It Could Happen Here Weekly 236

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let
you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
of the week that just happened is here in one
convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
there's going to be nothing new here for you, But
you can make your own decisions.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Mia. Are you excited today to learn about Gregory hay Bno.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
You know, I would describe myself going into this as
an amateur but enthusiast Greg Bovino hater. I am very
familiar with his work in Chicago. I'm familiar with his
work in Minneapolis. I am less familiar with his other work.
I'm excited to have a higher tier of hater of
one of the worst people we've ever had.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, really a gem of the American law enforcement system.
We're gonna talk mostly today about Greg Bavino's post Korea pivot,
which seems mostly to be asking to have his whole
career back, but we can talk a little bit about
his previous career work. When he was down here, he
was in ib he was in El Centro, who was
in blythe for a while, but last week Mia he

(01:14):
was in Portugal. Oh boy, yeah, do you want to
guess why?

Speaker 5 (01:19):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Okay, going through my by by history of Portugal, it's
a country that had a left wing military coup that
didn't go far enough by which they never quite got
rid of all the fascists.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, a country that notably has a long history of fascism. Yes,
which is where he was. Actually he was there in
a remigration summit.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Oh no, yeah, Like, oh so.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'm just going to use the conference's own website here.
It is a set fiscal, cultural, economic, social, political, and
logistical policies whose objective is to prevent population and replacement
through the reversal of migratory flows. There's nothing there about
undocumented people. There's nothing there about visas, right, because this

(02:10):
isn't about that. This is about race and ethnicity and
removing people who do not line up with what you
consider to be the national race.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, this is this is the method cleansing campaign.

Speaker 6 (02:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
I mean, obviously there's like a lot of parallels in
the history of all of these countries, but like, yeah,
I think if you if you look at the most
immediate one. It's oh, this is like the shit the
Nazis were talking about doing. Well, they were building the
concentration camps with like Jewish people, right, is that they
were going to like deport them all to Israel or whatever. Yeah,
we'll keep moving them east and at the very least

(02:45):
this is an ethnic cleansing plan.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, that's the explicit goal, right that there is not
mention in that definition of undocumented people, even the way
that they have bea refers to refer to it as
illegal aliens, a term he uses a lot, and think
he sometimes uses it in quite elastic fashion. But even
in this case, that is not what this conference is about. No, yeah,

(03:07):
this is very much a conference about a white Europe.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
It was organized by Martin Selner. Selmer is a neo
Nazi who famously exchanged emails with Brenton tarrent at a
christ Church shooter.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Oh great.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah. Baffino spoke about this at the conference, and he
said that they hadn't met in person before, but after
talking for a little while, they found they were out
on the same sheet of music.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Incredible.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, you're going to google people men like he googled
Martin Selner, And the first thing that comes up is
that he emailed Brenton Tarrant unless I guess that's not
an issue. Yeah right, judging by the general company he kept,
I don't think that's an issue because he's joining like
like a Spanish Vox party of their after day there
at AfD, the German fire right party. Racist from all

(03:56):
over Europe.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
We also saw the sort of racist in America who
I would describe as like fancy racists, the race science guys.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
Right.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
Oh, they're kind of like the Bret people.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, it is it those guys?

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Or is it the kind of newer gen like tech
fascist people. So there's overlap between them. No, it's like
the VDA kind of tendency. Yeah, no, should we should
we explain with the vdair Yeah, a little bit, go ahead,
may yeah take it.

Speaker 7 (04:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Well, I was just gonna say, at some point we're
gonna have molly On. I am a I am what
you would call a I guess technically a professional Nazi
identifier or whatever, but I'm like a low level one,
and everyone else in this network is a very high
level one. So we'll probably have molly On at some
point to like actually really go into vdair and like

(04:47):
that kind of shit.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
But yeah, it's broadly speaking, it's Peter Brimolo's anti immigration website.
We're not talking about anti immigration terms and discussions about
what visa is we should give right, we're talking about
like white nationalism.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, these are like Nazi Nazis. These are people that, yeah,
you know, like I don't think the US has ever
really had what in Europe is called like the Courton Senataire,
which is supposed to separate out like the mainstream right
wing parties from like the Nazis, Like we've never had that.
So Vidare has been kind of more in anti immigration circles.
But it's also like those are people that you know,

(05:27):
even you're kind of like really really far right, like
people on the radio or politicians don't associate with because
they are fairly open Nazis.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, there was some stuff that trace back to Vida
in Agenda forty seven. I remember thinking like this ain't good. Yeah,
Vida just for people who like have lived a blessed
life and don't know refers to Virginia Dare, who is
I believe the first white child or the first child,
first girl maybe exploitafore. But I think as the first

(06:00):
white child born in the United States as settlers, one
of the onth of Roanoke people, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Which is I don't know, likee, maybe you motherfuckers could
have made like the Rono people and disappeared, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
that would be nice. Unfortunately, Mia, No, Unfortunately they didn't
and they didn't, unfortunately assimilate into indigenous cultures the way
that the Rono people almost certainly did. Yes, instead, Yeah,

(06:25):
half a millennial long campaign of terror and bloodshed.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, it's interesting to see Bevino. I guess, like aligning
with these European anti migration discussion is different. It's not
really dealing so much in undocumented people. It's dealing with
people under various legal statuses. I'm not saying there aren't
undocumented people in Europe. There are, but the discussion there
has moved past that in a toxic way, in a

(06:52):
way that it's like, we need to remove these people
even though they do have like legal documentation that allows
them to be here. If the state says you're cooler,
you're not cool, Like that's not my concern. Yeah, but
it's still alarming to see the bigotry move past even that, right,
like without the pretense of enforcing the law. Yeah, and

(07:14):
just simply being about removing people who we don't think
we want to live next to because they're not white.

Speaker 8 (07:19):
You know.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
One of the groups that you talked about there, like
the AfD in Germany, like this has been happening for
like a long time, but one of their like slogans
or is remove kabab. Yeah right, and that's just literally
like remove all Turkish people from the country. Yeah, And
the AfD wants to do this. There are documents that
have leaked from them that are them planning at conferences
to Okay, this is how we're going to remove the
not white people, just how we're going to remove the

(07:40):
Jewish people. This is not even like the pretense of
anything else do with the law. This is just like
we are the original Nazis. We want to do ethnic
cleansing against not white people. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Most of the people at the conference are peddling great
replacement shit, right and they yea, they genuinely believe that
is something that exists and that they can reverse it.
At the conference, Beveno gave an interview. I found it
on a website called bras Info ther eiz H. It's
a Breton and French language website. It's also published I
saw on a couple of other substacks, so I wonder

(08:16):
if it was a pool interview that he gave that
very people translated it. I should note that I translated
it from French. I don't think Bavino speaks French, so
I'm imagining they translated it from English to French. And
there is an editor's note that says the editor.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Was an AI.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Oh great, So any of the quotations here, we can't
attribute them directly, right, Like, yeah, we can't assume that
those are the words he said in English because it's
been through three layers of bullshit. So I understand that
going in. Nonetheless, I think it's a very interesting insight
into how Greg Bavino sees the world. And what's interesting

(08:57):
about that is, like Greg Leavina was very popular in
border patrol. He was, by the standards of the patrol,
a good border patrol agent, right, He was liked, and
I don't think he developed these opinions in a few
months since he retired. No, And like a lot of
the way he talks is not dissimilar to the way

(09:17):
Border patrol agents talk among themselves, right, I think that, Like,
what is interesting about this is not like Greg Bavino
is essentially sharing a platform and agreeing with Nazis. It
is after twenty five, twenty six years, in more than
ninety thirty years in the Border patrol, this is what
the Border Patrol formed him into. Yeah, Because the point

(09:41):
I want to make here is this shit is not
something we can easily reform. This is not something we
can train if this country gets through this and in
twenty twenty eight, yes we have another election. God, we
can't fucking let this keep happening. Right, The tool that

(10:01):
Baveno was deploying in Minneapolis, in Chicago, in Charlotte and
all these other cities in Los Angeles.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Right, yeah, Memphis, New Orleans Lake, Yeah, like all over
the country. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, it is a tool that Democrats built as well
as Republicans. And the place he's at, he got to
with eight years working under Barack Obama, with four years
working under under Joe Biden. Like, we need to understand
what we are diverting a fire hose of money towards

(10:36):
with the Border patrol, Right, And I guess we can
just start with where Greg Bavino started, which was comparing
himself to Nazi general Erwin Rommel. Great, yeah, right at
the gate. He also compared hisself to Pat and T. Lawrence,
you know, like historically. It makes you wonder. Yeah, I
think he probably has some kind of clean Vermarke thing

(10:56):
going on in his head where they're just soldiers and
he can respect of them for their tactical prowess, you know,
like mm hmm, he says, quote, they grasped the overall
strategy where others in government or in the political class
did not see it or refuse to see it. Strategic
expertise combined with field command, especially in chaotic exposed events,
is very rare. I also listened to a couple of

(11:17):
podcasts that Beveno did with a former Border Patrol agent
who used to work in San Diego sector, and you
hit it a lot right to talk about battle, talk
about soldiers, but Vino sees himself as like a general
on border patrol, as his soldiers fighting in a war. Yeah,
that's not what they do. Oh, clearly they see it

(11:39):
as that. I understand why, because like they've they've got
around the country generating so much ill will that. Yeah,
everywhere they go, people fucking hate them.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Your actual job, and the only thing we saw in
Chicago is dragging screaming babies out of their fucking homes
and putting them in camps. Yeah, I think this is
This is going back to the thing you're talking about
earlier about this not being something that's reformable. Is that, Yeah,
that task is what Border patrol was built for. That's
what it was doing under all of these administrations, just

(12:08):
fucking dragging people screaming from their homes in the dark
of the night. And like, the only way you can
get people to do that is by creating a crucible
that creates Nazis.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
You can't have compassion for the people whose families you're
tearing apart, right, Like, Yeah, people should read gent Budd's
book if they want to know what going through Borderperl
Academy is. Like this give a trigger warning that gen
was sexually assaulted and and writes about that Border patrol
has a very high rate of sexual assault. Right, Border
patrol is ninety five percent male. I have seen people

(12:41):
in Border Patrol who do have compassion, and then I
have not seen them anymore. Like it drives those people away.
They have a high drop out rate, And I think
there are people who genuinely believe that what they will
do is keep their community safe and rescue people who
get stuck crossing the border in the desert, adjudicate them

(13:01):
a fair process, deliver them to a fair process, and
they will do the best they can. I don't see
those people remain in the patrol for very long, right,
Like I interact with obviously, Like the stance to this
podcast is that you should remain silent and not talk
to cops, But like I interact with more patrol agents
more often than most people do. Right, that it's the
nature of my job and the place I live and

(13:21):
the places I go. And like I think these days
are recruiting, they're doing They're getting a lot of people
who are coming into starting like this.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, but I don't think that's that's always been the case.
Like I understand that there are people also in communities
along the border, whether it's very little economic opportunity and
then this is the only chance they have. But I
see those people get spat out.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Like you said, Meir, if you are going to train
people to tear families apart, then you have to train
them to hate, and I think that is what we
see in this right, Like it's really interesting. But Vino
tells his own story a little bit, and he tells
this his own story on this podcast I listen to
as well. He starts with operation don't let Them Ride.

(13:59):
Familiar with operation don't let him Ride? No, Okay, So
you have to go all the way back to twenty ten.
Oh god, in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Little tiny baby Mia, Yeah, yeah, thirteen year old Miya.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh god, fuck me.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
I feel old.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
I was in grad school and Greg Bavino, I think
he's Bliz the Blithe station at that time. And they
do this operation at a bus station in Nevada. It
lasts for sixty minutes, it gets called off. The Nevada
Senator is pissed off about it. Their goal, they said,

(14:38):
was to apprehend traffickers and to rescue people who have
been trafficked or smuggled. Right in a community meeting which
was convened because the whole Latino community in Las Vegas
was like the fuck right. This internal enforcement was not
a common thing at the time. Paul Beeson, who was
chief Agent of the UMA sector at the time, said,

(14:59):
quote in that short period of time, we did not
apprehend anybody we felt was actively engaged in alien smuggling.
We did not encounter any human trafficking victims. So to me,
didn't sound like a like a wind Yeah wait.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
So so like they were just rounding people up at
bus stops. Correct, they went to a bus like a
bus stepo station. Yeah, yeah, like one of the big
bus yeah yeah, and they just rounded people up and.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, exactly. So his interview with this former border patrol agent,
he said that they apprehended more than one alien per
minute of the operation.

Speaker 8 (15:32):
That was called Operation Don't Let Him Ride. And that
operation was set for about three days. It lasted sixty minutes.
But the interesting thing is we called more aliens than
there were minutes in the operation. It was a very
successful operations, very successful. Yes, Sir Harry Reid called Hussein

(15:56):
Obama and had that shut down immediately. But we never
got that. We never forgot the vast amount of criminals
that we apprehended in twenty ten on those bus checks
in Las Vegas, and the pervasive problem even then that
we solve a lot of that problem came in under
Barack Hussein Obama as well as Bill Ry Clinton.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
I want to know the newspapers at the time reported
a number that was more than two dozen. Technically, let's
say the operation lasted sixty minutes, that is more than
two dozen. It would be unusual to report a number
of sixty by saying more than two dozen. Right. What
is more interesting to me is that this operation was
supposed to find people who had been trafficked to people

(16:39):
who were trafficking, and it failed. Greg Baveno seems to
have seen it as a success because it just found people, right,
people who were undocumented, people who were otherwise in infraction
of immigration laws, but who were not involved in trafficking.
Because for him, it seems like the goal was slightly different,

(17:02):
and therefore the criteria for success are slightly different, right,
And this kind of fits into this narrative of him,
so like I can see what he it is, especially
in the context of him talking to the Remigration conference.
For him, it's a win, but for the goals of
the border patrol at that time, it's not. So he
cites this at the beginning of his journeyed where he

(17:23):
is right as a guy they went to for massive
surges of border patrol agents into cities tearing families apart.
And I think if we see it the way he
sees it, then we can see why he sees it
as a success. But Vino, in his early career had
worked a lot in the Alcentro sector, right, and ev
actually became chief patrol agent the l Centro sector. He

(17:44):
was in Bortac for a while. I've read a Defense
University paper that interviewed him. He was in Honduras with
Bortac training border patrol there.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Oh Jesus Christ. Yeah, I mean everyone should read Empire
of Borders. Everyone should read Border Patrol Nation.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
But like the DHS has done this for years, right,
funded armed and equipped and trained border patrol units all
over the Americas, because that is how America externalizes its border.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah, in a very similar way to the way Europe
does it with Frantics. And you know, like it deals
like up with Godarthian and the successive governments and Libya
and stuff like that. Yes, and the people they're training there,
it's like school the Americas share just like actual monsters.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like yeah, I mean the Sally Haydensburg My Third Time
We Drowned is one of the more heartbreaking books. It's
available for a human to read. But like, if you
want to know about the fucked up stuff Europe's doing
in Libya, it's a good book. Yeah, but yes, you're
it moves the violence away from the metropolitan, right, it
moves it further. I've seen this from my own eyes, right,

(18:44):
I've seen what happens in Panama, not necessarily but the
actions of any border patrols there, but just by forcing
people to take that route. Like, I've seen how the
externalization of our borders kills people. And I have seen
how the Biden administration funded deportations of people who are
I can't find any criminal record for. And I have
seen literally babies taken out of people's hands. Yea, and

(19:07):
they were deporting young men at that point. But I look,
I've literally watched families torn apart right there, just after
crossing the Darrying Gap. And it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yea.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Talking of heartbreaking, we haven't done ad pivot.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Oh boy, hopefully these product services will fix your heartbreak.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, oh god, Yeah, here's an advert for whiskey. Okay,
we are back. So one of the things Bavino did
a light in this into you is he sort to

(19:43):
kind of distinguish himself from what he calls the status
quo bureaucrats. He's not wrong that, like one of the
roles of a chief in a sector is to speak
to the press. Right. He seems to be very upset
that Roddy Scott and Tom Homan didn't speak to the
press when they art to these big operations. He says,
quote CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott and borders are Tom Hoeman

(20:06):
not only had no experience was full enforcement of migration laws,
but refused to speak public ly during operations. Their reluctance
triggered the unique situation I mentioned above, and neither sought
nor asked to become the public faith of the operation.
But for this type of operation there can only be one.
The responsibility fell to me. When you listen to this
interviews he did when he was in the patrol, he

(20:26):
wasn't as critical of his leadership as he is now. Yeah,
probably for very obvious reasons. But like the let down
by leadership thing is is a thing. We've seen this
on the right so many times, right.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, that's the classic backstem, this employed by one Adolf Hitler.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like and in many cases thereafter,
And he kind of seeks in this too to differentiate
field agents from like what I guess what he called
status quote bureaucrats. Right, and he is genuinely very popular
among field agents, Like and he did like grow through
the border Patrol, right, Like he's not a guy who

(21:03):
came from somewhere else, Like he has a thirty year career.
He's done like mountain interdiction stuff down in the Hookumber wilderness.
Like he's he's definitely like had his boots on the ground.
I think they like that, And I think for him
that gives him like like the he feels like he
speaks for the border Patrol and that like these people

(21:23):
who are like bureaucrats are what is constraining him and
his guys from doing what they want to do. And
like it's really interesting to see determines how he describes
what they want to do.

Speaker 6 (21:34):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
He called the withdrawal from Minneapolis a surrender. He called
protesters the opposition. In this podcast I listened to, he
calls protesters pro fascist, which is very given the company
he keeps his fucking ridiculous, Like the.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Other people at that conference can't be happy with that. Yeah,
that's the thing right, where are the fascists down?

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah, but they're not hiding it. Like it's very interesting
to see him like not willing to kind of surrender
that term, you know what I mean, like to not
quite say it at the same time as like, yeah, yeah,
there are other people like conference you are like, no,
where the fact, what are you talking about? They're not
profascially say haters Like he's still like one step removed

(22:16):
from joining his buddies there. Another thing I found interesting
was he says what the patrol is often referred to
as quote the Federal Law Enforcement Marine Corps.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
What does anyone say that I've not heard them say that? Oh,
I what, I've never heard that.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
It's a very strange. I'm guessing what he's referring to
is like the Marine Corps has these expeditionary units which
can deploy very quickly to conflict. Though it's like we
sort in I ran right, like yeah, and I'm guessing
that's what he means, Like they're the hit squad.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Yeah, they're they're the like, oh my god, we found
like four children sleeping in a bedroom. We have to go,
we have to go, sender like tactical squad. After them. Yeah,
there are there are first line of defense against against
tiny babies. Yeah, and against the Americans exercising their First
Amendment rights.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
When people were in the street in Portland, it was
border patrol. They said, yep, it was poor attack.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah. Yeah, right, they do have something of a history
of being the federal government's hit squad.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
When they want to stamp on Americans, they do send
the border patrol. Interestingly, he went on to cite the
old miss Riot. Even know the old miss Riot.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
It sounds vaguely familiar, but I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean you can surmise what's going to happen, right,
it's a university in the South.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
What happens is that James Meredith, a black man, had
attempted to register at the school several times. He had
been prevented by racists, including the governor, and at one
point JFK sent Border patrol agents along with federal I
think they were cross sworn as marshalls, maybe to accompany
him to register. They ended up surrounded in the lyceum.

(23:57):
Twenty eight federal agents were shot.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Jesus. Yeah, this is like they had a fucking fight
about it. Like two of the people surrounded the lyceum
were killed. You know, I'm not sure I've ever in
my entire life seen a government deployment and thought you
should have sent the national Guard. But like, yeah, I
guess you should have sent the national Guard Jesus. Yeah,
but really, I guess love shooting beds to opposed integration.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, like in this case, they sent the regular ass
army to come get him out.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
I think this was the era when they felt like
national guides in the South were not entirely trustworthy.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well, yeah, you'd have to do a Trump style like
we're sending the fucking like California.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
National Mississippi or whatever.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, they normally send like one of those QRSD eighty
second Airborn or something like that.

Speaker 6 (24:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Wow, I can't believe I'm in a position where I
support the deployment of US troops against America.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I know, I know, it's it's a wild scenario.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
I guess it's like because they're trying to do a lynching.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
So yeah, like in that case, yeah, maybe stop the lynching.
But it's a really interesting choice because he talked He's
talking about how border patrolls, you know, like they had
this long history of doing this, and again he's not wrong.
And I guess maybe the on miss thing plays a
part in their mythos because they were fighting against the racists.
I can see why they would want to hold on

(25:25):
to that. It's interesting to see him doing that at
the racist conference.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Yeah, it's like, oh, no, no, no, we are a different
kind of racist. We are California. We're racist. We are
we are not like the primitive southern racist. We have
advanceder level of racism too.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah. Like, and he's very popular amongst them, Like, we're
a different kind of racist racists, right, Like the vida tendency.
Is that like quote unquote scientific racists.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
Yeah. And but by the way, I want to clarify
before I get screamed that the thing I just said
was like his perspective, not mine. Jesus fuck these people,
yeah yeah, all of them.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Please don't clip near out of context. So, like,
he then goes on after he's expended this to explain
like his history of migration. He says that around in
the year two thousand, quote unquote, the floodgates open. His
basic thesis is summed up in his statement from twenty
to twenty twenty six. Are borders were nothing but speed bumps.

(26:23):
Illegals and smugglers need it. Once they cross the border,
they're virtually saved from any consequences.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
A couple of.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Things there that obviously includes Trump's first term and part
of the second term. Amnasia about Trump having a first
term seeds to be quite a common issue on the right.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
It's really astonishing and the left too. I don't know.
I'm either more and more certain certain certain people who
will go unmentioned, who were working for Blackwater under the
first Trump administration.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, it's very interesting to see this narrative, but again
not an uncommon one. Ye, right, Like he talks about
how he wrote a paper called Illegal Aliens Detraction Natural Resources.
So he has two master's degrees. One is from the
National Defense University, and I'm not sure if that's his
second master's thesis, which it would be. I'd be interested
to read it, but I haven't been able to find it,

(27:12):
and I'm not sure NDU makes masters stuff public, and
I think generally how it works is you have to
opt to make it public. Like I'm interested to know,
is this kind of eco nativism? Is it like carrying
capacity shit?

Speaker 4 (27:24):
Like what, Yeah. It kind of the other thing it
kind of reminds me is like you get like you
get this from like Scandinavian racists where they're like they
have this line about the welfare state, where like the
welfare stays of fire and you can only have so
many people huddled around the fire.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, And it's like, oh, yeah, well, god, we see
this lean like we saw a lot from Mike Lee
right when he was attempting another pathetic excuse for selling
off our public lands. Like Lee was saying, how like
so much of our willness areas is destroyed by migrants,
so we have to destroy them and sell them to
protect them. The logic of Mike Lee is unknowable. But

(27:59):
I'm to read that if anyone, if he has anyone
is like a library Ninjia, get in touch. I'd love
to uh, I'd love to find that out. He spends
a great deal of time explaining his one hundred million number,
and he refers to these people as illegal aliens right
that he contrasts this with the number of twenty million.

(28:20):
He says that comes from Pew research, and he says
that it hasn't changed since the nineteen seventies. That is
not a statistic which is played out in Pew's published documents.
I'm looking here at a twenty twenty three paper from Pew.
The number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States nineteen
ninety three point five million, twenty eight point six twenty

(28:43):
fifteen to eleven point zero thanks Obama, and up to
fourteen million in twenty twenty three. He claims to spend
twenty since the nineteen seventies. Obviously he's not giving a
source here, but he claims Pugh has said that, and
that's not what I've found from Pew. He sort of
arrives at his towndred million dollar number. First, he said
he was looking for some stuff from investment bank dere Stearns.

(29:04):
And what he was looking at, why, yeah, it's very strange.
He then goes on to give the only hard statistics
he gives, and if he's talking about Charlotte, North Carolina here,
when they were doing Operation Charlotte's Web estimates indicated that
thirty percent or more of commuters who are no longer traveling,
This means at least thirty percent of them were most
likely illegal immigrants. This is based on traffic delays he's

(29:26):
getting the amount of time people spending traffic jet like
he's going on Google Maps. This is a massive logical leap.
He then says that's about a quarter of Charlotte commuters
thirty percent, not a quarter. And this figure, you guessed,
it fits perfectly with the total of one hundred million
out of four hundred and twenty million people in the
United States, an estimate that one hundred million are illegal immigrants,

(29:47):
same as the observation for children absent from Charlotte schools,
more than thirty percent of students were missing. These were,
of course, illegal children or children of illegal immigrants. The
category of illegal children. Fascinating choice of words. Oh god,
I'm guessing he's talking about like undocumented kids or kids
whose parents are ind documents his separate categories there. But like,

(30:09):
there are many reasons. I don't think we have to
explain this to listeners. Why why some people might not
have wanted to be out and about or at school
when board patrol and dragging people out of cars and
smashing their windows.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Yeah, this is an extremely common thing, which is like.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, like not wanting to die.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
I want to point this out too, Like they shot
like American citizens. Not not that it's like worse to
shoot an American citizen than a non citizen, but like,
but they did that. Everyone everyone knew that they had
done that. Yeah, Like they.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Did that in Chicago. Yeah, like, yeah, they did in Chicago.
They were going to go do it again in Minneapolis.
Like yeah, obviously they shot protesters.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
They also just shot random people like who they were like,
oh you're non white, fuck you right, Like it's like
that kind of shit.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Ye, people who got in most of the instance we've
seen that what they have said is a person tried
to ram them with their car, and most of the
times we have seen video evidence, it certainly doesn't look
like that to me.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
No.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, yeah, this idea of thirty percent of students, are
there foreign documented people, that's ludicrous. They were in Charlotte,
like middle to late November. There's a time when Americans
often travel, don't go to school. Right, They have this
Thanksgiving thing here and people like to enjoy time with
their families. He then goes on to talk about the

(31:32):
differences between US and Europe. There's a phrase here that
I want to read again. I want you to understand
that this is translated twice uncontrolled immigration to the United
States now post is the greatest threat to our culture
in our very existence. This goes for you in Europe too,
Even when we managed to get past these cumbers in
bureaucrats and politicians, the grassroots will take care of it

(31:55):
for us. The precise tactics for removing those who need
to be removed may take different forms in Europe and
the United States. The grassroots will take care of it
for us is between m dashes. I don't know if
he means the grassroots will vote them out. Otherwise that
seems like a program, right.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Like, yeah, that's that's not that's not good. Yeah, yeah,
that just seems like an ethnic Clenson campaign conducted by people.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I want to be like, like, but because that's a
really scary concept, right like yeah, but also.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Yeah, it's an AI translation that was then translated by you.
I don't know, I don't know how your French is these.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Days, Like French is fine, but like, uh, yeah, I
forget who said all translation is an act of violence?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
But yeah, like humans doing translation is an act of violence.
AI doing translations is like the fucking future terminator. Yeah,
the machines have killed everyone.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Like yeah, like a lot of really is lost in translation.
In between the M dashes, the French is labas populai sanchatier.
So yeah, come at me, French speakers. Let me know
if you think there's a better translation for that. He
then goes on to try and like not blame Trump,
which is interesting, said, I don't believe Trump has abandoned

(33:13):
his campaign promise. I believe that his advisors do not
bring him back to reality on the ground, And then
at skips little here. If I had to do it again,
I would have briefed Trump directly several times, rather than
relying on this inner circle who might have interests elsewhere.
Trump is the best president I've ever worked for. I
believe he will return to that campaign promise soon. Again,
it's kind of a fatty thing, right, Like, it wasn't
the leader. It wasn't the dear leader. It was some

(33:35):
people who failed to reflect the dear leader's thought. Yeah,
it's very interesting to see him speaking so clearly this way,
Like there's two ways he could be going with this.
He could be angling for his job back, to be clear, right,
The reason we don't have Norman Baviino anymore, in my opinion,
is that after Ice and then CBP both murdered US

(33:57):
citizens and the plain light of day on camera and
then took to the television to lie about those US
citizens in the hours after they murdered them. They became
too toxic for even the Trump administration to touch.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yeah, they were staggeringly unpopular. Everyone fucking hated them.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, you literally lost like the old guys with the
NRA hats at the gun range who I sometimes talked to, like.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
Yeah, fucking again, I Kiki coming back to, Like they
lost fucking Kurt Warner, who like is like a quarterback
who has never once talked about politics ever and is
like like made like a documentary that was like a
bunch about like his like faith journey, right, and they
like when when when Kurt Warner is being like, hey,

(34:43):
what the fuck? Yeah, you've lost your You're losing the
conservative football guys.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, I mean you shoot a white man on his
knees in the street in the back, Yeah, while you're
beating them up. Yeah, that's how you lose Americans.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, that's how you lose barstool Like it's yeah, hideous.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, he kind of has two choices, right, Like he
can and you can go into the consulting world. He
can go into the grifting world right and just become
like a podcast grifter, Welcome to the club. Or he
can go into politics. And I wonder which, like he's
kind of left two of those pathways open, right, like

(35:21):
he can kind of yeah, podcast grifter or politics.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Well, and you can do both now too. I guess
that's true. Yeah, yeah, ce Ce the head of the
FBI too much.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
It was too much for Dan Bongino. He retired and
returned to the.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
True I guess, I guess, I guess. I guess it's
like our noble like Health and Human Services secretary the
latest shit eating Kennedy or whatever, like you can still
do that shit.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
But yeah, the serial podcast guests, I just want to
come back to, like we need to reflect on this now, right,
like we're doing primaries for the midterms right now. The
Democrats have doubled down on same old shit almost everywhere
across the country. We have seen some better candidates, right,
but I understand that the pathway to a beautiful life

(36:05):
is not through the Democratic Party. But if they are
incapable of seeing that this isn't something that we can reform,
if they do what Biden did in twenty twenty, which
is like, oh, they just need more money. Yeah, this
ratchet will continue to only move in one direction, which
is towards a brutalization of more people.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
Yeah, just on a very basic level, like, having a
massive institutional apparatus that produces Nazis and gives them the
authority to do the thing that the Nazis want to
do is not a way that any kind of democracy
can survive. Yeah, and that's what we've seen.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
To paraphrase, we have created an entity which you can
exempt from the law in order to enforce it. Yeah,
we can't keep up with that. And like, now is
a moment I guess that demands bravery and from the Democrats,
I've seen cowardice. Yeah, and if they continue to be
cowards right now, we're going to go so far down

(37:01):
this path there's no coming back. Yeah. And I don't
fucking know, but I think that's something we really need
to reflect on.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah. We have twenty thousand Bovenos, Yeah, who we've given
guns and training and authority to.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, and who we've allowed to kill people in our
streets and not face accountability.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Right.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, Like I am not a County attorney appreciated generally,
but like it makes me bik to see that Hennepin
County attorney go after the ice agent who shot someone
through their front door and they lied about it. Like
if the liberal democracy can't do any of that kind
of stuff, then it's worthless. It doesn't mean anything anymore.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yeah, and it will and it won't be a democracy afterwards. Right, Yeah,
diet made its own bed to die on. There's examples
of this fucking everywhere, right, but like, yeah, the Biden
administration was tragedy is farce of like Ende promoting Pinochet. Yeah,
that's the thing. That's the thing that he did. He
promoted Pinochet, right, Yeah, Like if you don't get rid

(38:05):
of the people who want to fucking kill you and
you instead give them more power, they're going to fucking
kill you.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, And like what Biden tried to They tried pretty
hard to retire Bavino because he would talk a lot
about the situation at the border and Biden administration, but
they didn't.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
No, they didn't. And then also like they made more
of them.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, and also they threw as much money, like the
money that your kid doesn't get for free meals. It's
because Border Patrol has black Hawks. Like yeah, yeah, that
was a heartwarming and inspiring episode of It could Happen
Here podcast about things falling apart.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Yeah, but okay, we beat the Nazis once, we can
do it again.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, and Minneapolis beat these people. That's the other thing, right,
Like they won. Yeah, they came out and they stood
together as a community. They didn't focus on trivial bullshit
that divides them. They looked out for one another. The
Border Patrol thought they were in a battle, and if
they were in a battle, then they did lose it.
They surrendered, right.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Yeah, And like that's that's also not to say that
they aren't still like horrifying shit happening there, right, Like
there's still braids going on.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
You're absolutely correct, Yeah, and that like people aren't dealing
with the many other ills of capitalism in the distance
that the state it is today. But like, yeah, they
were not able to make those people cower in fear. Yeah,
and that has shown the rest of the country how
brave we can be together. And I just don't think
we should forget that.

Speaker 9 (39:31):
Yeah, isis alm Shinrikiu and Christian Signers are at first glance,
these movements appear to have almost nothing in common. One

(39:54):
is transnational but territorially weakened Tarror Network most active into
twenty and twenty tens. One was a fringe Japanese doomsday
cult from the nineties, and one remains a powerful political
movement embedded in the heart of the US, the world's
premier imperialist power. The ideologies may be irreconcilable, their enemies

(40:15):
may be different, and their methods even may vary from
gorilla warfare to political lobbying, and yet they have more
in common than meets the eye. Welcome toket happen here.
I'm Andrew's age or andrewsm on YouTube, and I'm joined
today by Garrison Davis. Hello, Welcome, Welcome. So my goal

(40:36):
is to try and understand these movements through the lens
of ideological total itself, which was a specific theoretical framework
developed by Robert J. Lifton to identify the outcome of
a successful thought reform process, characterized by Denis Jewish and
Tim Walforth in on the Edge as a quote mode
of absolute conviction, which embeds ideas so deeply in people

(41:00):
heads that they grow inoculated against doubt. Ideas cease to
be provisional theories about the world and instead become secret
convictions dependent on the word of how old authorities for
their validation rather than evidence quote. Lifton saw the potential
for the emergence of ideological totalism within everyone, but he

(41:21):
noted quo totalistic convictions are most likely to occur with
those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and
most ambitious or messianic in their claims, whether religious, political,
or scientific. The eight criteria that he identified for thought
reform were milieu control, which is the control of communication

(41:42):
and information within the environment. Mystical manipulation, which is the
orchestrating of spontaneous events to save the group's message. The
demand for purity, which divides the world into black and white,
good and evil categories. The cult of confession, which pushes
members to confess past sins, personal feelings to the group.
The secret science, which elevates the group's dogma to an

(42:04):
unquestionable truth, loading the language, which is using jargon or
cliches to minimize critical thinking, doctrine over a person which
subordinates individual experiences and identity to the group's beliefs, and finally,
the dispensing of existence, declaring that only those in the
group have the right to exist. Now, not all of

(42:25):
these factors may be at play for each of these
specific movements that I would have mentioned, but we still
see the outcome of this ideological totalism in each of
these movements, to very extent, the systematic erosion of individual
autonomy in favor of an unassailable authority. Whether we're speaking

(42:45):
about ISIS or Armstriakio, or Christian Zionism within the evangelical movement,
or in any other case, we will see how movements
replace individual identity with a collective prograum personae loaded language
and thought terminating cliches make dissent literally unthinkable where the

(43:06):
enemy other is manufactured, and where power is concentrated so
tightly that the leader or the dogma becomes the only
source of truth. So the foundation of ideological totalism is
the destruction of nuance. To build a cohesive US and them,
they must be clearly defined and definitionally polarized. First comes

(43:28):
the categorization, where the complexity of human identity is reduced
into a single non negotiable trait, be it religion or
nationality or ideology. And then comes to humanization, which is
stripping the other of human qualities, transforming them from a
person into a threat, impure, an infidel, and obstacle. And finally,

(43:49):
there's enclosure, which creates social or psychological walls that prevent
the US from interacting with them. This ensures the only
information the group receives is that of the the others
perceived malice. In the context of groups like Isis, the
US versus Them engine is expressed both ideologically and through
physical violence. By committing acts of terror, the group forces

(44:11):
the rest of the world to recognize their boundary. There's
no cross contamination to be had with the infidel world,
no middle ground. You're either a part of their struggle
for a global caliphate or you're an enemy to be eradicated,
whether you consider yourself a Muslim or anything else. With armsheriki,

(44:31):
the cults us versus Them engine operated through isolation in
communes and the severigin of external ties. Them was defined
as the corrupted world or the spiritually dead, and the
group sought purity and enlightenment, so they targeted the individuals
existing social networks, family friends, mainstream society, labeling them as
sources of contamination by cutting off the member from the

(44:55):
outside world. The cult en showed that the only reality
that existed was the one provided by the leader. Were
the political religious Christian Zionists. The US versus Them engine
is built through a historical and eschatological narrative that sees
the entire secular world as enemies to the apocalyptic ambitions
of Christ's return. They are frequently warned to avoid worldly

(45:18):
influences temptations from the devil that might skew them from
the righteous path. The other in all these cases is
successfully stripped of their humanity. The destruction of the them
becomes a logical necessity for the survival of the US,
and the isolation ensures the group's total control over an

(45:39):
individual's interpretation of reality.

Speaker 10 (45:42):
Interesting how all these various cultish elements build on or
use the techniques written about by Karl Schmidt the frind
enemy distinction, and how like creating groups like this, you know,
you have to choose like a border point, to choose
the point that determines what we are and what our
enemy is. And then in order to keep your group
active or like safety, that border has to be moved

(46:05):
has to always be like like pushing it can't actually
stay at the same point. And then you see that
movement with all these groups, right, they have this like
millenari neist like apocalyptic focus, but they're still like moving
towards this like larger enemy population.

Speaker 9 (46:18):
Yeah, I mean you see it in like I mentioned,
Isis has erected this barrier that separates them even from
Muslims who may share some of their other religious convictions
but do not share their political ambitions. Yeah, you see
what the evangelical movement, which distinguishes themselves from other Christian

(46:39):
sects as being heretical or not fully committed to the wood,
or have gone astray in some way.

Speaker 10 (46:46):
Yeah, I mean you can see that with the evangelical
leaders and like the president picking fights with the literal
pope of the Catholic Church.

Speaker 9 (46:54):
Yeah, I mean, the beef between the Catholics and the
Protestants go kinda kind of far back. You suppose at
least share this scripture or this overarch in like religious
room work, and yet there's still a desire to delineate,
to separate, to define an enemy eaten within that cohort.

Speaker 10 (47:16):
And a lot of those like current differences they do
relate to, like military action in the Middle East and
what's happening in Palestine, like specifically, and I found out
to be an interesting connection as you're as you're talking about,
you know, specifically like Christian Zionists and how the situation
in the Middle East is extremely important for their apocalyptic worldview.
And that is like one of the key differences between

(47:37):
between like evangelical Christians and you know, the current stuff
like that that the Pope is saying, which is uh,
you know, very much opposed to what's happening in the
Middle East.

Speaker 9 (47:46):
Yeah, because they've constructed this very robust asktsological from work,
which is the next thing that I wanted to get into.
The language that these movements use helps to control their people.

(48:12):
They're controlling people not just through physical barriers, but through
psychological barriers.

Speaker 10 (48:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (48:18):
If you can control the vocabulary available to a person,
how a person understands the meaning of words, how they
understand the meaning of their scriptures, you can control the
range of thoughts that they're capable of having.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
You know.

Speaker 9 (48:31):
That was kind of the point that as cliched. This
point is the point that georgioel was making when they
had the Ministry of Truth in nineteen eighty four. That
you limit even language available, so that even dissent cannot
be fully expressed. You don't have to censor anybody because
you've already censored their minds.

Speaker 10 (48:52):
Yeah, and you see that even their own creation of
like phrases and terms across all these groups, like they
come up with specific into a phrase, they just get repeated.
And that just starts like replacing language if it starts
filling in the gap of language and communication thought, terminating cliches.

Speaker 9 (49:11):
Exactly exactly thought to any cliches, and also just a
broader cognitive enclosure. So in the case of Shinriquo, you
had the group using this dense pseudo scientific and pseudo
religious jargon that blended spirituality quantum physics biology, and those
who are most elevated in that group were able to

(49:32):
wield that language and make themselves sound so sophisticated and
elevated and on a higher plane of truth and reality.
That made it very easy for them to swindle people
within their circle. It created a linguistic barrier of the entry,
so that you couldn't participate even in the group's truth
without committing to the incomprehensible dogma. Yeah, and if you

(49:56):
don't commit to the incomprehensible dogma, then you just you
don't get it.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
You're going to be an out.

Speaker 9 (50:00):
You are not enlightened, you uh, outside of the truth.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (50:05):
And this this is a problem across a lot of
a lot of different groups and concluding groups that are
not this you know, apocalyptic or or fascist or like
religiously based. But they even see versions of this among
like the contemporary left, yeah, which creates like, yeah, this
like barrier to entry by using certain like phrases like
academic language.

Speaker 9 (50:25):
Yeah, and and very idiosyncratic definitions of words that have
otherwise common definitions yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
No.

Speaker 10 (50:32):
And and how much politics is like this subcultural purpose
of like maintaining a certain like subgroup like a social
circle versus actually building like mass politics, and how they
doo syncratic small like purity of groups with their special
language and these like barriers to entry makes it very
hard to do larger political organizing that actually goes towards

(50:57):
like a working class movement.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (51:00):
Lifting points out that there is a tendency for ideological
totalism in a lot of movements, as we would have mentioned,
So it's something we have to be on guard for
if we want to avoid falling into these traps, and
so we look at the example of a shamikio in
this case, but isis also has a kind of a

(51:20):
total elimination of nuance through polarized, emotionally charged vocabulary. You know,
you have the believer and you have the infidel, which
again includes fellow Muslims. You have the pure, and you
have the corrupt. Every dynamic, every binary is zero sum.
You know, you're either with the Caliphate or you're an
enemy of God to be wiped out. And within the

(51:42):
eschatological framework of Christian Zionism, opposing the apocalyptic and formed
of geopolitical ambitions is tant amount opposing God's plan. You know,
it's like, how dare you the uses thought terminating cliches
as you would have mentioned things like it is written, yeah, revelation.
You know, it's God's will, And there's no way to

(52:04):
actually challenge their policies or actions in their minds on
whether it be humanitarian, legal, or logical grounds, because it's
like you speak in Greek, I mean, doing something like
that is like arguing with God. It's like attacking their faith.
And so we also see these movements stripping individuals of

(52:24):
their agency for the sake of a transaction, the exchange
of the self with all its very real vulnerabilities and
mortality and earth limitations, for a higher purpose that is
eternal and absolute. In the case of Anchinrikio, the destruction
of this self was achieved through the redefinition of morality

(52:45):
that used a distorted interpretation of Vadaryana Buddhism and placed
the Master's will above all conventional ethics. To follow the
Master and achieve spiritual evolution, one had to abandon the
ego with its moral compass and its human attachments, and
in its place, aumition Q offered the merit of absolute obedience.

(53:08):
By following their leader's commands, even those of mass violence
that would expose the wider world to their threat, the
practitioner believed that they were performing a ritual act of
spiritual cleansing to become an instrument of a higher cosmic order.
You see the same thing with the rise of isis
the destruction of the self achieved through the total absorption

(53:29):
of the individual into the monolith. The individuals stripped to
their specific context, whatever nationality or background they may have had,
and being reduced to a singular functional component of the
struggle being given up purpose that was compensated with the
promise of eternal significance, the promise of martyrdom, of fighting

(53:50):
and dying for the caliphate, and with that the individual
could bypass the mundane struggles of earthly life to secure
a place in a permanent divine reaction and the political
theological sphere of Christian Zionism. The destruction of the self
has more to do with relinquishing the selfs agency and
become an instrumentalized for the sake of God's plan by

(54:13):
Freeman Israel's ascendants in the Middle East as an essential
precursor to the Second Coming of Christ, and when everything
in their power to lobby for and support it, the
movement disregards the genocidal costs for the reward being the
fulfillment of a define apocalyptic timeline. And so in all
three cases, the follower is convinced that the destruction of

(54:34):
this world as they know it, and the destruction of
the self within it is not a tragedy, but actually
a kind of liberation. For all three of these movements
have been tragedies for the rest of the world. Amishinrikio
deployed chemical weapons in Tokyo subway system. They killed thirteen
people and injured over fifty eight hundred others, instill in

(54:54):
a long term anxiety for those who live in the
city that their shared space could be the site of
potential terror and the person sitting next to you could
be the vessel for a hidden lethal ideology. Isis has
forcibly displaced millions, killed tens of thousands, and destroyed ancient
heritage sites, all in an effort to erase the other,

(55:17):
and the Middle East and Africa in particular continue to
be scarred by its violence. Christian Zionist ideology has introduced
a variable to the political equation that is immune to
reason and negotiation, that cannot question its theological justifications. Of course,
Zionism is not entirely dependent on Christian Zionist support. You know,

(55:39):
Jewish colonial settlements would have predated British support, American support,
and Christian Zionist support. But the political cosign that Christian
Zionists provide within the premier superpower does aid in the
continued support for the Palestinian genesis. So ideological totalism seeks

(56:03):
to eliminate pluralism, to eliminate shared truth and to literally kill.
But we should not view the rise of totalizing ideologies
as some freak, isolated phenomenon, because it deprives its strength
from the very framework and conditioning embedded in our existing
social structures. The mechanisms of miliu control, loading the language,

(56:26):
and other techniques used by cultic tendencies exist in subtle
forms within our mainstream institutions. We see the seeds of
thought or form in the echo chambers of media ecosystems.
We see the loading of language in the polarized rhetoric
of politics. We see the demand for purity in the
most aggressive forms of cultural and religious tribalism. The extremist

(56:47):
can sometimes be the most honest, uninhibited expression, the natural
endpoint of our world's authoritarian tendencies and subtle lifelong conditioning
at home, in the classroom, at work BOK. In civic life,
we are trained in the soft versions of the very
deference that totalize and leaders eventually demand. We are conditioned

(57:08):
to respect authority without question, to prioritize the greater good
of the institution over individual agency, and to accept official
narratives as the only valid reality. So when a leader
arrives who promises to replace the complex, messy and certainty
of our political and social reality with the clarity of
absolute truth. The most conditioned minds naturally find the offer

(57:32):
at a seductive and so this disease caught through social
condition must be treated by a fundamental reclamation of the
individual's capacity for critical thought and autonomy. We have to
move beyond the mere consumption of information to the active
interrogation of it. This means cultivating the ability to recognize

(57:53):
the traps of thought reform, the logical fallacies, the loading
of the language, to recognize when an ideology is at
teens into bypass or reason in fever of or emotions.
The primary defense against thought reform is the refusal so
that any authority, religious, pilitical, or otherwise becomes secret and
beyond question it.

Speaker 10 (58:13):
Yeah, I think that point that you made towards the
end there, But like this thing just being the most
visible consequence of the contradictions of our current social system
is like really important. Is because yeah, I mean, we're
all sorting through the same the same sorts of causes
that that produced groups like this, or produce the people

(58:35):
that move into groups like this, And we might sort
these out in different ways, but in the way that
they do it. It's not it's not fully alien, it's
just it's just a very visible outward manifestation of the
same sorts of internal contradictions, and like fascism feeds on
these same things. You can see how much fascism like
overlaps with a lot of stuff that you're talking about here, yep.

(58:57):
And it seemed kind of like suicidal tendencies thistructure of
the self, right, that is, that is dealing with those
with those same sorts of like social tensions and internal
contradictions that produce like outbursts of antisocial behavior like this
or in some cases like genocidal behavior.

Speaker 4 (59:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (59:13):
Yeah, I think it's very much resultant. Oh, there's the
structure of our old system.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
You know, the.

Speaker 9 (59:19):
Stresses, the anxiety, is the pains and pressure points, and
you know, we are all different as individuals, and I
think that some people respond to these conditions in weas
that are very much either self destructive, externally destructive, or both.

Speaker 10 (59:48):
I think a part of our task in like a
general sense, is providing some alternative to this. Right, you
can like look at the way the really like on
like a global level, like the left has really receded
a lot in the past fifty sixty seventy years, and
that that leaves a lot of you know, people who
are who are trying to look for this for this
sort of purpose, Right, They're trying to understand the contradictions

(01:00:11):
of the world, and there may not be a humanistic
option for that, so it gets directed into much more
destructive ways. Sometimes you can see like what happened in
Rajava with like democratic confederalism as like, right, they they
actually did that, right, They they saw what was needed
and they did it. And it's directly opposing the sort
of alternative version which is which is isis which is

(01:00:33):
like super interesting, Right, but I think we have we
have the same problem here, and but we don't really
have like a strong, strong, like alternative to that, right,
like a healthy, a healthy and growing like working class
movement which it attempts to actually solve the sort of
sort of problems that are in the world that these
sorts of other things like feed on. Right, they grab

(01:00:54):
onto these onto these very very present problems and apply
an emotionally soothing a response to it, even if it
is self destructive.

Speaker 9 (01:01:05):
Yeah, the work of building an alternative and demonstrating it
and showing people live in it, I think is very
very important.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:01:15):
I also think that when you consider the fact that
the wholemark of totalizing systems is the elimination of the
other and the criminalization of dissent our antidotes, our alternative
has to embrace. It has to be committed to the
adversity of thought and expression. And I also think that

(01:01:36):
it has to be willing to sit with conflict, to
sit with tensions. Yeah, two, allow them to in ate
with each other without trying to just override it with
some false unity.

Speaker 10 (01:01:50):
Those tensions and conflict are like important, and that is
how we will develop our thought and develop our movement forward.
You have to you have to have those tensions. You
have to have that that conflict and disagreement, which will
hopefully produce more positive outcomes.

Speaker 6 (01:02:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:02:04):
Hopefully it's it's generative conflict and not destructive conflict. Yeah yeah, yeah,
I mean, and some conflicts can be generative if we
accept that they can't be resolved. I think part of
what makes some conflicts destructive is this effort to kind
of just paint over them with some kumbaya sense of

(01:02:24):
oh well, just well, you just unify like that's not consequential,
or we'll figure it out, or that's just how it is.
And I think we we act to be willing to
be uncomfortable with not having the answers, I mean, we
never having the answers. In some cases. There are those
who I think will have the capacity to engage into

(01:02:47):
de radicalization of ideological totalists. I don't think I'm among them,
and I think that there are others that we can
care outreach towards. Yes, I get irritated sometimes when I
see people who believe that the focus of our attention
right now, as people trying to build an alternative, trying

(01:03:07):
to build a better tomorrow, that our focus should be
on trying to deradicalize right wingers.

Speaker 10 (01:03:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:03:15):
The vast majority of people are politically unaffiliated, politically uncommitted, apathetic, disengaged,
and I think that we can do far more if
we were to focus on reaching those people and helping
those people see the problems with this system and the
solutions that we have on offer than engaging in fruitless

(01:03:37):
debate with right wingers or.

Speaker 10 (01:03:40):
Yeah, And I think that's actually the most effective form
of deradicalization, exactly exactly. There is a lot of problems
with the sort of like deradicalization framework that emerge in
like twenty eighteen to kind of meet the rise of
like the alt right. A lot of it doesn't work,
a lot of it can be fruitless, but there is
like a noble intention behind it, and I think the

(01:04:04):
best way to actually do that is by just providing
a healthy alternative that does appeal to most people.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
It doesn't.

Speaker 10 (01:04:10):
It doesn't need to be catered towards someone who's on
like the right or like the far right, because in
a lot of cases those people are suffering from the
same sorts of problems that the rest of people are.
They've just found of a false solution for it, and
so if you're able to provide a better solution, a
lot of them will move over. There's really very few
that are like through and tried, like ideologically committed, right.

(01:04:30):
There's some, and they're maybe very vocal on the Internet,
but that's that's not actually like most.

Speaker 9 (01:04:36):
Yeah, and also the Internet is at least half thoughts
at this point, so yeah, you know, you teach some
of those Internet discussions with a green as salt in
terms of being representative of any population significantly. But I
did have some tips with regard to outreach for those

(01:04:57):
who may have a special interest in it or maybe
have a loved one that they really want to help
where they see being immersed in an ideologically totalistic environment.
For one, directly, attack in a person's core beliefs are
going to trigger something called the backfire effect, which is
where contradictory evidence actually strengthens their conviction because their identity

(01:05:22):
is not used to their ideology, so an attack on
the idea is perceived as a mortal attack on the self.
Debating them is not.

Speaker 5 (01:05:30):
Going to help.

Speaker 9 (01:05:30):
It's better to think of yourself more as a connecting
force rather than a correcting force. Your a lifeline, yeah
to gently guide them out of their radical mindset rather
than trying to instruct them out of it. To be
rate them out of it. And when you notice that
they're experience and doubt in their ideas, it can be

(01:05:52):
very exciting to try and rush in and show them
the way, but you don't want to overwhelm them. Doubt,
especially for people immersed in that mindset, might literally collapse
their entire social and cognitive world. So your focus, I think,
needs to be unprovided a safe harbor where their doubts

(01:06:13):
can be expressed freely, without judgment or any pressure to
immediately betray all that they've ever known. You also need
to consider the conditions that led the person into that
situation in the first place. If you know what they
were like and what their situation was like prior to indoctrination,
whether they had certain relationship issues, financial issues, systemic abuses, traumas, isolation,

(01:06:39):
some kind of yunin for meaning or purpose that can
help you contextualize the situation. And while you can always
fundamentally disagree with their conclusions, it's good to recognize the
needs that drove them to those conclusions. But in addition
to that, you can try to find out what their
passions and will or are outside of that doctrine, so

(01:07:05):
they have some kind of psychological landing pad if they
were to escape the environment, so that they're not without
a sense of self, so they're not floundering for some
form of identity. These movements and this tendency for ideological
totalism derived from hierarchy will not be overcome in one

(01:07:25):
fell swoop. It is a continuous daily struggle within the
human mind and the social fabric. It's a struggle to
remain unconditioned by the temptations of certainty, to hold on
to the messy, the diverse, the complex, to create a
social foundation of individuals who are capable of saying no

(01:07:48):
and that's it for me, or power to all the
people peace. When we think of globalization, we often think

(01:08:09):
of trade and late twentieth century technological interconnection and the
movement of capital. But there was another kind of globalization
emerging in the late nineteenth century. That was the globalization
of resistance. In the closing decades of the eighteen hundreds,
a network of ideas, outlaws, and revolutionaries would emerged to

(01:08:32):
challenge the empires of the time. Welcome to Ikarappan. Here,
I'm Andrew's Age Andrewism on YouTube. I'm joined again.

Speaker 10 (01:08:40):
By Garrison Davis.

Speaker 9 (01:08:42):
Hello, welcome again and in this episode, using the research
of historian Bendic Anderson in chapter five of the Age
of Globalization, I want to look at this period in
history where the tools of empire were appropriated by the
very people the empire sought to suppress. To link anarchist
prisoners in Monturiche to intellectuals in Paris, to agitators in Cuba,

(01:09:07):
to nationalists into Philippines. Now, the story doesn't actually begin
in Monturige prison in Barcelona, Spain, but a narrative begins there.
Following the June seventh, eighteen ninety six bomben in Corpus Christi,
three hundred people were imprisoned in a wave of Spanish
state repression. Among those caught in the crackdown was Fernando

(01:09:29):
Trida del Marmol, a Cuban Creole whose background connected him
to both Metropol and Colony. His imprisonment was a direct
consequence of the state's attempt to suppress the burgenin anarchist
movement in Catalonia. They will only end up fueling the
movement thanks to the efforts of the radical international press.
Triedo was a math teacher, which actually helped him out

(01:09:52):
when he got arrested, because a young lieutenant warden recognized
his former teacher and managed to sound the alarm of
his incarceration. Thurida also happened to be the cousin of
a conservative senator who used his influence to inshure Trida's release.
But Trida didn't let these privileges cause him to forget
his less privileged fellow prisoners, because he immediately upon release,

(01:10:13):
went to Paris, the city of duality, a city that
was both the central capital of colonial power and a
premier global hub for political descent. So then in Paris
to Reda gained access to La Revue Blanche, a very
popular periodical of the era. He'd been a recognized writer
from before his imprisonment, as he popularly advocated for anarchism

(01:10:36):
without adjectives, and he had gotten into a back and
forth about workers associations and bureaucracy and propaganda of the
deed with a cit In gene Grave, who was another
popular French anarchist of the period. So in Lar Review
Blanche Taeder published his personal brutal experience of imprisonment and
contextualized it as a broader political indictment by connecting the

(01:10:58):
gruesome suppression of descent in Barcelona to the exact same
mechanisms being deployed in the Spanish colonies of Cuba, Puerto
Rico and the Philippines. Thus, he demonstrated that repression into
Spanish provinces was not an isolated domestic issue, but a
fundamental characteristic of Spanish clonial policy. And this narrative was
taken up and amplified by the efforts of Philip Fignon

(01:11:20):
and Georges Clement Chau. Fili Fignon was an influential art
critic and prominent anarchist intellectual who helped frame this struggle
against Spanish repression as a significant moral crisis. He also
wrote strongly against French imperialism and Revanist nationalism. And Georges
Clement Chau was a radical journalist and politician considered a

(01:11:42):
formidable figure in the defense of political prisoners as he
had the capacity to mobilize public opinion around issues of
justice state authority. So together these figures helped ensure that
the grievances of to Reader and the Spanish prisoners were
integrated into the global conversation now. Historian Benedict Andersson situated
these events within the long nineteenth century, which had a

(01:12:04):
lot of high profile political violence, specifically anarchist bombings and
targeted assassinations, which prompted a correspondent escalation in state power
through much more stringent legal frameworks and surveillance apparatus. Parallel
to the rise of anti terror legislation was the emergence
of a new structured infrastructure of descent consistent of labor

(01:12:27):
organizations and radical press, which served as a vital nod
in the global network capable of circulating revolutionary ideas and
coordinating resistance across borders. In addition to the Montjewish affair,
the Dreyfus affair would also be amplified by this network.
The Drefus affair was an incident in French history where

(01:12:48):
in eighteen ninety four, a certain Alfred Dreyfus, who was
a Jewish captain in the French Army, was accused of treason,
alleged to have passed sensitive military documents to the German
intelligence services. The evidence against him was largely based on
forged documents and a high degree of anti Semitic prejudice.
Sir Dreyfus was convicted, stripped of his rank, and sentenced

(01:13:10):
to life imprisonment on Devil's Island, but the radical press
began calling this out, especially when evidence surface suggested that
the actual spy was another officer, Ferdinand Wilson esther Hazy,
But the French military high command had covered it up,
suppressing evidence, manipulating corproceedings and intimidating witnesses to ensure that

(01:13:31):
Dreyfus remained convicted. A pivotal moment in the affair was
the publication of non radical Emil Zola's open letter Jacques
in the newspaper Le Roux in eighteen ninety eight, as
Zola used the power of the press to directly challenge
the military high command after the real culprit was acquitted
the day after his trial began. This landed Zola in

(01:13:53):
jail for Libel, where he eventually got out on a
plead you, but it also earned him the tenuous respect
of some critical left wing intellectuals. Meanwhile, Tereda had already
left Paris for Belgium, then London, where he made use
of his contacts around the world to create a coalition
of quote liberals, freemasons, socialists, anarchists, anti imperialists and anti

(01:14:16):
clericals against the Spanish government and especially against Prime Minister
Antonio Canovas del Castillo, the conservative who was the chief
architect of the brutal repression of Spanish anarchists, socialists, and
labor activists. Domestically, his aim was to ensure the stability
of the Spanish monarchy amidst growing pressures of anarchism, labor unrest,

(01:14:38):
colonial rebellion, and American aggression. On August ninth, eighteen ninety seven,
the Italian anarchist Michel Angiolillo assassinated Canovas. Angiolillo was a
real monarchy hater. He had traveled to Barcelona under a
fake name and was working as a freelance printer when
the Corpus Christie Bouman occurred. The city was put under

(01:15:00):
martial law and his anarchist friends were incarcerated in Montriche.
After hearing about how they were being tortured, he fled
for Paris, was expelled to Belgium, then moved to London,
where to Reader's agitation against the Canova's regime was at
full strength. He continued to work as a printer and
engaged in activism in London for some time, where people

(01:15:21):
asked who would avenge those tortured and murdered by the
Spanish state, including the recently executed Jose Rizal, who was
a Filipino nationalist. So after hearing this, Anguolil was like okay,
bet and he makes his way back to continental Europe
with a pistol in his pocket. In France, he meets
doctor Ramon Betansis, who was a Puerto Rican physician revolutionary

(01:15:44):
who sought the independence of Puerto Rico and the dismantling
of Spanish colonial authority.

Speaker 4 (01:15:49):
In the antelites.

Speaker 9 (01:15:49):
He spent his life country hop in helping the sick
and flee in Spanish spies, and although he was an
an anarchist, he was connected with a lot of anarchists,
particularly French and Italian anarchists, through the heterogenous front against
the Spanish State, against imperialism and monarchical tyranny. The European
anarchists and socialists found a natural ally in the anti

(01:16:11):
colonial movement he was part of, as the liberation of
Puerto Rico and Cuba would represent a vital blow against
the same imperialist structures they were fighting to dismantle in Europe.

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
Now.

Speaker 9 (01:16:22):
Bitansis claims he redirected the target of Angolillo's planned assassination
from the Spanish Queen regent and infant son to the
Prime Minister, but Benedet Anderson calls this narrative into question
because there doesn't seem to be any corroborating evidence anyway.
So Angiolillo gets to Madrid, he learns Canovas' location, he

(01:16:45):
stalks him for a bit, and then he shoots him.
Dead with the pistol he brought from London. In his trial,
Angiolillo defends himself with reference to Montjuiche and Cuba and
the Philippines, and says, quote Canova's personified in their most
repugnant forms, religious ferocity, military cruelty, the implacability of the judiciary,

(01:17:05):
the tyranny of power, and the greed of the possessing classes.
I have rid Spain, Europe and the entire world of him.
That is why I am no assassin, but rather an
executioner that does coke pretty hard, it does go hard.

Speaker 4 (01:17:20):
When is this?

Speaker 10 (01:17:21):
Is this late eighteen hundreds or early nineteen.

Speaker 9 (01:17:23):
Hundreds, late eighteen hundreds, late teen hundreds, Okay, yeah, So
after his rousing speech, he was then himself executed at
just twenty six years old. Now beyond being a symptom
of imperial crisis, Canovas's assassination functioned as an accelerant. By
removing such as central figure of the political machinery of

(01:17:46):
Spain in the midst of its war against the US,
Angiolillos act triggered the volatility that would culminate in the
loss of Spain's final colonial possessions in eighteen ninety eight
Q were the Philippines and Puerto Rico were in the
hands of the United States, and the bullets that killed
Canovas just kept going well into the decades to come. Now,

(01:18:22):
speaking of the Philippines, we can turn out that Pacific
node of the movement network, Isabelo delos Race was a
moderate liberal of his time, somewhat privileged as a businessman, publisher,
and journalist, but he wasn't afraid to advocate strongly against
Spanish colonial rule and was arrested in connection to the
Philippine Revolution of eighteen ninety six as part of a

(01:18:43):
broader oppression against rebels, intellectuals, and activists. The revolution had
begun prematurely after the Spanish authorities discovered their plot, and
so many of the revolutionaries whore imprisoned as a result. Now,
while imprisoned, Isabello had to deal with the death of
his wife and was unable to attend her funeral or
do anything for their children. Naturally, after an experience like that,

(01:19:08):
he'll be pissed at the colonial injustices that he and
his people suffered at the hands of the government and
at the hands of the religious orders. He demanded political
reform and was met with relocation, first to a Barcelona
municipal jail and then to the infamous Montuish. While in Spain,
he met several brave anarchists who had been in prison

(01:19:30):
for various crimes, crimes including advocating for Cuban independence, protesting
trials by military courts, and opening secular schools gasp for children,
which I mean it was Catholic Spain at that point
in time. Yeah, so that was like the worst thing
you could possibly do. There were some anarchists who were

(01:19:51):
in jail for assassinations, but I mean, come on, what's
a little assassination between friends.

Speaker 10 (01:19:56):
I mean the assassination and opening a school I think
is the same level of danger to the state at
this point.

Speaker 9 (01:20:03):
Indeed, and these dangerous criminals demonstrated a level of solidarity
that really inspired Isabello. And while in prison he also
got access to anarchist literature and was able to take
part in discussions with anarchists where he learned about their
rejection of state authority, colonial domination, and class hierarchy. Now,

(01:20:27):
in this exile period, I don't think he ever became
an anarchist, and I mean late in his life. Even
sued as a senator, but he was profoundly influenced by
the anarchists and did come to admire them for decades
to come. Eventually, following the assassination of Canovas and the
change in government in eighteen ninety eight, Isabello was freed.

(01:20:48):
He then moved to Madrid and started a fortnightly publication,
Filipinas and the europa An Anti Periodist Critique, with particular
focus on the growing American Empire. And it's funny because
after Spain lost their colonies to the US, all of
a sudden, public opinion in Spain started to become sympathetic
to the Filipino fight. It was like, oh, now we

(01:21:10):
could start to feel bad feel you know, the Americans
embarrassed us, so now we have some sympathy. He applied,
and so Isabelo criticized America's claim to be liberate in
the Philippines and Cuba as hypocrisy by pointing to the
regular occurrence of lygens and racist institutions within the US,
and he also criticized the Filipino elite for their willingness

(01:21:33):
to collaborate with the new colonial rulers. The Philippino Revolution
was basically over by nineteen oh one, as a key
leader named Emilio Aguinaldo was captured and had to swear
allegiance to the US. By the way, Alcuinaldo would also
prove to be a collaborator later in his life, as
he worked with the Japanese occupiers of the Philippines during

(01:21:54):
World War Two. So it's a Patsma behavior for that
guy anyway. So after the end of the revolution, Isabello
decided to finally return to the Philippines to reunite with
the six children he had with his first wife, who
he hadn't seen in years, and to continue the struggle. Also,
when he was in Spain, he got married. Isabello arrived

(01:22:16):
in Manila with the works of Thomas Aquinas Voltaire, Pedrosph Prudon,
Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, and Erico Manchester. He
might have been the first person to bring the works
of some of these thinkers to the Philippines. And I
think we kind of understate that luck of the draw
I suppose when we talk about the movement of ideas

(01:22:37):
in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, you know, they didn't
have the Internet, they didn't have the anarchist library.

Speaker 4 (01:22:44):
It takes a lot of work.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:22:47):
Yeah, they didn't have all these accessible means of learning
about these ideas. So if you didn't happen to know
somebody who could bring in that kind of literature for you, well,
first of all, you wouldn't even know that literature existed
unless somebody told you about it. Yeah, the access to
information was severely limited. And so fortunately Isobello brought these
ideas to Philippines. That he was the first to do

(01:23:07):
so in his time. But as we'll soon see, the
history of the Philippines could have gotten in a slightly
different trajectory if he had not brought in that literature,
learned about those ideas, started engaging and agitating on that
basis based on his experiences. I mean, he ended up
in a Spanish prison, of all places, So the Spanish

(01:23:27):
Empire that imprisoned him ended up so in the seeds
for rebellion in the former territory later on.

Speaker 10 (01:23:33):
As it happens, a not uncommon turn of events.

Speaker 9 (01:23:36):
Actually, indeed, so Isabella pulls up in Manila and his
reputation as an anti imperialist preceded him. He was labeled
a dangerous anarchist, and it really didn't help that the
US President McKinley had literally been shot to death by
an anarchist just a month prior.

Speaker 10 (01:23:56):
This whole period of time is just while every time
that that I've done an episode with you about like
the late eighteen hundreds to early to early nineteen hundreds,
it's always it's always.

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
Stuff like this.

Speaker 10 (01:24:08):
It's like, yeah, an unbelievable collection of happenings, like like
history really has such a momentum during this period, Like
it's it's it's unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:24:19):
I just I really enjoyed during those connections because I mean,
he came to Manila with all these organizational plans. He
was going to start a party, he was going to
launch a news people but as he pulls up and
he realizes he's literally on a list. Yeah, you know,
he kind of had to scrap those ideas and pull
back a bit.

Speaker 10 (01:24:40):
And like Lenin's doing the same stuff like in Germany
and Russia during the same time, like everyone everyone, like
everyone understands the mission. Yeah, yeah, everyone knows what has
to happen.

Speaker 9 (01:24:51):
And this is like before the standardization of passports. Yeah,
this is before the global visa system, and so people
are literally just and around. Yeah, I mean, I always
marveled the fact that Rakamana Testa was like he was
getting active in Egypt. At one point he pulled up
in Brazil. You know, everybody has to come to Brazil.

(01:25:11):
Eventually he was everywhere, right, and these ideas were everywhere too,
as a result of the movement of people bringing these books,
bringing these ideas get involved in conversation. It also helped,
of course, that a lot of anarchists were printmakers still
are still. Yeah, many such cases. So Isabelo switched strategies.

(01:25:48):
In his words, he took advantage of the occasion to
put into practice the good ideas that he had learned
from the anarchists of Barcelona who were imprisoned with him
in the infamous Fortress of Montrige. So he started organ
in the working class in Manila. He had the benefit
of actually being able to speak the language of the
swaths of workers in Manila because he happened to come

(01:26:09):
from the same region of the fastly linguistically diverse Philippines
that they did. He was from the ilocost region of
the island of Luzon, and he natively spoke the Ilocano language,
like many of the workers that had migrated to Milan.
Though he was technically part of the intelligence here, Isabello
had a connection to the roots, you know, to the

(01:26:32):
people streets, and so he began by organizing the printers,
of course, and helping them with their strikes, and from
their the efforts very quickly snowballed far quicker than the
elites could have anticipated into a cross industry worker federation
called the Union Obrera Democratica, the first of its kind

(01:26:53):
in the entire country. The federation was flexible and loosely structured,
which made it quite suited to under taken various strike actions.
But beyond demonstrations and strikes, Isabello also incorporated a little
local flavor because the union was also involved in festivals
and theater and music events, so it was a combination

(01:27:14):
of worker and non worker based organization. You get a
little bit of everybody involved when you do that, rather
than strictly focusing on just one plane of struggle and connection. Eventually, however,
the Americans got their act together and met this movement
with surveillance, arrest and trials, and though they couldn't legally
justify keeping him in jail for very long. They did

(01:27:37):
throw Isabello back into jail for a short period. Now,
the Worker Federation would eventually collapse, but the ideas remained,
and those ideas fed directly into various labor organizations, socialist parties,
and gorilla movements going forward. As for Isabello, his second wife,
the one he married in Spain, died and two years

(01:27:59):
later he married again. Twenty eighteen year old Isabello married
and was widowed three times. He actually outlived all of
his wives and had a grand total of twenty seven children.

Speaker 10 (01:28:13):
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 9 (01:28:16):
Yeah, I have no comments on what kind of father
he may have been, but that's just.

Speaker 10 (01:28:23):
I mean, yeah, you can you can kind of assume
based on those numbers, but yeah, that is what it is.

Speaker 9 (01:28:28):
And the fact that he was he was in Spain,
got married in Spain, had six children back home who
had lost their mother. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't in
Spain by choice, right, But yeah, you know, he was
middle class, so he may have had family back at
home taken care of his children, but still as rough.

Speaker 5 (01:28:46):
Yeah, that is rough.

Speaker 9 (01:28:48):
So later on his life, like I mentioned before, he
got into electoral politics on the municipal level, and the
Senate level. And he also in his life got to
work in religious reform, eventually found in the Aglipayan Church,
which was the first ever Philipino independent Catholic Christian church.

Speaker 10 (01:29:07):
Yeah, I was I was wondering because, like you you mentioned,
he brought over Thomas Aquinas.

Speaker 6 (01:29:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:29:13):
Yeah, he was very critical of the religious orders, the
Spanish Catholic religious orders. But yeah, he ended up forming
an independent Catholic church, so a Catholic church that is
not associated with Rome.

Speaker 10 (01:29:26):
You said he didn't identify as an anarchist. Did he
identify as like a socialist? Like what kind of was
his like self defined politics like around around this point
and like when he started running for office on the
municipal level.

Speaker 9 (01:29:38):
I didn't see how he defined himself. I think he
considered himself to be a patriot, you know, a patriot
somebody who is pro labor. I don't know that he
assigned himself necessarily the title of socialist or anarchist or
liberal or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:54):
Yeah, he has.

Speaker 9 (01:29:56):
However, been called the father of the Philippine Mabe movie
mount and the father of Filipino socialism. But what do
we take from all of this? You know, the empire,
my globalized trade, my globalized capital mic globalize various forms
of suppression, but it inevasively globalizes resistance. The same infrastructure

(01:30:19):
that empires used to extend their reach across their claimed
territories is the same infrastructure that radicals can use to fight.
You know, even prison was used as a site of connection,
a literal place of oppression, became a place that connected
people across multiple countries. I think the lesson that I

(01:30:44):
take away from this kind of narrative I've spun here
between the Cuban and Creole Fernando Tider, the Puerto Rican
doctor Ramonetansis, the Italian Michelle Angiolillo, and the Filipino Isabelo
Delo race is that the globalization was not a one

(01:31:06):
way imposition. We could potentially adopt the empire's tools to
fight back and to network or resistance.

Speaker 10 (01:31:16):
People who are doing resistance but on the other side
of the political spectrum do this same thing. Like the
formation of isis in prisons because of how we imprisoned
all kind of members is a pretty key example of this. Yeah,
this is a very common thing. Like it turns out,
very very often the master's tools actually are used to

(01:31:38):
dismantle the master's house. That that phrase still has some
like I think metaphorical uses, but in the in a
sort of like literalist sense. I occasionally push back on it,
because yeah, it does. It does view movement as a
one way thing, and it has it has like no
dialectical analysis, and I think part of part of our

(01:32:00):
job is like adapting it and moving as empire and
capital adapts and moves to the flow of history one.

Speaker 9 (01:32:10):
And with that, as always all power to all the people. Peace,
Hello everyone, and welcome.

Speaker 11 (01:32:30):
To it could happened here. My name is Dan al Kurd.
I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics,
and today I have with me Andrew Lever. Andrew liber
is a non resident scholar in the Carnegab of Elie
Program and an assistant professor in Tulane University's Department of
Political Science and their Middle East and North Africa Studies Program.
His research and teaching focuses on the domestic politics and

(01:32:51):
international relations of the Middle East and North Africa region,
with that particular focus on Saudi Arabia. Andrew, thanks so
much for joining us. Thanks for having me so I
wanted to have on today because well the war and iron,
but also because I think there's been a lot of
reporting and some that's not very well sourced in mainstream media,
like the New York Times about the GCC states GCC

(01:33:13):
Golf Cooperation Council, so the Arab Golf States, about their
motivations and the actions of the Golf States during this war.
I think that there's been a lot of obfuscation for
a variety of reasons. So I wanted to bring you
on giving your expertise to kind of clarify fact from
fiction on some of that. We're recording May twenty eighth,
so maybe people have seen this. Trump also recently threatened

(01:33:35):
to bomb Aman who were acting as mediators initially. So yeah,
I wanted to go through all the main GCC actors
and get your analysis of their behavior during this war,
what they want to happen when it's over.

Speaker 5 (01:33:48):
Sure, I'm happy to do so.

Speaker 12 (01:33:49):
I think one thing that has been a little hard
for people to follow maybe has been the tendency for
US and English language media outlistens talked about the Gulf
States or the g States are they want from this conflict.

Speaker 5 (01:34:01):
But even heading into.

Speaker 12 (01:34:03):
This war, there were already key differences among these countries.
There was a diplomatic and increasingly potentially a military rift
between Saudi Arabia and the neighboring.

Speaker 5 (01:34:14):
United Arab Emirates.

Speaker 12 (01:34:15):
There have been past disputes between different cult countries as well,
and even though initially the Iran War seemed like it
would paper over the cracks in these divisions, in many ways,
it's also deepened the divides as different countries have interpreted
the threats posed by Iron and by Israel and potentially
even the United States in different ways. So at present

(01:34:37):
we can maybe think of three broad camps within the GCC.
So there's Study Arabia, the largest by land mass of
these countries, and to a lesser extent, Kuwait and also
Kutar have taken the approach of trying to just get
things back to quote unquote normal or like a new normal,
supporting mediation efforts by other countries like Pakistan, and now

(01:35:00):
for Kutar increasingly engaged in direct mediation to try to
lock in some kind of agreement that restores flows of
energy and other goods in and out of the Strait
of Horus, the key body of water that.

Speaker 5 (01:35:12):
Allows things in and out of the Persian Gulf.

Speaker 12 (01:35:15):
You are then in one direction, you have the United
Arab Empirates, which has presented itself as kind of much
more hawkish in terms of its willingness to potentially use
military force against Iran or to join the United States
in a military effort to open the Strait of Hormuz.
In the past few days it's been quietly walking back

(01:35:36):
some of those positions, but it has tried to drag
our contrast between its more assertive stance towards Irani and
actions in the region and Saudi Arabia, and then the
other direction has discussed we have a soult minival mind
which leaned much further in the other direction during the war,
being the only country that criticized openly from the start
both the US and Israeli led attacks on Iran and

(01:35:58):
Iran's reprisals on the other side of the gold Amani
foreign Minister Balbusaid went on US television prior to the
war to make the case that this was the possible
ongoing talks be in the US and Iran could bear
fruit that was unsuccessful as an intervention, but also Allmandi
diplomats at various points have offered much more critical commentary

(01:36:18):
of the United States, but they have likewise kind of
walked that back or at least not emphasized it as
much in recent weeks. But clearly there is a narrative
critical of ver role that circulates in some parts of DC,
which percolated its way up into the President saying, well,
if if Aman is not going to cooperate with certain things,
then you will just bomb them until they do, which

(01:36:40):
you know is not the nicest way to ask for
the cooperation of other countries and a sensitive geopolitical issue, but.

Speaker 11 (01:36:46):
So it goes right, we're not the most effective these days,
let's say. Yeah, So thank you for kind of laying
that out. There are so many questions I have. I
want to talk about kind of how Saudi Arabia and
Arab Immirates you've already mentioned, differ on this issue, but
also like how their differences speak to different visions for

(01:37:06):
the region, especially visa the Israel. But also just like
before we get to that, there's been a lot of
reporting about how Saudi Arabia is like secretly really gung
home about the war and it is encouraging the Trump
administration to be more aggressive.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
What weight do you put on those reports.

Speaker 12 (01:37:23):
Yeah, I mean those have been around since the start
of the conflict. I'll preface this while giving a major caveat,
which is that every week that goes by, we learn
more about what we didn't know earlier in the war.
Like you know, we know now that both the UA
and Saudi Arabia have carried out airstrikes on Iran at
certain points that they didn't publicize that.

Speaker 5 (01:37:41):
But I'm broadly skeptical of.

Speaker 12 (01:37:43):
Accounts that Saudi Arabia and specifically Crown Prince Mouhammad bin
Solman advocated for this war, pushed for the war. Saudi
Arabia and Iran have not always had very great relations,
but they nominally re established diplomatic ties in twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (01:37:58):
Three, and generally, I think so do your AB's views.

Speaker 12 (01:38:01):
They want to keep the geopolitical peace and the surrounding
neighborhood because otherwise Saudi Arabia can't get the kind of
foreign investment or the kind of economic partnerships it needs
to generate economic growth and employ its citizen population. A
major political concern, and I think even the United Air
Memorates prior to this war.

Speaker 5 (01:38:22):
Was not pushing for it actively.

Speaker 12 (01:38:24):
I think these countries also don't want to tell, with
the possible exception of them, I don't want to tell
President Trump no directly. So my understanding of things is
that everything prior to the war was phrased and a
kind of conditional. We would recommend you don't do this,
but just make sure if you just think this is
a good idea that you can militarily defeat around in

(01:38:44):
a rather quick and decisive fashion. Of course, that bank
on the United States is current policymakers having an accurate
view of their own capabilities, which seemed to be not
a correct assumption. But I think that also during the war,
you had a kind of a panic in different directions,
like a belief that, well, I guess if the United
States has gone to war clearly, then they can solve

(01:39:05):
this militarily, right. So I think you had some leaders,
especially the United Air Memorates, pushing the United States to
like finish the job, don't leave the conflict in a
state where it's very clear that the United States can
militarily force Iron to do certain things. But you also
haven't kind of secured meaningful concessions from Iran, and that
I think is I guess one thing that the units

(01:39:27):
of the DCC states now again with the possible exception
of Oman, is concerned about where they get left if.

Speaker 5 (01:39:32):
There is any kind of deal.

Speaker 12 (01:39:33):
It's very clear that they do not have to see
at the table in terms of these negotiations. And there's
certainly a lot of complaints online or in media outputs
and the Gulf about that fact, but it doesn't change
the reality that these are US around negotiations with maybe
some consultation with Israel, you know, maybe some communication with Saudiriba,
with the UE.

Speaker 5 (01:39:53):
But not a ton of consultation of them.

Speaker 11 (01:39:56):
And just to be clear, they've paid the brunt of
the price here, and Iran has attacked civilian infrastructure and
desalination plants and all those things.

Speaker 5 (01:40:04):
Yeah, no, I mean Iran calculated.

Speaker 12 (01:40:06):
I think, well, we could attack Israel, but most of
the rockets and missiles be shot down Israel's farther away.
It's harder to hit them with a larger payload, whereas
you can hit a lot of infrastructure in the Gulf.
It's been very clear that are on targeted not only
the US military bases, but also civilian infrastructure in an
attempt to put a lot of economic pressure on these countries,
especially the UAE, and even countries that had sought to

(01:40:28):
mediate between the conflict there had been more openly critical
of any US military adventurism. Like Katar basically have their
entire economy frozen right now because they can get very
little of the liquid natural gas they produce in or out.
Same thing with Kwait, same thing with Bahrain. One interesting,
maybe unintended consequence of this, though, is that some of
the Goal States are doing better than others economically from this.

(01:40:50):
Sauburi and the UAE have made up a significant portion
of the ground loss from lost oil exports because they
can export some oil over land, and Oman is exporting
a Battle's montroial as before, but at a much higher price,
so economically or even doing perhaps better. But yeah, these
are the countries that have primarily hid the price in
direct terms, and then by extension, every country that relies

(01:41:14):
on their energy supplies is also paying the price in
terms of higher costs for cooking gas, diesel, fertilizer, and
so on.

Speaker 11 (01:41:22):
Right, really, this is an American Israeli war, even if
the United States kind of holds the final say, but
you know, recently on social media and in a number
of repeated statements President Trump himself and his administration, I've

(01:41:45):
talked about the Abraham Accords, a normalization with Israel, tying
it into possible outcomes for this war. How do you
explain that.

Speaker 12 (01:41:52):
I'm sure your audience is just familiar with the Abraham Accords,
but the diplomatic normalization between the Ua, Bahrain and some
other countries and Israel back in twenty two twenty.

Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
I think for President Trump this is motive.

Speaker 12 (01:42:02):
Talking about this now is motivated by a sense of,
you know, there's a real loss of faith and status
by having talked about how he was going to have
this decisive victory against Iran and then it being a
disaster on every single front. So I think there's now
going to be a hunt for like some other kind
of quick win that.

Speaker 5 (01:42:17):
He can show.

Speaker 12 (01:42:18):
But I think also the lead up to this war
demonstrated that the Abraham Accords as a framework for US
policy towards the Middle East was pretty bankrupt in every direction.
On the one hand, all of the like carrots that
the United States was supposed to offer to encourage countries
to normalize ties with Israel and effective.

Speaker 5 (01:42:38):
We've already been given out.

Speaker 12 (01:42:38):
So Saudi Arabia was like, here are your concessions that
we were going to use in order to encourage.

Speaker 5 (01:42:43):
You to normalized ties with Israel.

Speaker 12 (01:42:44):
We can just give those two as long as you
promised to invest money in the United States. So that's
already been allowed to happen. At the same time, the
downside for these countries and normalizing ties with Israel is
pretty high. There's nothing that Israeli leaders that president can
do to guarantee that there won't be another catastrophic and
genocidal war against the Palestinian population. That's something that you know,

(01:43:06):
a Saudi leadership that is dealing with, you know, potentially
rising unemployment that other countries dealing with ethnic or sectarian
divides within their borders, not something they really want to
take on as well. And I think that the war
has kind of created divergent perceptions of Israel as well.
I think for countries like Saudi Arabia and especially Oman,

(01:43:28):
there's a view of Israel. Even for a newer generation
of leadership like Mohammad Bncelman, who were not particularly opposed
to a greater role for Israel in the region, greater
ties with Israel are just now concerned about Israel as
a chaotic and unreliable partner in the region that will
throw the security interests of its allies to the wind,

(01:43:49):
you know, at the moment's notice. You know, their interpretation
of the Abraham Accords is that it did nothing to
protect the UA and Bahrain from attached by Iran or
from getting dragged into in Israeli led or partly Israeli
led war. In the other direction, however, the UA itself
kind of views its tides with Israel as more important
than ever. Their view is like, well, this is a

(01:44:09):
region of unreliable actors. Israel has a capable military, even
if they don't admit it openly. Israel's the only nuclear
armed actor in the region. And Israel did send what's
it called the Iron Dome defense technology to the UAE
during the conflict. On the one hand, I think where
just as we saw during the Biden administration, the Abraham
Accords remains this kind of like cargo culture American foreign

(01:44:33):
policy makers, this idea that we'll just say the Abraham
Accords and it will magically make countries kind of change
their foreign policy orientation. But I think the Abraham Accords
as a UAE Israeli security economic political alliance in the
region is stronger than ever and will continue to be
the case into the future.

Speaker 11 (01:44:52):
But that Saudi Arabia will not participate in the way
that the Trump administration assumes.

Speaker 12 (01:44:57):
Yeah, I think that Saudi Arabias will continue their policy
they've had ever since October seventh, or at least since
roughly thereafter, of saying like, well, we're not ruling out,
we just have some conditions in order to move on that.
And then, you know, I don't think those are unreasonable
conditions of making progress towards the Palestinian state, but they
are not anything that Nednyahu or even probably any other

(01:45:20):
political coalition that comes to power in Israel is willing
to even think about.

Speaker 5 (01:45:25):
So, you know, I don't really see it happening soon.

Speaker 12 (01:45:27):
I suppose the thing is so unpredictable that he could
just like lash out and declare that he's going to
do something to Saudi Arabia if they don't normalize. But
then it's a real question like, well, how long is
he going to sustain that, and like what does he
do if Saudi Arabia or Mohammad Bensimon himself like snaps
back over this past winter, we saw, for example, as

(01:45:48):
part of that diplomatic riff between the UA and Saudi Arabia,
we saw Amaranti backed forces in Yemen make gains, a
lot of commentary online of like oh Mahma beIN, so
Man is willing to do anything about this, and then
ultimately wind up the Saudi Foreign Ministry condemn the UA's
role in Yemen, and Saudi forces bond like an Amoralti
shipment coming into Yemen. So there's also the potential here

(01:46:11):
as well, like these are two political systems where power
is highly personalized around specific individuals, and so if President
Trump decids to go down that route, is the possibility
for this to become a very personalized conflict, right, And.

Speaker 11 (01:46:24):
I think it's important for listeners to understand the connection
why the Palestinian issue holds such weight for golf leaders.
You mentioned, for example, ethnic and sectarian device in particular
countries I'm thinking Bahram or you know, rising unemployment and
dissent and discontent in places like Saudi Arabia. It's because,

(01:46:44):
either explicitly or implicitly, the Palestinian issue in some parts
of the Gulf is connected to people's anti regime sentiment,
which of course the Iranian regime is very good at
stoking and exploiting, and so it's not just that they're
worried about regional instability outside their borders. It's also, like
you said, there are domestic implications for all these regimes.

Speaker 12 (01:47:07):
Yeah, I think if we want to turn back the
clock to like the first Trump administration and even right
up to October seventh, in places like Saudi Arabia, I
think there was a belief that you could just suppress
people's solidarity with Palestine or that this was like a
dead issue for most Saudi citizens.

Speaker 5 (01:47:26):
But what kind of October seventh.

Speaker 12 (01:47:28):
Showed or changed was that that sentiment had really never
gone away as much as it had seemed, and also
that there's now an entirely new generation that has seen
the atrocities perpetrated in Gaza over the past few years,
that is now well aware of everything has been done,
and this is not something you can hide from people
or pretend that it will go away. And it's even
harder to do so if people aren't seeing kind of

(01:47:50):
rapid economic gains in their own lives, so it becomes
yet another thing that, yeah, if you wanted to fault
South leaders for kind of weakness and the international stage,
if you wanted to fault them for not demonstrating political courage,
that could be a.

Speaker 5 (01:48:08):
Cudgel to use against them.

Speaker 12 (01:48:09):
So inside Saudi Arabia, the one consistent thing over the
past five six seven years is the complete suppression of.

Speaker 5 (01:48:16):
Talking about the Palestinian issue.

Speaker 12 (01:48:18):
Because political authorities are so worried that if people start
talking about one political issue, maybe they start linking into
other concerns. At the same time, there has been a
shift among kind of regime aligned commentators from you if
this we're back in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, you would
hear them say, well, Saudi Arabia is now our country
that acts in its own national interests. That means we

(01:48:39):
don't have to listen to the Palestinian leadership, that's their
own concern. Now you hear kind of same tune, like
different variation, where it's like, because Saudi Arabia is acting
in its own national interest, we can decide that we
want to act in solidarity with the Palestinian leadership, not
just do whatever the West tells us to do. But
then this leads into I think kind of polarization among

(01:49:01):
some of the Gulf countries because it's the exact opposite
dynamic for the UAE, or the UAE goes the route
of presenting itself as closer than ever to the United States,
very aware that they can use Saudi skepticism towards Israel
as something to attack Saudi Arabia in US commentary and
US media markets. And then even if the country seemed

(01:49:23):
to be able to patch these differences up from time
to time, it's going to keep driving them apart as well.

Speaker 11 (01:49:41):
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but during the
first Trump administration, the propaganda around Palestinians emerging from the
UAE was extremely vehement.

Speaker 4 (01:49:52):
Let's say, there was so much.

Speaker 11 (01:49:54):
Rhetoric coming out of UAE government officials and associated influencers
and things like that that was attempting to kind of
change the image of the Palestinian to an Arab audience.
And even though you're right that they are clinging more
than ever to the Abraham Accords. Again, correct me if

(01:50:14):
I'm wrong, but it seems to me that like they
can't do that as much anymore. I'm not seeing as
much of that kind of rhetoric and kind of anti
Palestinian racism that I used to see.

Speaker 12 (01:50:24):
Yeah, and it used to be that you could walk
this like I don't want to call it a fine line,
but you could play this game. I'm more familiar with
this in the Saudi case, but the rhetoric would go.
Of course Audi Davia stands with the Saudi issue, but
the Polsitatian leadership, they would basically adopt the same tropes
we were familiar with the United States, like the pols
Dating leadership never missed an opportunity, to miss an opportunity,
or they would just a direct translation of that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:44):
Yeah, but yeah, it's much harder, like.

Speaker 12 (01:50:46):
You can't get away with that anymore because the pushback
online would be incredibly intense. And likewise, even from the UAE,
we see continued coordination with Israel. But it's interesting how
the UAE denies doesn't confirm certain things, so bombing Iran
during the war, the UA Foreign Ministry kind of there's
a wink, wink, nudge nudge, like, well, look at our

(01:51:07):
policies where we said we were to.

Speaker 5 (01:51:09):
Tell you if we were attacked. Jarirown conclusions.

Speaker 12 (01:51:11):
Whereas when it comes to Benjamin Natanya, who like visiting
the UAE either like absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:51:15):
Not, this is false news.

Speaker 3 (01:51:16):
It did not happen.

Speaker 5 (01:51:17):
Yeah, yeah, And I.

Speaker 12 (01:51:18):
Think that points to the extent to which especially Natanya,
who has become extremely toxic and hard to separate from that,
and that even though I don't think the UA is
going to be hosting any like major Palestinian solidarity events
anytime soon, at the same time, they're not like, you know,
this is not like a warm piece in terms of
how they're approaching israelis either. I'm pretty sure the UA

(01:51:41):
even condemned the recent law like basically allowing executions of.

Speaker 3 (01:51:45):
The death penalty here you will specifically.

Speaker 12 (01:51:48):
Define to basically be Palestinians on the West Bank. Also
condemned Israel's actions in Lebanon as well. So it's become
harder to mount the kind of media campaigns against Palestinians,
I think, partly because they backfire, and then partly in
recognition that like this was done for years and years,
and then ultimately what distinguishes Saudi Arabia from the UA

(01:52:09):
is not that their citizen publics have different views about
the Palestinians, but just that in the UAE you can
surveil coerce and bribe your citizen population so much better
than in Saudi Arabia. It's like, yeah, sorry to be
kind of crass about it, but like the Jews just
doesn't worth the squeeze in terms of the Saudi monarchy relative.

Speaker 5 (01:52:27):
To at least being in this kind.

Speaker 12 (01:52:29):
Of middle path where they're maybe not pushing the United
States too much for Palestinian statehood, but are like doing
at least the bare minimum to keep I guess the
idea of a two state solution alive.

Speaker 11 (01:52:42):
Yeah, and to stay adhering to the Arapeace initiative in
some capacity. What's kind of the takeaway do you think
for all of these countries in the aftermath of this war,
do you foresee a change in their positions visa in
the United States in particular.

Speaker 12 (01:52:57):
For years and years analysts of the Gulf imen talking
about like these states hedging, and I think in one direction,
this war show that like most of that amounted to
just trying to get more concessions from the United States.
Like you had a couple of European countries show up,
you had like Pakistan get involved a little bit, but
their strategies for the course of this war still revolved
around trying to influence us thinking you frame how they

(01:53:21):
were viewed in the United States. But I do think
it is going to trigger changes down the line. Like
we saw Saudi Arabia normalized ties with itr on four
years after the United States failed to intervene after Iranian
line groups attacked Saudi oil fields.

Speaker 5 (01:53:36):
I think something similar here.

Speaker 12 (01:53:37):
What we're going to see developments three or four years
down the line that have been cooking in the background
as a result of what has happened in twenty twenty six.
I think we're starting to see some of that now.
And it's not going to be like, oh, we're going
to get a Chinese military base in the Gulf. It's
going to be other things, like we're seeing Saudi Arabia
try to work with what it used as the other
regional middle powers that can trust and work with Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan.

(01:54:02):
The UAE meanwhile is trying to double or triple down
on its direct security ties with Israel. But I think
the way these ghostates are going to react is going
to figure out, how can we shape the diplomas here
on the region, how can we shape our own security
in ways that don't rely on the United States, but
aren't like how to put it, I think in Washington, DC,

(01:54:25):
because of the obsession with Chinese influence in the world,
there's always this belief of like, oh, like, if not us,
then it will be like the Chinese will be involved.
And I think the reality is going to look very different.
I don't think China wants to get involved in a
security fashion in the Gulf, but there are other countries
that have an interest in some degree of peaceful economic
development or some degree of like maximalized security, and that's
going to be the future of these state security relations.

Speaker 11 (01:54:48):
Well, thank you so much, Andrew. I really appreciate your expertise.
I'll link your profile at Carnegie in the show notes
as well as given that we talked about kind of
the past Indian question in relation to some of these
other issues domestically in the Gulf States, I'll also link
to some of my own research on this topic. So
thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:55:08):
Thanks thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:55:23):
Garrison thinks that's good.

Speaker 10 (01:55:25):
That's good. If we were brave, if.

Speaker 3 (01:55:28):
We will new Halloween, Cotima lotch that's not happening.

Speaker 10 (01:55:32):
A would this is it could happen here? Executive disorder,
our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House,
the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm
Garrison Davis today and joined by Mia Wong, James Stout,
and Robert Evans Eh. This episode recovering the week of
June third to June tenth. James, some small news items
to start.

Speaker 3 (01:55:52):
Yeah, many small things this week. So new details have
emerged about the Santa Rosa Island fire. If you remember,
the fire was started by mariner. At first, it was
reported that the mariner had started the fire by firing
the stress flares. Now appears the mariner's engine caught fire,
starting the fire. Oh, then he fired stress flares. But

(01:56:13):
there's more.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
Okay, how many fires did this guy have involved in
his boating?

Speaker 4 (01:56:18):
Well? He ran into the island next door a week
before okay, oh boy, and was towed by coastguard to
their harbor, where they found that he didn't have a
number of items you have.

Speaker 3 (01:56:30):
To have on his boat for safety equipment reasons. Right,
So they pounded his boat for six days until a
good Samaritan donated those items. He then left the harbor
and crashed into the next island. I think that good
Samaritan made a mistake. I think we can agree it's
not the man now. Yeah, I think doing anything to
enable this man to re float on the Seventh Seas

(01:56:52):
not be in the sea. Yeah, this guy listened to
too much Jimmy Buffett. Yeah. Unfortunately, like this seems to
be one of those situations. He bought the boat for
a single dollar. We generally don't give advice on this podcast,
but I will say you couldn't. It's not uncommon, it's

(01:57:18):
out of California for people to buy boats in order
to find a cheaper place to live. Yes, of course,
things like slip fees, registraction. People don't realizee things. Add that,
I have worked on some old diesel engines on these boats,
they're not particularly straight I'm not a great doing some
characters begin with, but they're not particularly straightforward. And this
results in what I think we have seen here, which

(01:57:40):
is a delta between confidence and ability on the seven season.
This isn't a boat that one should be sending alone,
much less so they only bought a couple of years
ago for a single American dollar. No, I've ported to
destroy a large gradatory pine which only exists there and
here so yeah, I know, be careful that there would

(01:58:01):
be pirates moving on now. I's reported it's nineteenth in
custody death this year when correctional centers Storgia. Yeah, continuing
to set all the worst records. A court has vacated
the president's one hundred thousand dollars h one b visa
tacks cases brought by California al But it's more than

(01:58:21):
a dozen states that will be impacted by the tax.
This is a good one. Gregory Bavino appears to be
eyeing a run of the presidency. Sure, this is interesting,
So he launched an experimental website. Yeah why not? Why fuck?
Like his website at Bavino twenty twenty eight dot com.
The campaign appears to have originated from Jacob Angles. Angles

(01:58:46):
is a right where he's kind of rogersterone prodigy They
broke ways. Angles was appears to be charged for his
methamphetamin possession earlier this year. Oh wow, it was Engles
who was first post this house Bathno. Twenty twenty eight
thing in Bovino's replies and Angele's now pissed is listed
on the Fno twenty twenty eight dot com. Oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
In this house Bavino thing. He's just he watched too
much Game of Thrones, right, That's that's why he's saying that.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
I think so because I looked into it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:18):
That's as far as I can tell, it's him trying
to do like a nightly like with a new nightly order.
I mean, it's it's part of his ess cosplays how
I kind of interpreted it because he clearly is obsessed
with the fucking shut staffel and they were like a
nightly order. And that's I get those vibes from Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:59:35):
Yeah. Like, and if you look at the website right
like you gelt like, he's prominently featured whearing it's now
in famous greatcoat trench cut whenever you want to call
that fucking coat. Yes, I don't know if Baveno, like Brevino,
maybe he's just trying to run this as far as
it'll go, Right, he just lost his job, so maybe
he's looking for like something new to do. Oh sure, Like,

(01:59:56):
I'm not sure how serious Biffrito is with this. You
think he's he's definitely trying to continue to I guess
influence the national discussion. I guess well in the internet.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
I mean, he's hanging out with the fucking Martin Selmer
over in Portugal. He's hang out with at like straight
up like christ Church mass shooting affiliated Nazis, you know,
like he's going for it.

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
Everyone should just scroll down to the foundest section of
this website.

Speaker 4 (02:00:25):
Okay, hold on before before we do that, this link
has now appeared in our group chat. That is the
most Nazi ass like this profile picture thing I have
seen in a long time. It's like a Wolfenstein yeah, right,
but like in the same way that, like they're also
clearly aping from like communist aesthetics, like background, the way

(02:00:48):
he's kind of framed, is this like weird? Yeah, this
is it kind of West German.

Speaker 3 (02:00:52):
I would almost say it's like generic propaganda now, which
is sort of like a mix of like West Germans,
Eastern or easterman us SNRT, like the the use of
bad the use of the olive branches, the.

Speaker 4 (02:01:05):
Sun rays from his body. Yeah, it's just kind of.

Speaker 3 (02:01:09):
Like generic propaganda. House Bavino Men Fight generated image. Right,
So it is.

Speaker 10 (02:01:15):
Based found the way the text is formed, it does
appear to be an AA generated.

Speaker 3 (02:01:19):
It's no property framed right. The framing on the left
and right is thicker than the framing at the top.
There is no framing at the bottom like xametrao.

Speaker 2 (02:01:26):
Shit, oh my god, No, I think we're all missing something,
which is that right underneath the big propaganda image, tiny text,
the words in very tiny text, almost hidden. Bavino knows
what America needs. America's men.

Speaker 3 (02:01:44):
It's not a quotation marks, but no, the slogan of
the campaign is men fight back. Yeah cool?

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
Or the slogan of House Bavino. It's a little unclear.

Speaker 3 (02:01:54):
Yeah right, Maybe maybe it's housed Bavino. Maybe he's struggling
to make rent having lost his job at the Boyd Patrol,
and this is setting up a pot to pay his rent.
But yeah, incredible. Uh wow, the ab Founders section really.

Speaker 4 (02:02:08):
Oh Michael, Okay, I have scroll.

Speaker 10 (02:02:10):
I have scrolled down to the our founder section and there.

Speaker 3 (02:02:14):
Is an incredible specimen.

Speaker 2 (02:02:17):
The a Bold National Strategy part is really upsetting to me. Yeah,
because he's calling himself the Commander and capitalizing the v
N the sea in a very like here's the ways
following the Commander's maximum effectiveness and quelling the foreign hordes
that have subsumed our nation's cities, both large and small.
The American people witnessed what true leadership powered by a

(02:02:39):
warrior mindset actually looks like. Is the Commander endeavored to
restore order and national sovereignty? That is one sentence, second sentence.
America as a whole has already fallen to the grasps
of the foreign global, one world hellscape ushered in by
Barack Hussein Obama.

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
However, we believe that.

Speaker 2 (02:02:56):
The Commander can not only usher in the great restoration
of America, but also cement the continuity of a strong
and sovereign the United States that will last a millennia, a.

Speaker 3 (02:03:04):
Thousand year reich.

Speaker 2 (02:03:05):
In other words, And that also was one sentence. That
is two sentences that I just read. Yeah, I need
to be clear.

Speaker 3 (02:03:10):
Yeah, I become paying. A couple of Gmail addresses are
using here.

Speaker 2 (02:03:14):
Some really small font by the way, curioistically right, Yeah,
Harry inconsistently, This looks like they had Ai lay out
his website too.

Speaker 3 (02:03:23):
But they have one woman on their founders page and
like everyone else here in size like twenty and she's
like size eleven.

Speaker 11 (02:03:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:03:29):
Like the set will have you know, images of him
or of his post where you can see his name,
but it refers to him only as the commander. So
like there's a post of Greg's where it like, it's
the post that he made at the airport where he's
like pointing at the flight to Newark when he was
on his way to Portugal, being like, should I just
handle it myself and you know, go to Jersey to
deal with this? And above that is perhaps I must

(02:03:50):
resolve this personally as a quote the commander challenging the
inertia of the open borders bureaucracy and response to Like
it's written like Greg Bovino became the over dictator of
America and this is a history book sixty years later,
Like that's the way his website is written.

Speaker 3 (02:04:05):
Yeah, it's incredibly low effort.

Speaker 2 (02:04:08):
Yeah, quite concerning, and he really has a high opinion
of himself. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta say that.

Speaker 3 (02:04:15):
Yeah, I do wonder how much this is just angles
just writing this like as a fan.

Speaker 2 (02:04:18):
Yeah, I wonder how much he had to do with this.
But this does not seem like he had nothing to
do with it. I will say that based on my
knowledge of Greg Bavino.

Speaker 3 (02:04:27):
Yeah, he's shared it on his own social media.

Speaker 5 (02:04:30):
Great.

Speaker 10 (02:04:32):
In other news, the months long fight over ICE and
CBP funding has come to an end. In a two
hundred and fourteen to two hundred and twelve vote on Tuesday,
the House has passed a reconciliation bill funding ICE and CBP.

Speaker 3 (02:04:49):
Yeah, this is the so called Secure America Act. Right,
it'll get them seventy billion dollars.

Speaker 4 (02:04:56):
So if we look at that combined with the Big
Beautiful Bill, it's about two hundred forty billion allocated to
them in a single year.

Speaker 3 (02:05:02):
It doesn't mean they have to spend it all this year, right.
The Secure America Act gives them a window up to
September thirty of twenty twenty nine, with no particular allocations
for any given year. To me, that strikes me as
a hedge against funding after the midterms. I think that's
what that's about. Also notable, the Charason said that they
use reconciliation to allow simple majority in the Senate.

Speaker 10 (02:05:23):
We went over the details of a previous version of
this bill a few weeks ago. This money is going
to go towards hiring and arming new officers, hiring more
administrative staff, attorneys, and this is all going to be
towards immigration enforcement, as well as the money allocated for
acquiring new border technology. The one billion dollars of quote
unquote security funding for Trump's ballroom was removed from the

(02:05:48):
bill by the Senate last week. Two other short things
I want to mention. Yesterday a Fedral grand jury indicted
two people in relation to stop copp City protests and
alleged crimes in twenty twenty two. And Wednesday morning, the
FBI rated about seven people in Michigan related to pro

(02:06:12):
Palestine protests at the University of Michigan and protests against
University of Michigan officials. As of recording like this just
happened a few hours ago and relates to an indictment
that was unsealed this morning as well, which charges eight people.
Will cover this more in detail in the future.

Speaker 4 (02:06:30):
Bring to do one more quick segment here, and then
when we return, we're going to talk about the programs
in Belfast.

Speaker 2 (02:06:36):
Yay.

Speaker 10 (02:06:38):
Some updates related to primary elections in Maine. Grand Plattner
has won the Democratic primary with about seventy two percent
of the vote. The governor's race is too close to call,
with the ranked choice voting yet to be tallied. But
I'm keeping my eye on the Sanders and labor back
to candidate Troy Jackson, who campaigned with Platner. Jackson is

(02:06:59):
about nine thousand votes behind the pre ranked choice vote
candidate doctor ni av Shaw. After a week of counting,
we have more definitive results from the elections in California
last week.

Speaker 2 (02:07:14):
Yeah, which a lot of people are saying is an
unforgivable cup of democracy that they counted all the votes
and it took them a while. But yeah, gares, please
continue and we'll talk about the chaos that is being
justified by the fact that this took a while to account.

Speaker 10 (02:07:32):
Tom Steyer will not be making it onto the ballot
this coming November. With ninety one percent of the votes counted,
Steyer has earned one million, nine hundred and twenty eight thousand,
three hundred and eighty one votes, or twenty two point
five percent. Republican Steve Hilton, former Fox News host, has
Edgedtyer out by about two hundred thousand votes, earning twenty

(02:07:56):
five percent of the vote and advancing to the general election,
where he will go up against liberal Democrat Javier Besserra
with twenty seven point nine percent of the vote. Katie
Porter won just under four hundred thousand votes Karen Bass
still leads the LA mayoral primary with ninety five percent

(02:08:16):
of the votes counted. Bass has nearly three hundred thousand votes,
winning thirty four point three percent. Progressive Nythia Rahman has
moved into second place with twenty nine percent, beating Republican
Spencer Pratt with twenty five point five percent. So the
general election we'll see Raman go up against Bass. Reality

(02:08:37):
TV star Spencer Pratt was up in the early vote,
but as Ramond started to pull ahead, Trump and others
began claiming the election was being stolen from Republicans. Pratt
has insinuated that Raman's lead came from LA's homeless population
and must grow oute that quote. The level of fraud

(02:08:58):
here is mind blowing.

Speaker 4 (02:09:01):
Yeah, so homeless people can vote.

Speaker 3 (02:09:03):
Like yeah, provided they are US citizens.

Speaker 2 (02:09:07):
Like yes, yes, it's it's all lies, yeah, I mean,
And a lot of what's even what's being reported in
the Washington Post is straight up lies. Like they just
published an article today that includes this line. And again
the theme of the article is like, well, you know,
obviously this election wasn't stolen, but the fact that it's

(02:09:27):
taken so long is really a problem. You can't actually
blame all these people if they if they think it's suspicious.

Speaker 3 (02:09:34):
This is not evidence of a rigged election, but it
creates fertile ground for conspiracy theories to take root. It
didn't help that Ramen tearfully conceded last Tuesday. But it's
irresponsible for prett to intimate on social media. So we
did not be stolen. She didn't tearfully concede.

Speaker 4 (02:09:47):
It did not happen.

Speaker 2 (02:09:48):
That never happened. That Washington Post lied, like that's just
in a post article. That's just a lie by the
Washington Post, like an intentional lie, I would.

Speaker 3 (02:09:57):
Are incredible, I guess to just going today's toe, people understand,
like you know, like I've written for broadsheet newspapers, several people.
This is not one person fucking up, right, This is
an institutional fuck up. This was a choice. Yeah, it
was a choice to get this wrong. The person whose
name is on the byline wrote that, Yes, an editor
then edited, a copy editor then edited it, and then
somebody laid it out for the website.

Speaker 5 (02:10:18):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:10:19):
And you know this if you're listening and your work
for the Post, you know this. You know that your editors,
your bosses and your colleagues chose to lie and are
choosing to continue to lie and spread lies through their publication.
You're aware of this if you weren't there still.

Speaker 3 (02:10:32):
Anyway.

Speaker 10 (02:10:33):
And Benny Johnson, Tempoole or Ingram and Sean Hannity are
alleged that Democrats stole the election, and Trump has continued
to make claims that the election was rigged. Quote here
we go with the very late and massive numbers of
mail in ballots.

Speaker 3 (02:10:49):
You no shit truthed? Sorry, yeah, man, it's convenient.

Speaker 10 (02:10:53):
Yeah, eternal twenty twenty Trump truth earlier this week quote
not possible for Spencer Pratt? Do you have lost the
l A runoffs after the big lead he had Third
world nation.

Speaker 3 (02:11:05):
On quote do you understand what the word nation means?

Speaker 9 (02:11:08):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:11:10):
I didn't think they They tell these truth.

Speaker 10 (02:11:12):
I don't think he understands how election works, obviously, or
he does and he's just saying what he needs to
say here. Notably, on Sunday, Trump stormed out of an
interview on Meet the Press when asked if he had
any evidence of quote unquote cheating in California.

Speaker 5 (02:11:28):
The election was rigged.

Speaker 7 (02:11:30):
It was a dirty election. This is happening again right
now in Californa. Now in California, right now, it's looking.
Look at what's happening in California.

Speaker 4 (02:11:41):
It's in California.

Speaker 7 (02:11:44):
It's now, they're not there. They're dropping fast because it's
a rigged election. Let me tell you, it's four days
and they aren't even close to coming up there.

Speaker 3 (02:11:54):
Why they're doing that.

Speaker 7 (02:11:55):
Because they're cheating on the election.

Speaker 3 (02:11:56):
There's what do you have evidence?

Speaker 10 (02:11:59):
I have to do his Look all you have to
do is look is he in front of a green
screen that depicts a johnde At tractor and plan to
know they are in Wisconsin in some kind of barn
and it's raining outside in this barn with the John
Deere tractor and like haybells. It's an interesting kind of
like real world set they have.

Speaker 3 (02:12:18):
Yeah okay, and the focus is very weird.

Speaker 4 (02:12:21):
Like the Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:12:22):
Trump later called vote counting in California quote unquote crooked,
just like how the press is crooked.

Speaker 4 (02:12:28):
Quote you're either crooked or you're stupid.

Speaker 10 (02:12:31):
You know that these elections are rigged, Your network knows
that they're rigged.

Speaker 4 (02:12:36):
You were like a third world country.

Speaker 7 (02:12:38):
Your elections are crooked, and you're crooked and least the
press is crooked, show is ABC and CBS and CNN.
You're one sided crooked network. Let's call it quicks because
I've had enough.

Speaker 4 (02:12:51):
Thank you, Darling.

Speaker 5 (02:12:52):
Goods the president.

Speaker 10 (02:12:53):
Let's please I travel all the way to Wisconsin.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
God, that's embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (02:12:59):
Yeah, just being mean to him, be rude, yell at him,
call him a fucking liar, scream at him. Stop doing
this bullshit like I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for that.

Speaker 4 (02:13:08):
Like people booed him, dreamed the national anthem at a
Knicks game. You can fucking do this.

Speaker 2 (02:13:13):
Scream at him, call him a piece of shit, like
you know, you're not getting anything out of just letting
him talk, paull him a liar, shout over him. Yeah,
stop particular, Yeah, yeah, fucking cowards.

Speaker 3 (02:13:24):
I'm sorry, and yeah, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 10 (02:13:27):
I think we should definitely pay attention to the fact
that Trump did cause the Knicks to lose that game.

Speaker 3 (02:13:32):
Yeah he did. Did he did?

Speaker 2 (02:13:34):
And honestly, it's that's what I like about him because
it continues James.

Speaker 4 (02:13:38):
Streak of.

Speaker 13 (02:13:40):
House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about these claims on
Monday and said that the vote counting in California quote
unquote stinks to high heaven, and that the schemes are
so quote unquote diabolical that it's impossible to prove election ragging.

Speaker 12 (02:13:57):
The present keeps.

Speaker 4 (02:13:57):
Saying that there's election fraud in the California marraw is.

Speaker 5 (02:14:00):
What evidence is there to prove them?

Speaker 3 (02:14:02):
You tell me, Manu.

Speaker 14 (02:14:04):
They are counting votes weeks after the election. We have
entire nations with huge populations, like India that can count
their votes.

Speaker 5 (02:14:11):
In twenty four to four saying it's rigged, like the president.

Speaker 14 (02:14:13):
I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying it stinks to
high heaven, and everybody knows that. Let's let's let's remove
the appearance of impropriety. Let's have what a concept, Let's
have votes on an election the day of the election.
That's what many states are able to do. I think
California is playing around with us.

Speaker 4 (02:14:30):
But what evidence is there to prove that there is ringing?

Speaker 14 (02:14:33):
I don't Some of these efforts are so diabolical and
so far upstream it is impossible to prove. But I
think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here.

Speaker 10 (02:14:41):
So this is I think very clearly a preview of
what's to come in the interim election. Yeah, for sure,
and they are kind of laying this out here. It's
of course impossible to prove, but we all know that
it's wrong.

Speaker 5 (02:14:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:14:54):
This is going to be every election for the rest
of our life.

Speaker 2 (02:14:56):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but there's going to be anything that
happened that does not meet the increasingly fanciful version of
reality they have to believe. Right, it's not just elections,
it's literally any fact that like is inconvenient. There's any
storm that shouldn't have happened based on when they think
a storm should happen, right, Yeah, this is just life now.

Speaker 3 (02:15:18):
Yeah, it's necessary to create the version of reality that
they're existing in.

Speaker 10 (02:15:23):
Yeah, we're gonna go on break and then discuss the programs.

Speaker 6 (02:15:26):
In Northern Ireland, we are the fat ooh yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:15:45):
On Tuesday July ninth, This is the day before we
are recording this, which is important because we don't know
how that's going to proceed from here when you're listening
to it. But on June ninth, there were widespread attacks
on the homes of non white people in Ireland in
what I and many others have described as a poke
rom mass assailants kicked down doors, forced on white people

(02:16:09):
from their homes, and lit houses and cars on fire.
People were being stopped in the streets. I'm going to
read a little bit from a report from Henel Aufman,
who was on the scene reporting on what was going on. Quote,
as a woman from an ethnic minority background looked down
from an upstairs window, some of the men rushed the

(02:16:31):
front door and broke it down, with the attack thick
with smoke from fireworks. They attacked the downstairs windows with
bricks as they stormed the property. Some claim to be
quote liberating it. Graffiti nearby demanded quote local homes for
local people. A woman in the crowd said to her friend,
quote there's wee girls inside.

Speaker 9 (02:16:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:16:54):
It is an extremely bleak and worrying event. The nominal
cause of this program was a video of a stabbing
in Belfast that has gone viral on social media, which
has been amplified by writing forces both in Ireland, the
UK and across the world, probably most famously by Elon Musk.

(02:17:16):
We will touch on that more in a second, but
before we say anything about the broader context, I think
it's important to state two things here. One Ireland and also,
particularly the factions of Irish politics are going to be
getting to here has had racism problems long before any
of these events. Famously, you know, if you want to
look at the most immediate stuff in the recent past,

(02:17:39):
exactly one year ago today in Northern Ireland there was
a smaller race riot. There was a smaller scale version
of the thing we're seeing here, with less damage, but
still you know, absolutely terrifying effects.

Speaker 2 (02:17:54):
This very much rhymes with the race riots that we
saw in the UK a couple of years ago. Yeah,
like a similar, similar deal, similar motivation, mobs attacking hotel
that point is more focused on hotels that refugees were
believed at.

Speaker 3 (02:18:08):
But yeah, like you were saying, we basically the same idea.

Speaker 4 (02:18:11):
Yeah, these are white mobs. It's also I think important
to note, on top of just the general sort of
racism of virus society, this program is largely taking place
in loyalist neighborhoods. You know, these are places with very
very long standing far right paramilitaries, with very close ties
to the police. A lot of the people in the
streets are you know, sort of parts of old loyalist

(02:18:34):
paramilitary and criminal networks. These are in many cases like
believed to be the same networks that you know, we're
doing shit during the troubles and have been active in
various forms throughout the occupation of Ireland and deportation's. Belfast
notes that leaked emails from police after the twenty twenty
five riots they are from the riots themselves, and they said, quote,

(02:18:56):
it is important for you to understand our expectations. Unless
there is an obvious article to issue, we do not
expect you to expose yourself to significant unnecessary risk. So
what that in effect is saying is that this is
in effect a standown order. If you don't if you
think that anything would be even.

Speaker 3 (02:19:15):
Let the mobs see what they're gonna do.

Speaker 4 (02:19:17):
Yeah, right, And that's just the stuff. This is from
the twenty twenty five riots. Presumably similar orders went out
during these riots. And that's just the stuff that they
sent via email, right, that that has been leaked out.
The police, again very notably, did very very little while
all of this was happening, while people's houses were being
burned down, while people were being dragged out of their homes.

(02:19:38):
These attacks also come after weeks of far right discourse
in the UK about like the killings of two white
men by non white men. Yeah, I mean on the BBC,
they are having debates about whether there is a quote
two tiered police system, which you know, when I initially

(02:19:58):
saw that, I was confused, because, yeah, two tier police
system has been the way that you know, like anti
anti police violence activists have talked about the way the
police system functions. Where there is a way the police
functions for white people, which is that it treats them stiff,
cant better, and then there's the way it works for
non white people. The far right has flipped this on
his head and is now arguing to an extent that
he's now sort of national discourse on the fucking BBC

(02:20:19):
is arguing that there is a two tier police system
where non white people are a lot off the hook
for their crimes and where white people aren't protected by
the law. This is nonsense, but it has been spreading rapidly,
pushed by far right actors like Tommy Robinson and of
course Elon Musk. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20:38):
Yeah, Musk specifically has been really pushing Yeah, and he
was he was a big figure too in what happened
in the UK a bit ago.

Speaker 4 (02:20:45):
Yeah, and the twenty twenty five Irish riots too.

Speaker 3 (02:20:48):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (02:20:49):
And he's been NonStop pushing and making posts, making claims
to the extent of like we need to the only
way things will get better is if we keep protesting.
You know, this has to be handled like forcefully, like
that sort of shit, like.

Speaker 3 (02:21:01):
He has been.

Speaker 2 (02:21:02):
He has been basically devoting, as far as I can tell,
the week that he is about to have and or
that he is having his IPO, devoting the majority of
his time to in siding up agram.

Speaker 3 (02:21:12):
Yes, seems to be.

Speaker 4 (02:21:14):
Yeah. He retweeted a post from Restore Britain, which is
a somehow even further right just yeah, straight up effectively
fascist party, even further right than the already horrifying Reform Party,
saying quote, do not make peace with evil, destroy it. Yeah.
There's another one where he's like, either you fight back

(02:21:35):
or you die. That's what it comes down to. There's
been a lot of comparisons between Elon Musk and Radio Rwanda,
which is a radio outlet that was broadcasting calls for THEOND.

Speaker 3 (02:21:45):
Just well, and that's that's not accurate really, but you're
referring to ATLM right, Radio Television Lib. Yes, that RADIOOND
is a different thing. Oh sorry, am I like rady
Render is a currently existing corporation, so we need to
be extremely clear in our terminology.

Speaker 2 (02:22:04):
Let me be very clear here because I actually had
this pulled up for this. OURTLM was the radio station
that is often accused of helping to coordinate or some
people will just say stood up and cited the genocide.
It was owned by a guy named Felician Kabuga, who
was an extremely wealthy Rwandan man and who was personally
very much involved in like wanting to.

Speaker 3 (02:22:26):
Push for the genocide.

Speaker 2 (02:22:27):
RTLM regularly called Tucci's cockroaches and encouraged people to cut
down the tall trees. However, there are also good reasons
why this is not quite as direct as it seems.
H TLM did not coordinate attacks, they did not plan
specific actions, and analysis in the modern day has shown

(02:22:47):
that a lot of the worst massacres, in fact, the
majority of the worst massacers, did not have any direct
relation to our TLM. Now, RTLM's propaganda and broadcasts played
a role in the genocide and incited and continued to
like escalate the violence. But it's not exactly I would argue.
It looks like and we Also, we don't have perfect
analysis of what's just happened in Northern Ireland, so maybe

(02:23:10):
this will prove to me wrong. It looks like what
Musk is doing has more of a direct positive effect. Yeah,
but that's also not clear to me at the moment.

Speaker 4 (02:23:19):
Yeah. Yeah, my estimation so far. But again, like this
is changing my estimation so far is that I think
it is actually closer to it in that I think
I think even if Musk isn't there, something like this happens, sure,
because I think a lot of this is mobilization through
like very local Irish political forces in these sort of
unionist networks.

Speaker 2 (02:23:36):
But it's also really difficult to say just because all
of those networks have been heavily influenced by Musk's X
in the lasts two.

Speaker 3 (02:23:45):
So it's yeah, I don't know how you want to Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:23:49):
And it's feeding off of like a decade of intensifying
anti immigrant sentiment across the UK, including Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Speaker 4 (02:23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:23:57):
And this is also something that people will point out
when you're talking Aboutanda and RTLM, which is that like,
well as much blame as you want to give RTLM
and some of these other media organizations that unquestionably had
some role in motivating and fueling what happened.

Speaker 3 (02:24:12):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (02:24:13):
I mean the root of the Rwandan genocide comes from
the period of colonialism when the Tutsies were like a
favored group of people within the country, which is what
started a lot of these like underlying hatreds, right, is
the way in which the colonial power played these different
groups off of each other.

Speaker 3 (02:24:29):
So anyway, whatever, Yeah, this is always the case.

Speaker 2 (02:24:31):
It's always going to be deeper than some guy has
a media outlet.

Speaker 3 (02:24:35):
Right, that doesn't mean the media al it is not
involved in what's Yeah, it's the same in Rwanda, right,
like we had the intrahamway like right, like they existed
and they give it distinct from RTLM. But like the
environment that allows those two things to happen. Nothing's monocles.
People want to do this in history.

Speaker 2 (02:24:52):
Now, and it's the difficult thing of both. It's very
important to point out when something like this rhymes was
something that happened in a jitocide they killed a million people.
And also the more you learn about stuff like this
when people make those comparisons, the more learned people are like,
well that's not quite right.

Speaker 3 (02:25:07):
Actually, this is it was a little different then, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:25:11):
Yeah, the Genocybe Memorial Museum in Kigati is the most
moving museum.

Speaker 3 (02:25:16):
If it's stud in my life, it's incredible. If you
have the giant table in Chuka. We need to do
more inmbastards on Rwanda. But yeah, anyway, wonderful country.

Speaker 4 (02:25:26):
Yeah. The one thing I also want to mention sort
of different closing here, is that you know, again, like
part of the reason this is happening, part of the
reason it's been a lot of you know, these of
these unionist networks. Part of the reason it's happening the
way that it is is that this is a very
very old white supremacist project, going back like you know,
like through the British occupation of Ireland, right, and it's

(02:25:46):
a project that's been aligned with like the Randouins were
once British in the sense of like like the you know,
this this is carrying on the sort of long imperial
British tradition is like the world one of the world's
largest and most blooding and ruthless bite supremacist organizations.

Speaker 3 (02:26:03):
Yeah, we talked about this in the meeting we were
having beforehand, but like loyalists in Northern Ireland have regularly
made a habit of particularly in the seventies and eighties,
displaying Rhodesia flags, in the nineties apartheid South Africa flags.
It's very common. Flags like you open.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:26:23):
Partly is a direct response to the internationalism of republicanism.
They just decided to align with the worst people on
the planet.

Speaker 5 (02:26:29):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (02:26:30):
Yeah, there'll be another episode of Up on this Monday
that goes into more detail and we'll have more information
as it comes out. This is again a rapidly training situation.
There might be more.

Speaker 3 (02:26:40):
Time you hear it.

Speaker 4 (02:26:41):
Days of this. It's possible that the police will crack
down harder because there's been some pressure put on them
by basically every government's involved in this, but we just
simply don't know that at this time. And yeah, I
see absolutely horrifying day.

Speaker 3 (02:26:58):
Yeah, pretty hard to see through. Immigration in the US
now another country where things going great. So a judge
has ruled that Trump administration's broad restrictions on asylum and
work permit. These were issued after the shooting of two
National Guards people in DC are unlawful. Quote from the
court order here, more than six months to go. The

(02:27:20):
United States Citizenship and Immigration Services in acted a series
of policies through the lives of countless immigrants living in
the United States into indeterminate legal limbo. The agency announced
that it will be placing an indefinite pause on the
adjudication of immigration benefit requests from individuals from thirty nine African, Asian,
Latin American, and Middle Eastern countries. Since then, individuals from
these countries have been categorically barred from receiving final decisions on,

(02:27:42):
among other things, their asylum work permit, Greek caard and
citizenship application. And USCIS hold on judications cannot be attributed
to anything that these individuals did wrong. Rather, ed arises
solely by the hapbitance of their birth. And then I
found this interesting in the court documents here in ruling
on these motions of court is reminded of a line

(02:28:03):
often repeated in discussions around immigration policy. If people wish
to immigrate to the United States, they ought to follow
the law and do things the right way. This case
serves as a perfect example of immigrants doing just that.
They went on to say that the USCAS had used
what they called pretextual concerns of national security that mask

(02:28:24):
anti immigrant sentiment that is forbidden from letting influence its
decision making legal terms. That means that us cis IS
actions are a contrary to law, arbitrary and capricious. There's a
fairly like emphatic court response. Right, this will affect a
great deal of people. It has left a great deal
of people in limbo.

Speaker 4 (02:28:43):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:28:44):
Most famously, I guess there were people who were at
the natural the stage of their naturalization where they take
the oath to become American citizens, right, the very final step.
It is obviously a formality. You've passed the background checks,
done the interviews, et cetera, et cetera, but it's still
a necessary step. Without doing it, you do not become
a citizen. And those people had been delayed unable to
do that. They will be able to proceed with that.

(02:29:05):
Other people will be able to proceed with their process
with the caveat that, uscas, if we have reported before
in the show, is heavily focused on denaturalization, and it
might be very hard for them to actually make that
progress and get USCIS to move on stuff. Talking of
de naturalization, the DOJ has begun proceedings against seventeen people

(02:29:27):
IS people are either accused or convicted of serious crimes.
What it seems that in most cases people have been
adjudicated to have committed crimes. In some cases they played
guilty to crimes after they naturalized, but that they were
doing before they naturalized. And what they are arguing here,
the DOJ is arguing is that therefore they lied when

(02:29:49):
they were naturalized because they were asked if they had
committed any crimes which they had not been arrested. So
by not confessing to those crimes in their interview, they
were therefore or lying. They were lying on the forum yes,
on the form or in the interview, or both, and
therefore that is why they are trying to de naturalizing.
This is a large denaturalization. Seventeen people, there's a lot.

(02:30:11):
A couple of them are so relged to have applied
for immigration benefits under multiple different identities. One that I
found particularly interesting is a Catholic priest who abused a
minor parishioner. It's just interesting because it's interesting to see
them going there. I'll follow these and kind of keep
tabs on how these progress, but that they have been
ramping up denaturalizations. This we are beginning to see them

(02:30:34):
kind of reaping the work USCS has been doing since
the Trump administration fundamentally turned that agency around and pointed
it at denaturalization. Meanwhile, a GAO reportant immigration detension in
Camp East Montana. I've never seen it written like Montagna
with so I'm guessing it's Camp mon like like Joe Montana.

Speaker 4 (02:30:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:30:55):
Well like I they write it says Montana, so like,
I don't know, it didn't Bliss right, like it's inside
Fort Bliss, so like one would expect normally, like a
Spanish style pronunciation given the region. Yeah, but maybe they
just like a fucking end yet I don't know, like
why they're not anyway, it's Camp. Its name is spelled
like the state, not the not the Spanish word for mountain.

(02:31:19):
Some of the things detailed in the support are pretty shocking.
A guard lost a loaded gun. Yeah, people with diabetes
and HIV did not receive treatment plans and quote on Jesus.

Speaker 6 (02:31:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:31:31):
On Febuar twenty twenty twenty six, ICE issued a discrepancy
report for a detained nonsense and death by use of force.
In January of twenty twenty six, the coroner's autopsy found
the death to be a homicide due to asphyxiate. However,
the contractor did not provide use of force and death
reports to ICE as required. In addition, evidence associated with
the incident was missing or destroyed.

Speaker 4 (02:31:52):
Jesus, Yeah, like one of their cards strangled someone to death,
it appears, Yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (02:31:57):
Is the range of way someone could be asphyxiated, right,
like A yeah, that's true, but I'm guessing the attempting
to restrain this person violently and like as we've seen
many other times in American history, murdered them and then
evidence of that was destroyed. What is allowing this to
happen is that the contract was solicited using a worldwide

(02:32:18):
Expeditionary Multiple Award contract vehicle that's generally like a military
contract vehicle. It allows and experienced pool of military contractors
to apply for the contract. They probably did it like
this to expedite the awarding implementation, right like Eastpontana's a
soft sided facility on Fort Blaze. I've talked about it
before here. Soft side facility means tense, right, it means

(02:32:41):
keeping hundreds of people intense. They hired a contractor who
had no experience using what's called a lowest price technically
acceptable evaluation approach, so they filter out people who can't
do the requirements that they have for the contract, and
then they look at which of the ones it does
meet the requirements has the lowest price.

Speaker 5 (02:33:01):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:33:02):
This has resulted very clearly in them contracting someone who
is completely incapable of managing a facility like this, and
even among ice facilities, this one appears to be particularly heinous.
And this has resulted in very, very predictable and easily
foreseen human tragedies. Right, they are capable of doing better
than this. Conditions were very bad bliss for afghan people, right,

(02:33:26):
who came here after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I wrote
about that for the nation. You can look it up.
I they interview to someone who was there. But this
is even worse. Rather than learning from that, they've just
gone deeper. This has resulted in at least one person
being killed. It's pretty horrific.

Speaker 10 (02:33:45):
Let's go and break and then we will return for
some stories about trans healthcare and war with Iran.

Speaker 4 (02:34:05):
All right, we are back.

Speaker 10 (02:34:07):
I have a sort of hodgepodge collection of stories related
to trans healthcare and trans writes to the United States
that I'm going to go kind of sequentially, and they
some of them tied together. But let's start with the
trans military ban. We've been upted on this. A federal
appeals court has at least temporarily blocked the Pentagon from

(02:34:30):
expelling transgender members of the military, though trans people may
be barred from enlisting. So this is kind of sort
of like a new form of don't ask, don't tell,
in a way of you can get in if you're
not trans, but once you're in and you are trans,
there's no legal grounds to remove you from the military.

(02:34:52):
This was a two to one ruling that found hag
Set's anti trans policy was quote driven by the bare
desire to harm of politically unpopular group and quote both
arbitrary and based on animus. For those reasons, the policy
violates the plaintiff Apelli's constitutional right to equal protection of

(02:35:12):
the law unquote the last, but is very important, like
the equal protection clause in cases like this is going
to be the main thing that trans people are able
to rely on now. Circuit Judge Robert Wilkins and Obama
appointe wrote that the Trump admin claimed their anti trans
policy is solely about whether the military can disqualify people

(02:35:33):
from service due to a mental health condition like gender dysphoria.
Judge Wilkins wrote, quote, but the record shows that the
purpose of the haig Seth policy is to target applicants
and service members who express what the administration believes is
a quote unquote false gender identity, and the policy goes
far beyond disqualifying persons currently or recently suffering from gender dysphoria.

(02:35:58):
Some of those disqualifications are completely unexplained and have no
reasonable justification unquote. Haig Seth almost immediately announced he is
appealing to the Supreme Court. Oh boy, we will see
where this goes.

Speaker 6 (02:36:11):
YEP.

Speaker 10 (02:36:12):
Last month, the DOJ announced a settlement with the Texas
Children's Hospital as part of an ongoing national investigation into
violations of federal law for providing gender affirming care to miners.
The Texas Children's Hospital has entered into agreements with both
the DOJ and the Texas Aturney General Ken Paxton that

(02:36:33):
includes a commitment to not perform quote unquote sex rejecting
procedures on minors, which the DOJ says includes puberty blockers
and cross sex hormones. This is a new term that
they're really really rolling out it's sex rejecting procedures. That
you're going to see this a lot more in these
next few weeks to months.

Speaker 4 (02:36:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:36:56):
The hospital in Texas also agreed to pay over ten
million dollars in damages and civil penalties to quote resolve
allegations that it submitted false billings to public and private
payers to secure insurance coverage for pediatric sex rejecting procedures.
The Department alleges this conduct violated the Federal Food, Drug,

(02:37:17):
and Cosmetic Act, the False Claims Act, and federal Fraud
and Conspiracy laws un quote. So they're saying that by
billing insurance with their public or private for quote unquote
sex rejecting procedures trans healthcare, that this was an act
of fraud. Now, this is a settlement, and at the
end of the settlement they do note that these are

(02:37:38):
just allegations that these have not actually been proven. The
liability has not been proven in a court, but these
are the allegations that resulted in the settlement. Now, as
a part of the settlement, the Children's Hospital will also
open the first ever quote unquote D transition clinic. So
D transition Care is the same as transition care. Right,

(02:37:58):
it is the same type of care. Yeah, I know this,
This is like what I do. There's not enough D
transitioners out in the world to sustain an actual full clinic,
which points to the fact that this clinic is not
gonna be used for consenting D transition. This is mainly
going to be used as a conversion therapy clinic for

(02:38:19):
kids who want to transition but are now going to
be forced to go to a clinic like this because
they're not able to get their healthcare through this hospital
or really like in Texas as a minor. The Cleveland
Clinic in Ohio settled a very similar case last week,
paying three hundred and eight thousand dollars fine and agree

(02:38:43):
to dedicate two million dollars in funds for D transition
care while promising to not provide gender firming healthcare to
minors for twenty years. That is the part of the
settlement in the Cleveland Clinic case. God In mid May,
Oklahoma passed a bill prohibiting Medicaid coverage of gender affirming care,

(02:39:05):
including surgery and HRT, as well as offering this care
in state owned facilities. The bill does not cut funding.
Two doctors at private health care facilities to provide HRT,
as I have seen some claim online. This, like many
of the Medicaid restrictions, primarily effects horror trans people on

(02:39:25):
state Medicaid and may make care hard to access in
the future, depending on how private hospitals react to this bill,
even though it does not necessarily force them to change
the way they operate. Lastly, later this summer, New York
City will begin testing a pilot program for a direct,

(02:39:46):
low slash, no cost gender affirming care clinic for adults,
opening in a low income neighborhood in Queens. I think
this is a good first step in providing access to care,
considering the Trump administration's threats to restrict Medicaid and Medicare
coverage or remove Medicare Medicaid eligibility from hospitals that provide

(02:40:06):
firming care services. But as we know, trans youth have
borne the brunt of these threats. Now, Bozmandani and the
City Health Commissioner have said they are working to expand
city provided gender firming care services to cover trans youth.
Commissioner Martin told the City Council last Friday, quote, we
are committed to this issue and want to make sure
that we provide the services and resources for youth, as

(02:40:29):
well as making sure we don't expose ourselves to clawbacks
from the federal government which disrupt the rest of the
care we can give. There's much more to come on this,
but rest assured we are working on this un quote.
Something that is worth understanding here is that this new
pilot program, this city run low slash, no cost dropping clinic,

(02:40:50):
is completely separate from the city's H and H Municipal
Hospital system, which already operates multiple H and H Pride
centers that currently offer youth gender firming care, including HRT.
I called one this morning to confirm that they are
still offering services to children people of all ages.

Speaker 5 (02:41:11):
Now.

Speaker 10 (02:41:11):
H and H is funded through city subsidies and patient
revenue through Medicare. The new pilot program is attempting to
launch an alternative care service that isn't reliant on insurance
or federal funding if that comes into question, and they're
trying to get this clinic up and running off the
ground as soon as possible, and then once the pilot
program is tested expanded. Last week, Mom Donnie announced a

(02:41:36):
fifteen million dollar investment in gender firming care quote unquote
as a first step, and said that the phones would
be used to quote unquote unlock care for youth who
have had their healthcare restricted by private hospitals. So it's
currently unclear how exactly these funds will be used. For
a while, advocates in New York City and state were
fighting for care in the state budget, which delayed some

(02:41:57):
of the process on this city prom care because they
were expecting about eight million dollars of care from the
state budget, which eventually fell through. So now the city
process is ramping up on us. Earlier this year, two
major hospital systems in New York City stopped providing gender
firming care to trans youth ahead of prospective HHS federal

(02:42:19):
rule changes that would prevent hospitals from receiving federal funding
if they offer gender firming care services to youth. These
rules have yet to go in effect, but two major
hospitals essentially complied beforehand. The risks from the federal government
aren't just isolated to restricting federal funding. The trip administration
has employed a variety of threats in an attempt to

(02:42:40):
intimidate patients and care providers. Last month, the two hospitals
that discontinued care for trans youth received a criminal grand
jury subpoena from the US Attorney's Office in the Northern
District of Texas requesting information on pagans under eighteen years
of age. At least one of the hospitals, Mount Sinai,
is complying with the subpoena, though telling parents the records

(02:43:03):
would be anonymized.

Speaker 3 (02:43:05):
Whatever that means.

Speaker 4 (02:43:06):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:43:07):
A group of trans New Yorkers who have received care
at Nyu Langoon and their parents have filed a class
action lawsuit to protect their medical records. Though patients at
Mount sign I could also sign on to this suit.
The suit has extended the deadline for the subpoena till
late June, as both the hospital and patients fight this

(02:43:30):
in court. A similar administrative subpoena requesting records for youth
patients was challenged and successfully blocked in Rhode Island. These
subpoenas should be fought on the strongest grounds by both
the patients, the state, the city, and the hospitals themselves
and beyond the all ages care currently offered by the
h h HELL system. I think it was also fair

(02:43:52):
to advocate that the direct slow no cost drop and
clinic expand to cover all ages once thelot program is
up and running this summer.

Speaker 3 (02:44:03):
We'll briefly discuss the detention of an ICE officer and
the war on Iran. We do have a good ICE
arrest for you this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one
good out theorist. Right, let's just start there then. So,
Henepin County Attorney has file charges against ICE agent Christian Castro.
Castro was arrested in Texas. He is arrested by Texas

(02:44:26):
rangers with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension investigators and
DHS Security Office of the Inspector General staff at the scene.
According to a statement by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office,
Castro was charged with four counts of second degree assault
and one count of falsely reporting a crime for an
incident on January fourteen, twenty twenty six, when he discharged
his weapon through the front door of a home, knowing

(02:44:48):
there were people who had just run inside. The bullet
traveled through the door and struck oneing victim in the
leg before making its final impact in the wall of
a child's room. They didn't know in this that the
case be removed to federal court, but they say that
he would still be ineligible for presidential pardon. It is
not usual when announcing any prosecution to consider the impact

(02:45:11):
of a presidential pardon. It is interesting that they did.
The case in question refers to Castro shooting of Julio
Soce Elise, in which the DHS claimed that Soca Salise
and two others attacked Castro with a broom at a
snowshovel and that Castro quote fired the defensive shot to
defend his life. DHS very quickly dropped its case put

(02:45:32):
two agents on leave for providing accounts that contradicted by
video evidence. Probably Castro was one of them, right. This
is interesting a that they were able to obtain the
DHSOIG support. I had forgotten the DHSOIG were still doing
stuff like this. To be honest, I didn't think they were.
So this will be one that we will follow. That

(02:45:53):
only leaves us with Iran, where this week a United
States a patch helicopter was people have been using shot down.
I'm not sure if it was shot. It was taken
down reportedly by an Iranian drone and reportedly by a
collision with that drone. It's possible that it's happened accidentally,

(02:46:18):
but given other things we've seen right with in Ukraine,
for example, it is possible to take down a helicopter
with FPV drone, that would be my guess as to
what happened here. Its crew were then rescued from the
straight of horn moves by another drone, an uncrewed surface vessel.
The US only bought these online in March of this year,

(02:46:39):
so this is the first time that we're aware of
that they were using this capacity. Right, So, this is
like a boat drone, an uncrewed surface vessel, and it
scooped well, I didn't scoop them up. They got on it.
It collected them and then it took them to a
second location where a helicopter was able to lift them up.
As a direct result, and according to a saint combat
the direct order of the President, the USN began self

(02:47:01):
defense I'm quoting here right, quote unquote self defense strikes
against Iran. They claim these strikes where a quote unquote
warning shot and will not impact negotiations. But as we
record this on Wednesday afternoon, they have just announced another
series of strikes. This all comes after Israel and Iran
exchanged missile Salvos when Iran responded to Israeli bombing and

(02:47:26):
bait route and the who Thies have also claimed a
missile attack on Israel and have said that they would
begin targeting Israeli shipping. Again, we already teetering around the
edge of this becoming a massive international conflict in a region. Again,
that mean it is a massive international conflict, right, but
returning to these full scale conflict that we saw until

(02:47:48):
the ceasefire, which has been repeatedly violated, but the nonetheless
has reduced the amount of bombing that's happening. Israel also
bombed Palestine this week. Among the people killed was an
eight year old boy named Judd Soliman in northern Gaza,
which is tragic. Yeah, we'll keep reporting on this, Like
I've tried really hard not to make our coverage of

(02:48:10):
especially what's happening on around Twitter review because real people
are killing and real people are dying, and like it's
it's focusing on the stupid ship that the president said
or that you know, net Yahoo said on Twitter, Like
it'sn't a true social converted to Twitter or whatever, Like
that's not really what's such steak here? Like, what's such
steak is people's lives, and so I want to kind

(02:48:31):
of avoid doing the back and forth social media review.
But yeah, that's what I got this week. Cool oh
breaking news as we as we go to press here,
the Berlin Zoo has announced the name of its newborn
pygmy hippopotamus, and.

Speaker 2 (02:48:48):
I thought Hitler was a mistake. I'm gonna be honest
with you, guys. I don't think that's an appropriate name
for them.

Speaker 3 (02:48:59):
I drop link in the chat so you can appreciate it.
It's like a new moodang just dropped moment. They are
calling it brochen brochun and you speak German.

Speaker 2 (02:49:09):
Sure, okay, guys, that's that's martius. Yeah, good work, guys.
That sounds like a candy children aren't legally allowed to
eat in my country.

Speaker 3 (02:49:21):
Another dub for German marketing. It means bread roll. I
guess it is a very cute hippopotomist. That's a pretty
cute name. It would be a cute name.

Speaker 4 (02:49:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I guess if you're German, it's
a cute name. Hit us up German language listeners. Does
it seem cute to you?

Speaker 8 (02:49:35):
Now?

Speaker 3 (02:49:35):
Don't because you'll just get angry. At us for not
understanding your strange language. In my defense, you live outside
of America, the only other country in the world, right, Yeah,
I think that's it. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore
the Iran reporting that. Yeah, yeah, we just well we'll.

Speaker 4 (02:49:50):
Not mention that. Email us at fool Zone, tips at
proton dot me. Some of you marketing fuckers are still
trying remarkable.

Speaker 3 (02:49:58):
I'm pretty sure it's one person who just create new
new aliases. But I'm playing whack a mole over there
in the block list. Okay, I will read your name
this out if you keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (02:50:13):
All right, well, I think that's going to be it
for all of us here at It could happen here.
That's the it, and it could happen here is this
is Us Doing It podcast.

Speaker 4 (02:50:24):
Goodbye, Put a try to skull on your couch.

Speaker 10 (02:50:27):
We reported the news.

Speaker 5 (02:50:30):
We reported the news.

Speaker 2 (02:50:38):
Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week
from now until the heat death of the universe.

Speaker 1 (02:50:44):
It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,
you can now find sources for it could happen here,
listed directly an episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,

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Behind the Bastards News

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Robert Evans

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