April 1, 2026 • 32 mins
Nick Mills wraps the week for a Thursday edition of faceoff with Hutt City Mayor Ken Laban and journalist and broadcasting legend Mark Sainsbury.
Starting with the complaints from councillors' around their new office – Councillor Nicola Young says many boycotted the blessing as they are not pleased with the location of the Mayor’s office. Is this a show of entitlement or genuine concern about the perception of our leader?
Our panel share their thoughts on the inquiry into the FENZ fire truck fleet by Tim Costley. The board's answers to Costley are apparently “confusing and contradictory".
What do Mayor Laban and Sainsbury think of the 79% pay increase of some board members during the pay dispute for frontline workers – and what questions need to be answered by FENZ?
Can we expect our fire fighters to do their job with such limited pay and equipment?
Then Minister Winston Peters flies over to Rarotonga to seal a deal which clarifies our two countries relationship. But he flew over in an Airforce jet. Is this a bad look during the fuel crisis? Or are the optics of Peters in Rarotonga and putting in effort important enough?
And what do our panel think of the deal?
Then onto the David Tamihere case being quashed due to a miscarriage of justice. Our panel talk the likelihood of retrial and whether Tamihere should receive compensation.
The Green Party declined a candidate – a sex worker advocacy group says it’s due to the woman’s prior experience in that industry. Should someone be denied due to their career, or should we bring more diversity into the beehive?
Then the basin – our panel get heated on what should be done with the basin reserve, as the NZ20 cricket is set to play there.
Plus, our panel share their hots and nots from the week.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said by.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's kind of our Friday and Thursday show put together,
so we thought we'd have Friday face off so we
could look at back at what we've been talking about
during the week and look forward to what we can
expect to have over Easter week. Enjoining me is Mark
Sainsbury broadcasts broadcasting legend. I can't even say the word.
I can't in your presence. I feel a little bit nervous.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Just treat me as an ordinary person.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
As a great Wellington bloke and Ken Laban talking about
great Wellington bloke, hot city mayor morning.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Good morning. Last time I saw Mark Sainsbury he was
wearing fish net stockings in a mini skirt and he
was the narrator of the Rocky Horror Picture Show and
I went to the one in Hamilton few years Yeah
there was yeah, Yeah, that was fantastic. There was something
outside your wheelhouse. So more than more than a more
than a broadcaster, an actor, entertainer, charismatic.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I think next to drawing a mental picture, knees and
the sighe to what I've seen up close oh, must
be with you both.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Like Sage Free and Stockings. Come on, tell me that's
not true.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
No, it was true. It was true, true, And yeah,
the old stuckness for a big final act, you know,
as the narrator. So it was good. It was a
really interesting thing to do, you know, because I'd never
done anything on stage or.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
So you can do TV work and you might have
you know, hundreds of thousands of people. It's fine, you're
used to it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Seven hundred thousand people TV one.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When you when you step out on the stage to
a few hundred people.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
It's a totally different thing. I thought you did a
great job.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Enjoyed were at the final show movie he was at
the final show, Yeah, you said.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Richie came to Grace was sitting in a couple of
rows behind us, your producer and and Richard organized some seats.
Are fantastic seats, and we went out. We had something
to eat afterwards.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
We need more of those. That's what Wellington. Then we're
talking about hot snots and what we need to do
in the city. We need more show music, performing arts events. Fabulous,
you know, whether it's Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, the
Rocky Horror Picture show, you know New York New or
any of those things. Fabulous. That's what we need to
get the city buzzing again.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I just can't get over it. Grace got invited to
the final night and sat beside.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You and I didn't. It's that good that show.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Do you really need to work?
Speaker 5 (02:33):
You're talking to the wrong people, mate, You've got to
move in bigger circles now.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Just before we went on here, we had a chat
like we always do on Friday, face Off. In fact,
it becomes more part of the show than anything else,
the discussions that we have, and we were talking about
five of the sixteen Wellington City Council didn't attend the
blessing of their new officers.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
There's been many excuses.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I'm saying that they were boycotting it due to the
location and their offices on the level one instead of
the top floor. Mar Sainsbury tell us, when you first read.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
This and looked at this, what you of it?
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Well?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, when I first read it, I thought, oh, there
was a bunch of petulant and titled counselors that sort
of didn't get the good seats, and you got to
think Okay, if you build a building, who is at four?
I mean, you've got an administration has to run things.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
They've got to be looked after.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
So at first I thought it was a little bit
sort of petulant, but once again it was almost like
it's the officials, the unelected officials are stead of ruling
the roost and the and our representatives. Of course, that
top floor be no good for you, Nick, you know I'd.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Rather be level Yeah, I'd be good a level one.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
So look, it's just it doesn't look flash. And then
people boycotting the blessing. I mean it used to be
that was considered something quite important.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well why didn't they?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean I just said this morning, why didn't Andrew
Little just put it right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Why don't you just fix it?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
What did they say there was safety concerns? Is that
one of the reasons why they put all the MPs
closer to the public than anyone else.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Now, Ken Laban, you're not a gloater, you're not a
skitte in any for more anyway, right, but you're verging
on skyting about your office. I mean, you helped me out.
I'm embarrassed, he actually said, but could you repeat the
(04:23):
word he said about Chris Lux And so it's not
me GSD.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Can you what do you say his office is.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
I've been, I've been a Christmas office. My office is
better than his. And I'm bike comparison. I'm only the
mirror of I'm only the mireor of lower hat. But
I've got a I've got a lounge, I've got a boardroom,
I've got somewhere obviously whe where I said. I've got
a deck, I've got a walk in wardrobe, and i've
got an on suite. I've got the best office in
(04:50):
the hot City Council building, over over three floors. So
and I never, you know, you never think about what
does my office look like when you're running it, when
you're running a campaign, But you know, if it's any
it's any consolation. I have had the privilege of hosting
some very very important international guests, which is part of
the role ambassadors high commissioners and talking about collaborations and
(05:13):
what our relationships are with near neighbors and far neighbors.
So I can absolutely understand the importance. And I would
have thought not that it's for me to judge the
designers of the Wellington City Council building. But I would
have thought that Andrew Little, as mayor of Wellington City,
probably outside of Auckland, the most significant mayoralty position to
(05:36):
hold in our country, would have a corner office that
overlooks the harbor for all the same reason that I've
alluded to in terms of the importance of both the
subjects and the people that he meets.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Normally, it's not something that I mean that the layout
of an office you know, you wouldn't think is going
to be that sort of controversial. We had a thing
at tv EN years ago. We moved into a new
building and the boss at the time was looking at
the blueprints of the plans. It's right, I'm having that
the corner office for a fantastic for you. He had
it upside down, so he ended up in the back
(06:12):
corner over the car park, in the air conditioning plant.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Did he move He had this is because he.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
The whole sign of his office in the in the
opposite place to what he thought it was going to.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Now I know Ken Laban, because I know you very well, right,
I have to say I know you very well. You
would not give a rats backside if you were in
the corner dungeon. In fact, you would prefer to be
in the corner dungeon because you would be looking after
your people. But if you didn't like it, what would
you do?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Well, I would have well, I don't know, it would
be this would be an embarrassing situation for Andrew personally,
because he wouldn't want to go and then say that
the office is not good enough. But I would have
thought that the people who designed it, the people who
were making the decision, would understand the importance and their
significance of the office that he holds, you know, both
from a from a status and prestige point of view too,
(07:05):
and that where he was asked on a daily basis
would be a reflection of that. So I could absolutely
understand that, well, if I had anything to do with
the design of that, the Mayor of Wellington would have
the best office in the city.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
The other thing that concerns me is that I've spent
many an hour and many a day in licensing hearings
which are done in councils. That in Wellington's Council where
they are presently is on the seventeenth or eighteenth floor
with a.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Mass, massive view. Now you don't need a hearing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You don't need a lack of licensing hearing that lasts
two days in someway that you're looking out of the
view all day, do you.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Mark No?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
You look at that view from the pictures I've seen
of it, you know, it's sort of a magnificent view
for those who like, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Views, high views. Nick.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
But and you'd think if you're going to have, you know,
if you're receiving visitors are doing something. I mean, okay,
I didn't it be an office. I could have made
that into the official greeting area or a sort of
a function area. It seems a waste to throw away
such a fantastic same waste on the workers. But there
was an opportunity there to have done such a showcase.
One showcase, welling and accepting it Friday.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Face off on a Thursday with Ken Laban and Mark Sainsbury, Right,
let's talk. Tim Costly is launching an inquiry into the
issues with the fleet of Fens. You know, they reckon
that some of the new builds haven't turned up and
are turning up wrong, and the old machinery is too old,
and the actual directors and the chair are given themselves
(08:34):
a seventy nine percent pay increase. Some board members during
they haven't apparently haven't had a pay rise for a while.
Ken Laban, what do you make of this whole thing?
I mean, it's sixteen months. The fire fighters have also
been fighting for a pay rise. Is this an organization
that needs a full inquiry into they do?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I've been on the picket line. Just in case people
think I've got a conflict of interest, I've been on
the packet line out a nine eye opposite nine I
College and support of the support of the firefighters strata
because of the state of the equipment, the state of
their buildings and their pay and the Waterloo many of
you will remember the Waterloo fire station on water rot existe.
(09:17):
Bernard's College has been closed as a smaller one at Seaview.
They're frustrated. I believe that we are one fire station
short of adequately covering hot city. I see, I'm very
selfish there with my heart city, heart city focused and
and of course the state of the state of the
vehicles and many of them are are assigned, assigned written
(09:39):
and reflecting that. So there there is frustration amongst a
professional paid fire service one hundred percent of support for
the for the for the role that for the role
that they play. And it is a it is a
bad lot when there's a significant increase for the directors
when we all know that at the at the front
line level, our staff and the facilities are not great.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And the other thing mark when you actually boil it down.
Fire five in New Zealand's done one hell of a
lot by things called volunteers that are getting nothing, you know,
right round New Zealand. And yet your board's getting a
seventy nine percent increase. I mean, how does that make
that guy that's putting his tools down in his garage
and running off to the local fire station to save life.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I think everyone is just going to be absolutely just
pessed off with this buddy thing. I mean when you
look at it, and it may well be a case
to say, look, you've got to catch up. They haven't
had pay rises. We've got to keep it. But sorry,
just you know, step outside and sniff the air. You've
got five fighters for eighteen months. And who no one
hates a firefighter. You know, no one hates a fire fighter. Okay,
(10:45):
because they put they put their like exactly ken they
put their lives on the line. So I cannot comprehend
how anyone I think it's Brook van Valven who sort
of is the minister in charge who approved it, how
anyone can think.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
This was appropriate.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Sort out the strike first, then do whatever with your
pay rises. Yeah, it's just it's unconscionable.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you both agree that we need something more than
just talk? Do we need a full on inquiry?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Or these were the equipment failures? And I'm saying that
they import some new trucks and they couldn't fit all
the gear.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
On it when it come.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Some came from England, they had to go back to England,
and some are sitting in a farm up in Auckland
and a brand new that haven't been used. When you know,
you watch them go past you in the street and
you know they're old duggers, you know.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Not to mention the cost of petrol and fuel that's
got to go in them now yeah, and on the
balloon goes up.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So I mean no, they definitely need someone that they
need to look into persist. Just so many failures and
I don't like the feeling, and I don't believe these
guys are lying to us that we are not edequately paid,
but in terms of our own safety, you know, they
haven't equipped the fire fighters and that really worries.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Me because it could be your house or my house
or kens.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
So they need to give us a seventy six percent
improvement in their governance and decision making as well. That
will be interesting, Nick.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Well, I mean, obviously there is no improvement. I've been
doing this job five years and I reckon that there
hasn't been in six months that's gone past that we
haven't done a story on fens or the lack of
resources going into firefighting in New Zealand. You know, it's
just it seems like it's time now that we really
looked at it and said, okay, the system that we've
(12:22):
grown up with and has worked for centuries isn't working anymore,
you know, Percy, Right, let's move on with St. Peters
has just flown over to Raratama to make an agreement
with Prime Minister Mark Brown. Now I'm all down for
this being cleaned up. You know, Ken, you'll have a
clearer view on this. What went on with the Chinese
money being put in and Raratonga looking like they were
(12:45):
stubbing New Zealand and we're very very close. We probably
have the closest Pacific island connection with the Cook Islands
and anyone in the islands do we am?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
I right, it's still a territory of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So you know, there was an issue and it needed
to be fixed up, and it has been fixed up.
When we congratulate them for that, but do we need
to send an air force even seven over there when
we're all mindful of where we are in the world
with hell right now?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Firstly, on the you mentioned China, I've been regularly traveling
to the Pacific since two thousand and seven to commentate
at the at the Pacific Games in Pacific Mini Games.
So I've been to salm Or, Fiji, Papua, New Guinea,
(13:33):
New Caledonia, and one thing I've noticed in recent times
is that it was almost exclusively New Zealand dollars that
they would talk about their GDP in and then after
that it moved towards Australia. And then in the last
couple of trips I've had over there, there has been
a growing influence of Chinese money in the in the Pacific,
(13:57):
and then there was that controversy over Mark Brown and
the Cook Island government doing that, doing that deal with
China much to the ire of one. And Winston, of course,
is a longtime Minister of Foreign Affairs, dating back to
Helen Clark's government. He himself is a legend in the Pacific.
He got a title from some More long before any
(14:18):
other time, long before other mp or prime minister got one.
And I know from my sister women who traveled extensively
around the Pacific with him there. So New Zealand is
very nervous that Cook Islands don't do a deal with
China at the expense of the relationship that they have
with New Zealand. So if you were looking for a
political reason why he would go over there to make
(14:40):
that point strongly to not only to the Prime Minister
but to his cabinet, I would think that that would
be one of the strong points on his agenda for
doing that, and only that because of the influence that
China have in the Pacific, which is growing as we speak.
Some more up here park And there's a village in
some More calld Faliata which has been turned into essentially
(15:01):
a mini Olympic village. Absolute state of the football field
Olympic swimming pool iving Paul magnificence, all funded by China,
and I think they took They donated one hundred and
thirty seven vehicles which included I think over one hundred evans,
and at the conclusion of the Games, which were two
and a half weeks, they left all the vehicles there.
(15:22):
So there was major influence from the Chinese government in
the Pacific, and there would be major concern especially in
Australia and New Zealand. Hence that massive deal that was
done for Rugby recently when the Minister Penny Wong was
an up here. Again that's a direct result to try
and make sure that some more state law to Australia
and in New Zealand. All right, you.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Didn't mention the plane trip though, Mark, Well.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
See the plane trip. I think I agree with Ken.
There's good reasons for him to go then and be
seen there, and it's all to do lots to do
with Marna and respect and everything like that. But and
this is I was listening to you Nick when you're
talking hit those figures to spend one hundred and fifty
that's the baseline, that's the least at least one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars to fly from Auckland to to
(16:11):
row tolerant back.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
We talked before about with the firefighters and being tone
deaf about sort of things that are going on. That's
but surely they've got to got a commercial flight or
you can hire probably a leergicic go over there for
a lot there.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It seems a bit profligate.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, understand the sentiment, agree that he should go, but
why do they need to spend.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
All that money?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I think we all do, But I mean there's got
to be some common sense when we're trying to be
careful and be smart about the storage of our fuels, isn't.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
It kid, Yes, well, obviously it's even more so now
given the situation we're in. We'll that the world is
in now with fuel and people. Obviously you're going to
ask questions about whether or not the amount of the
cost justified what benefits there were? And you know, as
I said in the break, could we have done it
on zoom?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Well?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And I know I think that we both all three
of us understand the Polynesia way of man to man,
woman to and face to face.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I mean we all understand that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But surely I've heard there was as few as six
or seven on the plane. You know, it's a big
seven five seven to fly over there to do that
particular deal. But I'm glad it has done as you said,
So right, Ken Friday face off on a Thursday. Ken
Laban and Mark Sainsbury talking about good voices. Sainsbury, I
think you both got great voices, by the way, so
(17:32):
let's talk about something that Ken, you might have been
in the police force when this all went down. David
Tamahead's conviction for the double murder of Swedish tourists has
been squashed by the Supreme Court due to the miscarriage
of justice during his trial. Now the Crown, Ken, I'm
going to start with you on this one need to
decide whether it goes to a retrial or not. I
(17:53):
said when we talked about this the other day, I
don't believe it will your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Well, if the conviction's been been quashed and as we
all know, it's beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't think
you to get a conviction. I think it's been too long.
I know there's been a lot of speculation. I'm not
familiar with all of the evidence. But I would have
thought that if there was safety in the previous decision
(18:18):
that had been handed down, the Supreme Court would have
endorsed it. And they haven't. That is a big, big
sign towards not being beyond a reasonable doubt in my view.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right Mark Sainsbury, Yeah, I mean it's this case.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I mean, it's so almost part of our lives has
gone on. It has gone on so long. But I
was disturbed. I remember when they finally found his body
after years and years, and on his arm, on his
wrist was this watch. Which part of the police case
was that Tamma Harry given that watch to his son
as a birthday present or something. And then you know,
(18:52):
this is all part of the thing. Then they had
the jail house snitch, lots of unsafe things around it,
you know. And if they don't reopen, if they don't
charge it again, he'll be even though he had already
been at the program of mercy, it's still up in
the air. It's still going to be It's not definitive.
Is that People still going to.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Go saying that he's been convicted, But it was it
was not the right way. There's mistakes and the way
that it went. So it doesn't mean that he was innocent, does.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
It doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It means it means that they still have.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
To prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So that So the thing that I want to get
to the bottom of, Mark, and I'll come to you
first on this, is that horrible word compensation. Does he
get compensation based on that he's not proven innocent but
he's not proven guilty.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Look, it's a really tricky one because you would have to,
I thought, to get compensation it has to be you know,
normally they point a case or someone to look into
it and make a recommendation to the minister. But usually
it has to be because there's a you know, it's
not just beyond reasonable doubt, it's a substantial you know,
substantial issues that that do point to his innocence in
(20:02):
this case.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, so I.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Haven't Do you think he should get comp No? Well, yeah,
I say that glibly, but I'd like to see what
I read the full decision in terms of what their
reasoning wasn't.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
If they can't prove, they can't prove that he did it,
And clearly that's what the Supreme Court is saying he
will be entitled to compensation. Really, so he will be
entitled to compensation, right.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, that's the thought move on a sex worker. Adficacy
group are saying that their chairperson was denied from candidacy
for the Green Party because of their work as an
experience as a sex worker. The Greens are denying it,
but they can't say why they did not accept her
during because of confidentiality. Now, and one of the things
(20:51):
that got to me on this whole question when they
were questioning her the Green Party whether they wanted her
it or not. Out of twenty seven questions, twenty one
were about her sex work. Mark, I'm looking at you
to start this one off. We've also had Chrisshup on
the show saying that the idea of MMP is to
get diversity into parliament and surely Chris Hipkins.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Get it right.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Nick had said that we need more people in parliament.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, well, I can remember when I came back from
when I was in the UK and I came back
here and there was a big fuss going on because
of Alamin Kopu. Remember who was the I think she
was an alliance MP who jumped ship and with Shipley,
and she had been a subject of quite controversy because
she'd been on the she was a beneficiary and everyone
was going on about, oh, this person shouldn't be in parliament.
(21:38):
There a beneficiary. I've always believed that Parliament supposed to
be representative of the people, and I'd apply the same
thing to someone who was a sex worker.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It is legal.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
We have changed out, We've got to graph as a society.
It would seem completely wrong to sort of say to someone, well,
we're not going to give you the nomination because you're
a sex worker. Be like saying we're not going to
give you the accommodation because you're a seventh adventist store whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And this particular person had been working and doing work
for the Greens Party, you know, but you know, twenty
one question is about her sex work. On twenty out
of twenty seven. Ken Labor not very.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Woke, one hundred percent agree with both of you over
the importance of diversity. And isn't it a cheap headline? Nick?
Isn't it to get it? Get it out there on
social media, get it out there on mainstream media, get
it talked about on Friday face off. It's an indirect
form of bullying. Look over the list of dodgy people
(22:35):
that have served as our parliamentary representatives in the past,
and we're talking about a sex worker who, you know,
because of the change in the change in legislations, are
perfectly legitimate career to have. And you know, if we
want to have diversity of thought, diversity of ideas and
diversity of debate, then has to be reflected to the
people that sit around the table. Otherwise we just go
(22:58):
back to the old days where it's just white middle
class men, smug ands and gas. Well, we're long past
those days, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You know, well, hopefully we are.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Hopefully we are.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I hope you're coming back.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
That's still there.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
So, I mean, Mark, were you surprised that there was
the Green Party that was doing.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I said before, it's sort of not very woke, and
that's sort of something that is sort are pretty renowned
for and that sort of belief in, you know, having
bringing everyone and you know, people who are unusual or different.
It shouldn't make any difference to the Green Do you
think they'd be the most tolerant.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yes, take a short break and be back with Mark
Sainsbury and Ken Laban. I want to talk about the
Basin Reserve, whether we can make that into a true
international facility that we could play T twenty at and
probably play some Hurricanes games there some Phoenix games. They
want to talk ask you about that Friday face off
on a Thursday with Ken Laban and Mark Sainsbury. There's
(23:54):
been a bit of talk over the last couple of
well this week with the T twenty competition that they're
talking about launching and having all these million dollar millionaires
coming into New Zealand starting this competition. And where would
we play in Wellington? Would we play at Henry Stadium
or would we play at the Basin Basement. Would have
to be during the day and they wanted at night.
Ken Laban, I spoke to Frano Bizzalo, who's an ex
(24:18):
Wellingtonian who works as an architect on the major stadiums
in the world right now based in London. He said
that you could actually do a lot with the base
in Reserve.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Absolutely? I agree. There's a lot of talk around what
should we do about poor Park given that nobody's going
to watch the Lions in the NPC, and there's been
declining crowds at the Hurricanes in recent years, although they're
getting good crowds this year and they're winning. What should
we do in the Heart, at at the Heart Recreation
Ground and at Fraser Park, And every conversation is around
(24:51):
we need something smaller, but that's new money. And I
look at the I look at the basin capacity. I
think thirteen thousand at the base.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Now, but I think it's down in abound about six
or seven now really.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Well, which is which is actually the size that everybody
else is talking about in terms of what we need
given the enormous cost to hire Henry Stadium. So absolutely
I see the Basin Reserve as a key as a
key stadium in our region that potentially the Lions could
play there, also the Phoenix could could play there, and
(25:27):
if they could make twenty twenty work there, I'm a
bit I'm a bit cynical about you know, getting the
world's great players to come and play in Wellington really
is very care and all those guys who are on
million dollar plus in the IPL going to come to
Liddle Lowe, Wellington and the needing to play T twenty.
You know, the average salary for the Big Bash in
(25:47):
Australia with four hundred grand three million salary. Care I
can't you know, I can't see it, but I definitely
see it as a potential for smaller concerts, games and
teams that attract smaller crowds to create that God is
a magnificent place to be, as is the stadium when
it's full. You is not fall often enough.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Can I quickly just ask before I come to your Mark,
I'm just going to quickly ask you. There's a lot
of been a lot of talk in the underground about
the Phoenix and Fraser Park building something pretty significant there
is that? Is that a can you talk about it?
Is that a talk I could?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
But I'll tell you what would be better for the
for the heart rate payer would be for the Phoenix
to transfer to the Basin Reserve.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Really.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Oh, so that's you saying you don't want it to go, Mark, Well,
that's just what I'm taking on it. Don't don't see
me tomorrow, Mark.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Look, I have also, I guess that's almost like an
emotional attachment to the base and it's sort of you know,
and things that I've been to there.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, I'm not a big.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
I've been to a big a bit of a cricket there, doubt,
and they're just lying out there having a great time
on the grass. It was really really relaxing. But as
Ken says, it depends you need that critical mass of
people in there to make it work. I think if
they can find a way to preserve and utilize the
base reserve, they should. It's just such a unique It's
just you think people are coming, Visitors are going, what
the hell is that? Oh no, that's a cricket ground.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
What's almost the heartbeat of wanting to Yeah, it is, Ken,
I'm glad. I just want to also ask you because
I've been thinking exactly the same thing. But everyone around
here and everyone I speak to is thinks that these
millionaire owners of this new tea tourning you're going to
make it work. I mean, you've been around sport long enough,
and I've been around sport long enough, and you know,
I was thinking about writing a letter, open letter to
(27:33):
the Herald saying I'll pay one dollar for a team
because that's what they'll be worth.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
No, that's right, and if they want, you know, they
can have a T twenty competition. But if they want
to have a T twenty competition on the lines that
they want us to believe that they're going to have,
then you're going to need the world's best players. You're
not going to get the world's best players by offering
them to ice creams in the count of CoA. You
know what I mean. These guys are on. These guys
and girls they are on. They are on big money,
playing in glamorous teams in front of huge crowds. You
(28:01):
know that, Well, we just I guarantee you that they
don't have the commercial support to be able to put
a petition of that level together. You know, it would
be like us trying to you and I trying to
start our own NRL competition, or we're just deluding.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
NBA or NBA NBA. You know, let's be real.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Let's be exactly real and.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Mark, someone told me a story, and someone credible told
me a story that sixty or seventy percent of every
dollar in cricket worldwide comes out of one country, India exact.
So how are they going to bring it all over
here and make it work?
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Anyone got any ideas?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
No, they won't. They just they're just it's a con i.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Wouldn't even waste a dollar.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I thought I could put a Saints cricket team together.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Well, if anyone could, you could joking, joking, joking.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Joking the Friday.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Hot. Okay, this is a time where we ask our
guests today, Mark Sainsbury and Ken Laburn, what they're hots
and knots, what they really were pleased about in the
last couple of weeks, and what they're not So please Mark,
I'm looking straight that you come on.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
We'll start with what I'm not pleased about. And it's
just doing my head. And that is Cambridge Terrace. If
you're coming into town and you make the mistake of
turning indic and I had to go down there to
see a locksmith and go and see him mate Miles
and that sort of thing, and there's cure is it's
just so badly designed and you're stuck there and even
gets frustrated. I tried jumping at a couple of times
(29:28):
to two hundred dollars tickets through the mail. Soon put
a stop to that. Yeah, So that's that's my not
just I keep thinking this is going to get better
and it doesn't. My hot is TV three on demand.
But you know, you're constant. He's seen anything, and I've
seen that before.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
What are you going to watch?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
There's a series called Crackhead written by Holly Shirvey who
stars in it, and she is just a basket case,
you know, drug addict, you know, party animals doing all
the wrong things and anyway, I won't spoil it, but
it is so well acted, so well rittracked and really
great Crankhead plus.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, okay, all right, we've got it. Thanks Mark, appreciate that.
Ken Layman, what are your hots and notts? What are
your play and what are you not so pleased about?
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Firstly, I just want to acknowledge Touch New Zealand, the
New Zealand Softball and the News and Gaelic Games Association.
Those three organizations have brought significant events to Hut in
the last couple of weekends, our hotels, motels, bars, restaurants,
if really it's well in excess of two thousand visitors
(30:28):
to the Hut over that time. The use of our
facilities at Fraser Park and Hut Park has been fantastic,
and I just want to acknowledge those that were involved
in the decisions to bring them to bring them out,
which is fit fabulous for our own form of sporting
Cooper duper you could say, and what's not is very similar.
We're having congestion issues and the heart as well with
(30:50):
our major works going on with other program I know
you're getting a few calls. This is the first. This
is the first media that I've done where I haven't
been grilled about it, so I appreciate it. Have an
hour with you on that. And obviously the uncertainty that's
caused around the fuel situation is a bit of drama
for everywhere. I'm not only here in New Zealand but
around the world.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But you are having specific problems out there. I mean,
I'm hearing all the time at my office manager lives
in the hut and she leaves now, she leaves work
now at three o'clock to get home at five.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
That's not right, telling the cat's to train.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
It's oh, that's not very nice.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That's not very nice, because did you just really really
quickly did either of you? You mentioned it, koober doo,
but did either either of you go? Of course you
and the gone Ken that would have been a tripp
to down. No, No, it's something I sign I was
quite keen to get down, but the sun went and
all his mates and they always had a great time.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yeah. Well, fabulous events. Twenty thousand people, four million injection
into the local economy, what did I see? Three point
seven million or something in transactions as well. Direct impact
on the economy was significant, So well done. Magnificent event.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Ken Laban talking about well done.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Great to have you in the student in present in
the studio and doing Friday face Off. You're going to
be a regular now, Ken Laban, Mark Sainsbury, you know
that you're in the resident band. You're you're the one
that we call on when we need a hit record out.
So thanks to both you have both you and your
your families and your eyeing A and your Fano have
a very very good little breakover Easter and happy Easter.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Insane to you Nick and your family and to all
your audience.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
You know, have a great weekend. And on MONWHEELI I
saw that's salmon for I have a.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nice day, puffer Ti Telly Lava.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Oh thank you very much, which means thank you very
strong salmon connection with us.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Three For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said by.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's kind of our Friday and Thursday show put together,
so we thought we'd have Friday face off so we
could look at back at what we've been talking about
during the week and look forward to what we can
expect to have over Easter week. Enjoining me is Mark
Sainsbury broadcasts broadcasting legend. I can't even say the word.
I can't in your presence. I feel a little bit nervous.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Just treat me as an ordinary person.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
As a great Wellington bloke and Ken Laban talking about
great Wellington bloke, hot city mayor morning.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Good morning. Last time I saw Mark Sainsbury he was
wearing fish net stockings in a mini skirt and he
was the narrator of the Rocky Horror Picture Show and
I went to the one in Hamilton few years Yeah
there was yeah, Yeah, that was fantastic. There was something
outside your wheelhouse. So more than more than a more
than a broadcaster, an actor, entertainer, charismatic.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I think next to drawing a mental picture, knees and
the sighe to what I've seen up close oh, must
be with you both.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Like Sage Free and Stockings. Come on, tell me that's
not true.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
No, it was true. It was true, true, And yeah,
the old stuckness for a big final act, you know,
as the narrator. So it was good. It was a
really interesting thing to do, you know, because I'd never
done anything on stage or.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
So you can do TV work and you might have
you know, hundreds of thousands of people. It's fine, you're
used to it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Seven hundred thousand people TV one.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When you when you step out on the stage to
a few hundred people.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
It's a totally different thing. I thought you did a
great job.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Enjoyed were at the final show movie he was at
the final show, Yeah, you said.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Richie came to Grace was sitting in a couple of
rows behind us, your producer and and Richard organized some seats.
Are fantastic seats, and we went out. We had something
to eat afterwards.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
We need more of those. That's what Wellington. Then we're
talking about hot snots and what we need to do
in the city. We need more show music, performing arts events. Fabulous,
you know, whether it's Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, the
Rocky Horror Picture show, you know New York New or
any of those things. Fabulous. That's what we need to
get the city buzzing again.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I just can't get over it. Grace got invited to
the final night and sat beside.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You and I didn't. It's that good that show.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Do you really need to work?
Speaker 5 (02:33):
You're talking to the wrong people, mate, You've got to
move in bigger circles now.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Just before we went on here, we had a chat
like we always do on Friday, face Off. In fact,
it becomes more part of the show than anything else,
the discussions that we have, and we were talking about
five of the sixteen Wellington City Council didn't attend the
blessing of their new officers.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
There's been many excuses.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I'm saying that they were boycotting it due to the
location and their offices on the level one instead of
the top floor. Mar Sainsbury tell us, when you first read.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
This and looked at this, what you of it?
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Well?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, when I first read it, I thought, oh, there
was a bunch of petulant and titled counselors that sort
of didn't get the good seats, and you got to
think Okay, if you build a building, who is at four?
I mean, you've got an administration has to run things.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
They've got to be looked after.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
So at first I thought it was a little bit
sort of petulant, but once again it was almost like
it's the officials, the unelected officials are stead of ruling
the roost and the and our representatives. Of course, that
top floor be no good for you, Nick, you know I'd.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Rather be level Yeah, I'd be good a level one.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
So look, it's just it doesn't look flash. And then
people boycotting the blessing. I mean it used to be
that was considered something quite important.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well why didn't they?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean I just said this morning, why didn't Andrew
Little just put it right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Why don't you just fix it?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
What did they say there was safety concerns? Is that
one of the reasons why they put all the MPs
closer to the public than anyone else.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Now, Ken Laban, you're not a gloater, you're not a
skitte in any for more anyway, right, but you're verging
on skyting about your office. I mean, you helped me out.
I'm embarrassed, he actually said, but could you repeat the
(04:23):
word he said about Chris Lux And so it's not
me GSD.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Can you what do you say his office is.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
I've been, I've been a Christmas office. My office is
better than his. And I'm bike comparison. I'm only the
mirror of I'm only the mireor of lower hat. But
I've got a I've got a lounge, I've got a boardroom,
I've got somewhere obviously whe where I said. I've got
a deck, I've got a walk in wardrobe, and i've
got an on suite. I've got the best office in
(04:50):
the hot City Council building, over over three floors. So
and I never, you know, you never think about what
does my office look like when you're running it, when
you're running a campaign, But you know, if it's any
it's any consolation. I have had the privilege of hosting
some very very important international guests, which is part of
the role ambassadors high commissioners and talking about collaborations and
(05:13):
what our relationships are with near neighbors and far neighbors.
So I can absolutely understand the importance. And I would
have thought not that it's for me to judge the
designers of the Wellington City Council building. But I would
have thought that Andrew Little, as mayor of Wellington City,
probably outside of Auckland, the most significant mayoralty position to
(05:36):
hold in our country, would have a corner office that
overlooks the harbor for all the same reason that I've
alluded to in terms of the importance of both the
subjects and the people that he meets.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Normally, it's not something that I mean that the layout
of an office you know, you wouldn't think is going
to be that sort of controversial. We had a thing
at tv EN years ago. We moved into a new
building and the boss at the time was looking at
the blueprints of the plans. It's right, I'm having that
the corner office for a fantastic for you. He had
it upside down, so he ended up in the back
(06:12):
corner over the car park, in the air conditioning plant.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Did he move He had this is because he.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
The whole sign of his office in the in the
opposite place to what he thought it was going to.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Now I know Ken Laban, because I know you very well, right,
I have to say I know you very well. You
would not give a rats backside if you were in
the corner dungeon. In fact, you would prefer to be
in the corner dungeon because you would be looking after
your people. But if you didn't like it, what would
you do?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Well, I would have well, I don't know, it would
be this would be an embarrassing situation for Andrew personally,
because he wouldn't want to go and then say that
the office is not good enough. But I would have
thought that the people who designed it, the people who
were making the decision, would understand the importance and their
significance of the office that he holds, you know, both
from a from a status and prestige point of view too,
(07:05):
and that where he was asked on a daily basis
would be a reflection of that. So I could absolutely
understand that, well, if I had anything to do with
the design of that, the Mayor of Wellington would have
the best office in the city.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
The other thing that concerns me is that I've spent
many an hour and many a day in licensing hearings
which are done in councils. That in Wellington's Council where
they are presently is on the seventeenth or eighteenth floor
with a.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Mass, massive view. Now you don't need a hearing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You don't need a lack of licensing hearing that lasts
two days in someway that you're looking out of the
view all day, do you.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Mark No?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
You look at that view from the pictures I've seen
of it, you know, it's sort of a magnificent view
for those who like, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Views, high views. Nick.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
But and you'd think if you're going to have, you know,
if you're receiving visitors are doing something. I mean, okay,
I didn't it be an office. I could have made
that into the official greeting area or a sort of
a function area. It seems a waste to throw away
such a fantastic same waste on the workers. But there
was an opportunity there to have done such a showcase.
One showcase, welling and accepting it Friday.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Face off on a Thursday with Ken Laban and Mark Sainsbury, Right,
let's talk. Tim Costly is launching an inquiry into the
issues with the fleet of Fens. You know, they reckon
that some of the new builds haven't turned up and
are turning up wrong, and the old machinery is too old,
and the actual directors and the chair are given themselves
(08:34):
a seventy nine percent pay increase. Some board members during
they haven't apparently haven't had a pay rise for a while.
Ken Laban, what do you make of this whole thing?
I mean, it's sixteen months. The fire fighters have also
been fighting for a pay rise. Is this an organization
that needs a full inquiry into they do?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I've been on the picket line. Just in case people
think I've got a conflict of interest, I've been on
the packet line out a nine eye opposite nine I
College and support of the support of the firefighters strata
because of the state of the equipment, the state of
their buildings and their pay and the Waterloo many of
you will remember the Waterloo fire station on water rot existe.
(09:17):
Bernard's College has been closed as a smaller one at Seaview.
They're frustrated. I believe that we are one fire station
short of adequately covering hot city. I see, I'm very
selfish there with my heart city, heart city focused and
and of course the state of the state of the
vehicles and many of them are are assigned, assigned written
(09:39):
and reflecting that. So there there is frustration amongst a
professional paid fire service one hundred percent of support for
the for the for the role that for the role
that they play. And it is a it is a
bad lot when there's a significant increase for the directors
when we all know that at the at the front
line level, our staff and the facilities are not great.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And the other thing mark when you actually boil it down.
Fire five in New Zealand's done one hell of a
lot by things called volunteers that are getting nothing, you know,
right round New Zealand. And yet your board's getting a
seventy nine percent increase. I mean, how does that make
that guy that's putting his tools down in his garage
and running off to the local fire station to save life.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I think everyone is just going to be absolutely just
pessed off with this buddy thing. I mean when you
look at it, and it may well be a case
to say, look, you've got to catch up. They haven't
had pay rises. We've got to keep it. But sorry,
just you know, step outside and sniff the air. You've
got five fighters for eighteen months. And who no one
hates a firefighter. You know, no one hates a fire fighter. Okay,
(10:45):
because they put they put their like exactly ken they
put their lives on the line. So I cannot comprehend
how anyone I think it's Brook van Valven who sort
of is the minister in charge who approved it, how
anyone can think.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
This was appropriate.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Sort out the strike first, then do whatever with your
pay rises. Yeah, it's just it's unconscionable.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you both agree that we need something more than
just talk? Do we need a full on inquiry?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Or these were the equipment failures? And I'm saying that
they import some new trucks and they couldn't fit all
the gear.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
On it when it come.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Some came from England, they had to go back to England,
and some are sitting in a farm up in Auckland
and a brand new that haven't been used. When you know,
you watch them go past you in the street and
you know they're old duggers, you know.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Not to mention the cost of petrol and fuel that's
got to go in them now yeah, and on the
balloon goes up.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So I mean no, they definitely need someone that they
need to look into persist. Just so many failures and
I don't like the feeling, and I don't believe these
guys are lying to us that we are not edequately paid,
but in terms of our own safety, you know, they
haven't equipped the fire fighters and that really worries.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Me because it could be your house or my house
or kens.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
So they need to give us a seventy six percent
improvement in their governance and decision making as well. That
will be interesting, Nick.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Well, I mean, obviously there is no improvement. I've been
doing this job five years and I reckon that there
hasn't been in six months that's gone past that we
haven't done a story on fens or the lack of
resources going into firefighting in New Zealand. You know, it's
just it seems like it's time now that we really
looked at it and said, okay, the system that we've
(12:22):
grown up with and has worked for centuries isn't working anymore,
you know, Percy, Right, let's move on with St. Peters
has just flown over to Raratama to make an agreement
with Prime Minister Mark Brown. Now I'm all down for
this being cleaned up. You know, Ken, you'll have a
clearer view on this. What went on with the Chinese
money being put in and Raratonga looking like they were
(12:45):
stubbing New Zealand and we're very very close. We probably
have the closest Pacific island connection with the Cook Islands
and anyone in the islands do we am?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
I right, it's still a territory of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So you know, there was an issue and it needed
to be fixed up, and it has been fixed up.
When we congratulate them for that, but do we need
to send an air force even seven over there when
we're all mindful of where we are in the world
with hell right now?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Firstly, on the you mentioned China, I've been regularly traveling
to the Pacific since two thousand and seven to commentate
at the at the Pacific Games in Pacific Mini Games.
So I've been to salm Or, Fiji, Papua, New Guinea,
(13:33):
New Caledonia, and one thing I've noticed in recent times
is that it was almost exclusively New Zealand dollars that
they would talk about their GDP in and then after
that it moved towards Australia. And then in the last
couple of trips I've had over there, there has been
a growing influence of Chinese money in the in the Pacific,
(13:57):
and then there was that controversy over Mark Brown and
the Cook Island government doing that, doing that deal with
China much to the ire of one. And Winston, of course,
is a longtime Minister of Foreign Affairs, dating back to
Helen Clark's government. He himself is a legend in the Pacific.
He got a title from some More long before any
(14:18):
other time, long before other mp or prime minister got one.
And I know from my sister women who traveled extensively
around the Pacific with him there. So New Zealand is
very nervous that Cook Islands don't do a deal with
China at the expense of the relationship that they have
with New Zealand. So if you were looking for a
political reason why he would go over there to make
(14:40):
that point strongly to not only to the Prime Minister
but to his cabinet, I would think that that would
be one of the strong points on his agenda for
doing that, and only that because of the influence that
China have in the Pacific, which is growing as we speak.
Some more up here park And there's a village in
some More calld Faliata which has been turned into essentially
(15:01):
a mini Olympic village. Absolute state of the football field
Olympic swimming pool iving Paul magnificence, all funded by China,
and I think they took They donated one hundred and
thirty seven vehicles which included I think over one hundred evans,
and at the conclusion of the Games, which were two
and a half weeks, they left all the vehicles there.
(15:22):
So there was major influence from the Chinese government in
the Pacific, and there would be major concern especially in
Australia and New Zealand. Hence that massive deal that was
done for Rugby recently when the Minister Penny Wong was
an up here. Again that's a direct result to try
and make sure that some more state law to Australia
and in New Zealand. All right, you.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Didn't mention the plane trip though, Mark, Well.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
See the plane trip. I think I agree with Ken.
There's good reasons for him to go then and be
seen there, and it's all to do lots to do
with Marna and respect and everything like that. But and
this is I was listening to you Nick when you're
talking hit those figures to spend one hundred and fifty
that's the baseline, that's the least at least one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars to fly from Auckland to to
(16:11):
row tolerant back.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
We talked before about with the firefighters and being tone
deaf about sort of things that are going on. That's
but surely they've got to got a commercial flight or
you can hire probably a leergicic go over there for
a lot there.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It seems a bit profligate.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, understand the sentiment, agree that he should go, but
why do they need to spend.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
All that money?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I think we all do, But I mean there's got
to be some common sense when we're trying to be
careful and be smart about the storage of our fuels, isn't.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
It kid, Yes, well, obviously it's even more so now
given the situation we're in. We'll that the world is
in now with fuel and people. Obviously you're going to
ask questions about whether or not the amount of the
cost justified what benefits there were? And you know, as
I said in the break, could we have done it
on zoom?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Well?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And I know I think that we both all three
of us understand the Polynesia way of man to man,
woman to and face to face.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I mean we all understand that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
But surely I've heard there was as few as six
or seven on the plane. You know, it's a big
seven five seven to fly over there to do that
particular deal. But I'm glad it has done as you said,
So right, Ken Friday face off on a Thursday. Ken
Laban and Mark Sainsbury talking about good voices. Sainsbury, I
think you both got great voices, by the way, so
(17:32):
let's talk about something that Ken, you might have been
in the police force when this all went down. David
Tamahead's conviction for the double murder of Swedish tourists has
been squashed by the Supreme Court due to the miscarriage
of justice during his trial. Now the Crown, Ken, I'm
going to start with you on this one need to
decide whether it goes to a retrial or not. I
(17:53):
said when we talked about this the other day, I
don't believe it will your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Well, if the conviction's been been quashed and as we
all know, it's beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't think
you to get a conviction. I think it's been too long.
I know there's been a lot of speculation. I'm not
familiar with all of the evidence. But I would have
thought that if there was safety in the previous decision
(18:18):
that had been handed down, the Supreme Court would have
endorsed it. And they haven't. That is a big, big
sign towards not being beyond a reasonable doubt in my view.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right Mark Sainsbury, Yeah, I mean it's this case.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I mean, it's so almost part of our lives has
gone on. It has gone on so long. But I
was disturbed. I remember when they finally found his body
after years and years, and on his arm, on his
wrist was this watch. Which part of the police case
was that Tamma Harry given that watch to his son
as a birthday present or something. And then you know,
(18:52):
this is all part of the thing. Then they had
the jail house snitch, lots of unsafe things around it,
you know. And if they don't reopen, if they don't
charge it again, he'll be even though he had already
been at the program of mercy, it's still up in
the air. It's still going to be It's not definitive.
Is that People still going to.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Go saying that he's been convicted, But it was it
was not the right way. There's mistakes and the way
that it went. So it doesn't mean that he was innocent, does.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
It doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
It means it means that they still have.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
To prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So that So the thing that I want to get
to the bottom of, Mark, and I'll come to you
first on this, is that horrible word compensation. Does he
get compensation based on that he's not proven innocent but
he's not proven guilty.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Look, it's a really tricky one because you would have to,
I thought, to get compensation it has to be you know,
normally they point a case or someone to look into
it and make a recommendation to the minister. But usually
it has to be because there's a you know, it's
not just beyond reasonable doubt, it's a substantial you know,
substantial issues that that do point to his innocence in
(20:02):
this case.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, so I.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Haven't Do you think he should get comp No? Well, yeah,
I say that glibly, but I'd like to see what
I read the full decision in terms of what their
reasoning wasn't.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
If they can't prove, they can't prove that he did it,
And clearly that's what the Supreme Court is saying he
will be entitled to compensation. Really, so he will be
entitled to compensation, right.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, that's the thought move on a sex worker. Adficacy
group are saying that their chairperson was denied from candidacy
for the Green Party because of their work as an
experience as a sex worker. The Greens are denying it,
but they can't say why they did not accept her
during because of confidentiality. Now, and one of the things
(20:51):
that got to me on this whole question when they
were questioning her the Green Party whether they wanted her
it or not. Out of twenty seven questions, twenty one
were about her sex work. Mark, I'm looking at you
to start this one off. We've also had Chrisshup on
the show saying that the idea of MMP is to
get diversity into parliament and surely Chris Hipkins.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Get it right.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Nick had said that we need more people in parliament.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, well, I can remember when I came back from
when I was in the UK and I came back
here and there was a big fuss going on because
of Alamin Kopu. Remember who was the I think she
was an alliance MP who jumped ship and with Shipley,
and she had been a subject of quite controversy because
she'd been on the she was a beneficiary and everyone
was going on about, oh, this person shouldn't be in parliament.
(21:38):
There a beneficiary. I've always believed that Parliament supposed to
be representative of the people, and I'd apply the same
thing to someone who was a sex worker.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It is legal.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
We have changed out, We've got to graph as a society.
It would seem completely wrong to sort of say to someone, well,
we're not going to give you the nomination because you're
a sex worker. Be like saying we're not going to
give you the accommodation because you're a seventh adventist store whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And this particular person had been working and doing work
for the Greens Party, you know, but you know, twenty
one question is about her sex work. On twenty out
of twenty seven. Ken Labor not very.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Woke, one hundred percent agree with both of you over
the importance of diversity. And isn't it a cheap headline? Nick?
Isn't it to get it? Get it out there on
social media, get it out there on mainstream media, get
it talked about on Friday face off. It's an indirect
form of bullying. Look over the list of dodgy people
(22:35):
that have served as our parliamentary representatives in the past,
and we're talking about a sex worker who, you know,
because of the change in the change in legislations, are
perfectly legitimate career to have. And you know, if we
want to have diversity of thought, diversity of ideas and
diversity of debate, then has to be reflected to the
people that sit around the table. Otherwise we just go
(22:58):
back to the old days where it's just white middle
class men, smug ands and gas. Well, we're long past
those days, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You know, well, hopefully we are.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Hopefully we are.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I hope you're coming back.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
That's still there.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
So, I mean, Mark, were you surprised that there was
the Green Party that was doing.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I said before, it's sort of not very woke, and
that's sort of something that is sort are pretty renowned
for and that sort of belief in, you know, having
bringing everyone and you know, people who are unusual or different.
It shouldn't make any difference to the Green Do you
think they'd be the most tolerant.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yes, take a short break and be back with Mark
Sainsbury and Ken Laban. I want to talk about the
Basin Reserve, whether we can make that into a true
international facility that we could play T twenty at and
probably play some Hurricanes games there some Phoenix games. They
want to talk ask you about that Friday face off
on a Thursday with Ken Laban and Mark Sainsbury. There's
(23:54):
been a bit of talk over the last couple of
well this week with the T twenty competition that they're
talking about launching and having all these million dollar millionaires
coming into New Zealand starting this competition. And where would
we play in Wellington? Would we play at Henry Stadium
or would we play at the Basin Basement. Would have
to be during the day and they wanted at night.
Ken Laban, I spoke to Frano Bizzalo, who's an ex
(24:18):
Wellingtonian who works as an architect on the major stadiums
in the world right now based in London. He said
that you could actually do a lot with the base
in Reserve.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Absolutely? I agree. There's a lot of talk around what
should we do about poor Park given that nobody's going
to watch the Lions in the NPC, and there's been
declining crowds at the Hurricanes in recent years, although they're
getting good crowds this year and they're winning. What should
we do in the Heart, at at the Heart Recreation
Ground and at Fraser Park, And every conversation is around
(24:51):
we need something smaller, but that's new money. And I
look at the I look at the basin capacity. I
think thirteen thousand at the base.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Now, but I think it's down in abound about six
or seven now really.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Well, which is which is actually the size that everybody
else is talking about in terms of what we need
given the enormous cost to hire Henry Stadium. So absolutely
I see the Basin Reserve as a key as a
key stadium in our region that potentially the Lions could
play there, also the Phoenix could could play there, and
(25:27):
if they could make twenty twenty work there, I'm a
bit I'm a bit cynical about you know, getting the
world's great players to come and play in Wellington really
is very care and all those guys who are on
million dollar plus in the IPL going to come to
Liddle Lowe, Wellington and the needing to play T twenty.
You know, the average salary for the Big Bash in
(25:47):
Australia with four hundred grand three million salary. Care I
can't you know, I can't see it, but I definitely
see it as a potential for smaller concerts, games and
teams that attract smaller crowds to create that God is
a magnificent place to be, as is the stadium when
it's full. You is not fall often enough.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Can I quickly just ask before I come to your Mark,
I'm just going to quickly ask you. There's a lot
of been a lot of talk in the underground about
the Phoenix and Fraser Park building something pretty significant there
is that? Is that a can you talk about it?
Is that a talk I could?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
But I'll tell you what would be better for the
for the heart rate payer would be for the Phoenix
to transfer to the Basin Reserve.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Really.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Oh, so that's you saying you don't want it to go, Mark, Well,
that's just what I'm taking on it. Don't don't see
me tomorrow, Mark.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Look, I have also, I guess that's almost like an
emotional attachment to the base and it's sort of you know,
and things that I've been to there.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, I'm not a big.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
I've been to a big a bit of a cricket there, doubt,
and they're just lying out there having a great time
on the grass. It was really really relaxing. But as
Ken says, it depends you need that critical mass of
people in there to make it work. I think if
they can find a way to preserve and utilize the
base reserve, they should. It's just such a unique It's
just you think people are coming, Visitors are going, what
the hell is that? Oh no, that's a cricket ground.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
What's almost the heartbeat of wanting to Yeah, it is, Ken,
I'm glad. I just want to also ask you because
I've been thinking exactly the same thing. But everyone around
here and everyone I speak to is thinks that these
millionaire owners of this new tea tourning you're going to
make it work. I mean, you've been around sport long enough,
and I've been around sport long enough, and you know,
I was thinking about writing a letter, open letter to
(27:33):
the Herald saying I'll pay one dollar for a team
because that's what they'll be worth.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
No, that's right, and if they want, you know, they
can have a T twenty competition. But if they want
to have a T twenty competition on the lines that
they want us to believe that they're going to have,
then you're going to need the world's best players. You're
not going to get the world's best players by offering
them to ice creams in the count of CoA. You
know what I mean. These guys are on. These guys
and girls they are on. They are on big money,
playing in glamorous teams in front of huge crowds. You
(28:01):
know that, Well, we just I guarantee you that they
don't have the commercial support to be able to put
a petition of that level together. You know, it would
be like us trying to you and I trying to
start our own NRL competition, or we're just deluding.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
NBA or NBA NBA. You know, let's be real.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Let's be exactly real and.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Mark, someone told me a story, and someone credible told
me a story that sixty or seventy percent of every
dollar in cricket worldwide comes out of one country, India exact.
So how are they going to bring it all over
here and make it work?
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Anyone got any ideas?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
No, they won't. They just they're just it's a con i.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Wouldn't even waste a dollar.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I thought I could put a Saints cricket team together.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Well, if anyone could, you could joking, joking, joking.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Joking the Friday.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Hot. Okay, this is a time where we ask our
guests today, Mark Sainsbury and Ken Laburn, what they're hots
and knots, what they really were pleased about in the
last couple of weeks, and what they're not So please Mark,
I'm looking straight that you come on.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
We'll start with what I'm not pleased about. And it's
just doing my head. And that is Cambridge Terrace. If
you're coming into town and you make the mistake of
turning indic and I had to go down there to
see a locksmith and go and see him mate Miles
and that sort of thing, and there's cure is it's
just so badly designed and you're stuck there and even
gets frustrated. I tried jumping at a couple of times
(29:28):
to two hundred dollars tickets through the mail. Soon put
a stop to that. Yeah, So that's that's my not
just I keep thinking this is going to get better
and it doesn't. My hot is TV three on demand.
But you know, you're constant. He's seen anything, and I've
seen that before.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
What are you going to watch?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
There's a series called Crackhead written by Holly Shirvey who
stars in it, and she is just a basket case,
you know, drug addict, you know, party animals doing all
the wrong things and anyway, I won't spoil it, but
it is so well acted, so well rittracked and really
great Crankhead plus.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, okay, all right, we've got it. Thanks Mark, appreciate that.
Ken Layman, what are your hots and notts? What are
your play and what are you not so pleased about?
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Firstly, I just want to acknowledge Touch New Zealand, the
New Zealand Softball and the News and Gaelic Games Association.
Those three organizations have brought significant events to Hut in
the last couple of weekends, our hotels, motels, bars, restaurants,
if really it's well in excess of two thousand visitors
(30:28):
to the Hut over that time. The use of our
facilities at Fraser Park and Hut Park has been fantastic,
and I just want to acknowledge those that were involved
in the decisions to bring them to bring them out,
which is fit fabulous for our own form of sporting
Cooper duper you could say, and what's not is very similar.
We're having congestion issues and the heart as well with
(30:50):
our major works going on with other program I know
you're getting a few calls. This is the first. This
is the first media that I've done where I haven't
been grilled about it, so I appreciate it. Have an
hour with you on that. And obviously the uncertainty that's
caused around the fuel situation is a bit of drama
for everywhere. I'm not only here in New Zealand but
around the world.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But you are having specific problems out there. I mean,
I'm hearing all the time at my office manager lives
in the hut and she leaves now, she leaves work
now at three o'clock to get home at five.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
That's not right, telling the cat's to train.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
It's oh, that's not very nice.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That's not very nice, because did you just really really
quickly did either of you? You mentioned it, koober doo,
but did either either of you go? Of course you
and the gone Ken that would have been a tripp
to down. No, No, it's something I sign I was
quite keen to get down, but the sun went and
all his mates and they always had a great time.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yeah. Well, fabulous events. Twenty thousand people, four million injection
into the local economy, what did I see? Three point
seven million or something in transactions as well. Direct impact
on the economy was significant, So well done. Magnificent event.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Ken Laban talking about well done.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Great to have you in the student in present in
the studio and doing Friday face Off. You're going to
be a regular now, Ken Laban, Mark Sainsbury, you know
that you're in the resident band. You're you're the one
that we call on when we need a hit record out.
So thanks to both you have both you and your
your families and your eyeing A and your Fano have
a very very good little breakover Easter and happy Easter.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Insane to you Nick and your family and to all
your audience.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
You know, have a great weekend. And on MONWHEELI I
saw that's salmon for I have a.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nice day, puffer Ti Telly Lava.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
Oh thank you very much, which means thank you very
strong salmon connection with us.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Three For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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