April 15, 2026 • 21 mins
This week on Politics Thursday Nick is joined by Labour MP Ginny Andersen and National MP for Otaki Tim Costley
Things get fiery over calls from the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) on increasing tax. Specifically IRD want to see an increase to the goods and services tax (GST) rate, offering a cash transfer to low-income earners and a Capital Gains Tax.
The politicians face off over the best way to increase government funds, and which of their policies will help Kiwis?
Then onto the crisis in Iran. Andersen and Costley give their thoughts on Trump's actions with Strait of Hormuz and on his social media Truth Social. Also, should politicians go after the Pope?
Also, the new Wellington Water entity Tiaki Wai's board pay is concerning Mayor Andrew Little and Minister Simon Watts. The politicians share what can be done, and their thoughts on the salary doubling in some cases.
Then they talk trust in the media, which has risen for the first time since 2020 and Winston Peters comments that the new ferries may not be operated by KiwiRail - who else could do it?
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B leading the capital's conversation Wellington
Mornings with Nick Mills and Wellington Airport's Big Stores and
Big Brands at the Airport Retail Park in lyle B.
News Talk said B focusing in on the issues that
matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said by.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Shine, welcome back the same time the week when we
get a couple of our local politicians and to have
a bit of a chat and talk to things that
are issues to us. Ginny Anderson labor in p Good morning, Jenny,
Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm sorry I didn't come in and bring your coffee.
I apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, that's the fact that I miss having some time
with you. Actually, I'm not worrying about the coffee, but
having your your you and the studio is always nice
to have a chat. But I'm happy on the phone.
And Tim Costley, national MP for o Techi, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Tim, good morning, said are you missing me as well?
A little bit? Good? Okay, okay?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Flirt? Are you easy to flirt with? Tim?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yeah, I know, I know a check date.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You are a cheap date. All right, Let's get straight
into it, guys, because you're not here. I can't have
a lot of banter with you and rand revenue, says
New Zealand would likely need to increase taxes to keep
the government finances sustainable long term, building on earlier warnings
from Treasury about rising debt and future pressure on public spending. Ginny,
is this just the reality we have to accept We're
(01:37):
going to have to raise something somewhere to get some
more money in.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, there's so much pressures on right now for the
cost of living, it's really hard for key Weeds to
envisage that.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
So we've been very clear that we are only.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
In campaigning on capital gains text because that will pay
for three free GP visits and that's all we want
to discuss right now. Because of the immense pressures on
sam leads with the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Tim, there's been talk that GST has to raise. Someone's
got to do it. I mean, you look at some
of the Nordic countries and they're around twenty five percent
UK twenty percent. I mean, is it time that we
least had that discussion.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, I think there's a broad discussion about the country
paying its way in the world. I don't think GST
is the answer. I don't support that, but I think
you have to look at you know, what are you
going to spend versus how much money is coming in,
just like any family looks at its budget. The country
has to do it. Our approach over the last two
and a half years has been to cut back on spending.
We didn't support the approach of the previous government. We
(02:36):
don't support what they seem to be doing with tax,
and it's not fair, it's not true in fact, to
say that the capital gains tax is the only one.
They're also campaigning on a digital services tax. They've talked
about increasing the bright line tax on property and change
the central seductibility. So there's actually a few on the table,
and Debra Russell, the tax spokesperson, seems really interested on
(02:57):
a whole bunch.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Of the issue. That I've got is that we've both
got the ird and Treasury both telling us we need
to get extra money in, and you're just a avoiding
them like the plague. You're saying, don't it's an election year,
we don't have to get more money in.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
No. So this there's two aspects. One we need we
need to get away from this culture of spending more
than we can. And I'm really critical of Labour's capital
gains tax because they want to spend it straight away.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
What's your plan? Don't talked about ours, but have you
got one.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I've got a plan. Yeah. Our plan is not to
not to increase tax. Our plan is.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
People, I mean, that's your plan to make life so
hard for keywis that they leave and go to Australia.
That's your plan because it's working really well.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well. We're numbers to Australia at the last they've been
since you guys shut the border at COVID.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
You're not the record numbers we've had sivinty eight out
in years time.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You said, you just said that your only tax is
capital gains tax. You've got a digital services tax and
one of your current policies, one of your only three
current policies, so that wasn't even true. The first thing
you said, Look, our plan is to not your guests
no longer. The money we saw during the last government
(04:12):
that they just spent, spent, spent, wrapped up to debt
at drove inflation to a thirty two year high. That
cannot be our approach this record colect to your question, Nick,
is around the affordable We're talking about the affordability of
superannuation and the number of people that are working compared
to the number of people lying on it. That is
where we do want to have responsible for.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Please, I was really enjoying that stend for talk on
Nationals Company. But people are living in New Zealand and
record numbers because they can't afford to live here anymore.
Ten thousand jobs gone on Wellington alone and are record numbers.
I think fifteen thousand a high number of liquidations gone
on in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Because we're going to do give us your plan, tell
us right now what.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
What our plan is is.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We want to use our state owned enterprises better than
just selling them off like National wants to. We'll make
them work for kiwis here and we'll build a future
fund that will have for capital markets that keep companies
like Systeamer keep company.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yoursell can just hold up, hold.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Up them and grow well paid jobs in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
That's hold on both.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Please time out, ring the bell, ring the bell, time out.
I need to come in right. That's one type person
at a time and let's stick to the topic. The
topic is we have both the id entriesury saying we
need to bring more money in. The only way we
can bring more money in is by tax or cut costs. Now, Tim,
you can't physically tell us how are you going to
(05:40):
cut the costs? So how are you saying you're not
going to increase tax?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Let me, I've told you how. And look we've spent
two and a half year shion. We saved forty four
billion dollars over the last two budgets. We have demonstrated
how we're No, it's not Look, no one here believes that.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
The government Wellington can see that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
We can see.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I disagree entirely. Look you go to the there are
take the hospital example. Theres a couple of thousand more
nurses employed today then their way back then. But the
government cannot just keep inventing money to create jobs to
pay people, like the green jobs that the last labor
government tried. That's all the.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Most shut down since you've been government. It's not just
public servant jobs, it's all the local economy that's just
downwardly spiraled. The thousands of liquidations of businesses. They're not
paid for in their wages, by the government. There's small
New Zealand family businesses that have gone under. They survived
the GFC, they survived COVID that they.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Haven't survived because at the end of COVID you spent
sixty six billion dollars. Half of it wasn't on COVID.
It caused huge inflation that pushed up costs. And that's
why I'll.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Hold one point, sorry cost at one point, very quickly,
part of that money that you're talking about, that you
say was wasteful COVID spending. Your mate, Chris Bishop will
be turning up on Saturday morning to cut the ribbon
of one of those projects. Fifteen million dollars of COVID
ready funding has built cycle ways and the infrastructure around
the hut. Now he might want to pay it out
and call it bad names in the house, but in
reality he turns up and sees it's a great local
(07:08):
asset that keep people working, that keep wages coming into
our local economy at a time when national was cutting
jobs and making our economy worse.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Can I just ask you both, because I'm pretty simplistic,
right Tim, do you reckon there's ever a chance that
there'll be a cross party agreement before this election saying, look,
you know we've looked at things in capital some form,
some form of capital gains has to come in. Why
don't we go to the election, labor on their version,
us on our version, and let people actually decide.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
You know, that's fundamentally how elections work. But I think
we have a fundamental difference on tax Potty. New Zealand
National believes that we've got the settings where they should be,
that now isn't the time to push up costs for people.
That instead the government needs to be more responsible with
its spending and make sure we're getting bang for buck.
That's our approach. Their approach seems to be, yeah, let's
get a boath So.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Capital gains tax is definitely out for you guys.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
He brought it in.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Those guys brought it in, John keyboard in a two
year Brighteline team switch is the start of the CGT.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
They brought it in, Tom John Ky brought in the
bright line test. That is correct. We have Labor increased
it from two years to five to.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Ten with but you order it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
You started it with the last government did Yeah. I
don't think anyone's debasing that. The point is what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
See, we wouldn't bring in a text a text.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Hey, I'm going to take time out. I'm going to
call time out.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's outrageous. That is outrageous. I have said that we
think we've got the settings right. We're not bringing and
we're not bringing in any new taxes. Jenny stood that,
and that is true. That is one hundred percent true.
I'm not talking about what happened fifteen years ago. Jenny
said there is only one tax, that's capital gains tax.
But can she confirmed then that they're not going to
bring in the digital services tax. They're not going to
(08:49):
increase the bright line tax.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
No, we're not. We are campaigning on at CGT. That
is our tech. That is our text.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
No digital services text, the one that's in your current
policy around gaming and stuff. You're not going to have
that digital services tax, now, is that correct?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Look at well, that's not looking at the cost of
living and impacting on people.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Tak.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
You've only got three policy she doesn't know one of them.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm going to go to an ad break. It's getting
a little bit out of control, sick, and I'm getting
some interesting text Jenny, Jenny Ginny, you're getting picked on.
Can you tell that labor mouthy laby baby woman, labor
woman to control herself. She's hijacking your show, Brian, I'll.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Know about that.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I reckon that you had my coffee before you went
on the show. That's what I read. That's what it
feels like, right, Jinny Anderson and Tim Costley. Pharmacists have
been given more powers from June to give out funded medication.
Now I love this idea. I love the idea. If
you've got a slightly sick child that you don't have
to go and wait for a GP, you could take
it down to the chemists. If there's some serious problem,
(09:53):
they'd say, go to your GP. But if there's something
that they could do, they could fix it. Do you
think there's a problem with this, Ginny.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
I hope not, because I mean, we did some good
work on this.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Say Shaville did it around pharmacist thing, I would be
utilized and more preventative care. So if it's managed well,
you know, I hope that it eases the pressure on
GPS and.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
In our hospitals. You know, we believe strongly in.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Making sure primary care is most readily available and affordable
and accessible, because that stops our hospitals from being so broken.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Tim, is this something that helps our struggling GPS and
our er.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah, it does. It definitely helps at GPS. I think
it also, to be fair, helps local families, right, which
is absolutely top in mind. You know, I remember when
they kid to a little you know, they get conjunctivirus
in their either get that gun. Can you know what's
going to happen When you go to the doctor, you'll
get the script for the drops or whatever. But now
you can go directly or you'll be able to go
directly to the pharmacist so they'll be able to give
(10:52):
it to you. It speeds up the care that people
want to get. They can get it really close to home,
and it takes a bit of pressure off GPS. So
I think it's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We all agreed. Do you think it could be expanded, Ginny?
Do you know slightly like every decent pharmacist would have
a little room that they could take people into it
and talk to them and help them.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You well, I know a lot of our local pharmacists
here in the heart do a great job at doing
things like that now, and it's that personal relationship with
someone who comes into your shop. That's really beneficial because
if someone stops taking their medicine, they can understand why
and understand some other whole things that might be going
on in your life. So the more that that can
happen locally and relieve the pressure on our hospitals, then
(11:30):
the better.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Right, let's talk about the war. We haven't talked about
it for a couple of days on the show. Trump's
created a zone blockade of the Strait of Homas. What
does that mean for kiwis.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Team, Well, what it means for Kiwi's and the short
term is no change. We still have this really frustrating
situation in Iran. But Keywa's paid the price for other countries'
decisions at the pump every day. And that's why we
can't change what's happening in the Straits of Homoves. But
we can control our response to that situation. And that's
(12:02):
why we're trying to bring this targeted, timely response to
his own because because we see the impact everywhere we go. Right,
it's not just it's not just directly painful petrol. It's
painful almost everything in the country that relies on petrol,
whether that's food or you know, good services, all of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Gulie Trump said that it's actually permanently open. Do you
trust them? Do you believe them?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Look, it's really it's really difficult to understand even what's
true these days. I mean, I think the government needs
to condemn Donald Trump's threat to target around civilian infrastructure.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
You know, if you're doing things like.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Striking or forming civilian infrastructure that's going to endanger lives,
it could be present a really serious breach of international law,
and we should be loud and clear that we don't
want to dangerously escalate an already volatile situation.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What about Tim What about What were your thoughts on
him having a crack at the pope? Is that going
a step too far?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Now?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, well, stranger, it's not the only thing he's done
a step Stilet's be honest. So I'm not going to
stand here and try and defend the guy. And I look,
I don't know. I mean, you said, do you believe
when he says the straights open? I mean, there are
so many things that get said. I think what we
have to believe is the situation that we see when
we see the ships flowing, then we know that the
ships the straits are open at the moment. The good
(13:16):
news is that New Zealand has normal levels of supply
coming into New Zealand. And I know that Chris Hopkins
or Labour put out a press release saying that they
were down to under three weeks. It's not true. And
I just want everyone listening to be really clear that
actually we have more fuel supplies than we did twenty
eight days ago in New Zealand, that they are at
normal and the PM and ministers have been working over
(13:36):
time to get extra contracts in place with places like Singapore,
not just relying on South Korea, and so fuel levels
are at a normal level. Yes, fuel is expensive, We've
got that target of support and place for that. But
the amount of fuel coming into New Zealand is exactly
where it would have been this time last year.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Jinny, I keep hearing that farmers aren't getting their normal deliveries,
you know, with their own tanks and stuff. Are you
hearing the same thing?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, we are hearing on Jessup and the Hawk's Bay.
A couple of days ago had a public mending there
on the job losses and waterings in the pains.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
And you know there are a lot of people out
there who have to go.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Long distances and they're using significant amount of detail of
diesel and that's really putting pressure on their local businesses.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
So yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
The fact that it's skiers is just meaning the risk
of people stop piling more and that.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Eats more into reserves. So it is a real concern.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Tim. There's been a lot of talk in the last
week about Tayaqui. Why Wellington Water metro Water. It's not
called Wellington Water anymore, it's Taiaki. Why paying their board members?
The chair has gone from sixty thousand to one hundred
and ten thousand, the directors are doubled from thirty to
sixty thousand, and the CEO, Michael Brewsters on six hundred
and forty five thousand. Is that a concern?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Is?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I mean people are talking about it, aren't the plus
it is?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah? Well, I mean, you know, and particularly given the
state of some of the things that we've seen that Look,
there are huge questions I think that hang over us,
and it's really hard for TIAKI why to justify this?
Ultimately go that in c is council control by Wellington
City Council. So Andrew Little and his counsel should be
(15:09):
the ones asking questions and should be the ones that
are drying into this because I think most local residents
there is going to be as concerned and upset as
I am, particularly given what's seppened in the last few months.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Jinny. The problem is that under this new entity, can
the councils actually do anything?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, we meet recently with some of the new people
and it's just such a massive exercise. And my concern
is that how much it's going to impact on our
water bills. You know, we've already got high rates and
we're going to do separate bills for water, and every
part is different, like the Heart's different from Pottydoor, which
is different from Wellington in terms of how much we're paying.
(15:47):
So I think central government isn't helping with cost of
living pressures in effecting situations like this are actually making
it worse.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Do we want do we either of you? This is
a question to either of you. Do we want the
government getting involved? And this is I mean, this is
their new water plan, our version in Wellington. Do we
need them getting involved more and saying hey, come on guys,
that's been a bit sensible about this.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Well, I think there is definitely a need for people
to be sensible, but ultimately, you know, this is a
council controlled Everyone would be equally upset if the government
was launching and telling them exactly what to do. But
where I think the government can be involved is what
we're doing, which is picking up the point Jenny made.
It's about rape capping rates rises and that's one thing
that we have done. We're committed to, is capping rates
(16:32):
rises because it's not sustainable to expect rate payers to
just keep forking out more and more and more every
single year. We need to get back to it. It's
like the topic we've talked about at the start, Right,
it's not just about how much money comes in, but
it's about how you're spending it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay, I want to ask you both this because there's
something that interests me. Right. Trust in the news has
risen for the first time since twenty twenty. This change
has been credited to distrust of the internet due to
AI Ginny. Do you trust the media.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Generally? I do.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Generally I do, but I tend to like, I tend
to check things. So if someone's told me some information
and I'll I'm like, I'll tune it over my mind
and then I'll go.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Check it in a couple of other sources.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And I think that's kind of what the modern day
and age requires people to do, is not just take
your information from taktok or.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But I want you to be a bit clearer than that.
If there was an article on stuff or New Zealand
Herald or news Talk said said B's website, would you
trust that?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yes, generally I would. Generally I would.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And sometimes things do get out of context, I'll say that,
but generally the facts get reported on accurately in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't like that genuinely. I mean that's kind of
like the check generally, it's like it's the checks and
the post. I think I'm going to pay you, Jinny, Tim,
what about it?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, like we.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Should we do the example of the story about gangs
there've been more gang members.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Then then well then I believe that, And so you know.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You've got some political inference sometimes and what the media
are saying so that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I see, I believe, I strongly believe there is
more game members and cops. So there you go, Okay,
do you trust the media?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I trust that what we see in New Zealand media.
Is it accurate? I don't, it's necessarily always done. There
are a lot of questions about that public interest journalism
fund them and the perception but perception reality that the
news got quite biased. I actually think there's a couple
of things going on. One is the AI thing that
people realize you can't believe a lot of stuff you
(18:36):
see online. They think that things will be generally more
fact checked by traditional media. But secondly, I think traditional
media actually got a wake up call when they hit
that sort of that all time bottom last year and
realized that people were flocking away from traditional news platforms
and finding their information online and unless they presented a
better quality product, they weren't going to get. You know,
it's hard to make business work if you don't have
(18:57):
the product people want. So I think we've seen them
respond to that well and take a step in the
right direction. And we've seen that and the trust and pros.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Okay, can I really really quickly because I want to
change to another topic.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I've got one point on truth and important to get
the truth out. I've just gone back and double checked
on on on your claim term about the digital services
text and it was our policy last selection, so it
was a bell and Labor put it through, but it
didn't get past.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
National kept it on the box, but it is not
our pology.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Not even talking about that. Yes, trying to take over
the show, Jenny.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I wanted to terrify that point because.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It was one question clear, Okay, one question from me,
if would you trust AI or the Pope or stuff or.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Trust the Pope your AI next. I don't know what
you're feeling into your AI algorithm, but I take the
Pope over you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I didn't said the post of the PA.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And Donald Trump versus A, and I'm sticking up for him.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm voting for the Pope, so I trust the Pope.
I trust the Pope. I would trust the Pope more
than I trust you do to get because that's fair.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I think that's fair. I can live with that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Okay, quickly, very quickly, because I've got to go. What's
the betters has signals that the Kiwi Rail may not
be operating the new Fairies. If not, who's then tim
very quickly and don't give me a sales pitch.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm not going to give you a sales pitch. Look,
I think he's indicated that he's saying he wants a
robust organization that delivers really well to be running it. Yeah,
people are reading into stuff, but if you look at
their performance over the last year, they've had pretty much
one hundred percent reliability. Takeout that sort of extreme weather events,
and I think they're probably putting forward their strongest case
now compared to what they were three or four years ago.
(20:44):
But I don't I don't have anyone else on the
table right now. I don't have any inside scoop for you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Sorry, no, no, no problem, Jenny, would you? I mean,
it's a state highway one across the across the water.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It's just this has been the biggest stuff up Wellington
has seen in ages. You know, Wellingtonian's need a fery,
we need and so and so the fact that you
know they've kicked the contract out, we don't you know,
the date we would have had stuff really is coming
up pretty soon and we're still mucking around. So it's
a real consume for those goods that go back and
forwards between the two islands and all the business that.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Relies on there.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
So the unsutainty that we've head around the series is
just unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Thank you both so very very much. I've got to
go because it's but thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I'm disappointed, but fine.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Nice to chat, nice, nice to costly to the Edison. Oh,
I need a cup of tea in a lie dout
Twitter
Speaker 1 (21:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
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You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B leading the capital's conversation Wellington
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News Talk said B focusing in on the issues that
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Speaker 2 (00:31):
Shine, welcome back the same time the week when we
get a couple of our local politicians and to have
a bit of a chat and talk to things that
are issues to us. Ginny Anderson labor in p Good morning, Jenny,
Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm sorry I didn't come in and bring your coffee.
I apologize for that.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Well, that's the fact that I miss having some time
with you. Actually, I'm not worrying about the coffee, but
having your your you and the studio is always nice
to have a chat. But I'm happy on the phone.
And Tim Costley, national MP for o Techi, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Tim, good morning, said are you missing me as well?
A little bit? Good? Okay, okay?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Flirt? Are you easy to flirt with? Tim?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yeah, I know, I know a check date.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You are a cheap date. All right, Let's get straight
into it, guys, because you're not here. I can't have
a lot of banter with you and rand revenue, says
New Zealand would likely need to increase taxes to keep
the government finances sustainable long term, building on earlier warnings
from Treasury about rising debt and future pressure on public spending. Ginny,
is this just the reality we have to accept We're
(01:37):
going to have to raise something somewhere to get some
more money in.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, there's so much pressures on right now for the
cost of living, it's really hard for key Weeds to
envisage that.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
So we've been very clear that we are only.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
In campaigning on capital gains text because that will pay
for three free GP visits and that's all we want
to discuss right now. Because of the immense pressures on
sam leads with the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Tim, there's been talk that GST has to raise. Someone's
got to do it. I mean, you look at some
of the Nordic countries and they're around twenty five percent
UK twenty percent. I mean, is it time that we
least had that discussion.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, I think there's a broad discussion about the country
paying its way in the world. I don't think GST
is the answer. I don't support that, but I think
you have to look at you know, what are you
going to spend versus how much money is coming in,
just like any family looks at its budget. The country
has to do it. Our approach over the last two
and a half years has been to cut back on spending.
We didn't support the approach of the previous government. We
(02:36):
don't support what they seem to be doing with tax,
and it's not fair, it's not true in fact, to
say that the capital gains tax is the only one.
They're also campaigning on a digital services tax. They've talked
about increasing the bright line tax on property and change
the central seductibility. So there's actually a few on the table,
and Debra Russell, the tax spokesperson, seems really interested on
(02:57):
a whole bunch.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Of the issue. That I've got is that we've both
got the ird and Treasury both telling us we need
to get extra money in, and you're just a avoiding
them like the plague. You're saying, don't it's an election year,
we don't have to get more money in.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
No. So this there's two aspects. One we need we
need to get away from this culture of spending more
than we can. And I'm really critical of Labour's capital
gains tax because they want to spend it straight away.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
What's your plan? Don't talked about ours, but have you
got one.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I've got a plan. Yeah. Our plan is not to
not to increase tax. Our plan is.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
People, I mean, that's your plan to make life so
hard for keywis that they leave and go to Australia.
That's your plan because it's working really well.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well. We're numbers to Australia at the last they've been
since you guys shut the border at COVID.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
You're not the record numbers we've had sivinty eight out
in years time.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
You said, you just said that your only tax is
capital gains tax. You've got a digital services tax and
one of your current policies, one of your only three
current policies, so that wasn't even true. The first thing
you said, Look, our plan is to not your guests
no longer. The money we saw during the last government
(04:12):
that they just spent, spent, spent, wrapped up to debt
at drove inflation to a thirty two year high. That
cannot be our approach this record colect to your question, Nick,
is around the affordable We're talking about the affordability of
superannuation and the number of people that are working compared
to the number of people lying on it. That is
where we do want to have responsible for.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Please, I was really enjoying that stend for talk on
Nationals Company. But people are living in New Zealand and
record numbers because they can't afford to live here anymore.
Ten thousand jobs gone on Wellington alone and are record numbers.
I think fifteen thousand a high number of liquidations gone
on in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Because we're going to do give us your plan, tell
us right now what.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
What our plan is is.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We want to use our state owned enterprises better than
just selling them off like National wants to. We'll make
them work for kiwis here and we'll build a future
fund that will have for capital markets that keep companies
like Systeamer keep company.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yoursell can just hold up, hold.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Up them and grow well paid jobs in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
That's hold on both.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Please time out, ring the bell, ring the bell, time out.
I need to come in right. That's one type person
at a time and let's stick to the topic. The
topic is we have both the id entriesury saying we
need to bring more money in. The only way we
can bring more money in is by tax or cut costs. Now, Tim,
you can't physically tell us how are you going to
(05:40):
cut the costs? So how are you saying you're not
going to increase tax?
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Let me, I've told you how. And look we've spent
two and a half year shion. We saved forty four
billion dollars over the last two budgets. We have demonstrated
how we're No, it's not Look, no one here believes that.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
The government Wellington can see that.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
We can see.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I disagree entirely. Look you go to the there are
take the hospital example. Theres a couple of thousand more
nurses employed today then their way back then. But the
government cannot just keep inventing money to create jobs to
pay people, like the green jobs that the last labor
government tried. That's all the.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Most shut down since you've been government. It's not just
public servant jobs, it's all the local economy that's just
downwardly spiraled. The thousands of liquidations of businesses. They're not
paid for in their wages, by the government. There's small
New Zealand family businesses that have gone under. They survived
the GFC, they survived COVID that they.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Haven't survived because at the end of COVID you spent
sixty six billion dollars. Half of it wasn't on COVID.
It caused huge inflation that pushed up costs. And that's
why I'll.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Hold one point, sorry cost at one point, very quickly,
part of that money that you're talking about, that you
say was wasteful COVID spending. Your mate, Chris Bishop will
be turning up on Saturday morning to cut the ribbon
of one of those projects. Fifteen million dollars of COVID
ready funding has built cycle ways and the infrastructure around
the hut. Now he might want to pay it out
and call it bad names in the house, but in
reality he turns up and sees it's a great local
(07:08):
asset that keep people working, that keep wages coming into
our local economy at a time when national was cutting
jobs and making our economy worse.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Can I just ask you both, because I'm pretty simplistic,
right Tim, do you reckon there's ever a chance that
there'll be a cross party agreement before this election saying, look,
you know we've looked at things in capital some form,
some form of capital gains has to come in. Why
don't we go to the election, labor on their version,
us on our version, and let people actually decide.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
You know, that's fundamentally how elections work. But I think
we have a fundamental difference on tax Potty. New Zealand
National believes that we've got the settings where they should be,
that now isn't the time to push up costs for people.
That instead the government needs to be more responsible with
its spending and make sure we're getting bang for buck.
That's our approach. Their approach seems to be, yeah, let's
get a boath So.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Capital gains tax is definitely out for you guys.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
He brought it in.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Those guys brought it in, John keyboard in a two
year Brighteline team switch is the start of the CGT.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
They brought it in, Tom John Ky brought in the
bright line test. That is correct. We have Labor increased
it from two years to five to.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Ten with but you order it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
You started it with the last government did Yeah. I
don't think anyone's debasing that. The point is what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
See, we wouldn't bring in a text a text.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Hey, I'm going to take time out. I'm going to
call time out.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's outrageous. That is outrageous. I have said that we
think we've got the settings right. We're not bringing and
we're not bringing in any new taxes. Jenny stood that,
and that is true. That is one hundred percent true.
I'm not talking about what happened fifteen years ago. Jenny
said there is only one tax, that's capital gains tax.
But can she confirmed then that they're not going to
bring in the digital services tax. They're not going to
(08:49):
increase the bright line tax.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
No, we're not. We are campaigning on at CGT. That
is our tech. That is our text.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
No digital services text, the one that's in your current
policy around gaming and stuff. You're not going to have
that digital services tax, now, is that correct?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Look at well, that's not looking at the cost of
living and impacting on people.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Tak.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
You've only got three policy she doesn't know one of them.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm going to go to an ad break. It's getting
a little bit out of control, sick, and I'm getting
some interesting text Jenny, Jenny Ginny, you're getting picked on.
Can you tell that labor mouthy laby baby woman, labor
woman to control herself. She's hijacking your show, Brian, I'll.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Know about that.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I reckon that you had my coffee before you went
on the show. That's what I read. That's what it
feels like, right, Jinny Anderson and Tim Costley. Pharmacists have
been given more powers from June to give out funded medication.
Now I love this idea. I love the idea. If
you've got a slightly sick child that you don't have
to go and wait for a GP, you could take
it down to the chemists. If there's some serious problem,
(09:53):
they'd say, go to your GP. But if there's something
that they could do, they could fix it. Do you
think there's a problem with this, Ginny.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
I hope not, because I mean, we did some good
work on this.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Say Shaville did it around pharmacist thing, I would be
utilized and more preventative care. So if it's managed well,
you know, I hope that it eases the pressure on
GPS and.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
In our hospitals. You know, we believe strongly in.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Making sure primary care is most readily available and affordable
and accessible, because that stops our hospitals from being so broken.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Tim, is this something that helps our struggling GPS and
our er.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah, it does. It definitely helps at GPS. I think
it also, to be fair, helps local families, right, which
is absolutely top in mind. You know, I remember when
they kid to a little you know, they get conjunctivirus
in their either get that gun. Can you know what's
going to happen When you go to the doctor, you'll
get the script for the drops or whatever. But now
you can go directly or you'll be able to go
directly to the pharmacist so they'll be able to give
(10:52):
it to you. It speeds up the care that people
want to get. They can get it really close to home,
and it takes a bit of pressure off GPS. So
I think it's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We all agreed. Do you think it could be expanded, Ginny?
Do you know slightly like every decent pharmacist would have
a little room that they could take people into it
and talk to them and help them.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You well, I know a lot of our local pharmacists
here in the heart do a great job at doing
things like that now, and it's that personal relationship with
someone who comes into your shop. That's really beneficial because
if someone stops taking their medicine, they can understand why
and understand some other whole things that might be going
on in your life. So the more that that can
happen locally and relieve the pressure on our hospitals, then
(11:30):
the better.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Right, let's talk about the war. We haven't talked about
it for a couple of days on the show. Trump's
created a zone blockade of the Strait of Homas. What
does that mean for kiwis.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Team, Well, what it means for Kiwi's and the short
term is no change. We still have this really frustrating
situation in Iran. But Keywa's paid the price for other countries'
decisions at the pump every day. And that's why we
can't change what's happening in the Straits of Homoves. But
we can control our response to that situation. And that's
(12:02):
why we're trying to bring this targeted, timely response to
his own because because we see the impact everywhere we go. Right,
it's not just it's not just directly painful petrol. It's
painful almost everything in the country that relies on petrol,
whether that's food or you know, good services, all of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Gulie Trump said that it's actually permanently open. Do you
trust them? Do you believe them?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Look, it's really it's really difficult to understand even what's
true these days. I mean, I think the government needs
to condemn Donald Trump's threat to target around civilian infrastructure.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
You know, if you're doing things like.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Striking or forming civilian infrastructure that's going to endanger lives,
it could be present a really serious breach of international law,
and we should be loud and clear that we don't
want to dangerously escalate an already volatile situation.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What about Tim What about What were your thoughts on
him having a crack at the pope? Is that going
a step too far?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Now?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, well, stranger, it's not the only thing he's done
a step Stilet's be honest. So I'm not going to
stand here and try and defend the guy. And I look,
I don't know. I mean, you said, do you believe
when he says the straights open? I mean, there are
so many things that get said. I think what we
have to believe is the situation that we see when
we see the ships flowing, then we know that the
ships the straits are open at the moment. The good
(13:16):
news is that New Zealand has normal levels of supply
coming into New Zealand. And I know that Chris Hopkins
or Labour put out a press release saying that they
were down to under three weeks. It's not true. And
I just want everyone listening to be really clear that
actually we have more fuel supplies than we did twenty
eight days ago in New Zealand, that they are at
normal and the PM and ministers have been working over
(13:36):
time to get extra contracts in place with places like Singapore,
not just relying on South Korea, and so fuel levels
are at a normal level. Yes, fuel is expensive, We've
got that target of support and place for that. But
the amount of fuel coming into New Zealand is exactly
where it would have been this time last year.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Jinny, I keep hearing that farmers aren't getting their normal deliveries,
you know, with their own tanks and stuff. Are you
hearing the same thing?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, we are hearing on Jessup and the Hawk's Bay.
A couple of days ago had a public mending there
on the job losses and waterings in the pains.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
And you know there are a lot of people out
there who have to go.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Long distances and they're using significant amount of detail of
diesel and that's really putting pressure on their local businesses.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
So yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
The fact that it's skiers is just meaning the risk
of people stop piling more and that.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Eats more into reserves. So it is a real concern.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Tim. There's been a lot of talk in the last
week about Tayaqui. Why Wellington Water metro Water. It's not
called Wellington Water anymore, it's Taiaki. Why paying their board members?
The chair has gone from sixty thousand to one hundred
and ten thousand, the directors are doubled from thirty to
sixty thousand, and the CEO, Michael Brewsters on six hundred
and forty five thousand. Is that a concern?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Is?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I mean people are talking about it, aren't the plus
it is?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah? Well, I mean, you know, and particularly given the
state of some of the things that we've seen that Look,
there are huge questions I think that hang over us,
and it's really hard for TIAKI why to justify this?
Ultimately go that in c is council control by Wellington
City Council. So Andrew Little and his counsel should be
(15:09):
the ones asking questions and should be the ones that
are drying into this because I think most local residents
there is going to be as concerned and upset as
I am, particularly given what's seppened in the last few months.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Jinny. The problem is that under this new entity, can
the councils actually do anything?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, we meet recently with some of the new people
and it's just such a massive exercise. And my concern
is that how much it's going to impact on our
water bills. You know, we've already got high rates and
we're going to do separate bills for water, and every
part is different, like the Heart's different from Pottydoor, which
is different from Wellington in terms of how much we're paying.
(15:47):
So I think central government isn't helping with cost of
living pressures in effecting situations like this are actually making
it worse.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Do we want do we either of you? This is
a question to either of you. Do we want the
government getting involved? And this is I mean, this is
their new water plan, our version in Wellington. Do we
need them getting involved more and saying hey, come on guys,
that's been a bit sensible about this.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Well, I think there is definitely a need for people
to be sensible, but ultimately, you know, this is a
council controlled Everyone would be equally upset if the government
was launching and telling them exactly what to do. But
where I think the government can be involved is what
we're doing, which is picking up the point Jenny made.
It's about rape capping rates rises and that's one thing
that we have done. We're committed to, is capping rates
(16:32):
rises because it's not sustainable to expect rate payers to
just keep forking out more and more and more every
single year. We need to get back to it. It's
like the topic we've talked about at the start, Right,
it's not just about how much money comes in, but
it's about how you're spending it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay, I want to ask you both this because there's
something that interests me. Right. Trust in the news has
risen for the first time since twenty twenty. This change
has been credited to distrust of the internet due to
AI Ginny. Do you trust the media.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Generally? I do.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Generally I do, but I tend to like, I tend
to check things. So if someone's told me some information
and I'll I'm like, I'll tune it over my mind
and then I'll go.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Check it in a couple of other sources.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And I think that's kind of what the modern day
and age requires people to do, is not just take
your information from taktok or.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But I want you to be a bit clearer than that.
If there was an article on stuff or New Zealand
Herald or news Talk said said B's website, would you
trust that?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yes, generally I would. Generally I would.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And sometimes things do get out of context, I'll say that,
but generally the facts get reported on accurately in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't like that genuinely. I mean that's kind of
like the check generally, it's like it's the checks and
the post. I think I'm going to pay you, Jinny, Tim,
what about it?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, like we.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Should we do the example of the story about gangs
there've been more gang members.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Then then well then I believe that, And so you know.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You've got some political inference sometimes and what the media
are saying so that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I see, I believe, I strongly believe there is
more game members and cops. So there you go, Okay,
do you trust the media?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I trust that what we see in New Zealand media.
Is it accurate? I don't, it's necessarily always done. There
are a lot of questions about that public interest journalism
fund them and the perception but perception reality that the
news got quite biased. I actually think there's a couple
of things going on. One is the AI thing that
people realize you can't believe a lot of stuff you
(18:36):
see online. They think that things will be generally more
fact checked by traditional media. But secondly, I think traditional
media actually got a wake up call when they hit
that sort of that all time bottom last year and
realized that people were flocking away from traditional news platforms
and finding their information online and unless they presented a
better quality product, they weren't going to get. You know,
it's hard to make business work if you don't have
(18:57):
the product people want. So I think we've seen them
respond to that well and take a step in the
right direction. And we've seen that and the trust and pros.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Okay, can I really really quickly because I want to
change to another topic.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I've got one point on truth and important to get
the truth out. I've just gone back and double checked
on on on your claim term about the digital services
text and it was our policy last selection, so it
was a bell and Labor put it through, but it
didn't get past.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
National kept it on the box, but it is not
our pology.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Not even talking about that. Yes, trying to take over
the show, Jenny.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I wanted to terrify that point because.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It was one question clear, Okay, one question from me,
if would you trust AI or the Pope or stuff or.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Trust the Pope your AI next. I don't know what
you're feeling into your AI algorithm, but I take the
Pope over you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I didn't said the post of the PA.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And Donald Trump versus A, and I'm sticking up for him.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm voting for the Pope, so I trust the Pope.
I trust the Pope. I would trust the Pope more
than I trust you do to get because that's fair.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I think that's fair. I can live with that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Okay, quickly, very quickly, because I've got to go. What's
the betters has signals that the Kiwi Rail may not
be operating the new Fairies. If not, who's then tim
very quickly and don't give me a sales pitch.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'm not going to give you a sales pitch. Look,
I think he's indicated that he's saying he wants a
robust organization that delivers really well to be running it. Yeah,
people are reading into stuff, but if you look at
their performance over the last year, they've had pretty much
one hundred percent reliability. Takeout that sort of extreme weather events,
and I think they're probably putting forward their strongest case
now compared to what they were three or four years ago.
(20:44):
But I don't I don't have anyone else on the
table right now. I don't have any inside scoop for you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Sorry, no, no, no problem, Jenny, would you? I mean,
it's a state highway one across the across the water.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
It's just this has been the biggest stuff up Wellington
has seen in ages. You know, Wellingtonian's need a fery,
we need and so and so the fact that you
know they've kicked the contract out, we don't you know,
the date we would have had stuff really is coming
up pretty soon and we're still mucking around. So it's
a real consume for those goods that go back and
forwards between the two islands and all the business that.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Relies on there.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
So the unsutainty that we've head around the series is
just unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Thank you both so very very much. I've got to
go because it's but thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I'm disappointed, but fine.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Nice to chat, nice, nice to costly to the Edison. Oh,
I need a cup of tea in a lie dout
Speaker 1 (21:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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