August 20, 2024 • 24 mins
Robert and Gare report on pro-Palestine protests in Chicago on the first day of the Democratic National Convention.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Coolso media, welcome to it could happen here, a podcast
about it happening here and here this week is Chicago.
I'm Robert Evans. I'm here in town with Sophie Lichterman,
who will not be on MIC for this episode but
will be later this week. And Garrison Davis Hello, with
whom I've been out all day in the streets.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We are currently recording just a few blocks away from
the DNC protest, the Coalition to.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
March down on the Corn out in the street, So.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
We apologize for whatever sounds are getting picked up. Today's
been very hectic. There's been protests all day that me
and Robert have been at and that's mostly what we're
gonna be talking about you today.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So this is day one of the DNC.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We actually have not yet been inside the venue, although
we will be later for the speeches. Today has basically
all been protests. So at the start of the day
I went to the kind of temporary headquarters out of
like a rental space, and I think north Shire, Cagot.
Don't quote me on the exact chunk of town. I'm
bad at directions, but organizations called behind enemy lines and
(01:08):
it's a local they call themselves a militant activist group.
That has been kind of controversial because they have made
a couple of statements about something. So what was the
rhyme nineteen sixty eight was.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That the slogan they've been using is make it great,
like sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Make it great, because nineteen sixty eight was a famously
bloody DNC as a result of the conflict over McGovern
versus Hubert Humphrey. And this is not so far very
much like sixty eight because everyone's known who the candidates
are going to be going into this thing, and the
protest today, at least by the time we left, no
(01:44):
serious violence. You know, I didn't want to talk a
little bit about that group because they've made some interesting
statements and this is not their march today. The march
today that we were at is specifically billed as the
family friendly one, whereas behind enemy Lines has made a
couple of statements of like, you know, collect bruises from
the Chicago police. It's the new fall fashion, that sort
(02:04):
of deal. So they're really playing up the hole. There's
going to be a big conflict thing. If that happens,
it'll be tomorrow because that's when their event is planned
today was the event that everyone thought was going to
be the largest march probably will be.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's called the March on the DNC twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's put together by a coalition of a lot of
like local different organs in Chicago as well as some
once from around the country.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So heading into this, when organizers were asked, they said
they were expecting thirty to forty thousand. I saw a
video by I think a CNN guy where he was like,
fifty thousand people could show up. That's not the numbers
we've seen. I would say two to three thousand, maybe
five the most, maybe five k kind of on the
outside end. One of the organizers on the mic said
(02:48):
that they had fifteen k there. I don't think that
was fifteen thousand people. I will say there's more protesters
than cops, but it is closer to parody in terms
of numbers than you normally get. The Chicago police have
been lining every block for several blocks around the protest
lines and lines of police vans, some of them fold
with riot teams, some of them clearly for potential arrestees.
(03:10):
Every time the protests moved. They started in Union Park
and moved towards what was the number.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Of the park number five seven eight.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Five to seven eight sounds like a fucking half life two.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Which is the park that Chicago and DNC is wanting
most of the protests to take place at. Protesters, at
least these pig coalitions have preferred to use Union Park
as it's bigger. But in this very moment, we just
walked over from PARC five seven eight, where people are
currently lined up in front of the fence.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I would say it was a very controlled event. It's
possible something's happened since we've left, or will happen later,
especially people try to occupy the park, But from what
happened while we were there, there was a group of
a protest safety team who we're all wearing Hives vests
that the entire line of march. The march itself was
hmm done on two sides by lines of bike cops
(03:59):
using their bikes to make a mobile wall. Inside the
line of bike cops was a line of protest safety
people in Hiva's vests who when folks tried to confront
the fence, there's a fence that is essentially the same
fence we had in Portland lining et side of the DNC.
Some groups of people tried to confront that tried to
get off of the route of march and move somewhere
(04:22):
other than back to the park that the safety team wanted,
and the safety team basically walled off the protest from
doing anything but going back into the park, essentially doing
like kind of what the police were doing directly next
to the police, which caused some conflict and some soreness
among people. But as of the time we left like
nothing else had really happened.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Hello, Future Gear here cutting in from the middle of
the DNC where I was just suffering through the Hillary
Clinton speech, and I'm here to tell you that more
in fact did happen, and things actually did get a
little bit more spicy. But you will hear about that
a little bit later on in the episode. Anyway, back
to us sitting on a random Chicago street corner. Yeah,
(05:05):
among the five thousand people, there's a lot of like
smaller groups. You know, you will have a few hundreds
of people from this organization, this organization, and it's a
lot of regular people who are both against the genocide
in Palestine. They do not believe that either political party
is going to put an effort to actually achieve that,
and they, you know, put most of the blame for
sending bombs to Israel on Biden and now Kamala.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And I would say that's the vast majority. I did
run into some people wearing like DNC Kamala shirts that
my understanding was they were kind of here to get
the vibe. And yeah, it was definitely a lot of
hostility towards the DNC, so I guess would be not
a positive reaction. There a couple of different communist organizations.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Here, including five I've never heard of before.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yes, almost none of them, but RevCom was there, which
is a fun one that's essentially a cult PSL.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
A few other PSLs.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There also, kind of on the coltiest side of things,
I guess.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Highlights.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
We did meet a lot of nice people out there,
a lot of fans of the show. I was happy
to see that they were not with the Popovacchi and crew.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Everyone was very nice.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I hope we weren't too Kurt, which is kind of
exhausted and I've been talking to folks all day.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I was able to geolocate enemy of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Jack Posobic. Yes, yes he was in quote unquote Camo.
He was just wearing a green shirt and a kefia
around his face, trying to interview people. I ran up
to him and yelled his name out repeatedly until he
acknowledged that he was in fact Jack Pisobic. Then I
asked him about an event from twenty seventeen where he
showed up at a protest undercover as an ANTIFA with
(06:43):
a sign that said rape Milania. BuzzFeed immediately published text
messages of him essentially talking to a friend about like, Yeah,
I think this would be a great idea. We need
to get somebody in there with this fucked up sign.
So I asked him about it. He didn't want to answer,
but he eventually left. I think the only people who
were willing to talk to him were communists who wanted
to quote long passages of political writing at him. So
(07:07):
I don't think it was a great content day for Jack.
But we'll see. Maybe this will be what causes him
to blow up. We're going to do some ads and
we're going to come back and talk about some of
our highlights, what we expect from the week ahead and
the great city of Chicago, and we're back. Garrison are
(07:32):
you aware because we're in Chicago. But the south side
of this very city is, according to many, the baddest
part of town.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And if you go down there.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I'm just telling you, if you go to the
south side of Chicago, you need to be aware of
a man called Leroy.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
B I knew it, bad, bad Leroy. But he's the
baddest man in the whole damn town here.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I knew it batter than old King Kong. He's meaner
than a junkyard dog.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I'm not looking at my fucking notes, all right, Okay, great.
As Robert was checking out this office for this other
group planning a protest at the Israeli Conslitch tomorrow, I
got to the Union Park protest early, was able to
walk around, got a whole bunch of flyers for communist
magazines that I again have never heard of, And you
don't need to seek them out either. They will walk
up to you and put one in yours.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
A whole book by Caleb Mappin, who is a luite communist,
which is like it's like the it's like the foil
Charizard Communist, like you're really yeah, it's beautiful stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And then we had like three hours of speeches before
people eventually left and marched to the march to the
DNC fence by Park five seven eight. And although most
of this is about Palestine, there also is some like
intersectionality with a few other things. You know, there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Of LGBTQ stuff, a lot of trans a lot of
TBTQ stuff, all them stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Obviously, a lot of abortion rights and stuff that is
one of abortion rights that has become a recurring, recurring
talking point that I think, I think I'll mention something
a little bit closer to the end.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, because there's one of the groups of counter protesters
who has kind of shown up for these people purporting
to be like dims against abortion. Basically one of their
chants was essentially being anti abortion is being pro trans
because trans people might get aborted, which was a fascinating
argument and.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
An amazing chant both like abortion is able, lest abortions transphobic,
abortion is racist. You know, all of all the things
and what.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I'll say, so you know, obviously you and I have
both expressed either of us really like it when at
a protest you have a group of people basically being
security who wall off other people from doing stuff. What
I will say the protest safety team was effective at
was every time someone like the Progressives against abortion or
whoever would show up, there was a one literal fascist
lady who I was definitely unwell with like a cardboard
(09:37):
sign covered in racial slurs. They would just get a
team to kind of wall them off with their bodies
and it kept them from becoming like media were not
focused around the folks coming into disrep stuff like they
were at the march yesterday. We were at a march
on Sunday afternoon, where as soon as those anti abortion
folks showed up, every camera turned towards them because there's
this thought that like, oh maybe this is where there
(09:58):
will be a conflict.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think walling off groups like that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I dare get effective way to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do get very hesitant and a little bit on
my toes whenever they start walling off people in the
crowd who are actual participants, who are just doing something
that people in haives vests don't like. Yes, and when
you start restricting their freedom of movement, when you start
walling them off and keep and pushing them towards the
police away, everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Else looks like they were trying to push a chunk
of the crowd.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You can get pretty fucked up, including the person with
a YPG flag that you know, I don't know, I'm
just inherently sympathetic towards. But yeah, trying to push them
towards the police riot line. I did not like seeing that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And there was some talk about this leading up to
the DNC. There was some like leaked memo I think
from some PSL people and a few other orgs about
plans too if there was any like quote unquote like
disruptors or whatever, to circle them off, keep them away
from the march, make sure they cannot rejoin the march
and push them towards the police line. Yeah, and that
is never great. That's never great to see.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
No, especially when all of your chants are like fuck
the DNC, Kamala is evil. But like we need to
do what the police are not doing here, Like we
have to be the cops.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You're preventing people from actually marching to the DNC. And
for most of this march on Monday, it was the
cops who were leading the march, yes, literally of the
march in front of everybody. They both had all of
the streets walled off.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
At the head it was about six to eight cops
at any given time, and then a couple of dozen
people with cameras, media, and then it was the actual protest.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
But it's essentially the whole the whole march is being
is being led by police. And that's also one thing.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Is ween surrounded.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Whenever you're chanting like who streets are streets and all
these other things, you're like, this is this is basically
a cop street. This is basically a cop led protest.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
The cops at.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Most points I was I was walking by a Chicago
ped sergeant who was on his comms and he was telling,
like everyone on the walkie talkie system or whatever, like
there's there is quote nothing nefarious going on, there's nothing
to worry about. Everything's good. And yet from their perspective,
that was what most of today was like, at least
until a few hours ago. When people in the actual
(11:59):
protest are organized committee, we're sectioning off people that they
didn't like.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
From what I have seen so far, you know, there's
not much that would go viral that would be big
news from this protest, certainly, not much that you would
say it was embarrassing to anyone. But there's also not
much that's gonna like draw any attention if you're considering
that the goal of activism like this, I don't I
don't see this as like being a needle moving march.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And even if you have a martial tie dozen people,
which is good, when it's after three hours of speeches
about communism, that's not actually doing anything to put pressure
on like the vit administration and the Democrats to actually
do something about Palestine.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
There were several minutes today about getting the US out
of Korea, and like that's going to be your issue.
That's going to be your issue. But like if you
if you're kind of making it about.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Everything, it's about nothing.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, it's about nothing. It was not a lot of
punch to today.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
A ceasefire, and Palestine is a very popular issue and important.
But the more time that you're talking about and trying
to recruit people for like the Revolution TM and fill
up your sign up sheet and have speeches about about
you know, Marxism, the Marxism, Leninism, the Immortal Science, that's
not going to actually help anyone in Palestine. At this point,
I'm not sure how affective these protests are going to be.
(13:09):
That's always hard to say. But if you are actually
trying to apply pressure onto the Democrats onto, like the
party in charge of the executive branch, I think focusing
on that would would probably be be a slightly more beneficial. Hello,
this is gear cutting in again from a corridor underneath
the Democratic National Convention the United Center in Chicago. Sleepy
(13:31):
Joe Biden's about hit the stage. Before he does, I
need to give you a special update. So right after
we recorded this little street conversation between me and Robert,
a whole bunch of more things happened. So there was
already some kind of inter conflict within the march. On
the way to park five seven eight, people had different
ideas on where they wanted the march to be like
directed to whether that's just a stopping at the park
(13:52):
or trying to break through and go further into the
actual like DNC perimeter. And eventually we had a smaller
group of people kind of up by the fence line
that were able to breach a small secret of the
fence and people started going into one of the many
layered barricades at the DNC. Now, as this was happening,
some of the protest marshals like organizers and stuff, tried
(14:14):
to rally the rest of the crowd to march back
to Union Park away from this breach at the DNC
and others started pouring in. There was maybe about like
fifty to seventy five people who actually broke through this line,
and maybe like half of them were protesters, the other
half were like press and media. A whole bunch of
the guys that going through those barricades are people looking
to take photos, and it was a lot of press.
(14:35):
But police did pressure people out. I think they arrested
maybe like three people in this whole mess. But police
pushed the remaining people out of the park and closed
it for safety concerns. And then those people who got
pushed out and then people who were kind of already
were on the move met back at Union Park where
the day's protests began, and almost immediately they started setting
up in campments, setting up tents, doing like logistics stuff.
(14:58):
Now police saw this happen, did not like this very much,
and they quickly moved in and gave a dispersal order.
I believe two people were arrested during this kind of
second kerfuffle. Police were saying like people can stay in
the park as long as you're not setting up tense,
as long as you're not doing like larger logistics, you know,
using the sound system, all these kinds of things. And
at a certain point, I think police pushed most people
(15:20):
either onto the edges, onto the periphery orders out of
the area, but a whole bunch of like swat to
a whole bunch of Chicago PD just surrounded this whole
area and kept a pretty tight lit on things. So
I know people were planning to want to do a
larger encampment tonight and Chicago p D would not let
that happen. And for whatever reason, there was either wasn't
(15:41):
enough people or there wasn't enough like logistics or dedication
to really fight off the chicagopd's incursion in Union Park.
So now the day is wrapping up, Joe Biden's about
to head on stage, and that is the situation for
the protests. The first day of the DNC back to
Robert Evans is sitting on a random street corner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So you know, the highlight to me of today again,
we met a lot of very nice fans and they
all seem to be doing smart things, which I like seeing.
There was an old man who had he had a
big Palestinian flag and underneath it was a Bosnian flag.
So we went up to him because I was just
kind of curious. I had a feeling it had something
to do with the genocide, but like you know, I
wanted to talk. And he was a survivor of Strebernitza,
(16:25):
which was a massacre during the the Yugoslav breakup that was,
I mean, just one of the worst exogenocide of the
twentieth century. We talked ab it because I'd been to
stre Burnitza and interviewed some survivors and stuff, and he
was like very moved to be here, expressed a lot
of solidarity with Gaza.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Essentially said like I.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Lived through a genocide too, so I'm going to show
up and support these people, which was very moving. Was
the probably the most moving part, definitely the most moving
part of the day for me.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Among all these big like socialist communist newspaper organizations.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
People handing out books, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
And a lot of just people who actually really care
about what's going on, and this feels like to them,
like the only thing that they can do. Yes, like,
especially if you're like from this area, if you're from
the Midwest, you're like, what can actually do to stop
what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They are all of the leaders of the Democratic Party
are here, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And that is the majority of the thousands that are gathered.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, you know, I have to say again not to
just be shitting on people, but it's probably a tactical
mistake to prior to the event. In the days heading
up to this, some of the organizers said they were
expecting thirty to forty thousand people in town for protests.
And you know, the crowd we got today was a
solid crowd five thousand people or so. You know, marching
(17:47):
three to five thousand not bad. But when you've gotten
people prepped for that, then the story is going to
be that, like, well, less people than expected showed up,
and that can be used by folks to make the
case that like, well, this isn't really that popular an
issue for the Democrats, Why should they care as much
about it as they would if you had gotten fifty
thousand people in the street.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Anyway, So that was the second protest at the DNC. Technically,
the first protest was yesterday. The day before mentioned that
I actually started and yes, both me and Robert were there.
I showed up as early as usual, and Robert showed
up late as usual.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's right, that's right, late and hungover, don't you forget hungover?
Of course I got drunk as hell on that plane.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It started off with maybe like five hundred people slowly
accumulated to the too, but like a thousand. This protest
was called Bodies Outside Unjust Laws. It was about Palestine
liberation as a part of reproductive justice and trying to
tie these issues together, So trying to like rope in
like a reproductive rights feminists whore here for the DNC
into looking at Gaza as a part of the reproductive
(18:48):
rights issue with like the deaths of you know, mothers,
the restriction of healthcare and gaza deaths of babies, childrens.
I've britt in children from families after bobbings or evacuations,
all all that kind of stuff. Yeah, So initially they
were all in front of the Chicago Trump Tower, which
unfortunately is a pretty good looking building, at least in
my opinion. There was also a few like big anti
Trump scigns as there as there were today. There was
(19:09):
there was a yeah, there was a woman with a
sign that that just read Trump and JAD events are weird.
But she also had Gaza stuff a like she also
had like Gaza pimps.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And there were also there's some people who, I you
could tell her here for the DNC, but who showed
up and like yelled in support, but also had like
a Kamala shirt. Or there was one lady who had
like fuck Trump went written on her arm and who
clearly just kind of showed up in between her day
to like go cheer a couple of times then move on.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Just like today. You know, there was there was PSL People.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Party for Socialism and Liberation, if you're curious.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
There was there was this one other socialist group who
was really repping Jill Stein, say Jill Stein, you know,
saying she's the only candidate that is against the genocide,
which technically isn't true the Libertarian Party.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Candidate, she's been pro several genocides and.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Similar today. You know, there were some people who showed
up to be like corkers, right people on bikes to
help section off the march from like roads or cars,
which proved to be ultimately useless because police were doing
all of the core and lots of cops. Immediately when
I when I was walking downtown to this protest yesterday,
just the sheer number of Chicago PD was just stifling.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
This is very different from the rn C almost I
would say ninety five percent of the law enforcement we've
seen have been Chicago and Illinois cops.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes, actual local police, as opposed to the RNC, where
there's a majority like out of state police. Yes yesterday
did not have tons of medics today did. That's not unsurprising.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Everyone was expecting today to be the biggest day and
it probably will turn.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Out to be, yes But like I said, yeah, I
mean even yesterday at the very first one, they still
they saw one thousand people. They were really really tying
as much as they could into the reproductive rights issue. Yeah,
we saw, we saw pussy hats, we saw you know,
all of all that kind of stuff. And one of
the funniest things from yesterday and we saw some of
it today too, is that with all these different communist newspapers,
(20:54):
they were like competing, they were competing to be the
ones that have like the true path to the revolution,
like handing out flyers to go pamphlets and be like, no,
this is we we we're the ones that haven't figured out,
and you have like seven of these groups going after
this saint like the same person.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yes, I felt very good when Jack wound up stumbling
into one of those guys because I was like, Okay,
he is going to bore the hell out of Jack bisobic,
but he's clearly he's also like has enough talking points
that they're just kind of be going to be running
talking points at each other, which is good. I always
get worried when some one like Jack shows up that
they're going to find either some like nice, normal person
(21:30):
who's not ready to be on camera, or you know.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Somebody who's especially protests like this.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
She often I'm like an old guy who's an anti
circumsition activist just shows up to every protest and he's
like kind of harmless kook, and they get made fun
of a lot. So I'm always happy to see when
an asshole shows up and gets confronted by someone who
is just ready to sit in there and talk for hours.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And you know, similar to today, there was a small
collection quote unquote like progressive anti abortion activists that showed up.
They kept mostly to the side of the crowd, largely
ignored them. But one thing I did like is that
there was people in the crowd caring around signs about
like abortion pill instructions like how to use one, where
to get one, and that was that was that was
(22:10):
very nice to see. And similar to today as well,
there was a few like DNC volunteers walking through the crowd,
either because they actually do agree with these issues or
just because they're like just because like they're curious. Who
knows what I mean. Obviously they're still you know, probably
more Proherris and most people in the crowd, but they
still might you know, nominally care about these issues. But
yesterday they got booed, well walking through the crowd. The
(22:32):
crowd was was was not was not happy to have them,
specifically the people from behind enemy lines. We're giving out
most of the booze. Referring to the protest tomorrow at
the Israeli Consulate at seven pm, that's Tuesday, they said
that they're gonna be the group that quote unquote brings
the ruckus, and that is the vibe that they have.
I think that is probably that's gonna be maybe one
(22:52):
of the more like conflictual protests, yes that we're gonna
see this week tomorrow on that's that's too out doubt.
So yeah, well we will be there on Tuesday to
see what goes down there. I'm about to walk into
the DNC to hear Old Sleepy Joe. We're taking bets
to see if he has a stroke on stage. One
thing that people have been able to use a lot
and that is, you know, a very real and valid
(23:14):
issue is that just last week, the government, including you know,
the Biden Harris administration as well as Congress, proved a
twenty billion dollar arms deal to Israel. We know how
they're using these weapons. As many meetings that Kam's going
to take about, you know, in arms embargo. At least
currently we are still sending over We're doing the opposite,
which is what most people gathered here are concerned about.
You know, it's great to see people talking about abortion
(23:35):
and LGBTQ stuff, you know, all the other reasons that
the US is doing things that are bad. But you know,
when it comes to like talking to like the Democrats
at the DNC right that the Democrats are pro abortion.
They are, they are nominally pro these things. Pressuring on
the Palestinian stuff is going to be probably the biggest
thing as expected.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, in these next few days.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So we'll see how that goes. We'll be back tomorrow
and the rest of the week. From the DNC. This
has been It Could Happen Here, happening to you.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
It could Happen Here, as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at
coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,
Coolso media, welcome to it could happen here, a podcast
about it happening here and here this week is Chicago.
I'm Robert Evans. I'm here in town with Sophie Lichterman,
who will not be on MIC for this episode but
will be later this week. And Garrison Davis Hello, with
whom I've been out all day in the streets.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We are currently recording just a few blocks away from
the DNC protest, the Coalition to.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
March down on the Corn out in the street, So.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
We apologize for whatever sounds are getting picked up. Today's
been very hectic. There's been protests all day that me
and Robert have been at and that's mostly what we're
gonna be talking about you today.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So this is day one of the DNC.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We actually have not yet been inside the venue, although
we will be later for the speeches. Today has basically
all been protests. So at the start of the day
I went to the kind of temporary headquarters out of
like a rental space, and I think north Shire, Cagot.
Don't quote me on the exact chunk of town. I'm
bad at directions, but organizations called behind enemy lines and
(01:08):
it's a local they call themselves a militant activist group.
That has been kind of controversial because they have made
a couple of statements about something. So what was the
rhyme nineteen sixty eight was.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That the slogan they've been using is make it great,
like sixty eight.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Make it great, because nineteen sixty eight was a famously
bloody DNC as a result of the conflict over McGovern
versus Hubert Humphrey. And this is not so far very
much like sixty eight because everyone's known who the candidates
are going to be going into this thing, and the
protest today, at least by the time we left, no
(01:44):
serious violence. You know, I didn't want to talk a
little bit about that group because they've made some interesting
statements and this is not their march today. The march
today that we were at is specifically billed as the
family friendly one, whereas behind enemy Lines has made a
couple of statements of like, you know, collect bruises from
the Chicago police. It's the new fall fashion, that sort
(02:04):
of deal. So they're really playing up the hole. There's
going to be a big conflict thing. If that happens,
it'll be tomorrow because that's when their event is planned
today was the event that everyone thought was going to
be the largest march probably will be.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's called the March on the DNC twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's put together by a coalition of a lot of
like local different organs in Chicago as well as some
once from around the country.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So heading into this, when organizers were asked, they said
they were expecting thirty to forty thousand. I saw a
video by I think a CNN guy where he was like,
fifty thousand people could show up. That's not the numbers
we've seen. I would say two to three thousand, maybe
five the most, maybe five k kind of on the
outside end. One of the organizers on the mic said
(02:48):
that they had fifteen k there. I don't think that
was fifteen thousand people. I will say there's more protesters
than cops, but it is closer to parody in terms
of numbers than you normally get. The Chicago police have
been lining every block for several blocks around the protest
lines and lines of police vans, some of them fold
with riot teams, some of them clearly for potential arrestees.
(03:10):
Every time the protests moved. They started in Union Park
and moved towards what was the number.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Of the park number five seven eight.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Five to seven eight sounds like a fucking half life two.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Which is the park that Chicago and DNC is wanting
most of the protests to take place at. Protesters, at
least these pig coalitions have preferred to use Union Park
as it's bigger. But in this very moment, we just
walked over from PARC five seven eight, where people are
currently lined up in front of the fence.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I would say it was a very controlled event. It's
possible something's happened since we've left, or will happen later,
especially people try to occupy the park, But from what
happened while we were there, there was a group of
a protest safety team who we're all wearing Hives vests
that the entire line of march. The march itself was
hmm done on two sides by lines of bike cops
(03:59):
using their bikes to make a mobile wall. Inside the
line of bike cops was a line of protest safety
people in Hiva's vests who when folks tried to confront
the fence, there's a fence that is essentially the same
fence we had in Portland lining et side of the DNC.
Some groups of people tried to confront that tried to
get off of the route of march and move somewhere
(04:22):
other than back to the park that the safety team wanted,
and the safety team basically walled off the protest from
doing anything but going back into the park, essentially doing
like kind of what the police were doing directly next
to the police, which caused some conflict and some soreness
among people. But as of the time we left like
nothing else had really happened.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Hello, Future Gear here cutting in from the middle of
the DNC where I was just suffering through the Hillary
Clinton speech, and I'm here to tell you that more
in fact did happen, and things actually did get a
little bit more spicy. But you will hear about that
a little bit later on in the episode. Anyway, back
to us sitting on a random Chicago street corner. Yeah,
(05:05):
among the five thousand people, there's a lot of like
smaller groups. You know, you will have a few hundreds
of people from this organization, this organization, and it's a
lot of regular people who are both against the genocide
in Palestine. They do not believe that either political party
is going to put an effort to actually achieve that,
and they, you know, put most of the blame for
sending bombs to Israel on Biden and now Kamala.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And I would say that's the vast majority. I did
run into some people wearing like DNC Kamala shirts that
my understanding was they were kind of here to get
the vibe. And yeah, it was definitely a lot of
hostility towards the DNC, so I guess would be not
a positive reaction. There a couple of different communist organizations.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Here, including five I've never heard of before.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yes, almost none of them, but RevCom was there, which
is a fun one that's essentially a cult PSL.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
A few other PSLs.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There also, kind of on the coltiest side of things,
I guess.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Highlights.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
We did meet a lot of nice people out there,
a lot of fans of the show. I was happy
to see that they were not with the Popovacchi and crew.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Everyone was very nice.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I hope we weren't too Kurt, which is kind of
exhausted and I've been talking to folks all day.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I was able to geolocate enemy of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Jack Posobic. Yes, yes he was in quote unquote Camo.
He was just wearing a green shirt and a kefia
around his face, trying to interview people. I ran up
to him and yelled his name out repeatedly until he
acknowledged that he was in fact Jack Pisobic. Then I
asked him about an event from twenty seventeen where he
showed up at a protest undercover as an ANTIFA with
(06:43):
a sign that said rape Milania. BuzzFeed immediately published text
messages of him essentially talking to a friend about like, Yeah,
I think this would be a great idea. We need
to get somebody in there with this fucked up sign.
So I asked him about it. He didn't want to answer,
but he eventually left. I think the only people who
were willing to talk to him were communists who wanted
to quote long passages of political writing at him. So
(07:07):
I don't think it was a great content day for Jack.
But we'll see. Maybe this will be what causes him
to blow up. We're going to do some ads and
we're going to come back and talk about some of
our highlights, what we expect from the week ahead and
the great city of Chicago, and we're back. Garrison are
(07:32):
you aware because we're in Chicago. But the south side
of this very city is, according to many, the baddest
part of town.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And if you go down there.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I'm just telling you, if you go to the
south side of Chicago, you need to be aware of
a man called Leroy.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
B I knew it, bad, bad Leroy. But he's the
baddest man in the whole damn town here.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I knew it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I knew it batter than old King Kong. He's meaner
than a junkyard dog.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I'm not looking at my fucking notes, all right, Okay, great.
As Robert was checking out this office for this other
group planning a protest at the Israeli Conslitch tomorrow, I
got to the Union Park protest early, was able to
walk around, got a whole bunch of flyers for communist
magazines that I again have never heard of, And you
don't need to seek them out either. They will walk
up to you and put one in yours.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
A whole book by Caleb Mappin, who is a luite communist,
which is like it's like the it's like the foil
Charizard Communist, like you're really yeah, it's beautiful stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And then we had like three hours of speeches before
people eventually left and marched to the march to the
DNC fence by Park five seven eight. And although most
of this is about Palestine, there also is some like
intersectionality with a few other things. You know, there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Of LGBTQ stuff, a lot of trans a lot of
TBTQ stuff, all them stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Obviously, a lot of abortion rights and stuff that is
one of abortion rights that has become a recurring, recurring
talking point that I think, I think I'll mention something
a little bit closer to the end.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, because there's one of the groups of counter protesters
who has kind of shown up for these people purporting
to be like dims against abortion. Basically one of their
chants was essentially being anti abortion is being pro trans
because trans people might get aborted, which was a fascinating
argument and.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
An amazing chant both like abortion is able, lest abortions transphobic,
abortion is racist. You know, all of all the things
and what.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I'll say, so you know, obviously you and I have
both expressed either of us really like it when at
a protest you have a group of people basically being
security who wall off other people from doing stuff. What
I will say the protest safety team was effective at
was every time someone like the Progressives against abortion or
whoever would show up, there was a one literal fascist
lady who I was definitely unwell with like a cardboard
(09:37):
sign covered in racial slurs. They would just get a
team to kind of wall them off with their bodies
and it kept them from becoming like media were not
focused around the folks coming into disrep stuff like they
were at the march yesterday. We were at a march
on Sunday afternoon, where as soon as those anti abortion
folks showed up, every camera turned towards them because there's
this thought that like, oh maybe this is where there
(09:58):
will be a conflict.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think walling off groups like that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I dare get effective way to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do get very hesitant and a little bit on
my toes whenever they start walling off people in the
crowd who are actual participants, who are just doing something
that people in haives vests don't like. Yes, and when
you start restricting their freedom of movement, when you start
walling them off and keep and pushing them towards the
police away, everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Else looks like they were trying to push a chunk
of the crowd.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You can get pretty fucked up, including the person with
a YPG flag that you know, I don't know, I'm
just inherently sympathetic towards. But yeah, trying to push them
towards the police riot line. I did not like seeing that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And there was some talk about this leading up to
the DNC. There was some like leaked memo I think
from some PSL people and a few other orgs about
plans too if there was any like quote unquote like
disruptors or whatever, to circle them off, keep them away
from the march, make sure they cannot rejoin the march
and push them towards the police line. Yeah, and that
is never great. That's never great to see.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
No, especially when all of your chants are like fuck
the DNC, Kamala is evil. But like we need to
do what the police are not doing here, Like we
have to be the cops.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You're preventing people from actually marching to the DNC. And
for most of this march on Monday, it was the
cops who were leading the march, yes, literally of the
march in front of everybody. They both had all of
the streets walled off.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
At the head it was about six to eight cops
at any given time, and then a couple of dozen
people with cameras, media, and then it was the actual protest.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
But it's essentially the whole the whole march is being
is being led by police. And that's also one thing.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Is ween surrounded.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Whenever you're chanting like who streets are streets and all
these other things, you're like, this is this is basically
a cop street. This is basically a cop led protest.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
The cops at.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Most points I was I was walking by a Chicago
ped sergeant who was on his comms and he was telling,
like everyone on the walkie talkie system or whatever, like
there's there is quote nothing nefarious going on, there's nothing
to worry about. Everything's good. And yet from their perspective,
that was what most of today was like, at least
until a few hours ago. When people in the actual
(11:59):
protest are organized committee, we're sectioning off people that they
didn't like.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
From what I have seen so far, you know, there's
not much that would go viral that would be big
news from this protest, certainly, not much that you would
say it was embarrassing to anyone. But there's also not
much that's gonna like draw any attention if you're considering
that the goal of activism like this, I don't I
don't see this as like being a needle moving march.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And even if you have a martial tie dozen people,
which is good, when it's after three hours of speeches
about communism, that's not actually doing anything to put pressure
on like the vit administration and the Democrats to actually
do something about Palestine.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
There were several minutes today about getting the US out
of Korea, and like that's going to be your issue.
That's going to be your issue. But like if you
if you're kind of making it about.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Everything, it's about nothing.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, it's about nothing. It was not a lot of
punch to today.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
A ceasefire, and Palestine is a very popular issue and important.
But the more time that you're talking about and trying
to recruit people for like the Revolution TM and fill
up your sign up sheet and have speeches about about
you know, Marxism, the Marxism, Leninism, the Immortal Science, that's
not going to actually help anyone in Palestine. At this point,
I'm not sure how affective these protests are going to be.
(13:09):
That's always hard to say. But if you are actually
trying to apply pressure onto the Democrats onto, like the
party in charge of the executive branch, I think focusing
on that would would probably be be a slightly more beneficial. Hello,
this is gear cutting in again from a corridor underneath
the Democratic National Convention the United Center in Chicago. Sleepy
(13:31):
Joe Biden's about hit the stage. Before he does, I
need to give you a special update. So right after
we recorded this little street conversation between me and Robert,
a whole bunch of more things happened. So there was
already some kind of inter conflict within the march. On
the way to park five seven eight, people had different
ideas on where they wanted the march to be like
directed to whether that's just a stopping at the park
(13:52):
or trying to break through and go further into the
actual like DNC perimeter. And eventually we had a smaller
group of people kind of up by the fence line
that were able to breach a small secret of the
fence and people started going into one of the many
layered barricades at the DNC. Now, as this was happening,
some of the protest marshals like organizers and stuff, tried
(14:14):
to rally the rest of the crowd to march back
to Union Park away from this breach at the DNC
and others started pouring in. There was maybe about like
fifty to seventy five people who actually broke through this line,
and maybe like half of them were protesters, the other
half were like press and media. A whole bunch of
the guys that going through those barricades are people looking
to take photos, and it was a lot of press.
(14:35):
But police did pressure people out. I think they arrested
maybe like three people in this whole mess. But police
pushed the remaining people out of the park and closed
it for safety concerns. And then those people who got
pushed out and then people who were kind of already
were on the move met back at Union Park where
the day's protests began, and almost immediately they started setting
up in campments, setting up tents, doing like logistics stuff.
(14:58):
Now police saw this happen, did not like this very much,
and they quickly moved in and gave a dispersal order.
I believe two people were arrested during this kind of
second kerfuffle. Police were saying like people can stay in
the park as long as you're not setting up tense,
as long as you're not doing like larger logistics, you know,
using the sound system, all these kinds of things. And
at a certain point, I think police pushed most people
(15:20):
either onto the edges, onto the periphery orders out of
the area, but a whole bunch of like swat to
a whole bunch of Chicago PD just surrounded this whole
area and kept a pretty tight lit on things. So
I know people were planning to want to do a
larger encampment tonight and Chicago p D would not let
that happen. And for whatever reason, there was either wasn't
(15:41):
enough people or there wasn't enough like logistics or dedication
to really fight off the chicagopd's incursion in Union Park.
So now the day is wrapping up, Joe Biden's about
to head on stage, and that is the situation for
the protests. The first day of the DNC back to
Robert Evans is sitting on a random street corner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So you know, the highlight to me of today again,
we met a lot of very nice fans and they
all seem to be doing smart things, which I like seeing.
There was an old man who had he had a
big Palestinian flag and underneath it was a Bosnian flag.
So we went up to him because I was just
kind of curious. I had a feeling it had something
to do with the genocide, but like you know, I
wanted to talk. And he was a survivor of Strebernitza,
(16:25):
which was a massacre during the the Yugoslav breakup that was,
I mean, just one of the worst exogenocide of the
twentieth century. We talked ab it because I'd been to
stre Burnitza and interviewed some survivors and stuff, and he
was like very moved to be here, expressed a lot
of solidarity with Gaza.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Essentially said like I.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Lived through a genocide too, so I'm going to show
up and support these people, which was very moving. Was
the probably the most moving part, definitely the most moving
part of the day for me.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Among all these big like socialist communist newspaper organizations.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
People handing out books, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
And a lot of just people who actually really care
about what's going on, and this feels like to them,
like the only thing that they can do. Yes, like,
especially if you're like from this area, if you're from
the Midwest, you're like, what can actually do to stop
what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They are all of the leaders of the Democratic Party
are here, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And that is the majority of the thousands that are gathered.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, you know, I have to say again not to
just be shitting on people, but it's probably a tactical
mistake to prior to the event. In the days heading
up to this, some of the organizers said they were
expecting thirty to forty thousand people in town for protests.
And you know, the crowd we got today was a
solid crowd five thousand people or so. You know, marching
(17:47):
three to five thousand not bad. But when you've gotten
people prepped for that, then the story is going to
be that, like, well, less people than expected showed up,
and that can be used by folks to make the
case that like, well, this isn't really that popular an
issue for the Democrats, Why should they care as much
about it as they would if you had gotten fifty
thousand people in the street.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Anyway, So that was the second protest at the DNC. Technically,
the first protest was yesterday. The day before mentioned that
I actually started and yes, both me and Robert were there.
I showed up as early as usual, and Robert showed
up late as usual.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's right, that's right, late and hungover, don't you forget hungover?
Of course I got drunk as hell on that plane.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It started off with maybe like five hundred people slowly
accumulated to the too, but like a thousand. This protest
was called Bodies Outside Unjust Laws. It was about Palestine
liberation as a part of reproductive justice and trying to
tie these issues together, So trying to like rope in
like a reproductive rights feminists whore here for the DNC
into looking at Gaza as a part of the reproductive
(18:48):
rights issue with like the deaths of you know, mothers,
the restriction of healthcare and gaza deaths of babies, childrens.
I've britt in children from families after bobbings or evacuations,
all all that kind of stuff. Yeah, So initially they
were all in front of the Chicago Trump Tower, which
unfortunately is a pretty good looking building, at least in
my opinion. There was also a few like big anti
Trump scigns as there as there were today. There was
(19:09):
there was a yeah, there was a woman with a
sign that that just read Trump and JAD events are weird.
But she also had Gaza stuff a like she also
had like Gaza pimps.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And there were also there's some people who, I you
could tell her here for the DNC, but who showed
up and like yelled in support, but also had like
a Kamala shirt. Or there was one lady who had
like fuck Trump went written on her arm and who
clearly just kind of showed up in between her day
to like go cheer a couple of times then move on.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Just like today. You know, there was there was PSL People.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Party for Socialism and Liberation, if you're curious.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
There was there was this one other socialist group who
was really repping Jill Stein, say Jill Stein, you know,
saying she's the only candidate that is against the genocide,
which technically isn't true the Libertarian Party.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Candidate, she's been pro several genocides and.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Similar today. You know, there were some people who showed
up to be like corkers, right people on bikes to
help section off the march from like roads or cars,
which proved to be ultimately useless because police were doing
all of the core and lots of cops. Immediately when
I when I was walking downtown to this protest yesterday,
just the sheer number of Chicago PD was just stifling.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
This is very different from the rn C almost I
would say ninety five percent of the law enforcement we've
seen have been Chicago and Illinois cops.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes, actual local police, as opposed to the RNC, where
there's a majority like out of state police. Yes yesterday
did not have tons of medics today did. That's not unsurprising.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Everyone was expecting today to be the biggest day and
it probably will turn.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Out to be, yes But like I said, yeah, I
mean even yesterday at the very first one, they still
they saw one thousand people. They were really really tying
as much as they could into the reproductive rights issue. Yeah,
we saw, we saw pussy hats, we saw you know,
all of all that kind of stuff. And one of
the funniest things from yesterday and we saw some of
it today too, is that with all these different communist newspapers,
(20:54):
they were like competing, they were competing to be the
ones that have like the true path to the revolution,
like handing out flyers to go pamphlets and be like, no,
this is we we we're the ones that haven't figured out,
and you have like seven of these groups going after
this saint like the same person.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yes, I felt very good when Jack wound up stumbling
into one of those guys because I was like, Okay,
he is going to bore the hell out of Jack bisobic,
but he's clearly he's also like has enough talking points
that they're just kind of be going to be running
talking points at each other, which is good. I always
get worried when some one like Jack shows up that
they're going to find either some like nice, normal person
(21:30):
who's not ready to be on camera, or you know.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Somebody who's especially protests like this.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
She often I'm like an old guy who's an anti
circumsition activist just shows up to every protest and he's
like kind of harmless kook, and they get made fun
of a lot. So I'm always happy to see when
an asshole shows up and gets confronted by someone who
is just ready to sit in there and talk for hours.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And you know, similar to today, there was a small
collection quote unquote like progressive anti abortion activists that showed up.
They kept mostly to the side of the crowd, largely
ignored them. But one thing I did like is that
there was people in the crowd caring around signs about
like abortion pill instructions like how to use one, where
to get one, and that was that was that was
(22:10):
very nice to see. And similar to today as well,
there was a few like DNC volunteers walking through the crowd,
either because they actually do agree with these issues or
just because they're like just because like they're curious. Who
knows what I mean. Obviously they're still you know, probably
more Proherris and most people in the crowd, but they
still might you know, nominally care about these issues. But
yesterday they got booed, well walking through the crowd. The
(22:32):
crowd was was was not was not happy to have them,
specifically the people from behind enemy lines. We're giving out
most of the booze. Referring to the protest tomorrow at
the Israeli Consulate at seven pm, that's Tuesday, they said
that they're gonna be the group that quote unquote brings
the ruckus, and that is the vibe that they have.
I think that is probably that's gonna be maybe one
(22:52):
of the more like conflictual protests, yes that we're gonna
see this week tomorrow on that's that's too out doubt.
So yeah, well we will be there on Tuesday to
see what goes down there. I'm about to walk into
the DNC to hear Old Sleepy Joe. We're taking bets
to see if he has a stroke on stage. One
thing that people have been able to use a lot
and that is, you know, a very real and valid
(23:14):
issue is that just last week, the government, including you know,
the Biden Harris administration as well as Congress, proved a
twenty billion dollar arms deal to Israel. We know how
they're using these weapons. As many meetings that Kam's going
to take about, you know, in arms embargo. At least
currently we are still sending over We're doing the opposite,
which is what most people gathered here are concerned about.
You know, it's great to see people talking about abortion
(23:35):
and LGBTQ stuff, you know, all the other reasons that
the US is doing things that are bad. But you know,
when it comes to like talking to like the Democrats
at the DNC right that the Democrats are pro abortion.
They are, they are nominally pro these things. Pressuring on
the Palestinian stuff is going to be probably the biggest
thing as expected.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, in these next few days.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So we'll see how that goes. We'll be back tomorrow
and the rest of the week. From the DNC. This
has been It Could Happen Here, happening to you.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
It could Happen Here, as a production of cool Zone Media.
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It Could Happen Here News
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Robert Evans
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