March 18, 2026 • 23 mins
ADHD expert and therapist Jenna Free shares how to be more calm and effective
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part
of the series where I interview fascinating people about how
they take their days from great to awesome and any advice.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
They have for the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So today I am delighted to welcome Jenna Free to
Before Breakfast. Jenna is a therapist, an expert on ADHD,
and is the author of the brand new book, The
Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Jenna, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, so excited to talk with you about this topic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Absolutely so. I'm a therapist. I was diagnosed with ADHD
at the age of thirty two while in grad school
to become a therapist. I have been working with clients
for about three years now, and in working with them,
learned about myself and found a strong connection that adhders
(01:06):
are almost always in fight or flight and that dysregulated
state is what causes a lot of our struggles, not
the DHD itself.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, so talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, I mean for SARTs.
Did you go like, oh, yeah, that explains a lot
when you heard that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Absolutely, And that's why I saw it sought it because
I was like, Mmmm, this can't be normal. I don't
think life is supposed to be this hard.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, what was it that was tripping tipping you off
that that might be the case.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
It was like for many women after I had two
kids in a year and a half and everything just
became too much for my coping mechanism. So I didn't
realize I was masking and coping and just keeping my
head above water. But then when you have so much
going on, it kind of shows those cracks that oh
I am not managing well and I'm overwhelmed by the
(01:58):
thought of sweeping the floor and changing a diaper. And
I don't think this is typical.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, well, because normally when people think of, you know,
attention deficit order disorder and things like that, they're picturing
a little boy who can't sit still in class. And
yet it manifests in lots of other ways. And I
hear from a lot of women in particular who are
high functioning that they aren't diagnosed until they're adults.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I mean, what's going on there? Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It's historically that's how we saw it, little boy running
around that was the hyperactive type. But there's also the
inattentive type, which is a bit more spaceiness, forgetfulness, easily overwhelmed,
kind of that internal struggle and hyperactivity not so much
the external. So of course, growing up that's not seen
as much. It's not as much of a bother in
the classroom, so people think you're doing just fine.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, but it turns out that there are ways to
treat this or at least know what you're working with
so that you can.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Live life in a more calm fashion.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So one of the things that I read in your
new book on ADHD regulation, you encourage people who are
living with ADHD to not talk about like, oh my
ADHD brain is making me do this, but to talk
about dysregulation.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
What is dysregulation?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Absolutely so, being a neurodivergent person living in a neurotypical world,
you're going to bump up to a lot of struggles,
a lot of differences. Feels a little bit like a
round peg in a square holes just what don't always
fit everywhere, and that will put your nervous system into
a protective state where I'm on the defense, I'm hyper vigilant,
(03:39):
making sure I'm doing the right thing, I'm not late,
I'm not forgetting stuff. And once we get tipped into
that state, you tend to get stuck in that state.
So I work with adults who don't know life other
than being in fight or flight or being dysregulated. So
that causes a lot of problems. Because being in fighter
flight is useful when you're imminent life threatening danger, right
(04:02):
when fight flight freeze and fawn is actually going to
save your life. If you are writing emails, have a
long to do list, trying to organize your day, not
as helpful. So that is what's actually creating so many
of the problems, not the neurodivergence itself.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because people believe they're in danger, at least their nervous
system believes they're in danger even though they actually aren't.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Absolutely, So it's perceiving the stress, the overwhelm, all of
that stuff that we've kind of it's like a flip
has been switched on my system perceived danger because we're
very primal being still even though it was Oh, my
teacher was mad at me. I got in trouble for
handing that thing in light, but we still perceive that
(04:45):
as a bear is chasing me. And so because it's
twenty twenty six and not everybody obviously, but most of
us people listening to this podcast are probably physically safe,
it causes a lot of problems because the blood flow
actually leaves the brain and goes to the limbs when
I'm trying to write emails, organize my day, prioritize I
(05:05):
need blood float to the brain. So we really our skills,
our executive functioning goes down when we're in that state
as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So one of the first things you need to do
then if you recognize this state or recognize this about yourself,
is to figure out how to calm yourself down. What
are some strategies that I suppose people even who are
not living with ADHD could use to calm ourselves down.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yes, being in fight or flight it can't affect anybody, right,
So it's not just for eight each year's it's just
very common with neurodivergent people. First thing would be rushing.
This is something that's not talked about as much, but
regardless of the reason you're doing it, rushing is going
to signal to your body that you are in danger.
I'm getting chased by a bear, I'm moving so quickly
(05:51):
or even thinking so quickly that there must be danger present.
So we really want to work on slowing down. So
if you're rushing to a meeting, we just want to walk.
If you're typing out an email at breakneck speed, slow
down and just do things at a pace that's a
little bit more calming. And that's a great first step.
What else could we do.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Let's go through a list of things that you would
recommend some people.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, there's kind of three elements to the ADHD regulation
method that I use with people. So first is that
physical piece. We want to tell the body we are safe,
and that's going to look like a deep breath, relaxing
your shoulders, slowing down, very simple. The second piece is
thought and belief regulation, which is much more complex. And
we have a lot of ways of thinking and a
(06:38):
lot of belief systems that are rooted that are sorry,
that stem from a nervous system that feels unsafe. So
thoughts like I'm behind, I need to catch up, there's
not enough time in the day, I should have done
that yesterday. All of those That kind of thinking keeps
us in a disregulated state, which is going to make
(06:59):
us ineffect forget full, unorganized. So another thing is really
being aware of your thinking. Are my thoughts and beliefs
keeping me anxiety in anxiety? Are they keeping me rushing frazzled?
And we want to work on that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So how are some ways I could rewrite those scripts?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Because I know a lot of people listening to this
are in fact telling themselves there's not enough.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Time in the day.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean, we're all busy these days, so what could
I do to stop telling myself that story?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
A big part of regulation work is aligning with reality,
which just me to stop fighting with reality. So if
you're thinking there's not enough time in the day, just
think of that fight like you are going to lose
that fight every time there is the time there is?
Now what can I do with it? So it's just
observing where am I fighting with reality? I should have
(07:53):
done that yesterday, okay, but you didn't, So what's the reality?
The reality is I didn't do that? Now what? And
I love the now whatk So it gives us just
that forward momentum. So observing where are my thoughts and beliefs.
Fighting with reality or fighting with what is? That is
a great place to work on love that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and
I'll be back with more from Jenniffree.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Back talking with Jennifree, who is a therapist, an expert
on ADHD, and the author of the brand new book
The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So I love one
of your sayings that if you have to rush, there
isn't time. I'm curious how you see this manifesting itself
so often with people. I one thing that comes to mind,
people always telling me, well, I could empty the dishwasher
(08:47):
before I walk out the door.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It's like, well maybe you can't.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Absolutely that's exactly the right example. So, especially in each years,
but anybody who struggles with being on time, we will
blame you know, oh I'm too easily distry, or I
have time blindness. That's a big thing for eight each year's.
But often we've because go back to our beliefs there's
not enough time in the day, so I have to
squeeze everything into every possible minute I can. So I'll
(09:13):
just quickly unload the dishwasher. Well, you you should have
left five minutes ago. Why if we have to quickly
rush to do it, it's probably a sign that there's no time.
Let's just put it down, we can do it later,
and let's leave now. It really will retrain your system
to just live in the reality that there is the
time there is. We're valuing being on time more than
(09:37):
we are rushing to quickly get that thing done, because
every time we rush to do a task, we are
also signaling to our body that we're not safe. We've
got to get into fight or flight. Blood flow is
gonna leave your brain, it's gonna go to your limbs.
You're not gonna be as clear thinking, You're not gonna
be able to prioritize plan. So it really is a
kind of philosophy to live by because oh, slow and
(09:59):
steady wins like that is a saying for a reason.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, what is time blindness? Maybe you can explain that
to us.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So I don't know if a lot of ADHD's symptoms
terminology is just summing up what we see as a
struggle with ADHD. And in my work, I am proposing
that a lot of what we've assumed is ADHD is
actually a dysregulated brain that's also neurodivergent, but it is
(10:29):
a temporal distortion, meaning a distortion of time. Well, that
happens when we're in fight or flight as well, So
it's not exclusive to the neurodivergent brain, but it can
be you know, losing track of time really easily, thinking
things will take away longer than they do, thinking things
will take away less time than they do, and just
feeling like you can't get a grasp on organizing your
(10:50):
time well because you can't perceive it accurately.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Are there things you can do to become a more
accurate perceiver of time?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Regulate, which is that slow down, retraining our system that
it is not in danger, aligning with reality and not
fighting with reality as much. Of course, there's many more
tools we can get into, but all of this leads
to a system that is calm, cool, collected. It's going
to think more clearly, it's going to have less distortions,
both cognitive distortions temporal distortions where we don't see things accurately.
(11:24):
That will all dissipate naturally with regulation.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So one of the things I always suggest to people
when they're trying to figure out time is keeping track
of it.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I'm curious if you think that that might.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Be helpful to people I'm talking to who are neurodivergent,
or do you think they're not going to like that
at all.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It can be tricky because that is what's taught to
each year is the external tools, the timers, the calendars,
the planners, the tracking, the systems strategies. But what I
have found is a system in fight or flight. Give
that system tools is like an umbrella and a hurricane.
There is no amount of external support that's going to
(12:04):
make up for a system in fight or flight. So
it's always working on that internal based stuff first. Then
we can go, Okay, where are my missing gaps and
what tools and strategies can I use. I have a
calendar that I use religiously that is so supportive of me,
no matter how regulated I am. I do have a
wristwatch that I wear it's just the time, so that
(12:26):
I'm more in tune with what time it is and
have it accessible, but overly tracking. Being hyper vigilant about
these things can also tip into dysregulation. Because I also
have many clients who are chronically early because they are
so anxious about being late, that they'll waste forty five
minutes going early and sitting and waiting. Well, that it's
(12:47):
not really a good solution either, So it's finding that balance.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So how do you use your calendar to support yourself?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
If you think that you might have some time blindness
on occasion, how does your calendar support you and moving
beyond that?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Absolutely so being a regulated person as absolutely supported in
me being able to use it every single day, and
I keep my old ones because I do have these
paper calendar. I use a paper calendar. It's more grounding,
it's more physical. I find that really helpful for regulation.
But I'm on my fourth book of it. So this
is my fourth year every single day using my calendar,
(13:22):
and it's simply writing down what I'm going to do.
But because I'm regulated, I'm mindful enough to remember to
look at it. I do have it open in front
of me on my desk at all times, and I'm
not caught up in the perfection guilt and shame that
we can be when we're disregulated and try to use tools.
I'm flexible about it. If I don't get something done,
(13:43):
I'm completely fine crossing it off and moving it along.
So it's that flexibility I think that allows for a
calendar to work for somebody.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Now, you mentioned in your book this sort of analogy
of viewing big projects as either a wall of bricks
in front of you or more of.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
A brick path. Can you talk a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
About that analogy and how that might be helpful for
people who even are neurotypical and view big projects as
almost overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Absolutely so, if you have overwhelmed, you're not present, because
you cannot be overwhelmed if you're present. So if we
are thinking about a project, oh, I want to start
that work project, but I'm going to have to email
those five people. I have to do that five hours
of research. I'm also going to have to write this paper.
It's like all the bricks are stacking up in front
of us, when the reality is I can only do
(14:32):
one thing at a time. So there's the awareness of ah,
I'm seeing the brick wall, which is a cognitive distortion. Right,
So that's a skewed perspective of reality. Because the reality
is time and space are linear. I can only do
one thing at a time. So we can practice laying
that down in our mind's eye. Okay, if this was
(14:52):
a brick path. What is one brick I could step on?
Not what is the one right, perfect first brick? What
is a brick? Kick a step on? That mightbe A'll
email Joe and ask him that question. I have right,
it's just getting into some momentum and movement and stepping
on the bricks one by one instead of trying to
smash the wall down all at once.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We're going to take a quick ad break and I'll
be back with more from Jennifree.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Back talking with Jennifree, therapist and ADHD expert, author of
the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So, Jenna,
I'd love to move more to what your own schedule
looks like. People love to hear about people's schedules with
this show, do you what does a day look like
for you?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Well, I am like a broken record. But it's I
prioritize regulation, so I don't want to do too much,
I don't want to do too little. It's finding that
sweet spot. The definition of being regulated is the rate
or speed at which technically a machine functions best. So
having nothing on my calendar is you know, it's too open,
(16:09):
there's too much flexibility. You kind of don't use your
time well. Also, stuffing too much in there makes it overwhelming,
puts you in a paralysis, puts you into a state
where you're not very efficient and effective. So I really
have gotten good at knowing what my capacity is, knowing
what's too much for me, and having that flexibility to
(16:30):
move things around. I don't have any specifics that's rigid
every day. That flexibility is key for me to stay regulated.
But I do find when I when I'm not rushing,
when i have a great relationship with reality and I'm
not fighting with it, the days just really flow well.
And my sound for regulation is do do do do.
(16:53):
That's what I want my feeling to be every day
is I'm chugging along. I'm getting things done, but I'm
not in a panic, not frantic. I'm not trying to
squeeze fifteen things in that are unrealistic. And I'm also
not stuck and stagnant doing nothing. So that's a bit
of a less tangible example, but those are the key
points that have really helped me with functioning well in
(17:15):
scheduling well.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But of course, I mean you have children and so
they probably occasionally mess up that schedule. That sense of
you know, trying to have the right amount in any
given day, or you know they tend to throw curveballs
into a schedule.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I'm curious how.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know you deal with that, because I think that
the chaos of having young kids is again one of
those things that leads people to understand that they are
neurotypical and how they're reacting to it. So I'm curious
how you are dealing with raising children and needing that regulation.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Absolutely so, yes, I have six and seven year old boys.
We are in the thick of it. And I when
I was more dysregulated, I had so much anger and rigidity.
If they woke up sick, had to stay home from daycare,
I just won't forget me, like punching the matress, going ah,
how am I so frustrated by this change in plans?
(18:10):
And there's the rigidity that also tips me off when
someone is neurodivergent and in a fight or flight. Now,
in a more regulated state, I plan as best I can,
but again that alignment with reality. The reality is he's homesick. Okay,
what am I gonna do? Right? How am I gonna
work with the reality I have? And instead of spending
so much of my time and energy fighting with he
(18:32):
should If he hadn't been home, I would have gotten
this done. I would well, here we are, how do
I deal with it? So it's so much easier to
roll with the punches, except reality adjusts things accordingly without it.
Derael like everything. Well.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Do you have any routines though that you think make
you more productive? I mean, even if days are different,
are there any sort of routines you make sure to
follow as much as you can?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I do just get out of bed when my alarm goes.
That is something I could not do when I was disregulated,
and I know for eight each year it's very hard
to wake up in the morning. But when you are
more present and less stuck in your thinking, I do
find I just don't even think about it. I just
stand up and mows you through my day, So that
(19:18):
really helps I do. Something that I kind of connected
is if I'm already going out, it's so much easier
for me to go to the gym. So I'm lucky
enough to have a flexible schedule where after I drop
my kids off from school, if I go straight to
the gym, I'm going to go. If I come home first,
I ain't going. So it's some little things I've learned
(19:38):
about myself that I try to honor as much as possible,
So that has helped. But everyone's gonna be so different
in what works for them.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah. Yeah, although I'm sure exercise does help in general,
right getting physical activity is that a good way to
regulate oneself?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Absolutely ideally, And if you are in fight or flight,
you're in survival mode. You are just keeping your head
above water. I do not ask anyone who is drowning
to go work out as the first step. So it
is a beautiful thing if you can do it, but
that is not something we have to do right away
in order to regulate excellent.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So, Jenna, I always ask my guests, what is something
you have done recently to take a day from great
to awesome?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I think the biggest thing that makes a lot of
my days awesome is really connecting with my belief that
the day is meant to be enjoyed, not just to
check off the to do list. So I really try
to enjoy the process of the day. Doesn't mean I'm
playing hooky at work, doesn't mean I'm going to Disneyland
every day. But even in you know, writing emails. Can
(20:46):
I sit in somewhere comfortable. Can I do it at
a pace that's not painful? Can I make this as
pleasurable as possible, Because especially if you're neurodivergent and or
just regulated, feeling in a rush, always like you're behind
and each catch up, we really can live our lives
in a way where we're just trying to get it
over with, just trying to get things done so I
can move on to the next thing soon enough. You've
(21:09):
looked back in the past month has flown by, and
you haven't soaked up any of it. So I think
it's a big shift if you people can even bring
that up to the same priority level. Okay, yes, I
want to get things done. I want to work my
schedule and do it well. I also want to enjoy
the experience, because for most of us we are forgetting
that part entirely.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, well, what are you looking forward to right now?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Speaking of enjoying things.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I am looking forward to. I am a big traveler.
I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks with some friends,
and I do love a change in schedule. That being said,
love my routine, love a schedule, and oh my gosh,
to have a break from it can be such a reset.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, well that should be a lot of fun. I
hear you like all sorts of random hobbies too. That
was one of the things I saw on your bio.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yes, very eighth. She think as well. Uh, I've been sewing, tennis, acting, yoga.
They kind of come and go. But I do love
a love a good hobby.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Follow your fancy at the moment, for sure. So Jenna,
where can people find you?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
You can find me at ADHD with Jennifree dot com,
slash groups that's all about my work, and on social
media at ADHD with Jennifree.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Well, Jenna, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Thank you to everyone for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
If you have feedback on this or any.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Other episode, you can always reach me at Laura at
Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura,
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia. Please visit the iHeartRadio app,
(23:09):
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part
of the series where I interview fascinating people about how
they take their days from great to awesome and any advice.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
They have for the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So today I am delighted to welcome Jenna Free to
Before Breakfast. Jenna is a therapist, an expert on ADHD,
and is the author of the brand new book, The
Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Jenna, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, so excited to talk with you about this topic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Absolutely so. I'm a therapist. I was diagnosed with ADHD
at the age of thirty two while in grad school
to become a therapist. I have been working with clients
for about three years now, and in working with them,
learned about myself and found a strong connection that adhders
(01:06):
are almost always in fight or flight and that dysregulated
state is what causes a lot of our struggles, not
the DHD itself.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, so talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, I mean for SARTs.
Did you go like, oh, yeah, that explains a lot
when you heard that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Absolutely, And that's why I saw it sought it because
I was like, Mmmm, this can't be normal. I don't
think life is supposed to be this hard.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, what was it that was tripping tipping you off
that that might be the case.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
It was like for many women after I had two
kids in a year and a half and everything just
became too much for my coping mechanism. So I didn't
realize I was masking and coping and just keeping my
head above water. But then when you have so much
going on, it kind of shows those cracks that oh
I am not managing well and I'm overwhelmed by the
(01:58):
thought of sweeping the floor and changing a diaper. And
I don't think this is typical.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, well, because normally when people think of, you know,
attention deficit order disorder and things like that, they're picturing
a little boy who can't sit still in class. And
yet it manifests in lots of other ways. And I
hear from a lot of women in particular who are
high functioning that they aren't diagnosed until they're adults.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I mean, what's going on there? Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
It's historically that's how we saw it, little boy running
around that was the hyperactive type. But there's also the
inattentive type, which is a bit more spaceiness, forgetfulness, easily overwhelmed,
kind of that internal struggle and hyperactivity not so much
the external. So of course, growing up that's not seen
as much. It's not as much of a bother in
the classroom, so people think you're doing just fine.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, but it turns out that there are ways to
treat this or at least know what you're working with
so that you can.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Live life in a more calm fashion.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So one of the things that I read in your
new book on ADHD regulation, you encourage people who are
living with ADHD to not talk about like, oh my
ADHD brain is making me do this, but to talk
about dysregulation.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
What is dysregulation?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Absolutely so, being a neurodivergent person living in a neurotypical world,
you're going to bump up to a lot of struggles,
a lot of differences. Feels a little bit like a
round peg in a square holes just what don't always
fit everywhere, and that will put your nervous system into
a protective state where I'm on the defense, I'm hyper vigilant,
(03:39):
making sure I'm doing the right thing, I'm not late,
I'm not forgetting stuff. And once we get tipped into
that state, you tend to get stuck in that state.
So I work with adults who don't know life other
than being in fight or flight or being dysregulated. So
that causes a lot of problems. Because being in fighter
flight is useful when you're imminent life threatening danger, right
(04:02):
when fight flight freeze and fawn is actually going to
save your life. If you are writing emails, have a
long to do list, trying to organize your day, not
as helpful. So that is what's actually creating so many
of the problems, not the neurodivergence itself.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because people believe they're in danger, at least their nervous
system believes they're in danger even though they actually aren't.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Absolutely, So it's perceiving the stress, the overwhelm, all of
that stuff that we've kind of it's like a flip
has been switched on my system perceived danger because we're
very primal being still even though it was Oh, my
teacher was mad at me. I got in trouble for
handing that thing in light, but we still perceive that
(04:45):
as a bear is chasing me. And so because it's
twenty twenty six and not everybody obviously, but most of
us people listening to this podcast are probably physically safe,
it causes a lot of problems because the blood flow
actually leaves the brain and goes to the limbs when
I'm trying to write emails, organize my day, prioritize I
(05:05):
need blood float to the brain. So we really our skills,
our executive functioning goes down when we're in that state
as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So one of the first things you need to do
then if you recognize this state or recognize this about yourself,
is to figure out how to calm yourself down. What
are some strategies that I suppose people even who are
not living with ADHD could use to calm ourselves down.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yes, being in fight or flight it can't affect anybody, right,
So it's not just for eight each year's it's just
very common with neurodivergent people. First thing would be rushing.
This is something that's not talked about as much, but
regardless of the reason you're doing it, rushing is going
to signal to your body that you are in danger.
I'm getting chased by a bear, I'm moving so quickly
(05:51):
or even thinking so quickly that there must be danger present.
So we really want to work on slowing down. So
if you're rushing to a meeting, we just want to walk.
If you're typing out an email at breakneck speed, slow
down and just do things at a pace that's a
little bit more calming. And that's a great first step.
What else could we do.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Let's go through a list of things that you would
recommend some people.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, there's kind of three elements to the ADHD regulation
method that I use with people. So first is that
physical piece. We want to tell the body we are safe,
and that's going to look like a deep breath, relaxing
your shoulders, slowing down, very simple. The second piece is
thought and belief regulation, which is much more complex. And
we have a lot of ways of thinking and a
(06:38):
lot of belief systems that are rooted that are sorry,
that stem from a nervous system that feels unsafe. So
thoughts like I'm behind, I need to catch up, there's
not enough time in the day, I should have done
that yesterday. All of those That kind of thinking keeps
us in a disregulated state, which is going to make
(06:59):
us ineffect forget full, unorganized. So another thing is really
being aware of your thinking. Are my thoughts and beliefs
keeping me anxiety in anxiety? Are they keeping me rushing frazzled?
And we want to work on that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So how are some ways I could rewrite those scripts?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Because I know a lot of people listening to this
are in fact telling themselves there's not enough.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Time in the day.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean, we're all busy these days, so what could
I do to stop telling myself that story?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
A big part of regulation work is aligning with reality,
which just me to stop fighting with reality. So if
you're thinking there's not enough time in the day, just
think of that fight like you are going to lose
that fight every time there is the time there is?
Now what can I do with it? So it's just
observing where am I fighting with reality? I should have
(07:53):
done that yesterday, okay, but you didn't, So what's the reality?
The reality is I didn't do that? Now what? And
I love the now whatk So it gives us just
that forward momentum. So observing where are my thoughts and beliefs.
Fighting with reality or fighting with what is? That is
a great place to work on love that.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and
I'll be back with more from Jenniffree.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Back talking with Jennifree, who is a therapist, an expert
on ADHD, and the author of the brand new book
The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So I love one
of your sayings that if you have to rush, there
isn't time. I'm curious how you see this manifesting itself
so often with people. I one thing that comes to mind,
people always telling me, well, I could empty the dishwasher
(08:47):
before I walk out the door.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It's like, well maybe you can't.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Absolutely that's exactly the right example. So, especially in each years,
but anybody who struggles with being on time, we will
blame you know, oh I'm too easily distry, or I
have time blindness. That's a big thing for eight each year's.
But often we've because go back to our beliefs there's
not enough time in the day, so I have to
squeeze everything into every possible minute I can. So I'll
(09:13):
just quickly unload the dishwasher. Well, you you should have
left five minutes ago. Why if we have to quickly
rush to do it, it's probably a sign that there's no time.
Let's just put it down, we can do it later,
and let's leave now. It really will retrain your system
to just live in the reality that there is the
time there is. We're valuing being on time more than
(09:37):
we are rushing to quickly get that thing done, because
every time we rush to do a task, we are
also signaling to our body that we're not safe. We've
got to get into fight or flight. Blood flow is
gonna leave your brain, it's gonna go to your limbs.
You're not gonna be as clear thinking, You're not gonna
be able to prioritize plan. So it really is a
kind of philosophy to live by because oh, slow and
(09:59):
steady wins like that is a saying for a reason.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, what is time blindness? Maybe you can explain that
to us.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So I don't know if a lot of ADHD's symptoms
terminology is just summing up what we see as a
struggle with ADHD. And in my work, I am proposing
that a lot of what we've assumed is ADHD is
actually a dysregulated brain that's also neurodivergent, but it is
(10:29):
a temporal distortion, meaning a distortion of time. Well, that
happens when we're in fight or flight as well, So
it's not exclusive to the neurodivergent brain, but it can
be you know, losing track of time really easily, thinking
things will take away longer than they do, thinking things
will take away less time than they do, and just
feeling like you can't get a grasp on organizing your
(10:50):
time well because you can't perceive it accurately.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Are there things you can do to become a more
accurate perceiver of time?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Regulate, which is that slow down, retraining our system that
it is not in danger, aligning with reality and not
fighting with reality as much. Of course, there's many more
tools we can get into, but all of this leads
to a system that is calm, cool, collected. It's going
to think more clearly, it's going to have less distortions,
both cognitive distortions temporal distortions where we don't see things accurately.
(11:24):
That will all dissipate naturally with regulation.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So one of the things I always suggest to people
when they're trying to figure out time is keeping track
of it.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I'm curious if you think that that might.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Be helpful to people I'm talking to who are neurodivergent,
or do you think they're not going to like that
at all.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It can be tricky because that is what's taught to
each year is the external tools, the timers, the calendars,
the planners, the tracking, the systems strategies. But what I
have found is a system in fight or flight. Give
that system tools is like an umbrella and a hurricane.
There is no amount of external support that's going to
(12:04):
make up for a system in fight or flight. So
it's always working on that internal based stuff first. Then
we can go, Okay, where are my missing gaps and
what tools and strategies can I use. I have a
calendar that I use religiously that is so supportive of me,
no matter how regulated I am. I do have a
wristwatch that I wear it's just the time, so that
(12:26):
I'm more in tune with what time it is and
have it accessible, but overly tracking. Being hyper vigilant about
these things can also tip into dysregulation. Because I also
have many clients who are chronically early because they are
so anxious about being late, that they'll waste forty five
minutes going early and sitting and waiting. Well, that it's
(12:47):
not really a good solution either, So it's finding that balance.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So how do you use your calendar to support yourself?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
If you think that you might have some time blindness
on occasion, how does your calendar support you and moving
beyond that?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Absolutely so being a regulated person as absolutely supported in
me being able to use it every single day, and
I keep my old ones because I do have these
paper calendar. I use a paper calendar. It's more grounding,
it's more physical. I find that really helpful for regulation.
But I'm on my fourth book of it. So this
is my fourth year every single day using my calendar,
(13:22):
and it's simply writing down what I'm going to do.
But because I'm regulated, I'm mindful enough to remember to
look at it. I do have it open in front
of me on my desk at all times, and I'm
not caught up in the perfection guilt and shame that
we can be when we're disregulated and try to use tools.
I'm flexible about it. If I don't get something done,
(13:43):
I'm completely fine crossing it off and moving it along.
So it's that flexibility I think that allows for a
calendar to work for somebody.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Now, you mentioned in your book this sort of analogy
of viewing big projects as either a wall of bricks
in front of you or more of.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
A brick path. Can you talk a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
About that analogy and how that might be helpful for
people who even are neurotypical and view big projects as
almost overwhelming.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Absolutely so, if you have overwhelmed, you're not present, because
you cannot be overwhelmed if you're present. So if we
are thinking about a project, oh, I want to start
that work project, but I'm going to have to email
those five people. I have to do that five hours
of research. I'm also going to have to write this paper.
It's like all the bricks are stacking up in front
of us, when the reality is I can only do
(14:32):
one thing at a time. So there's the awareness of ah,
I'm seeing the brick wall, which is a cognitive distortion. Right,
So that's a skewed perspective of reality. Because the reality
is time and space are linear. I can only do
one thing at a time. So we can practice laying
that down in our mind's eye. Okay, if this was
(14:52):
a brick path. What is one brick I could step on?
Not what is the one right, perfect first brick? What
is a brick? Kick a step on? That mightbe A'll
email Joe and ask him that question. I have right,
it's just getting into some momentum and movement and stepping
on the bricks one by one instead of trying to
smash the wall down all at once.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We're going to take a quick ad break and I'll
be back with more from Jennifree.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, I am.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Back talking with Jennifree, therapist and ADHD expert, author of
the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation. So, Jenna,
I'd love to move more to what your own schedule
looks like. People love to hear about people's schedules with
this show, do you what does a day look like
for you?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Well, I am like a broken record. But it's I
prioritize regulation, so I don't want to do too much,
I don't want to do too little. It's finding that
sweet spot. The definition of being regulated is the rate
or speed at which technically a machine functions best. So
having nothing on my calendar is you know, it's too open,
(16:09):
there's too much flexibility. You kind of don't use your
time well. Also, stuffing too much in there makes it overwhelming,
puts you in a paralysis, puts you into a state
where you're not very efficient and effective. So I really
have gotten good at knowing what my capacity is, knowing
what's too much for me, and having that flexibility to
(16:30):
move things around. I don't have any specifics that's rigid
every day. That flexibility is key for me to stay regulated.
But I do find when I when I'm not rushing,
when i have a great relationship with reality and I'm
not fighting with it, the days just really flow well.
And my sound for regulation is do do do do.
(16:53):
That's what I want my feeling to be every day
is I'm chugging along. I'm getting things done, but I'm
not in a panic, not frantic. I'm not trying to
squeeze fifteen things in that are unrealistic. And I'm also
not stuck and stagnant doing nothing. So that's a bit
of a less tangible example, but those are the key
points that have really helped me with functioning well in
(17:15):
scheduling well.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But of course, I mean you have children and so
they probably occasionally mess up that schedule. That sense of
you know, trying to have the right amount in any
given day, or you know they tend to throw curveballs
into a schedule.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I'm curious how.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know you deal with that, because I think that
the chaos of having young kids is again one of
those things that leads people to understand that they are
neurotypical and how they're reacting to it. So I'm curious
how you are dealing with raising children and needing that regulation.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Absolutely so, yes, I have six and seven year old boys.
We are in the thick of it. And I when
I was more dysregulated, I had so much anger and rigidity.
If they woke up sick, had to stay home from daycare,
I just won't forget me, like punching the matress, going ah,
how am I so frustrated by this change in plans?
(18:10):
And there's the rigidity that also tips me off when
someone is neurodivergent and in a fight or flight. Now,
in a more regulated state, I plan as best I can,
but again that alignment with reality. The reality is he's homesick. Okay,
what am I gonna do? Right? How am I gonna
work with the reality I have? And instead of spending
so much of my time and energy fighting with he
(18:32):
should If he hadn't been home, I would have gotten
this done. I would well, here we are, how do
I deal with it? So it's so much easier to
roll with the punches, except reality adjusts things accordingly without it.
Derael like everything. Well.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Do you have any routines though that you think make
you more productive? I mean, even if days are different,
are there any sort of routines you make sure to
follow as much as you can?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I do just get out of bed when my alarm goes.
That is something I could not do when I was disregulated,
and I know for eight each year it's very hard
to wake up in the morning. But when you are
more present and less stuck in your thinking, I do
find I just don't even think about it. I just
stand up and mows you through my day, So that
(19:18):
really helps I do. Something that I kind of connected
is if I'm already going out, it's so much easier
for me to go to the gym. So I'm lucky
enough to have a flexible schedule where after I drop
my kids off from school, if I go straight to
the gym, I'm going to go. If I come home first,
I ain't going. So it's some little things I've learned
(19:38):
about myself that I try to honor as much as possible,
So that has helped. But everyone's gonna be so different
in what works for them.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah. Yeah, although I'm sure exercise does help in general,
right getting physical activity is that a good way to
regulate oneself?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Absolutely ideally, And if you are in fight or flight,
you're in survival mode. You are just keeping your head
above water. I do not ask anyone who is drowning
to go work out as the first step. So it
is a beautiful thing if you can do it, but
that is not something we have to do right away
in order to regulate excellent.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So, Jenna, I always ask my guests, what is something
you have done recently to take a day from great
to awesome?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
I think the biggest thing that makes a lot of
my days awesome is really connecting with my belief that
the day is meant to be enjoyed, not just to
check off the to do list. So I really try
to enjoy the process of the day. Doesn't mean I'm
playing hooky at work, doesn't mean I'm going to Disneyland
every day. But even in you know, writing emails. Can
(20:46):
I sit in somewhere comfortable. Can I do it at
a pace that's not painful? Can I make this as
pleasurable as possible, Because especially if you're neurodivergent and or
just regulated, feeling in a rush, always like you're behind
and each catch up, we really can live our lives
in a way where we're just trying to get it
over with, just trying to get things done so I
can move on to the next thing soon enough. You've
(21:09):
looked back in the past month has flown by, and
you haven't soaked up any of it. So I think
it's a big shift if you people can even bring
that up to the same priority level. Okay, yes, I
want to get things done. I want to work my
schedule and do it well. I also want to enjoy
the experience, because for most of us we are forgetting
that part entirely.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, well, what are you looking forward to right now?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Speaking of enjoying things.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I am looking forward to. I am a big traveler.
I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks with some friends,
and I do love a change in schedule. That being said,
love my routine, love a schedule, and oh my gosh,
to have a break from it can be such a reset.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, well that should be a lot of fun. I
hear you like all sorts of random hobbies too. That
was one of the things I saw on your bio.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yes, very eighth. She think as well. Uh, I've been sewing, tennis, acting, yoga.
They kind of come and go. But I do love
a love a good hobby.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Follow your fancy at the moment, for sure. So Jenna,
where can people find you?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
You can find me at ADHD with Jennifree dot com,
slash groups that's all about my work, and on social
media at ADHD with Jennifree.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Well, Jenna, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Thank you to everyone for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
If you have feedback on this or any.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Other episode, you can always reach me at Laura at
Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura,
Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
our time.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas,
or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura
vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia. Please visit the iHeartRadio app,
(23:09):
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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