April 22, 2026 • 27 mins
Lauren Smith Brody, founder of the Fifth Trimester movement, shares strategies for making work and life fit together
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
they have for the rest of us. So today I
am delighted to welcome Lauren Smith Brodie to Before Breakfast.
Lauren is the founder of the Fifth Trimester movement, also
(00:31):
the author of a book by that name. It's all
about helping parents navigate the transition back to work.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She's also had a.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Long career in the women's magazine world as well. Lauren,
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thanks for having me, Laura, so nice to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, So, why don't you tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
So, I am definitely a multi hyphen it as you said,
I came out of media, originally wrote a book looking
at the experiences of returning to paid work after maternity
leave for more than seven hundred moms that's called the
Fifth Trimester.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And then I turn that into a business, so I
help companies do a better job of supporting and retaining
those new moms, but also all moms, all dads, anybody
doing elder care, really, anyone across the five generations of
caregivers who are currently in the workforce and helping them,
also doing research to understand the economic value of supporting
those workers.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Absolutely, and you have a family yourself as well.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I do, indeed, Yes, In fact, I have one who
just walked in the door coming home early from school
with neurovirus.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh that's the worst friend.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Work, travel this week, and big family vacation at the
end of the week, and just cross your fingers for me. Yeah,
I have teenagers. So I have a fourteen year old
and a seventeen year old. They're in eighth grade and
eleventh grade, and we live in New York City. Also
have a husband, and I have an extremely needy rescue
dog who is lying on my bed looking at me
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Absolutely well, between that and the Nora virus, who knows
what's going to happen in the next twenty f I've
met us.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
She's got like a stomach issue, the dog like it's
you know, we're just all about the gas intestinal We're
going to.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Buckle up for that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So yeah, tell us a little bit about you know,
the fifth trimester and what you've found. Yeah, that like,
as people, what do people who do well with the
transition back to work. We'll start with people themselves and
then we'll move to organizations. But when people make that
transition back and do it successfully, what do they tend
to do differently?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I really actually I love the way that you ask
that question because what I've realized now, so it's almost
ten years since I did that original research looking at
people's return to paid work after leave, and the research
I've done since then is on sort of early and
mid year parenting and the support that you may have
at work or not have for that kind of caregiving identity.
(02:47):
And then I also did a white paper more recently
with a menopause care company called Midi Health looking at
what happens when workers have support for menopause at work,
and all of those things I realized as I was
trying to connect the dots are really about the subset
of people who have made it work, who had the
support to made it work, to make it work. There
are obviously incredibly important and accurate headlines about attrition of
(03:09):
women in the workforce, very negative headlines about the impact
of all of these sort of life transitions and caregiving
on women's hopes and ambitions and careers. I like to
look at what's possible. So with the fifth trimester, before
I knew that's what I was doing, I was looking
at specifically these women who had come back and maintained
their careers. And we know that about thirty percent thirty
to forty percent depending on which study you're looking at,
(03:31):
of new moms leave their jobs within about a year
of having that baby. And these were the ones who stayed,
or at least who stayed in their careers. And what
did they do to reframe and redefine ambition and success
in those moments to hopefully get out of some of
the things they were over delivering on in their job
previously so that they could then make room to keep
(03:52):
growing or just to tread water. Treading water needed to
be okay for a lot of people, to a lot
of them were really deliberate about asking for the help
they needed and for those who weren't able to a
lot of what I researched and looked into was how
do you convince people to be okay asking for the
help and support you need? And often that comes down
to understanding the business case for retaining them. So it
(04:13):
feels like obviously the moral and ethical case should be enough,
but very often in order to go into some of
those negotiations as new parents asking for things for the
first time, it's really helpful just to understand the numbers
behind the economy of supporting parents. And so that's what
I've done with a lot of my work since then.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Absolutely, So basically that people who do it well are
okay with asking for what they need.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is that what I'm understanding you to say.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, I guess it really boils down to something
that simple. It's also it's really it's being open to
sort of a new normal. It's understanding that although you
may be quite good at the job that you do,
you are a brand new at being a working parent,
and so you're going to need some grace in transition,
and really understanding that there is in fact a whole
additional fifth trimester. So in America, most parents are going
(05:05):
back to work usually at between like eight and twelve
weeks postpartum. There's no federally protected paid parental leave, and
so those who can are able to take and have
access to it are able to take twelve weeks of
unpaid FMLA, but looking at the research when you actually
understand where that came from, twelve weeks is totally arbitrary,
(05:25):
and what it takes to actually get new moms in
particular over the hurdle is you really want to have
six months of paid leave, which feels like pine the
sky for most workers in America. So what can you
do as a worker to bridge that gap? First of all,
not being so hard on yourself, understanding that if it
feels hard at eight weeks or twelve weeks, that that's
not because of anything you're doing wrong. It's just this
(05:48):
idea that we have normalized something that is abnormal compared
to the rest of the world. It was actually FMLA,
federally protected unpaid leave, was passed into law by Bill
Clinton in nineteen ninety three. I want to say, who
I might get there wrong? I think it's ninety three,
and it had been proposed for nine years prior to that.
And when it was originally proposed, it was supposed to
(06:08):
be six paid months, which I think a lot of
people don't realize. But even back then, we knew that
six months was most protective of mom's physical health, mom's
mental health, baby's physical health, datter partner's bond with the baby,
mom's ability to maintain her income, and her status at work,
all those things, and yet we ended up with the
sort of band aid placeholder that was supposed to be
(06:29):
improved upon that so far has not been except in
several states where it has been, except by private companies
where it has been. But then you have to have
a job at one of those companies. So anyway, there's
this whole I think that this is where the root
of mom guilt comes from, working mom guilt, in particular
that you know, if you go back and it feels hard,
there must be something wrong with you. No, not at all.
So instead the real advice is to link arms with
(06:51):
others who have similar needs and to call out and
see the business case behind calling out the needs you have,
because if you help your employer help you, you're ultimately
creating a better culture and a more profitable company. So
it's really that reframe and then how you apply that,
like you can apply that in you know, like the
ways that you ask for flexibility in your day. And
(07:12):
I have sort of whole negotiation tactics around that in
how you how you organize your mornings, how you organize
your childcare, how you sort of orient your feelings about
that childcare, like how you make child care decisions in
a way that ultimately helps you feel good, which then
comes back to your child. Anyway, all the research had
been sort of previously focused very much on what's good
(07:33):
for baby. I like to look at what's good for mom,
because when you look at what's good for mom, ultimately
that's good for baby too.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, well, let's let's talk about that negotiation.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Let's say that you would like a slightly more flexible
schedule when you when you come back.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What are how how would you propose doing that?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So the first step is a pre step, which is
really it's convincing yourself. And this is what I spend
if I like get on a screen or stand on
a stage and talk to an audience, you know, for
an hour. So much of what I'm doing and sharing
all of these data points and research and the numbers
is to help fill up your pockets, right, Like pretend
you have on cargo pants, Like fill up your pockets
with everything you need so that you feel like I
(08:12):
have I can go into these these negotiations, feeling really
really sturdy in what I'm asking for, knowing that it's
not just for me, you know, as a as a
needy person myself, for my little family, but it's something
that is ultimately better for my employer. It makes me
you know that you can look at kind of how
your employer compares to other employers in the area or
(08:34):
other employers in your field, and look at you can
either make the case that they need to be doing
more because others are doing more so to keep up,
or you can make the case that actually, like they're
doing the most and they need to maintain that in
order to maintain their sort of their lead of retaining
retaining new moms. So convince yourself and then you want
to have a really firm sense. This is so basic,
(08:55):
but you just want to know what your job description
is you and not believe how many people don't actually
like can't stop and think, like, what is what are
the five things that are on my job description? And
I guarantee you you're doing twenty five hundred things because
so many of us like outgrow what we're doing and
we're really comfortable with the old stuff and we add
the new things and we get promoted and we take
the new stuff on and we don't ever get rid
(09:16):
of the old. And that's how you find the time
that you ultimately are going to need to be able
to have the white space in your day to keep growing,
to keep feeling like you can breathe, to have time
for networking and connecting and business development and all the
things that sort of keep your career moving on that
upward track. So research outside, then research inside the company
(09:37):
what policies are already available that you may not be using.
Then go in with a sense of what your job
description is and propose a plan, but also have a
plan being a plan see that fulfill that job description.
Then you can also propose, this is sort of the
last step to try it, just propose a trial period
because particularly if you're a new mom, but really in
kind of many stages of caregiving, your needs are going
(09:59):
to change within a month, within two months, and so
you want to have this sort of a continuum of conversations,
not just a one and done. And this way you
end up actually sort of showing the service you're providing,
like they're giving you something you need, but you are
you're the test case you're helping them see what works
what doesn't work, and communicating in a sort of naturally
open fashion that just buys people's trust.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then I'll be back with more from Laurence
Smith Brody. Well, I am back talking with Laurence Smith
Brody of the fifth trimester and talking about how people
can successfully transition back.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
To work after paid leave.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You mentioned something interesting there of sort of looking at
exactly what your job description is and getting sort of
back to the core of your job description as a
way to free up white space in your day, and
not just white space for emergencies, but white space for
growing and trying new things.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Wonder if you could elaborate on that a little bit
and why that's important.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
This is like, I have a feeling you relate to this.
But so often we write about the things that we
need ourselves, and I think it was like how many
days in a row that I took a shower and
then immediately ran out of the shower and dripping wet,
wrote down the idea that I'd had, like the to
do list thing that hadn't made it onto my list,
and I realized if you are doing all of your
like good thinking in the shower, like you need to
(11:26):
have some space on your calendar for shower time. That's
actually just like you at your desk or computer or
couch or wherever you do your work. And so yeah,
you need to be able to build that time in.
It also communicates, sort of counterintuitively, when you aren't the
person answering the emails late late at night, if you
can schedule send for the next day, it communicates the
(11:47):
sense of power and control that you have over your
life and schedule that then you sort of boom brains
back to you. You feel it, but you also project it,
and people only treat you as well as you treat yourself.
So if you can save some of that space, not
only do you have the space, but you look like
someone who like has their crap together enough to be
able to have time to make a connection. That's lovely
(12:08):
to be able to, you know, make time to go
have a coffee or to post something on LinkedIn. How
many times do we see somebody post something on LinkedIn
and you think, oh my gosh, how did it? I
never like, it's the thing I just did. The last
thing on my list. Well, they must have to do
something right if it's something that made it on jitter
list and they actually did it that day, So be
that person.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, try to avoid the hot mess vision of the life,
all right.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And I say this as.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
A person who's like made a second career out of
vulnerability and like being a little bit of a mess
and comfortable with that because we can't fix things. We
can't fix challenges we can't see, and so like, yes,
have a spit up on your sweater and tell people
that's what it is. Or you know, if you're exhausted
and stumbling over your words, go ahead and say I
didn't sleep last night, Because what that says is not
(12:50):
I'm weak and I didn't sleep last night, But like
I have a whole life beyond here, and I still
showed up. I'm still here because this is still important too.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely, And I heard somebody recently having a discussion about
one of the ways you can kind of stay in
is to.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Consider being a good employee for a while.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, it's a great you know, top of the pile,
but like if you've been an A plus worker for
a while, it might be an a minus kind of
person for for a year or two as you're hanging
in there and knowing that it is, by the way,
is still an A, which is still an A and
is you know, from the retention perspective, probably better your
(13:33):
A minus is it's going to take a new hire
a long time to get up to that A minus, yes,
but kind of convincing yourself to be okay with that
for for a little.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
While, Yeah, I think that all. There's another aspect to that,
which is also that you know, it's a little bit
like if you heard the concept of the good enough mother.
This is like I think it's from the seventies maybe,
but it's It was a sociologist named with correct me
from Witcott Witcomb who looked at as you researched that
if you're too good of a mom, it's actually not
(14:05):
great for your kids. You want to be like you
want to be like a B plus a minus because
it teaches them independence, It teaches them how to do
things for themselves and how to advocate, and that life
is not perfect, and it's actually ultimately builds a sturdy
or stronger kid. So I think about that a lot,
and I think about it in the context of the
paid work that we do too, because yeah, like we
are sort of many of us, particularly you know, once
(14:26):
by the time you've like climbed the ladder enough to
get to where you want to achieve, it's like we're
so programmed to over deliver, we're programmed to want to succeed,
and you have to realize that actually part of your
job is to manage, and managing means letting go of
some things and letting other people learn how to do
them or teaching them how to do them. I mean,
it's just delegating. But actually, in the context of feeling
(14:47):
like you're delegating because you now have a family to
take care of, feels like your giving up. But the
truth is, even if you didn't have the kid, you
would be in that inflection point anyway where you have
to learn to start me and teaching other people to
do things, and so freeing up that time for yourself
ultimately is a power move.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And there's also something I've heard and people try, which
is that I know a lot of a plus employee
people as well have a tendency to want to ask
permission for everything, like to get my flexible program in
formal writing or that I'm officially doing an eighty percent
schedule as opposed to just like leaving twenty.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Percent and getting your job done.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And getting your job done, I'm curious what you think
about that.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that can be such
a good point because from an HR perspective, you know,
a lot of the people I work with are in
talent in HR. As soon as you have a policy,
you have to make people comply to the policy, as
opposed to if you just have people who find a
way of being grown ups and getting their job done
in a different time frame, different style, different location, that
can be okay. Where it gets tricky is that, you know,
(15:56):
we find that people are more able to be flexible
with themselves if they you know, if they're privileged in
some way. So you want to make sure that you
know you aren't, that you're not imbalanced, and who you
let do what you know. Essentially, that's why you want
to come back to the job description. You just want
to make sure that people are doing the jobs they're
hired to do. And if that's done, I mean, and
(16:16):
part of your job might be showing up for the
team meeting and mentoring and being around physically that could
be part of your job. But yeah, it's it's sometimes
the policies actually are more detrimental than not, which is
which is surprising.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, well that's that's kind of life.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
But we're going to take one more quick ad break
and then I'll be back with more from Laurence Smith Brodie. Well,
I am back talking with Laurence Smith Brodie of the
fifth trimester. So, Lauren, I'd like to pivot to you here, Yeah,
talk about how you work. Let's let's talk about your schedule.
(16:55):
Do you have any routines that you think make you
more productive? In particular more routine.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I do, So I think I have learned to work
with my brain, which is very much a brain that
is on from about ready three pm to eleven pm.
It's so bad for a parent because like that's when
my kids walk in the door and when I want
to be with them. So what I've learned to do
is to do sort of the low hanging fruit stuff first.
Actually to not be a eat the frog for breakfast person,
(17:22):
but I recommend that for others who neworks form. But
I will get up, get my kids out the door,
walk the dog, come back in. Still while I'm in
either my pajamas or my workout clothes. I will do
like the three emails that if I don't do them
that day will just haunt me the whole day and
sit over my head and be the thing I avoid.
So get those done quickly. They're not usually hard. They're
just like the thing that needs to get out in
(17:44):
order to move somebody else to the next step on something.
Then I will try to exercise. Oh no, wait, wait,
before that, I have a group chat with my mom,
my sister and my dad. I'm sure you hear this
a lot, and we do. We do wordle, and we
do connections, and I am like, the best thing that
I am at my entire life is connection. So I
feel like an immediate sense of like pride all day long,
no matter how the rest of it goes. Then I
(18:05):
do a little workout, and when I say little, I
mean super little. I do like a peloton fifteen minute
or twenty minute like weightlifting thing, and I feel really good.
And then then I start my meetings. So sometimes I
will have clients and who I'll meet with as early
as you know, eight or nine. AM happy to do that.
But a great day is when where I start like
actual on screen meetings or on phone meetings. At ten,
(18:29):
I usually eat a late lunch. Ah wait, there was
eating in there too. I have the same I make
myself the same smoothie every day again like a little bit,
because like if I get vitamins and protein at breakfast,
like then I kind of the rest of the day
is fine, and I try to do something social in
the day, whether it's just a quick phone call with
a friend or or actually like turning a meeting into
(18:50):
a walking meeting with with somebody who's I have a
lot of colleague friends. I'm very, very lucky to be
at a stage of life where like, first of all,
I work for myself and work from home. Secondly, like
so many people I work with I can that are friends,
and so many friends I've found ways to work with,
so I try to take advantage there and double dip
on that. There's always a load of laundry going. I
have a feeling it's the same at your house. And
(19:11):
then I really like to cook dinner every night. I
love the sort of book ending of my day and
the cooking part. Sometimes there's some work that happens afterwards,
but my kids come home and generally are doing their
homework while I'm wrapping up my meetings. I usually do
meetings until about six six thirty, sometimes seven, and then
we have a late dinner. My husband has a commune,
(19:31):
gets home around seven thirty or eight, and we sit
together every night like they're at an age now where
like anybody who doesn't have that in their life yet,
like you may get there one day and it's awesome.
So I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, well, when do you do that thinking the shower,
thinking that you said you were trying to push out
of the shower into other points of your life.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
When does that seem to happen?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's a good call out. So often that will happen
on whatever the social thing is. You know, I have
really really like sort of purposefully blurred the lines, and
so so I don't have friend conversations that don't also
include some of what I'm working on. And also I
forgot to say this, but a big part of what
I work on is my public policy work through a
nonprofit that I co founded called the Chamber of Mothers.
(20:12):
So all of that is like donated time, but it's
with colleagues, but they're also very much friends and so
there will be a lot of sharing of ideas and
just helping each other that happens then and so often
that will spark something that will either inspire me to
then like go put time on my calendar the next
day to follow through on something, or it will just
(20:34):
like it will happen in the meeting. It happened this morning.
We had an idea in a meeting that we just
ran with and now each of us sort of has
our own creative role that we're taking on it. And
that feels like that white space to.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Me, excellent.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, there are a couple of great ideas in there
that I just wanted to call out, like one having.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
This family group chat. Doing a game.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Together can be a fun way to start the day
and stay connected with people, but while doing something so
it's not just are what are you up to?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I don't know what are you up to?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And then working with friends that I know. Some people
do like to have separation between work and life, but
there's some wonderful upsides when you can arrange for it
to have a person who you would voluntarily spend time with.
It be someone that you are spending time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With while on the clock.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Exactly, Yes, so Laura, I ask all my guests, what
is something you've given us already?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Some?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But what are some What is something you've done recently
to take a day from great to awesome?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Actually? Have I have a really good example for this?
Maybe maybe not. I have a feeling you have a
lot of people who answer that question with Laura. I
took a walk, but like like I took the best
walk of my freaking life.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Okay, it's like a nap. There are some good naps
or some great naps.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Walk.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
There's some good walks about you know, amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
There's okay, there's some contacts that makes it make more sense.
So I head this is last week. My dad is
very ill and lives far My parents live far away
that I'm in New York there in Atlanta, so a
plane right away. But I've been trying to get home
every at least once a month for a couple of nights,
and I've had some I was on Capitol Hill the
week before that for my nonprofit. I have work travel
(22:06):
tomorrow for a fifth trimester. So I'm just I have
like seven weeks in a row of travel and I
don't want to give anything up of all the other
things I'm doing because I need the income from my
paid work, and my children are teenagers, and I'm having
this feeling of this like window is closing, like they
actually sometimes want to spend time with me, and I'm like, yes,
I'll drop everything to spend time. So all of that
is context to say Sunday night, Monday night, I was
(22:29):
in Atlanta caring for my dad, extremely heavy but really
really fulfilling conversations, like lots of I left the trip
with a draft of his obituary that he wants me
to work on with his best friend. So then that
meeting was scheduled like really heavy but important and so
simultaneously kind of I feel bad calling it heavy, like
(22:50):
like very very meaningful things. Get home to LaGuardia at
like five, get home to our apartment by six, immediately
get on the Q train with my son because we
have tickets on a Tuesday night, which is really unusual,
to go to a concert for a band that he
really likes in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Mood.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I haven't slept in three nights at this point. I mean,
I put my head on the pillow, but I didn't
sleep well. So we go to Brooklyn for the concert.
We get home from that at midnight. I wake up
the next morning and I am just emotionally and physically beyond.
And I'm at a point in life now where I
could just tell my kids, get your own breakfast. Kids,
I'm going to go back to bed, but I just
I wanted to see them. So I got up, did
(23:30):
the thing that I told you about earlier, take the
dog out. It's one of these like weirdly warm days.
And I was like, you know what, this is a
perfect walk day, except I have a really important quarterly
check in with one of my anchor clients, a law firm.
I like, in like an hour and fifteen minutes, I
had a meeting with my dad's best friend to like
actually discuss the points of what's going to be in
(23:52):
life memorial for him. And then I had a couple
clients in the afternoon. I just really have time, and
I was like, Okay, so what can I do. I'm
going to not shower and get dressed from my quarterly meeting.
I'm on a zoom. I can put on my eyebrows,
put on lipstick, put on a sweater. They would never know,
so I'm gonna do that. So I sort of immediately
(24:13):
made that call. Then I went for the walk and
I did it with my vest, my middle aged lady
waited vest, which felt really good. Weather's great. I didn't
wear sunglasses because years ago, as psychiatrist said to me,
like make sure the sunlight actually hits your eyeballs because
it helps your It's not just vitamin D. It's actually
serotonin or something. Don't put me I don't know which.
And so I'm doing all the things and then I'm
like feeling bad that I haven't actually really read everything
(24:35):
that I need to read about what is going on
in the Middle East right now. So I like put
on the daily for the last two days and I'm
doing that. I'm answering emails while I'm doing the walk.
It's not what you're supposed to do, right, it is
not zone out take a walk time. I like, somebody
asked for a favor in the middle of it. I
scheduled the favor on my calendar. As I'm on the walk,
and I'm thinking, you know what, this is the best
(24:55):
walk I've ever had because it's not what it's supposed
to be, and yet it's making you feel so so good.
And I've been talking a lot. I was preparing at
the time, sort of in my mind what I was
going to say on a webinar that I was booked
to do like two days later. And I have two ideas.
One is just resentment proof. I talk all the time
about how you should make decisions with your own lack
(25:15):
of resentment in mind, Like, you don't want to resent
your job, your your partner, your boss, your children. Worst
of all, you really don't want to resent yourself. So
how can you make a decision that like like sort
of forecasts feeling good about this? And then the idea
of being comfortable with your compromises. That walk was an
exercise and comfort with my compromises. I was compromising all
(25:36):
kinds of ways, and that I realized is the goal.
The goal is not perfection, The goal is not like
a balanced life. The goal is being comfortable with your compromises.
And I was like, look at me living the thing. Now.
I know what I'm going to say on Laura's podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Absolutely, I love it. I love it for sure. Well, Lauren,
where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Oh? So you can just email me. It's Lauren at
the fifth time spelled out, or I'm on LinkedIn as
Lauren Smith. Brodie Smith is my middle name, but I
use all the names and I'm on Instagram. The fifth
trimester is my account there and again it's the spelled
out version and come find me. I would love to
meet anybody. And if you want me to come to
your business and help them do a better job of
retaining you, just let me know.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
This sounds good?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All right, well, Lauren, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback
about this or any other episode, you can always reach
me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime,
this is Laura, Thanks for listening, and here's to making
the most of our time.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
More podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
take their days from great to awesome and any advice
they have for the rest of us. So today I
am delighted to welcome Lauren Smith Brodie to Before Breakfast.
Lauren is the founder of the Fifth Trimester movement, also
(00:31):
the author of a book by that name. It's all
about helping parents navigate the transition back to work.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She's also had a.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Long career in the women's magazine world as well. Lauren,
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thanks for having me, Laura, so nice to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, So, why don't you tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
So, I am definitely a multi hyphen it as you said,
I came out of media, originally wrote a book looking
at the experiences of returning to paid work after maternity
leave for more than seven hundred moms that's called the
Fifth Trimester.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And then I turn that into a business, so I
help companies do a better job of supporting and retaining
those new moms, but also all moms, all dads, anybody
doing elder care, really, anyone across the five generations of
caregivers who are currently in the workforce and helping them,
also doing research to understand the economic value of supporting
those workers.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Absolutely, and you have a family yourself as well.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I do, indeed, Yes, In fact, I have one who
just walked in the door coming home early from school
with neurovirus.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh that's the worst friend.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Work, travel this week, and big family vacation at the
end of the week, and just cross your fingers for me. Yeah,
I have teenagers. So I have a fourteen year old
and a seventeen year old. They're in eighth grade and
eleventh grade, and we live in New York City. Also
have a husband, and I have an extremely needy rescue
dog who is lying on my bed looking at me
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Absolutely well, between that and the Nora virus, who knows
what's going to happen in the next twenty f I've
met us.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
She's got like a stomach issue, the dog like it's
you know, we're just all about the gas intestinal We're
going to.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Buckle up for that.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So yeah, tell us a little bit about you know,
the fifth trimester and what you've found. Yeah, that like,
as people, what do people who do well with the
transition back to work. We'll start with people themselves and
then we'll move to organizations. But when people make that
transition back and do it successfully, what do they tend
to do differently?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I really actually I love the way that you ask
that question because what I've realized now, so it's almost
ten years since I did that original research looking at
people's return to paid work after leave, and the research
I've done since then is on sort of early and
mid year parenting and the support that you may have
at work or not have for that kind of caregiving identity.
(02:47):
And then I also did a white paper more recently
with a menopause care company called Midi Health looking at
what happens when workers have support for menopause at work,
and all of those things I realized as I was
trying to connect the dots are really about the subset
of people who have made it work, who had the
support to made it work, to make it work. There
are obviously incredibly important and accurate headlines about attrition of
(03:09):
women in the workforce, very negative headlines about the impact
of all of these sort of life transitions and caregiving
on women's hopes and ambitions and careers. I like to
look at what's possible. So with the fifth trimester, before
I knew that's what I was doing, I was looking
at specifically these women who had come back and maintained
their careers. And we know that about thirty percent thirty
to forty percent depending on which study you're looking at,
(03:31):
of new moms leave their jobs within about a year
of having that baby. And these were the ones who stayed,
or at least who stayed in their careers. And what
did they do to reframe and redefine ambition and success
in those moments to hopefully get out of some of
the things they were over delivering on in their job
previously so that they could then make room to keep
(03:52):
growing or just to tread water. Treading water needed to
be okay for a lot of people, to a lot
of them were really deliberate about asking for the help
they needed and for those who weren't able to a
lot of what I researched and looked into was how
do you convince people to be okay asking for the
help and support you need? And often that comes down
to understanding the business case for retaining them. So it
(04:13):
feels like obviously the moral and ethical case should be enough,
but very often in order to go into some of
those negotiations as new parents asking for things for the
first time, it's really helpful just to understand the numbers
behind the economy of supporting parents. And so that's what
I've done with a lot of my work since then.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Absolutely, So basically that people who do it well are
okay with asking for what they need.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is that what I'm understanding you to say.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, I guess it really boils down to something
that simple. It's also it's really it's being open to
sort of a new normal. It's understanding that although you
may be quite good at the job that you do,
you are a brand new at being a working parent,
and so you're going to need some grace in transition,
and really understanding that there is in fact a whole
additional fifth trimester. So in America, most parents are going
(05:05):
back to work usually at between like eight and twelve
weeks postpartum. There's no federally protected paid parental leave, and
so those who can are able to take and have
access to it are able to take twelve weeks of
unpaid FMLA, but looking at the research when you actually
understand where that came from, twelve weeks is totally arbitrary,
(05:25):
and what it takes to actually get new moms in
particular over the hurdle is you really want to have
six months of paid leave, which feels like pine the
sky for most workers in America. So what can you
do as a worker to bridge that gap? First of all,
not being so hard on yourself, understanding that if it
feels hard at eight weeks or twelve weeks, that that's
not because of anything you're doing wrong. It's just this
(05:48):
idea that we have normalized something that is abnormal compared
to the rest of the world. It was actually FMLA,
federally protected unpaid leave, was passed into law by Bill
Clinton in nineteen ninety three. I want to say, who
I might get there wrong? I think it's ninety three,
and it had been proposed for nine years prior to that.
And when it was originally proposed, it was supposed to
(06:08):
be six paid months, which I think a lot of
people don't realize. But even back then, we knew that
six months was most protective of mom's physical health, mom's
mental health, baby's physical health, datter partner's bond with the baby,
mom's ability to maintain her income, and her status at work,
all those things, and yet we ended up with the
sort of band aid placeholder that was supposed to be
(06:29):
improved upon that so far has not been except in
several states where it has been, except by private companies
where it has been. But then you have to have
a job at one of those companies. So anyway, there's
this whole I think that this is where the root
of mom guilt comes from, working mom guilt, in particular
that you know, if you go back and it feels hard,
there must be something wrong with you. No, not at all.
So instead the real advice is to link arms with
(06:51):
others who have similar needs and to call out and
see the business case behind calling out the needs you have,
because if you help your employer help you, you're ultimately
creating a better culture and a more profitable company. So
it's really that reframe and then how you apply that,
like you can apply that in you know, like the
ways that you ask for flexibility in your day. And
(07:12):
I have sort of whole negotiation tactics around that in
how you how you organize your mornings, how you organize
your childcare, how you sort of orient your feelings about
that childcare, like how you make child care decisions in
a way that ultimately helps you feel good, which then
comes back to your child. Anyway, all the research had
been sort of previously focused very much on what's good
(07:33):
for baby. I like to look at what's good for mom,
because when you look at what's good for mom, ultimately
that's good for baby too.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, well, let's let's talk about that negotiation.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Let's say that you would like a slightly more flexible
schedule when you when you come back.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What are how how would you propose doing that?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So the first step is a pre step, which is
really it's convincing yourself. And this is what I spend
if I like get on a screen or stand on
a stage and talk to an audience, you know, for
an hour. So much of what I'm doing and sharing
all of these data points and research and the numbers
is to help fill up your pockets, right, Like pretend
you have on cargo pants, Like fill up your pockets
with everything you need so that you feel like I
(08:12):
have I can go into these these negotiations, feeling really
really sturdy in what I'm asking for, knowing that it's
not just for me, you know, as a as a
needy person myself, for my little family, but it's something
that is ultimately better for my employer. It makes me
you know that you can look at kind of how
your employer compares to other employers in the area or
(08:34):
other employers in your field, and look at you can
either make the case that they need to be doing
more because others are doing more so to keep up,
or you can make the case that actually, like they're
doing the most and they need to maintain that in
order to maintain their sort of their lead of retaining
retaining new moms. So convince yourself and then you want
to have a really firm sense. This is so basic,
(08:55):
but you just want to know what your job description
is you and not believe how many people don't actually
like can't stop and think, like, what is what are
the five things that are on my job description? And
I guarantee you you're doing twenty five hundred things because
so many of us like outgrow what we're doing and
we're really comfortable with the old stuff and we add
the new things and we get promoted and we take
the new stuff on and we don't ever get rid
(09:16):
of the old. And that's how you find the time
that you ultimately are going to need to be able
to have the white space in your day to keep growing,
to keep feeling like you can breathe, to have time
for networking and connecting and business development and all the
things that sort of keep your career moving on that
upward track. So research outside, then research inside the company
(09:37):
what policies are already available that you may not be using.
Then go in with a sense of what your job
description is and propose a plan, but also have a
plan being a plan see that fulfill that job description.
Then you can also propose, this is sort of the
last step to try it, just propose a trial period
because particularly if you're a new mom, but really in
kind of many stages of caregiving, your needs are going
(09:59):
to change within a month, within two months, and so
you want to have this sort of a continuum of conversations,
not just a one and done. And this way you
end up actually sort of showing the service you're providing,
like they're giving you something you need, but you are
you're the test case you're helping them see what works
what doesn't work, and communicating in a sort of naturally
open fashion that just buys people's trust.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then I'll be back with more from Laurence
Smith Brody. Well, I am back talking with Laurence Smith
Brody of the fifth trimester and talking about how people
can successfully transition back.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
To work after paid leave.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You mentioned something interesting there of sort of looking at
exactly what your job description is and getting sort of
back to the core of your job description as a
way to free up white space in your day, and
not just white space for emergencies, but white space for
growing and trying new things.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Wonder if you could elaborate on that a little bit
and why that's important.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
This is like, I have a feeling you relate to this.
But so often we write about the things that we
need ourselves, and I think it was like how many
days in a row that I took a shower and
then immediately ran out of the shower and dripping wet,
wrote down the idea that I'd had, like the to
do list thing that hadn't made it onto my list,
and I realized if you are doing all of your
like good thinking in the shower, like you need to
(11:26):
have some space on your calendar for shower time. That's
actually just like you at your desk or computer or
couch or wherever you do your work. And so yeah,
you need to be able to build that time in.
It also communicates, sort of counterintuitively, when you aren't the
person answering the emails late late at night, if you
can schedule send for the next day, it communicates the
(11:47):
sense of power and control that you have over your
life and schedule that then you sort of boom brains
back to you. You feel it, but you also project it,
and people only treat you as well as you treat yourself.
So if you can save some of that space, not
only do you have the space, but you look like
someone who like has their crap together enough to be
able to have time to make a connection. That's lovely
(12:08):
to be able to, you know, make time to go
have a coffee or to post something on LinkedIn. How
many times do we see somebody post something on LinkedIn
and you think, oh my gosh, how did it? I
never like, it's the thing I just did. The last
thing on my list. Well, they must have to do
something right if it's something that made it on jitter
list and they actually did it that day, So be
that person.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, try to avoid the hot mess vision of the life,
all right.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And I say this as.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
A person who's like made a second career out of
vulnerability and like being a little bit of a mess
and comfortable with that because we can't fix things. We
can't fix challenges we can't see, and so like, yes,
have a spit up on your sweater and tell people
that's what it is. Or you know, if you're exhausted
and stumbling over your words, go ahead and say I
didn't sleep last night, Because what that says is not
(12:50):
I'm weak and I didn't sleep last night, But like
I have a whole life beyond here, and I still
showed up. I'm still here because this is still important too.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely, And I heard somebody recently having a discussion about
one of the ways you can kind of stay in
is to.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Consider being a good employee for a while.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, it's a great you know, top of the pile,
but like if you've been an A plus worker for
a while, it might be an a minus kind of
person for for a year or two as you're hanging
in there and knowing that it is, by the way,
is still an A, which is still an A and
is you know, from the retention perspective, probably better your
(13:33):
A minus is it's going to take a new hire
a long time to get up to that A minus, yes,
but kind of convincing yourself to be okay with that
for for a little.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
While, Yeah, I think that all. There's another aspect to that,
which is also that you know, it's a little bit
like if you heard the concept of the good enough mother.
This is like I think it's from the seventies maybe,
but it's It was a sociologist named with correct me
from Witcott Witcomb who looked at as you researched that
if you're too good of a mom, it's actually not
(14:05):
great for your kids. You want to be like you
want to be like a B plus a minus because
it teaches them independence, It teaches them how to do
things for themselves and how to advocate, and that life
is not perfect, and it's actually ultimately builds a sturdy
or stronger kid. So I think about that a lot,
and I think about it in the context of the
paid work that we do too, because yeah, like we
are sort of many of us, particularly you know, once
(14:26):
by the time you've like climbed the ladder enough to
get to where you want to achieve, it's like we're
so programmed to over deliver, we're programmed to want to succeed,
and you have to realize that actually part of your
job is to manage, and managing means letting go of
some things and letting other people learn how to do
them or teaching them how to do them. I mean,
it's just delegating. But actually, in the context of feeling
(14:47):
like you're delegating because you now have a family to
take care of, feels like your giving up. But the
truth is, even if you didn't have the kid, you
would be in that inflection point anyway where you have
to learn to start me and teaching other people to
do things, and so freeing up that time for yourself
ultimately is a power move.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And there's also something I've heard and people try, which
is that I know a lot of a plus employee
people as well have a tendency to want to ask
permission for everything, like to get my flexible program in
formal writing or that I'm officially doing an eighty percent
schedule as opposed to just like leaving twenty.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Percent and getting your job done.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And getting your job done, I'm curious what you think
about that.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that can be such
a good point because from an HR perspective, you know,
a lot of the people I work with are in
talent in HR. As soon as you have a policy,
you have to make people comply to the policy, as
opposed to if you just have people who find a
way of being grown ups and getting their job done
in a different time frame, different style, different location, that
can be okay. Where it gets tricky is that, you know,
(15:56):
we find that people are more able to be flexible
with themselves if they you know, if they're privileged in
some way. So you want to make sure that you
know you aren't, that you're not imbalanced, and who you
let do what you know. Essentially, that's why you want
to come back to the job description. You just want
to make sure that people are doing the jobs they're
hired to do. And if that's done, I mean, and
(16:16):
part of your job might be showing up for the
team meeting and mentoring and being around physically that could
be part of your job. But yeah, it's it's sometimes
the policies actually are more detrimental than not, which is
which is surprising.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, well that's that's kind of life.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
But we're going to take one more quick ad break
and then I'll be back with more from Laurence Smith Brodie. Well,
I am back talking with Laurence Smith Brodie of the
fifth trimester. So, Lauren, I'd like to pivot to you here, Yeah,
talk about how you work. Let's let's talk about your schedule.
(16:55):
Do you have any routines that you think make you
more productive? In particular more routine.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I do, So I think I have learned to work
with my brain, which is very much a brain that
is on from about ready three pm to eleven pm.
It's so bad for a parent because like that's when
my kids walk in the door and when I want
to be with them. So what I've learned to do
is to do sort of the low hanging fruit stuff first.
Actually to not be a eat the frog for breakfast person,
(17:22):
but I recommend that for others who neworks form. But
I will get up, get my kids out the door,
walk the dog, come back in. Still while I'm in
either my pajamas or my workout clothes. I will do
like the three emails that if I don't do them
that day will just haunt me the whole day and
sit over my head and be the thing I avoid.
So get those done quickly. They're not usually hard. They're
just like the thing that needs to get out in
(17:44):
order to move somebody else to the next step on something.
Then I will try to exercise. Oh no, wait, wait,
before that, I have a group chat with my mom,
my sister and my dad. I'm sure you hear this
a lot, and we do. We do wordle, and we
do connections, and I am like, the best thing that
I am at my entire life is connection. So I
feel like an immediate sense of like pride all day long,
no matter how the rest of it goes. Then I
(18:05):
do a little workout, and when I say little, I
mean super little. I do like a peloton fifteen minute
or twenty minute like weightlifting thing, and I feel really good.
And then then I start my meetings. So sometimes I
will have clients and who I'll meet with as early
as you know, eight or nine. AM happy to do that.
But a great day is when where I start like
actual on screen meetings or on phone meetings. At ten,
(18:29):
I usually eat a late lunch. Ah wait, there was
eating in there too. I have the same I make
myself the same smoothie every day again like a little bit,
because like if I get vitamins and protein at breakfast,
like then I kind of the rest of the day
is fine, and I try to do something social in
the day, whether it's just a quick phone call with
a friend or or actually like turning a meeting into
(18:50):
a walking meeting with with somebody who's I have a
lot of colleague friends. I'm very, very lucky to be
at a stage of life where like, first of all,
I work for myself and work from home. Secondly, like
so many people I work with I can that are friends,
and so many friends I've found ways to work with,
so I try to take advantage there and double dip
on that. There's always a load of laundry going. I
have a feeling it's the same at your house. And
(19:11):
then I really like to cook dinner every night. I
love the sort of book ending of my day and
the cooking part. Sometimes there's some work that happens afterwards,
but my kids come home and generally are doing their
homework while I'm wrapping up my meetings. I usually do
meetings until about six six thirty, sometimes seven, and then
we have a late dinner. My husband has a commune,
(19:31):
gets home around seven thirty or eight, and we sit
together every night like they're at an age now where
like anybody who doesn't have that in their life yet,
like you may get there one day and it's awesome.
So I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, well, when do you do that thinking the shower,
thinking that you said you were trying to push out
of the shower into other points of your life.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
When does that seem to happen?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's a good call out. So often that will happen
on whatever the social thing is. You know, I have
really really like sort of purposefully blurred the lines, and
so so I don't have friend conversations that don't also
include some of what I'm working on. And also I
forgot to say this, but a big part of what
I work on is my public policy work through a
nonprofit that I co founded called the Chamber of Mothers.
(20:12):
So all of that is like donated time, but it's
with colleagues, but they're also very much friends and so
there will be a lot of sharing of ideas and
just helping each other that happens then and so often
that will spark something that will either inspire me to
then like go put time on my calendar the next
day to follow through on something, or it will just
(20:34):
like it will happen in the meeting. It happened this morning.
We had an idea in a meeting that we just
ran with and now each of us sort of has
our own creative role that we're taking on it. And
that feels like that white space to.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Me, excellent.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, there are a couple of great ideas in there
that I just wanted to call out, like one having.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
This family group chat. Doing a game.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Together can be a fun way to start the day
and stay connected with people, but while doing something so
it's not just are what are you up to?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I don't know what are you up to?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And then working with friends that I know. Some people
do like to have separation between work and life, but
there's some wonderful upsides when you can arrange for it
to have a person who you would voluntarily spend time with.
It be someone that you are spending time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With while on the clock.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Exactly, Yes, so Laura, I ask all my guests, what
is something you've given us already?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Some?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But what are some What is something you've done recently
to take a day from great to awesome?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Actually? Have I have a really good example for this?
Maybe maybe not. I have a feeling you have a
lot of people who answer that question with Laura. I
took a walk, but like like I took the best
walk of my freaking life.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Okay, it's like a nap. There are some good naps
or some great naps.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Walk.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
There's some good walks about you know, amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
There's okay, there's some contacts that makes it make more sense.
So I head this is last week. My dad is
very ill and lives far My parents live far away
that I'm in New York there in Atlanta, so a
plane right away. But I've been trying to get home
every at least once a month for a couple of nights,
and I've had some I was on Capitol Hill the
week before that for my nonprofit. I have work travel
(22:06):
tomorrow for a fifth trimester. So I'm just I have
like seven weeks in a row of travel and I
don't want to give anything up of all the other
things I'm doing because I need the income from my
paid work, and my children are teenagers, and I'm having
this feeling of this like window is closing, like they
actually sometimes want to spend time with me, and I'm like, yes,
I'll drop everything to spend time. So all of that
is context to say Sunday night, Monday night, I was
(22:29):
in Atlanta caring for my dad, extremely heavy but really
really fulfilling conversations, like lots of I left the trip
with a draft of his obituary that he wants me
to work on with his best friend. So then that
meeting was scheduled like really heavy but important and so
simultaneously kind of I feel bad calling it heavy, like
(22:50):
like very very meaningful things. Get home to LaGuardia at
like five, get home to our apartment by six, immediately
get on the Q train with my son because we
have tickets on a Tuesday night, which is really unusual,
to go to a concert for a band that he
really likes in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Mood.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I haven't slept in three nights at this point. I mean,
I put my head on the pillow, but I didn't
sleep well. So we go to Brooklyn for the concert.
We get home from that at midnight. I wake up
the next morning and I am just emotionally and physically beyond.
And I'm at a point in life now where I
could just tell my kids, get your own breakfast. Kids,
I'm going to go back to bed, but I just
I wanted to see them. So I got up, did
(23:30):
the thing that I told you about earlier, take the
dog out. It's one of these like weirdly warm days.
And I was like, you know what, this is a
perfect walk day, except I have a really important quarterly
check in with one of my anchor clients, a law firm.
I like, in like an hour and fifteen minutes, I
had a meeting with my dad's best friend to like
actually discuss the points of what's going to be in
(23:52):
life memorial for him. And then I had a couple
clients in the afternoon. I just really have time, and
I was like, Okay, so what can I do. I'm
going to not shower and get dressed from my quarterly meeting.
I'm on a zoom. I can put on my eyebrows,
put on lipstick, put on a sweater. They would never know,
so I'm gonna do that. So I sort of immediately
(24:13):
made that call. Then I went for the walk and
I did it with my vest, my middle aged lady
waited vest, which felt really good. Weather's great. I didn't
wear sunglasses because years ago, as psychiatrist said to me,
like make sure the sunlight actually hits your eyeballs because
it helps your It's not just vitamin D. It's actually
serotonin or something. Don't put me I don't know which.
And so I'm doing all the things and then I'm
like feeling bad that I haven't actually really read everything
(24:35):
that I need to read about what is going on
in the Middle East right now. So I like put
on the daily for the last two days and I'm
doing that. I'm answering emails while I'm doing the walk.
It's not what you're supposed to do, right, it is
not zone out take a walk time. I like, somebody
asked for a favor in the middle of it. I
scheduled the favor on my calendar. As I'm on the walk,
and I'm thinking, you know what, this is the best
(24:55):
walk I've ever had because it's not what it's supposed
to be, and yet it's making you feel so so good.
And I've been talking a lot. I was preparing at
the time, sort of in my mind what I was
going to say on a webinar that I was booked
to do like two days later. And I have two ideas.
One is just resentment proof. I talk all the time
about how you should make decisions with your own lack
(25:15):
of resentment in mind, Like, you don't want to resent
your job, your your partner, your boss, your children. Worst
of all, you really don't want to resent yourself. So
how can you make a decision that like like sort
of forecasts feeling good about this? And then the idea
of being comfortable with your compromises. That walk was an
exercise and comfort with my compromises. I was compromising all
(25:36):
kinds of ways, and that I realized is the goal.
The goal is not perfection, The goal is not like
a balanced life. The goal is being comfortable with your compromises.
And I was like, look at me living the thing. Now.
I know what I'm going to say on Laura's podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Absolutely, I love it. I love it for sure. Well, Lauren,
where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Oh? So you can just email me. It's Lauren at
the fifth time spelled out, or I'm on LinkedIn as
Lauren Smith. Brodie Smith is my middle name, but I
use all the names and I'm on Instagram. The fifth
trimester is my account there and again it's the spelled
out version and come find me. I would love to
meet anybody. And if you want me to come to
your business and help them do a better job of
retaining you, just let me know.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
This sounds good?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All right, well, Lauren, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback
about this or any other episode, you can always reach
me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime,
this is Laura, Thanks for listening, and here's to making
the most of our time.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
More podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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