August 29, 2024 • 31 mins
James talks to Dr. Singh about the recent assassinations and attempted assassinations of Sikh independence activists by the Indian government.
Some resources mentioned in the episode:
Askindiawhy.com
Khalistan.org
@FREE5AB on social media platforms
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James
today and I'm joined by doctor Sink. Doctor Sink's an
educator based in California, and we're talking today about the
recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now
years long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate sick
activists in the United States and in Canada and probably
(00:26):
not the places too. Welcome to the show, dot to Sink.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
All right, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, you're welcome. And so I think people listening to
this for the first time might not be super familiar
with the situation in India and also like what Kalistan
is and what that means. So I want to get
into both of those things to start with. I think
could you maybe explain Kalastan, Explain where it means. Maybe
people have seen this yellow and green flag or heard
(00:52):
the word, but they might not know what it means.
So could you break that down for us?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Sure? Sure.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
So Krlaistan is essentially freedom of liberation moment that starts
in Punjab. So it's north of India, and Punjab is
a region that is populated primarily of six, though the
population numbers are changing, and so Kalistan is essentially sovereignty freedom,
(01:16):
it's its own homeland, so it's labeled as the sick homeland.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
However, there will be many.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Different ethnicities, many different people of religious backgrounds in Kadalaistan,
so it is.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
An ongoing movement.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The Indian state of course, it's not in their best
interest to lose a chunk of land, and to lose
especially a prosperous chunk of land, so they're doing everything
in their power to silence those that speak about it,
to oppress the people there so that they don't have
enough willpower to fight back. So that's a very very
brief introduction to it.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so let's zoom out a little bit and talk
about the history of sick people in India and then
the recent tendency with mody to to sort of define
Hinduism and Indianism as the same thing. And you can't
be one without being the other. So maybe we can
start with that history of sick people within India. We
can pick it up like I guess wherever you want.
You can start in nineteen thirties, or we can start
(02:10):
a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Well, actually, I think it's important to start even earlier
than that. The origins of Six are in the region.
Our faith was started in fourteen sixty nine activity, which
is in now the Pakistan region, So that's where our
faith was started, and our people have essentially been fighting
(02:32):
an existential battle since the faith was formed. So different
rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area would
attempt to kind of wipe Six out, and Six have
always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. So
a small example of this is in seventeen thirty eight
and up until the seventeen seventies, there was mass laughter
(02:56):
of six and we're talking thousands killed on a single
day period we referred as.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
The Vudine shot dot Lugata, which is.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Basically in our history, the largest population of six decimated
in a single day was in seventeen thirty eight.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
In seventeen seventies.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
As well, so we went from that circumstance to essentially
forming our own kingdom, forming our own country. In seventeen
ninety nine was formally established under Maha Dad Djid Singh,
though the Six were operating independently even before that and
kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Governing their own regions.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But in seventeen ninety nine, the Sick Confederacy kind of
joined and became what is now known as the region
of Punjab.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So the British came to colonize.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
They colonized India relatively quickly after arriving, and then when
they approached the Sikh Kingdom, not only could they not
penetrate it, they had to sign a treaty with Mahaja
d Jid Singh, who was the ruler of Punjab at
the time, and saying that we won't cross to the
side of this river and you don't cross to the
sub So they essentially signed a treaty saying we can coexist,
but we won't come to your side because they feared
(04:03):
the repercussions of what that would lead to. And then slowly,
as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated.
They paid folks, they sign traders, and they broke down
the annexed Punjab in eighteen forty nine. So we have
a period of colonization from eighteen forty nine officially till
(04:27):
nineteen forty seven. And in nineteen forty seven the Radcliffe
Line is drawn. That is where Pakistan and now what
we see as Pakistan and now India is what we
see as India, though before it was all together and
a large region of it was Punjab. When nineteen forty
seven what Indian would refer to as independence, though it
(04:47):
was actually a transfer of power.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
The gandhis of the time are kind of credited with.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
The independence movement, but they were working with the British
for decades before that. They kind of knew that they
would receive the reins once the British left the region,
so truly it wasn't independence movement, it was a transfer
of power from the British to them. So in nineteen
forty seven, by creating kind of relationships through some false promises,
(05:13):
the Hindu leaders of the time essentially guaranteed six that
you guys know how to fight for your rights if
we were ever to infringe upon them. You guys are
allowed to be in the Punjab region, it's essentially going
to be autonomous.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So after independence, essentially.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
They immediately renagged on all of their previous assurances and
six have essentially kind of been fighting an independence movement
since nineteen forty seven. They were not allowed to speak
their language. There was a Punjabi suba movement in nineteen
fifty five where they even had to fight for their
native language to be able to speak their native language
(05:51):
in their region. And so now moving many iterations later,
what we see is Modi kind of the I wouldn't
say final form because we haven't lived to the end yet,
but he is the latest iteration of Hindu nationalism, of
what extremism looks like. So he has now taken the
(06:13):
work of the gandhis and all of the prime ministers
of India and kind of the Indian deep state agenda
and now transformed it to saying that we want to
be a nation of one language, of one religion, of
one kind of people, and there's really no space for
minorities in there, though they won't say it openly because
they want to carry the moniker of the world's biggest democracy.
(06:34):
They are not a secular nation. And under Modi, we've
seen massacres. We've seen you very genocidal violence, which he
himself allowed and which he was not even allowed to
go into many Western countries because they held him accountable
and responsible for leading the massacre of Muslims in two
thousand and two of a job. But once he became
(06:56):
prime minister, they kind of backed away from that and
chose financial relationships. So today we are in a place
where six being less than two percent of the population
in India are continuing their struggle for liberation, and the
Indian state kind of consistent with their agenda since nineteen
(07:17):
forty seven, doesn't have room for that difference, doesn't have
room not only to give them their rights, but liberation entirely.
That's the next step beyond that. So that's where we
are today.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, there's a significant sick community, especially on the west
coast of the USA, and I've met probably hundreds of
sick people in the last year crossing the border for
the reasons you've just outlined and others of course deciding
they nearly all coming from India, right, and Punjab, and
they have told me some really terrible stories, right, some
(07:50):
really upsetting things. I've heard from lots of other people.
It's not unique to them, but there's a significant sick
population on the west coast of the US. So can
you explain I know that sick people here have been
organizing for Kalustan for some time. There was even like
a vote recently ventstand correctly, So can you explain, like
(08:10):
that history of the sick dy aspirin how they've been
really important in getting the word out and advocating.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
First, yeah, I'm glad we touched on migration. Actually, mass
migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It
is the outcome of very genocidal violence yea. And further
than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways.
So one example is there's a strong drug nexus in
(08:36):
that area and anyone who is distributing drugs is protected
by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their
agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and
away from liberation, So that is one.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Further, Bungjob for the listeners, Bunge ob means the land
of five rivers. Bunge means five and ob means water,
so its name is literally created on river water and
the Indian state has now taken those river waters diverted
them to different states of India, and Punjab gets no
(09:12):
royalty for those as opposed to any other state of India.
If they have a natural resource, they get to sell
it and their state gets the benefit of that. So
Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons
of water to different states for free, and Punjab is
there's different numbers out there, but sixty to sixty five
percent and agrarian society, so everyone is essentially farming. And
(09:37):
what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do
is dig underground for water, even though they have natural
river water that should be going through Punjab itself, which
they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem
happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out
of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind
(09:59):
of a debt and business as opposed to farming and
many other places, so it's very profitable. They're sick farmers
in California who are multi multimillionaires, so it's not an
unprofitable business.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
However, the state has made it that way.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Understanding that if we can cripple farming their water supply
and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll
be forced.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So the mass migration we see is not natural. It
is the outcome of that.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
And I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second part
of your question, something about six in the Western.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, no, that's Okay, there's a really good explanation. It's
really important. I think we should just take a little
advertising break here, all right, we're back.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So the second part I wanted to ask about was
the importance of this diaspora community in organizing FA Kalistan.
Right because in addition to all these Indian government policies
that you've outlined that are having these impacts in Punjab,
and like we shouldn't discount the climate change is also
having impacts there right, absolutely across the whole engeged subcontinent.
But in addition to that, right, there's a very powerful
(11:12):
and developed Khalistan movement in the United States and in
Canada that has been advocating for the issue and raising
i think awareness, and that's what's been targeted now, right.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, absolutely, because they understand that if you say that
word Carlostan with in Punjab, the police is working with them,
the judicial system is working with them, Every single facet
of any organizational institution is working for them. So, I
mean there's been many people that do mention it and
they end up dead, they end up in jails, They
(11:45):
you know, are silenced in one way or another. So
despite that, though, still many more folks that believe in
Colistan in Punjab than there are anywhere else in the world,
and they are willing to say it openly despite the
consequence of that, which is essentially jail or death.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
In the millions. So what happens is when six are
a forced to migrate out or migrate out for any reason.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
They still hold those aspirations with them. They still remember
the plight of their people in Pajab. So they have
freedom of speech, which is what you should have in democracies,
which they don't have in India. So when they have
freedom of speech, they express those aspirations to the point where.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
There are people being killed all over the world.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
We named Canada and the US, but there was an
activist poisoned in the UK just last year. There's been
folks killed in Pakistan, which is on the other side
of the border for India. And they tried to assassinate
sick in New York and as recently as a few
days ago, they tried to assassinate us.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Sick here in California.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
So, I mean, the movement is very much alive and
it's on the up, and I think the Indian state
understands this. But they're having a tough time kind of
wrapping their head around how to.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Silence folks outside of their borders.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's really where we are because within their borders it's
full on suppression.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You can't say it. Folks within Pujab.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
When they leave Punjab and they come to different countries,
their eyes kind of finally open as to why they
were in the conditions they were in. It's almost like
when you're in the middle of a storm. You don't
know who you're in a storm, but when looking on
the outside in you're seeing, hey, this is a very
intentional and systematic genocide that is happening against our people.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that is one aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But it's becoming more organized, and you know, there's a referendum,
there's intellectuals, there's conferences happening, there's grats roots organization and
so ficks have the concept.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Called Chardvikala and Chaddikaala.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Is essentially ever rising spirits, is that no matter that
higher conditions that you may be under, you still keep
the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. And we've seen
that in our history where our population due to the
oppression and the massacres dwindled down to the hundreds, and
(14:15):
they were living in jungles, and even then they would
exit the jungles fight work to free those being captured
by the muguls at the time, or the people in
the region, and they would die fighting oftentimes. And so
now we're in a position where there's millions of us.
We have no excuse. We keep the aspiration for sovereignty alive,
(14:38):
and we see it kind of thriving in places where
we're allowed to express ourselves.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, so I think we should talk about this kind
of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique Twindia.
I mean, famously Russia loves to do this too, right,
But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was
a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right
that the YAH arrested in India national for There was
a successful assassination in Canada, and an attempted assassination just
(15:08):
this week, as you say, in northern California.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, I mean, transnational repression is not a new phenomenon.
But what we'd like to do is actually have it
addressed for what it is. Why is it that the
American public understands or the Western public understands that Russia doesn't,
but when it comes to India, it's almost seen as
this kind of yoga chai te, peace loving place, where
(15:35):
in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on
the other end of kind of oppression understands what India
truly is. So I think what we'd like to do
is I don't think it's unreasonable. This is a nation
that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations
(15:55):
land and targeting their citizens of any religious Backrondah. So
I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously.
And the fact that it continues to happen, I think
is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
If it was, you know, if there's you know, some
sort of public.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Statements, sanctions, if there was you know, a full on
effort to say that this is a violation of our sovereignty, yeah,
it would perhaps slow down, but it's continuing, and it's
continuing rapidly where we're seeing gunshots and you know, even
though Indian nationals are being extra added to the states,
it's not stopping. So I think more aggressive action is needed.
(16:37):
And the fact that it keeps happening. Is is just
a reflection of how lacks these governments have been as
a result of these actions.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms
of transnational oppression or really like by the US government
at least as this this consolidated program. It seems to
be seen as like these incidents where then you know,
joining the dots and being like, get this, this is
an attempt at repression, you know, murder of US citizens
in me that these two cases, right, I know this
(17:06):
just happened with other diaspora communities. Sometimes the like DJ
or someone within that has reached out to people in
the community, especially people who are prominent and been like,
there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you.
Has that happened within the sick community?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
There's been multiple folks warned here in California, in Canada,
all over the US that you know.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
There is legitimate threats to your life.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Though it's a problem because they cannot give you any
more information than that. So you ask, you know, where's
the threat from. Let say, we can disclose that it's
it's confidential. So obviously six who advocate for sovereignty and
freedom of their people that can Punjab know where where
the threat is from. Yeah, And I think the underlying
(17:55):
understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it
as well. They're essentially waiting for when it is politically
you know, acceptable, when it is politically beneficial for them
to actually say something about it. And I think we
are an under no illusions that you know that these
guys are going to speak for us for the sake
(18:15):
of justice, that they're going to you know, express our
perspective and condemn these nations based on the protection of six.
We know our liberation is going to be the result
of our efforts. But I think from a lobbying perspective,
from an expression perspective, I think it is not unreasonable
(18:37):
of us to.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Expect that of governments where we are citizens. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like it's kind of the trade that you make r
in theory, Like you give up a lot of freedom
and in turn you get safety in and you're giving
up one and not getting the other right now, right
right exactly. So, Like there have been various movements for Kaliftan,
(19:03):
I think we should just mention that, like in the
nineteen eighties, more like confrontational attempts at Kalistan like independence
were met with collective punishment by the Indian state and
non Sik people right within India.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So going dating back to the eighties, actually up until
eighty four, there was no united Movement for independence something
else he called up Prinda on It was kind of
the face of the thick rights movement. But in the
document that they had proposed to the government, the an
unput CYB resolution, it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six
(19:38):
And I think that's an important point to continue to mention,
is that the way the Indian state portrays Kalistan is
anti Hindu, and I think they understand that to get
the public support, we need to portray movements or anything
really that's not in our interest as anti Hindu. We
need to make them feel threatened. Yeah, and if we
(19:59):
can do that, there will be support for us to
engage in these collective punishments.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So in the eighties and nineties, actually we call.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
It the Decade of Disappearances, is where the Indian government
went from village to village disappearing six hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Essentially, our last generation was wiped out by the Indian state.
And you know, they disposed of.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Their bodies and crematories throw them in rivers, and you know,
like we basically say that there's a sixth river of
blood in Bujab because that is just how many young
men were killed from eighty five to.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Nineteen ninety five. So there was an armed resistance against this.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
I mean they were seeing their sisters taken into police
stations and all kinds of atrocities committed against them. They
were seeing their brothers disappeared, you know, their family members.
So at some point it is better to give up
your life than to live in these circumstances. And so
that is the brink that they were pushed to, and
(21:03):
so we lean on their example, though the movement does
not quite exactly at that same place today, we lean
on their example in that saying, these people were.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Willing to give up their lives for this.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Cause, and us sitting in comfort, even if it's you know,
temporary safety, we have a responsibility to move this movement forward.
And with these new assassinations, that's another important thing to mention.
We've saw murders of essentially the biggest Pujabi pops, Sadhu
(21:38):
Musah in history. I mean, this guy was in Hollywood,
he was, he was everywhere, and when he started talking
about Kadistan, when he started making music regarding Pajab's rights,
he was assassinated. And we're seeing a new wave of
Indian oppression. And for the first time now people that thought,
(22:00):
oh the eighties and nineties, you know, you guys could
be making something up. Maybe the Indian government is right,
you guys can be making up. Now they're seeing these
assassinations happen in front of their eyes, and they're making
the judgment call as to who is in the right
and who is in And I think that's another reason
that the Kalistan movement continues to gain kind of solidarity
(22:21):
within the six all over the world.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah. Sure, Like if if a government is trying to
assassinate people to just essentially saying something it disagrees with it,
it's not hard to see like who's in the wrong exactly.
So I wonder, like, obviously there's a genuine threat to
Sik communities here that continues to be a threat to
seek migrants from both political parties in the United States, right, Yeah,
(22:44):
I'm interested, but not hopeful to see how their asylum
claims go based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined,
and there's this threat to seek people in their homeland
in point job, how can people who are not sick,
who are not part of the community like be in solidary,
how can they support What can they do to, like
I guess yet, to stop people being murdered?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Well, it sounds cliche to say awareness, but at this
point in time, they're just enough people aware of you know,
how in danger they are, because if they don't speak
for six today, tomorrow it could be them. And if
the Western governments are allowing foreign nations to come in
(23:28):
and they have embassies in these countries, and they're allowing
these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens,
then what's to say that they won't be next tomorrow.
It's the age old saying there was no one left
to speak for me. That's part of it is you
have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this.
So I guess the first thing we'd like to see
is solidarity with that Aalestine. Now most folks have an
(23:53):
opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word
and they've seen six everywhere you know where the folks
that walk around with urbans, and we're one of the
probably ninety nine percent of people you see with turbans
on our six and so we're.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A very visible community.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
However, the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our
background is generally lacking. So I think the more that
we can understand who six are, what their beliefs are,
what they're fighting.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
For, why they're here to begin with, I think, you know, there.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Will be more political pressure regarding that, and I'm seeing
it starting to shift slightly, especially in the past five
to ten years. We've tipped the skills just slightly, but
we're far from from anywhere substantial.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I think for like, at least for my group
of friends, right, we go down to the border and
help people, and like we've encountered sick people because they
were always there with us helping us, right, Like some
sick folks flew down from other places and joined us
and stayed out there and helped us feed people. And like,
sick folks have shown up for other people substantially all
(25:02):
over the world. And I think it would be really
good to see people kind of reflect that that solidarity
that's kind of baked into the sick religion that it
would be nice to see people doing that in return,
absolutely as seeks organized to their own community safety. Like
obviously there's like a pressing danger to people, especially people
who are vocal a Sikhs organized to like take care
(25:26):
of one another in that sense.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
To some extent.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Yes, And again a part of organization and having support
that comes from that organization is having political power. And
six have political power in certain instances, but they do
not have a homeland or the resources to kind of
back it up. And you know, politics kind of lobbying
works with money. So the fact that we have these
(25:51):
immigration problems a is a result of India's efforts, but
be the reason that they don't have the support.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
They need is because don't have a homeland where they can.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Say, all right, these are our beliefs, these are our people.
We support our people, we will give them these resources
that they need. So we're kind of always operating at
a grassroots level. Yeah, and that's part of the issue
is why there's not grand or large scale change.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
But it continues to march forward.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
You know, as generations grow up, as they become more
involved in different facets.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
A lot of people, especially in the United states.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused
on surviving. How are we going to put food on
the table? Are were going to put a roof over
your head? And so the next generation kind of has
the opportunity to explore how.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
They can make a difference for their people. So Canada
is getting there, the UK is getting there, the US.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Is behind just because our migration here was later than
those places to that level.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But it's getting there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more
about like the sick religion or like sick people. That
good resources that you could suggest.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Absolutely, I think there's a very thorough background of what
Calliston is just on callist on dot org. Okay, so
kJ l I s t an dot org. They have publications,
they have documentaries. They've done a significant amount of work
to give the background of a Y six will never
stop fighting for freedom and be kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
What the circumstances are today.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
So they've they've done a fairly good job at that.
Other than that, there's pages on social media. There's free
five a B which stands for free puin job. It's
it's on Twitter, TikTok and of course TikTok.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Has deleted that page many times.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
So we're trying to figure out where the where the
alliances are there, and Instagram of course has done their
thing based on their alliances.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
But there are some.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Resources out there, and of course if you google it,
the first things that are going to come up is
Times of India.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, you know, in those.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Tun Times basically saying this is a terrorist movement that's
funded by foreign governments to break the unity integrity of India.
It's a very rudimentary explanation, basically rooted in violence and
how these people just have it out for us.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
But the reality is entirely different and the facts speak
to that.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
And I think the assassination attempts of today, the folks
that remain in Indian and jails today, there's a UK
citizen in Indian jail.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
There are you know, folks that are dying in Indian prisons.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
There's folks that have completed their sentences six thirty plus
years still sitting in Indian prisons. So all of the
circumstances today kind of speak to why this movement exists
and will continue to exist. So hopefully we can take
advantage of some of the resources out there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, that's great, and I hope people will go and
look educate themselves. You can look up Culsa AID as
well if you're interested in like the sort of sort
of diarity and support side of Sikhism. Those people have
been great at the border, and I know they've done
tons about the great humanitarian work as well.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Is there anything else that you'd like people to know
before we finish up here, like about six or about
college down things they can do to help.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I would like everyone to be open to the opportunity
that there are more people in the world that are
seeking to suppress and oppress than just what is told
by American media today. At least be open to the opportunity.
India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore,
and communities like the six who have experienced violent genocide
(29:47):
and today are experiencing the genocide. I think it's very
important to understand that the sick genocide never ended. It
continues today in different facets, in different forms. So that's
A and B the struggle for freedom and sovereignty, though
they want to put it on. So the Indian state
(30:08):
continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone. They
have enemity with Pakistan, so they try to say that
Kadistan is a movement to the byproduct of kind of
focused on the interference, even though the facts speak otherwise.
That if it's not Fakistan that killed hundreds of thousands
of six, it's not Fakistan that is assassinating six out
(30:30):
in these foreign countries. So they try to kill two
birds with one stone. India is definitely not a democracy.
I would like the viewers to be open to that
possibility as well and do.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Your own research.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Of course, I have a perspective based on the circumstances
that my people have been through, and I would hope
everyone can form a more thorough understanding and that there
is a lot more happening, especially in that region than
is politically correct to right now. So that's what I'll
(31:02):
finish with.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, that's great, Thank you very much for that. I
think that's a really good place to finish. Thank you
so much for your time, and yeah, I really appreciate
you explaining to that for us.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Of course, thank you for having me jail.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts and the cool Zone Media. Visit our
website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It could happen here, Updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James
today and I'm joined by doctor Sink. Doctor Sink's an
educator based in California, and we're talking today about the
recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now
years long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate sick
activists in the United States and in Canada and probably
(00:26):
not the places too. Welcome to the show, dot to Sink.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
All right, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, you're welcome. And so I think people listening to
this for the first time might not be super familiar
with the situation in India and also like what Kalistan
is and what that means. So I want to get
into both of those things to start with. I think
could you maybe explain Kalastan, Explain where it means. Maybe
people have seen this yellow and green flag or heard
(00:52):
the word, but they might not know what it means.
So could you break that down for us?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Sure? Sure.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
So Krlaistan is essentially freedom of liberation moment that starts
in Punjab. So it's north of India, and Punjab is
a region that is populated primarily of six, though the
population numbers are changing, and so Kalistan is essentially sovereignty freedom,
(01:16):
it's its own homeland, so it's labeled as the sick homeland.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
However, there will be many.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Different ethnicities, many different people of religious backgrounds in Kadalaistan,
so it is.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
An ongoing movement.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The Indian state of course, it's not in their best
interest to lose a chunk of land, and to lose
especially a prosperous chunk of land, so they're doing everything
in their power to silence those that speak about it,
to oppress the people there so that they don't have
enough willpower to fight back. So that's a very very
brief introduction to it.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, so let's zoom out a little bit and talk
about the history of sick people in India and then
the recent tendency with mody to to sort of define
Hinduism and Indianism as the same thing. And you can't
be one without being the other. So maybe we can
start with that history of sick people within India. We
can pick it up like I guess wherever you want.
You can start in nineteen thirties, or we can start
(02:10):
a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Well, actually, I think it's important to start even earlier
than that. The origins of Six are in the region.
Our faith was started in fourteen sixty nine activity, which
is in now the Pakistan region, So that's where our
faith was started, and our people have essentially been fighting
(02:32):
an existential battle since the faith was formed. So different
rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area would
attempt to kind of wipe Six out, and Six have
always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. So
a small example of this is in seventeen thirty eight
and up until the seventeen seventies, there was mass laughter
(02:56):
of six and we're talking thousands killed on a single
day period we referred as.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
The Vudine shot dot Lugata, which is.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Basically in our history, the largest population of six decimated
in a single day was in seventeen thirty eight.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
In seventeen seventies.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
As well, so we went from that circumstance to essentially
forming our own kingdom, forming our own country. In seventeen
ninety nine was formally established under Maha Dad Djid Singh,
though the Six were operating independently even before that and
kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Governing their own regions.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
But in seventeen ninety nine, the Sick Confederacy kind of
joined and became what is now known as the region
of Punjab.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So the British came to colonize.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
They colonized India relatively quickly after arriving, and then when
they approached the Sikh Kingdom, not only could they not
penetrate it, they had to sign a treaty with Mahaja
d Jid Singh, who was the ruler of Punjab at
the time, and saying that we won't cross to the
side of this river and you don't cross to the
sub So they essentially signed a treaty saying we can coexist,
but we won't come to your side because they feared
(04:03):
the repercussions of what that would lead to. And then slowly,
as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated.
They paid folks, they sign traders, and they broke down
the annexed Punjab in eighteen forty nine. So we have
a period of colonization from eighteen forty nine officially till
(04:27):
nineteen forty seven. And in nineteen forty seven the Radcliffe
Line is drawn. That is where Pakistan and now what
we see as Pakistan and now India is what we
see as India, though before it was all together and
a large region of it was Punjab. When nineteen forty
seven what Indian would refer to as independence, though it
(04:47):
was actually a transfer of power.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
The gandhis of the time are kind of credited with.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
The independence movement, but they were working with the British
for decades before that. They kind of knew that they
would receive the reins once the British left the region,
so truly it wasn't independence movement, it was a transfer
of power from the British to them. So in nineteen
forty seven, by creating kind of relationships through some false promises,
(05:13):
the Hindu leaders of the time essentially guaranteed six that
you guys know how to fight for your rights if
we were ever to infringe upon them. You guys are
allowed to be in the Punjab region, it's essentially going
to be autonomous.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
So after independence, essentially.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
They immediately renagged on all of their previous assurances and
six have essentially kind of been fighting an independence movement
since nineteen forty seven. They were not allowed to speak
their language. There was a Punjabi suba movement in nineteen
fifty five where they even had to fight for their
native language to be able to speak their native language
(05:51):
in their region. And so now moving many iterations later,
what we see is Modi kind of the I wouldn't
say final form because we haven't lived to the end yet,
but he is the latest iteration of Hindu nationalism, of
what extremism looks like. So he has now taken the
(06:13):
work of the gandhis and all of the prime ministers
of India and kind of the Indian deep state agenda
and now transformed it to saying that we want to
be a nation of one language, of one religion, of
one kind of people, and there's really no space for
minorities in there, though they won't say it openly because
they want to carry the moniker of the world's biggest democracy.
(06:34):
They are not a secular nation. And under Modi, we've
seen massacres. We've seen you very genocidal violence, which he
himself allowed and which he was not even allowed to
go into many Western countries because they held him accountable
and responsible for leading the massacre of Muslims in two
thousand and two of a job. But once he became
(06:56):
prime minister, they kind of backed away from that and
chose financial relationships. So today we are in a place
where six being less than two percent of the population
in India are continuing their struggle for liberation, and the
Indian state kind of consistent with their agenda since nineteen
(07:17):
forty seven, doesn't have room for that difference, doesn't have
room not only to give them their rights, but liberation entirely.
That's the next step beyond that. So that's where we
are today.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, there's a significant sick community, especially on the west
coast of the USA, and I've met probably hundreds of
sick people in the last year crossing the border for
the reasons you've just outlined and others of course deciding
they nearly all coming from India, right, and Punjab, and
they have told me some really terrible stories, right, some
(07:50):
really upsetting things. I've heard from lots of other people.
It's not unique to them, but there's a significant sick
population on the west coast of the US. So can
you explain I know that sick people here have been
organizing for Kalustan for some time. There was even like
a vote recently ventstand correctly, So can you explain, like
(08:10):
that history of the sick dy aspirin how they've been
really important in getting the word out and advocating.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
First, yeah, I'm glad we touched on migration. Actually, mass
migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It
is the outcome of very genocidal violence yea. And further
than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways.
So one example is there's a strong drug nexus in
(08:36):
that area and anyone who is distributing drugs is protected
by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their
agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and
away from liberation, So that is one.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Further, Bungjob for the listeners, Bunge ob means the land
of five rivers. Bunge means five and ob means water,
so its name is literally created on river water and
the Indian state has now taken those river waters diverted
them to different states of India, and Punjab gets no
(09:12):
royalty for those as opposed to any other state of India.
If they have a natural resource, they get to sell
it and their state gets the benefit of that. So
Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons
of water to different states for free, and Punjab is
there's different numbers out there, but sixty to sixty five
percent and agrarian society, so everyone is essentially farming. And
(09:37):
what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do
is dig underground for water, even though they have natural
river water that should be going through Punjab itself, which
they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem
happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out
of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind
(09:59):
of a debt and business as opposed to farming and
many other places, so it's very profitable. They're sick farmers
in California who are multi multimillionaires, so it's not an
unprofitable business.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
However, the state has made it that way.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Understanding that if we can cripple farming their water supply
and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll
be forced.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So the mass migration we see is not natural. It
is the outcome of that.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
And I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second part
of your question, something about six in the Western.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, no, that's Okay, there's a really good explanation. It's
really important. I think we should just take a little
advertising break here, all right, we're back.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So the second part I wanted to ask about was
the importance of this diaspora community in organizing FA Kalistan.
Right because in addition to all these Indian government policies
that you've outlined that are having these impacts in Punjab,
and like we shouldn't discount the climate change is also
having impacts there right, absolutely across the whole engeged subcontinent.
But in addition to that, right, there's a very powerful
(11:12):
and developed Khalistan movement in the United States and in
Canada that has been advocating for the issue and raising
i think awareness, and that's what's been targeted now, right.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, absolutely, because they understand that if you say that
word Carlostan with in Punjab, the police is working with them,
the judicial system is working with them, Every single facet
of any organizational institution is working for them. So, I
mean there's been many people that do mention it and
they end up dead, they end up in jails, They
(11:45):
you know, are silenced in one way or another. So
despite that, though, still many more folks that believe in
Colistan in Punjab than there are anywhere else in the world,
and they are willing to say it openly despite the
consequence of that, which is essentially jail or death.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
In the millions. So what happens is when six are
a forced to migrate out or migrate out for any reason.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
They still hold those aspirations with them. They still remember
the plight of their people in Pajab. So they have
freedom of speech, which is what you should have in democracies,
which they don't have in India. So when they have
freedom of speech, they express those aspirations to the point where.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
There are people being killed all over the world.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
We named Canada and the US, but there was an
activist poisoned in the UK just last year. There's been
folks killed in Pakistan, which is on the other side
of the border for India. And they tried to assassinate
sick in New York and as recently as a few
days ago, they tried to assassinate us.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Sick here in California.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
So, I mean, the movement is very much alive and
it's on the up, and I think the Indian state
understands this. But they're having a tough time kind of
wrapping their head around how to.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Silence folks outside of their borders.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's really where we are because within their borders it's
full on suppression.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You can't say it. Folks within Pujab.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
When they leave Punjab and they come to different countries,
their eyes kind of finally open as to why they
were in the conditions they were in. It's almost like
when you're in the middle of a storm. You don't
know who you're in a storm, but when looking on
the outside in you're seeing, hey, this is a very
intentional and systematic genocide that is happening against our people.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that is one aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
But it's becoming more organized, and you know, there's a referendum,
there's intellectuals, there's conferences happening, there's grats roots organization and
so ficks have the concept.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Called Chardvikala and Chaddikaala.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Is essentially ever rising spirits, is that no matter that
higher conditions that you may be under, you still keep
the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. And we've seen
that in our history where our population due to the
oppression and the massacres dwindled down to the hundreds, and
(14:15):
they were living in jungles, and even then they would
exit the jungles fight work to free those being captured
by the muguls at the time, or the people in
the region, and they would die fighting oftentimes. And so
now we're in a position where there's millions of us.
We have no excuse. We keep the aspiration for sovereignty alive,
(14:38):
and we see it kind of thriving in places where
we're allowed to express ourselves.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, so I think we should talk about this kind
of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique Twindia.
I mean, famously Russia loves to do this too, right,
But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was
a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right
that the YAH arrested in India national for There was
a successful assassination in Canada, and an attempted assassination just
(15:08):
this week, as you say, in northern California.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, I mean, transnational repression is not a new phenomenon.
But what we'd like to do is actually have it
addressed for what it is. Why is it that the
American public understands or the Western public understands that Russia doesn't,
but when it comes to India, it's almost seen as
this kind of yoga chai te, peace loving place, where
(15:35):
in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on
the other end of kind of oppression understands what India
truly is. So I think what we'd like to do
is I don't think it's unreasonable. This is a nation
that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations
(15:55):
land and targeting their citizens of any religious Backrondah. So
I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously.
And the fact that it continues to happen, I think
is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
If it was, you know, if there's you know, some
sort of public.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Statements, sanctions, if there was you know, a full on
effort to say that this is a violation of our sovereignty, yeah,
it would perhaps slow down, but it's continuing, and it's
continuing rapidly where we're seeing gunshots and you know, even
though Indian nationals are being extra added to the states,
it's not stopping. So I think more aggressive action is needed.
(16:37):
And the fact that it keeps happening. Is is just
a reflection of how lacks these governments have been as
a result of these actions.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms
of transnational oppression or really like by the US government
at least as this this consolidated program. It seems to
be seen as like these incidents where then you know,
joining the dots and being like, get this, this is
an attempt at repression, you know, murder of US citizens
in me that these two cases, right, I know this
(17:06):
just happened with other diaspora communities. Sometimes the like DJ
or someone within that has reached out to people in
the community, especially people who are prominent and been like,
there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you.
Has that happened within the sick community?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
There's been multiple folks warned here in California, in Canada,
all over the US that you know.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
There is legitimate threats to your life.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Though it's a problem because they cannot give you any
more information than that. So you ask, you know, where's
the threat from. Let say, we can disclose that it's
it's confidential. So obviously six who advocate for sovereignty and
freedom of their people that can Punjab know where where
the threat is from. Yeah, And I think the underlying
(17:55):
understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it
as well. They're essentially waiting for when it is politically
you know, acceptable, when it is politically beneficial for them
to actually say something about it. And I think we
are an under no illusions that you know that these
guys are going to speak for us for the sake
(18:15):
of justice, that they're going to you know, express our
perspective and condemn these nations based on the protection of six.
We know our liberation is going to be the result
of our efforts. But I think from a lobbying perspective,
from an expression perspective, I think it is not unreasonable
(18:37):
of us to.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Expect that of governments where we are citizens. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like it's kind of the trade that you make r
in theory, Like you give up a lot of freedom
and in turn you get safety in and you're giving
up one and not getting the other right now, right
right exactly. So, Like there have been various movements for Kaliftan,
(19:03):
I think we should just mention that, like in the
nineteen eighties, more like confrontational attempts at Kalistan like independence
were met with collective punishment by the Indian state and
non Sik people right within India.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So going dating back to the eighties, actually up until
eighty four, there was no united Movement for independence something
else he called up Prinda on It was kind of
the face of the thick rights movement. But in the
document that they had proposed to the government, the an
unput CYB resolution, it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six
(19:38):
And I think that's an important point to continue to mention,
is that the way the Indian state portrays Kalistan is
anti Hindu, and I think they understand that to get
the public support, we need to portray movements or anything
really that's not in our interest as anti Hindu. We
need to make them feel threatened. Yeah, and if we
(19:59):
can do that, there will be support for us to
engage in these collective punishments.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So in the eighties and nineties, actually we call.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
It the Decade of Disappearances, is where the Indian government
went from village to village disappearing six hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Essentially, our last generation was wiped out by the Indian state.
And you know, they disposed of.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Their bodies and crematories throw them in rivers, and you know,
like we basically say that there's a sixth river of
blood in Bujab because that is just how many young
men were killed from eighty five to.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Nineteen ninety five. So there was an armed resistance against this.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
I mean they were seeing their sisters taken into police
stations and all kinds of atrocities committed against them. They
were seeing their brothers disappeared, you know, their family members.
So at some point it is better to give up
your life than to live in these circumstances. And so
that is the brink that they were pushed to, and
(21:03):
so we lean on their example, though the movement does
not quite exactly at that same place today, we lean
on their example in that saying, these people were.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Willing to give up their lives for this.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Cause, and us sitting in comfort, even if it's you know,
temporary safety, we have a responsibility to move this movement forward.
And with these new assassinations, that's another important thing to mention.
We've saw murders of essentially the biggest Pujabi pops, Sadhu
(21:38):
Musah in history. I mean, this guy was in Hollywood,
he was, he was everywhere, and when he started talking
about Kadistan, when he started making music regarding Pajab's rights,
he was assassinated. And we're seeing a new wave of
Indian oppression. And for the first time now people that thought,
(22:00):
oh the eighties and nineties, you know, you guys could
be making something up. Maybe the Indian government is right,
you guys can be making up. Now they're seeing these
assassinations happen in front of their eyes, and they're making
the judgment call as to who is in the right
and who is in And I think that's another reason
that the Kalistan movement continues to gain kind of solidarity
(22:21):
within the six all over the world.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah. Sure, Like if if a government is trying to
assassinate people to just essentially saying something it disagrees with it,
it's not hard to see like who's in the wrong exactly.
So I wonder, like, obviously there's a genuine threat to
Sik communities here that continues to be a threat to
seek migrants from both political parties in the United States, right, Yeah,
(22:44):
I'm interested, but not hopeful to see how their asylum
claims go based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined,
and there's this threat to seek people in their homeland
in point job, how can people who are not sick,
who are not part of the community like be in solidary,
how can they support What can they do to, like
I guess yet, to stop people being murdered?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Well, it sounds cliche to say awareness, but at this
point in time, they're just enough people aware of you know,
how in danger they are, because if they don't speak
for six today, tomorrow it could be them. And if
the Western governments are allowing foreign nations to come in
(23:28):
and they have embassies in these countries, and they're allowing
these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens,
then what's to say that they won't be next tomorrow.
It's the age old saying there was no one left
to speak for me. That's part of it is you
have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this.
So I guess the first thing we'd like to see
is solidarity with that Aalestine. Now most folks have an
(23:53):
opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word
and they've seen six everywhere you know where the folks
that walk around with urbans, and we're one of the
probably ninety nine percent of people you see with turbans
on our six and so we're.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A very visible community.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
However, the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our
background is generally lacking. So I think the more that
we can understand who six are, what their beliefs are,
what they're fighting.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
For, why they're here to begin with, I think, you know, there.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Will be more political pressure regarding that, and I'm seeing
it starting to shift slightly, especially in the past five
to ten years. We've tipped the skills just slightly, but
we're far from from anywhere substantial.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I think for like, at least for my group
of friends, right, we go down to the border and
help people, and like we've encountered sick people because they
were always there with us helping us, right, Like some
sick folks flew down from other places and joined us
and stayed out there and helped us feed people. And like,
sick folks have shown up for other people substantially all
(25:02):
over the world. And I think it would be really
good to see people kind of reflect that that solidarity
that's kind of baked into the sick religion that it
would be nice to see people doing that in return,
absolutely as seeks organized to their own community safety. Like
obviously there's like a pressing danger to people, especially people
who are vocal a Sikhs organized to like take care
(25:26):
of one another in that sense.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
To some extent.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Yes, And again a part of organization and having support
that comes from that organization is having political power. And
six have political power in certain instances, but they do
not have a homeland or the resources to kind of
back it up. And you know, politics kind of lobbying
works with money. So the fact that we have these
(25:51):
immigration problems a is a result of India's efforts, but
be the reason that they don't have the support.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
They need is because don't have a homeland where they can.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Say, all right, these are our beliefs, these are our people.
We support our people, we will give them these resources
that they need. So we're kind of always operating at
a grassroots level. Yeah, and that's part of the issue
is why there's not grand or large scale change.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
But it continues to march forward.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
You know, as generations grow up, as they become more
involved in different facets.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
A lot of people, especially in the United states.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused
on surviving. How are we going to put food on
the table? Are were going to put a roof over
your head? And so the next generation kind of has
the opportunity to explore how.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
They can make a difference for their people. So Canada
is getting there, the UK is getting there, the US.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Is behind just because our migration here was later than
those places to that level.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
But it's getting there.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more
about like the sick religion or like sick people. That
good resources that you could suggest.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Absolutely, I think there's a very thorough background of what
Calliston is just on callist on dot org. Okay, so
kJ l I s t an dot org. They have publications,
they have documentaries. They've done a significant amount of work
to give the background of a Y six will never
stop fighting for freedom and be kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
What the circumstances are today.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
So they've they've done a fairly good job at that.
Other than that, there's pages on social media. There's free
five a B which stands for free puin job. It's
it's on Twitter, TikTok and of course TikTok.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Has deleted that page many times.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
So we're trying to figure out where the where the
alliances are there, and Instagram of course has done their
thing based on their alliances.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
But there are some.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Resources out there, and of course if you google it,
the first things that are going to come up is
Times of India.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, you know, in those.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Tun Times basically saying this is a terrorist movement that's
funded by foreign governments to break the unity integrity of India.
It's a very rudimentary explanation, basically rooted in violence and
how these people just have it out for us.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
But the reality is entirely different and the facts speak
to that.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
And I think the assassination attempts of today, the folks
that remain in Indian and jails today, there's a UK
citizen in Indian jail.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
There are you know, folks that are dying in Indian prisons.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
There's folks that have completed their sentences six thirty plus
years still sitting in Indian prisons. So all of the
circumstances today kind of speak to why this movement exists
and will continue to exist. So hopefully we can take
advantage of some of the resources out there.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, that's great, and I hope people will go and
look educate themselves. You can look up Culsa AID as
well if you're interested in like the sort of sort
of diarity and support side of Sikhism. Those people have
been great at the border, and I know they've done
tons about the great humanitarian work as well.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Is there anything else that you'd like people to know
before we finish up here, like about six or about
college down things they can do to help.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I would like everyone to be open to the opportunity
that there are more people in the world that are
seeking to suppress and oppress than just what is told
by American media today. At least be open to the opportunity.
India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore,
and communities like the six who have experienced violent genocide
(29:47):
and today are experiencing the genocide. I think it's very
important to understand that the sick genocide never ended. It
continues today in different facets, in different forms. So that's
A and B the struggle for freedom and sovereignty, though
they want to put it on. So the Indian state
(30:08):
continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone. They
have enemity with Pakistan, so they try to say that
Kadistan is a movement to the byproduct of kind of
focused on the interference, even though the facts speak otherwise.
That if it's not Fakistan that killed hundreds of thousands
of six, it's not Fakistan that is assassinating six out
(30:30):
in these foreign countries. So they try to kill two
birds with one stone. India is definitely not a democracy.
I would like the viewers to be open to that
possibility as well and do.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Your own research.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Of course, I have a perspective based on the circumstances
that my people have been through, and I would hope
everyone can form a more thorough understanding and that there
is a lot more happening, especially in that region than
is politically correct to right now. So that's what I'll
(31:02):
finish with.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, that's great, Thank you very much for that. I
think that's a really good place to finish. Thank you
so much for your time, and yeah, I really appreciate
you explaining to that for us.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Of course, thank you for having me jail.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts and the cool Zone Media. Visit our
website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It could happen here, Updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Host
Robert Evans
Show Links
AboutPopular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
3. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.