March 1, 2026 • 32 mins
Wellington Mayor Andrew Little says the City Council is not looking at compensation for businesses on the wastewater plagued-southern coast.
Popular beaches like Lyall Bay and Island Bay closed after the Moa Point treatment plant catastrophically failed last month.
Local shops in the area have been pleading for help, reporting large scale losses in revenue and trade as people stay away from the area, partly due to the bad smell.
Little discussed this and a range of other topics on his monthly slot with Nick Mills.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b Joining me in the studio is Wellington's Mayor
Andrew Little for his monthly catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Good morning Andrew, morning Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Right, let's get straight into it. You went for a swim.
You're looking a bit pale by the way. You okay,
you've had I think it's the lighting in the studio. No,
your voices croquy. Are you okay? Shall I get a
mask on the work?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
That's the hard work I'm doing? No, no, no, I'm
perfectly fine. I swam on Wednesday, I did a run
on Thursday to another run Saturday morning, was on the
mountain bik yesterday, out and about during the weekend. No, no,
I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Are you sure you're looking a little bit fifty to
fifty temperature?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
If you want?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, thank you? You ate some kinner that didn't apposete
your stomach either. I mean normally if I upsets was
double it a little where it comes out.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm not a fan of kinner. So no, but you
did you did?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Was that awful publicity?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
No? You must be confused me. I haven't had any.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Kind They said that the affected area. Oh no, So
was this just a straight out pr move just try
and get Willington back on it, because it's kind of
kind of I felt that it backfired a little bit.
I think people started talking about, you know, the French
mayor doing it before the Olympics, and it was okay,
and then all the Olympians got ill when they swam.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The reason is that we have been We knew that
when the plant failed, all the surgions going at the sea,
the right thing was to look, stop people going on
the beaches, stop people swimming, because we need to know
what the impact was going to be. So they've been
doing the testing all the way through, and day after
day the testing was showing, at least on the beaches
very very low levels like negligible and in some cases
(01:45):
zero levels of contamination. We then had the big storm
come through. We wanted to know what the impact of
that was. And in the days following that, apart from
the one day after the next days after that, again
back down to the previous levels where there was it
was it was perfectly safe to go and swim. And
I had said all along, I said, look, if these
monitoring results continue the way they are, we can't keep
(02:07):
telling people to stay off the beach because we can't
tell them there is a risk when the evidence is
showing there isn't one.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So can I just interrupt you there and just and
just mention that today, like you know, come from that
area that suddenly was screaming, and so does that change
anything today?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah? And so while we so we knew that because
they're like unstable conditions, sunny days, all the rest of it.
Providing there's been no storm the day before or a
couple of days before, it'll be fine. Once the sea
conditions changed or a storm comes through, then it does change.
And so we say, like then you probably do have
to stay or you do have to stay away from
the beach. But that's why we've said look at the
Larval website Lava dot org dot in z, because that'll
(02:45):
tell you one from one they tell us today if
you had a look, I've actually looked at it today.
But that'll tell you from one day to the next.
What is whether that day is a safe day just.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
One, So it's really a day by day. Think if
it's a suddenly or there's a lot of rain. I
mean there's been a lot of rain over the night too,
does that flood up again and we go back to
the five minute.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, what I've been told is that even though there
was pretty rain last night, it didn't result in any
flow going out the short outfall or wound out the
long outfall. So that's a good thing. So that minimizes
the risk of contamination. I mean one of that. One
of the other challenges we've got is that all the
testing that's been done, we don't get the results until
a couple of days later. It's just the process they
have to go through. So it is about gauging what's
(03:26):
you know, what the what the conditions are that day
with the monitoring that we know of up to that date.
So it is a day by day assessment has to
be taken. Today I wouldn't be swimming.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, So compensation are you looking at compensating those I mean,
those businesses can't operate on everyone looking up on the
website before they go down there, go for a walk
on Lyle Bay and a swimming a coffee? Can they?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
No, But also look that they also know outside of
you know, seyage plants breaking down their subject to weather
conditions and so on as well, including when you have
really bad summers. No, we aren't. We aren't looking at compensation.
I mean the other thing is that there would be
issues of insurance and business disruption insurance and all that
sort of stuff. And we don't know what the cause
(04:12):
of the failure of the plant was yet, so we're
not in possession in a position to consider.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I mean, that's probably what everyone's sitting back and saying.
Nick ask Andrew, Ask Andrew, I mean, surely a month on?
Is it a month on? Pretty close to a month on?
It three?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It was fourth or fourth of februe year, so close to.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It, close to a month on. We still don't know
what caused the problem.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And I've been told three different potential causes, and one is,
you know, it was a blockage in the outfall, something
going wrong on the plant. The other is I'm told
that the way that there was an upgrade going on
at the time that the plant failed, they were installing
new UV lights and stuff to treat the surge, that
(04:52):
the way that that that program of work was planned
was the cause of it. So three quite different causes.
That's why we need the independent review to tell us why.
I said to the Minister Dird and two stages. Tell
us what the mechanical care was first, then look at
all the governance issues and who knew what when type
of thing? Do that next, because we do need to
(05:13):
know the cause, if only because as we build the
plant back, we want to know if there was a
design fault that we don't repeat, that that we fix
it up, that we prevent this happening again.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Can you answer me why suddenly, all of a sudden,
after the very first day, Pat Dohity, the Wellington Water CEO,
he was front and center answering all the questions on
all the TV programs, doing absolutely all the media. The
second day bomb gone cut off and we have not
heard from him since. Now I've been told by reliable
(05:43):
sources that you told them to back off and that
you handle it. Is that rural faults.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Look look, yeah, I asked, I said, like he did.
Wellington would have led their response and the initiative only
one day because they knew that well yeah, because they
knew all the information all the rest of it. It
was also agreed that we wouldn't talk about causes because
he was just to know. But also there's there's four
parties involved in that plant there's the Wellington City Council
who owns it, Wellington Water. Who is responsible to Wellington
(06:13):
City Council for operating the whole system is Violia, who
Wellington Water contracted to run that particular plant. And there's
great Wellington Regional Council that does monitoring.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Can I just interrupt you? I get that, But doesn't
de send a signal to us rate payers that you
have no confidence in the CEO of Wellington Water.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, I have total confidences.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well why didn't you even speak?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Because what I was concerned about is that a lot
of a when he was asked what the cause or
potential cause was, he would say, but it was from
a Wellington Water point of view.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So but that's who that was, who was running it,
that was who made If there is a cock up,
I'm not saying there was a cocker. That's the organization
that cocked it up. If there was a cocker. But
he wasn't saying that they cocked it up. No, why
he couldn't speak. He was pointed at other potential causes
and I didn't think that was right. So, in a sense,
you know, Wellington Water has is self interested in and
(07:06):
trying to explain what was happening, and it wasn't right
that when in the water should be doing that because
if you went to Veolia, they'd have of you if
you want to Well, everyone tried to go to They
ran for them, ran spoken to Edi.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And it was actually the right thing to do. And
I don't think it helps also that over a period
of days and weeks we have all these all sort
of competing narratives about what happened. That's why the getting
an independent review set up quickly was important. I'm very
thankful to Minister Simon Watts and the Prime Minister to
set that up.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
To be fair, Why should people trust you on an
issue now? And I'm not doubting your trust. Why should
people trust you? Not the CEO of well Into Water.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I'm not out there trying to give a whole bunch
of different, conflicting and completing explanations about what happened. I
want Valentonian's to get what we do know, get that
out there, to get about the safety of the beach
or not safety about it and.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
To be fear a month later we know buggerl Yeah,
we know the people are Willington that have been affected
and the people of Lyle Bay that have been packed.
They know, bugger all, they've seen their mere jump in
the water and have a swim. Everything's okay. Three days
later you say, actually, hold off, let's not go in
the water.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I mighte not you.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This is not getting clearer, is it?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
No, we said, I said, what I leapt in the water?
I said, but look we are You know, when conditions change,
the advice will change. That is what has happened. We
don't know what the causes and until independent reviewers get
in there, and that's now in the government's ends. And
I understand from the Minister's office last week onto giving
the urgency to it, how independent reviewers they long that
were going to find out? Well, well, they told me
(08:44):
they can have a full final report done by June,
which is why I've said, can we have an interim
thing about the cause sooner that we need it? Sooner
than that. I'm hoping we'll get that within weeks, But
that's going to be up to those reviews and how
quickly they can get on top of the information and
get that conclusion out there.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
When does Pat Dody get his gag taken off? Well,
he's not he's not he's not gagged and isagh hold on, hold,
he is gagged. If I ring him up right now
and ask him to come on here, he'll say no,
please ring mister little. So he is gagged.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But Charles Baker, who's the chief operating officer from Welling
to Ward, he's been out there doing media doing stuff.
He was there with me last week doing a great job.
Welling Water is fine, and we want Wellington Water to
be focused on what they have to do, which is,
you know, getting the plants sorted out so they can
assess the damage, working at what the fix is going
to be, working at what the cost is going to be,
and getting on all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm
concerned why you've pushed Pat Dirty at the back and
brought the second is somehow Pat Dirty involved in this issue.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I'm not going to go no, no, not at all.
And Pat, Pat doubt in the time that he's been
chief executive Willing to Ward has done an incredible job
and actually getting Wellington Water back on track and getting
all the contracting issues out and getting the organization sorted out.
He's done a terrific job. And I don't want him
because I expect this will be his last major gig
and his career. He came out of a time to
do it. I don't want him to go down as
(10:10):
the person who was responsible for a big plant failure,
because he's not responsible for it. But equally I don't
want I don't want to get information out too well
in tin that might not be accurate about the cause
of the failure of the plant. So you've got to
get accurate.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Do you think it our monthly catch ups? Do you
think that next month will be still talking about my point?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Look, it's a big question because we were still we
will still be pumping raw surah down into the cork
straight in a month's time, so people may well be
asking about that, will know whether or not, whether it's
settled down, whether more people have been able to get
to the beach, walk their dogs on the beach. I
imagine it'll still be a question until we get the
plant for well, we have and it will be other
things have happened since. Will we have any idea of
what it's going to cost us the rate payers? Look,
(10:55):
I can't guarantee that.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I mean, you must have some figures in front of you.
You can't tell me that you run a business the
size of Wellington City count. If I've got to screw up,
I know exactly what it's all round about, what it's
going to cost me to fix it, and business you
must know that. Are we in for tens of millions
or hundreds of millions?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It will depends with the insurance falls and look it doesn't,
but I mean the total cost. And yeah, well in
terms of what we'll fall on Wellington rate payers. Again,
it will depend on with the insurance falls. We've got
to work with Taiaku Why, who's a new owner who
will take over from the first of July, and what
responsibility they will pick up for additional cost it will
(11:31):
be tens of millions of dollars. I expect that I.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
See an increase in my rate bill because of this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I don't expect. So we're doing everything we can to
have as lower level increase in rates. The water rates
part of the rates bill from the first of July
is kind of set anyway, when Taiaku Why takes over,
it's what happens from the first of July twenty twenty.
Can we just get it up. I've got to go
to a break. Can we just get a quick answer
on this one.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I believe that everything has to be one hundred percent
before you hand it over. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
What we've We've got to hand over a plant. It
doesn't have to be working because we're not allowed under
the law from the first of July, Wellington City Council
is not allowed to own a water treatment plant. That
plant even though it's crippled and hardly working at all.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So it can but you can pass it over broken.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, we won't have any option back to, but we
do want to have an agreement about what the fixed looks.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Can I just ask you something you mentioned in conversation.
You said there was three potential causes of the failure
of the mower point plant.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
What other three?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
So?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
One was a blockage in the long outfall right out
at sea, Another was an issue a design issue within
the plant itself. I don't know the detail of that.
And the other was the way a particular maintenance program
had been organized that meant that some parts of the
plant had to be sort of turned off. That may
have been a cause of it. So three different causes
(12:59):
have been explained to me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Can I just ask you one little quick question before
we go to a couple of callers too. Someone rang
me on the show and said that Viola is that
helped Dive put it La Violia had cut down their
twenty four hour surveillance and if they hadn't cut that down,
there'd have been someone there that could have fixed the
problem there. And then is it as simple as that?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I'm not aware of that. I mean, one of the
things we do know is that a set of alarms
that we expect should have gone off didn't go off.
The only alarm that went off was the fire alarm
and fens turned up, and that's how we knew the
problem was as bad as it was.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And can you explain to me how you know that
it's out of one of those three things when we
really don't know. Well, that's just what That's what people
have suggested to me, people from within the water services
industry and Wellington Water. That's those the options that they've
sort of put to me. Okay, we've got a caller
in that wants to ask Khmia Andrew little a question.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Good morning, James, good morning, good morning. My questions around
the Sledge Levy that you currently have approximately twenty two
thousand homes in the Wellington region aren't connected to the
my point sewage plant or that's or that sledge treatment
plant here. They've been compared old to pay thousands of
dollars over the next thirty years as part of the
part of the levy. How do you see that has
(14:13):
been reasonable, justified and fear to those people who don't
have the option to connect to it.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Good question, except that those people will also be moving
around about the city and they will use facilities and
other parts of the city too, So it's not quite
right to say that those people won't even benefit from
the sludge minimization plant.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, but from that though, the commercial premises also paint.
So I went to McDonald's in town use their toilet.
McDonald's already paying that sledge levy, and effectively you're saying
like you're the benefit of it. Well, it's already been
paid for.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yep, you do. And a whole bunch of other premises
too that aren't necessar really paying a commercial levy. So
I think the whole purpose of the sledge minimization plant
is to reduce the rapidly filling landfill that we've got.
We can slow that down there's benefits to the whole
community for that, whether you're connected to the system or not.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
That sounds pretty tough, doesn't it if you if you're
not connected, until you're still paying.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah. Look, I don't know quite. I don't know the
precise rules relating to that. I'm making my business to
go and find out, except that in the end we
do all benefit from the existence of that plant will
make a difference to all of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And the old poor commercial right paths have panned three
point seven percent anyway, so they're already pan and the
ludun and fran seven times in fact, yeah, three point
seven times. Yeah, Francis, good morning. You've got a question
for Mayor Andrew Little.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
You know, I'm a bit of a future thinker and
I like to think that in FIDE's time, if somebody's had,
you know, a bug that just won't go away and
they keep getting the antibiotics antibotics at this moment, have
the Health Department organized for the medical gps to be
(16:01):
reporting issues that could be concerned with what's coming out
of all of that. And also then in five years
time with ac C would have difficulty giving a claim
and with a lower immune system. Would that be their
reason not, because they're very good.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
At that well. On the first question, and there are
certain health conditions that GPS are required to notify to
the Ministry of Health Campbell a doctor is one of them.
They have to report that to the health authorities. Because
that has to be chased up. On the question about
whether acc applies, it's probably outside my arimit is mayor
(16:41):
to comment about that. One of the things that I
spoke earlier of having a coffee at Farry when I
was on the weekend and a guy came up to
me and he said, I said, what are you doing
this weekend? I said, I'm just doing my normal working
and doing my normal stuff. He said, I'm about to
take my son out fishing. He said, I want your advice.
If I catch some fish, would I eat it? And
(17:02):
I said, God, don't ask me. You know, I'm but paranoid.
I'd say no, what would you say? I'd ask where
they were recorded from, if you've got it, if you
caught it kept tart afaty or something, I'd happily eat it.
If it was further around towards with the out fullers,
I might question it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
But how do we know, because you know, I've got
to have met Friday nights. I like a fish and
chip Friday night. And I thought to myself, you know what,
I don't feel. I don't feel completely happy you have
him a fishing chip.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I think the fish and chips will be fine. I think, Look,
I know one of the people I'm catching up with
soon nextally is Penny Mercer, and he was the one
of that. He was a counselor who campaigned on stopping
there putting raw zeroge out to the into the sea.
And he won't like me saying this, but one of
the people we had at the public meeting a couple
of weeks ago was a guy who said that they
where their long outfall is and the depth that it's
(17:52):
discharging too. It means that the risk of contaminated of
sewerage being widespread right across the Cock Strait as pretty
much zero, and so we shouldn't worry too much about
it if you're fishing, if you're fishing out west or
even further out east, you'll be okay. But if you're
in close proximity to wear the outfall is that that'll
(18:12):
be the problem.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We had former Justice Mayor Justin Lester on the show,
and he said that none of this improvements would have
been made possible if it wasn't for Ray Mercer. Have
we not given him the credit that when he was
on council he fought like Hammer and Tom. I mean,
surely we should as a council do something to recognize
him for that work.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Sure, that's a good question answer. I'll go back and
from Suh. I'm meeting him literally, if not today then
tomorrow I'll ask him about that whether he got recognition
because he should, because he should be recognized for it,
and knowing that the local locally, we would be very
thankful for the fact that he, year after years, stood
up for that and thought for it we do something different.
He fought for it well.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
X Meth said it wouldn't have happened without him wanting
to Mey or Andrew Little in the studio with us. Andrew,
I've got to ask you about these bus lanes things,
because we did an hour on the show of it
a couple of weeks ago and six million bucks you're
raking in. I mean, there's also been talked around the
country about that. Are these fines attacks are you you know,
I mean it's quite ludicrous. And I mean if you
(19:15):
come and if you didn't, you wouldn't have come in
the back door, you would have come in the front door.
So if you come in the back door here we've
got bus lanes, bus lane and the staff here are
getting nabbed all the time.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, and so too thing. I mean, first of all,
the penalty, the level of penalty one hundred and fifty
dollars penalty is set by the government, yes, and regulation,
so we don't have a control over that. The stuff
we do get to control over as a whether we
have a bus lane and then be the signage and
all the rest of it. So the in terms of
the bus lanes around Wellington, I've asked and the officimans
tell me all the signage complies with the regulations. That's
(19:47):
that response. There is a bigger question, I think, particularly
down Cambridge Terrace some extent Rudiford Street, is whether the
bus lane needs to be twelve hours a day, seven
days a week. I mean, I've you know, I've been
down particularly Cambridge Terrasts and a weekend we've been almost
sort of bumped to bumper traffic in the one lane
that is for cars. Absolutely nothing in the bus lane.
(20:07):
And the whole time has taken me to get down there.
So I have spoken to the officials responsible for that.
That bus lane is a year or coming up to
a year old. Took a last April. So I've said,
how about it one year, we do a review, Let's
check the data, let's see what the numbers are, and
let's see whether we actually need to have a bus
lane that's twelve hours a day, seven days a week.
(20:28):
Because I remain to be convinced.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know the data. But obviously it's a money earned
now for the council. So I mean, if that's six
million dollars is cut to three million dollars, that's other
cuts you've got to make. So obviously you're not going
to be too eager to drop that. AA.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I don't want. I don't want to counsel that balances
box by penalizing it's it's a citizens What sort of
future is there for that?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I think when you look at you do that every
time I get a bill, that's pretty pretty hard to
start that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now. I know that we you know, we thought that
we do that. We do things also in exchange with
that that make people happy. But anyway, on the bus
lane thing, but we know that it was pretty high collection.
I think the first month the collection rate or the
amount collected has fallen, but it looks to me it's
still like two and a half thousand tickets I think estually,
(21:16):
and at the end of last year in December, I think,
so that still seems high to me. That just suggests
to me that people still are not seeing the sign
and still don't get it that it's a bus lane,
that they could be penalized.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Can I just quickly interrupt there and say that a
lot of people I talked to say they don't want
to come into town because they don't know where the
bus lanes are and what's going on, and they're terrified
at getting one hundred and fifty dollars. Fine, Can I
just ask you, do you have ever had one?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
No? Never have no, but I have been. I was
a passenger in a car with a friend of mine
who was driving in the bus lane. This is at
the beginning of this year, in fact, and I said,
you do know you're in a bus lane. You need
to move into the other lane, and he no, there's
not a bus lane where does it say that, And
of course I struggled to point a sign where there
was a bus lane. In the end, he was persuaded
that he should change lanes. He didn't get a ticket
(22:00):
as a consequence, but it goes to show for someone
who he doesn't regularly drive in Wellington, but he could
not see the signage.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And I think that's a common problem. That is a
common problem people coming from out of town. I hear
it all the time as well. When will we see
something some change? Will we see anything? It's just a
little bit of chat make people feel a bit better
and nothing.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Now I'm determined, as I said, I talked to the
officials last week about it all and said, you know,
we need to have a look at this. They said,
the one year kind of anniversary is coming up. It's
next month, so I said, let's do a one year
review and just see what it looks like. So I
expect to see something with the review next month. It'll
be might be another month or two after that. But
I am keen to see some action on this because
(22:40):
I am not yet persuaded that particularly that Cambridge terists
bus lane. Can I talk to be there as it is?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Can I just mention the Cambridge terrorists Kent terraces being selfish,
because that's ridiculous one lane for that, I mean, it's
just not right. Is there any chance we could get
a change in that. I think you for the reasons
you say.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You look at how crowded that that lane, that one
remaining traffic lane gets, particularly in the weekends, I think
there does need to be a change. I'm the mayor,
I'm one vote around the table and one person in
the organization. I will be doing what I can just
to be to be convinced that what is the arrangement
that's in place at the moment is fear. I'm yet
(23:20):
to be convinced of that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
What about six am till eleven pm?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, that's what I mean. I think that the twelve
hour of day thing is is unnecessary. Twenty four hour
or twenty four hour, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's it's twelve hour at the moment. I think it's
I thought I thought it was more. I could be wrong,
one of us is wrong. You carry on. I'm pretty
sure it's twelve hour a day, but I need to
be convinced that it warrants twelve hour day restriction. Government
has just granted the move on orders to police to
move rough sleepers, disrupting late, disrupting people, you know, just
trying to get around and do their business. I mean, what, what,
(23:57):
what's your thoughts done?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah? I get I get the no one wants to
walk up a street and there's somebody being anti social
or sort of behaving a weird sort of way. But
the reality is that they get to move on order
and move on. We are what They're going to go
around the block, go down the next street. A lot
of these people I know this, but a lot of
these people because we have a team in the city
council who are set up to deal with these people
(24:20):
and try and work out the problems. A lot of
them they don't have housing, or if they do get housing,
they don't get any support, and actually they can't manage
to kind of be on their own or even sometimes
with others. They need a whole heap of support that
guys with that. I met with local police leaders a
couple of weeks ago we had talked about this problem.
They were adamant to me. They said, look, we don't
(24:40):
want to be in the position of telling people they
have to go somewhere else. Because they don't know where
they'll go and they just become a problem further down
the track for the police. And then meeting with all
the agencies, including the police last week who deal with
the rough sleepers and the homeless, they were telling me
what the issues are with getting housing and all the
rest of it. So there's a lot of effort going
and to dealing with them getting supports. They need mental
(25:02):
health support. We get somebody from Health New Zealand there.
So there's a lot of eff it going going into that.
It's pretty slow moving and we have to do better,
but I'm not sure just slapping somebody with an order
that means that if they breach their liable to a
two thousand dollars fine they can't pay is the solution
to much more complex probable.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How much of this is mental health a.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Fair amount of it. I mean, these are people with addictions,
still recovering from addictions and stuff. Others I've got other
mental health issues where they can't make decisions or can't
make decisions for themselves and they need some support and
assistance to live a decent life.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Is it time that we pushed for a regional mental
health hospital again?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah? I think some better residential support for people. I
think that's where we can do better. I think, you know,
I remember the debates in the eighties and stuff, and
they said, look, we institutionalized too many people. Will let
them all out, And that was kind of one part
of the response. The other part of the response was
making sure that there was the support and help in
the community to help people live their decent lives.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
We never funded them, no, And that's probably the area
that we need to discuss. Because I was around all
these mental health places were closed down. Everyone said, but
we're going to put them into regional homes and housing
and protect them and do and everyone screened out that
the problem is going to be they're going to live
on the street. And what's happened.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what's happened because because the supports
not there, and that's what we have to fix up.
I look, there's some amazing agencies, the Downtown City Ministry,
Willington City Mission, Housing first, all good, good agencies doing
their best. You know, Wellington City Mission and Downtown City Ministry.
They've got health, free health services available for these guys.
(26:36):
Why are we bring clinics and sort.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Of stuff can I just ask, and I'm interrupting being
rude because I want to get on with it. So
why are we not seeing those agencies actually helping those
people actually being there on the streets, Because I have
two people living outside my business. You know, why are
we not seeing them helping them?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Well, I think they are and they've got They've all
got people who go out and about in the street.
The Wellington City Council's got a handful of people who
are out every day in the street checking in with
these people, seeing what they need, trying to work with
them and government agencies and others to try and give
them the help that they need. So that help is there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Can I tell you, and I live on the streets.
I don't live on the streets, but I'm on the
streets the whole time. I have never ever ever seen
anybody giving any of them any help, and of any
agency not having a go counsel and any agencies. I
mean I've seen police. I've seen police talk to the
only and you know, I spend a lot of time
seeing that. If you've just joined the show, we've got
(27:34):
one into Mayor Andrew Little in the studio for his
monthly Catch up. I don't know whether you've been reading
and much about it or thinking much about it, but
the whole idea of the second Mount Victoria Tunnel seems
to have gone on a little bit of a hold.
Chris Bishop saying that he wants to look at congestion
charges and look at a whole lot of other things.
We've got the Mayor of Auckland yesterday saying that if
(27:55):
he's thinking about running for Parliament and willing to might
get this second tunnel, what's it got to do with him?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Good question, and love one dearly as I do, as
everybody no doubt does. It was a little bit confusing,
I think after the Infrastructure Commission report came out that
said we should focus on on fixing up what we've
got rather than shining new things. I think Chris Bushop
sort of took that sort of literally and it looked
like he wasn't as committed to the Mount Wick Tunnel
(28:23):
as others were. Then Nikola Willis came out pretty much
the same day said now she totally committed to it
was to see it happen. So I think there are
benefits to it. I know, look, there's a there's a
you know competing views even in Wellington about that. Some
say spend the money on other sort of transport initiatives,
but anything that moves traffic through the city more efficiently.
And of course it's not just Wellingtonians, it's people outside
(28:45):
Wellington trying to get to the airport. We want that
to happen as efficiently as possible, so I think there
are benefits for it. I think the value of the
investment would be a huge boost to the Wellington economy
as well. We do have to get the design right.
I think the design that they've gone out to the
public on did have some challenges and I know the
government's got some feedback about that. We're king to sit down.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Because you are you having that discussion? Is that ongoing?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I expect now that the public submissions have closed, I
expect that the officials from their city council will do
They know, they're very keen to They've got a very
clear idea about what will work and what won't work.
So I expect that will be happening very shortly. But
we've got to we've got to know from the government,
with the committed to seeing the project through in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
What's your gut telling you.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
A month ago they seem or two months ago they
seem very keen to see it through. In Faiate, I
was told that will be the top priority. Unlike the
Patonia to grenade sort of thing which they put on
they're going to put on the back burner, but the
amount tunnel thing they wanted to be a top priority.
I was told that no, Chris Bishett wanted to see
shovels on the ground by the end of the year.
I thought that was a bit ambitious. So I'm just
(29:52):
I'm just a little confused about what level of priority
it might have now.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I think I think Wellingtonians are too when their
infrastructure bosses, oh, we'll look at other things first. I mean,
I think we're all a bit concerned and we should be.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it is my job to try
and get some clarity from ministers as soon as I can.
I'm in discussions with them over the next few weeks
and I will do Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I said in an editorial just before, how I really
really enjoyed Warrington this last weekend. It does feel better,
doesn't it. Yeah, that's my sense.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I got around at and about Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon,
and that you've got a sense that people are out
enjoying the sun when we had it. But people are
getting out and about in Wellington, and I've sort of
noticed that last week getting around town during the course
of the week. I like to walk to meetings and
engagements that I've got. I enjoy seeing people out and about.
(30:45):
There seem to be a lot more people around too,
So it's looking good.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Are you concerned, as mayor of Wellington about the Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, Like I I didn't watch the whole of that game.
I just saw the news snippets of their of their
big loss, the five and a loss, and you could
see after that first goal, that owned goal, you could
see the players that the confidence just sceppt from them,
and that I think showed in the rest of the game.
You know, there is a sense that it's a team
that kind of regenerates on a rapid sort of basis.
(31:19):
So I'm hoping that the new coach, when they're confirmed
on the new coaching team, their job, I think is
to give that team, a young, young team that conference
help just to get out there and just forget what
the past looks like, focus on, focus, on that next
goal as well.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Are you concerned that your major stadium, Henry Stadium now
gets such low crowds? I mean, I think it was
over just around three thousand. Just a quick answer, because
I've got to go. I mean, are you, as a
mayor of the city, concerned about that.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I'm very keen to get it back and behind the
Phoenix and the Hurricanes too. We've got to get behind
our sports teams that represent us, that wave the Wellington
flag and represent who we are. And I'm going to
do that with the Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Thank you for coming in, Thank you for taking I
know you've got a very busy schedule. You probably got
a little bit of a pressed thing to go to.
You've got to go for another swim this afternoon when.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
The winther tunes comes right, the sun's rounding again. Sure.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Thank you for joining us this morning. Wanting to Mayor
Andrew Little joining us.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b Joining me in the studio is Wellington's Mayor
Andrew Little for his monthly catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Good morning Andrew, morning Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Right, let's get straight into it. You went for a swim.
You're looking a bit pale by the way. You okay,
you've had I think it's the lighting in the studio. No,
your voices croquy. Are you okay? Shall I get a
mask on the work?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
That's the hard work I'm doing? No, no, no, I'm
perfectly fine. I swam on Wednesday, I did a run
on Thursday to another run Saturday morning, was on the
mountain bik yesterday, out and about during the weekend. No, no,
I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Are you sure you're looking a little bit fifty to
fifty temperature?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
If you want?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, thank you? You ate some kinner that didn't apposete
your stomach either. I mean normally if I upsets was
double it a little where it comes out.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm not a fan of kinner. So no, but you
did you did?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Was that awful publicity?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
No? You must be confused me. I haven't had any.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Kind They said that the affected area. Oh no, So
was this just a straight out pr move just try
and get Willington back on it, because it's kind of
kind of I felt that it backfired a little bit.
I think people started talking about, you know, the French
mayor doing it before the Olympics, and it was okay,
and then all the Olympians got ill when they swam.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
The reason is that we have been We knew that
when the plant failed, all the surgions going at the sea,
the right thing was to look, stop people going on
the beaches, stop people swimming, because we need to know
what the impact was going to be. So they've been
doing the testing all the way through, and day after
day the testing was showing, at least on the beaches
very very low levels like negligible and in some cases
(01:45):
zero levels of contamination. We then had the big storm
come through. We wanted to know what the impact of
that was. And in the days following that, apart from
the one day after the next days after that, again
back down to the previous levels where there was it
was it was perfectly safe to go and swim. And
I had said all along, I said, look, if these
monitoring results continue the way they are, we can't keep
(02:07):
telling people to stay off the beach because we can't
tell them there is a risk when the evidence is
showing there isn't one.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So can I just interrupt you there and just and
just mention that today, like you know, come from that
area that suddenly was screaming, and so does that change
anything today?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah? And so while we so we knew that because
they're like unstable conditions, sunny days, all the rest of it.
Providing there's been no storm the day before or a
couple of days before, it'll be fine. Once the sea
conditions changed or a storm comes through, then it does change.
And so we say, like then you probably do have
to stay or you do have to stay away from
the beach. But that's why we've said look at the
Larval website Lava dot org dot in z, because that'll
(02:45):
tell you one from one they tell us today if
you had a look, I've actually looked at it today.
But that'll tell you from one day to the next.
What is whether that day is a safe day just.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
One, So it's really a day by day. Think if
it's a suddenly or there's a lot of rain. I
mean there's been a lot of rain over the night too,
does that flood up again and we go back to
the five minute.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, what I've been told is that even though there
was pretty rain last night, it didn't result in any
flow going out the short outfall or wound out the
long outfall. So that's a good thing. So that minimizes
the risk of contamination. I mean one of that. One
of the other challenges we've got is that all the
testing that's been done, we don't get the results until
a couple of days later. It's just the process they
have to go through. So it is about gauging what's
(03:26):
you know, what the what the conditions are that day
with the monitoring that we know of up to that date.
So it is a day by day assessment has to
be taken. Today I wouldn't be swimming.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Okay, So compensation are you looking at compensating those I mean,
those businesses can't operate on everyone looking up on the
website before they go down there, go for a walk
on Lyle Bay and a swimming a coffee? Can they?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
No, But also look that they also know outside of
you know, seyage plants breaking down their subject to weather
conditions and so on as well, including when you have
really bad summers. No, we aren't. We aren't looking at compensation.
I mean the other thing is that there would be
issues of insurance and business disruption insurance and all that
sort of stuff. And we don't know what the cause
(04:12):
of the failure of the plant was yet, so we're
not in possession in a position to consider.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I mean, that's probably what everyone's sitting back and saying.
Nick ask Andrew, Ask Andrew, I mean, surely a month on?
Is it a month on? Pretty close to a month on?
It three?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It was fourth or fourth of februe year, so close to.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It, close to a month on. We still don't know
what caused the problem.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And I've been told three different potential causes, and one is,
you know, it was a blockage in the outfall, something
going wrong on the plant. The other is I'm told
that the way that there was an upgrade going on
at the time that the plant failed, they were installing
new UV lights and stuff to treat the surge, that
(04:52):
the way that that that program of work was planned
was the cause of it. So three quite different causes.
That's why we need the independent review to tell us why.
I said to the Minister Dird and two stages. Tell
us what the mechanical care was first, then look at
all the governance issues and who knew what when type
of thing? Do that next, because we do need to
(05:13):
know the cause, if only because as we build the
plant back, we want to know if there was a
design fault that we don't repeat, that that we fix
it up, that we prevent this happening again.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Can you answer me why suddenly, all of a sudden,
after the very first day, Pat Dohity, the Wellington Water CEO,
he was front and center answering all the questions on
all the TV programs, doing absolutely all the media. The
second day bomb gone cut off and we have not
heard from him since. Now I've been told by reliable
(05:43):
sources that you told them to back off and that
you handle it. Is that rural faults.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Look look, yeah, I asked, I said, like he did.
Wellington would have led their response and the initiative only
one day because they knew that well yeah, because they
knew all the information all the rest of it. It
was also agreed that we wouldn't talk about causes because
he was just to know. But also there's there's four
parties involved in that plant there's the Wellington City Council
who owns it, Wellington Water. Who is responsible to Wellington
(06:13):
City Council for operating the whole system is Violia, who
Wellington Water contracted to run that particular plant. And there's
great Wellington Regional Council that does monitoring.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Can I just interrupt you? I get that, But doesn't
de send a signal to us rate payers that you
have no confidence in the CEO of Wellington Water.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, I have total confidences.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well why didn't you even speak?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Because what I was concerned about is that a lot
of a when he was asked what the cause or
potential cause was, he would say, but it was from
a Wellington Water point of view.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So but that's who that was, who was running it,
that was who made If there is a cock up,
I'm not saying there was a cocker. That's the organization
that cocked it up. If there was a cocker. But
he wasn't saying that they cocked it up. No, why
he couldn't speak. He was pointed at other potential causes
and I didn't think that was right. So, in a sense,
you know, Wellington Water has is self interested in and
(07:06):
trying to explain what was happening, and it wasn't right
that when in the water should be doing that because
if you went to Veolia, they'd have of you if
you want to Well, everyone tried to go to They
ran for them, ran spoken to Edi.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And it was actually the right thing to do. And
I don't think it helps also that over a period
of days and weeks we have all these all sort
of competing narratives about what happened. That's why the getting
an independent review set up quickly was important. I'm very
thankful to Minister Simon Watts and the Prime Minister to
set that up.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
To be fair, Why should people trust you on an
issue now? And I'm not doubting your trust. Why should
people trust you? Not the CEO of well Into Water.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I'm not out there trying to give a whole bunch
of different, conflicting and completing explanations about what happened. I
want Valentonian's to get what we do know, get that
out there, to get about the safety of the beach
or not safety about it and.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
To be fear a month later we know buggerl Yeah,
we know the people are Willington that have been affected
and the people of Lyle Bay that have been packed.
They know, bugger all, they've seen their mere jump in
the water and have a swim. Everything's okay. Three days
later you say, actually, hold off, let's not go in
the water.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I mighte not you.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This is not getting clearer, is it?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
No, we said, I said, what I leapt in the water?
I said, but look we are You know, when conditions change,
the advice will change. That is what has happened. We
don't know what the causes and until independent reviewers get
in there, and that's now in the government's ends. And
I understand from the Minister's office last week onto giving
the urgency to it, how independent reviewers they long that
were going to find out? Well, well, they told me
(08:44):
they can have a full final report done by June,
which is why I've said, can we have an interim
thing about the cause sooner that we need it? Sooner
than that. I'm hoping we'll get that within weeks, But
that's going to be up to those reviews and how
quickly they can get on top of the information and
get that conclusion out there.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
When does Pat Dody get his gag taken off? Well,
he's not he's not he's not gagged and isagh hold on, hold,
he is gagged. If I ring him up right now
and ask him to come on here, he'll say no,
please ring mister little. So he is gagged.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But Charles Baker, who's the chief operating officer from Welling
to Ward, he's been out there doing media doing stuff.
He was there with me last week doing a great job.
Welling Water is fine, and we want Wellington Water to
be focused on what they have to do, which is,
you know, getting the plants sorted out so they can
assess the damage, working at what the fix is going
to be, working at what the cost is going to be,
and getting on all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm
concerned why you've pushed Pat Dirty at the back and
brought the second is somehow Pat Dirty involved in this issue.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I'm not going to go no, no, not at all.
And Pat, Pat doubt in the time that he's been
chief executive Willing to Ward has done an incredible job
and actually getting Wellington Water back on track and getting
all the contracting issues out and getting the organization sorted out.
He's done a terrific job. And I don't want him
because I expect this will be his last major gig
and his career. He came out of a time to
do it. I don't want him to go down as
(10:10):
the person who was responsible for a big plant failure,
because he's not responsible for it. But equally I don't
want I don't want to get information out too well
in tin that might not be accurate about the cause
of the failure of the plant. So you've got to
get accurate.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Do you think it our monthly catch ups? Do you
think that next month will be still talking about my point?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Look, it's a big question because we were still we
will still be pumping raw surah down into the cork
straight in a month's time, so people may well be
asking about that, will know whether or not, whether it's
settled down, whether more people have been able to get
to the beach, walk their dogs on the beach. I
imagine it'll still be a question until we get the
plant for well, we have and it will be other
things have happened since. Will we have any idea of
what it's going to cost us the rate payers? Look,
(10:55):
I can't guarantee that.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I mean, you must have some figures in front of you.
You can't tell me that you run a business the
size of Wellington City count. If I've got to screw up,
I know exactly what it's all round about, what it's
going to cost me to fix it, and business you
must know that. Are we in for tens of millions
or hundreds of millions?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It will depends with the insurance falls and look it doesn't,
but I mean the total cost. And yeah, well in
terms of what we'll fall on Wellington rate payers. Again,
it will depend on with the insurance falls. We've got
to work with Taiaku Why, who's a new owner who
will take over from the first of July, and what
responsibility they will pick up for additional cost it will
(11:31):
be tens of millions of dollars. I expect that I.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
See an increase in my rate bill because of this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I don't expect. So we're doing everything we can to
have as lower level increase in rates. The water rates
part of the rates bill from the first of July
is kind of set anyway, when Taiaku Why takes over,
it's what happens from the first of July twenty twenty.
Can we just get it up. I've got to go
to a break. Can we just get a quick answer
on this one.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I believe that everything has to be one hundred percent
before you hand it over. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
What we've We've got to hand over a plant. It
doesn't have to be working because we're not allowed under
the law from the first of July, Wellington City Council
is not allowed to own a water treatment plant. That
plant even though it's crippled and hardly working at all.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So it can but you can pass it over broken.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, we won't have any option back to, but we
do want to have an agreement about what the fixed looks.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Can I just ask you something you mentioned in conversation.
You said there was three potential causes of the failure
of the mower point plant.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
What other three?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
So?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
One was a blockage in the long outfall right out
at sea, Another was an issue a design issue within
the plant itself. I don't know the detail of that.
And the other was the way a particular maintenance program
had been organized that meant that some parts of the
plant had to be sort of turned off. That may
have been a cause of it. So three different causes
(12:59):
have been explained to me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Can I just ask you one little quick question before
we go to a couple of callers too. Someone rang
me on the show and said that Viola is that
helped Dive put it La Violia had cut down their
twenty four hour surveillance and if they hadn't cut that down,
there'd have been someone there that could have fixed the
problem there. And then is it as simple as that?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I'm not aware of that. I mean, one of the
things we do know is that a set of alarms
that we expect should have gone off didn't go off.
The only alarm that went off was the fire alarm
and fens turned up, and that's how we knew the
problem was as bad as it was.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And can you explain to me how you know that
it's out of one of those three things when we
really don't know. Well, that's just what That's what people
have suggested to me, people from within the water services
industry and Wellington Water. That's those the options that they've
sort of put to me. Okay, we've got a caller
in that wants to ask Khmia Andrew little a question.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Good morning, James, good morning, good morning. My questions around
the Sledge Levy that you currently have approximately twenty two
thousand homes in the Wellington region aren't connected to the
my point sewage plant or that's or that sledge treatment
plant here. They've been compared old to pay thousands of
dollars over the next thirty years as part of the
part of the levy. How do you see that has
(14:13):
been reasonable, justified and fear to those people who don't
have the option to connect to it.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Good question, except that those people will also be moving
around about the city and they will use facilities and
other parts of the city too, So it's not quite
right to say that those people won't even benefit from
the sludge minimization plant.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, but from that though, the commercial premises also paint.
So I went to McDonald's in town use their toilet.
McDonald's already paying that sledge levy, and effectively you're saying
like you're the benefit of it. Well, it's already been
paid for.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yep, you do. And a whole bunch of other premises
too that aren't necessar really paying a commercial levy. So
I think the whole purpose of the sledge minimization plant
is to reduce the rapidly filling landfill that we've got.
We can slow that down there's benefits to the whole
community for that, whether you're connected to the system or not.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
That sounds pretty tough, doesn't it if you if you're
not connected, until you're still paying.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah. Look, I don't know quite. I don't know the
precise rules relating to that. I'm making my business to
go and find out, except that in the end we
do all benefit from the existence of that plant will
make a difference to all of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And the old poor commercial right paths have panned three
point seven percent anyway, so they're already pan and the
ludun and fran seven times in fact, yeah, three point
seven times. Yeah, Francis, good morning. You've got a question
for Mayor Andrew Little.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
You know, I'm a bit of a future thinker and
I like to think that in FIDE's time, if somebody's had,
you know, a bug that just won't go away and
they keep getting the antibiotics antibotics at this moment, have
the Health Department organized for the medical gps to be
(16:01):
reporting issues that could be concerned with what's coming out
of all of that. And also then in five years
time with ac C would have difficulty giving a claim
and with a lower immune system. Would that be their
reason not, because they're very good.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
At that well. On the first question, and there are
certain health conditions that GPS are required to notify to
the Ministry of Health Campbell a doctor is one of them.
They have to report that to the health authorities. Because
that has to be chased up. On the question about
whether acc applies, it's probably outside my arimit is mayor
(16:41):
to comment about that. One of the things that I
spoke earlier of having a coffee at Farry when I
was on the weekend and a guy came up to
me and he said, I said, what are you doing
this weekend? I said, I'm just doing my normal working
and doing my normal stuff. He said, I'm about to
take my son out fishing. He said, I want your advice.
If I catch some fish, would I eat it? And
(17:02):
I said, God, don't ask me. You know, I'm but paranoid.
I'd say no, what would you say? I'd ask where
they were recorded from, if you've got it, if you
caught it kept tart afaty or something, I'd happily eat it.
If it was further around towards with the out fullers,
I might question it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
But how do we know, because you know, I've got
to have met Friday nights. I like a fish and
chip Friday night. And I thought to myself, you know what,
I don't feel. I don't feel completely happy you have
him a fishing chip.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I think the fish and chips will be fine. I think, Look,
I know one of the people I'm catching up with
soon nextally is Penny Mercer, and he was the one
of that. He was a counselor who campaigned on stopping
there putting raw zeroge out to the into the sea.
And he won't like me saying this, but one of
the people we had at the public meeting a couple
of weeks ago was a guy who said that they
where their long outfall is and the depth that it's
(17:52):
discharging too. It means that the risk of contaminated of
sewerage being widespread right across the Cock Strait as pretty
much zero, and so we shouldn't worry too much about
it if you're fishing, if you're fishing out west or
even further out east, you'll be okay. But if you're
in close proximity to wear the outfall is that that'll
(18:12):
be the problem.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We had former Justice Mayor Justin Lester on the show,
and he said that none of this improvements would have
been made possible if it wasn't for Ray Mercer. Have
we not given him the credit that when he was
on council he fought like Hammer and Tom. I mean,
surely we should as a council do something to recognize
him for that work.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Sure, that's a good question answer. I'll go back and
from Suh. I'm meeting him literally, if not today then
tomorrow I'll ask him about that whether he got recognition
because he should, because he should be recognized for it,
and knowing that the local locally, we would be very
thankful for the fact that he, year after years, stood
up for that and thought for it we do something different.
He fought for it well.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
X Meth said it wouldn't have happened without him wanting
to Mey or Andrew Little in the studio with us. Andrew,
I've got to ask you about these bus lanes things,
because we did an hour on the show of it
a couple of weeks ago and six million bucks you're
raking in. I mean, there's also been talked around the
country about that. Are these fines attacks are you you know,
I mean it's quite ludicrous. And I mean if you
(19:15):
come and if you didn't, you wouldn't have come in
the back door, you would have come in the front door.
So if you come in the back door here we've
got bus lanes, bus lane and the staff here are
getting nabbed all the time.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, and so too thing. I mean, first of all,
the penalty, the level of penalty one hundred and fifty
dollars penalty is set by the government, yes, and regulation,
so we don't have a control over that. The stuff
we do get to control over as a whether we
have a bus lane and then be the signage and
all the rest of it. So the in terms of
the bus lanes around Wellington, I've asked and the officimans
tell me all the signage complies with the regulations. That's
(19:47):
that response. There is a bigger question, I think, particularly
down Cambridge Terrace some extent Rudiford Street, is whether the
bus lane needs to be twelve hours a day, seven
days a week. I mean, I've you know, I've been
down particularly Cambridge Terrasts and a weekend we've been almost
sort of bumped to bumper traffic in the one lane
that is for cars. Absolutely nothing in the bus lane.
(20:07):
And the whole time has taken me to get down there.
So I have spoken to the officials responsible for that.
That bus lane is a year or coming up to
a year old. Took a last April. So I've said,
how about it one year, we do a review, Let's
check the data, let's see what the numbers are, and
let's see whether we actually need to have a bus
lane that's twelve hours a day, seven days a week.
(20:28):
Because I remain to be convinced.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know the data. But obviously it's a money earned
now for the council. So I mean, if that's six
million dollars is cut to three million dollars, that's other
cuts you've got to make. So obviously you're not going
to be too eager to drop that. AA.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I don't want. I don't want to counsel that balances
box by penalizing it's it's a citizens What sort of
future is there for that?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I think when you look at you do that every
time I get a bill, that's pretty pretty hard to
start that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now. I know that we you know, we thought that
we do that. We do things also in exchange with
that that make people happy. But anyway, on the bus
lane thing, but we know that it was pretty high collection.
I think the first month the collection rate or the
amount collected has fallen, but it looks to me it's
still like two and a half thousand tickets I think estually,
(21:16):
and at the end of last year in December, I think,
so that still seems high to me. That just suggests
to me that people still are not seeing the sign
and still don't get it that it's a bus lane,
that they could be penalized.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Can I just quickly interrupt there and say that a
lot of people I talked to say they don't want
to come into town because they don't know where the
bus lanes are and what's going on, and they're terrified
at getting one hundred and fifty dollars. Fine, Can I
just ask you, do you have ever had one?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
No? Never have no, but I have been. I was
a passenger in a car with a friend of mine
who was driving in the bus lane. This is at
the beginning of this year, in fact, and I said,
you do know you're in a bus lane. You need
to move into the other lane, and he no, there's
not a bus lane where does it say that, And
of course I struggled to point a sign where there
was a bus lane. In the end, he was persuaded
that he should change lanes. He didn't get a ticket
(22:00):
as a consequence, but it goes to show for someone
who he doesn't regularly drive in Wellington, but he could
not see the signage.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And I think that's a common problem. That is a
common problem people coming from out of town. I hear
it all the time as well. When will we see
something some change? Will we see anything? It's just a
little bit of chat make people feel a bit better
and nothing.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Now I'm determined, as I said, I talked to the
officials last week about it all and said, you know,
we need to have a look at this. They said,
the one year kind of anniversary is coming up. It's
next month, so I said, let's do a one year
review and just see what it looks like. So I
expect to see something with the review next month. It'll
be might be another month or two after that. But
I am keen to see some action on this because
(22:40):
I am not yet persuaded that particularly that Cambridge terists
bus lane. Can I talk to be there as it is?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Can I just mention the Cambridge terrorists Kent terraces being selfish,
because that's ridiculous one lane for that, I mean, it's
just not right. Is there any chance we could get
a change in that. I think you for the reasons
you say.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You look at how crowded that that lane, that one
remaining traffic lane gets, particularly in the weekends, I think
there does need to be a change. I'm the mayor,
I'm one vote around the table and one person in
the organization. I will be doing what I can just
to be to be convinced that what is the arrangement
that's in place at the moment is fear. I'm yet
(23:20):
to be convinced of that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
What about six am till eleven pm?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, that's what I mean. I think that the twelve
hour of day thing is is unnecessary. Twenty four hour
or twenty four hour, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's it's twelve hour at the moment. I think it's
I thought I thought it was more. I could be wrong,
one of us is wrong. You carry on. I'm pretty
sure it's twelve hour a day, but I need to
be convinced that it warrants twelve hour day restriction. Government
has just granted the move on orders to police to
move rough sleepers, disrupting late, disrupting people, you know, just
trying to get around and do their business. I mean, what, what,
(23:57):
what's your thoughts done?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah? I get I get the no one wants to
walk up a street and there's somebody being anti social
or sort of behaving a weird sort of way. But
the reality is that they get to move on order
and move on. We are what They're going to go
around the block, go down the next street. A lot
of these people I know this, but a lot of
these people because we have a team in the city
council who are set up to deal with these people
(24:20):
and try and work out the problems. A lot of
them they don't have housing, or if they do get housing,
they don't get any support, and actually they can't manage
to kind of be on their own or even sometimes
with others. They need a whole heap of support that
guys with that. I met with local police leaders a
couple of weeks ago we had talked about this problem.
They were adamant to me. They said, look, we don't
(24:40):
want to be in the position of telling people they
have to go somewhere else. Because they don't know where
they'll go and they just become a problem further down
the track for the police. And then meeting with all
the agencies, including the police last week who deal with
the rough sleepers and the homeless, they were telling me
what the issues are with getting housing and all the
rest of it. So there's a lot of effort going
and to dealing with them getting supports. They need mental
(25:02):
health support. We get somebody from Health New Zealand there.
So there's a lot of eff it going going into that.
It's pretty slow moving and we have to do better,
but I'm not sure just slapping somebody with an order
that means that if they breach their liable to a
two thousand dollars fine they can't pay is the solution
to much more complex probable.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How much of this is mental health a.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Fair amount of it. I mean, these are people with addictions,
still recovering from addictions and stuff. Others I've got other
mental health issues where they can't make decisions or can't
make decisions for themselves and they need some support and
assistance to live a decent life.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Is it time that we pushed for a regional mental
health hospital again?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah? I think some better residential support for people. I
think that's where we can do better. I think, you know,
I remember the debates in the eighties and stuff, and
they said, look, we institutionalized too many people. Will let
them all out, And that was kind of one part
of the response. The other part of the response was
making sure that there was the support and help in
the community to help people live their decent lives.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
We never funded them, no, And that's probably the area
that we need to discuss. Because I was around all
these mental health places were closed down. Everyone said, but
we're going to put them into regional homes and housing
and protect them and do and everyone screened out that
the problem is going to be they're going to live
on the street. And what's happened.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what's happened because because the supports
not there, and that's what we have to fix up.
I look, there's some amazing agencies, the Downtown City Ministry,
Willington City Mission, Housing first, all good, good agencies doing
their best. You know, Wellington City Mission and Downtown City Ministry.
They've got health, free health services available for these guys.
(26:36):
Why are we bring clinics and sort.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Of stuff can I just ask, and I'm interrupting being
rude because I want to get on with it. So
why are we not seeing those agencies actually helping those
people actually being there on the streets, Because I have
two people living outside my business. You know, why are
we not seeing them helping them?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Well, I think they are and they've got They've all
got people who go out and about in the street.
The Wellington City Council's got a handful of people who
are out every day in the street checking in with
these people, seeing what they need, trying to work with
them and government agencies and others to try and give
them the help that they need. So that help is there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Can I tell you, and I live on the streets.
I don't live on the streets, but I'm on the
streets the whole time. I have never ever ever seen
anybody giving any of them any help, and of any
agency not having a go counsel and any agencies. I
mean I've seen police. I've seen police talk to the
only and you know, I spend a lot of time
seeing that. If you've just joined the show, we've got
(27:34):
one into Mayor Andrew Little in the studio for his
monthly Catch up. I don't know whether you've been reading
and much about it or thinking much about it, but
the whole idea of the second Mount Victoria Tunnel seems
to have gone on a little bit of a hold.
Chris Bishop saying that he wants to look at congestion
charges and look at a whole lot of other things.
We've got the Mayor of Auckland yesterday saying that if
(27:55):
he's thinking about running for Parliament and willing to might
get this second tunnel, what's it got to do with him?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Good question, and love one dearly as I do, as
everybody no doubt does. It was a little bit confusing,
I think after the Infrastructure Commission report came out that
said we should focus on on fixing up what we've
got rather than shining new things. I think Chris Bushop
sort of took that sort of literally and it looked
like he wasn't as committed to the Mount Wick Tunnel
(28:23):
as others were. Then Nikola Willis came out pretty much
the same day said now she totally committed to it
was to see it happen. So I think there are
benefits to it. I know, look, there's a there's a
you know competing views even in Wellington about that. Some
say spend the money on other sort of transport initiatives,
but anything that moves traffic through the city more efficiently.
And of course it's not just Wellingtonians, it's people outside
(28:45):
Wellington trying to get to the airport. We want that
to happen as efficiently as possible, so I think there
are benefits for it. I think the value of the
investment would be a huge boost to the Wellington economy
as well. We do have to get the design right.
I think the design that they've gone out to the
public on did have some challenges and I know the
government's got some feedback about that. We're king to sit down.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Because you are you having that discussion? Is that ongoing?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I expect now that the public submissions have closed, I
expect that the officials from their city council will do
They know, they're very keen to They've got a very
clear idea about what will work and what won't work.
So I expect that will be happening very shortly. But
we've got to we've got to know from the government,
with the committed to seeing the project through in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
What's your gut telling you.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
A month ago they seem or two months ago they
seem very keen to see it through. In Faiate, I
was told that will be the top priority. Unlike the
Patonia to grenade sort of thing which they put on
they're going to put on the back burner, but the
amount tunnel thing they wanted to be a top priority.
I was told that no, Chris Bishett wanted to see
shovels on the ground by the end of the year.
I thought that was a bit ambitious. So I'm just
(29:52):
I'm just a little confused about what level of priority
it might have now.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I think I think Wellingtonians are too when their
infrastructure bosses, oh, we'll look at other things first. I mean,
I think we're all a bit concerned and we should be.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it is my job to try
and get some clarity from ministers as soon as I can.
I'm in discussions with them over the next few weeks
and I will do Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I said in an editorial just before, how I really
really enjoyed Warrington this last weekend. It does feel better,
doesn't it. Yeah, that's my sense.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I got around at and about Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon,
and that you've got a sense that people are out
enjoying the sun when we had it. But people are
getting out and about in Wellington, and I've sort of
noticed that last week getting around town during the course
of the week. I like to walk to meetings and
engagements that I've got. I enjoy seeing people out and about.
(30:45):
There seem to be a lot more people around too,
So it's looking good.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Are you concerned, as mayor of Wellington about the Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, Like I I didn't watch the whole of that game.
I just saw the news snippets of their of their
big loss, the five and a loss, and you could
see after that first goal, that owned goal, you could
see the players that the confidence just sceppt from them,
and that I think showed in the rest of the game.
You know, there is a sense that it's a team
that kind of regenerates on a rapid sort of basis.
(31:19):
So I'm hoping that the new coach, when they're confirmed
on the new coaching team, their job, I think is
to give that team, a young, young team that conference
help just to get out there and just forget what
the past looks like, focus on, focus, on that next
goal as well.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Are you concerned that your major stadium, Henry Stadium now
gets such low crowds? I mean, I think it was
over just around three thousand. Just a quick answer, because
I've got to go. I mean, are you, as a
mayor of the city, concerned about that.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I'm very keen to get it back and behind the
Phoenix and the Hurricanes too. We've got to get behind
our sports teams that represent us, that wave the Wellington
flag and represent who we are. And I'm going to
do that with the Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Thank you for coming in, Thank you for taking I
know you've got a very busy schedule. You probably got
a little bit of a pressed thing to go to.
You've got to go for another swim this afternoon when.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
The winther tunes comes right, the sun's rounding again. Sure.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Thank you for joining us this morning. Wanting to Mayor
Andrew Little joining us.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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