July 1, 2026 • 20 mins
It's time for our Politics Panel and this week Nick Mills is joined by Labour MP Ayesha Verrall and National MP for Otaki Tim Costley.
Starting with Minister Casey Costello's statement that she is considering a review on excise tax of tobacco. We hear what Verrall and Costley think of this stance and how do we address the growth of the illicit tobacco trade.
The death of a man who spent 9 hours in the Waikato Hospital Emergency Department has bought attention to ED wait times. How are the politicians working to stop this tragedy from ever happening again?
And the big reveal earlier in the week that MSD had a metric for staff of emergency housing numbers, potentially incentivising staff to deny the support. Plus, the panel discuss regulating politicians on social media.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back politics Thursday. We have in the studio with
us Hi Shaveril.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Running Mack.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
How are you yeah feeling God for getting some fresh
air briefly allowed out of Parliament while it's sitting under urgency.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Explain to our listeners how tough it is, because I mean,
you've come in here and you've just explained to me
you've had a pretty tough couple of days.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
They're always long days, so starting at nine, sometimes Select
Committee start at eight and then you go through to
midnight and we'll be doing that through to Saturday. I
have to say it doesn't improve the quality of the
debate when everyone's operating and everyone's tired. But that why
that doesn't improve the quality of the bills?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Is that why the Prime Minister was a bit fired up?
But yelly last yesterday, wasn't he.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Well? I think the Prime Minister is under pressure because
he's been shown to be able to touch on housing.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Okay, yeah uh o, tacky MP. Tim Costly is coming
to us from our beehive studio.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Good morning, Tim, Good morning, sir, very good to be
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Are you doing the late nights as well?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, midnight, we're in an eight every morning. Yeah,
it's going to get stuff done.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Man.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
We're a busy government. We're fixing the basics. We're built
in the future.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, let's start clearly, we have an illegal tobacco problem.
We saw a one point three million illegal cigarette sees
and more than two million tobacco tax was evaded. Casey
Costello said this morning on Early Edition with Ryan that
there's potential to potentially she could decrease xcise tax on tobacco. Tim,
(01:56):
I'll start with you on this. This to me sounds ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Yeah, and there's two issues, right, so one yeah, and
let me be clear, we haven't agreed to decrease this.
Every year this comes up, just like it did for alcohol.
With alcohol wins ones went through about a month ago.
It was just before a few days now we've got
the annual review of excise for tobacco, which certainly national
(02:21):
having agreed as part of the College and government to
any kind of reduction. We want to see less people smoking.
But the illegal issue that you talk about, obviously they're
not paying excise, right, So that's a separate issue that
customs are a big part of dealing with and stopping
that illegal tobacco coming in. We want to see less
people smoking. We want to see people, you know, moving
(02:42):
away from that into healthy lifestyles.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Tim, can you be clear because I listened to Costello's
interview with Ryan Bridge earlier, she seemed to imply that
Cabinet agreed for her to go off and review the
tobacco X size. So while a final decision hasn't been made,
has cabinet agreed that she's allowed to go off and
redo how these decisions are made?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Well, look, I'm not part of cabinet you have, Tom,
I haven't heard that interview. But this is an annual thing.
So every year we review the level.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
That yes, But what's not what it's not done every
year is that you give case. It is not the
case that every year there is a decision to go
off and design a new way of charging the tobacco excise.
We already know that this minister in New Zealand first
have pushed a tax cut for heated tobacco companies through
(03:32):
and now it appears that she has managed to convince
Cabinet that she should be allowed to go off and
design another tax cut for tobacco companies. That would seem
to be another terrible backward step for our smoke free goals,
but also just an egregious misuse of her position in
government to be doing these endless favors for the tobacco industry.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, so look, I haven't seen that, and maybe you
have some information that I haven't seen, But we haven't
agreed to reduce any kind of tax excise or give
any incentives to the tobacco industry.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
But the fact that this discussion is going.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
On is it happens every year though that night, But this.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Is a little bit different right now, because you know,
one hand does celebrating arrests and seizure and the next
are saying, well, maybe the best way to sort this
problem out is actually by bringing the price of cigarettes down.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Now, the best way to sort this out is to
have less people smoking, to see people move off smoking
and off vaping. Vaping's only any good if it's getting
off cigarettes, says, a transition to not smoking at all.
That's the way that we sort this out. And we
are firmly committed to our smoke free goals and It's
something I personally would have loved to see. I'd love
to see no one smoking in New Zealand. That would
be the best outcome.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, Locktam, I'm glad and also should add on the
House Select Committee. I noticed that the National members also
want to support the smoke free goal. But you've got
to stop Winston Peters and Casey Costello running rings around you.
They are positioning themselves for coalition agreements again where they
get to design tobacco right, tobacco favors, favors for the
(05:10):
tobacco industry our into our laws. You've got to shut
this down. Why on earth did Cabinet give her permission
to go off and redesign tobacco excise.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah, well, if you want to support the National Party
position on smoke free over New Zealand, you.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Would support your own stated position.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Well, I do support my own position. I would encourage
everyone to vote for National on November the seventh Party
vote National, not New Zealand First, not Act, no one
else party, vote for National and then we can go
and do everything the way that we would like to know,
because you have to.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Outcome, you'll be in coalition with this clown there doing
for the tobacco industry, whereas the Labor Party has had
a pretty has had a solid, in fact, world leading
record on tobacco control.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And we are we were winning the war on smoking.
I don't think there's any question about that.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I want to move on. Let's move on.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
A man died after waiting nine hours in a Wykato hospital.
Ed Now, Tom, I don't know whether you've seen the story.
I've seen it play out, We've talked about it on
the show. I've seen it on two nights on the
One News. This is a horrific, horrific, sad story. And
Simon Brown says, with a plane face, well, we'll have
(06:24):
an inquiry, we'll look at it.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
This is a heartbreaking story. Look, Jess, I remember sitting
in hospital with my dad when he died, and I
remember what that was like. Let alone what this family
are going through in the circumstances. It is an awful
thing for any family to go through. I don't wish
that on anybody. And I can tell you I was
with the Health minister last night. He doesn't sit there
(06:50):
with a plane face and brush this off. He absolutely
feeling for that family. We all are and right now
that is obviously everyone's focus is the first people that
were going to want any kind of answers to the family.
It's the family I'm thinking of.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is there's a situation unfolding right throughout New Zealand. We
have been promised that it's going to be sorted, Sime
and Brown was the answer. We are not seeing anything
that actually even resembles an improvement. In fact, when we
hear stories like that, we as New Zealanders are concerned
that hospitals are no longer the place to save us.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
No, no, I don't think that's fair. I don't think
that's in fact, it's not even close to true. Look
any other week, I would sit here and I could
give you the numbers on Ed's I could give you
the specific numbers on wake hereter Ed and show you
the demonstrable improvement that has happened under our government. But
you know, I don't know if today Look, if you
push me, oh sure, I'll give them to you. But
but I don't know if today is the day for that.
(07:51):
Today is surely our thoughts are with the family. And yes,
I'm really confident in the workout government is doing that,
Simmy and Brown is doing as Health Minister, the improvements
we're seeing in Edie wait times are very clear, particularly
since that health targets came back. That legislation just passed
this morning. No thanks to the opposition, it is making
a tangible difference.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, you try, and you try and explain that to
the family right now, and you know what, next week
it'll be another family. Ai Shaviral, we briefly off air
talked about the situation and the sadness of it.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I know you wouldn't have seen the six o'clock News
when a couple of people that were in the waiting
room we're talking about it. And to be fair to you, Tim,
you wouldn't have either because you have been in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
This is a horrific horror story.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Indeed, it is Nick. And we don't know the name
of the excuse me, we don't know the name of
the gentleman who passed away, but we can you know
he's a fellow key, We like us and our condolences
to his family. They must be hurting right now. I
did catch that segment on the six o'clock news in
the in the dinner break in Parliament last night, and
(08:59):
it reminded me of the arrest that I attended when
I was a medical registrar in the whole hospital, where
people had unexplained to deaths. In hospitals, it's extremely distressing
for both the staff but also the bystanders that were there,
and you could see that on the faces of those
two women who spoke to the two one used last
(09:21):
last night. What is difficult about accepting the government's reassurances
is that they have not met the milestones for their targets,
and they have woodn't law targets for sure, but they
haven't staffed the hospital properly. Nurses in that department and
(09:41):
emergency departments up and down the country have been saying
they have been understaffed four months. If you look across
the Health New Zealand stats, you'll see that nursing hiring
has gone right down over the last two years. And
if you talk to any doctor or nurse in Health
New Zealand throughout the country, they'll say if one of
their colleagues leaves, they're not automatically allowed to fill the vacancy.
(10:03):
That decision is made elsewhere, not even in the hospital.
It's centralized somewhere off and this is another change the
government brought in somewhere off in a regional office. The
government has broken its promise to make this better. They
broke their promise that they wouldn't try frontline cuts. In fact,
they had one hundred and seventeen jobs on the chopping
block at the beginning of this week. They've only just
(10:24):
reversed that. The government says one thing about caring about
this issue, but actually is not resourcing these departments to
provide the service they need to provide.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Would just quickly too to wool Simey and Brown resign
if he can't make those commitments to the time factors
that he's promised.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Well, let's have a look at them, and let's just
fact check what eishever were saying. Because there are more
than two thousand extra nurses employed by health en Z
now then they were at their election. There are more
than nine hundred extra doctors employed now than they were
at their election.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Rate left as that growth rate is well down on
what it needs to bet It needs to be about
three or four percent and it's about one percent.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Okay, so we're all agreeing that, No, you just agreed
with me that there are more than their We're back
at the election. Let's look at the ed Way time
back when Aisha was the Health minister. When Aisha was
the Health minister, only one out of two patients at
wykter ed got seen within six hours, only half of them.
It was outrageous. It is now improved by about fifteen
(11:24):
it's about fifteen percent. Mir it's at sixty six point
five percent. There's more work to do, of course there
is across the country. We see the same trend. When
National left office in twenty seventeen, ninety percent of patients
got through in six hours after Labor left and got
rid of the health target sixty seven point five percent.
Now it's back up to about three quarters. There's more
work to do, so of course we're not there yet.
Of course we want to keep going. But it's really
(11:46):
easy to come out and criticize now and go, oh, well,
it's not one hundred percent. You'll always find the one
person to point to. There are thousands and thousands more
people getting the treatment they need and the time they
need it because of the work at SIMI and Brown
and our National government have done well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If you can look at this week and think that
it's been a successful week, we've all got a problem
and the numbers M No.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
You don't get to go there, Nick. I was very
clear at the start. I said, let's just make this
about the family. I just come out swinging saying it's
all because this is a terrible government. So I'm giving
you the counterfectual. No one is suggesting this isn't a
terrible week. This is a heartbreaking week for that family.
That is the fundamental thing I said over and over
again at the start. No one is denying that, and
no one is trying to push that aside. But if
(12:31):
you want to talk facts and figures, like Aisha has
claimed to do, then I'm happy to have that discussion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean the facts, the facts and figures. For me,
putting it really simplistically, is a fifty year old man
died when he went to hospital to try and get
to try and get help. That's the facts. Take a
short break, and no one can argue with those facts.
And the nine hour waits, no one can argue with
those facts. Aishavera on Tim Costly, I'm just going to
(12:57):
reply to Tim's text. He's sorry, Phil's text she said,
He's right, Nick, it's a week to support the family.
Wait until next week for the whole story to come
out and then talk about it. Cheers Phil, Phil. If
I was that family member, I want people kicking doors down,
bashing and yelling and screaming right now. I don't care
if that was my family member that I just lost.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I want.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I don't want the ink to go dry on this one.
I'm sorry. That's I mean, that's We've got different opinions.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
On that right.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
MSD has come under fire this week after they reveal
a measure of staff performance was decreasing those in emergency accommodation.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So that was a big tick.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And if you didn't reduce the numbers in your control
of emergency accommodation, there was you know, some clawback. You
might be having a meeting with your leader, your team leader.
It was a downer. What did you actually think when
you read the story, Eihaverra, if.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You're in a housing emergency you should get emergency housing.
That you should get the housing because you need it,
not because someone got a performance target that's pushing them
making them think, oh, I might not be able to
keep my job unless I don't let this person into
emergency housing. These are entitlements for services provided by the
(14:17):
New Zealand government, and it's totally inappropriate that the staff
are being manipulated so as not to give them out.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Tim, what were your thoughts when you saw this?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Well, look, I wasn't aware of it. Obviously it's an
operational thing, so it's you know, so I look, I
think there's two issues. One, you know, what was there
a consequence? And is it about stopping people that needed
actually accessing it. I think what they're saying is they
want to work in the same direction our government wants
to work, which is to see less people needing emergency shelter,
(14:51):
more people being moved into good quality, warm, dry homes,
not being packed up in motels. We've seen tremendous success
over the last two and a half years of moving
children and families out of those emergency hotels and into
better quality housing, and I think that's something we should
all be tomorring Tim.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Surely it shouldn't be a requirement of your job to
stop people that absolutely need somewhere to live to be
able to put them in a place that would be
a tick. Surely that's not I know it's only one
of eleven, but surely that shouldn't even be.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
There, so I agree. If people have nowhere to live,
of course we want to help them find somewhere to live.
What is good to see though, is that those numbers
are decreasing rapidly. You know, if you look at the
numbers at the last twenty three census, about the time
of the election, about five thousand people without shelter. The
latest numbers we have from last year are about twelve hundred.
You know, the number of families living in that immency
(15:47):
accommodation is dropped by eighty five percent. This is good progress.
We want to keep doing that. No one is saying
if someone needs shelter, they shouldn't get at. What we're
saying is we want to see people moved out of
those sort of damn horrible motiles which are not a
great place to have your family packed up. We want
to see them move into decent housing, and we're investing
it into the kind of housing that families like. That.
That's with our direction of travel and focus is right.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's move on social media. Now, you're a big social
media guy, Tim, You do very well with social media,
although I haven't seen a lot lately. It's the Prime
Minister told you to back back while we get close
to election.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Is he put off by you?
Speaker 5 (16:22):
No, he loves it. He loves it. He's a few
of them.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I was just saying to Grace before. I haven't seen
him on social media for a while, so I wonder
whether he's been told to back off.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
No, I don't even know if I'm allowed to let
you in on a week secret. But it might be
that I've been encouraged in the other direction. Nick encouraged
in the other direction.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, I'm trying to work that one out.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
But Hannah, well, I'm not being told to back off.
I can definitively tell you that Permanent has only made
very encouraging my socialist.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Okay, cool, and I like it as well, Hannah Raugh.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My p Clark has been caught out over telling Porky's
on social media over her credit for policies, one of
them aishaviral. I found really abhorrent because we both me
and you understand the whole thing about breast cancer and
Maori people and you know far now and stand up
and say that she's been actually helping policies when she hasn't.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I mean, what did your thought when you saw that?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Look? She appears to have been caught out, and she
needs to she needs to explain what's gone on here.
I don't have any insight into it, but in general,
if you're caught out, you should own it and come
come clean.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Should there be rules by the speaker to control social
media the same as it is for media. Shouldn't there
be the same rules all around parliament and everything to
do with parliament.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Only to the extent of parliament. I think you know
there are rules about I can't go and take a
comment someone made in the house and use it out
of context on social media. But I don't think you
want to speak out micromn Ege in your life. Look
when I'm talking to my kids, I say social media
is not real life. The things you see on there,
that the expectations of demands that you might think what
is normal isn't. So don't buy into that. But when
(18:04):
I'm talking to people about what to put on social media,
you've got to be doing the work in the background.
You can't go and put stuff because you will get
caught out. You've got the story to tell. And I
see some candidates that just go and prolifically live on
social media. Sha everyone else's posts claim all sorts of
thing on the work in real life?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Don't you want people leading up to the election. Don't
you want people when you go out with your social
media actually trusting that what you're saying is correct rather
than than not trusting. And surely there should be some
rules to prevent you telling minci pies.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Well, well, there are rules that should apply to MPs
with that are doing that on social media, and you
know there are norms and expectations every time someone like
me stands up and speaks with someone that's running for
an election, the public should hold them to account. Media
should do what you're doing now, which is asked the
questions about it point out if people are just blatantly
making stuff up. But I don't think you want the
(18:57):
speaker writing rules about who can say what, because then
who's going to arbitrate and judge that and decide of
what you said in that social media? You know, do
you really want the government inspecting every aspect of your life?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't know, you see, you see, I'm fortunate that
I've spent a bit of time with both you and Asha,
and I share and I trust you both. If I
saw something that you put on social media. I would
trust you that it's trust in you that it was
a correct fact, and same with you. I should, But
you know, does that not concern you? I should that
that we that we can actually get away with that.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Well as as term just said, I think you're doing
your job by drawing attention to something where it appears
standards haven't haven't been upheld. So I guess that's the
system working in a sense. We can't be too strict
on these things, otherwise powers would be used to you know,
if you go the speaker, powers to say determine what
(19:50):
we could say on social media, those could be abused too.
So you think the system is probably all right.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I well, maybe maybe if you're a politician and you're
court lying, there should be something that you get reprimanded
by something like that so that we can trust our politicians.
It's a little bit more great to have you both
Aischeverral in the studio and Tim Costley from our studio
in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Keep up the good work, both of you.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Tim, get the camera back out, get back on the streets,
get the camera back on.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You do a great job.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Something just for you. I'll find something just for you.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Nick, I see that, I see that a local place
of yours got to mention.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
And that allan from fifty to fifty. Oh so good,
isn't it. It's great to see and she is a
fantastic local chef. She's got a great background overseas as well.
And it's great to see fifty to fifty on the
mission unless it's in one more great move for our
government fixing the basics. And Billy, you.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Forgot to mention another one in town that someone else
has too. By the way, by gosh, everyone forgets about.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Sorry, sorry, Nick, Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back politics Thursday. We have in the studio with
us Hi Shaveril.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Good morning, Running Mack.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
How are you yeah feeling God for getting some fresh
air briefly allowed out of Parliament while it's sitting under urgency.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Explain to our listeners how tough it is, because I mean,
you've come in here and you've just explained to me
you've had a pretty tough couple of days.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
They're always long days, so starting at nine, sometimes Select
Committee start at eight and then you go through to
midnight and we'll be doing that through to Saturday. I
have to say it doesn't improve the quality of the
debate when everyone's operating and everyone's tired. But that why
that doesn't improve the quality of the bills?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Is that why the Prime Minister was a bit fired up?
But yelly last yesterday, wasn't he.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Well? I think the Prime Minister is under pressure because
he's been shown to be able to touch on housing.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Okay, yeah uh o, tacky MP. Tim Costly is coming
to us from our beehive studio.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Good morning, Tim, Good morning, sir, very good to be
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Are you doing the late nights as well?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, midnight, we're in an eight every morning. Yeah,
it's going to get stuff done.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Man.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
We're a busy government. We're fixing the basics. We're built
in the future.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh, let's start clearly, we have an illegal tobacco problem.
We saw a one point three million illegal cigarette sees
and more than two million tobacco tax was evaded. Casey
Costello said this morning on Early Edition with Ryan that
there's potential to potentially she could decrease xcise tax on tobacco. Tim,
(01:56):
I'll start with you on this. This to me sounds ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Yeah, and there's two issues, right, so one yeah, and
let me be clear, we haven't agreed to decrease this.
Every year this comes up, just like it did for alcohol.
With alcohol wins ones went through about a month ago.
It was just before a few days now we've got
the annual review of excise for tobacco, which certainly national
(02:21):
having agreed as part of the College and government to
any kind of reduction. We want to see less people smoking.
But the illegal issue that you talk about, obviously they're
not paying excise, right, So that's a separate issue that
customs are a big part of dealing with and stopping
that illegal tobacco coming in. We want to see less
people smoking. We want to see people, you know, moving
(02:42):
away from that into healthy lifestyles.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Tim, can you be clear because I listened to Costello's
interview with Ryan Bridge earlier, she seemed to imply that
Cabinet agreed for her to go off and review the
tobacco X size. So while a final decision hasn't been made,
has cabinet agreed that she's allowed to go off and
redo how these decisions are made?
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Well, look, I'm not part of cabinet you have, Tom,
I haven't heard that interview. But this is an annual thing.
So every year we review the level.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
That yes, But what's not what it's not done every
year is that you give case. It is not the
case that every year there is a decision to go
off and design a new way of charging the tobacco excise.
We already know that this minister in New Zealand first
have pushed a tax cut for heated tobacco companies through
(03:32):
and now it appears that she has managed to convince
Cabinet that she should be allowed to go off and
design another tax cut for tobacco companies. That would seem
to be another terrible backward step for our smoke free goals,
but also just an egregious misuse of her position in
government to be doing these endless favors for the tobacco industry.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, so look, I haven't seen that, and maybe you
have some information that I haven't seen, But we haven't
agreed to reduce any kind of tax excise or give
any incentives to the tobacco industry.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
But the fact that this discussion is going.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
On is it happens every year though that night, But this.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Is a little bit different right now, because you know,
one hand does celebrating arrests and seizure and the next
are saying, well, maybe the best way to sort this
problem out is actually by bringing the price of cigarettes down.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Now, the best way to sort this out is to
have less people smoking, to see people move off smoking
and off vaping. Vaping's only any good if it's getting
off cigarettes, says, a transition to not smoking at all.
That's the way that we sort this out. And we
are firmly committed to our smoke free goals and It's
something I personally would have loved to see. I'd love
to see no one smoking in New Zealand. That would
be the best outcome.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, Locktam, I'm glad and also should add on the
House Select Committee. I noticed that the National members also
want to support the smoke free goal. But you've got
to stop Winston Peters and Casey Costello running rings around you.
They are positioning themselves for coalition agreements again where they
get to design tobacco right, tobacco favors, favors for the
(05:10):
tobacco industry our into our laws. You've got to shut
this down. Why on earth did Cabinet give her permission
to go off and redesign tobacco excise.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah, well, if you want to support the National Party
position on smoke free over New Zealand, you.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Would support your own stated position.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Well, I do support my own position. I would encourage
everyone to vote for National on November the seventh Party
vote National, not New Zealand First, not Act, no one
else party, vote for National and then we can go
and do everything the way that we would like to know,
because you have to.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Outcome, you'll be in coalition with this clown there doing
for the tobacco industry, whereas the Labor Party has had
a pretty has had a solid, in fact, world leading
record on tobacco control.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And we are we were winning the war on smoking.
I don't think there's any question about that.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I want to move on. Let's move on.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
A man died after waiting nine hours in a Wykato hospital.
Ed Now, Tom, I don't know whether you've seen the story.
I've seen it play out, We've talked about it on
the show. I've seen it on two nights on the
One News. This is a horrific, horrific, sad story. And
Simon Brown says, with a plane face, well, we'll have
(06:24):
an inquiry, we'll look at it.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
This is a heartbreaking story. Look, Jess, I remember sitting
in hospital with my dad when he died, and I
remember what that was like. Let alone what this family
are going through in the circumstances. It is an awful
thing for any family to go through. I don't wish
that on anybody. And I can tell you I was
with the Health minister last night. He doesn't sit there
(06:50):
with a plane face and brush this off. He absolutely
feeling for that family. We all are and right now
that is obviously everyone's focus is the first people that
were going to want any kind of answers to the family.
It's the family I'm thinking of.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is there's a situation unfolding right throughout New Zealand. We
have been promised that it's going to be sorted, Sime
and Brown was the answer. We are not seeing anything
that actually even resembles an improvement. In fact, when we
hear stories like that, we as New Zealanders are concerned
that hospitals are no longer the place to save us.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
No, no, I don't think that's fair. I don't think
that's in fact, it's not even close to true. Look
any other week, I would sit here and I could
give you the numbers on Ed's I could give you
the specific numbers on wake hereter Ed and show you
the demonstrable improvement that has happened under our government. But
you know, I don't know if today Look, if you
push me, oh sure, I'll give them to you. But
but I don't know if today is the day for that.
(07:51):
Today is surely our thoughts are with the family. And yes,
I'm really confident in the workout government is doing that,
Simmy and Brown is doing as Health Minister, the improvements
we're seeing in Edie wait times are very clear, particularly
since that health targets came back. That legislation just passed
this morning. No thanks to the opposition, it is making
a tangible difference.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, you try, and you try and explain that to
the family right now, and you know what, next week
it'll be another family. Ai Shaviral, we briefly off air
talked about the situation and the sadness of it.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I know you wouldn't have seen the six o'clock News
when a couple of people that were in the waiting
room we're talking about it. And to be fair to you, Tim,
you wouldn't have either because you have been in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
This is a horrific horror story.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Indeed, it is Nick. And we don't know the name
of the excuse me, we don't know the name of
the gentleman who passed away, but we can you know
he's a fellow key, We like us and our condolences
to his family. They must be hurting right now. I
did catch that segment on the six o'clock news in
the in the dinner break in Parliament last night, and
(08:59):
it reminded me of the arrest that I attended when
I was a medical registrar in the whole hospital, where
people had unexplained to deaths. In hospitals, it's extremely distressing
for both the staff but also the bystanders that were there,
and you could see that on the faces of those
two women who spoke to the two one used last
(09:21):
last night. What is difficult about accepting the government's reassurances
is that they have not met the milestones for their targets,
and they have woodn't law targets for sure, but they
haven't staffed the hospital properly. Nurses in that department and
(09:41):
emergency departments up and down the country have been saying
they have been understaffed four months. If you look across
the Health New Zealand stats, you'll see that nursing hiring
has gone right down over the last two years. And
if you talk to any doctor or nurse in Health
New Zealand throughout the country, they'll say if one of
their colleagues leaves, they're not automatically allowed to fill the vacancy.
(10:03):
That decision is made elsewhere, not even in the hospital.
It's centralized somewhere off and this is another change the
government brought in somewhere off in a regional office. The
government has broken its promise to make this better. They
broke their promise that they wouldn't try frontline cuts. In fact,
they had one hundred and seventeen jobs on the chopping
block at the beginning of this week. They've only just
(10:24):
reversed that. The government says one thing about caring about
this issue, but actually is not resourcing these departments to
provide the service they need to provide.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Would just quickly too to wool Simey and Brown resign
if he can't make those commitments to the time factors
that he's promised.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Well, let's have a look at them, and let's just
fact check what eishever were saying. Because there are more
than two thousand extra nurses employed by health en Z
now then they were at their election. There are more
than nine hundred extra doctors employed now than they were
at their election.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Rate left as that growth rate is well down on
what it needs to bet It needs to be about
three or four percent and it's about one percent.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
Okay, so we're all agreeing that, No, you just agreed
with me that there are more than their We're back
at the election. Let's look at the ed Way time
back when Aisha was the Health minister. When Aisha was
the Health minister, only one out of two patients at
wykter ed got seen within six hours, only half of them.
It was outrageous. It is now improved by about fifteen
(11:24):
it's about fifteen percent. Mir it's at sixty six point
five percent. There's more work to do, of course there
is across the country. We see the same trend. When
National left office in twenty seventeen, ninety percent of patients
got through in six hours after Labor left and got
rid of the health target sixty seven point five percent.
Now it's back up to about three quarters. There's more
work to do, so of course we're not there yet.
Of course we want to keep going. But it's really
(11:46):
easy to come out and criticize now and go, oh, well,
it's not one hundred percent. You'll always find the one
person to point to. There are thousands and thousands more
people getting the treatment they need and the time they
need it because of the work at SIMI and Brown
and our National government have done well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If you can look at this week and think that
it's been a successful week, we've all got a problem
and the numbers M No.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
You don't get to go there, Nick. I was very
clear at the start. I said, let's just make this
about the family. I just come out swinging saying it's
all because this is a terrible government. So I'm giving
you the counterfectual. No one is suggesting this isn't a
terrible week. This is a heartbreaking week for that family.
That is the fundamental thing I said over and over
again at the start. No one is denying that, and
no one is trying to push that aside. But if
(12:31):
you want to talk facts and figures, like Aisha has
claimed to do, then I'm happy to have that discussion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean the facts, the facts and figures. For me,
putting it really simplistically, is a fifty year old man
died when he went to hospital to try and get
to try and get help. That's the facts. Take a
short break, and no one can argue with those facts.
And the nine hour waits, no one can argue with
those facts. Aishavera on Tim Costly, I'm just going to
(12:57):
reply to Tim's text. He's sorry, Phil's text she said,
He's right, Nick, it's a week to support the family.
Wait until next week for the whole story to come
out and then talk about it. Cheers Phil, Phil. If
I was that family member, I want people kicking doors down,
bashing and yelling and screaming right now. I don't care
if that was my family member that I just lost.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I want.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I don't want the ink to go dry on this one.
I'm sorry. That's I mean, that's We've got different opinions.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
On that right.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
MSD has come under fire this week after they reveal
a measure of staff performance was decreasing those in emergency accommodation.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So that was a big tick.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And if you didn't reduce the numbers in your control
of emergency accommodation, there was you know, some clawback. You
might be having a meeting with your leader, your team leader.
It was a downer. What did you actually think when
you read the story, Eihaverra, if.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You're in a housing emergency you should get emergency housing.
That you should get the housing because you need it,
not because someone got a performance target that's pushing them
making them think, oh, I might not be able to
keep my job unless I don't let this person into
emergency housing. These are entitlements for services provided by the
(14:17):
New Zealand government, and it's totally inappropriate that the staff
are being manipulated so as not to give them out.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Tim, what were your thoughts when you saw this?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Well, look, I wasn't aware of it. Obviously it's an
operational thing, so it's you know, so I look, I
think there's two issues. One, you know, what was there
a consequence? And is it about stopping people that needed
actually accessing it. I think what they're saying is they
want to work in the same direction our government wants
to work, which is to see less people needing emergency shelter,
(14:51):
more people being moved into good quality, warm, dry homes,
not being packed up in motels. We've seen tremendous success
over the last two and a half years of moving
children and families out of those emergency hotels and into
better quality housing, and I think that's something we should
all be tomorring Tim.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Surely it shouldn't be a requirement of your job to
stop people that absolutely need somewhere to live to be
able to put them in a place that would be
a tick. Surely that's not I know it's only one
of eleven, but surely that shouldn't even be.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
There, so I agree. If people have nowhere to live,
of course we want to help them find somewhere to live.
What is good to see though, is that those numbers
are decreasing rapidly. You know, if you look at the
numbers at the last twenty three census, about the time
of the election, about five thousand people without shelter. The
latest numbers we have from last year are about twelve hundred.
You know, the number of families living in that immency
(15:47):
accommodation is dropped by eighty five percent. This is good progress.
We want to keep doing that. No one is saying
if someone needs shelter, they shouldn't get at. What we're
saying is we want to see people moved out of
those sort of damn horrible motiles which are not a
great place to have your family packed up. We want
to see them move into decent housing, and we're investing
it into the kind of housing that families like. That.
That's with our direction of travel and focus is right.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's move on social media. Now, you're a big social
media guy, Tim, You do very well with social media,
although I haven't seen a lot lately. It's the Prime
Minister told you to back back while we get close
to election.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Is he put off by you?
Speaker 5 (16:22):
No, he loves it. He loves it. He's a few
of them.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I was just saying to Grace before. I haven't seen
him on social media for a while, so I wonder
whether he's been told to back off.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
No, I don't even know if I'm allowed to let
you in on a week secret. But it might be
that I've been encouraged in the other direction. Nick encouraged
in the other direction.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, I'm trying to work that one out.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
But Hannah, well, I'm not being told to back off.
I can definitively tell you that Permanent has only made
very encouraging my socialist.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Okay, cool, and I like it as well, Hannah Raugh.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My p Clark has been caught out over telling Porky's
on social media over her credit for policies, one of
them aishaviral. I found really abhorrent because we both me
and you understand the whole thing about breast cancer and
Maori people and you know far now and stand up
and say that she's been actually helping policies when she hasn't.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I mean, what did your thought when you saw that?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Look? She appears to have been caught out, and she
needs to she needs to explain what's gone on here.
I don't have any insight into it, but in general,
if you're caught out, you should own it and come
come clean.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Should there be rules by the speaker to control social
media the same as it is for media. Shouldn't there
be the same rules all around parliament and everything to
do with parliament.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Only to the extent of parliament. I think you know
there are rules about I can't go and take a
comment someone made in the house and use it out
of context on social media. But I don't think you
want to speak out micromn Ege in your life. Look
when I'm talking to my kids, I say social media
is not real life. The things you see on there,
that the expectations of demands that you might think what
is normal isn't. So don't buy into that. But when
(18:04):
I'm talking to people about what to put on social media,
you've got to be doing the work in the background.
You can't go and put stuff because you will get
caught out. You've got the story to tell. And I
see some candidates that just go and prolifically live on
social media. Sha everyone else's posts claim all sorts of
thing on the work in real life?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Don't you want people leading up to the election. Don't
you want people when you go out with your social
media actually trusting that what you're saying is correct rather
than than not trusting. And surely there should be some
rules to prevent you telling minci pies.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Well, well, there are rules that should apply to MPs
with that are doing that on social media, and you
know there are norms and expectations every time someone like
me stands up and speaks with someone that's running for
an election, the public should hold them to account. Media
should do what you're doing now, which is asked the
questions about it point out if people are just blatantly
making stuff up. But I don't think you want the
(18:57):
speaker writing rules about who can say what, because then
who's going to arbitrate and judge that and decide of
what you said in that social media? You know, do
you really want the government inspecting every aspect of your life?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't know, you see, you see, I'm fortunate that
I've spent a bit of time with both you and Asha,
and I share and I trust you both. If I
saw something that you put on social media. I would
trust you that it's trust in you that it was
a correct fact, and same with you. I should, But
you know, does that not concern you? I should that
that we that we can actually get away with that.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Well as as term just said, I think you're doing
your job by drawing attention to something where it appears
standards haven't haven't been upheld. So I guess that's the
system working in a sense. We can't be too strict
on these things, otherwise powers would be used to you know,
if you go the speaker, powers to say determine what
(19:50):
we could say on social media, those could be abused too.
So you think the system is probably all right.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I well, maybe maybe if you're a politician and you're
court lying, there should be something that you get reprimanded
by something like that so that we can trust our politicians.
It's a little bit more great to have you both
Aischeverral in the studio and Tim Costley from our studio
in Parliament.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Keep up the good work, both of you.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Tim, get the camera back out, get back on the streets,
get the camera back on.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You do a great job.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Something just for you. I'll find something just for you.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Nick, I see that, I see that a local place
of yours got to mention.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
And that allan from fifty to fifty. Oh so good,
isn't it. It's great to see and she is a
fantastic local chef. She's got a great background overseas as well.
And it's great to see fifty to fifty on the
mission unless it's in one more great move for our
government fixing the basics. And Billy, you.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Forgot to mention another one in town that someone else
has too. By the way, by gosh, everyone forgets about.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Sorry, sorry, Nick, Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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