November 20, 2024 • 25 mins
Executive coach Maya Gudka shares practical tips for taking your career to the next level
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
my series where I interview fascinating people about how they
manage their time and how all of us can take
(00:26):
our days from great to awesome. So I am excited
to welcome Maya Gudka to Before Breakfast today. Maya is
an executive coach who also works in leadership development with
many big corporations. So Maya, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi Laura, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thanks so much for coming on. So tell our listeners
a little bit about yourself and your work.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah great. So, as you said, I'm an executive coach.
I started life as an economist and I've spent most
of my career inside organizations. In the last few years
have the opportunity to go independent and cricket and so
what I do right now is I have a really
wide range of clients. I work with everyone from charity,
(01:11):
so I work closely with a charity that supports social workers.
Then with London Business School, I work with everybody from
those that have just graduated from their masters. So really
early on in their careers, all the way to senior
executives kind of at the top of their game. And
then it's super international as well. So I will be
coaching on any given day, I might be working with
(01:33):
somebody from Saudi Arabia, I might be working with somebody
from the Far East, somebody in China, so it's super
international from a global perspective. And then of course in London,
I will be heading into people's offices as well as
working from home, coaching brands that we know, such as
in the UK, Marks and Spencer or maybe Sony Music
(01:53):
might be familiar to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, absolutely, and so it sounds like if you're working
with lots of different people and lots of different places,
it might be hard to build any sort of routine.
But you do have a bit of a morning routine,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yes, I do, and I'm a before Breakfast listener, so
I have definitely read up on all sorts of listened
up on lots of great routines that I've heard here
and on Best of Both Worlds podcasts. So I really
enjoy that routine perspective, and right now what our routine
looks like because It's always shifting a little bit, isn't it.
But as we head into winter, I'm not really getting
(02:30):
up before seven, but that's the time that we do
need to be up. My daughter has to be up
at seven. She's out the door within half an hour.
I'm not the default parent in the morning, though, so
sometimes I even get handed a coffee in bed by
my husband, which is high luxury, I know, but I
typically am able.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
To enjoy my cup of coffee in the morning.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And then because I'm not the default parent, I'm not
rushing around, but I will have one eye on what's
going on with my two kids. I've got an eight
year old and a ten year old. But really what
I'm thinking about at that point is what is my
hard stuff that I want to do today. So it's
really that swallow the frog stuff I'm not doing like
fancy journaling or anything like that. I really just want
to get the hard stuff out of the way, and
(03:10):
that can look really different on a day to day basis.
So I will probably ask myself the day before, what
are you putting off here? Like what's not happening right now?
What is either demanding some extra motivation from you, some extracognition,
so I then know that that's what I'm getting out
of the way first thing in the morning. And typically
once I've done that, I'm feeling pretty good and I've
(03:31):
got some momentum, and so I'll get a few other
things out of the way. Then once I'm feeling like
I've got that chunk out of the way, we're looking
at nine nine thirty, then I'm heading out the door
for a walk, could be a run, walk run. Sometimes
a friend will be dropping a kid off nearby and
they will join me, and then I'm back, have a
(03:52):
delicious coffee, get ready for my clients, and then from
eleven o'clock all the way up to four point thirty.
If I'm working from home, I will be working with
clients all day. That's on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday.
I then have a no meeting day on Mondays and
not today because we're talking, but often I give myself
(04:12):
Thursdays off, so I've been working towards that this year.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So yeah's excite.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. I like the idea of planning a day off,
especially if you have a busy schedule the rest of
the week. So maybe you could talk about why someone
decides to work with a career coach and what they
might plan to get out of that sort of experience.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, so I think it can depend.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So if they've cut I'm often coming across people through
the corporate space, and so they might be either in
a leadership position, like a chunky leadership position, or they
might have missed out on one and that's why they
might have been recommended for coaching.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So they might be feeling a little.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Bit stuck in their career as well as wanting to
develop skills that are directly applicable in their current roles.
Because I also have a podcasting coach, I also have
people coming through that, and again, people are looking for clarity.
Often they have done the first era of their career.
They've done the kind of straightforward steps, maybe met other
people's expectations, done the obvious stuff, and now they're at
(05:14):
a point where that next stage looks a little bit murkier.
They can't necessarily find the exact role model or the
exact path, and they're struggling to identify what that might
look like as well as then having.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
The self belief to take some of those steps forward.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and so one of the first things you do
with people when they come to you is some visioning
which might describe might sound a little bit ruud to people.
But so what is practically does it mean to be
visioning when it comes to your career? Like, if I'm
doing this, what am I sitting down and doing?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, well, one thing you won't be doing, Laura, is
you won't be doing a vision board. So we're not
doing we're not doing the vision board. I would say
it's almost like the anti vision board because the thing
about my clients is that they're high achieving, they're quite practical, logical, analytical,
and so that whole vision board stuff just hasn't worked.
And in some ways that's good. In some ways that
is bad. What it does mean is they don't really
(06:12):
have that bigger picture of vision for their career because
they want to feel like it's a more robust approach.
So we look at their strengths, not just their strengths,
but their signature strengths. So when you combine a load
of strengths, you create some magic. What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Where?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
What does it feel like when they are using those
signature strengths tho zone of genius things which they feel
like they have an almost unfair advantage of using some
of cal Newbod's language. They're rare and valuable skills because
we also want those income generative lucrative skills a lot.
So we want to spend time identifying what this stuff
is and there is a little bit of manifestation in it.
I'm not going to not gonna lie, so we will also,
(06:48):
but I do that in a way that feels good
for my corporate clients who are very much not going
to be falling for the woo rooster. They're setting them
up for a series of exercises that make them feel
like when they are now constructing that vision, it's solid.
It's not just being plucked out of thin air. It's
not based on a few magazine cuttings. But then I
(07:09):
actually take them through a ideal mourning and I get
them to envision that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So yeah, and when you say, look at people's strengths
and how are you determining, how might somebody determine what
their particular unique strengths are.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, So there's a few different ways. There's some lovely
assessments out there. So there's a strengths finder, there's a
gallop Strengths finder, and there's another positive psychology tool that
is freely available. I can send a link for that one.
So there are some specific tools for those who want
that specificity, they want to feel like they're drawing from
an existing framework, but sometimes that's not necessary. Sometimes it's
(07:46):
just about asking a series of questions. Say, okay, where
are the areas where you get lit up? Where are
the areas that you find you're able to do things
more rapidly? You light up, you're energized by doing them
as well as often complemented. And one of the exercises
actually that I get people to do is go and
ask others what people think their strengths are. And I
will often have clients coming back to you saying, you
know what, that part was very useful because I probably
(08:08):
underestimated or took for granted some of my strength. So
having that outside perspective, often from people that are close
to you, that see you in a great light, but
a different light than you might see yourself, can be
really valuable as well.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, and probably fun to go about asking people, Hey,
what do you see as my strongest my strongest suits exactly. Well,
we're going to take a quick ad break and then
I will be back with more from Maya Guodca. Well,
we are back. This is one of the longer episodes
(08:40):
of Before Breakfast where I am interviewing career coach Maya Goudca.
She is also, you know, been working in lots of
big organizations for many years and Maya one of the
things we talked about before this is that there are
systematic steps people can take to elevate their careers within
(09:01):
an organization. So you know, sometimes people are like, well, Okay,
I'm going to find out my strength and I'm going
to decide I have to go completely switch careers, I
have to completely go do something else, which seems like
a lot of bother What can we do in the
next couple weeks or so to maybe take things to
the next level within what we're currently doing.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, So I would say that that north star that
you would get from giving it having your own vision
is going to be valuable even when you then start
doing these systematic steps, because it will give you a
sense of Okay, who are those pivotal people that are
going to be super aligned with that vision that I
have for the future. So let's take that that we
have a bit of that north star going on, which
(09:45):
is why it's.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The kind of the firstep in the process.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But once you've got some sense of that, then I
talk about building up support for yourself in a long
term way inside an organization. I have a bit of
a spiral for that. So the first bit is understanding
your unique influencings. So often my clients will tell me
things like I'm not see sweet material, or I don't
have that natural charismatic leadership style. Actually, what I see
(10:09):
now is that there are so many different leadership styles.
You've just got to own your own and feel comfortable
with it. So you might have received some feedback over
time telling you you're too challenging, you're too direct, or
you're too held back, or you're not the obvious party extravert,
and people will then feel like they have to put
a mask on. And what I say is, actually, no,
let's work with that style. Let's actually lean into your
(10:31):
original style and let's bring it out. Let's find ways
for you to use that inside the organization. You're going
to enjoy that more and it's going to feel more authentic,
be less exhausting for you. So we spend a bit
of time thinking about that. The next bit is then
having done a bit of vision work and thinking about
where you want to get to next, because you kind
of need to know that otherwise we're doing it at
(10:51):
a very tactical level.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The next bit is thinking about, Okay, who are those.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Pivotal people that are going to be really helpful unlocking
next steps in my career, in the success of my
team as well, so it's not just about you and
your career, but also like the success of the work
that you're doing inside the organization. And I get people
to jot down one to five such people, and I say,
(11:16):
don't worry. Even if the relationship is like a zero
out ten right now, if they barely know you, that's
fine because they're not rushing this. You can start to
find slow ways, little ways to interact with them.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So we build up this picture.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The next stage is then managing some of the more
tricky relationships, because as well as sometimes feeling like that
person might them not know them. Sometimes people feel like
I know somebody that could help me and not in
my career, but I don't have a good relationship with them.
In fact, like I think it's a little bit uncomfortable.
So we think about what we can do on that.
But because we know which are those important relationships, we
(11:50):
focus the energy on the right ones. I then take
people through how to make a good ask inside an
organization because we have a vision, because we know what
it is that we want to achieve, We know what
sorts of asks that we want to make, whether that's
a promotionless a comment, a tool project, a case that
we want to make for the way that something should
be done. And I really encourage people, once they've got
(12:13):
some of those relationships in place, to spend time understanding
the drivers for you of those key sponsors that they
are asking us, Like what is important for those sponsors
right now? How can we position your ask in a
way that is going to really play to the interest
of the individual and their commercial interests also their human interests,
and how can we head off objections that they might have.
(12:36):
So I go into a lot more detail with that process,
so I can if you want to ask me more
about that, we can do that. But the final stage
is you kind of know your personal style, You've warmed
up a lot of key relationships, you know how to
make a case of things. The final bit then is
some of those more high stakes situations, whether that's like
the board meeting, a big presentation, a panel interview. That's
often the point at which people think they need coaching.
(12:58):
But we've started a lot earlier, and at that stage
I take time with people to help them understand the
psychology of setting those up for success. How do you
contract at the beginning of one of those meetings? How
do you introduce yourself? And how do you if it's
something where you are going to know that there's going
to be quite a challenging discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
How can you contract for things?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
When I say that, what I mean is set the
tone for how people are going to manage that conversation
and keep an eye on that during the conversation so
that you're not hit left field or if the conversation
seems like it's going to completely out of control, you
have a way to.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Bring that back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And that's my relational spiral. That's quite a lot there,
I know I thrown at you. There may be things
that you want to dive into.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, let's talk about how you can start. You know,
Let's say that somebody is someone you barely know and
you have identified them as a key stakeholder in raising
your profile within an organization, how might you are sent
to go about building that relationship? I mean, how can
(14:04):
you do that within the context of a big organization.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So the first thing is that clients will often realize,
once we've identified the person, that they do have some
opportunities to be in the orbit of that individual. It
could be an event, it could be after a big
meeting out, could be passing in the corridor, and so
actually just being aware of those opportunities and leaning into
them rather than perhaps sort of holding back, which is
what people can often do. So taking those opportunities, that
(14:32):
low hanging fruit to start to make the effort to
have those bigger conversations. So that's the first stage. I
always say, where are your opportunities, where's your low hanging fruit.
Then typically there's going to be some sort of a
project interaction or some sort of a work type interaction
that you can have with them. It could be that
you're doing a certain project that is of interest to them,
(14:52):
and actually then being able to say, by the way,
we should line up on that because I know you're
also considering X and Y, and so you can start
to build up the opportunity if it's not already there.
To have more meaty conversations, and then ultimately as you're
starting to have more of those interactions, I always encourage
people to linger at the start of the conversation, hate
the time to say, how are you what's exciting for
(15:14):
you right now? Is it super crazy? Are you going
to get a chance to have a rest soon? And
just don't be put off if that is initially met
with a little bit of oh okay, or it's battered back,
that's just an indication of that individual right that it's
not about you. You've not failed if you've leant into
a little bit more rapport building, and slowly people find
(15:36):
ways to build up those relationships. And then I always say,
at some point, if you're really struggling to get that
common ground and you've had a few small interactions, some
point you can say, I'd love to have a bit
of a mental conversation with you and have a coffee
and pick your brains about specific career things that I
think are you know one bish I could really get
a lot of insight from you, so then, you know,
(15:58):
But I wouldn't advise people do that straight away.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, you want to warm them up first before you
leap into the ask of course, of course, all right,
Well we're going to take one more quick ad break
and then we will be back with Maya Gudka. Well,
I am back. This is one of the longer episodes
of Before Breakfast. I am talking to Maya Gudka, who
(16:24):
is an executive coach. She has worked in leadership development
with many big corporations. So we've been talking about how
to build your profile within an organization, how you might
create a contact that would help you know you move
through how you get to that ask. And then Maya,
you were talking earlier about these sort of high stake
situations like the big meeting where you're giving the big presentation,
(16:46):
and one of the things you do is work with
people about how to kind of enjoy that a bit more.
I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, So people will tell me that their worst fear
in those is being caught off God, is being are
something that they don't have an answer to. Is that
somebody else in the meeting is going to react in
a strange way and that's going to derail the whole thing.
So these are some of the fears that people have,
but being caught off God is one of the biggest ones.
(17:14):
So often once we can address that, then people can
relax into that setting a little bit more, And so
I help people have a bit of a toolkit around that.
So what are you going to say if somebody catches
you off? God like, you can just have a toolkit
for that, which could be something like that is a
great question. At the moment, I don't have all the
(17:35):
data on that. What I would say, based on what
we've already done is X, but let's we will come
back to you because I think there's a little bit
more to that one, and just knowing that you have
some ways to respond. And over the years, I remember
just seeing those who are very expert at this doing
this sort of thing, and those were often the people
had that real confidence because they weren't afraid of what
(17:58):
was being thrown at them, so they could really be
there to enjoy the discussion and enjoy the debate. So
that's one really key way that I work with people
to overcome some of that so that they can relax
into the meeting a bit more.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Just anticipate what's going to happen, and have some pocket
phrases that can even buy them a little time.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
For something, yes, and also take the pressure off of
this idea that they have to have all the answers.
I think it's really easy, and it's a real common
thing amongst my clients that perhaps at a certain stage
in their career they were relied on more for just
their knowledge, but they're now at stages where it's not
just about that, and it's often others that are going
to have the expertise. They no longer need to have
(18:40):
all the expertise, but they kind of need to be
able to marshal it and be able to have good,
live in the moment conversations, even if they're not going
to be all right or all wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, all, Eric, Well, let's pivot from that to some
of the strategies you are using to make yourself more productive.
I wonder if you have you know, one or two
twos that have been working for you lately in terms
of getting more done.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
This year, the biggest shift for me has come from
sorting my calendarly out. So I had a business coach
and she walked us through her week, her typical week,
and how she started her day a little bit later
when she was having those intense days, and I thought,
you know what, I've sort of been doing this subconsciously.
I've been angling for meetings to start at this time.
(19:25):
I've been creating space here. There's an automated tool that
does this. So if I've got a two hour coaching session,
it will schedule for me a fifteen minute break before
and office so I can quickly whizz around the block,
re energize and be ready for the next call. And
knowing that that Calendly has been set up in a
way that I'm really excited about gives me the space
(19:46):
has been super excited. I've never been one to want
to hand off my calendar to somebody else and have
somebody manage that, because in my view, your calendar is
your temple, and like you don't want to just open
it up. But knowing that I've been able to input
into that system and set it up in a way.
Don't get me wrong, there are glitches sometimes, but I'd
much rather deal with those here and there, but know
(20:06):
that the.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Rough broad structure in a typical week is what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
So that's been great, and I think it's actually enabled
that day off as well.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and I mean just using Calendly in general, I'm
sure is helpful for when you have a ton of
different people trying to schedule time or yeah, worse, moving
time around. That's sort of the bane of my existence often.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah, exactly, So I'd always been using scheduling tool that it's
impossible to do what I do multiple conversations per week
without having a scheduling tool. But what I hadn't done
was take the time to look at those calendar settings
and really set them up in a way that was
going to work for me, make sure those days looked
good to me, and make sure that they were in
some ways I guess they're compressed, and that's been really
(20:50):
helpful as well, and also exactly as you say, then
making the rescheduling process super easy so that people can
go away and do that, so I will often now
not have to have any to do with that. It's
just happening and I can see somebody's rescheduled something, and
I know it's going to be fine because I know
it's within those parameters.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And the idea of taking a little bit of time
before and after an intense call, I mean, how can
you sort of what are you doing within that to
manage your energy so that you can then be on
for the next one.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, So my default is I've got a little loop
that I can walk around, and I know that it
takes me about twelve minutes, so that's my default. I
just go around the block, clear my head, and I'm
ready for another call. I typically don't have too many
two hour blocks in a day, but if I've got
one of those, I know I'm going to need some
space either before or after. If I've got more of
like one hour call, which is another frequent time timespan
(21:42):
that I would have, I'm kind of okay to go
for a couple of those back to back. But the
main thing for me is that I've got to get
a bit of fresh air and get away from it.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It just do something different for a bit, to take
a real yeah break and move. Yes, definitely good for
managing energy. I know if you could tell us. One
of the taglines of the show is you know, taking
our days from great to awesome. What is something you've
done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Well, my Mondays have definitely gone from great to awesome
because I have found a local dance class and it's
in the evening.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Dance, and this one is local at a super high standard,
and I think it's just kicks all the boxes. The
fact that it's down the road means that there's very
little chance of me missing it, and so I'm in
bed by ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But I feel like I've had a bit of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
A night out on a Monday, so that's been really good.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, what kind of dance are you doing?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
This is a Bollywood dance class, but the music that
she uses, she'll integrate lots of other types into. I
used to be in a professional dance troupe that was Bollywood,
which is this specific type of Indian dancing. But yeah,
it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And are you going to be performing anytime soon or
is it not working for that?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
This one isn't This one is a routine per week
which we then perform to the cat to our own cameras,
which we can then film. But I have performed quite
a lot in the past. I've performed in the Olympics
opening ceremony, I've performed.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
At various events.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So right now I'm kind of enjoying it for its
own sake, But who knows, now that I've got back
into it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I never know. Maybe the next Olympics you'll be performing
in that one. Yeah, exactly could happen, and this could happen. Yeah,
all right, well, Maya, why don't you let our listeners
know where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, so I have the Executive Coach podcast. If you
just type in the Executive Coach podcast, you should be
able to find me. And then if you're interested in
the career stuff, I have a career blind spots checklist
that you can down overrom my website and that is Maya.
Ma Ya goodkagu DKA dot com. You can head over
(23:45):
there and get hold of that.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
All right. Well, I'm sure we all have some career
blind spots that we should be aware of and would
be good to figure out. So Maya, thank you so
much for joining us, and thank you to everyone for listening.
I welcome feedback on these longer episodes or any ideas
or topics you would like to see me discuss on
before breakfast, and as always, you can reach me at
(24:08):
Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. So in the meantime,
this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making
the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach
(24:30):
me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast
is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia,
please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
episode is going to be a longer one part of
my series where I interview fascinating people about how they
manage their time and how all of us can take
(00:26):
our days from great to awesome. So I am excited
to welcome Maya Gudka to Before Breakfast today. Maya is
an executive coach who also works in leadership development with
many big corporations. So Maya, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi Laura, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thanks so much for coming on. So tell our listeners
a little bit about yourself and your work.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah great. So, as you said, I'm an executive coach.
I started life as an economist and I've spent most
of my career inside organizations. In the last few years
have the opportunity to go independent and cricket and so
what I do right now is I have a really
wide range of clients. I work with everyone from charity,
(01:11):
so I work closely with a charity that supports social workers.
Then with London Business School, I work with everybody from
those that have just graduated from their masters. So really
early on in their careers, all the way to senior
executives kind of at the top of their game. And
then it's super international as well. So I will be
coaching on any given day, I might be working with
(01:33):
somebody from Saudi Arabia, I might be working with somebody
from the Far East, somebody in China, so it's super
international from a global perspective. And then of course in London,
I will be heading into people's offices as well as
working from home, coaching brands that we know, such as
in the UK, Marks and Spencer or maybe Sony Music
(01:53):
might be familiar to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, absolutely, and so it sounds like if you're working
with lots of different people and lots of different places,
it might be hard to build any sort of routine.
But you do have a bit of a morning routine,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yes, I do, and I'm a before Breakfast listener, so
I have definitely read up on all sorts of listened
up on lots of great routines that I've heard here
and on Best of Both Worlds podcasts. So I really
enjoy that routine perspective, and right now what our routine
looks like because It's always shifting a little bit, isn't it.
But as we head into winter, I'm not really getting
(02:30):
up before seven, but that's the time that we do
need to be up. My daughter has to be up
at seven. She's out the door within half an hour.
I'm not the default parent in the morning, though, so
sometimes I even get handed a coffee in bed by
my husband, which is high luxury, I know, but I
typically am able.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
To enjoy my cup of coffee in the morning.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
And then because I'm not the default parent, I'm not
rushing around, but I will have one eye on what's
going on with my two kids. I've got an eight
year old and a ten year old. But really what
I'm thinking about at that point is what is my
hard stuff that I want to do today. So it's
really that swallow the frog stuff I'm not doing like
fancy journaling or anything like that. I really just want
to get the hard stuff out of the way, and
(03:10):
that can look really different on a day to day basis.
So I will probably ask myself the day before, what
are you putting off here? Like what's not happening right now?
What is either demanding some extra motivation from you, some extracognition,
so I then know that that's what I'm getting out
of the way first thing in the morning. And typically
once I've done that, I'm feeling pretty good and I've
(03:31):
got some momentum, and so I'll get a few other
things out of the way. Then once I'm feeling like
I've got that chunk out of the way, we're looking
at nine nine thirty, then I'm heading out the door
for a walk, could be a run, walk run. Sometimes
a friend will be dropping a kid off nearby and
they will join me, and then I'm back, have a
(03:52):
delicious coffee, get ready for my clients, and then from
eleven o'clock all the way up to four point thirty.
If I'm working from home, I will be working with
clients all day. That's on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday.
I then have a no meeting day on Mondays and
not today because we're talking, but often I give myself
(04:12):
Thursdays off, so I've been working towards that this year.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So yeah's excite.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. I like the idea of planning a day off,
especially if you have a busy schedule the rest of
the week. So maybe you could talk about why someone
decides to work with a career coach and what they
might plan to get out of that sort of experience.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, so I think it can depend.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So if they've cut I'm often coming across people through
the corporate space, and so they might be either in
a leadership position, like a chunky leadership position, or they
might have missed out on one and that's why they
might have been recommended for coaching.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So they might be feeling a little.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Bit stuck in their career as well as wanting to
develop skills that are directly applicable in their current roles.
Because I also have a podcasting coach, I also have
people coming through that, and again, people are looking for clarity.
Often they have done the first era of their career.
They've done the kind of straightforward steps, maybe met other
people's expectations, done the obvious stuff, and now they're at
(05:14):
a point where that next stage looks a little bit murkier.
They can't necessarily find the exact role model or the
exact path, and they're struggling to identify what that might
look like as well as then having.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
The self belief to take some of those steps forward.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and so one of the first things you do
with people when they come to you is some visioning
which might describe might sound a little bit ruud to people.
But so what is practically does it mean to be
visioning when it comes to your career? Like, if I'm
doing this, what am I sitting down and doing?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, well, one thing you won't be doing, Laura, is
you won't be doing a vision board. So we're not
doing we're not doing the vision board. I would say
it's almost like the anti vision board because the thing
about my clients is that they're high achieving, they're quite practical, logical, analytical,
and so that whole vision board stuff just hasn't worked.
And in some ways that's good. In some ways that
is bad. What it does mean is they don't really
(06:12):
have that bigger picture of vision for their career because
they want to feel like it's a more robust approach.
So we look at their strengths, not just their strengths,
but their signature strengths. So when you combine a load
of strengths, you create some magic. What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Where?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
What does it feel like when they are using those
signature strengths tho zone of genius things which they feel
like they have an almost unfair advantage of using some
of cal Newbod's language. They're rare and valuable skills because
we also want those income generative lucrative skills a lot.
So we want to spend time identifying what this stuff
is and there is a little bit of manifestation in it.
I'm not going to not gonna lie, so we will also,
(06:48):
but I do that in a way that feels good
for my corporate clients who are very much not going
to be falling for the woo rooster. They're setting them
up for a series of exercises that make them feel
like when they are now constructing that vision, it's solid.
It's not just being plucked out of thin air. It's
not based on a few magazine cuttings. But then I
(07:09):
actually take them through a ideal mourning and I get
them to envision that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So yeah, and when you say, look at people's strengths
and how are you determining, how might somebody determine what
their particular unique strengths are.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, So there's a few different ways. There's some lovely
assessments out there. So there's a strengths finder, there's a
gallop Strengths finder, and there's another positive psychology tool that
is freely available. I can send a link for that one.
So there are some specific tools for those who want
that specificity, they want to feel like they're drawing from
an existing framework, but sometimes that's not necessary. Sometimes it's
(07:46):
just about asking a series of questions. Say, okay, where
are the areas where you get lit up? Where are
the areas that you find you're able to do things
more rapidly? You light up, you're energized by doing them
as well as often complemented. And one of the exercises
actually that I get people to do is go and
ask others what people think their strengths are. And I
will often have clients coming back to you saying, you
know what, that part was very useful because I probably
(08:08):
underestimated or took for granted some of my strength. So
having that outside perspective, often from people that are close
to you, that see you in a great light, but
a different light than you might see yourself, can be
really valuable as well.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, and probably fun to go about asking people, Hey,
what do you see as my strongest my strongest suits exactly. Well,
we're going to take a quick ad break and then
I will be back with more from Maya Guodca. Well,
we are back. This is one of the longer episodes
(08:40):
of Before Breakfast where I am interviewing career coach Maya Goudca.
She is also, you know, been working in lots of
big organizations for many years and Maya one of the
things we talked about before this is that there are
systematic steps people can take to elevate their careers within
(09:01):
an organization. So you know, sometimes people are like, well, Okay,
I'm going to find out my strength and I'm going
to decide I have to go completely switch careers, I
have to completely go do something else, which seems like
a lot of bother What can we do in the
next couple weeks or so to maybe take things to
the next level within what we're currently doing.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, So I would say that that north star that
you would get from giving it having your own vision
is going to be valuable even when you then start
doing these systematic steps, because it will give you a
sense of Okay, who are those pivotal people that are
going to be super aligned with that vision that I
have for the future. So let's take that that we
have a bit of that north star going on, which
(09:45):
is why it's.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The kind of the firstep in the process.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But once you've got some sense of that, then I
talk about building up support for yourself in a long
term way inside an organization. I have a bit of
a spiral for that. So the first bit is understanding
your unique influencings. So often my clients will tell me
things like I'm not see sweet material, or I don't
have that natural charismatic leadership style. Actually, what I see
(10:09):
now is that there are so many different leadership styles.
You've just got to own your own and feel comfortable
with it. So you might have received some feedback over
time telling you you're too challenging, you're too direct, or
you're too held back, or you're not the obvious party extravert,
and people will then feel like they have to put
a mask on. And what I say is, actually, no,
let's work with that style. Let's actually lean into your
(10:31):
original style and let's bring it out. Let's find ways
for you to use that inside the organization. You're going
to enjoy that more and it's going to feel more authentic,
be less exhausting for you. So we spend a bit
of time thinking about that. The next bit is then
having done a bit of vision work and thinking about
where you want to get to next, because you kind
of need to know that otherwise we're doing it at
(10:51):
a very tactical level.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
The next bit is thinking about, Okay, who are those.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Pivotal people that are going to be really helpful unlocking
next steps in my career, in the success of my
team as well, so it's not just about you and
your career, but also like the success of the work
that you're doing inside the organization. And I get people
to jot down one to five such people, and I say,
(11:16):
don't worry. Even if the relationship is like a zero
out ten right now, if they barely know you, that's
fine because they're not rushing this. You can start to
find slow ways, little ways to interact with them.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So we build up this picture.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The next stage is then managing some of the more
tricky relationships, because as well as sometimes feeling like that
person might them not know them. Sometimes people feel like
I know somebody that could help me and not in
my career, but I don't have a good relationship with them.
In fact, like I think it's a little bit uncomfortable.
So we think about what we can do on that.
But because we know which are those important relationships, we
(11:50):
focus the energy on the right ones. I then take
people through how to make a good ask inside an
organization because we have a vision, because we know what
it is that we want to achieve, We know what
sorts of asks that we want to make, whether that's
a promotionless a comment, a tool project, a case that
we want to make for the way that something should
be done. And I really encourage people, once they've got
(12:13):
some of those relationships in place, to spend time understanding
the drivers for you of those key sponsors that they
are asking us, Like what is important for those sponsors
right now? How can we position your ask in a
way that is going to really play to the interest
of the individual and their commercial interests also their human interests,
and how can we head off objections that they might have.
(12:36):
So I go into a lot more detail with that process,
so I can if you want to ask me more
about that, we can do that. But the final stage
is you kind of know your personal style, You've warmed
up a lot of key relationships, you know how to
make a case of things. The final bit then is
some of those more high stakes situations, whether that's like
the board meeting, a big presentation, a panel interview. That's
often the point at which people think they need coaching.
(12:58):
But we've started a lot earlier, and at that stage
I take time with people to help them understand the
psychology of setting those up for success. How do you
contract at the beginning of one of those meetings? How
do you introduce yourself? And how do you if it's
something where you are going to know that there's going
to be quite a challenging discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
How can you contract for things?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
When I say that, what I mean is set the
tone for how people are going to manage that conversation
and keep an eye on that during the conversation so
that you're not hit left field or if the conversation
seems like it's going to completely out of control, you
have a way to.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Bring that back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And that's my relational spiral. That's quite a lot there,
I know I thrown at you. There may be things
that you want to dive into.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, let's talk about how you can start. You know,
Let's say that somebody is someone you barely know and
you have identified them as a key stakeholder in raising
your profile within an organization, how might you are sent
to go about building that relationship? I mean, how can
(14:04):
you do that within the context of a big organization.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
So the first thing is that clients will often realize,
once we've identified the person, that they do have some
opportunities to be in the orbit of that individual. It
could be an event, it could be after a big
meeting out, could be passing in the corridor, and so
actually just being aware of those opportunities and leaning into
them rather than perhaps sort of holding back, which is
what people can often do. So taking those opportunities, that
(14:32):
low hanging fruit to start to make the effort to
have those bigger conversations. So that's the first stage. I
always say, where are your opportunities, where's your low hanging fruit.
Then typically there's going to be some sort of a
project interaction or some sort of a work type interaction
that you can have with them. It could be that
you're doing a certain project that is of interest to them,
(14:52):
and actually then being able to say, by the way,
we should line up on that because I know you're
also considering X and Y, and so you can start
to build up the opportunity if it's not already there.
To have more meaty conversations, and then ultimately as you're
starting to have more of those interactions, I always encourage
people to linger at the start of the conversation, hate
the time to say, how are you what's exciting for
(15:14):
you right now? Is it super crazy? Are you going
to get a chance to have a rest soon? And
just don't be put off if that is initially met
with a little bit of oh okay, or it's battered back,
that's just an indication of that individual right that it's
not about you. You've not failed if you've leant into
a little bit more rapport building, and slowly people find
(15:36):
ways to build up those relationships. And then I always say,
at some point, if you're really struggling to get that
common ground and you've had a few small interactions, some
point you can say, I'd love to have a bit
of a mental conversation with you and have a coffee
and pick your brains about specific career things that I
think are you know one bish I could really get
a lot of insight from you, so then, you know,
(15:58):
But I wouldn't advise people do that straight away.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, you want to warm them up first before you
leap into the ask of course, of course, all right,
Well we're going to take one more quick ad break
and then we will be back with Maya Gudka. Well,
I am back. This is one of the longer episodes
of Before Breakfast. I am talking to Maya Gudka, who
(16:24):
is an executive coach. She has worked in leadership development
with many big corporations. So we've been talking about how
to build your profile within an organization, how you might
create a contact that would help you know you move
through how you get to that ask. And then Maya,
you were talking earlier about these sort of high stake
situations like the big meeting where you're giving the big presentation,
(16:46):
and one of the things you do is work with
people about how to kind of enjoy that a bit more.
I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, So people will tell me that their worst fear
in those is being caught off God, is being are
something that they don't have an answer to. Is that
somebody else in the meeting is going to react in
a strange way and that's going to derail the whole thing.
So these are some of the fears that people have,
but being caught off God is one of the biggest ones.
(17:14):
So often once we can address that, then people can
relax into that setting a little bit more, And so
I help people have a bit of a toolkit around that.
So what are you going to say if somebody catches
you off? God like, you can just have a toolkit
for that, which could be something like that is a
great question. At the moment, I don't have all the
(17:35):
data on that. What I would say, based on what
we've already done is X, but let's we will come
back to you because I think there's a little bit
more to that one, and just knowing that you have
some ways to respond. And over the years, I remember
just seeing those who are very expert at this doing
this sort of thing, and those were often the people
had that real confidence because they weren't afraid of what
(17:58):
was being thrown at them, so they could really be
there to enjoy the discussion and enjoy the debate. So
that's one really key way that I work with people
to overcome some of that so that they can relax
into the meeting a bit more.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Just anticipate what's going to happen, and have some pocket
phrases that can even buy them a little time.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
For something, yes, and also take the pressure off of
this idea that they have to have all the answers.
I think it's really easy, and it's a real common
thing amongst my clients that perhaps at a certain stage
in their career they were relied on more for just
their knowledge, but they're now at stages where it's not
just about that, and it's often others that are going
to have the expertise. They no longer need to have
(18:40):
all the expertise, but they kind of need to be
able to marshal it and be able to have good,
live in the moment conversations, even if they're not going
to be all right or all wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, all, Eric, Well, let's pivot from that to some
of the strategies you are using to make yourself more productive.
I wonder if you have you know, one or two
twos that have been working for you lately in terms
of getting more done.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
This year, the biggest shift for me has come from
sorting my calendarly out. So I had a business coach
and she walked us through her week, her typical week,
and how she started her day a little bit later
when she was having those intense days, and I thought,
you know what, I've sort of been doing this subconsciously.
I've been angling for meetings to start at this time.
(19:25):
I've been creating space here. There's an automated tool that
does this. So if I've got a two hour coaching session,
it will schedule for me a fifteen minute break before
and office so I can quickly whizz around the block,
re energize and be ready for the next call. And
knowing that that Calendly has been set up in a
way that I'm really excited about gives me the space
(19:46):
has been super excited. I've never been one to want
to hand off my calendar to somebody else and have
somebody manage that, because in my view, your calendar is
your temple, and like you don't want to just open
it up. But knowing that I've been able to input
into that system and set it up in a way.
Don't get me wrong, there are glitches sometimes, but I'd
much rather deal with those here and there, but know
(20:06):
that the.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Rough broad structure in a typical week is what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
So that's been great, and I think it's actually enabled
that day off as well.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and I mean just using Calendly in general, I'm
sure is helpful for when you have a ton of
different people trying to schedule time or yeah, worse, moving
time around. That's sort of the bane of my existence often.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah, exactly, So I'd always been using scheduling tool that it's
impossible to do what I do multiple conversations per week
without having a scheduling tool. But what I hadn't done
was take the time to look at those calendar settings
and really set them up in a way that was
going to work for me, make sure those days looked
good to me, and make sure that they were in
some ways I guess they're compressed, and that's been really
(20:50):
helpful as well, and also exactly as you say, then
making the rescheduling process super easy so that people can
go away and do that, so I will often now
not have to have any to do with that. It's
just happening and I can see somebody's rescheduled something, and
I know it's going to be fine because I know
it's within those parameters.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And the idea of taking a little bit of time
before and after an intense call, I mean, how can
you sort of what are you doing within that to
manage your energy so that you can then be on
for the next one.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, So my default is I've got a little loop
that I can walk around, and I know that it
takes me about twelve minutes, so that's my default. I
just go around the block, clear my head, and I'm
ready for another call. I typically don't have too many
two hour blocks in a day, but if I've got
one of those, I know I'm going to need some
space either before or after. If I've got more of
like one hour call, which is another frequent time timespan
(21:42):
that I would have, I'm kind of okay to go
for a couple of those back to back. But the
main thing for me is that I've got to get
a bit of fresh air and get away from it.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It just do something different for a bit, to take
a real yeah break and move. Yes, definitely good for
managing energy. I know if you could tell us. One
of the taglines of the show is you know, taking
our days from great to awesome. What is something you've
done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Well, my Mondays have definitely gone from great to awesome
because I have found a local dance class and it's
in the evening.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I've always loved.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Dance, and this one is local at a super high standard,
and I think it's just kicks all the boxes. The
fact that it's down the road means that there's very
little chance of me missing it, and so I'm in
bed by ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But I feel like I've had a bit of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
A night out on a Monday, so that's been really good.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, what kind of dance are you doing?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
This is a Bollywood dance class, but the music that
she uses, she'll integrate lots of other types into. I
used to be in a professional dance troupe that was Bollywood,
which is this specific type of Indian dancing. But yeah,
it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And are you going to be performing anytime soon or
is it not working for that?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
This one isn't This one is a routine per week
which we then perform to the cat to our own cameras,
which we can then film. But I have performed quite
a lot in the past. I've performed in the Olympics
opening ceremony, I've performed.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
At various events.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So right now I'm kind of enjoying it for its
own sake, But who knows, now that I've got back
into it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I never know. Maybe the next Olympics you'll be performing
in that one. Yeah, exactly could happen, and this could happen. Yeah,
all right, well, Maya, why don't you let our listeners
know where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, so I have the Executive Coach podcast. If you
just type in the Executive Coach podcast, you should be
able to find me. And then if you're interested in
the career stuff, I have a career blind spots checklist
that you can down overrom my website and that is Maya.
Ma Ya goodkagu DKA dot com. You can head over
(23:45):
there and get hold of that.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
All right. Well, I'm sure we all have some career
blind spots that we should be aware of and would
be good to figure out. So Maya, thank you so
much for joining us, and thank you to everyone for listening.
I welcome feedback on these longer episodes or any ideas
or topics you would like to see me discuss on
before breakfast, and as always, you can reach me at
(24:08):
Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. So in the meantime,
this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making
the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach
(24:30):
me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast
is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia,
please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Before Breakfast News
Host
Laura Vanderkam
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