Wellington, there's more work
(07:04):
to be done there. There's work been done on the
Patunity to No Wronger well which is going to be
opening this weekend, which is marvelous stuff. And there's work
going on and milling interchange. So it's not that nothing's
happening in the Wellington region. That the timing of the
second tunnel tunnel is something that will be talked through
soon by Shaverrol.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Can I get a commitment live on Wellington Mornings from
you that if labor are in powered at the end
of the year, that that the second Mount Victoria Tunnel
will be an absolute must and will happen.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Well, what concerns me and makes me well, we we're
in support of the second tunnel. The issue is it
sounds like there's some information that the Government has that
we don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Recond is a problem.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well, I think so right, that's why they were so
bullish at the start of the term. And now they're saying, oh,
wait and.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Sad did you know I mean you guys, it was
a plan for you guys. Did you know of something
that could have been could have been a No.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
We're just reading the reading how the government is talking
about this and it makes me think very nervous about
maybe there's something we don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I mean, you're talking to the people you're standing for
Wellington Central North or whatever it's called now, the same seat.
I mean, people talking about this, and people were actually
nervous and it might not go ahead.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Definitely. The infrastructure is something I hear again and again.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Politics Thursday with Paul Goldsmith and I Shavie. I just
want to tell our listeners that Paul Goldsmith, now you know,
I've only met him three or four times, and you
know you probably think he's a pretty straight, lay, straight
sort of guy, sort of a bit boring to be honest,
but he's not. He's quite funny. Yes, it's the head
brakes even Oh so you got a bit that day.
(08:35):
He was quite funny.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I just picked myself back up into my seat.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah he was. He was trying to tell me how
to rub my show. Well, but he was trying to
make jokes. I mean, he's quite a funny guy.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, I'll give you a I went to the Ockham
Book Awards last night and I quoted a poem which
which was by a guy called Eric who talked about
the news and he described it to this an acrid
no a thick, acrid sap that sticks together the days.
(09:06):
I thought that was I thought that was quite a
good line. But anyway, so here we are on the news,
Eric Kennedy, Well you are.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, I've got to tell people because people actually
probably don't know a lot about you because I see
this guy with you know, straight laced guy, you know,
and you know you're a writer. You are, you're a musician,
a very accomplished musician, and you're a writer. So you
actually are quite a clever guy and you're quite funny.
We've found all right, let's move on immigration. What I mean.
Paulsmooney came out and said that it's not on the
(09:35):
top ten list of New Zealand as priorities coming into
an election. Now severe. I took exception to that because
you know, as an open minded Kiwi business person that
loves my country, I think it's got to be in
the top five. I mean, what are your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Well, I'm the child of an immigrant to New Zealand
and I think about my whole family story and see
the what immigrants bring to New Zealand, the contribution my
mother's made to most thousand children that she's taught Shakespeare
to in Southland. So I guess I see immigrants as
(10:15):
being able to make a wonderful contribution to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
There is sometimes disquiet in our community about the change
immigration brings to our community and we do need to
be able to acknowledge that without leading into racism. And
I think that's the really dangerous thing. There is a
small element in our society that do harbor racist views
towards towards migrants. And what really distresses me is when
(10:45):
politicians seek to get ahead in the election by pandering
to that sentiment. That is utterly disgusting. Those comments from
Shane Jones about a butter chicken tsun army is exactly
leading us down that path and New Zealand does not
need that at all.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Can I just quickly ask you, I'm going to go
to pull on this a bit, really quickly ask you,
as a child of an immigrant at school five six,
seven eight, you know, when you from first reme Meats
began school, were you treated any differently?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, maybe a little, not much, because I was in
a small school. Everyone knew each other, They all knew
my mum. She was teaching us.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Paul, Is it in the top ten of people's concerns?
I personally think it is. Going into an election immigration.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well yeah, I mean, look, in the political sense, cost
of living is number one by a country mile, and
then things fluctuate around. You know. In the last election,
law and order was a big issue. Now it's dropped
down and we regard that as a measure of success.
Immigration is always a topic of interest in the sense
that people are interested in maintaining social cohesion. And we
(11:49):
also very much where a nation of migrants depends just
how early you came and the you know, the cultural
vibrancy that we all enjoy in this country is a
feature of that. It's obvious if you look around the
world though, if things, if the population has a sense
(12:09):
that things are not under control, then it becomes a
massive issue and we want to avoid that. It's not
the case in New Zealand, but we want to make
sure that people maintain that level of support that we
have the.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Numbers just by memory, and I just did it last hour.
I think was one hundred and twenty four or one
hundred and thirty four, don't quote me on either. One
of those thousand people arrived into New Zealand last year.
Now the population of Wellington is two hundred and nine thousand,
so it's you know, it's over half of the population
of Wellington arriving into New Zealand in the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Well in global terms, we have very high rates of
ination in New Zealand and we've and I think we've
done a very good job at maintaining a strong sense
of social cohesion and I think that's very important. I mean,
our basic approach to immigration is that, you know, we
get to choose who comes to this country and we
(12:57):
have obviously a focus on people that bring particular skills
that we need, and that's an important function. And yes,
you've got to sort of keep a reasonable level around
the pace and flow because people do worry about access
to public services. They worry about the impact on housing affordability,
and so that's why you've just got to be very
careful how you manage it, and be very thoughtful about
(13:18):
how you manage it, which I think Chris Suction has been.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Would things change under labor Aisha.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
We haven't seen what the government is proposing here with
their resets, so we're going to watch that that carefully.
We will have a balanced immigration policy that recognizes the
important role immigrants play in our economy and society, and
I think that's that's probably all we can say.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I don't know whether you both knew this, but a
little bit of research into this particular topic today. Do
you know there's a million New Zealanders living out of
New Zealand. Twenty percent of our population are not living
in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You're totally right to point that out, neck because I
think one of the things that I find really challenging
about this is so many of our trained young people
are going overseas. Should not be a case of you know,
having I believe it's almost it's nine hundred or is
it seven hundred of our nursing grads can't get jobs
(14:17):
in the public system. And therefore their options are basically
to go overseas or not not have employment here and
then have a sort of recycling of skills from other
parts of the world coming in. Couldn't we offer our
people jobs at home?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well indeed, and you know it fluctuates enormously. The last
time that we managed to reverse the flow across the Tasman,
of course, was in the John Key government, which I
was part of. More often than not, we lose people
to Australia. And so one of the goals of being
a successful government in a successful country is to grad
(14:52):
and environment where people feel so positive about New Zealand
that we have a net and flow of people from
Australia and we managed to achieve that and we can
do it again, and that fundamentally we're all about.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right now, you're into your third year of being in
government and it doesn't feel like that is even close.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, well, no, I mean things that certainly the outflow
is much reduced and we are making progress, but you know,
it's our relative performance against Australia that really matters. And
you know, the economy is not something that you can
flick a switch on and change overnight. But what we've
done is obviously got inflation under control, we've got interest
(15:30):
rates under control, and we're in a very strong position
for growth and February people, you know, highest levels of
business confidence in a very long time. Of course, we've
had another challenge to face with the petrol the diesel
and petrol prices that have gone through the roof recently,
so that's you know, that's held us back. But I've
got every confidence in the next few years New Zealand
(15:51):
will be growing and doing well.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
It's not just that, it's also the need for young
people to feel that they have a future here. So
many we have some of the highest rates of young
people being either unemployed or not in training at the
moment that we've had nearly a decade. I believe there's
lots of young skilled people going to Australia twenty thousand
(16:14):
across the last year, so energy economic opportunities. It's the
fact that they're now being lumped with more tertiary costs.
It's the lack of a sense of positivity.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And I also just throw in police, yes, you know,
because we're losing we're training police and we're losing them
to Australia and they're coming knocking and we seem to
be just okay with that.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, yeah, I mean that's always a julenge though. I mean,
the New Zealand Police Force have very high rates of
hanging on to the police at the moment, are very
low levels of attrition, So that's a measure of success.
So we're very determined to keep training them and holding
on to people the best we can. It is a
fact of life that we Australians have higher wages fundamental
(16:59):
because they have a stronger economy. And one of the
reasons for that is they digged out of us stig
stuff out of the ground. And you know, we struggle
as constantly opposed by labor and the Greens for you know,
actually doing some of that ourselves. So there's a whole
lot of reasons.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Somehow mining policy is why we can't have police paut
Well that's quite.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We've got to make a living.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Can I just bring out about that? A number number
that disturbed me is that do you know that we
have ten thousand police is right at the moment around
ten thousand, ten thousand and something. Do you know five
thousand of that ten thousand of other age between fifty
and sixty five. I mean, and we're losing the younger
ones to Australia. That's the problem, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
And the government promised five hundred new additional well I
suspect that is going to be in the file underbroken
promises by the election.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Just like Winston will tell us, won't he. I mean
you look about let's talk about Winston telling us right,
because he has announced that the years free your university
fees free. The total flop of a policy burgled my
way through. It has been dropped. I mean I thought
(18:08):
it was quite a good idea, very good idea of
yours nationals to drop it to the last year. I
didn't like the idea of it. So it's going. But
is it a broken promise? Paul? I mean, think about this.
Think about me as a university student that's done two years.
You went to university knowing that their last year was
going to be free and then lost no see you
later go home.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well, you know, look, it's a tough business, but we're
you know, we're running a massive deficit as a country
and we've got to have a path back to surplus
otherwise we'll just keep on.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is there no part of you that doesn't think that
this is a broken promise.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
No, no, absolutely, what we're doing is making the tough
decisions that you need to make in a budget. You've
got to remember and I've got four kids, two of them,
as you know, not going to get this funding and that's.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Like paid three hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yeah, well, but of the pool are you well? I mean,
it's not about individual politicians individuals. I mean, come on,
you're a doctor, so you can do it. Was a
tough affair in the medical profession as well. But the
only point I'd make is that what we're dealing with
is a situation where the rest of New Zealand pays
(19:15):
the vast majority of the cost of tertiary education in
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So no, okay, you don't think it's a broken problem.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I think it's a policy that is a complete flop.
And the most remarkable thing is that Chris Hipkins brought
it in has not committed to bringing it back because
they know that it's a complete flop.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Is a policy, was an idea that didn't work? Eisavil done.
I think it's a broken promise. The fact that someone's
entered university has done two years on the basis that
he's got to he or she's got one more year
to pay for him than the last year's free.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, I really feel for those students. You know, they're
probably going to have twelve thousand extra on their debt
compared to what they were expecting. And I would just
say that that policy reduced student debt, meant that students
who were graduating had less debt, more capable of getting
into housing, owning their own home, that sort of that
(20:04):
sort of thing. So to say it's had no outcome
is not true. However, where to.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Be fair, it was three hundred and fifty thousand, three
hundred and fifty million dollars a year. That's a lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, we've spent two billion on it so far
since they brought it, and they promised it would increase
access to Churchill education.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It hasn't.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
It's one of the many complete flops. You had the
key we build the slow dramm down those things that
didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You could have waited a couple of years and help
those ones that had a promise.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, well this year that you're still of course, it's
nearly over so the year. And you know, I don't
forget that if they do borrow for it, it's interest
free and effectively, the people in New Zealand write down
that debt immediately on that day and the dollars up
jetstaral Quantus because they're increasing their numbers of flights across
the they've picked them up, phone up as soon as
(20:53):
they've graduated and say I can't get a job here
over I'm going to Australia. Well but that's a very
negative view and we don't have that negative truth. Zealand
has got a very bright future and that's what we're
focused on.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Growing.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
We've got there's a lot of good things to be
looking at it.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I'm sure they're voting with their feet.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I'm sure there is. But the facts are the facts.
I mean, get Star and Quantits aren't increasing all their
numbers because people are not wanting to go to Australia.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Well yes, but I mean so so, I mean, what's
your solution throw your hands up and cry. I mean
the solution is to do what we can to the economy.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
The solution well also to show some priority for young
people and their plight and your policy prescription. It is
harder that they're out of work.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I need to know from you because we've got to
go on past the news. But I want to know.
I want a yes or no answer. Please please, yes
or no answer? Will labor reinstate it?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I can't see a way to that at the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They're not They're not going to. Chris Hopkins haven't said
they're going to. And by the way, I'm still rather
irritated that we're less than six months from the election
and we've only had one policy from.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
What a lie that's an absolute life or what do
you go?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Because I know there's a lot of things you don't like,
but do you like.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I'm going to thank you for allowing me to have
a five minute broad free general practice visits that label
fun to make sure the six hundred thousand New Zealanders
who can't afford to go to their doctor are able
to access care free civical screening because that is the
only screening program that the users have to pay. Will
(22:28):
make it easier for family doctors to set up in
your town by having access to a low and no
interest cost, I can keep you want me to stop the.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Things that you're going to fund out of this caperal
gains deck.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's your one.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Can I just tell you I never got to finish.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Both of you have told me, well, I know what
you can eard as a doctor, and now you've told
me what Paul urns it. Now. If I don't go
an ad break, I can't earn my little pinons of
the money that I earned. So thank you both for
coming in. Paul Goldsboro and I Savera love you to
have you both in the studio. Can you go back
and have a kick some holes and some walls and
say we want the Mount Victoria Dunnel. Please.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine a m.
Week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said, b A Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know what that means, it's politics Thursday. Today we've
been joined by Paul Goldsmith, Minister for Justice, Arts, Culture
and Heritage, Media and Communications, Public Services and Digitizing Government Treaty,
A White Tanging negotiations and Pacific People's anyone else got
a job in Parliament? Paul Well? Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
One or two? Well, we work hard for our living.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'd love to see your business card isn't two sided?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes? Possibly?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Gosh Ai Scheverral Labor, MP and spokesperson for Health and
Wellington Issues. Good morning morning.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
That lovely to be here cold I Paul, Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Your business card would look a little bit embarrassed. And
you have doctor at the end of your name, so
that's pretty impressive. A.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
You know, thanks, thanks, that makes me feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I just can't believe when I got the list. I wit,
how long is our segment? And it's going to be
all done on your your things, you know. Anyway, Let's
start with the Harbor Bridge, because we've been told this
week that it's going to cost twenty billion dollars and
for the rest of New Zealand has to pay for
your I'm looking at you, Paul, because it's your harbor Bridge,
not ours. And there's no talk about the second Mount
(01:23):
Victoria Tunnel anymore. Where are we at.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well Look, I mean I think these are early days
in terms of a second crossing in Auckland. Ultimately it
is something that we will have to address. Every time
it gets windy in Auckland they shut the harbor bridge
and so I think that's something that's going to have
to be done. But they're a long way away from
making final decisions.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Round but it's going to be made to share.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
They reckon well first steps. There's a long way to
go to actually building it, but yeah, it needs to
be done and that's we've got to have a plan. Likewise,
in Wellington there's a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Of course, We've just.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
We've got work underway going further north on the Expressway,
which is a magnificent piece of roading going north out
of Wellington, and then got the Melling Interchange, huge improvement
and starting the walking and cycling path is going to
be opening along the coast the world. That's yes, that's
very exciting.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So there's plenty. It was still been a great government
that funded that project.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, it's one of those things, these things and come
and waves.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Can you cut back and do you give me a
little bit of an update on my little topic of
the second Mount Victoria Tunnel, because you know your minister
said that there's going to be spades in the ground
by election. I sent too many bulldozers around here lately.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
We have geotech work underway as we speak on that tunnel,
so there is work being done, but you know, the
timing of it is something that the Transport Minister can
talk through. But yeah, I mean, I think it's bindingly
obvious to everybody. We don't have as much money as
we would like, and you know we've got real pressure
(03:04):
on at the moment, so the timings not as fast
as we would like. But you know, there's still work
being done.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
And would it surprise you if I said that, I
don't think it would be called geotechnical in nineteen sixty,
But there was work being done on that second Mount
Victoria Tunnel in nineteen sixty. Now that's a long time ago, eishaver.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
There has been a few missed opportunities over the years,
there's no question about that.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right, I see. I don't get any commitment out
of that at all about the second Mount Victoria tunnel.
I know that Nikola Willis came out the next day
after Chris Bishop said he wanted to look at it
again and he wants them to re evaluate where the
money's going. What's your gut on that.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
That's right. This geotechnical work is not the full project.
It is not spades in the ground and starting building.
This was a major commitment to the people of Wellington
who often spend time in traffic at that bottleneck that
we have around Mount Victoria and the basin. It is
important to this community and indeed the promise was spades
(04:04):
in the ground by the next election. I'm worried that
Chris Bishop is wavering in his commitment to our city
and the project that he promised, and it sounds like
if he's seeking more information, why not let us know
what the issues are. Is it the cost? Is it
because they added on the Terrace tunnel component, which frankly
was incredibly ambitious and I wouldn't be surprised if there
(04:26):
was extra cost there. We need to hear about what
the facts are so we can know if it's worth while.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
I don't like to be unkind, but of course it'd
be nice to know what Labour's view on either think
that you'd be funding a second tunnel?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Would you?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Or would you? We haven't got a single policy yet
apart from the cable begs Dad.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
The second tunnel was part of Labour's transport proposals last election,
so that's why we have stayed on board with this project.
We try to take a bipartisan approach to infrastructure. This
is a commitment your government has made and appears to
be backing away from. So rather than having a chip
at us, why don't you just say what the situation is.
If there's more information city needs.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
To know, and we'll be making it announcements in due course.
But there is geotech work going, yes, I mean things
aren't happening as quite as fast as we would have liked.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
But would it be a major I just want to
get a feel of this. Would this be a major
screw up for your party? If we come to election
and Wellington people see nothing. I know that the whole
concentrations on Auckland from both both Labor and National I'm
not and probably everyone else acting in New Zealand versus
(05:35):
well because of the population base. But would it be
a major slight on Wellington if we don't see spades.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well Look, I mean we want Wellington to succeed. We
want Wellington to do well. It's very important that the
city thrives and grows and has a strong you know,
has a wonderful future. So there's no question around that.
It's just a question of the timing of big, major
transport projects and christ Bishop will have announcements around that
(06:03):
in due course.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
When I knock on doors in Wellington. There are a
group of voters for whom infrastructure in our city is
their primary concern, and it will be a tough situation
for the government when they made put their credibility on
the line in terms of their ability to deliver projects
by saying spades in the ground by the next election
and not delivering on that.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean to me, and I want to be really
clear about this. Spades in the ground. Isn't Minister Bishop
there with a shovel digging a whole light We saw
with Tory on the other corner down the end here,
Spades in the ground is some machinery there and some
real action. We've got no chance of that happening.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, look, I mean, well, we can keep on going
over and over again in that regard. The timetable is
where it's at, the Minister of Transport will have something
to say about it. But in the meantime, there is
plenty that has gone on in recent times in the
Wellington region. And you know, like I say, we've made
great progress going north out of Wellington, there's more work
(07:04):
to be done there. There's work been done on the
Patunity to No Wronger well which is going to be
opening this weekend, which is marvelous stuff. And there's work
going on and milling interchange. So it's not that nothing's
happening in the Wellington region. That the timing of the
second tunnel tunnel is something that will be talked through
soon by Shaverrol.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Can I get a commitment live on Wellington Mornings from
you that if labor are in powered at the end
of the year, that that the second Mount Victoria Tunnel
will be an absolute must and will happen.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Well, what concerns me and makes me well, we we're
in support of the second tunnel. The issue is it
sounds like there's some information that the Government has that
we don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Recond is a problem.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well, I think so right, that's why they were so
bullish at the start of the term. And now they're saying, oh,
wait and.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Sad did you know I mean you guys, it was
a plan for you guys. Did you know of something
that could have been could have been a No.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
We're just reading the reading how the government is talking
about this and it makes me think very nervous about
maybe there's something we don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I mean, you're talking to the people you're standing for
Wellington Central North or whatever it's called now, the same seat.
I mean, people talking about this, and people were actually
nervous and it might not go ahead.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Definitely. The infrastructure is something I hear again and again.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Politics Thursday with Paul Goldsmith and I Shavie. I just
want to tell our listeners that Paul Goldsmith, now you know,
I've only met him three or four times, and you
know you probably think he's a pretty straight, lay, straight
sort of guy, sort of a bit boring to be honest,
but he's not. He's quite funny. Yes, it's the head
brakes even Oh so you got a bit that day.
(08:35):
He was quite funny.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I just picked myself back up into my seat.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah he was. He was trying to tell me how
to rub my show. Well, but he was trying to
make jokes. I mean, he's quite a funny guy.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, I'll give you a I went to the Ockham
Book Awards last night and I quoted a poem which
which was by a guy called Eric who talked about
the news and he described it to this an acrid
no a thick, acrid sap that sticks together the days.
(09:06):
I thought that was I thought that was quite a
good line. But anyway, so here we are on the news,
Eric Kennedy, Well you are.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, I've got to tell people because people actually
probably don't know a lot about you because I see
this guy with you know, straight laced guy, you know,
and you know you're a writer. You are, you're a musician,
a very accomplished musician, and you're a writer. So you
actually are quite a clever guy and you're quite funny.
We've found all right, let's move on immigration. What I mean.
Paulsmooney came out and said that it's not on the
(09:35):
top ten list of New Zealand as priorities coming into
an election. Now severe. I took exception to that because
you know, as an open minded Kiwi business person that
loves my country, I think it's got to be in
the top five. I mean, what are your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Well, I'm the child of an immigrant to New Zealand
and I think about my whole family story and see
the what immigrants bring to New Zealand, the contribution my
mother's made to most thousand children that she's taught Shakespeare
to in Southland. So I guess I see immigrants as
(10:15):
being able to make a wonderful contribution to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
There is sometimes disquiet in our community about the change
immigration brings to our community and we do need to
be able to acknowledge that without leading into racism. And
I think that's the really dangerous thing. There is a
small element in our society that do harbor racist views
towards towards migrants. And what really distresses me is when
(10:45):
politicians seek to get ahead in the election by pandering
to that sentiment. That is utterly disgusting. Those comments from
Shane Jones about a butter chicken tsun army is exactly
leading us down that path and New Zealand does not
need that at all.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Can I just quickly ask you, I'm going to go
to pull on this a bit, really quickly ask you,
as a child of an immigrant at school five six,
seven eight, you know, when you from first reme Meats
began school, were you treated any differently?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, maybe a little, not much, because I was in
a small school. Everyone knew each other, They all knew
my mum. She was teaching us.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Paul, Is it in the top ten of people's concerns?
I personally think it is. Going into an election immigration.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well yeah, I mean, look, in the political sense, cost
of living is number one by a country mile, and
then things fluctuate around. You know. In the last election,
law and order was a big issue. Now it's dropped
down and we regard that as a measure of success.
Immigration is always a topic of interest in the sense
that people are interested in maintaining social cohesion. And we
(11:49):
also very much where a nation of migrants depends just
how early you came and the you know, the cultural
vibrancy that we all enjoy in this country is a
feature of that. It's obvious if you look around the
world though, if things, if the population has a sense
(12:09):
that things are not under control, then it becomes a
massive issue and we want to avoid that. It's not
the case in New Zealand, but we want to make
sure that people maintain that level of support that we
have the.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Numbers just by memory, and I just did it last hour.
I think was one hundred and twenty four or one
hundred and thirty four, don't quote me on either. One
of those thousand people arrived into New Zealand last year.
Now the population of Wellington is two hundred and nine thousand,
so it's you know, it's over half of the population
of Wellington arriving into New Zealand in the last year.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Well in global terms, we have very high rates of
ination in New Zealand and we've and I think we've
done a very good job at maintaining a strong sense
of social cohesion and I think that's very important. I mean,
our basic approach to immigration is that, you know, we
get to choose who comes to this country and we
(12:57):
have obviously a focus on people that bring particular skills
that we need, and that's an important function. And yes,
you've got to sort of keep a reasonable level around
the pace and flow because people do worry about access
to public services. They worry about the impact on housing affordability,
and so that's why you've just got to be very
careful how you manage it, and be very thoughtful about
(13:18):
how you manage it, which I think Chris Suction has been.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Would things change under labor Aisha.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
We haven't seen what the government is proposing here with
their resets, so we're going to watch that that carefully.
We will have a balanced immigration policy that recognizes the
important role immigrants play in our economy and society, and
I think that's that's probably all we can say.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I don't know whether you both knew this, but a
little bit of research into this particular topic today. Do
you know there's a million New Zealanders living out of
New Zealand. Twenty percent of our population are not living
in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You're totally right to point that out, neck because I
think one of the things that I find really challenging
about this is so many of our trained young people
are going overseas. Should not be a case of you know,
having I believe it's almost it's nine hundred or is
it seven hundred of our nursing grads can't get jobs
(14:17):
in the public system. And therefore their options are basically
to go overseas or not not have employment here and
then have a sort of recycling of skills from other
parts of the world coming in. Couldn't we offer our
people jobs at home?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well indeed, and you know it fluctuates enormously. The last
time that we managed to reverse the flow across the Tasman,
of course, was in the John Key government, which I
was part of. More often than not, we lose people
to Australia. And so one of the goals of being
a successful government in a successful country is to grad
(14:52):
and environment where people feel so positive about New Zealand
that we have a net and flow of people from
Australia and we managed to achieve that and we can
do it again, and that fundamentally we're all about.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right now, you're into your third year of being in
government and it doesn't feel like that is even close.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, well, no, I mean things that certainly the outflow
is much reduced and we are making progress, but you know,
it's our relative performance against Australia that really matters. And
you know, the economy is not something that you can
flick a switch on and change overnight. But what we've
done is obviously got inflation under control, we've got interest
(15:30):
rates under control, and we're in a very strong position
for growth and February people, you know, highest levels of
business confidence in a very long time. Of course, we've
had another challenge to face with the petrol the diesel
and petrol prices that have gone through the roof recently,
so that's you know, that's held us back. But I've
got every confidence in the next few years New Zealand
(15:51):
will be growing and doing well.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
It's not just that, it's also the need for young
people to feel that they have a future here. So
many we have some of the highest rates of young
people being either unemployed or not in training at the
moment that we've had nearly a decade. I believe there's
lots of young skilled people going to Australia twenty thousand
(16:14):
across the last year, so energy economic opportunities. It's the
fact that they're now being lumped with more tertiary costs.
It's the lack of a sense of positivity.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And I also just throw in police, yes, you know,
because we're losing we're training police and we're losing them
to Australia and they're coming knocking and we seem to
be just okay with that.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, yeah, I mean that's always a julenge though. I mean,
the New Zealand Police Force have very high rates of
hanging on to the police at the moment, are very
low levels of attrition, So that's a measure of success.
So we're very determined to keep training them and holding
on to people the best we can. It is a
fact of life that we Australians have higher wages fundamental
(16:59):
because they have a stronger economy. And one of the
reasons for that is they digged out of us stig
stuff out of the ground. And you know, we struggle
as constantly opposed by labor and the Greens for you know,
actually doing some of that ourselves. So there's a whole
lot of reasons.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Somehow mining policy is why we can't have police paut
Well that's quite.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We've got to make a living.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Can I just bring out about that? A number number
that disturbed me is that do you know that we
have ten thousand police is right at the moment around
ten thousand, ten thousand and something. Do you know five
thousand of that ten thousand of other age between fifty
and sixty five. I mean, and we're losing the younger
ones to Australia. That's the problem, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
And the government promised five hundred new additional well I
suspect that is going to be in the file underbroken
promises by the election.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Just like Winston will tell us, won't he. I mean
you look about let's talk about Winston telling us right,
because he has announced that the years free your university
fees free. The total flop of a policy burgled my
way through. It has been dropped. I mean I thought
(18:08):
it was quite a good idea, very good idea of
yours nationals to drop it to the last year. I
didn't like the idea of it. So it's going. But
is it a broken promise? Paul? I mean, think about this.
Think about me as a university student that's done two years.
You went to university knowing that their last year was
going to be free and then lost no see you
later go home.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well, you know, look, it's a tough business, but we're
you know, we're running a massive deficit as a country
and we've got to have a path back to surplus
otherwise we'll just keep on.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is there no part of you that doesn't think that
this is a broken promise.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
No, no, absolutely, what we're doing is making the tough
decisions that you need to make in a budget. You've
got to remember and I've got four kids, two of them,
as you know, not going to get this funding and that's.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Like paid three hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yeah, well, but of the pool are you well? I mean,
it's not about individual politicians individuals. I mean, come on,
you're a doctor, so you can do it. Was a
tough affair in the medical profession as well. But the
only point I'd make is that what we're dealing with
is a situation where the rest of New Zealand pays
(19:15):
the vast majority of the cost of tertiary education in
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So no, okay, you don't think it's a broken problem.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I think it's a policy that is a complete flop.
And the most remarkable thing is that Chris Hipkins brought
it in has not committed to bringing it back because
they know that it's a complete flop.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Is a policy, was an idea that didn't work? Eisavil done.
I think it's a broken promise. The fact that someone's
entered university has done two years on the basis that
he's got to he or she's got one more year
to pay for him than the last year's free.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, I really feel for those students. You know, they're
probably going to have twelve thousand extra on their debt
compared to what they were expecting. And I would just
say that that policy reduced student debt, meant that students
who were graduating had less debt, more capable of getting
into housing, owning their own home, that sort of that
(20:04):
sort of thing. So to say it's had no outcome
is not true. However, where to.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Be fair, it was three hundred and fifty thousand, three
hundred and fifty million dollars a year. That's a lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, we've spent two billion on it so far
since they brought it, and they promised it would increase
access to Churchill education.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It hasn't.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
It's one of the many complete flops. You had the
key we build the slow dramm down those things that
didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You could have waited a couple of years and help
those ones that had a promise.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, well this year that you're still of course, it's
nearly over so the year. And you know, I don't
forget that if they do borrow for it, it's interest
free and effectively, the people in New Zealand write down
that debt immediately on that day and the dollars up
jetstaral Quantus because they're increasing their numbers of flights across
the they've picked them up, phone up as soon as
(20:53):
they've graduated and say I can't get a job here
over I'm going to Australia. Well but that's a very
negative view and we don't have that negative truth. Zealand
has got a very bright future and that's what we're
focused on.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Growing.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
We've got there's a lot of good things to be
looking at it.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I'm sure they're voting with their feet.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I'm sure there is. But the facts are the facts.
I mean, get Star and Quantits aren't increasing all their
numbers because people are not wanting to go to Australia.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Well yes, but I mean so so, I mean, what's
your solution throw your hands up and cry. I mean
the solution is to do what we can to the economy.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
The solution well also to show some priority for young
people and their plight and your policy prescription. It is
harder that they're out of work.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I need to know from you because we've got to
go on past the news. But I want to know.
I want a yes or no answer. Please please, yes
or no answer? Will labor reinstate it?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I can't see a way to that at the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They're not They're not going to. Chris Hopkins haven't said
they're going to. And by the way, I'm still rather
irritated that we're less than six months from the election
and we've only had one policy from.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
What a lie that's an absolute life or what do
you go?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Because I know there's a lot of things you don't like,
but do you like.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I'm going to thank you for allowing me to have
a five minute broad free general practice visits that label
fun to make sure the six hundred thousand New Zealanders
who can't afford to go to their doctor are able
to access care free civical screening because that is the
only screening program that the users have to pay. Will
(22:28):
make it easier for family doctors to set up in
your town by having access to a low and no
interest cost, I can keep you want me to stop the.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Things that you're going to fund out of this caperal
gains deck.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's your one.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Can I just tell you I never got to finish.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Both of you have told me, well, I know what
you can eard as a doctor, and now you've told
me what Paul urns it. Now. If I don't go
an ad break, I can't earn my little pinons of
the money that I earned. So thank you both for
coming in. Paul Goldsboro and I Savera love you to
have you both in the studio. Can you go back
and have a kick some holes and some walls and
say we want the Mount Victoria Dunnel. Please.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine a m.
Week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Bleep! with Ana Navarro
Fear thrives in silence and confusion. Ana Navarro rejects both. Her voice is an antidote to today’s chaos. Her new podcast, Bleep! with Ana Navarro, takes on today’s most pressing issues with the voices most connected to it: decision-makers, political leaders, cultural shapers, and people on the frontlines of the story. The conversations acknowledge the emotions we all feel—despair, sadness, fear— but emerge with knowledge, perspective, and hope. The belief is simple: fearless dialogue can transform fear into courage, and courage into change. When fear dominates the headlines, this show digs deeper. Because information, debate, and conversation don’t just ease fear, they give us power to shape the future.
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.