February 25, 2026 • 25 mins
Digital wellness expert Larz May shares resolutions for having a better relationship with technology
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Advice they have for the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So today I am delighted to welcome Lars May to
Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Lars is a leader in the digital.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Wellness movement, something I know a lot of people here
are thinking about and about our relationship with technology.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So Lars, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Good morning, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm delighted to have you here. So why don't
you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
My name is Lars. I am one of the founders
of the Digital Wellness movement, and I believe in building
a life where we can find harmony with technology as
opposed to allowing technology to take control of our senses.
What inspired me to get involved in this space was
ten years ago after almost losing my life to technology
as a young person, and that led me to start
(01:07):
Half the Story, which is a nonprofit and a mission
to empower the next generation's relationship with technology and now Ginko,
a new business that aims at bringing parents closer to
their kids and using tech as a way to give
them signals about what's really going on beneath the surface
of screen time.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Absolutely well with screen time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I mean, I know a lot of the headlines are
about things with you know, mental health, and I know
you've had a journey with that as well, But beyond
even that, I mean, on a fundamental level, I think
what gets at a lot of people about the screen
time issue is that it's a sheer volume of time, right,
Like that people are spending so much time engage with
their screens and it winds up being a significant chunk
(01:50):
of the day. I mean, I know you've done research
into this, like how much time are we talking here?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Well, the average teenager will spend thirty years of their
life behind a screen. Most of you that are listening
to this right now probably picked up your phone within
three minutes of waking up, and most people are picking
up their phone ninety six times a day. But what
we don't talk about is that screen time is just
the surface. Screens are really symptoms for what we're experiencing
(02:19):
or what our needs are that need to be met.
Oftentimes are reaching for screens because we're feeling anxious, or
we're bored, or we're feeling disconnected from our partners. So
I really think we need to flip the script on
screen time and really start thinking about digital wellness as
brain health and a larger movement, but really with actions
that help us get better at it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean I'm sure people think about it. Okay, Yeah,
past three minutes, I've probably picked up my phone. I
mean people are listening to this podcasts, probably on their phone,
so they may have forwarded through an ad or something
like that. But you know, I don't know that many people,
if they sat and thought about it, be like, yes,
I would love to spend thirty years of my life
on a phone, or yes, I would love to pick
up my phone ninety six time to day.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I mean it's kind of unintentional, right, absolutely, It's then
our subconscious and what we have to do is retrain
our brain quite literally, think of this as a new
wellness so that we can preserve our cognition and memory.
Because the moment that we're in right now, the question
is not how much screen time do we have that's
been the issue of the last thirty years. Now the
(03:20):
question is is how is screens or technology at large,
with open AI now creating wearables, how is that going
to change the way that humans interact with themselves? But ultimately,
how do we preserve humanity the things that make us
us on a daily basis? And it sounds crazy, but
for many of us how we start our day can
(03:43):
be very human and those small practices can actually change
our outcomes and help us go from good to great
from an emotional baseline a social baseline. And that's why
I believe screen time is a symptom and that we
ultimately can't be thinking about all screen time is the
same but really more about like food and to be
really conscious about one are we creating online versus one
(04:06):
are we consuming in order to preserve our emotional baseline?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah? Well, I like that food analogy because I mean,
much as with food, there's a lot that is within
your control. You cannot give it up one hundred percent,
And in the modern world it's probably the same with screens, correct.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Absolutely, And so how would.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You define sort of digital wellness?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I mean, if we're looking for a way of thinking
about this, what is digital wellness.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Digital wellness is the ability to practice and cultivate a
positive relationship with technology that supports your life rather than
hurts it. So what that really is is small practices
which I think we'll get into in a minute, that
over time move big doors.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, let's go ahead and start with this.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I know you have some ideas if people are setting
kind of digital wellness resolutions, much as we might set
resolutions to eat more healthily or get to the gym
more often.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We talked through a few of this. What's one of
the first ones you'd recommend.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
The first one is to intentionally go AI free one
day a week. I think we talk a lot about
tech detoxes, which is great, but the reality is is
that every time we're using AI, we're not actively engaging
our brain, and so making that small shift one day
a week can be incredible for your cognition. The second
thing is actually taking handwritten notes during meetings. Research shows
(05:26):
us that ultimately handwriting will help you with memory and cognition,
and that when you leave a meeting, mostly in the
digital world now, that you'll actually have better recall and process.
So many of us already have AI note takers, and
I think it's easy to go into autopilot, but handwriting
actually slows us down.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I love that actually, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's not just having a record of the meeting, it's
the note taking process about getting it into your brain
where you can actually use it.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah, and we've lost that. I'm not sure if you
saw the article about middle schoolers trying to bring back
cursive in school, and we've seen stationary shops are booming now,
but humans are craving the need to communicate. Our ability
to emote and to connect with others is something that
defines us from technology. We have to know when to
(06:15):
swap screens with scripts, when to swap emails for snail mail.
And I ultimately believe from my own experience that to
go from good to great in a day, to really
feel like you're sitting and processing a tough interaction or
even a creative brainstorm, you have to go beyond the
screen and into the script or the notebook, which I
(06:37):
have a bunch of them on my desk. And that's
another tip I like to say, which is everyone's talking
about the analog bag, what about the analog desk? On
my desk, I have beads to make friendship bracelets that
I don't multitask in meetings.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
We need to.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Break the scroll cycle by having things to actually engage
us when we feel the need to multitask, which isn't
even really something that humans can do.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
All right, So we're going to take one quick ad
break and then we'll be back with more on digital
wellness from Lars may.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I am back.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Talking with Lars may who's a leader in the digital
wellness movement, and I love the idea that you just said.
You have friendship bracelet making kits on your desk. You're
holding it up. I wish our listeners could see that.
And you mentioned that's about not multitasking when you're doing
I mean, are you doing that to keep your hands
occupied while you're listening to things or just as a
total break.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm curious how you incorporate that.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Absolutely, I believe that in the world that we're living in,
if you're a CEO or you're on the other side
of the screen, I would bet that nine times out
of ten, the person you're meeting with is probably checking
their phone or their email during that meeting. You are
not getting undivided attention. And so for me, by having
a friendship bracelet or knitting, or even just a notebook
(07:57):
to jop down my notes is my commitment to undivided
an attention, and I oftentimes share at.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
The beginning of the meeting.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I want you to know I'm making a friendship bracelet
or I'm coloring my pug coloring book because I don't
want to be tempted to multitask and to pick up
my phone. And it's something that I think we've just
normalized multitasking, but it's actually not true. What you're doing
is switch tasking, and you're giving everything ten percent or
(08:24):
fifteen percent as opposed to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Because it's like you need that one little thing to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
People have a slight bit of nervous energy, and I
guess the friendship bracelet making is a way to capture that,
or maybe something like walking while you are having a meeting.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I've got my walking treadmill down here.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I wasn't going to do that for this, but really
getting out of our heads and into our bodies in
order to get into the present in the digital world.
And there's a new concept that I've been hanging my
hat on, which is really digital attunement, which is how
can we use digital technologies to convene and actually better
attune to our own needs and others to lead to
(09:01):
more human and better outcomes. And I believe that the
way that we're designing technology, but ultimately our lives needs
to be thinking about those nuances as opposed to just
checklists and how we're spending our time, but really adding
that intention, because the difference between a minute and a
moment is that intention.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, we've been going through some of these digital wellness resolutions.
I know we had go AI free one day a week.
Maybe just on a practical level, I mean, I guess
you have to be careful about what you're doing with
your browser, even if that because a lot of it's automatic.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Right, Well, what I really mean is that do not
go on claud or open AI.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For a day.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And what that forces you to do is actually write
every email, actually take handwritten notes from the meeting. Sometimes
what I'll do is I'll actually capture notes on my
notebook and I'll take photos and upload them to AI
to then translate them to the digital world, which I
think is a really phenomenal practice.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
When the world We'll started.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Using Google maps, and we moved on a map quest.
I think we all probably remember our parents printed that
out and it was like, we need to make a
guide for the road. You didn't have to think about
that anymore because you started going into autopilot. What happens
in the digital world is that when we go to
AI for every single answer, or to write every single email,
(10:21):
even personal emails or texts, our brain is going into autopilot.
So you have to make that choice to rev up
the engine that is your brain and strengthen that muscle
in order to really preserve your brain health. And I think, yes,
this is about digital wellness or revolution resolution, but digital
wellness is brain health. And my hypothesis is that based
(10:45):
on what we're seeing with kids, how their brains are
literally changing because of technology, if we don't do these things,
we're going to start seeing earlier onset dementia and Alzheimer's
because our brains are weakening over time.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
All right, well, that's a scary thought.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And we've all laughed at the people who are putting
on a map, you know, software in order to get
somewhere that clearly've been to a dozen times before. Is like,
did you not think about this like your brain is
not even even operating in a you know, an engaged form. Okay,
so number two was to take our notes by hand.
(11:21):
What's number three?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Number three is to ultimately use the digital world to
maximize your time in the real world. So what I do,
for example, is every Sunday, I love to look up
recipes on the Internet. One of the best ways to
waste your time is running around a grocery store for
three hours trying to find all the things. What I
do is I come up with my theme for the week.
(11:45):
I take my recipes, I drop them into chat GBT
and say, pull out everything I'm going to need for
a party of two, and organize every recipe and item
I need by aisle to maximize my time.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
At the store.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
What that does is reduces the amount of time I
have to actually think about getting the materials and optimize
my time for the creative thinking.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Excellent, All right, what's the next one?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So the next one is swap email for snail mail.
One of the best ways that you can actually rewire
your brain is through gratitude. I always have a box
of stationary with me, and it's very easy to write
an email or a text but when you actually show
up to a meeting or you send a letter in
the mail, it shows that you cared, and you cared
(12:30):
enough to stop, drop and write instead of just throwing
in a prompt to open AI. And that's what goes
from a digital transaction into a human transformation and relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah. I think a lot of young people these days
don't even know how you address and stamp an envelope.
I had a conversation with one of my kids about
the purchasing of stamps.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It had never come up before.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I mean, if they're not being taught cursive in school,
how would they know how to put a stamp on
a letter.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
It's true, it's true. It's not something we think about.
But a great tip for people here too.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Carry cards and your pursor backpack and take a few
minutes if you've got some downtime to do it, and
then you've got a fifth one as well.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, brick your phone. I have a brick.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
It's an incredible tool. I'm sure you've been seeing it
all over the internet. What I love about it is
that it's actually the physical act of tapping your phone
and tapping you out of the digital world.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I spend all.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Of my weekends now completely social media free and the
spirit of handwritten notes. I've actually decided to master the
art of calligraphy, and that's something that I'm now spending
my weekends on and swapping my scrolling doing that. If
you think about it, if you're spending eight hours a
day online and on the weekends you're spending eight hours
(13:45):
a day, and they say it takes ten thousand hours
to master something, you should really just find an art
and go after it.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That is the best thing you can do for.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Your productivity, for your mental health, and it also gives
you something to focus on besides work.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, And with that, it's really a two step process then,
because you're saying first you make sure that the technology
is not necessarily an option, like it's not an easy
option for you. You can get around the brick if
you need to, but it's not an easy option. And
then you also have to think of what sort of analog,
fun whatever would fill your time otherwise I.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Always say swap screens with fun. So yes, and I
think when you're just getting on your digital wellness journey,
and the same way that when you're on a diet,
you want to make it harder. The access ice cream,
maybe you're not putting it in the freezer, and maybe
you're not buying the family size chips. Some people are
hiding them or putting them in their kids launch boxes
to take at school. You have to do the same
(14:43):
with tech. Delete the things that you know are bad
for you. That's the junk food of the digital world.
Bite size and focus on the positive consumption. I would
argue that your podcast is a phenomenal way to actively
consume technology and walk away with real skill sets that
are to take your life from good to great. Listening
to you versus mindlessly scrolling on TikTok and feeling hopeless
(15:07):
are both time spent in the digital world, but the
outcomes are drastically different. So we need to start thinking
about our inputs, how it makes us feel, and spend
more time in the active state of consumption, the apples
and the banana of the digital world, as opposed to
the passive, which might be the fast food.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And so someone listening to this might be like, well, Lars,
that sounds great. What do I do if the people
around me are still kind of on screens? Like, how
can I broach this with you know friends or family members, like, Hey,
I'd love to have you know, a screen free dinner
with you guys, or I'd love to hang out and
not be checking our phones for things.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Are there good ways to have that conversation?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
The conversation is one thing, The action is another. Get
a box, put it at your front door and say
we're screen free tonight. And if you really need to
call someone or text someone, you can get outside this room.
But I think it's a about containing spaces for socialization.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Lars may.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I am back talking with.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Lars may who is a leader in the digital wellness movement.
We've been comparing digital wellness resolutions to some of the
physical wellness resolutions we might set, like you know, making
it harder to do things that we don't want to do,
making it easier to do more of things that we
do wish to have in our lives. So, Lars, I'd
like to pivot a little bit more to your schedule.
You've been talking about having time off screens on weekends.
(16:40):
I'm wondering what a what a work day tends to
look like for you.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Well, I sleep from nine to five or four forty
five am. The first thing I do is wake up.
I like to put on gospel music. I immediately flip
the switch of multiple senses, one being sent, so I
always like incense. And I actually the first thirty minutes
of my day free writing, completely screen free. And what
(17:05):
that allows me to do is all of my creative processing.
And then what I actually do is make a bulleted
list of what are the three rocks that I actually
want to achieve today before I even get into technology,
because digital overload has a really great way of making
you think that one hundred things are important when usually
it's only three things that are going to move your
(17:27):
business forward. In my workday, I really try to implement
digital wellness into my team culture. So what that looks
like is one hundred and eight seconds of silence before
we start an internal meeting. It allows people to attune
and drop in. It's actually something that Bob Leary used
to do, and he would say that it's enough time
(17:48):
to make you feel uncomfortable but comfortable, and to also
recognize people that have gone into other realms. And I
know that silence can feel weird, but it's actually one
of the most powerful ways to create vulnerability and connection.
I incorporate walk and talk, so a lot of times
when people want to meet with me, if I'm not
looking at a screen, I say, sorry, I'm putting on
(18:09):
my headphones and I'm going to walk my pugs and
I hope that's okay with you, But you're going to
get the best of me if I'm fully present and
out in the world. I think that we don't talk
about that a lot as leaders, but we should be
asking for more screen free connection. And there's even some
research that shows when you're speaking in audio and you're
fully present there that you can actually get deeper and
(18:30):
you have better ideas. A lot of my day is
on Zoom when I'm not on the ground or meeting
with my team in person. So finding that healthy harmony
I think balance is honestly made up completely. It allows
me to still feel like I have enough cognitive fuel
for creativity. I typically stack my Zoom meetings in the
(18:52):
afternoon because the morning from about five am till noon
is my most productive and creative time. Try to optimize
my day for that output. At the end of every day,
I write one or two letters either to people I've
met with that day, investors, young people I've impacted, politicians,
(19:13):
and I mail them And it's one of the best
practices of gratitude to really seal my day literally and figuratively,
but also brings that tactile moment for processing instead of
just constantly going from screens into more screens into bed,
which I think was the vicious cycle that we're all
trying to break free from that the pandemic put us in.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well, speaking of which I know a lot of my
listeners are still doing a lot of their meetings on
Zoom or teams or other related programs.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Are there ways to make.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Those meetings feel more human and like we're connecting even
if we're not in the same place.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Oh? Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think that pets are one of the most powerful
human equalizers. And I did an incredible workshop with an
organization called Soul Pause with my team where we actually
all brought our pets and did mindfulness and loving manifestations
and meditations with them, and what it actually brought to
light was how distracted we are when we're with our animals,
(20:13):
which oftentimes means we're really distracted with ourselves and we're
not tuning into our own needs, and so I think
that finding ways where you can connect together, like bringing
in your animal or saying we're going to do a
family zoom.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Cum bring your kids.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And we want to meet them in the same way
that you would say, let's go to the park, allows
your coworkers to have more empathy for what's going on
beyond your small window. So that's something that we practice
a lot, and I think I always like to start
my meetings with also, what's your truth today? We get
onto these calls. You don't know that right before this,
(20:48):
my dogs were fighting over a bone and my husband
had to come in and pull them out, and you know,
I had to reground so that I could be fully
present here. And we don't have those in real life
emotional attunement and that connection, and it's important to have
those micro moments of connection in the digital world so
that we don't lose that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely. Well, that would be a different way to start
a zoom for sure. I'm gonna think about that.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Asking people what their truth is right now, get at
what they've just been doing. So Lars, you know that
I always ask people in these interviews, what is something
you've done recently to take a day from great to awesome.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Something that I've started doing recently is actually singing into
Suno in the morning and almost wrapping my feelings when
nobody's watching. And it sounds really silly, but it's actually
an incredible way to bring joy and to also just
let out all of your emotions and to let Sono
see on the other side what that song is. It's
(21:46):
almost like creating your own soundtrack to your life.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Well, I was wondering if you were singing with the
gospel music that you're playing when you first wake up
as part of your yeah, your morning routine. I'm curious,
why did you choose gospel music. I mean, that sounds amazing,
but it's not when I hear often.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I love this soulful connection in history. And one of
my favorite book songs is this Little Light of Mine,
the Sam Cook addiction. And I think the good to great,
quite frankly, for me, is always lighting a candle. It's
adding ritual to everything, a ritual to a meeting, a
ritual to a song. And I look up to Oprah Winfrey.
(22:26):
I listen to a lot of what she says and
how she lives her life, and I think there's something
that's so deeply special about gospel music that ignites you
and strikes a different chord and it helps me feel grounded,
quite frankly. And so Nina Simone is beautiful and you know,
someone that I wish I could have had dinner with
(22:47):
before she passed. But it's just the act of soul.
And I think in this world where we're all fighting
for attention and headspace and mind space, we have to
figure out how to preserve our souls that we can
do that heart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Work absolutely all right? Well, and what's something you are
looking forward to right now?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Man?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
So many things.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I think what I'm looking forward to is and the
nonprofit that I started, we've launched a fund in the
state of New York for teens to create screen free
fund social events across the state. And we're going to
be duplicating that model because there've been a lot of
rules nationally and statewide about AI and tech, and I'm
(23:33):
going to watch one hundred teens bring fear into fun
through screen free proms and dances. And to know that
we could take something that feels scary and to make
it joyful is really what the digital wellness revolution is all.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
About sounds excellent. Well, Lars, where can people find you
if they want to learn more?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
You can find me at Livnlike Lars, you can go
to half Thestory project dot com or paygingo dot com,
but find me in my DMS. I want to hear
how these rituals work for you and what you're swapping
your screens with for fun.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Please take her up on that for sure. Well, Lars,
thank you for joining us. Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode,
you can always reach me at Laura at Laura.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Vandercam dot com. And in the meantime, this is Laura.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
(24:53):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Advice they have for the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So today I am delighted to welcome Lars May to
Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Lars is a leader in the digital.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Wellness movement, something I know a lot of people here
are thinking about and about our relationship with technology.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So Lars, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Good morning, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm delighted to have you here. So why don't
you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
My name is Lars. I am one of the founders
of the Digital Wellness movement, and I believe in building
a life where we can find harmony with technology as
opposed to allowing technology to take control of our senses.
What inspired me to get involved in this space was
ten years ago after almost losing my life to technology
as a young person, and that led me to start
(01:07):
Half the Story, which is a nonprofit and a mission
to empower the next generation's relationship with technology and now Ginko,
a new business that aims at bringing parents closer to
their kids and using tech as a way to give
them signals about what's really going on beneath the surface
of screen time.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Absolutely well with screen time.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I mean, I know a lot of the headlines are
about things with you know, mental health, and I know
you've had a journey with that as well, But beyond
even that, I mean, on a fundamental level, I think
what gets at a lot of people about the screen
time issue is that it's a sheer volume of time, right,
Like that people are spending so much time engage with
their screens and it winds up being a significant chunk
(01:50):
of the day. I mean, I know you've done research
into this, like how much time are we talking here?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Well, the average teenager will spend thirty years of their
life behind a screen. Most of you that are listening
to this right now probably picked up your phone within
three minutes of waking up, and most people are picking
up their phone ninety six times a day. But what
we don't talk about is that screen time is just
the surface. Screens are really symptoms for what we're experiencing
(02:19):
or what our needs are that need to be met.
Oftentimes are reaching for screens because we're feeling anxious, or
we're bored, or we're feeling disconnected from our partners. So
I really think we need to flip the script on
screen time and really start thinking about digital wellness as
brain health and a larger movement, but really with actions
that help us get better at it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean I'm sure people think about it. Okay, Yeah,
past three minutes, I've probably picked up my phone. I
mean people are listening to this podcasts, probably on their phone,
so they may have forwarded through an ad or something
like that. But you know, I don't know that many people,
if they sat and thought about it, be like, yes,
I would love to spend thirty years of my life
on a phone, or yes, I would love to pick
up my phone ninety six time to day.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
I mean it's kind of unintentional, right, absolutely, It's then
our subconscious and what we have to do is retrain
our brain quite literally, think of this as a new
wellness so that we can preserve our cognition and memory.
Because the moment that we're in right now, the question
is not how much screen time do we have that's
been the issue of the last thirty years. Now the
(03:20):
question is is how is screens or technology at large,
with open AI now creating wearables, how is that going
to change the way that humans interact with themselves? But ultimately,
how do we preserve humanity the things that make us
us on a daily basis? And it sounds crazy, but
for many of us how we start our day can
(03:43):
be very human and those small practices can actually change
our outcomes and help us go from good to great
from an emotional baseline a social baseline. And that's why
I believe screen time is a symptom and that we
ultimately can't be thinking about all screen time is the
same but really more about like food and to be
really conscious about one are we creating online versus one
(04:06):
are we consuming in order to preserve our emotional baseline?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah? Well, I like that food analogy because I mean,
much as with food, there's a lot that is within
your control. You cannot give it up one hundred percent,
And in the modern world it's probably the same with screens, correct.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Absolutely, And so how would.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You define sort of digital wellness?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I mean, if we're looking for a way of thinking
about this, what is digital wellness.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Digital wellness is the ability to practice and cultivate a
positive relationship with technology that supports your life rather than
hurts it. So what that really is is small practices
which I think we'll get into in a minute, that
over time move big doors.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, let's go ahead and start with this.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I know you have some ideas if people are setting
kind of digital wellness resolutions, much as we might set
resolutions to eat more healthily or get to the gym
more often.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We talked through a few of this. What's one of
the first ones you'd recommend.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
The first one is to intentionally go AI free one
day a week. I think we talk a lot about
tech detoxes, which is great, but the reality is is
that every time we're using AI, we're not actively engaging
our brain, and so making that small shift one day
a week can be incredible for your cognition. The second
thing is actually taking handwritten notes during meetings. Research shows
(05:26):
us that ultimately handwriting will help you with memory and cognition,
and that when you leave a meeting, mostly in the
digital world now, that you'll actually have better recall and process.
So many of us already have AI note takers, and
I think it's easy to go into autopilot, but handwriting
actually slows us down.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I love that actually, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's not just having a record of the meeting, it's
the note taking process about getting it into your brain
where you can actually use it.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah, and we've lost that. I'm not sure if you
saw the article about middle schoolers trying to bring back
cursive in school, and we've seen stationary shops are booming now,
but humans are craving the need to communicate. Our ability
to emote and to connect with others is something that
defines us from technology. We have to know when to
(06:15):
swap screens with scripts, when to swap emails for snail mail.
And I ultimately believe from my own experience that to
go from good to great in a day, to really
feel like you're sitting and processing a tough interaction or
even a creative brainstorm, you have to go beyond the
screen and into the script or the notebook, which I
(06:37):
have a bunch of them on my desk. And that's
another tip I like to say, which is everyone's talking
about the analog bag, what about the analog desk? On
my desk, I have beads to make friendship bracelets that
I don't multitask in meetings.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
We need to.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Break the scroll cycle by having things to actually engage
us when we feel the need to multitask, which isn't
even really something that humans can do.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
All right, So we're going to take one quick ad
break and then we'll be back with more on digital
wellness from Lars may.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I am back.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Talking with Lars may who's a leader in the digital
wellness movement, and I love the idea that you just said.
You have friendship bracelet making kits on your desk. You're
holding it up. I wish our listeners could see that.
And you mentioned that's about not multitasking when you're doing
I mean, are you doing that to keep your hands
occupied while you're listening to things or just as a
total break.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm curious how you incorporate that.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Absolutely, I believe that in the world that we're living in,
if you're a CEO or you're on the other side
of the screen, I would bet that nine times out
of ten, the person you're meeting with is probably checking
their phone or their email during that meeting. You are
not getting undivided attention. And so for me, by having
a friendship bracelet or knitting, or even just a notebook
(07:57):
to jop down my notes is my commitment to undivided
an attention, and I oftentimes share at.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
The beginning of the meeting.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I want you to know I'm making a friendship bracelet
or I'm coloring my pug coloring book because I don't
want to be tempted to multitask and to pick up
my phone. And it's something that I think we've just
normalized multitasking, but it's actually not true. What you're doing
is switch tasking, and you're giving everything ten percent or
(08:24):
fifteen percent as opposed to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Because it's like you need that one little thing to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
People have a slight bit of nervous energy, and I
guess the friendship bracelet making is a way to capture that,
or maybe something like walking while you are having a meeting.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I've got my walking treadmill down here.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I wasn't going to do that for this, but really
getting out of our heads and into our bodies in
order to get into the present in the digital world.
And there's a new concept that I've been hanging my
hat on, which is really digital attunement, which is how
can we use digital technologies to convene and actually better
attune to our own needs and others to lead to
(09:01):
more human and better outcomes. And I believe that the
way that we're designing technology, but ultimately our lives needs
to be thinking about those nuances as opposed to just
checklists and how we're spending our time, but really adding
that intention, because the difference between a minute and a
moment is that intention.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, we've been going through some of these digital wellness resolutions.
I know we had go AI free one day a week.
Maybe just on a practical level, I mean, I guess
you have to be careful about what you're doing with
your browser, even if that because a lot of it's automatic.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Right, Well, what I really mean is that do not
go on claud or open AI.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For a day.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And what that forces you to do is actually write
every email, actually take handwritten notes from the meeting. Sometimes
what I'll do is I'll actually capture notes on my
notebook and I'll take photos and upload them to AI
to then translate them to the digital world, which I
think is a really phenomenal practice.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
When the world We'll started.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Using Google maps, and we moved on a map quest.
I think we all probably remember our parents printed that
out and it was like, we need to make a
guide for the road. You didn't have to think about
that anymore because you started going into autopilot. What happens
in the digital world is that when we go to
AI for every single answer, or to write every single email,
(10:21):
even personal emails or texts, our brain is going into autopilot.
So you have to make that choice to rev up
the engine that is your brain and strengthen that muscle
in order to really preserve your brain health. And I think, yes,
this is about digital wellness or revolution resolution, but digital
wellness is brain health. And my hypothesis is that based
(10:45):
on what we're seeing with kids, how their brains are
literally changing because of technology, if we don't do these things,
we're going to start seeing earlier onset dementia and Alzheimer's
because our brains are weakening over time.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
All right, well, that's a scary thought.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
And we've all laughed at the people who are putting
on a map, you know, software in order to get
somewhere that clearly've been to a dozen times before. Is like,
did you not think about this like your brain is
not even even operating in a you know, an engaged form. Okay,
so number two was to take our notes by hand.
(11:21):
What's number three?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Number three is to ultimately use the digital world to
maximize your time in the real world. So what I do,
for example, is every Sunday, I love to look up
recipes on the Internet. One of the best ways to
waste your time is running around a grocery store for
three hours trying to find all the things. What I
do is I come up with my theme for the week.
(11:45):
I take my recipes, I drop them into chat GBT
and say, pull out everything I'm going to need for
a party of two, and organize every recipe and item
I need by aisle to maximize my time.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
At the store.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
What that does is reduces the amount of time I
have to actually think about getting the materials and optimize
my time for the creative thinking.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Excellent, All right, what's the next one?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So the next one is swap email for snail mail.
One of the best ways that you can actually rewire
your brain is through gratitude. I always have a box
of stationary with me, and it's very easy to write
an email or a text but when you actually show
up to a meeting or you send a letter in
the mail, it shows that you cared, and you cared
(12:30):
enough to stop, drop and write instead of just throwing
in a prompt to open AI. And that's what goes
from a digital transaction into a human transformation and relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah. I think a lot of young people these days
don't even know how you address and stamp an envelope.
I had a conversation with one of my kids about
the purchasing of stamps.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It had never come up before.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
I mean, if they're not being taught cursive in school,
how would they know how to put a stamp on
a letter.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
It's true, it's true. It's not something we think about.
But a great tip for people here too.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Carry cards and your pursor backpack and take a few
minutes if you've got some downtime to do it, and
then you've got a fifth one as well.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, brick your phone. I have a brick.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
It's an incredible tool. I'm sure you've been seeing it
all over the internet. What I love about it is
that it's actually the physical act of tapping your phone
and tapping you out of the digital world.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I spend all.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Of my weekends now completely social media free and the
spirit of handwritten notes. I've actually decided to master the
art of calligraphy, and that's something that I'm now spending
my weekends on and swapping my scrolling doing that. If
you think about it, if you're spending eight hours a
day online and on the weekends you're spending eight hours
(13:45):
a day, and they say it takes ten thousand hours
to master something, you should really just find an art
and go after it.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That is the best thing you can do for.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Your productivity, for your mental health, and it also gives
you something to focus on besides work.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, And with that, it's really a two step process then,
because you're saying first you make sure that the technology
is not necessarily an option, like it's not an easy
option for you. You can get around the brick if
you need to, but it's not an easy option. And
then you also have to think of what sort of analog,
fun whatever would fill your time otherwise I.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Always say swap screens with fun. So yes, and I
think when you're just getting on your digital wellness journey,
and the same way that when you're on a diet,
you want to make it harder. The access ice cream,
maybe you're not putting it in the freezer, and maybe
you're not buying the family size chips. Some people are
hiding them or putting them in their kids launch boxes
to take at school. You have to do the same
(14:43):
with tech. Delete the things that you know are bad
for you. That's the junk food of the digital world.
Bite size and focus on the positive consumption. I would
argue that your podcast is a phenomenal way to actively
consume technology and walk away with real skill sets that
are to take your life from good to great. Listening
to you versus mindlessly scrolling on TikTok and feeling hopeless
(15:07):
are both time spent in the digital world, but the
outcomes are drastically different. So we need to start thinking
about our inputs, how it makes us feel, and spend
more time in the active state of consumption, the apples
and the banana of the digital world, as opposed to
the passive, which might be the fast food.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And so someone listening to this might be like, well, Lars,
that sounds great. What do I do if the people
around me are still kind of on screens? Like, how
can I broach this with you know friends or family members, like, Hey,
I'd love to have you know, a screen free dinner
with you guys, or I'd love to hang out and
not be checking our phones for things.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Are there good ways to have that conversation?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
The conversation is one thing, The action is another. Get
a box, put it at your front door and say
we're screen free tonight. And if you really need to
call someone or text someone, you can get outside this room.
But I think it's a about containing spaces for socialization.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Lars may.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Well.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I am back talking with.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Lars may who is a leader in the digital wellness movement.
We've been comparing digital wellness resolutions to some of the
physical wellness resolutions we might set, like you know, making
it harder to do things that we don't want to do,
making it easier to do more of things that we
do wish to have in our lives. So, Lars, I'd
like to pivot a little bit more to your schedule.
You've been talking about having time off screens on weekends.
(16:40):
I'm wondering what a what a work day tends to
look like for you.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Well, I sleep from nine to five or four forty
five am. The first thing I do is wake up.
I like to put on gospel music. I immediately flip
the switch of multiple senses, one being sent, so I
always like incense. And I actually the first thirty minutes
of my day free writing, completely screen free. And what
(17:05):
that allows me to do is all of my creative processing.
And then what I actually do is make a bulleted
list of what are the three rocks that I actually
want to achieve today before I even get into technology,
because digital overload has a really great way of making
you think that one hundred things are important when usually
it's only three things that are going to move your
(17:27):
business forward. In my workday, I really try to implement
digital wellness into my team culture. So what that looks
like is one hundred and eight seconds of silence before
we start an internal meeting. It allows people to attune
and drop in. It's actually something that Bob Leary used
to do, and he would say that it's enough time
(17:48):
to make you feel uncomfortable but comfortable, and to also
recognize people that have gone into other realms. And I
know that silence can feel weird, but it's actually one
of the most powerful ways to create vulnerability and connection.
I incorporate walk and talk, so a lot of times
when people want to meet with me, if I'm not
looking at a screen, I say, sorry, I'm putting on
(18:09):
my headphones and I'm going to walk my pugs and
I hope that's okay with you, But you're going to
get the best of me if I'm fully present and
out in the world. I think that we don't talk
about that a lot as leaders, but we should be
asking for more screen free connection. And there's even some
research that shows when you're speaking in audio and you're
fully present there that you can actually get deeper and
(18:30):
you have better ideas. A lot of my day is
on Zoom when I'm not on the ground or meeting
with my team in person. So finding that healthy harmony
I think balance is honestly made up completely. It allows
me to still feel like I have enough cognitive fuel
for creativity. I typically stack my Zoom meetings in the
(18:52):
afternoon because the morning from about five am till noon
is my most productive and creative time. Try to optimize
my day for that output. At the end of every day,
I write one or two letters either to people I've
met with that day, investors, young people I've impacted, politicians,
(19:13):
and I mail them And it's one of the best
practices of gratitude to really seal my day literally and figuratively,
but also brings that tactile moment for processing instead of
just constantly going from screens into more screens into bed,
which I think was the vicious cycle that we're all
trying to break free from that the pandemic put us in.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well, speaking of which I know a lot of my
listeners are still doing a lot of their meetings on
Zoom or teams or other related programs.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Are there ways to make.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Those meetings feel more human and like we're connecting even
if we're not in the same place.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Oh? Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think that pets are one of the most powerful
human equalizers. And I did an incredible workshop with an
organization called Soul Pause with my team where we actually
all brought our pets and did mindfulness and loving manifestations
and meditations with them, and what it actually brought to
light was how distracted we are when we're with our animals,
(20:13):
which oftentimes means we're really distracted with ourselves and we're
not tuning into our own needs, and so I think
that finding ways where you can connect together, like bringing
in your animal or saying we're going to do a
family zoom.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Cum bring your kids.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And we want to meet them in the same way
that you would say, let's go to the park, allows
your coworkers to have more empathy for what's going on
beyond your small window. So that's something that we practice
a lot, and I think I always like to start
my meetings with also, what's your truth today? We get
onto these calls. You don't know that right before this,
(20:48):
my dogs were fighting over a bone and my husband
had to come in and pull them out, and you know,
I had to reground so that I could be fully
present here. And we don't have those in real life
emotional attunement and that connection, and it's important to have
those micro moments of connection in the digital world so
that we don't lose that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely. Well, that would be a different way to start
a zoom for sure. I'm gonna think about that.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Asking people what their truth is right now, get at
what they've just been doing. So Lars, you know that
I always ask people in these interviews, what is something
you've done recently to take a day from great to awesome.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Something that I've started doing recently is actually singing into
Suno in the morning and almost wrapping my feelings when
nobody's watching. And it sounds really silly, but it's actually
an incredible way to bring joy and to also just
let out all of your emotions and to let Sono
see on the other side what that song is. It's
(21:46):
almost like creating your own soundtrack to your life.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Well, I was wondering if you were singing with the
gospel music that you're playing when you first wake up
as part of your yeah, your morning routine. I'm curious,
why did you choose gospel music. I mean, that sounds amazing,
but it's not when I hear often.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I love this soulful connection in history. And one of
my favorite book songs is this Little Light of Mine,
the Sam Cook addiction. And I think the good to great,
quite frankly, for me, is always lighting a candle. It's
adding ritual to everything, a ritual to a meeting, a
ritual to a song. And I look up to Oprah Winfrey.
(22:26):
I listen to a lot of what she says and
how she lives her life, and I think there's something
that's so deeply special about gospel music that ignites you
and strikes a different chord and it helps me feel grounded,
quite frankly. And so Nina Simone is beautiful and you know,
someone that I wish I could have had dinner with
(22:47):
before she passed. But it's just the act of soul.
And I think in this world where we're all fighting
for attention and headspace and mind space, we have to
figure out how to preserve our souls that we can
do that heart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Work absolutely all right? Well, and what's something you are
looking forward to right now?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Man?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
So many things.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I think what I'm looking forward to is and the
nonprofit that I started, we've launched a fund in the
state of New York for teens to create screen free
fund social events across the state. And we're going to
be duplicating that model because there've been a lot of
rules nationally and statewide about AI and tech, and I'm
(23:33):
going to watch one hundred teens bring fear into fun
through screen free proms and dances. And to know that
we could take something that feels scary and to make
it joyful is really what the digital wellness revolution is all.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
About sounds excellent. Well, Lars, where can people find you
if they want to learn more?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
You can find me at Livnlike Lars, you can go
to half Thestory project dot com or paygingo dot com,
but find me in my DMS. I want to hear
how these rituals work for you and what you're swapping
your screens with for fun.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Please take her up on that for sure. Well, Lars,
thank you for joining us. Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode,
you can always reach me at Laura at Laura.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Vandercam dot com. And in the meantime, this is Laura.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
(24:53):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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