The Gang Reviews Andor Season 2, Ep. 4-6

Robert, Mia, and Garrison discuss the second arc of Andor Season 2, covering the infiltration of an underground resistance, weaponized surveillance, and the personal cost of revolution.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Alone media, Welcome back to it could Happen here?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
A podcast normally about it happening here, being you know,
the real world where you live. But for the next
two weeks after this, and for the week before us,
and for this week, we're talking about it happening in
a galaxy far far away. That's right. This is the
second in our four part series reviewing and discussing and

(00:27):
Or Season two, which, due to a series of incredibly
unlikely events, has become the most radical media to reach
a wide audience in the United States and quite some time.
I am here with Mio Wong and Garrison Davis. How
are we all doing today?

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hanging in there, hanging in there as we always are.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah. I just watched episodes seven through nine last night,
which is really helping with the hanging in there.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
I have not seen that shit yet, so yeah, that's
for next week, though we have to say that for
next week.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, well, we're not talking about them now, but we
watched them this week and I'm happy.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
I did watch them, and oh boy, but we still
have a lot to talk about for episodes four to six.
It does kind of set up what we see later on,
but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there
with like building an underground resistance, a lot of spies
an espionage mixed in with like the personal cost of
rebellion and how it affects like your personal life, your relationships.

(01:21):
So there is a lot to discuss here. But oh boy,
I am excited for next week.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, I am very excited for next week. I'm very
excited for this week, which we should talk about so
kind of there's a few themes running through these three episodes.
One of them is, yeah, the cost in terms of
your personal life on being part of a rebellion, And yeah,
I'm interested kind of what are some of the I mean,

(01:48):
there's one real standout moment in these episodes that I
know we're all going to want to talk about, which
is a speech given by Saul Gerrera saw Yeah, played
by Forrest Whitaker, just amazingly.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, the speech, Yeah, the nitrous We'll get to it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
We'll get to that. But yeah, we should start with
the first of these episodes.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, episode four. Ever been to Gorman? I guess once again,
if you do not want to be giving Disney Plus
your money, you can be like Hondo a Naka and
acquire the show that way.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Remember the torret combinations. Remember the variation's got to keep
the ball.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
In your head?

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yes, yes, all nine or eight variations. Let's do a
quick recap of this episode, then we'll talk about some
of these aspects. So one year later from the previous episodes,
Cassiine and Bix are on the planet Coroissant, staying at
a safe house in between running missions for Luthan. Bix
is severely struggling with PTSD, while Cassian is stressed about

(02:42):
having to avoid surveillance while hiding in the capital city.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
And Bix is also we find out abusing space stantics.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, later on we can we can see that she's
she's using using space drugs to help her cope with
the massive amounts of trauma that she's been forced to
deal with the past few years. Now, our favorite weasel,
Cyril Karn, has been transferred to the planet Gormant, where
he's running the local Bureau of Standards in the capital
city of Palmo. He refutes Imperial propaganda about Gorman while

(03:11):
on a FaceTime call with his Fox News addicted.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Most talking about like, yeah, the Imperial the Imperial News
says the Gormans are super arrogant, just real assholes.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
You gotta stop watching Imperial news Man. But this may
be a ploy from Cyril, because Cyril knows he's being
monitored and surveilled by members of the Gorman Front, a
small underground resistance group, while working as a double agent
for his ISB girlfriend Dedra. Sirtle gets invited to a
town hall meeting where he's introduced to the leader of

(03:43):
the Gorman Front, a local businessman and city councilor, and
then Cyril is recruited into the resistance.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah. I want to say a little about the Gorman
Front because they're very clearly French resistance in World War II.
Coded they developed a whole like language for them to speak,
which is basically like French.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
With French phonics, but different words.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
But different words, and so it sounds a little bit
like French and German, like got mashed together. People who
speak both have told me, I don't know, I'm not
a not a language guy, but it sounds distinctive and
they're very clearly like Again, their whole the whole industry
of this planet is high quality textiles that come from
like spider silk, but also clearly the the the guy
who's leading the resistance. His business is kind of meant

(04:25):
to evoke sort of like a classic like French vineyard. Like,
so he's like he's not a poor man, right, Like.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
No, He's like he's like wealthy, he's like well off. Yes, yes,
I mean that's a big part about like Gorman is
this is like a you know, middle upper class like
status planet.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
This is like a big part of like Luten's interest
in the planet is if he can bring a planet
with that status into the rebellion, that could have a
whole bunch of advantages. And that's kind of why he's
at least like looking into them as an option and
eventually kind of setting them up for like an accelerationist push.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, because I actually think it's a slightly different even
than that. But we'll talk about that and up when
we get to episode nine. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Sure, there's an Iceby board meeting where they discuss a
batch of new raids and arrests on rebel activity and
how to deal with this influx of arrests that's making
it hard to process and obtain useful information. Luthn's Iceby
spy informs them of the Empire's increased interest in Gorman
and that the ice be is running covert operations on
the planet. Meanwhile, Senator Manmathma unsuccessfully lobbies against the Emperor's

(05:24):
resentencing directive, and at Sagereri's hidot Willem teaches Saws partisans
how to safety deploy a fuel pipeline of verter.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, and specifically, Saw puts him with one of his
guys who's kind of coded as being like a close
to Saul, Like this is somebody that he really trusts,
and it's kind of implied fairly soon that like Saw
doesn't want this guy going back to Luthen with information, right.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
He wants to keep Willim.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, he's just like kidnap this guy. It's like, well,
he wants to kill him at first. That's the statement
he makes to his guy, is like, once you have
these variations down, we're going to ice him.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Saw doesn't really trust Luthen very much anymore. He never
did Luth and slowly losing a lot of the trust
that he's built up throughout the galaxy.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah. But like one of the things that's interesting here
is that like we kind of see saws paranoia where
there's a bunch of variations you need to know to
get fuel out of any number of different things, and
the guys like I have to memorize too many if
you just let us know which one we're trying to
go after, but that would make it clear which fuel
station they're going after, So Saw doesn't want to say
shit initially.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
So this episode we're introduced to the planet Gorman. Like
in person, it's basically like northern Italy mixed with French culture. Yeah,
the massive set they built is just gorgeous, huge town
square for the capital city of Palmo.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
The amount of money they spent on this show.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
The protesters I think is really interesting because it's.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
Like protesters at like the monument of the Tarkan massacre.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of fascinating because like the way
that their banners are designed really really remind me of
like pictures you see from like nineteen seventeen. Is it's
like very very similar to that. And also they have
a thing that's a very common protest thing where it's
like there's as you know, there's protests going on, so
there's like just like ten guys in the square all
the time, yes, kind of like chantons, Yeah, always making noise.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
They're kind of keeping a vigil because basically what happened.
And this is another interesting Tony Gurroy is kind of
famously not a Star Wars fan like prior to working
on this, and so there was a lot of like
anxiety from big Star Wars nerds that like, oh, this
isn't going to feel like Star Wars, but it clearly
has a lot of folks who understand, not just like
the stuff that's come out, you know, since Disney started,

(07:35):
in the different books and comics, but like the legend
stuff because in legends, like a major spark of the
whole rebellion was the Gorman massacre, which is in tarkan Lands,
and Tarkan's the old guy in the Death Star in
a New Hope, right, Like, he's the guy who's Darth
Vader's boss in the first movie, and he lands a
craft on a crowd at Gorman, and that's supposed to

(07:56):
have been one of the major sparks. And they've retconned
it a little but to the point where that still happened,
but it's clearly the setup for a larger massacre that
this season is building towards.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah, Man, Spacebox News very good. We see the Ministry
of Enlightenment's efforts to weaponize public opinion, and how much
it's working on someone on someone like Cyril's mother, who
who then becomes convinced that like that the propaganda that
she's being fed is stuff that she like already believed
absolutely right, is stuff that she she's like red conned

(08:26):
into her own memory of being like no, like I've
I've always never trusted the Gore. Yeah. Meanwhile, she's like
sitting in front of her like TV like twenty four
to seven, watching this like garbage get beamed into her brain.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
And I'm wondering, did y'all wonder for a second if
Cyril was legitimately getting pilled by totally the GORMANSI yeah,
because it's good. Right, there's like that moment where like, well,
fuck is he is our boy like starting to have
a break already, and then he realized like.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, that's what we're getting.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Like that's kind of what's being set up, is like
like will will this experience for Cyril change him as
a person? And like, I think, yeah, the audience is
meant to not fully know, and I think I think
it's it's definitely like possible. But but Cyril might be
more of a hard ass than what some people give
him credit for. Yeah, because he is. He's very excited
to get invited to this meeting. He purchases a spider

(09:17):
from one of like the Gorman Front like recruiters that
has information on how to how to go to this
like public town hall, where he talks about, hey, you
know if maybe maybe we can start working together, maybe
we can start feeding information. One point, hilariously, he gets
he gets accused of being an Imperial spy in like
a joking manner, yeah, and denies it. And then he
gets on the phone with his IP girlfriend and he's like.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
I'm in also, this is this is this is one
of the first time we see is the Gorman Front people.
These people have no idea what the fuck they're doing.
They are amateurs there they are like yeah, like their
operational security is unbelievably dog shit. They like wiretaffed one
guy and were like, hey, let me introduce you to
the leader of our organization. We have met you one time.

(09:59):
We have listened to one phone call. You're in now.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I just I think they probably listen to more than
but it's yeah, they've definitely been watching hi him much.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
They just were kind of like, hey, you're going to
meet their leader now at the first meeting you've shown
up to he.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Met Like the public facing aspect of it, Yeah, I
guess yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
You can see the gorman like they have some degree
of sophistication and that they're tapping like him and they've
been listening probably for quite a while and they sweep
their shit every day for bugs, so you understand that,
Like they have an idea of what they need to
be doing. But when it comes to all of the
in person stuff, that's where they're incompetent right where they
they don't have the actual operational experience to know when

(10:42):
someone feels off right, Like that's the stuff that they're missing,
Like man to man on the ground is where the
problems come in. Like you can tell they're thinking this
stuff through, but they just don't know what they're doing enough.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
This is this is the thing you I mean, this
is the thing you genuine wine you run into, like
in the field a lot where there's people who like
have read a lot of self bought operational security but
haven't done anything and so they don't under and there's
there's varying levels of this right, but you get this
to do people where it's like they don't know what
the important things are. So they do some of the
stuff right that they've read, but they don't understand how

(11:16):
to put all of it together to like do something securely.
And so you'll get these things where like some of
their stuff is like unbelievably secure to a point where
it's useless, and then some.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Of it is like very open.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, they're just like, hey have I don't know. Yeah,
they'll just bring people into stuff that instantly compromises everything
that they're doing because they haven't like bought it through. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
I mean, and this is something that that Cassian talks
about in the next episode, which we will get to shortly.
I mean, so much of these episodes is built around
like paranoia and like surveillance. We like Cassie's talking about
not wanting to go like on a walk in the
park because the Empire just put up cameras. He's nervous
about like where they go grocery shopping. Like he's trying
to like do everything right, but it's like hurting his

(11:58):
relationship with Bicks, and it's making their life like very
very challenging. En core assant as they're like stationed there
in between missions. Like meanwhile, like Luthan's just trying to
gain as much information on Gorman as possible. He has
a line that I like, a smear campaign is an
opening move, not an endgame. I need the end game. Yeah,
talking about like the limits of you know, the Empire's

(12:19):
Fox News style propaganda is only is only like a
starting position, like this is obviously leading somewhere, and I
need to know where that is. And he's going to
obtain that information slowly over the course of the next few episodes.
And then I think the other thing I want to
talk about before we go on break is Mon Mathma's
lobbying against like the prison sentencing guidelines. She says, quote

(12:43):
sector boundaries, civil liberties, personal freedom, respect for local traditions.
You've been voting with me on these issues for years.
And the Gorman senator replies, this is security. Mon, You're
confusing criminality and politics here. Mon says, really, are we
finding criminals or are we making them? Yeah, this is
where you see senators parroting like fake crime stats about

(13:04):
how there's been like you know, this increased wave of surgery.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
But that's not true.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, because just because they're arresting more people, that makes
there be more crime. And like you see this in
season one where Cassiean's arrested at the Beach planet for
like no reason and then sentenced to the Forever prison. Yeah, like, yeah,
they are arresting more people. So if you just look
at those stats by itself without any context on like
how how other policing is working, then yeah, I can

(13:28):
look a certain way. And this is what Mon's trying
to push back on, and and the other senators are
just too like bought into the empire or too scared,
like the Gorman senator believes that voting against the Emperor
at this point would further endanger his planet. Yeah, even
though this type of thing is actually going to end
up biting him in the ass in the next few years.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, and yeah, he is like very much desperate to like, no, please,
we can we can calm this down if we just
don't piss the empire off enough.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
No.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
The thing I think is actually it's interesting about the
crime statistic stuff is that this is actually a more
sophisticated operation than what happened in real life. We're in
real life, all the actual crime statists were like crime
is falling, but everyone just kept saying there was more
crime totally. Yeah, this is like arrestly more people to
jack the crime rates. That He's a more sophisticated thing
than what we actually dealt with, which was the media just.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Live our own version of this are not outer space
version of like propaganda news. Media can just say something
and you don't even need this tats to back it up. Yeah,
let's go and break and we'll come back to talk
about episode five. I have friends everywhere.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Ah and we're back.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah. So yeah, let's start with the summary of this episode.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
All right, Luthen wants a first person assessment of the
Gorman front, but he's like too high profile to go himself,
so he sends Cassie and undercover as fashion designer variants Sky.
The ISB stage is a performative raid of Cyril Karan's
office to gain more cred with local rebels as Cyril
begins to feed them select information, and.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
He does such a good job of seeming pissed at it.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Oh yeah, he loves he loves pretending to be pissed
at the ISB. He has so much fun kicking his
little trash can across the room. This is outrageous. Yeah,
very good stuff. And I do like, like, yeah, like
the weaponization of like state repression as a tactic to
actually increase state repression, like long term doing this like

(15:32):
performative show so that Cyril like builds trust and like
solidarity with the other rebels. Very good. Luthen visits Bicks
at the safehouse and grows concern for her well being
as she uses space drugs to cope with trauma.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Cyril arrives back on Coruissant to report to ICE B Command,
has a one hour meeting with his girlfriend where they
turn off the lights.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, after arguing because she's had him followed.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah, he's a little the pause that she's having him followed,
and then she orders into Toronto lights and then they
do something for an hour in their apartment.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
God only knows.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I don't want to know. I don't want to know
what this fascist weirdness.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
But at ICE the Command they plan how to like
carefully push the Gorman Front into taking action against the Empire.
Cassian makes contact on Gorman and is unimpressed with their
operational security and Warren's against trusting an imperial source, as
the ISB could be feeding false intel.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Some of the best moments in the episode so far
because it's it's they don't know shit about Cassian, so
they don't know who they're talking to. And when he's like,
you guys, shouldn't do fuck right now because you don't
know shit about fuck, they're like, well, you're not a
real revolutionary.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
You don't get it, And like, honestly, I understand what
what's being expressed there too, and like, well, we'll get
ahead in a sec Like the Gorman Front is adamant
that their source is vetted and reliable, even though they
haven't really been vetted. The plan is is that the
resistance seeks to expose the construction of an imperial military
based on Palmo, something that the Empire denies, though it

(17:07):
seems most of the citizens actually already take this to
be true, so and Or questions the necessity of this
plan and relations sour with the group. Back on Coruscant,
Clea learns through radio chatter that one of Luthan's listening
devices may be discovered. During an artifact reappraisal, Saw kills
an imperial spy and his crew forcibly recruits Willem, and

(17:29):
while on mission installing a fuel diverter, Saw convinces Willem
to huff the fuel fumes.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
I want to talk a little bit about like Cassian
on Gorman. Yes, And there's a lot of interesting stuff there,
and like specifically when the Gorman Front leader like calls
Cassian out for like not being a real revolutionary, which
I think is kind of true. Like Cassia at this
point is a thief and a soldier. He thinks about
things purely from that like operationally like like tactical point

(17:59):
of view. He doesn't have like a larger like politics.
He's like focused on right, like like Luthin is more
of like a revolutionary, a very like manipulative one, but
like he is focused on like this like larger political game.
And this is something that at this point Cassiean's not
fully like interested in. He's more interested on like on
the ground like tactical preparedness.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
He is interested in what he can do and get
away with right exactly as opposed to Luthan is interested
in what does more damage to the Empire. Now, what's
interesting to me is that the Gorman Front are actually
in the middle. They think totally that they are willing
to do whatever, but they don't understand what that is.

(18:37):
And part of what you are seeing here is the
Gorman Front are adamant, we are ready for war. We're
already in a war. Yeah, and they're not technically wrong
about that because the Empire is planning to wipe them out. Right.
We know the Empire does not plan for there to
be a Gorman in the future. So the stakes are
where they're saying they are. But even though they're saying that,

(19:00):
most of them don't truly believe or understand it. And
Cassian understands what war is, and what he is telling
them is that you are and he's right about this.
You are not ready for what you think you're ready
for totally because what you're going to do is die
all of you.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
That's what makes all their interactions so interesting, because there
is that unspoken tention which slowly gets like aired, because
like they're really assessing different things, Like what Cassie's assessing
is different from what Lusen wants assessed, and that's different
from what the Gorman Front actually want to do. Like
they're okay with a degree of casualties like being had
because they just want to like have control over their
planet again and put up any resistance even if it

(19:37):
ends up like leading to hardship.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
But I think the other angle of that too, though,
is it like they don't know what they're doing, right, No, likeha,
they like their plan. Their plan is not genuinely really bad, right.
Like the plan is that they want to like steal
an imperial weapons shipment and then reveal that the Empire
shipping weapons in. But if you do that, then you've
just like and Andrew points it out, like, okay, so
if you if you do this, then you reveal that

(20:01):
you did you hijacked the shipment. So they're just going
to like.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
Raid you all, and they're okay with that, yeah, And
they're like okay with that visibility at this point.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
And there's this this very standard. It's also this very
common and this is part of what Casside recognizes, this
common myopic thing that you get with people who again
think they want a war that they don't truly understand
the meaning of, where they're like, we need, we need weapons,
and when they think of weapons, they think of guns
that they can hold, and so that's what they're focused

(20:32):
on getting and that's what they think will let them
fight the Empire. When Casside understands there's no fighting the
Empire with what you can possibly get from a raid
like this. All there is is suicide. And then there's
the other level of what Luthan understands is so the fuck.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
Was sometimes that needs to happen.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
What matters is that these people die in public and
it pisses people off. Yeah, right, And that's there's this
there's this escalation of like the Gormans think having guns
means you and fight.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Back, or like guns guns means that they'll be safer.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right, and they're wrong. Cassie and thinks staying alive for
a future moment means that you can fight back, and
he is wrong. Luthan understands that the only ammunition that
really counts in this war is human life and that sucks,
and that sucks. That's why he's lost his mind and soul.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Yes, and that's why people are starting to really like
dislike working with him, because he's even though he might
not be like completely wrong here, Yeah, I like so
much of this episode is built around finding bugs. Yeah,
the ISB looks for bugs, in Cyro's office. The Iceba's
planting bugs in Zero's office. Bugs are hidden in the
artifacts that Luthen's selling to high society. Everyone's listening, everyone's always,

(21:42):
everyone's trying to collect more intel.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
And there's this this this issue the Empire and Luthan's
organization are of having with like we're getting too much,
you know. The Empire's like we're arresting too many people,
like yeah, number one, it's like cutting into our ability
to get into these organizations. And it also is just
like we're drowning. And Lutan says the same thing. I'm
always spacing on her name, but she's wonderful to his

(22:04):
his his consent, lady, like, we're drowning, we have too
much shit.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Something I love is when when Cyril's talking with the
Gorman Front about the ISB rate of his office, the
Gorman Front remarks, quote, we think the ISB is running
a shadow government without the Emperor's yes.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yes, And it's a real You hear this when you
read about histories of like Tsarist Russia, like even a
lot of people who take part in the nineteen seventeen
revolution right right up till it started, their attitude was like, oh,
if the Czar knew what his advisors were doing in
his name, he'd exactly it'd be on our side. And
the same thing happened in the Third Reich. If only
Hitler knew was a common phrase. We're like, well, Hitler,

(22:42):
who doesn't know the Gestapo's doing all these awful things?

Speaker 4 (22:44):
Of course, And it's it's so sad because like this
is this is their like local like resistance group who
still has that level of delusion because they come from
the high society, right, they come from this like diplomatic
background where they can like solve solved through through like
free trade. And they're like, sure, surely, surely the Emperor
doesn't actually know what's going on here. It must it
must be like the CIA, it must be the FBI.

(23:06):
It's like the is SB is running a shadow government.
They're the ones that are actually like ruining things. Yes,
And you're like, no, your enemy is the entire empire. Yes,
your enemy is the ISB, but it's also Cyril Karn
and it's also Emperor Palpatine.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yes. And I love That's part of what I love
about that that laddered interaction between them and Cassie and
Cassie and Luthan is they're not really revolutionaries either. They
they are protesters right totally. They still think that the
overall Empire, once it realizes how bad things are, will
be on their side, and Cassian thinks they can wait. Yeah,

(23:40):
it's it's Luthan who's like, no, no, no, there's one
way out, right, you know, back going back to season one,
there's one way out.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Before we talk about the Sagerera stuff at the end,
I do want to point out how wonderful it was
to see Cyril Karn in the ISB control room where
he remarks that this is the greatest day of his life.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Oh god, it's like Libby finally getting to spy.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
And part of Guys even makes that great that great
comment where he's directly talking about the Gorman Front and
he's like, yeah, there's a lot of people who think
they understand shit better than they do because they're new
to it. But he's also he's clearly talking to Cyril
like you don't know what you're doing, but I'll use you.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Fine. It's so good.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Cyril gains cred amongst the Gorman Front when they find
out that his background is that he lost his job
because the ISP found out how badly he fucked up
Ferricks Like They're like, ah, I see, Cyril must have
good reason to hate the Empire because of that. You're like, No,
he's like fuckers, He's desperately trying to like become some
like ISP secret agent. Yeah, Like he just wants approval

(24:49):
from like the daddy state, like.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
And from his girlfriend right and has taken over for
his mom in being like the primary source the person
he's trying to impress.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
The last thing I want to talk about in this
episode is this episode displays like two different types of
drug use. Yes, we have Bix who's trying to get
over the immense amount of fucked up stuff that's happened
to her by taking space XENX if you will.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
She's barred out every night holding a gun watching TV
and yeah, and it's like who amongst us? It is
disrupting her personal life.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
It's also disrupting her like operational capacity.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
She has been sent out in the recent past and
she can't be sent back out again. And the specific
we don't even see the mission that most recently fucked
her up, but we're through her nightmares were lid to
in first she and Cassie and captured an Imperial pilot
and Cassian killed the guy because he'd seen her face,
and she's, in addition to having been tortured in season one,

(25:47):
fucked up because like we didn't need to kill him,
and Cassiean's like, yeah we did, Like he saw your face.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
The weight of Resistance is really getting to Bix. Yeah,
and like Luthen comes over to like check on her
and also like see if she's able to like work
and see if she can like appraise some like weapons
or something, and he realizes like she is not like
well enough to work at this point, yeah, and becomes
like getting worried for her and like like try to
like plead with her, like you have to you have

(26:16):
to make sure that you like stay healthy. I don't know,
it's it's it's definitely it's it's definitely hard to watch.
I think this is definitely like this moment. It's like,
I don't Bix has always had a lot of agency
taken away from her, Like we see this like in
season one, and we see this kind of now and
I definitely would like to would like to see her
get put back in like the driver's seat of her
own life at a certain point. But like like like

(26:37):
living through like PTSD and living through like these types
of like you know, political movements does does like destroy
people and like this does happen.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Well, and just what torture does, right, Like, Yeah, torture
breaks people, that's its purpose, you know.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
So we have space n X and then we have Salgerera.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, we fucking do.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
So let's I want to talk a little bit about
his background, some stuff that's not in the show. And
the show you see him when when he is already
basically the hardest son of a bitch in the rebellion. Right,
he is the only leader of a rebel faction that
Luthen treats as an equal right where like Luthan is
meeting with him, we see Luthan meeting with him directly.
Luthen is not willing to sacrifice he and his men

(27:15):
in like in order to maintain the cover of a spy,
which he.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Is serious militants.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, they are serious and there and every time we
see them, there's more of them and they have more ships.
They're the first ones, they're the first rebels.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
To use X quest ones, X wings.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, and Saws background and you have this is way
a bunch of the expanded stuff. But he's he started
out as essentially a local rebel on this planet during
the Clone Wars that was not aligned between either major faction,
but basically the Jedi, taking the role of Space Cia,
armed him and his sister to lead like a rebel

(27:51):
group against the other power they were fighting in the Clone.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
Wars occupation, like separatist forces.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
He was meant to be Mujahideen coded right initially, right,
So he's like a space musja Hideen who's armed by
the Space Cia, who are the Jedi y and then
when the Republic ends, he immediately starts fighting the Empire.
And one of the kind of like moments that Form
saw is his sister dies in the in the process
of this failed attempt to gain independence for their homeworld,

(28:17):
this place called Hoduron.

Speaker 6 (28:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
You don't need to know any of that to perfectly
get and enjoy his character in these shows. But the
moment that we're talked about to talk about means more
if you understand his backstory with his sister, right.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah, and he's been doing this ever since he was
like a kid, like.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yes, and yet this has been his whole life, right,
I think he's supposed to be like forty six when
he dies in Rogue one.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
Hard forty six.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
If you look at him, you know, he looks clearly older,
but also he looks like, well, yeah, he's been fighting
his entire life. That age is a teenager and he
has this. So the first thing that he does is
he executes this guy who was set up as his friend.
When it becomes clear that that guy was a spy
and it's insinuated, he than it's a spy for the Empire.
That guy might have been a spy for Lutheren or

(29:03):
someone else. We don't actually know.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Sure, we know he was sending info to someone he
was transmitting. Yeah, saw things that they were going to
set up like an ambush at their next mission. Yeah,
And instead they evacuate their base.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
And Saw blasts him and basically says, hey, to the kid,
your mind now, and we're going to go steal this
fucking fuel. Yeah. So the next time we see them,
they've they've busted onto this Imperial fuel lot and they're
fueling up their ships and while the kid is like
working out to set this thing up to allow them
to take the ribo, which is the rum Riydonium rhydo sorry,

(29:38):
the starship fuel. While the kid is like doing this
job that we've been told if you don't do it perfectly,
it kills you and everyone around. You saw his monologuing
and he's talking about his childhood where he was like,
I was a child slave, you know, forced to labor
in these rhido mines, right, and one day there was
a gas leak and all everyone ran and you know

(29:58):
this stuff, it was so bad out there. The old
people would die and you'd come back the next day
and the jungle was so thick they'd been eaten down
to bones and want everybody has to flee because of
this leak. But I don't run away because, like I'm
huffing this gas, I get high and I like realize
for the first time I'm alive, you know. He has
this like yeah, this moment. And then when the kid
figures out how to get the fuel hooked up, Saw

(30:20):
immediately leans in and starts huffing what is effectively gasoline
and going and the kid's like what the fuck. The
kid who's wearing gas mask, who's like wearing a gasp
is like, what are you doing, and he's like, she's
my sister, right, Oh, she's my sister and she loves me.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
I want to read it here. I have this back
of the monologu quote. Yeah, you feel how badly she
wants to explode. Yeah, remember this moment. You think I'm crazy? Yes,
I am. Revolution is not for the saane. Look at us, unloved,
hunted cannon fodder. Will all be dead before the Republic
is back. And yet here we are. Where are you, boy?

Speaker 3 (30:56):
You're here.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
You're not with Luthin, You're here. You're right here, and
you're ready to fight. We're the rido kid, We're the fuel.
We're the thing that explodes when there's too much friction
in the air. Let it in, boy, that's freedom calling
Let it in, Let it run, let it run wild.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
And he is just for one thing.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
The kid is choking on the on the fumes, is.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Nearly dying from the gas fumes that clearly saw as
barely affected by anymore. Right, it's again this thing I
love that they do in terms of they're calling back
to the older lore when he calls this his sister. Yeah,
but you don't need to know that his sister died
to get this moment. It just makes it adds an
extra layer of meaning if you're a nerd for the lore,
which I appreciate a lot. And it also sets up

(31:40):
in Rogue one when we see Saw Near Death he's
huff he's on he's on the oxygen. He's well, I
think he's on O two because he's destroyed his lung suffing.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
He's having this now, this is this is what he's
hughing that it has been like like like RETCONND.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Confirmed it wasn't oxygen.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Okay, yes, bo the writer, yeah, old Tony Gilroy and said, hey,
what if we have him huff and fumes and they
went for it.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well yeah, but I but I think that was to
try to explain because because Tony said he didn't know
why Saul was on oxygen when yeah put it in
Rogue one, and so they came to explain it. But
I think he's on oxygen because I.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
Think it's been reckon to being that he's just huffing rising.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
I saw it in an article. You yeah, so either way,
we'll see, we'll see. I could be wrong. I was
wrong last because of one thing. I miscredited the quote
about about the empire's grip tightening and systems falling through
because the theory twinks British actor has a has an
accent very similar to the one Carry Fisher poorly tries
to imitate in a New Hope where she says that

(32:43):
line so sorry, George, Sorry George, that was your line.
Good line. The theory twink just has some very similar ones.
So I got confused accountability.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Wow, mean to Carry Fisher Garrison.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Everyone knows her accent's been in that movie.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
We all know it.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I fucking of this speech by Oh.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Yeah, this is the most Robert thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, it's perfect. It's perfect. Everything about it makes me
so happy. Bo Willman continues to be like maybe the
best monologuest writing for TV right now. It's just such
a raw scene and it explains both like why Saw
is still around, because he's the most paranoid, crazy son
of a bitch there is and because he unlike everyone

(33:25):
else and unlike the Gorman's, unlike even Cassie, and he's
the only guy who understands what Luthan understands, which is
that like totally, we're not here to see the other
side of this now we're here to catch on fire,
you know, like that's the.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Whole thing, and hopefully that fire will grow.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, and yeah, if that means we get burned up
in the process, that is that's how it be. Yeah,
if the fire will burn very brightly. Yes, all right,
let's go and break and then come back to discus
the final episode in this arc. Okay, we are back.

(34:03):
And Or Season two, episode six, What a festive evening.
Luthen sends Mon Mathma's cousin Val to re establish relations
with the Gorman front after Cassian's icy reception. Cassian and
Bis reunite on Corrossant, but then Cassian shows up at
Luthen's shop to confront him about checking in on Bis
at the safe house while and Or was on mission.

(34:24):
In a possibly like OPSEC irresponsible huge.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
OPSEC fuck huge ox Casian Andor's face is known.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
Yeah, not good. This is like the Cassian's emotions getting
the better of him here. Senator man Mathma and her
husband Paren attend a party of the Empire's elite, where
she debates Krenik on imperial cruelty and the mindset of
a rebel underdog. Meanwhile, Claya uses their undercover ice b
agent to help remove a listening device hidden in the
Price collection of artifacts. Vell reunites with Sinta as they

(34:55):
helped to lead the Gorman Front's first attack, stealing imperial
weapons on a cargo transport. At first, things go according
to plan. Cyril watches from a distance and reports to
Iceby headquarters.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
We should note ahead of this that during the meeting
where they had about this, one point that they had
made is none of you have guns. None of you
carry guns on this Me and her are the only
people with blasters. You don't need them, you're not competent
to use them.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
So, near the end of this operation, a civilian confronts
the rebels, but what they're doing and in the struggle,
Sinta is accidentally shot and killed by one of the
members of the Gorman Front, a guy named Sam with
two ms. I love Star Wars. This episode ends with
Bix and Cassian going on a mission to kill the
Imperial interrogation expert doctor Gorst, which they succeed and then

(35:43):
walk away heroically from the explosion, similar to.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Kill him by torturing him the way he tortured her.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yeah, and then then they love the building and they
play the music que from the very first arc, Yeah,
the very first season where Cassian is walking away with
that fast drum beat. So this episode has so much
about like like relationships complicating political activity.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Right.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
We have we have and orn bicks. We have the
lesbians of Valen Senta killed lesbian. They did kill your lesbian.
We'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk about a second.
They also have They also have Cyril and Dedra. We
have like like a lot of a lot of like
how relationships and politics like function, how where there's friction,
when things can go well, with things can go bad.

(36:29):
Let's talk I guess a little bit of about this
party where where where uh Luthen talks with Cretic very
very briefly and at the end, I mean this is
this is a very effective scene where they like build
tension with Clay trying to remove this bug while critics
like in the room seeing seeing these other artifacts and

(36:50):
it's like debating Mond. But when when Luthen and Claya
leave they jokingly remark, oh, good man, we should have
killed critic when we were up there, and they laugh
and you're like, yeah, you know, you guys should have that's.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
You really should have killed critic.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
You really should have killed critic. It would have bummed
things up. But then the Death Star may not have
been completed. Yeah, and this whole thing would have gone differently.
Although you know, you know, in a way, the death
sto Operation does lead to the Ball of the Empire
in like a paradox way.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
To be fair, they don't know exists some.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Business, but he's like he's like a super high up guy. Yes,
and man, yeah, that is tough. That's that's a tough scene.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
It's a tough's Also what's interesting is that it's a
tough scene in light of the rest of the lore.
It's a really nice because they've been fighting, bickering for
this whole cycle of episodes and like you're, yeah, things
are breaking down, and this is a moment where like
they get back on the same page and you're like.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Tension eases, Yeah, because part of it, because like part
of what's going on here is like Lousen is losing it, right,
and this is the thing because like he's he's struggling
to the part and like, yeah, everyone's fucking seen this, Like, yeah,
your friend is jruggling fifteen products at once. They're losing
their goddamn minds and then like the girl in your
group was on top of it has to just slap
them and be like locked the fuck in.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Yeah, Nola is a scary monster. She is on it.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Well, it's made really clear in these cycles. She is
not his subordinates.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Oh no.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
They are handling very different parts of the operation, but
she is not working under him. No, and she is
like the one who like is the reason any of
the shit works. Absolutely, And it's like that's the thing
you see very often. There's a line in the season
one where things are looking bad for them and he
specifically asks her is your go bag ready? And he
doesn't check his own, so he I think he understands

(38:37):
if one of us has to get out, it should
be you.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
She has to survive, yeah, utally yeah, and I think
that is that is where things are going to are
going to be moving.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
I mean when when Cassie's coming back from Gorman, like
Luthen picks him up and they start like arguing over
like is the Gorman front like a real thing to
like spend effort and like time on Like they're kind
of all like like green, they don't really have good
op sect they're not. They're just not like ready yet. Yeah,
and and and Luthen pushes back and says to Cassie
and like you're thinking small, you're thinking like a thief.

(39:06):
And cassiean robuts like, no, I'm thinking like a soldier.
And you have to think like a leader. You have
to actually and like from Luten's point of view, a
leader is like a very like manipulative role and like
like you you have to start using these guys as
pawns for this like larger game, because the empire is
bigger than just Gorman. The Empire is bigger than us.

(39:26):
We have to think bigger. You can't just you can't
just think like a you know, a small illegalist who's
gonna steal your food and not pay for parking and
and just like get by while still doing crying. But
like you know, try to like outsmart the empires like no,
like we we are, we are, we are beyond that.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
We ain't robbing banks anymore.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Yeah, exactly right, like we are beyond the illegalist like
point of view. We have to start thinking like much more,
much more like strategically and with like the bigger picture
in mind, because like we are we are slowly getting
closer to the Battle of Yavn here, Yeah, and I
find I find their little argument they're really really interesting.
And then their secondary meet up where where Cassian's mad

(40:07):
about Luthen checking in on bicks and I think, like
I can understand both their point of view here is this.
I think this is still a big fuck up from Cassian,
but it's like it makes sense, but like, yeah, the
relationship is getting like the better of him on like
a strategic standpoint, like yet at this at this plot point,
and Luthen still trusts them though, Like Luthen still gives
them the assignment to kill doctor Gorst, so like Luthen

(40:28):
still is able to work with these people, and he's
still actually like oddly enough, like prioritizes empathy and like
he says like like like empathy, like you can you
cannot have a you cannot have a revolution without empathy.
That's what this is built on. And and and even
though he's a bit of a hard ass sometimes he
still does like trust.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Them, yeah, yeah, but he's he also is deliberately fucking
with him like one of these Yeah, totally, he's very minific,
Like he like he's like he's being unbelievaignaive like like
one of the things here is like he deliberately gives
Bis tells Bigs about this assignment that he was going
to give her and then doesn't specifically just see if
she would tell Andrew about it. And that's how Andrew
would react to that, which is like, don't do that.

(41:05):
That's unhinged, Like that's like not And this is like
also part of like, you know, the thing you have
to like balance youre right is like you know, you
have to be able to balance like getting people to
do things that need to be done with like not
being a fucking asshole and alienating everyone. And this is
like a and especially when you yourself, because like Luthor

(41:26):
is also falling apart.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
And he's not going to change. He's not he's never
gonna change.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
He's not changing, but.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
He's like he's like the thing though, that's not his job, right,
His job was to make the later stages of this
where people act differently inevitable totally, and he understands that
you need something that horrifies people to do that, right, like,
and that's that's all he's trying to set up Luth.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
It is absolutely like a moral very manipulative I am.
I am still I'm still teaming even though he like
sucks as a dude, like I would hate to work
with him. Well, it's like like I still gotta the team.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
Luthen in the yet Yeah, well I would just say
like like if the thing is like, if you try
to act like this in like an actual organizing space,
this isn't gonna work.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
You're just gonna.

Speaker 7 (42:12):
Put organization's not doing that, right, That's that's what I'm
saying though, right right, Like like this this works because
of the exact specific thing that he's doing, which is he.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Is the guy who is coordinating a bunch of networks.
The thing is, in order for networks to hold together
and work, people have to have relationships with each other.
And if you behave like this in that situation, it
will funck out everything. And this is like the conflict
that's happening, like even inside of his own limited network
is that like he's he is like fucking with everyone.
And we'll get to that with the lesbian.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You see you see how you see the different levels
at which networks work. Here, like the Gorman Front works
because they're all friends and neighbors who care about each other, right,
and that's why they are like real, tactile, solid, and
they're able to stick together even though they're not. They
don't have perfect competence. We see Saws group where someone

(43:04):
made the comment that like, well, he's basically a fascist
and because of like the hold, he has a nice group,
which is not what I saw at all. I saw
as soon as he shoots.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
A spy, he has but he's not a fashion.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
He has to prove to the rest of his group
that guy was a spy and needed to die. And
once he does, they're like, all right, well back to
the job, right, I mean yeah, But and he gets
he has to get fucked you know, he gets fucked
up as part of like the just the necessity of
it's it's literally the only thing he has in between
acts of terrifying violence. But that's how that group bands together.

(43:37):
And then we see, you know, these smaller cells of experts,
right who they have their connections with each other and
they have their little moments of vengeance and that's what
keeps them going. And the only thing that keeps Luthen
going is the pure logic of the calculus of what
he's put together. That's all he's got.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, information collecting boyfriend, always collecting information. All right, let's
talk about the space lesbians who are running the French Resistance.
So I liked. I liked a lot of what they
did with them in this episode. I liked how they
were like reuniting. I liked the way they talked about
the on again, off again style of their relationship based

(44:18):
on like having to live in this rebellion like life,
like they can't always see each other, they're always being
moved around by Luthen. But they both specifically took this
assignment like hoping and like and I think like knowing
that it would mean that they could see each other.
So I liked the development that we had with them
as people who like your are like in the same spaces,
but do not have the luxury of actually having like

(44:39):
a life together at this point in time. They advised
the little resistance group there, they're much more friendly than
than Cassie and is.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Oh, well they do come in or like all right,
you motherfuckers like you people are amateur yes, oh yeah,
yeah yeah, no fucking guns.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, it's like no, Like, I guess they have more
of a willingness to put up with the amateurs than
Cassie does. I think, I think is kind of what's
going on there. And you know, they're they're hoping that
after this mission's over, maybe they'll be able to spend
more time together. And then Cinta does get killed. And
I've seen a lot of criticism of this. I've seen

(45:18):
people invoking like a like a like a barrier gaze
type crope, and I don't think that's my personal outlook
on what's going on here. I think a lot of
people die throughout this show. We had Brasso die, and
this sort of thing like just happens.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
That's that's the point is, Yes, she's really good, she's
really good, she's incredibly it.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
Feels so like purposeless and like welcome to war. I
think that is part of the problem, part of the point.
And like the upset like a reaction that you have
I think is like that's that's showing I think the
strength of the strength of this, Like it sucks to
see a lesbian get killed, but I think we're seeing
so many relationships get like fall apart. We're seeing a
lot of people get killed.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Brasso didn't die, if for any better reason, right, this
is just how war works.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
No, I mean I think I think the reason and
this isn't It has been an interesting part of this.
I talked to me about this last episode was like,
this is the most like, this is by far the
most like gay Star Wars we've ever had, right, and
it's the most like I'm trying to think of the
number of other shows the.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Only time they didn't lean away from it or insinuate it.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah, no, like well just kissing this episode. It's like
I'm legitimately like I'm like racking my brain. I'm trying
to think of like the number of like major TV
shows I have ever seen in my life run non
white lesbian gets to kiss someone. It's like not that high,
And I think that's why people just like, yeah, like
this is this is this is an this is the
best representation of my culture, which is like the leftist
lesbian Yeah, you're gonna see each other I've ever seen

(46:42):
and then it's like, yeah, she fucking dies. It's it hurts.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
I think like we were able to watch these characters
develop over the course of like a few arcs, right,
Like we saw these in the Aldanni Heist, where they
were like basically the only two people to survive besides
casting and like everyone else on that ant heist died, right, Yeah,
so they the lesbian's made it out of that. They
they struggle to maintain their relationship in the interim as

(47:04):
as things happened. They had this emotional reunion here. I think,
you know, you could you could make an argument maybe
you'd be better to kill Val. But we've had more
development with Voal because of being related to mon So, Like, yeah,
it is, it is, it is. It is tough with
like the disposability, but that is that is that that
is a part of us fighting in an environment like this.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, it's not that they're disposable, it's that combat is random,
like and fuck ups are random, like this this exact thing.
Somebody screws up and shoots when they're not supposed to,
and the bullet doesn't stop. Happens all the goddamn time,
and like it's part of what fucks people up. If
you talk to people about there who have war experiences,

(47:48):
one of the things that will fuck someone up the
most is watching someone they know and care about get
turned into pink mist. And it's usually a situation where
somebody hits or steps on or whatever an ied or
takes a rocket a bad time, and there's this person
that you knew and you care about and they're three
dimensional to you and you probably plan to keep knowing

(48:08):
them after that, and then they're just fucking missed and
it just it shatters people's minds and that's what happens.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
Like and then like yeah, vow's little like speech to
to Sam afterwards, being like like you are you now
have to live your entire life knowing that you took
this person away, and like every action you take for
the rest of your life is going to be like
it's gonna be all in all an attempt to like
make up for this, Like every every every imperial you
kill will just be one for Santa. Yeah, because like
the Cinta was like a professional. This is like the

(48:37):
life that she led, Like you will never be able
to understand how important she was. You'll never be able
to understand like how good she was at this and
you're like a fucking like French kid. Yeah, like you
don't know what you're doing, and now you have to
spend your entire life making up for it. And it
was a very hard speech, but I think Val did
a really good job with that and like understanding like
the political necessity of like you can't let this be
like in vain either, like you have to like push

(48:58):
back guy using him, making making his life like worthwhile. Now, yeah,
and I mean yeah, it's it was rough. I mean
I would love I would love more more like gay
characters living happy life in Star Wars, but we rarely
see anyone living a happy life in Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
This is not about happy lives.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
I also, that's not what we're seeing love.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
The thing that doesn't get a huge amount of attention
in these episodes but is interesting to me is the
guy that he was he pulled that Matt or whatever
his name was, Samama, the guy that Sama man told
his gun to try to stop. Is just this random
Gorman dude who's like, hey, no, I'm not gonna like leave,
this is like my city. What are you doing here?

Speaker 4 (49:34):
What's going?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Realized he carries her body like he goes with them,
you know, and we it's kind of unclear is he
likes some sort of spot or is he literally a
Gorman who it the whole time was looking for a
way to get involved, and once he realized what was happening.
He's like, yeah, these are my people. I'm with this.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Was that the guy from the meeting or was it
a different the one from the He wasn't he wasn't
the men?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah okay, yeah yeah yeah, so I guess he just
wasn't in the inner circle. But like he hops on,
you know.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Yeah, but no, I do understand like the racial disposability
and like the barrier gaze like aspect that could be
read into this. It's a tough thing to to thread here.
And I think if if you view this in context
of all of the people that we have seen like
get killed, like the entire Aldannie Crewe, like Brass so basically,

(50:23):
you know, the droid from season one gets like abandoned
on that planet, I think, like it does it does
make sense. I think in that larger context, I think
there's a way that not everyone like has to die
to lead to rogue one like besides Cassian, No, not everyone,
but but someone like Since and like frankly, like someone
like Santa, the type of militant she is, they do

(50:45):
have a short life span, like that is that is
part of the specific thing Sinta is doing is like
you burn fast, and you burn bright and sometimes you
will die in a way that's like really purposeless, and
that fucking sucks. And that happens in war, that happens
in like activist spaces, that happens that happens in the
United States with people here, and often they are like

(51:06):
non white gay people. Yep, Like that's what happened in Atlanta.
So like these these things happen.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
The number of people who committed suicide too after twenty twenty,
you know, like, yeah, do we.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Have anything else? You want to want to say me?
Do do you have anything? When I close out on as
the resident non white lesbian on the podcast, they killed
by lesbian. So it's sad.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
There aren't What.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Is the next time I'm getting a non white lesbian
in Star Wars is gonna work? Like I Am going
to be right, like raising a black flag over Shensend.
But the next time we get another one of.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
These characters of the series, you know, we had we
we had a non white lesbian uh in acolyte who
also taught it. Yeah, yeah, I do not see people
talking about the barrier gay stuff with the acolyte as well.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Nobody because.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Because it wasn't bad, but I think it's.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Also worth I think it's also worth remembering like like
this is this is a show starring like a non
white leading role, like like a Cassine is not white.
So I think the racial politics are a little bit
a little bit more more complex. I think some people
are discussing.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
But yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Well these episodes have been amazing. Everybody get into inhalance
and steal fuel from the military. That's the message of
andand or.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
Run wild.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Don't do that. That's a joke.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Legally, Okay, It could Happen Here is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us
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listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it
could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.