February 11, 2026 • 32 mins
James is joined by Sam Hamilton to discuss how people in Social Circle, GA are organizing against an 8,000 person detention facility that ICE is planning to build in a warehouse in their community.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Al Zon Media. Hi, friends, and welcome to the show.
It's me James today and I'm very lucky to be
joined by Sam Hamilton, who is the senior litigation staff
attorney at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi Sam, Hi James, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. And we are gathered here
today to talk about the new proposals that DHS has
to detain people in literal warehouses. Right, if people aren't familiar,
maybe you could die out by explaining what those proposals
(00:42):
are and how they specifically relate to the areas where
you're organizing in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
So, around December of twenty twenty five, a journalist leaked
a list of about twenty different cities across the country
where where ICE was intending to open new detention facilities
in warehouses specifically. And this list contained the names of
(01:10):
the cities and the expected or projected occupancy of each
of these facilities. And so I live here in Atlanta, Georgia,
and there were two cities on that list with warehouses contemplated.
One is located in the city of Flowery Branch, where
(01:35):
the warehouse there is intended to detain up to one thousand,
five hundred people, and the other is in the city
of Social Circle, Georgia, where ICE intends to use a
warehouse that is over one million square feet to detain
about eighty five hundred people that fast.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Like, I think that this would dwarf the capacity of
any like I'm trying to think of, there are maybe
prisons sort of bigger than that.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I don't know, but like in immigration terms, I don't
think there is anything.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean, you know, so for the last four
years or so, I've worked I've worked on various different
shutdown ICE campaigns here in Georgia, and for the last
four years I've been working with the campaign to shut
down the Folkston Ice Processing Center, which is an ice
facility in South Georgia pretty close to Florida, but it's
(02:29):
about a five hour drive from Atlanta, and that ended.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Up expanding last summer.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But the number of beds at that facility was projected
to be around three thousand, and at the time that
was going to be the largest ice attention facility in
the country. So to jump from three thousand to eighty
five hundred is yeah, it's massive, obviously.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean people wanted like it's not fascism and left.
It comes from the Fascio Rain area of Italy. Right,
Otherwise it's like sparkling authoritarianism or whatever. But like unless
you're looking for like a gate with our Beckmark Fry
on it or whatever, like like these are concentration camps.
Like that, that is what this is. It was really
(03:16):
interesting in twenty twenty three we had out the outdoor
attention under the Biden administration, and like we didn't really
have much coverage in the US media when we were
participating in mutual aid there, but we'd had a lot
from non US media, like folks from Japan and Singapore
and Italy, and they just come and be like, oh, yeah,
it's a concentration camp. And then they'd write the story
(03:36):
and be like they're these a concentration camps. And I
think I would never have got that pasted an editor
in LA or New York. To them, it seems so
self evident. Now we're just doing it on an even
bigger scale. I guess it's it's terrible. It's this shit.
So I know you've been organizing in social circles specifically,
right or part of an organizing group, I should say,
(03:58):
that's been opposing this detention center. So I think it'd
be really instructive to people because either are all of
these are going to be all over the country, and
this won't be the only expansion of immigration detention we
see in the next few years, I imagine, given the
massive budget and the priority to the administration, can you
explain a little bit about like how that campaign got
started and then like the nuts and bolts of how
(04:19):
this is being opposed.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, So before I get into that, I think providing
some context on who the Social Circle community is it
will be, you know, would be instructive. So it's a
pretty small it's a very small city. It's got a
population of about five thousand people, overwhelmingly Republican, overwhelmingly white,
(04:43):
and pretty wealthy, Okay, And it's about an hour drive
outside of Atlanta. And in December of twenty twenty five,
a news article was published in The Washington Post announcing,
you know, the list of the twenty cities where these
warehouses would be would be popping up. And it was
(05:05):
that article that told the residents of Social Circle and
the elected officials of Social Circle for the first time
that this ice mega prison was coming to their community.
There was no notice to the city by ICE or
anyone in the federal government at all, certainly no opportunity
(05:27):
to respond, no opportunity for public input.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So they felt really blindsided.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, and I'm not from this community, and you know,
I've I've met many of these people only for the
first time, you know, within the last couple of months.
But I think it would not be so far fetched
to say that some of these people feel, you know,
especially the ones who identify as Republicans or as you know, conservatives,
I think they feel really betrayed by you know, by
(05:55):
their government, by their party.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And so, you know, a lot of these people, I
mean I've just described the demographic. I think many of
them have never been involved in organizing of any kind before.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Some of them have, I think, but.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think due to you know, their life circumstances, just
might not have found themselves in a place where they've
needed to organize for anything. So a bunch of these
residents got together and have been holding you know, in
person kind of town hall community meetings, and they held
(06:31):
one in January where they were about you know, I
think forty to fifty people in the room, and they
wanted to get together and you know, just have a
public discourse about what could be done. And I was
invited to this meeting because of my history of involvement
(06:52):
with shutdown campaigns here in Georgia. I got started with
shutdown campaigns in twenty when a nurse, a whistleblower who
worked at an immigration detention center here in Georgia called
the Irwin County Detention Center, alerted the public that there
was a doctor who was contracting with ICE who had been,
(07:16):
you know, providing medical services to women detained in this facility. Well,
he had actually been performing non consensual and medically unnecessary
medical and gynecological procedures on women in ICE detention. This, yeah,
and when these women spoke out about it to their
family members, to journalists, to their lawyers, to members of
(07:38):
Congress or staffers for members of Congress, they were retaliated
against by being swiftly deported and I'm talking put on
planes within hours of speaking to a congressional staffer. And
at the time, I was working at the University of
Georgia School of Laws Fort Amendment Clinic, where we were
providing you know, free legal service is to people across
(08:01):
the state including you know, helping people with getting access
to public records and suing the police and and you
know and federal agents. Yeah, when they were retaliated against.
And so we represented those women. And it was through
my work at Irwin and you know, connecting with the
organizers there, that I got involved with shut down campaigns,
(08:24):
or rather the shutdown Irwin campaign here in Georgia, and
then from there later got involved with the shutdown folks
in campaigns. So I had been asked to speak to
this group of people who I think were new to
the immigrants right struggle, to talk about, you know, what
it's like to try to prevent a detention center from
popping up in their community.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And they can say, like, it's not a community that
might traditionally be demographically the same as the people who
we associate with, like migrant advocacy, migrant activism. I guess
when a group like that comes into a moment like this,
there are some areas of like activism. I guess civil
(09:03):
society stuff where like white suburban folks have some experience,
right planning is one of them. Right, Like the recent
bike planes only go north south in San Diego is
because they think that those of us who can't afford
to live by the sea don't deserve to cycle safely.
Like there are many other examples of this. But what
(09:23):
there were there like thoughts when they when they first met.
I'm really interested to know that. Like, they're obviously upset
and they feel abandoned and betrayed, but like, how did
they want to organize to prevent this?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, a lot of them were upset about the decrease
in their property value.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That was what was really bricating.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, that was redicalizing, mom, same with the bike lanes.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Actually, oh yeah, I bet yeah. And you know, but
in addition to the property value stuff, it's also you know,
the strain that this would impose on their small community.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I mean, you know, a number of the people who live.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
There might be of you know, well to do means,
but you know, their city police department employs a total
of fourteen officers and they have two on duty at
any given time. They have a fire department of you know,
comparably you know, small size, and they have you know,
water and sewer infrastructure that was built to accommodate about
(10:26):
as many people as live there. Now, you know, between
four thousand and five thousand people. And it's that impact
that is also you know, really maddening and activating and
agitating to people. Those arguments are not new to us
who have organized in South Georgia and also very red areas,
(10:49):
a lot more rural and a lot less wealthy, you know,
will try to We've canvas door to door in the
city of Folkston to try to ask people how do
they feel about this mega prison opening up in their community,
and a lot of people, you know, we're we're against it.
Despite the fact government officials might try to bill it
(11:11):
as you know, an economic boon, you know, an employment opportunity,
a lot of people said like, hey, I mean, I
don't necessarily want a prison in my backyard, but if
it's bringing jobs, then you know, that's what this community needs.
That's something that I think makes Social Circle distinct from
the previous shutdown campaigns I've worked on in Irwin County
(11:33):
and in Folkston is that this isn't really an area
that is starved for employment or starved for you know,
economic support, Like these people are doing okay. And you know,
another thing that makes it distinct is before all of
this warehouse business, the vast majority of facilities in this
(11:56):
country are formed through intergovernmental service agreements.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know, we're iggs's for sure, it is the acronym.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
But there are agreements between the federal government and the county,
the local government where the local government says, yes, you
can use our land or our facilities, and in exchange
you pay us, I mean in the case of folks,
and it's a comparably measly amount.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's only two hundred thousand dollars per.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Year, Jesus, not much.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, even though the federal government is giving i mean
fifty million dollars a year to insert your favorite private
prison corporation here, you know, whether.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's Courcivic or geogroup. Yeah, I mean your favorite. There
are only two.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Really, yeah, not much of a joice.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so typically like we see this sort of like
co opting and manipulation of the local community and the
local government by the federal government, you know, coercing them
economically to you know, to take on these detention centers
or else. But here, I mean social like I said,
Social Circle is doing fine. They're not starved for economic investment.
(12:59):
And I didn't you know, consult them at all. It
really just like you know, in the dead of night
just bought this warehouse from a private company and push
this deal through. So those are some aspects that I
think might throw you know, some of us who might
have been involved in these similar fights before, like for
a loop a little bit, because yeah, there's this assumption
(13:23):
I think by some of the local officials that the
supremacy Clause governs here and the federal government can do
whatever it wants. So there's no point in us trying
to use our local zoning ordinances or what have you
to try to put a stop to this, because there's
nothing that we can do, right, is at least what
you know, some people might be saying.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, let's take a break for advertisements. I can't think
of anything mean to say, I know, buy some shit.
This have come from a don't buy anything you don't need. Okay,
(14:04):
we are back. So you were talking about this assumption
that the supremacy cluse would mean that the federal government
could build a mega prison in a warehouse in your
town without asking you if it could do that.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
First, can you explain like how.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
People are able to use, like you said, like various
local tools to oppose this.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Like you said, it's a huge burden.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
When I first read this story, I remember thinking about, like,
just like the water and sewage demands of housing eight
thousand people would be crippling for the infrastructure in a
lot of places, So like, how are people opposing this?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Well, it's been really inspiring for me to see these
local leaders who, again many of whom have you know,
never been involved in activism we're organizing before. They've been
very consistent in holding demonstrations on a weekly basis at
the site of this facility, and have garnered the attention
(15:07):
of different media who have come and interviewed them. So
that's been one way that they've been trying to, you know,
get their message out there. I was just talking about,
you know, the residents who are concerned from you know,
sort of fiscal perspective and are concerned about, you know,
their own property values and things like that. But there
are a fair number of people who are concerned about
(15:28):
you know, the core human rights abuses.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And you know, sures.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Some of the lines might be well, this isn't the
right place, you know, our city is not the right
place for a detention center, suggesting you know, implying that
there are some places that are suitable for a detention center.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
But there are a fair.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Number of people in this community who who are opposed
to detention centers in general. I mean they see that
they see the violence that ICE is inflicting.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
In broad daylight on.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Public streets, and I think they're they're horrified, and they
don't want to be complicit in in something like that,
you know, coming to their community. And I do think
that along the way, I'm seeing more of a shift
in the consciousness or at least an openness to understanding
(16:24):
the different influences that bring us to the same table.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It has been very cool, and we can agree that.
You know, we're not going to have one hundred per
unity of ideas, but we can have a unity of action,
and you know, we can save these debates on you know,
I mean whether someone is illegal or not, but you know,
we can continue to have them along the way, as
(16:54):
we are also identifying the very concrete ways that we
can work together. And I'm thinking of one, for example,
I work pretty closely with some staffers for different members
of Congress. I mean in terms of like uplifting you know,
human rights and civil rights abuses that we see in
detention centers because as part of my job, I go
(17:16):
inside detention centers, immigration detention centers in Georgia pretty frequently,
also federal prisons, and we'll meet with people and learn
about the conditions that they're facing and will you know,
fight for them to get released, and also share what
I learned from them with you know, different members of Congress,
(17:37):
and most of our connections are with people who are
aligned with the Democratic Party, you know, I mean to
be to be frank, you know, I've never initiated correspondents
with a Republican but I think I kind of just
assumed that they wouldn't want to, that I wouldn't get
anywhere with them, or.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That they wouldn't you know, that they wouldn't talk to me.
But what's been effective and working.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
With this coalition of residents is some of these people,
I mean, yeah, like they you know, they've been card
carrying Republicans for a long time and feel that they,
you know, can wield influence over you know, certain Republican
elected officials and yeah, yeah, and one of them, you know,
I mean, well, I don't know how many of them,
(18:22):
but a number of these local residents have gotten Republican
you know, Mike Collins to come out against this ice facility.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, that's especially right now in the Republican Party, and
like that that could be very difficult for them to do.
And I sort of on it's not hugely sympathetic to
Republican politicians, and I would still like to see them
get better.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Like that's we want people to get better, that's the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And like I think for these people whose politics may
not be the same as ours, sharing the space, sharing
the movement, sharing this struggle.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Like, I hope it makes people better.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I hope being exposed to people who are not of
the same background as you, be like class rized, race wise,
politics wise, whatever, like makes people realize that things are
not quite how they're presented to them on the television
or in the media they consume totally. So I'm sure
that's yeah, Like I hope that it's positive. What can
like a local government do or even like elected officials do,
(19:25):
given that the elect officials on federal level do. Given that,
I mean, I suggest appears to be operating like without
a great deal of oversight right now.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I mean with each of these warehouses, there are
different circumstances around each of them. I've been really inspired,
honestly by the folks in Maryland who are dealing with
a warehouse, maybe multiple warehouses, I'm not sure. Yeah, where
you know, at both the local and the state level,
(19:58):
they have really pushed for legislation that would effectively, yeah,
I mean, prevent these warehouses from existing at all. It
is a different set of facts than what we're working
with here in Georgia because there's more involvement by private actors,
and so the government, you know, the local government can
can regulate them more. But Maryland is certainly not the
(20:21):
only place where where those fights are happening. And so
I would really encourage folks to, yeah, to learn from Maryland.
And I get you know, I'm talking about you know, legislation.
I mean, I will be the first to tell you
as a lawyer that I don't think legal tools will
(20:41):
liberate us.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You know, the law will not make us free.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Sure, Yeah, And I do think it's the people power,
it's the coming together, it's the mass collective action that is,
you know, that's what's going.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And also there are multile well, you know, there are
multiple tools and multiplement instruments that we can they can wield.
And so right now, I mean with respect to the
Social Circle warehouse, ICE is saying that they intend to
detain people in their starting in April, jeez, in less.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Than two months. Yeah, and so right now, the.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Strategy truly is to use just like every tool at
our disposal, identifying, Yeah, like what legislation can be filed,
what litigation you know, what lawsuits can be filed, what
you know, demonstrations, what kind of you know, canvassing, door knocking?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, you name it?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Like, how can how can people come together? How can
we try to identify which companies would be supplying the
labor to turn this warehouse into something, you know, where
people will be detained. I mean not that, not that
I think ICE gives a damn about making any type
(21:59):
of facilit habitable for humans.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But there's gonna be there's gonna be some work that.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Needs to be done in order to you know, turn
this you know, would be Amazon warehouse into a place
for people. And is there work that you know, local organizers,
because they're organizers.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
We're all organ you know, we're all organizers.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Is there work that local organizers can do to try
to unite with laborers with workers who you know might
be working on this facility to try to like prevent
them or like city workers, Like can they prevent city
workers from like actually hooking up this warehouse to the
city utilities?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, presumably Yeah, that will be a building contractor, right,
Like they will want to build thousands of cells in
this giant Yeah. The coll of that stuff, and especially
with it happening so quickly, like you know, anything delays
that will cause it to at least slow it down.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I think another angle that we haven't talked about yet
is the environmental angle, like with social circle, you know,
this is I mean a town of five thousand, it's
gonna trip. It's gonna nearly triple the number of people
in this place, and I mean and also triple the
amount of waste and sewage that's going to be coming
(23:36):
out of this place.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I mean, so that's one thing.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Another thing for people to look at is, you know,
what would the environmental impact of these warehouses be on
local waterways for example?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that's what you know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Temporarily put a stop on the detention facility in the
Everglades in Florida was a legal challenge in federal court
under NIPA, the National Environmental Protection Act, because the federal
government had failed to conduct the proper environmental impact assessments
and the only thing that they actually really had to
do was you know, something very procedural and you know,
(24:14):
tick a box. And ultimately the facility ended up moving forward.
But it was a tool to buy time to figure
out what other types of organizing can we do.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, and it's still like even if it's only time, right,
Like harm isn't being done in that time, and it's
still a good thing.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, it's like a form of harm reduction.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It reminds me a lot of the struggles here against
the UA larger border wall that we've seen since twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen when Trump got elected. Like I'm thinking about
how there have been ecological challenges to it, there have
been social challenges to it.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
The City of San Diego is currently trying to sue
the FED to trest us for part of its wall construction,
which like I'm not a big fan of our city
govern meant, but like I'm glad they did that.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And all these different.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Tools have at least like at least in the last
Trump administration I remember in the late summer of twenty
twenty being out with some Kuma Yai folks who were
in ceremony because the wall construction was destroying Kuma ancestors
right who are buried there, and then the spaces where
(25:23):
they are buried, And they ran out the clock on
the Trump administration. Right by using their rights as indigenous
people to be in ceremony, the refusal of the workers
to literally drive a dump truck through the middle of
their ceremonial practices, they were able to run the clock.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Out on the Trump administration. Unfortunately, now we have another one.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
But like all those different things had to work together
to mean that, like in that little part of the border,
somebody's great great grandparents remains weren't dynamited out of the earth,
and that's still a good thing.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
However we got there, that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
It makes me happy to hear that.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Like even folks who might have otherwise been politically aligned
with the project were appalled by this because the idea
of literally warehousing humans, like it's so fucking bleak, Like
there's these big warehouses where we fill them with shit
that we don't need. And now definitely them with people
that apparently we don't want, Like it's it's one of
the more horrific things that I know. It just it's
(26:26):
so bleak to me.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, Like the veil has just been
totally lifted, Like we know that they don't view immigrants
as human. Yeah, but now they're like not even pretending anymore,
just truly treating people like chattel.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah again yeah again, right in the same places in
this instance. Like, I guess I'm glad that even people
who aren't not politically on the same team maybe like
are opposed to this because it's, uh, yeah, it is repugnant.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I guess what if people are hearing about this for
the first time, right, and will include that link to
the article so people can look up where these locations are,
if any of them. What advice would you have for
people if you're listening to this, you click on that link,
you find this one half an hour from your house
or whatever, Like, what advice do you have for those people?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I think if you're already an organizer, regardless of whether
you've been in the immigrants' rights fight or not, now
is the time when it really is like all hands
on deck. So don't be afraid to get involved. But also,
you know, like we were talking about before we started,
(27:42):
is I think guarantee that there is some immigrants rights
movement in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Your locale or somewhere close by.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And I think it's just so important to you know,
approach this work not with the assumption that you are starting,
you know, launching this new campaign, spearheading this you know, new,
previously untapped, you know, area of work, because I guarantee
you that you know, there are people who have have
(28:14):
worked on this before. And so I think connect with
you know, connect both with people who have been doing
this work for a long time, and also try to
connect with people who you might not otherwise have thought
to connect with. And I think it's important to call
out the nimbiism, the not in my backyardism of of how,
(28:38):
you know, some people are coming at this issue because
they're you know, they're worried about their property value.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But it's also something that we can capitalize on.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Right It's energy and oftentimes it's people with capital and
connections that.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know that you might not otherwise have had access
to either.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So I think, you know, the connecting you know, in
the community organizing needs to go in multiple directions, but
I do think it's important to move.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, it's important to move.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Fast, Yeah seriously, Like like that is a very constrained timeline,
like everybody has to be, but that means it's also
important to move respectfully, right, because like, if we just
blow each other shit up, because yet people assume that
migrant communities have somehow not been advocating for themselves in
each other for centuries, then we're not going to have
(29:31):
time to organize because we're going to be dealing with
that shit. And I've seen that so much just personally, right,
Like having been involved for some time in migrant advocacy
and seeing folks like pop in and tell us how
to do everything. It's tiresome, and I understand that you'll
want to help, but yeah, if this is something that
(29:52):
like you're organizing around, super easy to find those organizations
to be like, how can I help?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, And it's also such a good like this fight
in particular is such a good vehicle for fighting.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
For abolition overall.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
As someone who's been saying abolish ice for years, it
is amazing to see how much traction that phrase has gotten,
especially over the last six months and We can't just
be fighting against you know, preventing.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
New ICE facilities.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
We need to be fighting for shutting down all ICE
facilities and for abolishing ICE as an institution. We've been
around before ICE, and we will be around after ICE.
As you know, as an agency, ICE has only been
around since two thousand and three. Sure there was a predecessor,
there was the i INS, but I mean it didn't
(30:48):
operate in nearly the type of way that ICE does
now as this you know, law enforcement agency. And even
before Trump, like ICE was still a really you know,
horrible like a horrible yeah, yeah, agency, And so yeah,
I think it's important to continue to you know, point
these things out while also you know, welcoming people into
(31:09):
the fight and.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, and pushing them, pushing them further.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I think that's really it's really important. Like I
think we have to rebut the assumption that this is
an aberration and we can fix it and go back
to normal, because normal was bad and you just couldn't
see it because it wasn't on your screen, right, Like
children died in outdoor attention under Biden. I saw people
(31:36):
suffer im mentally in outdoor attention Underbiden. Like we don't
want to go back to that either. And I think
it's really important that when we build these coalitions we
build them with that in mind, that like, we're organizing
very quickly, but also we're in this for the long horn,
until everybody's free. Is there anything that you'd like to
leave people with resources or a bit of advice, any
(31:59):
like closing words to share with him?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Abolish ize? It's all I got perfect. It Could Happen
Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You
can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed
directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Al Zon Media. Hi, friends, and welcome to the show.
It's me James today and I'm very lucky to be
joined by Sam Hamilton, who is the senior litigation staff
attorney at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi Sam, Hi James, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. And we are gathered here
today to talk about the new proposals that DHS has
to detain people in literal warehouses. Right, if people aren't familiar,
maybe you could die out by explaining what those proposals
(00:42):
are and how they specifically relate to the areas where
you're organizing in Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
So, around December of twenty twenty five, a journalist leaked
a list of about twenty different cities across the country
where where ICE was intending to open new detention facilities
in warehouses specifically. And this list contained the names of
(01:10):
the cities and the expected or projected occupancy of each
of these facilities. And so I live here in Atlanta, Georgia,
and there were two cities on that list with warehouses contemplated.
One is located in the city of Flowery Branch, where
(01:35):
the warehouse there is intended to detain up to one thousand,
five hundred people, and the other is in the city
of Social Circle, Georgia, where ICE intends to use a
warehouse that is over one million square feet to detain
about eighty five hundred people that fast.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Like, I think that this would dwarf the capacity of
any like I'm trying to think of, there are maybe
prisons sort of bigger than that.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I don't know, but like in immigration terms, I don't
think there is anything.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean, you know, so for the last four
years or so, I've worked I've worked on various different
shutdown ICE campaigns here in Georgia, and for the last
four years I've been working with the campaign to shut
down the Folkston Ice Processing Center, which is an ice
facility in South Georgia pretty close to Florida, but it's
(02:29):
about a five hour drive from Atlanta, and that ended.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Up expanding last summer.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But the number of beds at that facility was projected
to be around three thousand, and at the time that
was going to be the largest ice attention facility in
the country. So to jump from three thousand to eighty
five hundred is yeah, it's massive, obviously.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean people wanted like it's not fascism and left.
It comes from the Fascio Rain area of Italy. Right,
Otherwise it's like sparkling authoritarianism or whatever. But like unless
you're looking for like a gate with our Beckmark Fry
on it or whatever, like like these are concentration camps.
Like that, that is what this is. It was really
(03:16):
interesting in twenty twenty three we had out the outdoor
attention under the Biden administration, and like we didn't really
have much coverage in the US media when we were
participating in mutual aid there, but we'd had a lot
from non US media, like folks from Japan and Singapore
and Italy, and they just come and be like, oh, yeah,
it's a concentration camp. And then they'd write the story
(03:36):
and be like they're these a concentration camps. And I
think I would never have got that pasted an editor
in LA or New York. To them, it seems so
self evident. Now we're just doing it on an even
bigger scale. I guess it's it's terrible. It's this shit.
So I know you've been organizing in social circles specifically,
right or part of an organizing group, I should say,
(03:58):
that's been opposing this detention center. So I think it'd
be really instructive to people because either are all of
these are going to be all over the country, and
this won't be the only expansion of immigration detention we
see in the next few years, I imagine, given the
massive budget and the priority to the administration, can you
explain a little bit about like how that campaign got
started and then like the nuts and bolts of how
(04:19):
this is being opposed.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, So before I get into that, I think providing
some context on who the Social Circle community is it
will be, you know, would be instructive. So it's a
pretty small it's a very small city. It's got a
population of about five thousand people, overwhelmingly Republican, overwhelmingly white,
(04:43):
and pretty wealthy, Okay, And it's about an hour drive
outside of Atlanta. And in December of twenty twenty five,
a news article was published in The Washington Post announcing,
you know, the list of the twenty cities where these
warehouses would be would be popping up. And it was
(05:05):
that article that told the residents of Social Circle and
the elected officials of Social Circle for the first time
that this ice mega prison was coming to their community.
There was no notice to the city by ICE or
anyone in the federal government at all, certainly no opportunity
(05:27):
to respond, no opportunity for public input.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So they felt really blindsided.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, and I'm not from this community, and you know,
I've I've met many of these people only for the
first time, you know, within the last couple of months.
But I think it would not be so far fetched
to say that some of these people feel, you know,
especially the ones who identify as Republicans or as you know, conservatives,
I think they feel really betrayed by you know, by
(05:55):
their government, by their party.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And so, you know, a lot of these people, I
mean I've just described the demographic. I think many of
them have never been involved in organizing of any kind before.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Some of them have, I think, but.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think due to you know, their life circumstances, just
might not have found themselves in a place where they've
needed to organize for anything. So a bunch of these
residents got together and have been holding you know, in
person kind of town hall community meetings, and they held
(06:31):
one in January where they were about you know, I
think forty to fifty people in the room, and they
wanted to get together and you know, just have a
public discourse about what could be done. And I was
invited to this meeting because of my history of involvement
(06:52):
with shutdown campaigns here in Georgia. I got started with
shutdown campaigns in twenty when a nurse, a whistleblower who
worked at an immigration detention center here in Georgia called
the Irwin County Detention Center, alerted the public that there
was a doctor who was contracting with ICE who had been,
(07:16):
you know, providing medical services to women detained in this facility. Well,
he had actually been performing non consensual and medically unnecessary
medical and gynecological procedures on women in ICE detention. This, yeah,
and when these women spoke out about it to their
family members, to journalists, to their lawyers, to members of
(07:38):
Congress or staffers for members of Congress, they were retaliated
against by being swiftly deported and I'm talking put on
planes within hours of speaking to a congressional staffer. And
at the time, I was working at the University of
Georgia School of Laws Fort Amendment Clinic, where we were
providing you know, free legal service is to people across
(08:01):
the state including you know, helping people with getting access
to public records and suing the police and and you
know and federal agents. Yeah, when they were retaliated against.
And so we represented those women. And it was through
my work at Irwin and you know, connecting with the
organizers there, that I got involved with shut down campaigns,
(08:24):
or rather the shutdown Irwin campaign here in Georgia, and
then from there later got involved with the shutdown folks
in campaigns. So I had been asked to speak to
this group of people who I think were new to
the immigrants right struggle, to talk about, you know, what
it's like to try to prevent a detention center from
popping up in their community.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And they can say, like, it's not a community that
might traditionally be demographically the same as the people who
we associate with, like migrant advocacy, migrant activism. I guess
when a group like that comes into a moment like this,
there are some areas of like activism. I guess civil
(09:03):
society stuff where like white suburban folks have some experience,
right planning is one of them. Right, Like the recent
bike planes only go north south in San Diego is
because they think that those of us who can't afford
to live by the sea don't deserve to cycle safely.
Like there are many other examples of this. But what
(09:23):
there were there like thoughts when they when they first met.
I'm really interested to know that. Like, they're obviously upset
and they feel abandoned and betrayed, but like, how did
they want to organize to prevent this?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, a lot of them were upset about the decrease
in their property value.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That was what was really bricating.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, that was redicalizing, mom, same with the bike lanes.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Actually, oh yeah, I bet yeah. And you know, but
in addition to the property value stuff, it's also you know,
the strain that this would impose on their small community.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I mean, you know, a number of the people who live.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
There might be of you know, well to do means,
but you know, their city police department employs a total
of fourteen officers and they have two on duty at
any given time. They have a fire department of you know,
comparably you know, small size, and they have you know,
water and sewer infrastructure that was built to accommodate about
(10:26):
as many people as live there. Now, you know, between
four thousand and five thousand people. And it's that impact
that is also you know, really maddening and activating and
agitating to people. Those arguments are not new to us
who have organized in South Georgia and also very red areas,
(10:49):
a lot more rural and a lot less wealthy, you know,
will try to We've canvas door to door in the
city of Folkston to try to ask people how do
they feel about this mega prison opening up in their community,
and a lot of people, you know, we're we're against it.
Despite the fact government officials might try to bill it
(11:11):
as you know, an economic boon, you know, an employment opportunity,
a lot of people said like, hey, I mean, I
don't necessarily want a prison in my backyard, but if
it's bringing jobs, then you know, that's what this community needs.
That's something that I think makes Social Circle distinct from
the previous shutdown campaigns I've worked on in Irwin County
(11:33):
and in Folkston is that this isn't really an area
that is starved for employment or starved for you know,
economic support, Like these people are doing okay. And you know,
another thing that makes it distinct is before all of
this warehouse business, the vast majority of facilities in this
(11:56):
country are formed through intergovernmental service agreements.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know, we're iggs's for sure, it is the acronym.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
But there are agreements between the federal government and the county,
the local government where the local government says, yes, you
can use our land or our facilities, and in exchange
you pay us, I mean in the case of folks,
and it's a comparably measly amount.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's only two hundred thousand dollars per.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Year, Jesus, not much.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, even though the federal government is giving i mean
fifty million dollars a year to insert your favorite private
prison corporation here, you know, whether.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's Courcivic or geogroup. Yeah, I mean your favorite. There
are only two.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Really, yeah, not much of a joice.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so typically like we see this sort of like
co opting and manipulation of the local community and the
local government by the federal government, you know, coercing them
economically to you know, to take on these detention centers
or else. But here, I mean social like I said,
Social Circle is doing fine. They're not starved for economic investment.
(12:59):
And I didn't you know, consult them at all. It
really just like you know, in the dead of night
just bought this warehouse from a private company and push
this deal through. So those are some aspects that I
think might throw you know, some of us who might
have been involved in these similar fights before, like for
a loop a little bit, because yeah, there's this assumption
(13:23):
I think by some of the local officials that the
supremacy Clause governs here and the federal government can do
whatever it wants. So there's no point in us trying
to use our local zoning ordinances or what have you
to try to put a stop to this, because there's
nothing that we can do, right, is at least what
you know, some people might be saying.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, let's take a break for advertisements. I can't think
of anything mean to say, I know, buy some shit.
This have come from a don't buy anything you don't need. Okay,
(14:04):
we are back. So you were talking about this assumption
that the supremacy cluse would mean that the federal government
could build a mega prison in a warehouse in your
town without asking you if it could do that.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
First, can you explain like how.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
People are able to use, like you said, like various
local tools to oppose this.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Like you said, it's a huge burden.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
When I first read this story, I remember thinking about, like,
just like the water and sewage demands of housing eight
thousand people would be crippling for the infrastructure in a
lot of places, So like, how are people opposing this?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Well, it's been really inspiring for me to see these
local leaders who, again many of whom have you know,
never been involved in activism we're organizing before. They've been
very consistent in holding demonstrations on a weekly basis at
the site of this facility, and have garnered the attention
(15:07):
of different media who have come and interviewed them. So
that's been one way that they've been trying to, you know,
get their message out there. I was just talking about,
you know, the residents who are concerned from you know,
sort of fiscal perspective and are concerned about, you know,
their own property values and things like that. But there
are a fair number of people who are concerned about
(15:28):
you know, the core human rights abuses.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And you know, sures.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Some of the lines might be well, this isn't the
right place, you know, our city is not the right
place for a detention center, suggesting you know, implying that
there are some places that are suitable for a detention center.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
But there are a fair.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Number of people in this community who who are opposed
to detention centers in general. I mean they see that
they see the violence that ICE is inflicting.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
In broad daylight on.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Public streets, and I think they're they're horrified, and they
don't want to be complicit in in something like that,
you know, coming to their community. And I do think
that along the way, I'm seeing more of a shift
in the consciousness or at least an openness to understanding
(16:24):
the different influences that bring us to the same table.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It has been very cool, and we can agree that.
You know, we're not going to have one hundred per
unity of ideas, but we can have a unity of action,
and you know, we can save these debates on you know,
I mean whether someone is illegal or not, but you know,
we can continue to have them along the way, as
(16:54):
we are also identifying the very concrete ways that we
can work together. And I'm thinking of one, for example,
I work pretty closely with some staffers for different members
of Congress. I mean in terms of like uplifting you know,
human rights and civil rights abuses that we see in
detention centers because as part of my job, I go
(17:16):
inside detention centers, immigration detention centers in Georgia pretty frequently,
also federal prisons, and we'll meet with people and learn
about the conditions that they're facing and will you know,
fight for them to get released, and also share what
I learned from them with you know, different members of Congress,
(17:37):
and most of our connections are with people who are
aligned with the Democratic Party, you know, I mean to
be to be frank, you know, I've never initiated correspondents
with a Republican but I think I kind of just
assumed that they wouldn't want to, that I wouldn't get
anywhere with them, or.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That they wouldn't you know, that they wouldn't talk to me.
But what's been effective and working.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
With this coalition of residents is some of these people,
I mean, yeah, like they you know, they've been card
carrying Republicans for a long time and feel that they,
you know, can wield influence over you know, certain Republican
elected officials and yeah, yeah, and one of them, you know,
I mean, well, I don't know how many of them,
(18:22):
but a number of these local residents have gotten Republican
you know, Mike Collins to come out against this ice facility.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, that's especially right now in the Republican Party, and
like that that could be very difficult for them to do.
And I sort of on it's not hugely sympathetic to
Republican politicians, and I would still like to see them
get better.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Like that's we want people to get better, that's the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And like I think for these people whose politics may
not be the same as ours, sharing the space, sharing
the movement, sharing this struggle.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Like, I hope it makes people better.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I hope being exposed to people who are not of
the same background as you, be like class rized, race wise,
politics wise, whatever, like makes people realize that things are
not quite how they're presented to them on the television
or in the media they consume totally. So I'm sure
that's yeah, Like I hope that it's positive. What can
like a local government do or even like elected officials do,
(19:25):
given that the elect officials on federal level do. Given that,
I mean, I suggest appears to be operating like without
a great deal of oversight right now.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I mean with each of these warehouses, there are
different circumstances around each of them. I've been really inspired,
honestly by the folks in Maryland who are dealing with
a warehouse, maybe multiple warehouses, I'm not sure. Yeah, where
you know, at both the local and the state level,
(19:58):
they have really pushed for legislation that would effectively, yeah,
I mean, prevent these warehouses from existing at all. It
is a different set of facts than what we're working
with here in Georgia because there's more involvement by private actors,
and so the government, you know, the local government can
can regulate them more. But Maryland is certainly not the
(20:21):
only place where where those fights are happening. And so
I would really encourage folks to, yeah, to learn from Maryland.
And I get you know, I'm talking about you know, legislation.
I mean, I will be the first to tell you
as a lawyer that I don't think legal tools will
(20:41):
liberate us.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You know, the law will not make us free.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Sure, Yeah, And I do think it's the people power,
it's the coming together, it's the mass collective action that is,
you know, that's what's going.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
To do it.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And also there are multile well, you know, there are
multiple tools and multiplement instruments that we can they can wield.
And so right now, I mean with respect to the
Social Circle warehouse, ICE is saying that they intend to
detain people in their starting in April, jeez, in less.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Than two months. Yeah, and so right now, the.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Strategy truly is to use just like every tool at
our disposal, identifying, Yeah, like what legislation can be filed,
what litigation you know, what lawsuits can be filed, what
you know, demonstrations, what kind of you know, canvassing, door knocking?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, you name it?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Like, how can how can people come together? How can
we try to identify which companies would be supplying the
labor to turn this warehouse into something, you know, where
people will be detained. I mean not that, not that
I think ICE gives a damn about making any type
(21:59):
of facilit habitable for humans.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
But there's gonna be there's gonna be some work that.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Needs to be done in order to you know, turn
this you know, would be Amazon warehouse into a place
for people. And is there work that you know, local organizers,
because they're organizers.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
We're all organ you know, we're all organizers.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Is there work that local organizers can do to try
to unite with laborers with workers who you know might
be working on this facility to try to like prevent
them or like city workers, Like can they prevent city
workers from like actually hooking up this warehouse to the
city utilities?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, presumably Yeah, that will be a building contractor, right,
Like they will want to build thousands of cells in
this giant Yeah. The coll of that stuff, and especially
with it happening so quickly, like you know, anything delays
that will cause it to at least slow it down.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I think another angle that we haven't talked about yet
is the environmental angle, like with social circle, you know,
this is I mean a town of five thousand, it's
gonna trip. It's gonna nearly triple the number of people
in this place, and I mean and also triple the
amount of waste and sewage that's going to be coming
(23:36):
out of this place.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I mean, so that's one thing.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Another thing for people to look at is, you know,
what would the environmental impact of these warehouses be on
local waterways for example?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that's what you know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Temporarily put a stop on the detention facility in the
Everglades in Florida was a legal challenge in federal court
under NIPA, the National Environmental Protection Act, because the federal
government had failed to conduct the proper environmental impact assessments
and the only thing that they actually really had to
do was you know, something very procedural and you know,
(24:14):
tick a box. And ultimately the facility ended up moving forward.
But it was a tool to buy time to figure
out what other types of organizing can we do.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, and it's still like even if it's only time, right,
Like harm isn't being done in that time, and it's
still a good thing.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, it's like a form of harm reduction.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It reminds me a lot of the struggles here against
the UA larger border wall that we've seen since twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen when Trump got elected. Like I'm thinking about
how there have been ecological challenges to it, there have
been social challenges to it.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
The City of San Diego is currently trying to sue
the FED to trest us for part of its wall construction,
which like I'm not a big fan of our city
govern meant, but like I'm glad they did that.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And all these different.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Tools have at least like at least in the last
Trump administration I remember in the late summer of twenty
twenty being out with some Kuma Yai folks who were
in ceremony because the wall construction was destroying Kuma ancestors
right who are buried there, and then the spaces where
(25:23):
they are buried, And they ran out the clock on
the Trump administration. Right by using their rights as indigenous
people to be in ceremony, the refusal of the workers
to literally drive a dump truck through the middle of
their ceremonial practices, they were able to run the clock.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Out on the Trump administration. Unfortunately, now we have another one.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
But like all those different things had to work together
to mean that, like in that little part of the border,
somebody's great great grandparents remains weren't dynamited out of the earth,
and that's still a good thing.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
However we got there, that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
It makes me happy to hear that.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Like even folks who might have otherwise been politically aligned
with the project were appalled by this because the idea
of literally warehousing humans, like it's so fucking bleak, Like
there's these big warehouses where we fill them with shit
that we don't need. And now definitely them with people
that apparently we don't want, Like it's it's one of
the more horrific things that I know. It just it's
(26:26):
so bleak to me.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, Like the veil has just been
totally lifted, Like we know that they don't view immigrants
as human. Yeah, but now they're like not even pretending anymore,
just truly treating people like chattel.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah again yeah again, right in the same places in
this instance. Like, I guess I'm glad that even people
who aren't not politically on the same team maybe like
are opposed to this because it's, uh, yeah, it is repugnant.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I guess what if people are hearing about this for
the first time, right, and will include that link to
the article so people can look up where these locations are,
if any of them. What advice would you have for
people if you're listening to this, you click on that link,
you find this one half an hour from your house
or whatever, Like, what advice do you have for those people?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I think if you're already an organizer, regardless of whether
you've been in the immigrants' rights fight or not, now
is the time when it really is like all hands
on deck. So don't be afraid to get involved. But also,
you know, like we were talking about before we started,
(27:42):
is I think guarantee that there is some immigrants rights
movement in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Your locale or somewhere close by.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And I think it's just so important to you know,
approach this work not with the assumption that you are starting,
you know, launching this new campaign, spearheading this you know, new,
previously untapped, you know, area of work, because I guarantee
you that you know, there are people who have have
(28:14):
worked on this before. And so I think connect with
you know, connect both with people who have been doing
this work for a long time, and also try to
connect with people who you might not otherwise have thought
to connect with. And I think it's important to call
out the nimbiism, the not in my backyardism of of how,
(28:38):
you know, some people are coming at this issue because
they're you know, they're worried about their property value.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But it's also something that we can capitalize on.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Right It's energy and oftentimes it's people with capital and
connections that.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know that you might not otherwise have had access
to either.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So I think, you know, the connecting you know, in
the community organizing needs to go in multiple directions, but
I do think it's important to move.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, it's important to move.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Fast, Yeah seriously, Like like that is a very constrained timeline,
like everybody has to be, but that means it's also
important to move respectfully, right, because like, if we just
blow each other shit up, because yet people assume that
migrant communities have somehow not been advocating for themselves in
each other for centuries, then we're not going to have
(29:31):
time to organize because we're going to be dealing with
that shit. And I've seen that so much just personally, right,
Like having been involved for some time in migrant advocacy
and seeing folks like pop in and tell us how
to do everything. It's tiresome, and I understand that you'll
want to help, but yeah, if this is something that
(29:52):
like you're organizing around, super easy to find those organizations
to be like, how can I help?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, And it's also such a good like this fight
in particular is such a good vehicle for fighting.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
For abolition overall.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
As someone who's been saying abolish ice for years, it
is amazing to see how much traction that phrase has gotten,
especially over the last six months and We can't just
be fighting against you know, preventing.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
New ICE facilities.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
We need to be fighting for shutting down all ICE
facilities and for abolishing ICE as an institution. We've been
around before ICE, and we will be around after ICE.
As you know, as an agency, ICE has only been
around since two thousand and three. Sure there was a predecessor,
there was the i INS, but I mean it didn't
(30:48):
operate in nearly the type of way that ICE does
now as this you know, law enforcement agency. And even
before Trump, like ICE was still a really you know,
horrible like a horrible yeah, yeah, agency, And so yeah,
I think it's important to continue to you know, point
these things out while also you know, welcoming people into
(31:09):
the fight and.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, and pushing them, pushing them further.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I think that's really it's really important. Like I
think we have to rebut the assumption that this is
an aberration and we can fix it and go back
to normal, because normal was bad and you just couldn't
see it because it wasn't on your screen, right, Like
children died in outdoor attention under Biden. I saw people
(31:36):
suffer im mentally in outdoor attention Underbiden. Like we don't
want to go back to that either. And I think
it's really important that when we build these coalitions we
build them with that in mind, that like, we're organizing
very quickly, but also we're in this for the long horn,
until everybody's free. Is there anything that you'd like to
leave people with resources or a bit of advice, any
(31:59):
like closing words to share with him?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Abolish ize? It's all I got perfect. It Could Happen
Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You
can now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed
directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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