September 24, 2026 • 9 mins
Two men who set out to change their world—one for himself, and one for others.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Aaron Menke's Cabinet of Curiosities, a production of
iHeartRadio and Grim & Mild.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Our world is full of the unexplainable. And if history
is an open book, all of these amazing tales are
right there on display, just waiting for us to explore.
Welcome to the Cabinet of Curiosities. If you grew up
(00:37):
in America, you're familiar with this story. A barefoot wanderer
dressed in rags with a tin pot on his head
and a burlap sack filled with seeds in his hands.
He was said to radiate kindness. He was a friend
to man and animal, never met a stranger he couldn't
call a friend, and he blanketed the country with apple trees.
His fame spread far and wide and inspired stories and songs,
(01:00):
as well as a 1948 animated feature by Walt Disney himself,
that helped to cement his legend for new generations. Johnny
Appleseed was a sort of American St. Francis, pure and good,
a man whose kindness and generosity were universally beloved, a
man whose wealth could be counted in apple blossoms and
(01:20):
not dollars. And believe it or not, these stories aren't
too far off the actual mark. John Chapman was born
in 1774 to a revolutionary Minuteman, At the age of two,
his mother died giving birth to one of his siblings.
His father remarried, and eventually the Chapman household would welcome
an additional 10 children. Beyond that, we don't know very
(01:42):
much about his early family life. We do know that
by the mid-1790s, he was living in western Pennsylvania in
a cabin on Pittsburgh's Grant Hill.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
There, he tended a small orchard. At the same time,
German cider mills were popping up south of the city.
An investigation by Chapman revealed that within the piles of
leftover pulp from the cider presses were a bevy of
usable seeds. He saw an opportunity in those seeds. You see,
the Ohio Company of Associates, a land speculation and settlement company,
(02:14):
had just announced that settlers could claim 100 acres of
frontier property on the condition that they plant 50 apple
trees in and 20 peach trees to prove that they
would stay permanently. And so Chapman began to collect the
discarded seeds from the cider breweries, and then struck out
for the territories himself, planting nurseries strategically as he went,
(02:35):
near water sources and travel routes, and near growing settlements.
And then he would wander on, only to return years
later to sell the orchard to local farmers. And in
doing so, he made himself a singular supplier capable of
serving the settlers that followed behind. That's not to say
that he was some reptilian businessman. There is much truth
(02:58):
to the legend of the sort of man that he was.
John Chapman was religious and a deeply spiritual man. He
believed in the virtues of living a simple life and
frequently would give sermons on the topic as he traveled.
And he walked the walk quite literally. He lived as
a pauper, frequently walking barefoot, and traded apple trees for
secondhand clothes. His religion also had bearing on how he
(03:22):
grew his trees. You see, he believed deeply in the
welfare of all living beings. There are accounts of him
refusing to swap mosquitoes, and that respect extended to the
plants that he tended. Most of the apples we get
from stores come from limbs that were grafted onto other trees,
so that the farmer has full control over the type
of apples he can get. Apples are also notoriously finicky,
(03:45):
genetically speaking, and so apples grown from seed are more
likely to be unpleasantly sour and are usually only good
for fermentation into alcoholic cider. But John's faith told him
that it was unjust, that grafting caused the trees to suffer,
and so the cider that came from his trees was
frequently used as medicine or occasionally as currency. John Chapman
(04:08):
traveled for 50 years. In that time, he accumulated 1,200
acres of nurseries, and in 1842, he finally settled in
Ohio at the home of his brother. Three years later,
he caught pneumonia while visiting a friend, and he passed away.
Sometimes knowing the full story makes a person come to life.
(04:28):
And I think we shortchange John Chapman by simply flattening
him into the legendary figure of Johnny Appleseed. We lose
so much of his character. And in a world where
we need more charity, mercy, and an occasional grounding, I
feel like that's a loss. Johnny Appleseed gave those things
to us. A hero to root for. A saint. But
(04:50):
we also forget that John Chapman's particular genius was that
he had a vision. He was capable of seeing value
where no one else thought to look. In a pile
of apple pulp, he saw compassion and conservation. Some heads
(05:17):
of state are born into leadership. Others are elected by
their citizens. And some have to invent their own kingdoms
to rule. And that last category summarizes the life of
a French adventurer named Marie-Charles-David de Maréna, better remembered as
the King of Sedan. Born in France in 1842, the
(05:38):
first 40 years of Maréna' s life were somewhat less than regal.
He fled Paris in 1883 to escape embezzlement charges and
eventually ended up running a plantation in Vietnam. While there,
the daring ex-con saw a brilliant opportunity to expand his fortunes,
He convinced the French government to appoint him as an
(05:59):
envoy to negotiate treaties with the local tribespeople. Now, Morena
had no diplomatic experience, but he did have charisma and ambition,
and that was enough to convince French officials that he
was the right man for the job. So, with the
blessing of the French government and the assistance of a
local missionary priest, Morena donned a military uniform and ventured
(06:21):
into the highlands to meet with tribal leaders. His task,
simply put, was to convince the leaders to give their
territory over to France. But Morena had other plans. Instead
of asking them to ally with France, he convinced them
to band together and form a new kingdom of their own,
called Sedang, with him as the king. And he was
(06:41):
so persuasive that they actually agreed. Morena, now styled as
King Marie I, briefly ruled over about 15,000 square miles
of territory. He drafted a constitution, designed a flag, created
an army, appointed nobles, and even issued postage stamps. By
every official measure, Sa Dong was a European-style monarchy in
(07:03):
the middle of the Vietnamese highlands. But like everything Morena did,
this wasn't just about pomp and circumstance. It was also
a get-rich-quick scheme. Because, surprise, surprise, some people take power
simply to line their pockets. Within a few months of
double-crossing the French government to claim this territory as his own,
Morena returned to France and made the tour of high
(07:26):
society parties and cafes, selling noble titles and medals of
honor to anyone who would pledge support to Sedan. He
also approached French officials and offered to cede his kingdom
to them in exchange for a monopoly on the region's
mineral rights. But the French didn't bite. They refused to
negotiate with Sedang, which, in their view, was an illegitimate
(07:48):
regime that should never have existed at all. And so
Morena went to the British with a similar offer, but
they were equally skeptical. Even with his royal title and
medals of honor, no one would take him seriously as
a head of state. And while he was gallivanting across
Europe trying to earn recognition, the political situation in Vietnam
(08:08):
was marching on without him. By the time Morena returned
to Southeast Asia, he was stopped at the port by
a French naval blockade. While he was gone, the French
military had closed in on Sedang and taken control of
the whole region. They refused to allow the king of
Sedang to return to what was once, at least briefly,
his kingdom. Dejected, Morena sought refuge on an island off
(08:33):
the Malay Peninsula, where he soon died under unclear circumstances.
And without him, the kingdom of Sedang vanished just as
quickly as it had appeared. I hope you enjoyed today's
guided tour through the Cabinet of Curiosities. This show was
created by me, Aaron Manke, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts,
(08:56):
researched and written by the Grim & Mild team, and
produced by Jesse Funk. Learn more about the show and
the people who make it over at grimandmild.com slash curiosities.
You'll also find a link to the official Cabinet of
Curiosities hardcover book, available in bookstores and online, as well
as ebook and audiobooks. And if you're looking for an
ad-free option, consider joining our Patreon. It's all the same stories,
(09:19):
but without the interruption for a small monthly fee. Learn
more and sign up over at patreon.com slash grim and mild.
And until next time, stay curious.
Welcome to Aaron Menke's Cabinet of Curiosities, a production of
iHeartRadio and Grim & Mild.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Our world is full of the unexplainable. And if history
is an open book, all of these amazing tales are
right there on display, just waiting for us to explore.
Welcome to the Cabinet of Curiosities. If you grew up
(00:37):
in America, you're familiar with this story. A barefoot wanderer
dressed in rags with a tin pot on his head
and a burlap sack filled with seeds in his hands.
He was said to radiate kindness. He was a friend
to man and animal, never met a stranger he couldn't
call a friend, and he blanketed the country with apple trees.
His fame spread far and wide and inspired stories and songs,
(01:00):
as well as a 1948 animated feature by Walt Disney himself,
that helped to cement his legend for new generations. Johnny
Appleseed was a sort of American St. Francis, pure and good,
a man whose kindness and generosity were universally beloved, a
man whose wealth could be counted in apple blossoms and
(01:20):
not dollars. And believe it or not, these stories aren't
too far off the actual mark. John Chapman was born
in 1774 to a revolutionary Minuteman, At the age of two,
his mother died giving birth to one of his siblings.
His father remarried, and eventually the Chapman household would welcome
an additional 10 children. Beyond that, we don't know very
(01:42):
much about his early family life. We do know that
by the mid-1790s, he was living in western Pennsylvania in
a cabin on Pittsburgh's Grant Hill.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
There, he tended a small orchard. At the same time,
German cider mills were popping up south of the city.
An investigation by Chapman revealed that within the piles of
leftover pulp from the cider presses were a bevy of
usable seeds. He saw an opportunity in those seeds. You see,
the Ohio Company of Associates, a land speculation and settlement company,
(02:14):
had just announced that settlers could claim 100 acres of
frontier property on the condition that they plant 50 apple
trees in and 20 peach trees to prove that they
would stay permanently. And so Chapman began to collect the
discarded seeds from the cider breweries, and then struck out
for the territories himself, planting nurseries strategically as he went,
(02:35):
near water sources and travel routes, and near growing settlements.
And then he would wander on, only to return years
later to sell the orchard to local farmers. And in
doing so, he made himself a singular supplier capable of
serving the settlers that followed behind. That's not to say
that he was some reptilian businessman. There is much truth
(02:58):
to the legend of the sort of man that he was.
John Chapman was religious and a deeply spiritual man. He
believed in the virtues of living a simple life and
frequently would give sermons on the topic as he traveled.
And he walked the walk quite literally. He lived as
a pauper, frequently walking barefoot, and traded apple trees for
secondhand clothes. His religion also had bearing on how he
(03:22):
grew his trees. You see, he believed deeply in the
welfare of all living beings. There are accounts of him
refusing to swap mosquitoes, and that respect extended to the
plants that he tended. Most of the apples we get
from stores come from limbs that were grafted onto other trees,
so that the farmer has full control over the type
of apples he can get. Apples are also notoriously finicky,
(03:45):
genetically speaking, and so apples grown from seed are more
likely to be unpleasantly sour and are usually only good
for fermentation into alcoholic cider. But John's faith told him
that it was unjust, that grafting caused the trees to suffer,
and so the cider that came from his trees was
frequently used as medicine or occasionally as currency. John Chapman
(04:08):
traveled for 50 years. In that time, he accumulated 1,200
acres of nurseries, and in 1842, he finally settled in
Ohio at the home of his brother. Three years later,
he caught pneumonia while visiting a friend, and he passed away.
Sometimes knowing the full story makes a person come to life.
(04:28):
And I think we shortchange John Chapman by simply flattening
him into the legendary figure of Johnny Appleseed. We lose
so much of his character. And in a world where
we need more charity, mercy, and an occasional grounding, I
feel like that's a loss. Johnny Appleseed gave those things
to us. A hero to root for. A saint. But
(04:50):
we also forget that John Chapman's particular genius was that
he had a vision. He was capable of seeing value
where no one else thought to look. In a pile
of apple pulp, he saw compassion and conservation. Some heads
(05:17):
of state are born into leadership. Others are elected by
their citizens. And some have to invent their own kingdoms
to rule. And that last category summarizes the life of
a French adventurer named Marie-Charles-David de Maréna, better remembered as
the King of Sedan. Born in France in 1842, the
(05:38):
first 40 years of Maréna' s life were somewhat less than regal.
He fled Paris in 1883 to escape embezzlement charges and
eventually ended up running a plantation in Vietnam. While there,
the daring ex-con saw a brilliant opportunity to expand his fortunes,
He convinced the French government to appoint him as an
(05:59):
envoy to negotiate treaties with the local tribespeople. Now, Morena
had no diplomatic experience, but he did have charisma and ambition,
and that was enough to convince French officials that he
was the right man for the job. So, with the
blessing of the French government and the assistance of a
local missionary priest, Morena donned a military uniform and ventured
(06:21):
into the highlands to meet with tribal leaders. His task,
simply put, was to convince the leaders to give their
territory over to France. But Morena had other plans. Instead
of asking them to ally with France, he convinced them
to band together and form a new kingdom of their own,
called Sedang, with him as the king. And he was
(06:41):
so persuasive that they actually agreed. Morena, now styled as
King Marie I, briefly ruled over about 15,000 square miles
of territory. He drafted a constitution, designed a flag, created
an army, appointed nobles, and even issued postage stamps. By
every official measure, Sa Dong was a European-style monarchy in
(07:03):
the middle of the Vietnamese highlands. But like everything Morena did,
this wasn't just about pomp and circumstance. It was also
a get-rich-quick scheme. Because, surprise, surprise, some people take power
simply to line their pockets. Within a few months of
double-crossing the French government to claim this territory as his own,
Morena returned to France and made the tour of high
(07:26):
society parties and cafes, selling noble titles and medals of
honor to anyone who would pledge support to Sedan. He
also approached French officials and offered to cede his kingdom
to them in exchange for a monopoly on the region's
mineral rights. But the French didn't bite. They refused to
negotiate with Sedang, which, in their view, was an illegitimate
(07:48):
regime that should never have existed at all. And so
Morena went to the British with a similar offer, but
they were equally skeptical. Even with his royal title and
medals of honor, no one would take him seriously as
a head of state. And while he was gallivanting across
Europe trying to earn recognition, the political situation in Vietnam
(08:08):
was marching on without him. By the time Morena returned
to Southeast Asia, he was stopped at the port by
a French naval blockade. While he was gone, the French
military had closed in on Sedang and taken control of
the whole region. They refused to allow the king of
Sedang to return to what was once, at least briefly,
his kingdom. Dejected, Morena sought refuge on an island off
(08:33):
the Malay Peninsula, where he soon died under unclear circumstances.
And without him, the kingdom of Sedang vanished just as
quickly as it had appeared. I hope you enjoyed today's
guided tour through the Cabinet of Curiosities. This show was
created by me, Aaron Manke, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts,
(08:56):
researched and written by the Grim & Mild team, and
produced by Jesse Funk. Learn more about the show and
the people who make it over at grimandmild.com slash curiosities.
You'll also find a link to the official Cabinet of
Curiosities hardcover book, available in bookstores and online, as well
as ebook and audiobooks. And if you're looking for an
ad-free option, consider joining our Patreon. It's all the same stories,
(09:19):
but without the interruption for a small monthly fee. Learn
more and sign up over at patreon.com slash grim and mild.
And until next time, stay curious.
Aaron Mahnke's Cabinet of Curiosities News
Host
Aaron Mahnke
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