Part One: The Sordid Story of Nature Boy: The Instagram Cult Leader Who Hates Toilets

Robert gets back to basics with guest star Katy Stoll by talking about one of America's newest cult leaders, Natureboy, who used instagram to convince a small army of followers to join his crusade against toilets.

(2 Part Series)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media, welcome back for Behind two four from with
Behind the Bastard. It's a podcast. You know what, it's
about bad people. We tell you all about them. I'm
Robert Evans, and back once again on the show is
Arch guest Ace guest Katie Stall. How are you doing, Katie?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Oh? Wonderful, bad, fine, I don't know, pick a word.
I'm doing it all at once. It's just really hard
to understand my emotions these days. But I'm here and
I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm generally like terrible. Okay, that's that's kind of
the way I feel.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know, I'm bad, but there's a lot of people
that are getting it a lot worse, So I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, there you go. Bad, other people are worse. Everything's good,
umh or bad. I don't know how everything is.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I think so dumb, dumb, dumb, the dumb dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, we used to have we used to have that
as a as a theme song, and then things got
even dumber. You know what. I love it when people say, boy,
you should still be doing your podcast because the years
just get worse. But obviously, ever since Senator Sanders uh
uh came after us, you know, there's there's we simply
can't anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, it's too much liability.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Too much liability after that massive, massive lawsuit.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well that's what happens. I guess when you out someone
is killing JFK before the files are released.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
That's that's right. Obviously the files that just got released,
look them up, completely vindicate us.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
But you know, yeah, but it's unfair.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
It's unfair. You all lost a podcast, and Katie and
I both lost out on purchasing are our yachts, So
that's that's a bummer. I mean, exact replica of the
boat from Jaws.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
But like a miniature version.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, very small, very small, like the Lego size one.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, and dream though someday, Robert, Robert, why did you
not warn me about the images I'm going to have
to show Katie in this podcast?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
I just scrolled and it's.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Warned me.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
So we don't. We don't do stuff like that because
then you wouldn't be surprised. And that's part of me
enjoying the podcast that we do. I had to watch
like fucking so many hours of this of motherfucking online
documentaries about this guy because all of his stuff has
been pulled off the Internet, Katie, we're doing a cult
leader today. We're doing We're doing a new cult leader.

(02:44):
We're like, I mean, this guy's a little older than me.
But the cult is very much like gen Z. Like
it's a very modern, like social media driven cult and
it's kind of one of the most you know, there's
that document about those Twin Flames people that was a
very like modern online cult. But this guy is, like,
this is a Facebook and Instagram cult leader that we're

(03:05):
talking about today. That's how he builds everything.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Okay, the new school cult leader. I like it.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because like back in the day, we've
always had cults, but we used to have a lot
fewer because it was harder, Like two three thousand years ago,
if you wanted to start a cult, you had to
just sit down and talk to a bunch of people
and convince them of shit, and like, you know, maybe
if you got really good, a couple of your followers
would be good at talking and you can get them
to travel around and like talk, but.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
That you delegate that part, yeah, and that's hard, you.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Know, and it's slow, and usually you get killed by
the Romans before all of that works its way out, right,
which is why Jesus was never able to buy the
Green Bay Packers, which if you've read the Bible properly
you'll understand was his ultimate goal. Yeah, as it is mine,
I'd be a good owner for the Packers.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Katie Robert, Are you the second coming of Jesus?

Speaker 3 (04:01):
No?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I'm the second coming of whatever guy was good
at coaching the Packers.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Okay, I couldn't speak to that. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I just like the hats. I don't know much about
the team anyway. As time has gone on, cult leaders
have always been on the bleeding edge of technology, right,
because the key thing in terms of making it possible
for cult leaders to spread more effectively and for there
to be more cults is that there are more ways

(04:30):
with low barriers, for people to reach large numbers of
other human beings. You know, thousands of years ago, you
had to like get an elite following and hope some
of those guys would be really good at talking and
really loyal and would go spread the message, right, And
that's just fucking difficult. Then, you know, if you want
to look at it this way, I think this is

(04:51):
the right way to look at it. Cults are a
lot like pornography, and that they're always on the bleeding
edge of technology because that's the only way they can
stay profitable. Right, Like, porn will always adopt the new
technology that's going to be kind of the future before
like mainstream Hollywood, right, because Hollywood's got they've got margins,

(05:13):
you know that, which is why you see you know,
three hundred or million dollar movies every year that flop
and the industry doesn't quite go under because like, well,
you know, we have the ability to take some gambles here.
Porn can't afford to gamble like that, right, So they
really have to be to be.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
True, you've got to be adaptable in the porn industry absolutely,
you know, Robert, I've heard you share a lot of
hot takes, but this might be my favorite one. Yeah,
just comparison between cults in the porn industry.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, edge of technology, always on the edge of technology, right.
And so you know, colts, the printing press huge for cults, right.
Colts immediately re figured out how to like, oh, we
can now just put out our writing material or reading
material however the fuck we want. Right, and then you
get you know, you get your Mormon churches and stuff,
like that, and part as a result of the fact

(06:01):
that it's a lot easier to print stuff. Now, the
radio makes it a lot easier to spread stuff. And
obviously television, boy howdy, that really super charges things, you know,
And then you start getting all these I mean, among
other things like the prosperity Gospel, these different sort of
like quote unquote Christian churches that are all about if
you give me money to buy a jet, God will

(06:22):
make your wildest dreams come true. You can't do that.
That doesn't work very well through like a magazine, right, Oh.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Definitely not. You're not getting the same kind of return
on investment there.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It's the same thing with like if you have if
you have a creator that you listen to way too much,
that person will probably be have an unfair influence on
you because they're in your ears one hundred hours a week, right,
And if you're attending one of these like big cult
churches and doing it two or three times a week,
and they're constantly talking about how you need to give
the money to go to heaven, you'll probably do it. Right.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I'm easily manipulated.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, yeah, we all are. Actually, is the real answer
behind why do people do the things that they do. Well,
we're kind of stupid and it's easy to fuck with us.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
You're selling me a dream.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
I want that dreamy. Look, we've all bought steaks from
some guy's car at a certain point in our lives,
right among us? Who among us? If you were ever
dumb enough to buy a frozen steak or speakers from
a guy's car, you are dumb enough to have fallen
for something at some point, right, especially, we need better education. Yeah,

(07:30):
and you know you're kind of getting to where we
are now, which is like, yeah, the printing, plays, the radio, TV,
all of that increase the reach different cults and cult
leaders could have. But the Internet and most particularly social media,
that has really given these people unprecedented power. And it's
why we now live in a day and age where
they basically run a lot of stuff, right, if not

(07:51):
everything right. Everything's kind of a cult these days because
cults work among other things, like there's this talk right
now about the tariffs, people being like, oh my god,
finally his his base is going to leave him because
of the tariffs, And I'm like, I don't know if
you guys have read about like the different cults where
a guy would tell everyone the world's ending on this day,

(08:11):
and then it wouldn't, And then, still with a big
chunk of the loyal core of the of the colt
would be like, I guess we'll wait around for the
next one. I don't know what else to do with
my life.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, they're in too deep at this point.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
They still put out.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
That's the way it always, even when you know they've
been starving, they can't afford, they still collapsed.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
They still put out clothes for l Ron Hubbard.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, and they should because he's coming back. We all
know that, Sophie. I've been saying, no, not l R.
I can, and he would. He would have loved TikTok.
That man would have been the best at TikTok. He
would would have had such a good TikTok.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Honestly, we've all missed out. That could have been a
beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Forevery that's really the great like what if of history?
Like yeah, screw these people, Like what if it literally
been killed?

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Now?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
What if l Ron Hubbard had access to TikTok and
a billion people?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I think he would have bought TikTok.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
I think he would have bought TikTok yeah, oh my god,
what a time. What if LRH had had TikTok and
no zembic, nothing would have stopped it. So the Internet
and most particularly social media, has presented these would be
cult leaders of our day with a tool of unprecedented power.

(09:34):
The power if we talked about back in the day
stochastic terrorism, right, which is trying to incite just random,
large groups of people in the hope that some amount
of them actually carry out attacks. Well, Stochastic messaging for
cult leaders means that even if a cult leader of
middling charisma and skill can get a platform that reaches
thousands or hundreds of thousands, or you know, millions or

(09:55):
more people, the vast majority of those people in any
case aren't going to actually do more than watch or
read him. But if a percent of a percentas that's
more than enough to build the kind of following that
can take care of you. Right.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Sure, it's just.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
A numbers game. Now, this week, we're going to tell
the story of a cult leader who got his start
dozens of followers and hundreds of thousands of dollars, all
thanks to Facebook and Instagram. Our subject for this week
is interesting part because he's not very talented, like as
a cult leader like LRH we joke about, but a
Hubbard was really good at some things. And that's part

(10:29):
of what makes his story really fun, is that, like
you are watching a man who knows his business fuck
up the world. Right. This guy is not very good
at anything. I don't think he's particularly bright, and I
don't think he would have succeeded at creating a cult
in any other period. This is a tale of a
cult made possible by social media. And if your ambition

(10:50):
is to start a cult of your own, I think
these episodes would be a pretty good guy on how
to do that, and you should do that. Go start
a cult, right, there's consequences. These episodes do end with
consequences for this guy, but most of the time it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
You know, hopefully we can learn from his mistakes and
how to do it more successfully.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Learn from his mistakes, and remember your goal should be
the presidency, not an isolated compound where you have many,
many sister wives. One of those ends better than the
other historically. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
Still a lot of time from planning sister wife to
be proven of the wisest yeah, that's right, all right.

(11:29):
So our bastard for this week is a guy named
Alisio Bishop. He was born in Harlem, New York, in
nineteen eighty two. Probably, like most cult leaders, he lies
constantly and a hard details about his early life are
thin on the ground. The best and most expansive piece
of traditional journalism about the man is an article Rolling
Stone published earlier this year. Here's how it describes his

(11:52):
earliest years. Bishop was born in Harlem in nineteen eighty
two and said that he was a crack baby. The
story of his upbringing, he lays out in his social
media is his troubled efforts to get in touch with
family members were unsuccessful.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Now this is to fact check it.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, to be like, is any of this true? Right?
Rolling Stone is like, we tried and we couldn't talk
to them. I do like this article and I respect
it for providing like reasonably good context on a guy
who's had basically nothing written about him beyond a few
short news articles. And those are those are all focused on,
like you know, there's there's a couple of specific crimes
that he's involved in, and so they're all very much

(12:28):
like focused on those points in time. The Rolling Stone
article covers those points, but it also it tries to
give a more detailed account of Bishop's life, and as
a result, it's, you know, one of our better sources.
But I will say it still gets some stuff wrong,
you know, and particularly the paragraph that I just read,

(12:50):
I think is an example of some kind of why
we can't use that as our primary source. And so
the best source I found on this guy, weirdly enough,
is a YouTube channel called a Hood Horrors, which has
a little more than four thousand subscribers. This is not
a big channel. It seems to focus primarily on shady
characters from what's called the conscious community or Black consciousness community,

(13:12):
which is a subculture online that we'll discuss a bit later.
And Hudharror has did a seventeen part series on Elijio
or Alligio that is very fairly well edited and written
and includes original interviews as well as extensive documentation of
hundreds of hours of videos posted by his cult that
have now been deleted. So it's the only place to

(13:34):
get at least glimpses of a lot of the first
hand sources on this stuff. And they I think they're
coming at him from a more sympathetic angle than I am,
because he's kind of a shady member of the broader
community they're a part of. But they do a really
good job of, I think, giving you details on his life,
and it's I got to say no shade on Rolling

(13:54):
Stone because their article was useful too, but it's the
best single source on this guy. And they play audio
of Algio talking where he claims that he was born
addicted to heroin as opposed to crack, which is what
the Rolling Stone claimed. I don't know whether he was
born addicted to heroin, her crack or both. It's not impossible.
Both are basically true, and they're both bad.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Let's be real, it sucks to be born addicted to anything.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, because then you don't get all the fun of
starting to do it.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeahragedy here, and then if your tolerance is already high
as a baby.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Where it's going to be so expensive by the time
you're thirty, Jesus.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Sure surely the parents just think about the fact that
his life, he's going to always be trying to chase
a bigger high. It's how he got here.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, that is essentially this story here. So we've got
one picture of his mom and dad. I don't even
have his father's name, but as you can see from
the photo, he was a lot older than her, Like
there is a there's a sizeable age in between these
two people. And he dies of a heart attack right
after Bishop is born. Sure, he looks like he's right

(15:05):
on the customs. He looks like he's right on the edge.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Now, so after he dies, Patricia and her kids live
in government housing, and one of Bishop's older sisters, who's
about seven years old at this time, said this about
her recollections of their childhood. It wasn't all good memories,
but it was a lot of good memories there. So,
you know, he has kind of a weird situation with
his dad. Money's not super you know, common for them,

(15:31):
but they have a pretty loving household, at least acclording
to several of his siblings now. And this is where
part of why I think Aligio is able to identify
with gen Z. Like gen Z, he comes into the
world too late to have any recollections of the good times,
you know, Like there's a period of time in which

(15:51):
his parents are doing well and he misses that entirely.
A few months before his second birthday, CPS takes him
and his siblings away from their mother. She had been
a user of hard drugs for quite a while, and
her use had escalated to the point where friends of
the family had called the government about it. They were like,
she can't be alone with those kids, right, and she
overdoses fatally. Months after this, one of Alicio's later sisters

(16:15):
older sisters, later said she was street and that's why
she died so young. She died at thirty three. You
can't be doing nothing but the street if you died
at thirty three. So that's what the family says about
this kid's mom. It is kind of worth noting that
that's the account that he gives in late videos years later,
or that the account that a member of his family

(16:36):
gives and videos posted years later. He will claim to
have no memory whatsoever of either of his parents, although
there's some allegations that this is basically a defense mechanism
right stop himself from feeling what happened to them. As
much so makes sense. He and his siblings all become
wards of the state after this. He separated from all

(16:56):
of his sisters, but he and his younger brother Leo
get to stay together for a while. They bounce from
foster home to foster home, but they are repeatedly kicked
out of each for fighting. So they get found by
foster at foster homes. He and his younger brother are
taken in and then they'll just beat the shed out
of each other and get kicked out. Which, first off,
if you're a fat foster family taken in two young brothers,

(17:18):
they're gonna beat each other up.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, like you got to take less issue with than
if you're assaulting the foster parents or something.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
But yeah, you're little boys. They're two little boys. They're
going to fight. So this is enough of a problem
though that when Bishop is seven, the state finally separates
him from his brother and he gets sent to a
foster house in Queens that's run by a couple Mister
and Missus Pope and his younger brother Leo isn't there now.
He will later claim that he was sexually abused while

(17:49):
in this foster home. He alleges that he was molested
and forced to engage in sexual behavior with other foster
kids while mister Pope took pictures of them. Statistically, this
is not unheard of. An estimated forty percent of foster
kids endure some sort of abuse during their time in
the system, and at least forty five percent of foster
kids are sexually abused while in the system, a rate
that raises significantly above the background level. And Bishop isn't

(18:13):
the only witness here, but I don't see a whole
lot of game gain for him to have light of
us about this, right which, and the way this usually
comes up is he's being interviewed on his own backstory
for podcasts and you two streams by other creators within
this consciousness subculture, and he'll talk a lot about his
dad mentally and sexually abusing him. He claims that as

(18:35):
a result of the abuse, he began acting out, humping
both boys and girls in school with his clothes on.
At another point, he claims to have let a dog
lick his penis, saying I don't regret it either, which
is you know, I mean, first off, you know got
to tell people that story, man.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah you can.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
You can take that bad boy to the grave.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Which, uh, there's plenty of things that don't need to
be shared. First, Yeah, you're shock or what have you.
But that's a thing he said.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Okay, kids do a lot of weird things. And I
try to be like, yeah, I mean, you know a
lot of kids do weird shit, but like you don't
need to tell anyone that that didn't need.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
The keeness. I don't know if that is something boys do.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I mean, you know, boys do stuff, but not
that I'm gonna well, I'm gonna say, obviously, he's not
the first boy to do that, right, Like that's a
that's a specific joke about like kids putting peanut butter
on their junk. Sure, but it's also it's not common.
You know, of all of all of the weird, fucked
up things I knew other young dudes to do with

(19:41):
their junk, none of them did that because it's it's
a little weird, a little weird.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I you know, a little boy, Okay, there's gonna be
plenty of things in this.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
He's a little boy, he's not he can't be blamed
for it, right, like a small boy just like experimenting
in a way that's weird, Like you should you should
you need to talk to him, be like, hey, that's
not something you can do. That's not something you could
do to a dog, and it's not something you should
be doing. To yourself.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
There's some guidance needed.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
But guidance this is necessary. But yes, if we were to.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Believe the story that he's laid out from his life,
I will acknowledge that this is a very traumatic start.
Not a lot of good guidance for this guidance.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, and you know again, it's this, it's this situation
where a lot he frames this as a result of
and reaction to the abuse he's experiencing from mister Pope, right, Yeah,
And after some period of time he works up the
courage to report mister Pope to a social worker and
to the foster system's credit, which I won't say often here,

(20:42):
he gets sent to live with someone else very quickly.
Right now. The next family he's sent to is a
foster family in the Bronx who had also adopted his
younger brother Leo. And yeah, so first off, the brothers
are back again. That seems good. These people are stable,
they live in the suburbs, they've got a large house,
and they have at least an upper middle class amount

(21:02):
of money. And so he's pretty happy there at first, right,
he describes later it was beautiful nature out there and
things are looking up right, Maybe We've got our little
orphanane story coming together. You know, the suns come up,
it's tomorrow. Except for no, it is not, as Bishop
and Leo would both complain, It's still like this house.

(21:24):
With these people who had access to, you know, a
lot more resources, they still weren't very nice or nurturing
per Algio. They wouldn't let me use a washing machine.
We had to wash clothes by hand. He couldn't let
me have my tight my lights in my room, like
there was no light in my room. It was just
a dresser in darkness. He has stated another videos that
one of his new foster parents told him it was
because I was dark skinned, I was dirty. Ooh yeah, whooo.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay. I don't love any of that.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Don't love any of that now. In the interviews published
by Hood Horrors, Leo has claimed that around this time
he and his brother were both diagnosed with learning disorders,
including add Bishop claims that he was put on Riddlin,
and Leo states that both brothers were moved to special
led because of all this. Where stories diverge is that

(22:13):
Aligia is later going to claim that this is all
the result of a con done by his foster mother
to get additional checks from the government for taking in
two disabled boys. I don't think this is true. Foster
parents do get a stipend that can increase if their
kid has higher cost due to a disability, and these
stipends cap out at a fairly low level. Although as

(22:33):
raids vary from state to state, it's hard for me
to say exactly how it goes. The general consensus online
seems to be that there are no real stipends that
will defray the cost in a super massive way. Yeah,
it's just not going to happen. Speaking of things that
aren't going to happen, me miss out on these products
and services. Oh, we're back, so well, we're talking about

(23:02):
how you know. Our boy here, Alicio Bishop, has been
taken to He's had a rough upbringing, right, His parents
are both dead. He's been moved to one foster home
where he was sexually abused, and then he's been finally
moved to another, which is a step up. It's with
his brother, right. These people live in the suburbs in

(23:25):
a large house. They've got some amount of money, and
he's happy at first, recalling at a later interview it
was beautiful nature out there, which I guess if you
grew up in you know, central New York City, the
suburbs qualify as nature.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Sure, yeah, it's more nature.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
It is a lot more nature. There's some trees out there, right.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
However, as both he and his brother would later complain,
it still wasn't what you'd call a nice or nurturing environment,
per Aligio. They wouldn't let us use a washing machine.
We had to wash clothes by hand. He wouldn't let
me have lights in my room. Like, there was no
light in my room. It was just a dresser and darkness.
Bishop has stated in other videos than one of his
new foster parents told him this was because I was

(24:07):
dark skinned, I was dirty, and I don't know. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, it's to and you know this is
not like Again, He's not the only person who's expressed
things like this about his upbringing. You know, you can
find stories like this a lot, not just connected to
the foster system, but connected to the foster system, which
has a lot of issues with it.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
In interviews published by Hoodhorrors, Leo, his brother, has claimed
that around this time they were both diagnosed with learning disabilities,
including add aligio. Claims that he was put on Riddlin
and Leo states that both brothers were moved to Special ED.
Because of all of this, that all seems pretty cut
and dry. Where stories diverge is that Aligio, who's again

(24:49):
our subject this week the guy becomes a cult leader,
later claims that the add diagnosis and being moved to
Special ED is the result of a cohn by his
foster mother to get added checks from the government for
taking them two disabled boys. From what I have been
able to read, this seems unlikely. There are stipends that
you get for having a kid with a disability as

(25:10):
a foster parent, but from what everything people say online,
these stipends cap out at a fairly low level, and
although rates do vary from state to state, the general
consensus online seems to be that the best these stipends
do is somewhat mitigate the cost of taking in a
child who needs extensive medical care. And it's worth noting
the things that these boys are being claimed of as

(25:32):
having aren't the things that get you the highest dollar.
It's just add right, he does, That's not that's it.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
We're talking not a disability, I you know, maybe a
learning disability.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
It's a learning disability. Sure, yeah, but it's it's not
that it's not a it's that when you're talking about
like the higher amounts of money that you can get
as a stipend, it is for something like your kid
needs constant life saving medical care, a wheelcare on their own,
and even then it's not much more right, it doesn't
cover the cost of their actual health care. So it's
the idea that, like his age, especially since if you

(26:07):
watch enough videos with this guy, I'm not surprised he's
got ADD or you know, ADHD probably now is what
he'd get diagnosed with.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
I'll just say I have AD.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's not uncommon. Yeah, I don't. There's a lot about
his background that I don't feel any need to question
because it happens to a lot of kids. I don't
think he's being accurate about this conspiracy around him being.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Given mind of this early nineties maybe exactly, but you
like an early two thousand development.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Based on my memory of the late nineties, more of
the people my friends and family members were on riddling
than weren't. So again, the idea that this had to
be a conspiracy, I'm just not buying, right, Like it's
just not super rare for kids to have been on riddling.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Back then, right, right, So I anyway, but this is
a story.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
This is he's not going to at least he's going.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
To claim Yeah, well I will, but I'm a wait
to see it.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Our job, his brother doesn't make. His brother's just like
yeah we had add you know.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah what I'm not sure yet because we're going to
see where this is building. All of this is valid, horrifying,
and this stuff happens. And I don't know how much
this cult leader is milking or not milking, but you know,
leaning into something for the story of his personality.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
And that's where you have to go. I try to
when trying to determine how reliable different claims he makes are,
I have to go to the evidence. Right, about forty
percent of kids in foster care will be will experience
some kinds of abuse, right, So the fact that he
claims he was abused in foster care, I don't feel
what he needed to be like, well, I don't know.
Right that said, I found a lot of reporting on

(27:47):
how inadequate the support supplemental income is for foster parents
with disabled kids, and this all does vary from state
to state. But like one article I found via stat
News quotes a foster mother in Missouri who says it
is about it being these payments is about a third
of what is actually spent out of pocket on taking
care of a child.

Speaker 5 (28:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
So again, I just don't see the evidence that this
is a particularly likely scam. No, you don't get rich
taking and disabled foster kids. Really, there are some weird
scamsally here about people get in a bunch of kids
and in fact to make them work for him, which
we will talk about in the second. But yeah, so
and again I'm not saying like this key these kids

(28:28):
didn't both experience abuse, Like, given the number of families
they passed through, it would be almost impossible for them
not to have experienced He did a number of abuse.
I give the amount of abuse.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right exactly, and just the fact even outside of that
being passed from home to home, the chaos of this
is incredibly traumatic.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
So yes, I try to be I try to have
like an open mind about this book because I've read
a lot of articles from foster parents who seem to
be people of really good will talking about how inadequate
the system is. And I've made over the course the
least ten years of my life, a lot of friends
who were in foster care from an early age, none
of whom like the system or feel good about it,
all of whom feel very, very bad about how the

(29:07):
system works. This is not I'm not gonna I don't
I'm not going to pretend this is a comprehensive look
at it, but like it's really opened my eyes up
to like, I'm not going to say this is a
good thing that's being unfairly slandered. So I'm going to
try to I'm going to try to look at sort
of what seems likely based on the evidence, you know,
visa via his claims, and he does make some other

(29:28):
allegations about this foster family, which will be he and
his brother's last, that are more credible. He claims his
foster mom used him for free labor, making him work
for hours in her garden and around the house as
a quote unquote slave. Leo's account comports somewhat with his brothers,
although he doesn't compare it to slavery. He just says
they were strict and they had to do a lot
of chores, right, Yeah, But it's not hard to find

(29:49):
cases of foster parents using foster kids as unpaid labor.
The most shocking recent example of this is a case
that just concluded in West Virginia. A couple, Jean K.
White Feather and her husband, Donald Lance, were convicted of
forcing their five adopted children, all of whom were black,
to work as slaves on their farm. They had started
adopting kids from a shelter for vulnerable youths in Minnesota,

(30:11):
and then moved to Washington State and finally West Virginia
in twenty twenty three. They were ultimately reported to the
Canawao County Sheriff after a neighbor spotted Lance locking a
girl and her brother in the shed in a shed
for NBC News, the Sheriff's office said the two children
in the shed had no running water or bathroom and
had been deprived of adequate hygienic care and food. The
children said they slept on the concrete floor and had

(30:32):
been locked inside for twelve hours before they were found.
Another girl was found inside the home. An indictment alleged
that the couple targeted the children for forced labor because
of their race. They were charged with human trafficking, child neglect,
forced labor and other crimes, and in a happy ish ending,
they were convicted and sentenced to two hundred and fifteen
and one hundred and sixty years in prison, respectively. So

(30:52):
that's a happy is she then that's a happy ish ending? Like, yeah,
that seems like about two hundred years with the prison.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, okay, fair also oof.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
So again, I don't know if Aligio is telling the
truth about this family, But it's not like this doesn't happen, right,
being forced to work an unreasonable amount because you're a
fought particularly a black foster kid. You can find more
stories than the one I quot you right now. It's
also worth noting that this last couple that they live
with owns a church, right, and so these brothers are

(31:26):
forced to go to Bible study and attend church regularly.
And there's this mix of things where Alisio clearly learns
how to be a preacher a lot about how people
talk about religion, and it's going to make him very
effective at talking about religion at conversion, at the kind
of shit a cult leader needs to do.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Right, he gets speaking in general talking about religion, but
also speaking to a group of people, being charismatic, being
drawing them in.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
And when you see him talk, if you like me,
have just spent way too much time looking at different
evangelical like you know, fringe set and stuff. It's like, oh, yeah, no,
I get where this comes from, right, you know? Again, folks,
watch the movie mar Jo if you want a little
more of an education on that. Alisio claims that he
was told several times he was a demon and that
he became scared of his reflection in the mirror. You

(32:14):
hear this a lot from kids who are stuff like this,
a lot from kids who are reasoned evangelical. So I
feel no need to like question that claim. Yeah. So
he has also alleged that these last foster parents physically,
although not sexually, abused him. His younger brother feels a
little differently, And I think this may just be them
both interpreting the same thing differently, because his brother Leo,

(32:38):
has acknowledged that they were both spanked regularly when they misbehaved,
but he doesn't describe this as abnormal or extreme, and
it may not have been. Right. There's a lot like
it's always bad to hit kids, you know. Also it's
pretty normal to spank kids, right, Yeah, And so the
fact that Alisio calls this abuse and Leo doesn't. I

(32:58):
don't see it necessarily as discrepancy and what happened I
know either.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Uh, that's up for interpretation. Also, Leo's little brother, Leo,
he was already in this house.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Prior, right, he went in a little earlier and.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Also younger, so maybe his experience was different. Or again,
maybe he's leaning into the story for the narrative of
his life either.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Way, yeah, or maybe it's the kind of thing where, yeah,
they were both spanked and that's not good. You shouldn't
hit kids for any reason. But also like Eligio's kind
of upselling it to have because having the super right
and like he doesn't need to his backgrounds very sad.
It's the narrative.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
But I also understand that there's different room for different
interpretations than the older child. I don't know which more
of a brunt too.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Absolutely my like I cans like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't
qualify what I did as like particularly again, it was
not excessive for the time, but I definitely got spanked
more than my brother because during the time when I
am older than my brother and during the time when
I was a kid, it was more normal, right, And
my parents changed as society changed on that matter. Right,
Like I got people.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know, more because I was an angel.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Right, you were perfect. Of course we were always talking
about this kid.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
No, it's because it changed the baby. They didn't by
the time I was around, they didn't feel as good
about it.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, there's there's a number of
things that are possible here, but I don't see any
reason for him to be not. And we do have to,
like I'm not trying, like you do have to litigate
a cult leader's backstory even when it is this sad,
because like they lie about a lot of stuff. They're
cod leads, you know. Like, so I think we I'm
hoping that we're doing like a fair enough job of
being like this is probably true. This one. There's less

(34:37):
evidence for, you know. Alicio says that the abuse he
endured is what inspired him to begin committing petty crimes
and running away. He would periodically be gone for days
at a time, during which you would do stuff like
just steel cars for the hell of it, commit petty robberies,
burglarized houses and cars. I have relatives who had severe
ADHD it did stuff like this so again, I like

(34:59):
this does it all seemed pretty consistent. He was arrested
several times. Quote, I got locked up for everything. I
was so young, I was committing so many crimes. And again,
this is the kind of thing if you're white, if
your parents have money, this doesn't last on your record.
He's not, you know, all those parents do have some money.
After this cycle repeated itself a few times during his adolescence,

(35:21):
he was finally convicted and sentenced to five years of
juvenile detention, which is where he spends the remainder of
his time as a child. Right, the rest of the
last five years of his childhood, I mean, and his
first year of adulthood. Really, he spins incarcerated. At age sixteen,
he is sent from a juvenile detention area to East
Jersey State Prison. So they're like, well, at sixteen, you're

(35:42):
ready for the adult prison, and this week can absolutely
verify happens, right, And this is deeply abusive by the system,
by the state. No, kids should not go to prison.
I don't really think ever, like sixteen year olds aren't adults.
You shouldn't treat him that way, even when they do
horrible stuff, you know, even when they're committing murders. There's
still not adults, you know, but this is the way

(36:06):
the government is.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, yeah, we have done several yes.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah. The juvenile the juvenile offender system is just bastards
all the way down. It's like a fucking hedgerow of evil.
You couldn't drive a fucking tank through it. So this
is where he's going to spend the rest of his childhood.
He describes this as a desperate and miserable time during
which he repeatedly tried to kill himself. He was transferred

(36:35):
to the prison psych ward for some time as a result.
I have no trouble at like believing this. This is
an extraordinarily common story. Suicide is, at large, just among
all young people in the United States, the third leading
cause of death, and being a youth in custody substantially
increases your odds of attempting suicide or succeeding at it.

(36:55):
Incarcerated children complete suicide between two and four times as
often as youth and the general population. It is worth
noting the evidence suggests that the kind of kids who
wind up in custody are also likelier to have struggled
with suicidal ideation before incarceration. More than one third of
juvenile detainees report thinking of suicide in the six months
prior to detention, and that number is almost fifty percent

(37:18):
for female detainees.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Wow, none of that's shocking.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, No, it's worth it's always worth bringing up, right,
people should always have this, be reminded of this. But yeah,
it's not at all. If you are casually aware of
how any of this works, you're like, yup.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
He's ultimately released in two thousand and one, after his
nineteenth birthday. He goes back so again. By the time
he is on an adult in the free world quote
unquote for the first time, he spent about a quarter
of his life behind bars. So not great, slightly more
than a quarter if I'm remembering my tipping math, which
is the only math I know how to do. Aligio

(37:58):
goes back to live with his family for this foster
family for a while, but for what should be obvious reasons,
that doesn't go well. Right, He's ultimately kicked out. At
least that's his story. Maybe it was more of a
there's some I've heard some versions of it that like
he chose to leave. I don't know. I don't think
it matters all that much. Thankfully, he has made contact

(38:19):
with several of his siblings at this point, from which
he's been estranged since he was very young, right and stuff. Yeah,
his sisters, and they seem to they're doing their best
for their little brothers, right, that's the That's the feeling
I get because he couch serfs with several of them
for different periods of time. It never lasts. He is
very hard to live with, and he is I just

(38:41):
given based on what happens later, I have no trouble
believing a pretty abusive person to live with. They really
are trying. It sounds like, based on both his account
and the accounts that you get from other members of
the family, that like they do attempt. He count serves
with his sisters for a while, he couch serves with
an old friend, and kind of between the two of them,
he's able to gradually, over several months, make his way

(39:03):
from New York City down to South Philly. This is
where he gets his first adult job as a security guard,
and he seems to feel good enough about this that
he decides the army is a good place for me, which, okay,
a lot of people make a decision like this, and
you know, outside of the whole problem of what the
army does, you know, imperialism, all that good stuff. I

(39:26):
do know a lot of people who will tell you
quite out both. I don't recommend other people joined the army.
And I would have killed myself if I hadn't joined
the army or the Marine Corps or whatever, I would
have wound up dead. Right, that's a very just a
for them.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's an of something to go do. But yeah, you
are something.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
To go do. And I know people who like because
their parents, because they they had no no one who
told them how to be an adult fight like finally,
like being in the military and having older people as
mentors who are like here is how you exist in
the world as a person was something they desperately needed. Right,
So sometimes it does work out out to people. For people,

(40:02):
this is yeah, So he's this is posed. It's not
a great time to join the army, one of the
worst times. I don't know that it would have begne
well for him. But he's not allowed to stay. And
I'm going to put from that right up in Rolling
Stone quote. He has said he completed basic training but
was discharged when the Army learned of his psychiatric treatment.

(40:25):
And this is probably again, if he had tried a
few years later, they probably would have kept him because
during like the surge, right they were they were letting
a lot of dudes with sketchy histories, like, yeah, we
just need bodies. You want to take a samurai sword
and a share, fuck it go, Like that's a little
thing that happened. That's an actual guy that said, you know,

(40:48):
if you are innately, if the army won't take you
in like two thousand and two, you probably don't have
a lot of jobs you can get hired for, right, Like,
that's just a reality. And he's going to spend the
next several years of his life on the verge of homelessness,
desperately pivoting from one gig and location to the next.
He signs up with the job Corp, but he leaves

(41:08):
very quickly. He looks back up with his little brother Leo,
who's an adult now, and they moved to New York
City with one of his older sisters for a while
until she kicks him out or they have a fight
and they leave. They wind up in Augusta, Georgia, next
where they crash with another sister, and again just a
shatteringly common story for people who come from this kind

(41:28):
of associate, who are orphaned, who grow up super poor,
who wind up in the foster system. Stuff like this
is not right. Now, There's a lot of people who
have experiences like this, and most of them don't become
abusive cult leaders like Alicio. Right, important context, he gets
his next full time job at this point, working six
days a week at a slaughterhouse, probably not good for

(41:49):
his mental health. One of the worst jobs you can do,
I say this is someone who slaughters animals, Like slaughter
housework is just a fucking nightmare. Right. He starts drinking
and smoking weed constantly as a coping mechanism for how
traumatizing doing this job is. Yeah, yeah, it's about I mean,

(42:10):
my mom used to because she had a donut shop
that you know, bankrupted the family. But like when that's
some of my earliest memories. And she would deliver to
the Tyson Chicken plant near Iabell, Oklahoma, and that you
could smell that place from a half hour away, right,
like I can't eat like and she always just left
after delivering it, looking haunted. It's just a bleak thing

(42:32):
to have to do.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Absolutely, you won't catch me anywhere near a slaughterhouse.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
No, avoid factory farmed meat people if you can, which
you know often you can, although everything's getting more expensive.
I don't know. Do whatever you can do. I'm not young.
It's miserable work. So he starts taking drugs a lot more.
You get the feeling. I think this might be a
guy who is schizotypal. I don't know that he's been

(42:59):
dieg gnosed with that. It's just because of some of
the things that happened later. Either way, the fact that
he starts smoking weed is not going to be good
for him. Neither is the drinking. He increasingly has issues
controlling his anger. During one argument with his older sister,
he punches her in the face and she kicks him
but not his little brother out of the house. So again,
this is a guy. I don't know if this is

(43:21):
the first physical violence that he uses on someone close
to him, but this is the first kind of documented case.
It's going to be a pattern in his life. And
so Bishop's going to spend the next several weeks living
on the street. He's outright homeless now until a friend
of his and it's kind of unclear from the interviews
I've heard. A lot of this comes from interviews pieced
together by that Hood Horror's YouTube channel, which again you

(43:42):
should check out. This guy doesn't have a lot of followers,
but is very good at what he's doing. I really
recommend it's like a seventeen part series. So by far
I've done my best. That Rolling Stone article is good.
The hoodh Horrors piece is by far the most detailed
history of this guy. If you find yourself really interested
in everything that's happened with this cult. But it is

(44:03):
a long It's like nine or ten hours of content, right. Yeah.
So again, he gets invited by this friend of his
to come crash in Atlanta. He manages to get work
as a barber. And one of the things that you're
getting from this, in addition to the bad stuff, is
that he must be pretty charming to a lot of people,
because he does keep getting invites with people to stay
with him and crash with him. A lot of folks,

(44:25):
including people who aren't his blood relatives, try to help him,
right Yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
That's what I was thinking. All these people that let
him couch sir for crash, there's got to be a reason.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, there's got to be a reason.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
This isn't. This isn't a guy who is like a
purely toxic force to the people in his life. Otherwise
he wouldn't be getting these opportunities, right. So he gets
some work as a barber for the first time during
this period, and he's able to like make a living
at it. He has some skill with this, but barbering
doesn't pay a lot, or at least the way he's
doing it, he's not making good money, obviously, I know

(44:58):
some people do quite fine with it. So he starts
basically flirt you being a sugar baby for women who
have more money than him, which is basically every woman.
He has almost no money at this point. He says, quote,
I used my body, I used my looks in order
to get money and access to cars from various women.
He also starts selling weed to supplement his lifestyle. And

(45:19):
as you'll see, you know, some people are just kind
of naturally jacked, Like they have to work out some
but like working out a fairly minimal amount, eating an
okay diet, they're just shredded. He's one of those people, right,
Being jacked comes fairly easily to him. You know, he's
never doing well enough to afford his own place at

(45:41):
this point. And this is me reading in between the
lines a little bit. I think it might be more
that he is unwilling to spend any of his money
on rent, so he's always living with someone, usually a
girlfriend who he inevitably cheats on constantly. And this is
how he winds up for the third time homeless, and
because he gets kicked out of the house for cheating.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
The desperation of this situation convinces him to take an
offer that he had been given by someone else to
start stripping at a gay strip club. He describes himself
as going gay for pay and you know, I, Sophie
will show you some photos here. There's documented evidence of
him at this point as a dancer, as a stripper
and a sex worker. He claims, quote, I was the

(46:21):
number one dancer that was hosting the shows in every
arena in Atlanta. I can't verify this, but like, yeah, so,
how did you describe this guy looking from those what
Sophie's showing Like pretty hot? He's pretty hot, Like he's
he's he's yoked. You know, he's a good look.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Ye works out, oiled up, he knows.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
How to dress like he looks pretty good.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I could see when he It's one of those things.
I don't know if he was the number one male
stripper in Atlanta, but like, yeah, I could see him
doing gay mail stripper. I could be like, I can
see him doing pretty well. Yeah. I don't have trouble
believing that he's this is something he's able to like
do quite well at His stripper name is Tyson for
Tyson beckfiy for.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
I forgot one image?

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Oh what's that? I was it the naked one where
he's holding the water bottle over his cock.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Okay, why'd you forget that one?

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Because I mean that's a good one. It was on
a separate page.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, well you'll pull that up. There we go, There
we go.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, it's like a lot of people's tender profile right there.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, if you're lucky, Jesus, if you're lucky, you'll see
the tea pendant he's wearing. That's because his stripper name
is Tyson for Tyson Beckford who is a Jamaican American
actor and model who hosted two seasons of Make Me
a Supermodel and was one of Ralph Lauren's big male
models for years. I don't know much about the model industry,
but what I read casually says he's one of the
rare male models who is like as big as some

(47:52):
of the biggest female models, right in terms of like
his incomference name, he's very big, he's a big deal,
suggests insists that he was and is entirely straight, and
that this was a purely mercenary arrangement for him. That said,
he doesn't actually seem to be like homophobic or transphobic.
So there's that, I guess, good for him.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yeah, completely rotten inside. That's cool.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, he's just not I don't think he has any
personal care about that whatsoever. He's certainly not a super
judgmental guy when it comes to that stuff. Speaking of
people who won't judge you, our sponsors will never judge you.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
They would never they would never dream of it.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
They're the only people who love you and the only
people you can trust. I think we can all agree
on that, certainly, certainly for me, no argument from anyone.
Why would you argue. We're back and we're talking about
this fucking guy. So guy, things are starting to go

(48:57):
well for him, he's making good money. He also continues
serially dating women, and he gets one of these ladies
pregnant with a child, Elisha Alisio Junior, and he seems
to have no further contact with this kid beyond naming him.
Soon after this, he gets another lady pregnant, Maisha. Maisha
has two kids prior to meeting him. They get together

(49:19):
and start living in the same home, and he names
their son Osiris. And he does spend some time with
this kid, trying to parent him. And he'd been doing
pretty well, okay, at least financially before, but now he
is effectively taking care of both, you know, this first
kid that he seems I think he sends some money to.
I'm sure he's not totally up on his child support.

(49:40):
He's supporting this second kid, and he's helping Maysha support
or other kids. And he finds himself strapped, right, the
stripper money is not alone enough for this, so he
starts working as a like an escort, right, a gay escort,
and like you know, he's now having sex for pay, right,
and he also stars in at least one pornographic film.

(50:02):
I suspect there are more. Knowing how that industry works,
but we have documentation of at least one. This is
not easy for him. He begins drinking more heavily, and
when he gets drunk he's often physically violent. This comes
to a head in twenty eleven, and I want to
play a segment of Maisha and Aleigio both discussing the incident,
which is part of that Hood Horrors documentary. There were

(50:23):
other videos where this was related, but they've been pulled
from the internet, so this documentary is the only place
I can find it. Again. I really do recommend watching
The Rise and Fall of Nature Boy Alisio Bishop, which
is like seventeen parts at this moment. But yeah, here's
a brief clip of them talking about this incident.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Look out the window he stabbed and my tie is
to my car, so I go to the door. He
come outside. I'm like, nah, like you've been drinking.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
I know you.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
I don't do you when alcohol like go ahead. He
pulls me outside and I was holding onto the door.
So when I hold it to the door, I closed it.
He grad dragged me down the stays. He got on
top of me, was beaten my face and I don't
know how the police pulled up in the yard. They
sat him on top of me and they pulled him

(51:08):
off of me when I was a cop came out
and over a cop pull three outdo.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Murder?

Speaker 4 (51:20):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, so not great? Yeah, not great. He gets arrested, Yeah,
for aggravated battery. Sounds like fair charges based on you know,
what they say and what he has.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
He was trying to fucking.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Kill her, Yeah, And the police report notes that Mayesha
had severe swelling over her left eye the size of
a fist, a laceration behind her left ear marks on
her upper body, and her pajama pants were torn. He
faced twenty years in prison, but by the time it
took about a year for the case to come around
to trial, by which point Maisha and him had reconciled.

(51:57):
She writes the letter a judge in his favor. Bishop
takes a plea deal that includes probation and a thousand
dollars fine but no prison time. And again it's this
thing where like they make up. He apologizes. He says
that he had promised the universe that if it got
him offer these charges quote, I would never hit another woman.
I should note that in this is He says this

(52:18):
in a live stream years later, and in that live stream,
he immediately adds, I lied because he becomes very convinced
that men abusing women is an important thing philosophically. But
that's in the future, you know. At this point Mayisha
takes him back. They're still living together. He does make
some changes after this, although I don't know how you'd

(52:41):
categorize these, he claims, and again these are his allegations
that are not verified. He claims he befriended a wealthy
Biblical scholar named doctor Mike Brown. Doctor Mike Brown is
a real person with a Wikipedia and everything. He is
a Messianic Judaism, which is people who believe it's like

(53:05):
they think that they're a kind of Jews that accept
Jesus as the Messiah. It's a very problematic thing. I'm
not going to get into it. He's a major Christian Zionist.
He does have a real PhD in Bible stuff. He's
got a pretty messy history in terms of shit. He said.

(53:25):
He's held anti pride rallies. He has claimed homosexual homosexuality
is caused by childhood trauma. He has in the past
supported conversion therapy and Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. He's also
claimed not to be anti gay, but I don't know
if this is an example of him having softened or
just lying. I don't know, you know it's He's definitely

(53:48):
has said some really fucked up shit. He has been
accused of sexually inappropriate behavior by a female employee, and
he denies these allegations. Alegio has apparently claimed that the
two a clandestine relationship, and that for years doctor Brown
paid him three thousand dollars a month as an allowance
and also fronted him the money he needed to start

(54:08):
his own barbershop. He starts his own barber shop around
this time he has money from somewhere. I have no
I'm saying this because this is a thing you can
get sued over, and I absolutely do not want to
be misreporting this. There is no outside verification or confirmation
of any kind that his allegations against doctor Brown are true,

(54:29):
nor have I come across similar allegations against Brown. Again,
the allegations against him are that he is abusive to
a female colleague, right, not that he's hiring male prostitutes
or doing a sugar But those are not allegations I
hear anywhere else from him. So I am telling you
this because these are the things that Aligio claims, not

(54:50):
because there's outside verification of this. I don't know the truth.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Robert, You guys, he's doing his.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Best, really trying to state what the actual known facts
are here. What we do know is that he gets
enough money to start a barber shop. It is not
a small shop. He hires a team of barbers. Photos
make it look like more than a dozen shares in
the shop, and it does fairly well. It seems to
be a pretty successful business. He starts to make good

(55:20):
money during this and he's you know, this business is
supporting a decent number of people. He lets his little
brother live in the back. He won't let him be
a barber, but he'll let him sweep up after. I
don't know why Leo seems pissed about it. So things
are going pretty well, but this is a grind. You know,
running a small business is not easy. I've never heard

(55:42):
anything that makes it sound like barbershop is an easy
kind of business to run. And he grows exhausted with
the grind and starts getting obsessed with the idea of
living closer to nature and dropping out of society who
amongst us, right, common common thing to desire? Yes, yeah,
not a weird story. Unfortunately, he starts to explore this

(56:04):
by meeting a bunch of like hippies on the internet
and watching YouTube videos from different creators in the Black
Consciousness community, which we'll talk about in more detail, but
it essentially mixes. This is a subculture. The Black consciousness
or conscious community online is a subculture just sort of
a collection of YouTubers. There's some podcasters, some rappers who

(56:29):
have this mix of like very standard hippie back to
the land style ideology with also an education on like
the history of racism in the United States that is
unfortunately mixed with stuff that gets scammier like quote unquote
natural health and astrology. And from what I can tell,
it's a broad subculture. So depending on who you get

(56:51):
obsessed with as a creator in this, you might wind
up learning about both like you know, organic farming and
making human manure and stuff. All of it's your wonderful things.
And alongside like the destruction of Black Wall Street and
Tulsa and the move bombing right, very real conspiracy theories.
But there's also a sizable chunk of this community well,
you will learn some very not real conspiracy theories, right, Yeah,

(57:15):
there's a very slope.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
And there's different communities. It's like, yeah, I want to
take that, but.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Not that you ye, And it's difficult when like so
much of it is about like this is a this
is a largely black community, talking about like the history
of racism against and like institutionalized bigotry against black people
in the United States. There's so many real conspiracies, and
it's also once you hear about those easy for a

(57:40):
lot of people to get pulled into the stuff that's
not so real. He gets really interested in black Israelite stuff,
which is basically black people are the lost thirteenth tribe
of Israel or whatever. He gets into a lot of
anti vaccine stuff, which is adjacent to a lot of
you know, to at least elements of this subculture. Alisio's

(58:00):
loved ones at the time mostly describe him obsessively watching
videos about conspiracy theories and natural health, and particularly when
Mayisha talks about this, she always says he's watching conspiracy
theory videos. He buys an RV never a good sign,
never a good if your friend like drops out of
social interactions, spends months watching YouTube videos and then buys

(58:22):
an RV. You need to intervene. He's about to do
something bad.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
These are red flags.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
These are red flags that said, in this particular case,
this is more a sign of where things are going.
The RV itself doesn't in too badly. He and Maisha
live on the road for a month and try to
just like let other people run the barber shop, but
they're bad at it, and so he's forced to come
back from Florida to stop it from going out of business.
Once he's backed, to try to keep himself interested in

(58:50):
the barbershop, he sets up a stage there, which initially
he's like, so local acts can play right, people can
do stand up or you know, musicians can do stuff.
He gives out liquor and beer and stuff, which is
not super uncommon for barbershops. So he's trying to like
make it into a community space. But that becomes him
primarily using that stage to give speeches that are like

(59:11):
rants about his different pet theories. And at this point
he's embraced a couple of specific theories. One of them,
and this is an older pre existing theory, is the
idea that higher amounts of melanin in the skin can
correlate directly to higher IQ. Right, the more melanin you have,
the smarter you are. And kind of what goes with
that is exposing yourself to sun by spending as much

(59:31):
time nearly naked outdoors as possible makes you smarter.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
He also starts to believe that bathing is bad for you.
You don't need to bathe if you eat only fruit
or other foods that don't make you smell. This is
a thing Steve Jobs believed. No one else agrees with this,
and also as.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
A reminder, Steve Job washed his feet in the toilet.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yes, yes, now that is something Elisia would not do
because Alisio believes toilets are evil. He comes to you
insist and believe very strongly that pooping and peeing indoors
is one of the greatest evils you can perpetuate because
they make they are. By doing that, you are robbing
nature right of your critical you know of nutrients and stuff.

(01:00:15):
I want to play a clip of him talking that
was republished by Hood Horrors. This is from all of
his stuff has been taken off the internet. After the
things that we'll talk about in Part two happened, So
it's hard to find a lot of this. These different
kind of documentaries online about him are some of the
only sources remaining, which is why I'm going back to
this documentary. I do want to again continue to you know,

(01:00:35):
shout out the Rise and Fall of Nature boy Alisio
bishop on hoodhars. It is a really good piece of work.
But here is him talking years later explaining his theories
about poop. So this gives you an idea. This is
filmed later, but it gives you an idea of like
the kind of shit he's saying in his rants. At
this barber shop.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
They showed me, like where to use the backthrone, which
we all use.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
The vacuum in the backyard.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
This is not shit poop. It's very sacred. When you
eat right, you eat the right thing. You eat from
the earth. It is no longer toxic waste. It is organic.
It is soiled. You get the fruit, you eat the fruit,
it eats the soil. This is how you give back.

(01:01:20):
The government is taking this and putting into the toilet
and stealing it and disconnecting youth from the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Universe and stealing it, stealing, stealing your poop by making
you think you need a toilet to disconnect you from
the universe, so you don't realize, you know, the evil
schemes they're perpetuating.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
And see words and phrasing in there of like sacred, sacred,
the government, and it's just leading into the conspiracy of it,
the and the religious.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
And here's the thing, Like, I actually have a lot
of friends and have spent a lot of time myself
using stuff like composting toilets. Right, I lived on and
I have spent a lot of time on you know,
in properties where people are like very close to a
closed loop. I have known and know people who do
the very close to zero impact environmentally, like they produce
all their own food, they turn all of their own waste.

(01:02:16):
It is possible. It's a lot of work. It is
much more complicated. And I want to and I say
that because I want to make it very clear. He
is not saying you should make your poop into human manure.
He is not an advocate for utilizing any of this
waste in any way. He just thinks you should only
shit in the backyard. Yeah, that is very important for
you to understand.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
It's a big difference. And I don't know that much
about it. But there are some hygiene issues here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
There's so we would all die if society best.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
I know that there are better places to be in
nature than others. Yes, that it can't It can have
negative consequences.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
If our whole society committed to like a functional extense
of human hure program, sure that would be better than
what we do. But if everyone just pooped in the yard,
we would all get sick and die. Because it's bad
to just poop in the yard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Yeah, in general, probably you're bad.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
For the bad for the yard. The yard's good to
just shit everywhere for the environment either, yes, Also if it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Not toxic when you eat all the I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
That none of this is accurate. After one of these
rants where he's just talking about how the government's stealing
your poop, a former regular at the barbershop asks him, Hey, man,
you used to just give us drinks when we came
to get a haircut. What happened to the drinks?

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
So this is changing?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
He is not happy at the barber shop. The barbershop's
not super happy with him, and in short order he
works out a deal to basically give away sell his
ownership of the barber shop and exchange for an ongoing
interest in the business to somebody. He's already committed himself
to begin copying the Conscious community figureheads he'd grown obsessed with,
and he'd even bought up a new name for himself,

(01:04:01):
and from this point forward he no longer goes by
Alicio Bishop. He now uses a new name, nature Boy,
and we will be talking about that and his growth
into a significant figure within the Conscious community in Part two.
How you feeling so far, Katie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
I'm feeling great. I'm excited to hear what happens to
Nature Boy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
I'll tell you one thing. A lot of people pooping
in backyards. There we go. Beatles song, Yeah, that's right.
Wait is that a Beatles song?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
There's a lot of Beatles song. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
I just think it is Mother Nature's son, Mother Nature
Son different, a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
I just think of a former side character on Behind
the Bass or Rick Flair.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
That's right, Oh yeah, Rick Flair the Nature Boy. Also,
I think pissed on a chair or something at one
point in that story, if I'm remembering right. So you know,
similar guys, maybe part of that maybe someone his chair.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Well, he was part of the he was one of
the ones that was in the adoption scandal where he
was just kidnapped.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Oh yeah, he was stolen as a baby. Yes, yes,
he was definitely stolen as a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Player comes back is what I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Yes, all right, everybody, Katie you want to plug your pluggables.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Here real quick? Oh sure? Oh well, you can find
me over at some More News with Cody Johnston. We
now have three episodes a week. Well, we've got two
podcasts and then the main shell you do show and
you can check us out there. We've got a Patreon,

(01:05:42):
we got all the things. That's it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:45):
Go do that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Yep? All right, well everybody go poop in your backyard.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Don't do that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
Behind the Bastards is a production a cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes
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Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Subscribe to our

Speaker 6 (01:06:15):
Channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards