January 14, 2026 • 40 mins
James is joined by Gordayen to discuss the protest wave in Iran, massive regime violence, and the possibilities for the future.
Sources:
https://www.instagram.com/hengaw_english?igsh=MTZ3Z29qd3h6YzVlMA==
https://www.instagram.com/ali.javanmardi?igsh=ODV2cGZzaXk2Z3dt
https://www.instagram.com/soran.mansournia?igsh=OWFhNDdtMTRtNzl0
https://www.instagram.com/kurdistanipeople?igsh=MTI3Y3kwZ3V0N3Zvag==
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's meet James today and I'm very lucky to be
joined again by Gourdain, who's a journalist from East Kerdistan
working with HENGO, the human rights organization and lots of
other organizations. And we're going to talk today about what
has been happening in Iran for the past few weeks.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So thanks for joining Uscordain. Hello, thank you very much
for inviting me again to the to the show. And yeah,
I'm really glad to be here and I am ready
to talk about all the things that have happening in
the past few weeks in Kurdistan and Iran. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I think for a lot of people, what is happening
in Iran in the last few weeks has not really
punched into the mainstream US media for the most part, right,
So I think we should probably begin with a very
basic overview of what has been happening and a little
bit of why it's been happening and also where, because
I think that's worth mentioning, right.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, sure, So, just a few days before the Nearest Eve,
on December twenty eighth, there was a spontaneous demonstration and
strike in Tehran's Grand Bazaar, which is basically the center
of Iran's trade and one of the most important backbones
of the Islamic regime or revolution. There were strikes inside
(01:28):
the Bazzar, and so many shopkeepers and business owners just
closed down their businesses and they took to the streets
and inside the shopping centers and they started chanting against
the regime, and they were basically protesting the horrible economic
situations and the decrease of the Iranian reol or the
(01:49):
Iranian currency against the US dollar, which was one dollar
was equal to one million point four hundred thousand Iranian reols.
And then these protests quickly spread it all over the
city in Tehran, and as usual this is what happens
all the time, the Iranian regime forces they started attacking
(02:11):
people and trying to control the situation, but it somehow
got out of their control and the next days these protests,
these strikes spread it to other cities, to other major
cities from Shira's, Mashat, Isfahan, Tabriz and many other cities
got involved. But in the early January, around January five
(02:35):
to six and seven, there were major protests in cities
like Malikshahi in Ilan Province and other cities in Kermanshah Province,
which are basically the Kurdish provinces in western Iran. What
is really unique about this is that usually when protests
happened across Iran, or when there is something happening, the
(02:58):
Kurdish regions are the first two react. But this time
the Kurdish regions, like if I want to say, the
West Azerbaijan Province and the San and Dutch Province, they
were not really involved because a lot of people were
saying that in the previous movements, especially in twenty twenty two,
we gave too much. There were too many victims here.
(03:20):
But the center was silent, I mean Tehran and Shiraz
and these major Iranian cities. So a lot of people
didn't really come out and there was nothing happening. And
at the same time, this is my personal opinion, I
think because there was also a heavy snowfall in Kurdish
regions and it was really cold, and I think a
lot of people just didn't want to go out. Yeah,
(03:42):
So this was happening in Malikshahi and other cities in
Elam and Kermansha Province until I think it was January
fifth that there was a really really big demonstration in Malekshahi,
and it's a small city, but I can say majority
of the people were out on the streets and then
the Iranian regime forces started shooting at people and they
(04:04):
injured and killed a lot of people. And the hospital
in that city, that in that small city was full
and they had no space anymore. So the people took
the injured protesters to the center or the capital of
the province in Elam City, to the Imam Romani Hospital.
What happened in this hospital was that there were so
(04:25):
many people in front of the hospital, like families and
relatives of the victims. And then after a few hours,
the Iranian regime forces started attacking the hospital. There were
so many videos and footage that came out, and we
also posted it on hangout and all over the internet
that the regime forces were basically surrounding the whole building
(04:46):
and then they started shooting tear gases inside the hospital.
And then there was a video that came out that
these regime forces were trying to get inside the hospital
and arrest or kidnap all the injured people or if
there was a dead body or something, and then there
was some sort of resistance from the medical staff, and
(05:06):
then they started beating the medical staff. And then a
few days later we also posted about it that some
of these medical stuff in that hospital were also arrested.
The same thing was also happening in a few other cities,
but this was very specific and it got very viral
(05:27):
on social media and a lot of people talked about it.
And at the same time, there were massive protests taking
place in Tehran and other major cities, which like, I
am twenty eight years old and I think I've never
seen such thing happening in Iran. It was really extraordinary.
(05:47):
So while these things were happening, there were also a
lot of calls from people in Kurtison that they were
calling on Kurdish parties to do something, to say something.
So on January seven, Kurdish parties from Iran they had
a meeting and they announced a call for a general
strike in Kurdistan for all over Iran. So on Thursday,
(06:12):
January eighth, over forty cities across Kurdistan they went on
a strike which was really big, and it wasn't really
discussed or talked about on major media, and it was
somehow ignored while it was a really big action that
took place there, and usually after the strikes in Curtison,
(06:34):
this is something that's happening for years. People take to
the streets and protest during the night. It happened in
a few cities and there were some people injured and
also killed. And then it's been over one hundred and
twenty four hours. Right now as we're talking now that
there is no internet connection in Iran and even the
(06:57):
normal lines don't work. You cannot call anyone from outside
of Iran. However, there are some people who have access
to the Starlink Internet and a few people that have
access to I don't know, some sort of strong VPNs
that work for a few minutes and then they disconnect.
(07:18):
And at the same time, I have contact to two
people who have been using the SIM cards or the
Internet from Iraq or Turkey. They are living on the
border regions, but they also have a limited access. So
this is what's happening right now. And as we were
talking about this, this blackout in Iran has caused a
(07:41):
lot of confusion, a lot of horror that the world
doesn't know what's happening exactly right now. After the blackout,
there were a few videos and footage that came out
that were published by major activists or journalists like Ali
Jo and Marriage and so many others that they receive
(08:02):
these videos, I don't know, from the Internet, from starlink,
and you can see in these videos that in a
place called Carriza, it's near Tehran, It's where the Tehran's
Forcenic Medical Center is located. You can see in these
videos that countless of bodies, maybe hundreds or maybe thousands
(08:23):
of bodies are just on the ground. They're in body
bags and desperate family members, relatives, all traumatized, they are
looking for their loved ones and it's just like it's
so unbelievable. It's like movies. And apparently the regime forces
have machine guned all these people. Jesus, And right now,
(08:45):
because of the blackout, we really don't know how many
people are exactly killed, how many people are injured, how
many people are arrested, or these things. You know, we
don't know the exact numbers, and it makes things so hard.
But today, a few hours ago, there was a report
from Iran International that stated that over twelve thousand people
(09:09):
have been killed. But this also is not fully confirmed
because they just got these things through some sources. And
then at the same time, CBS News also published a
report and said that between twelve thousand to twenty thousand
people have been killed, but again this is not really
(09:29):
fully confirmed or verified because there is no information coming
out that much. At the same time, we also got
reports from Kurdistan that in the city of Kermanshah, these
regime forces were taking the dead bodies with bosses. We
don't know how many, but we know that they were
(09:50):
taking these bodies with bosses like we don't know how
many hundreds. And from this footage that you can also
see that the regime is taking all these bodies with
containers with talks all over the city in Tehran and
they're bringing it to the center that I mentioned before,
(10:12):
and all families are looking for their children and their people.
At the same time, I also got this direct information
from someone who is from Rush in north of Iran.
She was traveling from Tehran to Rush and she said
that the people have burnt down most of the mosques
and also the banks and other government buildings. Are also
(10:35):
footage all over the internet that in most of the
cities that people have burnt down the whole mosques and
buildings belonging to the government. And at the same time
she also said that in that city there are so
many people that are killed. She doesn't know how many
or who, but families were desperately looking for their loved
(10:57):
ones on the streets or anywhere. This this is basically
the same in almost every major city or even small city.
We don't know exactly, but this is the footage that
we got from tehronly that it shows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, there are many many also in our organization, we
got a few confirmations from these limited access that some
of these people killed in Tehran are also Kurdish and
from obviously from other minoritory groups as well. At the
same time, there is a special case that I want
to talk about. There is a person like a protester,
(11:36):
his name is Erfon Sultani, who was arrested a few
days ago, and he is planned to be executed tomorrow.
We don't know if they're really going to do that
or whatever, but this is a really big sign that
a lot of people are warning about it, like human
rights organizations, and that the regime might carry out mass
(11:59):
executions everywhere and just to take control over the situation, right,
this is also something that might happen.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, so it did execute people after the mini protest,
but they didn't do a three day trial, right that
they did here, They had like a show trial first
that in those instant series.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, they executed dozens of people after Genamini was killed,
and also previously in the previous years. So this is
like what what's in general is happening. And at the
same time, like in diaspora in western countries, there are
groups that are on the streets, like people that are
calling for solidarity or whatever that can be done to
(12:41):
help people out inside Iran. Yeah, this is like a
general overview of what's happening. And as I said before,
because there is no internet connection and if there is,
it's very limited, nobody knows what's happening exactly. Nobody knows
the exact scale of the the crimes that are taking
(13:03):
place right now there.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements here and
then we'll come back and talk a little more.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Okay, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So if people have seen anything about this, I don't
know if there are on like a x. They will
have seen videos of masks burning and maybe videos of
the PAK like shooting at buildings. You know, visit the
videos that were kind of widely circulated before people lost
access to the internet. And I think there's some idea
(13:44):
that like this isn't armed uprising, and I think it
would be good to explain to people that like that
there are people clearly the present there is presence of
like armed groups who apposed a regime in Iran, right,
but they are not necessarily the ones like leading the
charge here. So maybe we could explain a little bit
(14:04):
about both the arm groups who are Kaddish. There are
some arm groups in Balochistan as well, and like where
they sit in relevance to these protests.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, so far I can speak for Kurtisan, Yeah, there
have I've seen also this footage that PAK or the
Freedom Party of Curtisan published social media. I cannot personally
confirm that, but there has always been a call for
military action against the regime in the previous years, and
(14:38):
even before Gina Amini in twenty twenty two, there was
always some sort of call from the people. But right
now as we are seeing, the Kurdish Party is the
seven major Kurdish parties from Iran. They are not taking
really a real military action because there is a big
(14:59):
fear that if they do this, the regime might bomb
the cities and kill thousands of civilians with heavy weapons
and even missiles. So this is also one of the
main reasons that even the parties have talked about it
many times before when people called for a military sport.
(15:20):
But of course I can also confirm this that all
of these parties, all of these organizations have some sort
of networks inside Iran that they are monitoring the situation,
they are collecting information, and they are like connecting people together,
and in some cases that I am aware of that
(15:40):
happened in my hometown in Urmia in twenty twenty two,
some of these parties also have been able to lead
the protests, like to organized protests. So this is for
now the presence of these parties. But for Baluchistan, I
can also say that I think it was in October
(16:01):
or November twenty twenty five that all these groups in
Baluchustan they had a conference and they announced that they
are all united and they're all working together under one banner.
So they also carried out a lot of attacks on
the IRGC bases and vehicles in the regions in the
past few months, but so far we haven't heard much
(16:22):
from them in the past few weeks. We don't know
they're not doing anything, or if they are doing anything,
it's not on the internet or it's not published yet. Yeah,
this is the situation right now with these groups. But
at the same time, groups or parties actually like Pijak,
(16:43):
they also have warned that this was like, if I
want to say, quote unquote, don't play with fire, they
were warning the Dreaming regime that they shouldn't play with fire. Yeah,
this is a situation right now that's going on with
the parties as well.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, and it's very complicated for people who are not
right familiar. I think like maybe we should take a
step back even further and just explain I guess the
concept of Iran as like a contiguous empire might be
a good way to see it, right, with different ethnic
groups currently under the control of one state, Can you
(17:20):
just explain that for people if they if they're not
familiar it, Because I think in the US, like Persian
identity and Iranian identity by people who are not familiar
with it, are conflated, right, But if you could explain
the different nations that exist within the state, that might
help people.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, like Iran as a geography is a very diverse country.
So basically, the Persians, or as they call themselves, the Iranians,
are the dominant group. They are the majority, but we
also have the Ozari Turkish people who are the second majority,
and then we have the Kurds, we have the Baluchis.
(17:58):
Then there are Ahwazi Arabs in the south, and then
there are Turkmen people, and then there are Thai li Isshis,
but their numbers are really small. And at the same
time there is also the Mazandharrani or the Gilak people
that live in the Caspian Sea coast. There are also
(18:19):
a different ethnic group. They have a different linguistic background,
but because of the Iranian state policies of one hundred years,
majority of them are assimilated and no longer carry that
cultural heritage or identity. But in Kurdistan, in Baluchistan, in Ahwas,
in Azerbaijan, it's it's really different, and also in the
(18:41):
Turkmen regions. Basically this is what Iran looks like. Of course,
there are other small minorities like Armenians even Georgians that
migrated to like hundreds of years ago. There are also
several religious groups like the Shia Muslims are the majority,
with Persians and ozo Re Turks are basically the followers
(19:04):
of this religion. And then there are Sunni Sunni Muslims
who are like majority of them are Baluchis and Kurds
and Hawazi Arabs or other groups. And then we have
several other groups from Jews, Christians and also the Yarsanis
which is a Kurdish religious minority, and they're about one
(19:26):
million to two million people. Yeah, this is what Iran
looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes, yeah, and I think people can can be easy
for them to just see it as like Shia Muslim
Persian modelith right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But I also want to add a little bit more
of how this works. So, because the Iranians or the
Persians are the majority, they own the state. The entire
identity is evolving around them. And because of this, during
the past one hundred and fifty one hundred years, there
has been a policy of assimilation in every region in
(20:01):
what's called Iran. Right now, for example, if I want
to talk about the language right now, the only official
language is Persian, and in the past one hundred years
this language has not just been a language of communication,
it has been a language of oppression and similation. And
there are many regions in Iran that were For example,
(20:24):
if I want to talk about Kurtism, there are many
regions in Kermanshah and Elam provinces and other regions that
used to be fully Kurdish and they used to speak
Kurdish just a few decades ago, but now they are
completely assimilated. The same policy was also followed strictly but
heavily in Turkey and also in Iraq and also in Syria.
(20:46):
So this is how this has been working in the
past century, and how all these ethnic groups with different
languages and cultural backgrounds and identities have been forced to
accept an Iranian identity that evolves that turns around the
Persian identity and Persian language and history. Yeah, so this
(21:11):
is also like a general overview of the oppression if
I want.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
To Yeah, no, I think that's pretty the right way
to think. People who have listened to our coverage of
ME and MA will be familiar or like I mean,
this has happening in countersplaces, right, This is this is
why British people will speak English now, yeah, right, like
this is this is how sort of internal empire works.
I wonder like we should talk about the possibilities and
to an extent, the demands here, right, because in the
(21:39):
US it seems to be that there is a binary choice,
or that it's presented as a binary choice between the
current state in Iran and a monarchy, and it doesn't
seem to be an option for self governance, right, for
Iranian people to have democracy, to have liberty, and that's
evidently not the case, right, Like, when you have this
many people in this that's how democracy works. But let's
(22:03):
talk about the sort of the demands and then the
possibilities that it being co opted and turned into another
type of state.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So here in these days or basically in the past decades,
the main demand of people, all different ethnic groups in
the geography of Iran has always been a regime change.
They want this regime gone. Yeah, this is the first
thing that everybody wants. At the same time, there are
(22:36):
other possibilities that could be there. One of the things
that when you look at these ethnic groups and their
organizations and the people, you can see that also most
of them want some sort of federalism or autonomy or
self governance. At the same time, this idea of federalism
(22:59):
and self governance or self determination is nothing that, let's
say that the dominant group would accept because they don't
understand it. Because for them, I wouldn't say all of them,
because I cannot. We cannot generalize everyone. But when you
look at it, the dominant group sees Iran as an entity.
(23:21):
That's that's not the verse. It's just Iran and everybody's Iranian,
just like the way Turkey or the Turkish government sees
everything everybody's Turkish. But in Iran, they also say everybody's Iranian.
We will have an election, we will choose a president,
we will have a parliament, and that's it. That's what
(23:44):
is also being let's say offered. But at the same time,
there is also a call for monarchy. But this is
also something that not majority of people, even Persians, majority
of them don't want monarchy back because there is a
huge discussion between people that here we are fighting against
(24:04):
a dictatorship, why would we bring back another dictatorship. Overall,
I can say that the minority groups majority of them
for now, I would say like if the regime is
going to be changed, they want self governance, but maybe
in the future also independence. We don't know that this
(24:26):
is something complicated to talk about, but for now, this
is what minority groups want. But in the Persian community,
some of them want to have like a republican system
or whatever, but some of them also want to have
monarchy back. And there are also other groups who reject
both republicans and also like monarchists, and they want to
(24:49):
have more diverse and more open system for the future.
But again this is something that we cannot say how
it's going to be preceded because we don't know how
the situation is going to be and how these opposition
groups are going to work together in the future. Are
they gonna start a civil war or are they gonna
(25:10):
sit down together and find a solution. This is all
depends on how the regime falls and when, and the
destruction of this regime is the biggest priority right now.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we could see a situation very
much like the one that's happening and folding right now
in western Kurdishtewan and folding later in Iran if the
regime falls right which unfortunately is just something else we
have to talk about at the time, but very terrible
things happening there too. Because you know, most of our
(25:49):
listeners are in America. The way that people may have
engaged with this is through Donald Trump's posting on truth
social where he has said that help is coming recently, Like,
let's talk about what US intervention means, like, especially in
the in the context of a like the US having
(26:09):
intervened all over the Middle East, and what that has
meant and be Like the US's recent national security strategy,
which suggests that basically they don't care about the region
and they don't want to be involved in the region.
Let's talk about what that means and what it might
not be the panas here people think it is.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, So in the past few weeks, Trump hass said
a lot of things. In the first few days, he
came out and said that if the regime is going
to kill civilians, we're going to do this, and that
we're going to punish the regime. And then I think
it was an interview or he was on TV, I
don't exactly remember, but he said something that all the
(26:48):
people that were killed, we don't know if the regime
killed them. Maybe they just were killed in the crowd,
like there were like thousands of people in the regional. Yeah,
like a crash. They were crushed. And this is so unbelievable.
He's making these comments and then he's just threatening the
regime all over it again. And just a few hours ago,
(27:09):
as you mentioned, he said that the help is coming
and he's asking people to keep fighting and keep protesting
and things like that. However, we should also, like regarding this,
we should talk about what people also want from Trump.
This has been like something that a lot of people,
again this is not the majority, but a lot of
(27:31):
people have been calling on him or basically on America
or something to do an action against the regime, to
do something against the regime or damage the regime so
that people can get rid of it. And right now
I saw some screenshots from people who were able to
get access to the internet for a few moments. I
(27:52):
saw one there was shared on the internet that a
woman from Tehran was saying that they were killing everyone.
I don't know where my children are. One of them
is nineteen and the other one is twenty three. She
was just saying, please, please be our voice and just
tell them to attack tell Trump to help. So this
is also something that there is a call for attacking
(28:16):
Iran and destroying the regime, but again we don't know
if Trump is really gonna do this or not. There
is also like threats coming from Europe as well in UK,
but again, as you mentioned, if these attacks happen, we
don't is it gonna be something like Iraq or Afghanistan
(28:37):
or other places, or is it gonna really help the
people of Iran, the people inside iron to get rid
of the regime, which is also really hard to understand
because Trump hasn't been really clear about all these things.
On one side, he was also asked if he has
any talks or connections with the so called Prince Razaphalavi,
(28:59):
and he said no, he's a good guy, but I
don't want to talk to him. But then now you
can see that on Fox News, like all the Trump
affiliated or pro Trump media, they are promoting this guy
all the time. And at the same time, Rizzopelae was
also on TV and he was on CBS and he
(29:20):
said that he's directly in touch with Trump administration. So
we don't know like what exactly. I mean, it's so
hard to understand what exactly the US is going to do. Yeah,
they also announced that we're going to put more like
twenty five percent tariff on countries who work with her
(29:42):
on or trade with her on. And then the European
Parliament also announced that we're going to ban all Iranian
diplomats from entering the European Parliament. Not made to begin with,
all these comments that are coming out, they are so vague,
and at the same time, there are calls from Germany,
France and I think Australia too that they were calling
(30:02):
on the citizens that are in Iran, like tourists or whatever,
to immediately leave Iran. Yeah, this is also something that
we don't know, like Trump is not somebody that you
could trust. Yeah, ask people and Jia. And at the
same time, sorry, this is also important. There was also
some news that the Iranian authorities in the Foreign ministry
(30:25):
were trying or they contacted some people from Trump administration
for negotiations, but then Trump said that we will not
negotiate anything. So this is all like all these contradictions
that Trump is just talking about, and he's denying that
the regime is killing people and people are just being
(30:47):
killed because it's too crowded.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And then you see mainly like tweeting that everyone out
in the street is a Trump supporter, right, which is like,
that's useful to him, that narrative is useful to him,
that these are American imperialist or American whatever puppets.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, of course that has been the regime's behavior forever. Yeah,
whenever something happens, they immediately blame it on America, Israel.
I don't know UK budget. It's good that you mentioned
what company was saying. In the first few days. He
said that, yeah, we hear you the people in bazaar,
(31:25):
and yeah, we hear you, sorry that this is going on,
and things like that. But then he immediately said that
the people who are protesting, they are destroying everything and
we will deal with them in the harshest way. And
then the president of Iran, Pishkiki, and he also came
(31:45):
out and he said almost the same thing, and then
he started threatening people. And a few days after that,
the head of the judiciary, the Iranian judiciary came out
and said that like in a very very aggressive language,
he said that we will deal with you in the
worst ways possible, we will destroy you, and things like that.
(32:06):
It's he posted a lot of texts on his Twitter account.
His name is Moscid. So yeah, there is also like
a huge online fightings between these politicians and so called
leaders that makes the situation even more complicated and hard
to understand.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I think from a US perspective, like when America
invaded a Rock, right, they had a partner force in Kurdistan.
When America worked in Syria, they had a partner force
again in Western Kurdistan. Like, they don't really have that here,
Like this is not really a I mean, the payarch
is still on the American Foreign Terrorist Organization list. It's
(32:48):
not like that like American sort of partner force boots
on the ground like that that they had these other places.
Likely what they would do is just bomb stuff. That's
kind of the approach it most likely here in it.
Bombing alone is unlikely to remove the regime.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, I think bombing with is definitely not enough because
they bombed They tried the regime hardly last year, but
it is still there. Of course, it was the regime
got weaker, like it weakened really bad. But at the
same time, like I think, if there's gonna be something,
(33:27):
and if there's gonna be something like Syria or Iraq.
I think the Americans or the American government would possibly
work with the Kurdish groups even though they are on
the so called terror list, like you know, it happened
in Rojova, in in in Syria. That's how they they've
been working with the Kurdish groups even though they're related
(33:47):
to PKK and PKK is on the terror.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Or they removed them that they did with HTS, right,
and then suddenly these guys they've transformed.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Now, yeah, so this could also happen, but we don't
know because it's been years. It's been decades that the
US is always threatening Iran and then something happens, then
they do nothing and it's just there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It reinforces the legitimacy of both states to threaten each other,
right and see each other's adversaries, and to a degree
use that for domestic violence against their own citizens, right,
or you know, terrorism stuff. I guess finally we should
just talk about one other thing that mainly said, which
is like that American and Israeli shipping would become legitimate
(34:34):
targets if you thought the Americans were involved, right, Just
to explain, this is the possibilities of people if they're
not familiar.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Well, this is not a new thing, to be honest.
They've won this before and in the previous years many times,
and there were times that they attacked some US bases,
like the one in Iraq, it's called Al Assad or
something like that. They fortunately they attacked it a few
times I guess in the past few years. Yeah, this
(35:05):
is also really complicated because how can I explain the
regime always does these threats and it might not do
it at all. But at the same time, this is
also something that I think that if the regime falls,
and if it's the last moments, they would probably try
(35:29):
to do something to damage the region or to damage
the people as much as they can, and then they
would just give up on everything and just disappear. So
they could do that. But if I want to go
back to to last year, we also need to understand
that after the Twelve Day War, Israel also destroyed a
(35:53):
massive amount of Iranian military basis and all these buildings
and structures. But still nobody don't truly understand how much
has been destroyed. But the Iranian air force is really
really weak right now. I'm apparently completely destroyed, so Iran
is not as strong as before. So there could be
(36:17):
a possibility that Iran actually doesn't have the capability to
attack US BASS across the region anymore. Yeah, So this
could be also a possibility that they are just threatening there.
They really don't have anything left anymore, or their military
capabilities are completely down.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, or they'll do that sort of symbolic send a
half dozen shah He drones and let the Americans shoot
them down and they say, oh, wow, we tried, or
you know, we we attack them, even though you know,
most of the time they have hurt a couple of
American people with them, but relatively unsuccessful. I wonder like
this is obvious a situation that people will want to follow.
(36:57):
Things are developing very quickly, and good news, good reporting
on Iran is very hard to find in America. So
where would you suggest people look Either you know, your
own stuff, or at the sources you suggest people should
look to.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
If I want to mention for obviously, I work with
a hangout organization. It's a trusted organization. People can follow them.
And there is also a journalist called Ali Jawan Mardi.
He is a supervisor at Voice of America. Kurdish, Persian
and Afghanistan, and these are like the sources that I
(37:32):
personally trust. There are other organizations such as Curtis and
Human Rights Network. There is also Iran Rights or Abdu
Rahan Buruman Center for Human Rights in Iran. There are
several organizations, human rights organizations that are constantly reporting and
they are trying to reflect what's happening, and there I
(37:56):
could say majority of them are honest and there are
not trying to push for a specific narrative, especially the Palabis,
because right now, if you check the media, the international media,
the Iranian media such as Iran International or BBC Persian
and all of these major medias even in the US,
(38:18):
they are pushing for the monarchist and they are completely
ignoring the other groups like, for example, the Kourdish people.
I said, I mentioned that there was this great and
big strike that happened in forty cities. It's a very
big social act, but barely anyone talked about it, Barely
(38:39):
anyone mentioned it. So I think it's for people, it's
better to follow human rights organizations and do not really
fall for the things that some media that are just
promoting a specific person because they're just taking away the truth. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to finish up.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
If people want to follow you, do you have any
social media or pace people can find your work.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I have my personal page, but it's not really big.
I just post some slides recently, and my other page
curtis signing people. It got disabled unfortunately, but then I
started again. Uh, I'm just posting like some updates and
like slides about the important things that I find. I
can also put the links there.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, we'll include them believe the podcast so people can
click on it.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us
this evening. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah,
it could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can now find sources for It Could Happen here,
(39:56):
listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's meet James today and I'm very lucky to be
joined again by Gourdain, who's a journalist from East Kerdistan
working with HENGO, the human rights organization and lots of
other organizations. And we're going to talk today about what
has been happening in Iran for the past few weeks.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So thanks for joining Uscordain. Hello, thank you very much
for inviting me again to the to the show. And yeah,
I'm really glad to be here and I am ready
to talk about all the things that have happening in
the past few weeks in Kurdistan and Iran. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I think for a lot of people, what is happening
in Iran in the last few weeks has not really
punched into the mainstream US media for the most part, right,
So I think we should probably begin with a very
basic overview of what has been happening and a little
bit of why it's been happening and also where, because
I think that's worth mentioning, right.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, sure, So, just a few days before the Nearest Eve,
on December twenty eighth, there was a spontaneous demonstration and
strike in Tehran's Grand Bazaar, which is basically the center
of Iran's trade and one of the most important backbones
of the Islamic regime or revolution. There were strikes inside
(01:28):
the Bazzar, and so many shopkeepers and business owners just
closed down their businesses and they took to the streets
and inside the shopping centers and they started chanting against
the regime, and they were basically protesting the horrible economic
situations and the decrease of the Iranian reol or the
(01:49):
Iranian currency against the US dollar, which was one dollar
was equal to one million point four hundred thousand Iranian reols.
And then these protests quickly spread it all over the
city in Tehran, and as usual this is what happens
all the time, the Iranian regime forces they started attacking
(02:11):
people and trying to control the situation, but it somehow
got out of their control and the next days these protests,
these strikes spread it to other cities, to other major
cities from Shira's, Mashat, Isfahan, Tabriz and many other cities
got involved. But in the early January, around January five
(02:35):
to six and seven, there were major protests in cities
like Malikshahi in Ilan Province and other cities in Kermanshah Province,
which are basically the Kurdish provinces in western Iran. What
is really unique about this is that usually when protests
happened across Iran, or when there is something happening, the
(02:58):
Kurdish regions are the first two react. But this time
the Kurdish regions, like if I want to say, the
West Azerbaijan Province and the San and Dutch Province, they
were not really involved because a lot of people were
saying that in the previous movements, especially in twenty twenty two,
we gave too much. There were too many victims here.
(03:20):
But the center was silent, I mean Tehran and Shiraz
and these major Iranian cities. So a lot of people
didn't really come out and there was nothing happening. And
at the same time, this is my personal opinion, I
think because there was also a heavy snowfall in Kurdish
regions and it was really cold, and I think a
lot of people just didn't want to go out. Yeah,
(03:42):
So this was happening in Malikshahi and other cities in
Elam and Kermansha Province until I think it was January
fifth that there was a really really big demonstration in Malekshahi,
and it's a small city, but I can say majority
of the people were out on the streets and then
the Iranian regime forces started shooting at people and they
(04:04):
injured and killed a lot of people. And the hospital
in that city, that in that small city was full
and they had no space anymore. So the people took
the injured protesters to the center or the capital of
the province in Elam City, to the Imam Romani Hospital.
What happened in this hospital was that there were so
(04:25):
many people in front of the hospital, like families and
relatives of the victims. And then after a few hours,
the Iranian regime forces started attacking the hospital. There were
so many videos and footage that came out, and we
also posted it on hangout and all over the internet
that the regime forces were basically surrounding the whole building
(04:46):
and then they started shooting tear gases inside the hospital.
And then there was a video that came out that
these regime forces were trying to get inside the hospital
and arrest or kidnap all the injured people or if
there was a dead body or something, and then there
was some sort of resistance from the medical staff, and
(05:06):
then they started beating the medical staff. And then a
few days later we also posted about it that some
of these medical stuff in that hospital were also arrested.
The same thing was also happening in a few other cities,
but this was very specific and it got very viral
(05:27):
on social media and a lot of people talked about it.
And at the same time, there were massive protests taking
place in Tehran and other major cities, which like, I
am twenty eight years old and I think I've never
seen such thing happening in Iran. It was really extraordinary.
(05:47):
So while these things were happening, there were also a
lot of calls from people in Kurtison that they were
calling on Kurdish parties to do something, to say something.
So on January seven, Kurdish parties from Iran they had
a meeting and they announced a call for a general
strike in Kurdistan for all over Iran. So on Thursday,
(06:12):
January eighth, over forty cities across Kurdistan they went on
a strike which was really big, and it wasn't really
discussed or talked about on major media, and it was
somehow ignored while it was a really big action that
took place there, and usually after the strikes in Curtison,
(06:34):
this is something that's happening for years. People take to
the streets and protest during the night. It happened in
a few cities and there were some people injured and
also killed. And then it's been over one hundred and
twenty four hours. Right now as we're talking now that
there is no internet connection in Iran and even the
(06:57):
normal lines don't work. You cannot call anyone from outside
of Iran. However, there are some people who have access
to the Starlink Internet and a few people that have
access to I don't know, some sort of strong VPNs
that work for a few minutes and then they disconnect.
(07:18):
And at the same time, I have contact to two
people who have been using the SIM cards or the
Internet from Iraq or Turkey. They are living on the
border regions, but they also have a limited access. So
this is what's happening right now. And as we were
talking about this, this blackout in Iran has caused a
(07:41):
lot of confusion, a lot of horror that the world
doesn't know what's happening exactly right now. After the blackout,
there were a few videos and footage that came out
that were published by major activists or journalists like Ali
Jo and Marriage and so many others that they receive
(08:02):
these videos, I don't know, from the Internet, from starlink,
and you can see in these videos that in a
place called Carriza, it's near Tehran, It's where the Tehran's
Forcenic Medical Center is located. You can see in these
videos that countless of bodies, maybe hundreds or maybe thousands
(08:23):
of bodies are just on the ground. They're in body
bags and desperate family members, relatives, all traumatized, they are
looking for their loved ones and it's just like it's
so unbelievable. It's like movies. And apparently the regime forces
have machine guned all these people. Jesus, And right now,
(08:45):
because of the blackout, we really don't know how many
people are exactly killed, how many people are injured, how
many people are arrested, or these things. You know, we
don't know the exact numbers, and it makes things so hard.
But today, a few hours ago, there was a report
from Iran International that stated that over twelve thousand people
(09:09):
have been killed. But this also is not fully confirmed
because they just got these things through some sources. And
then at the same time, CBS News also published a
report and said that between twelve thousand to twenty thousand
people have been killed, but again this is not really
(09:29):
fully confirmed or verified because there is no information coming
out that much. At the same time, we also got
reports from Kurdistan that in the city of Kermanshah, these
regime forces were taking the dead bodies with bosses. We
don't know how many, but we know that they were
(09:50):
taking these bodies with bosses like we don't know how
many hundreds. And from this footage that you can also
see that the regime is taking all these bodies with
containers with talks all over the city in Tehran and
they're bringing it to the center that I mentioned before,
(10:12):
and all families are looking for their children and their people.
At the same time, I also got this direct information
from someone who is from Rush in north of Iran.
She was traveling from Tehran to Rush and she said
that the people have burnt down most of the mosques
and also the banks and other government buildings. Are also
(10:35):
footage all over the internet that in most of the
cities that people have burnt down the whole mosques and
buildings belonging to the government. And at the same time
she also said that in that city there are so
many people that are killed. She doesn't know how many
or who, but families were desperately looking for their loved
(10:57):
ones on the streets or anywhere. This this is basically
the same in almost every major city or even small city.
We don't know exactly, but this is the footage that
we got from tehronly that it shows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, there are many many also in our organization, we
got a few confirmations from these limited access that some
of these people killed in Tehran are also Kurdish and
from obviously from other minoritory groups as well. At the
same time, there is a special case that I want
to talk about. There is a person like a protester,
(11:36):
his name is Erfon Sultani, who was arrested a few
days ago, and he is planned to be executed tomorrow.
We don't know if they're really going to do that
or whatever, but this is a really big sign that
a lot of people are warning about it, like human
rights organizations, and that the regime might carry out mass
(11:59):
executions everywhere and just to take control over the situation, right,
this is also something that might happen.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, so it did execute people after the mini protest,
but they didn't do a three day trial, right that
they did here, They had like a show trial first
that in those instant series.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, they executed dozens of people after Genamini was killed,
and also previously in the previous years. So this is
like what what's in general is happening. And at the
same time, like in diaspora in western countries, there are
groups that are on the streets, like people that are
calling for solidarity or whatever that can be done to
(12:41):
help people out inside Iran. Yeah, this is like a
general overview of what's happening. And as I said before,
because there is no internet connection and if there is,
it's very limited, nobody knows what's happening exactly. Nobody knows
the exact scale of the the crimes that are taking
(13:03):
place right now there.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements here and
then we'll come back and talk a little more.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Okay, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So if people have seen anything about this, I don't
know if there are on like a x. They will
have seen videos of masks burning and maybe videos of
the PAK like shooting at buildings. You know, visit the
videos that were kind of widely circulated before people lost
access to the internet. And I think there's some idea
(13:44):
that like this isn't armed uprising, and I think it
would be good to explain to people that like that
there are people clearly the present there is presence of
like armed groups who apposed a regime in Iran, right,
but they are not necessarily the ones like leading the
charge here. So maybe we could explain a little bit
(14:04):
about both the arm groups who are Kaddish. There are
some arm groups in Balochistan as well, and like where
they sit in relevance to these protests.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, so far I can speak for Kurtisan, Yeah, there
have I've seen also this footage that PAK or the
Freedom Party of Curtisan published social media. I cannot personally
confirm that, but there has always been a call for
military action against the regime in the previous years, and
(14:38):
even before Gina Amini in twenty twenty two, there was
always some sort of call from the people. But right
now as we are seeing, the Kurdish Party is the
seven major Kurdish parties from Iran. They are not taking
really a real military action because there is a big
(14:59):
fear that if they do this, the regime might bomb
the cities and kill thousands of civilians with heavy weapons
and even missiles. So this is also one of the
main reasons that even the parties have talked about it
many times before when people called for a military sport.
(15:20):
But of course I can also confirm this that all
of these parties, all of these organizations have some sort
of networks inside Iran that they are monitoring the situation,
they are collecting information, and they are like connecting people together,
and in some cases that I am aware of that
(15:40):
happened in my hometown in Urmia in twenty twenty two,
some of these parties also have been able to lead
the protests, like to organized protests. So this is for
now the presence of these parties. But for Baluchistan, I
can also say that I think it was in October
(16:01):
or November twenty twenty five that all these groups in
Baluchustan they had a conference and they announced that they
are all united and they're all working together under one banner.
So they also carried out a lot of attacks on
the IRGC bases and vehicles in the regions in the
past few months, but so far we haven't heard much
(16:22):
from them in the past few weeks. We don't know
they're not doing anything, or if they are doing anything,
it's not on the internet or it's not published yet. Yeah,
this is the situation right now with these groups. But
at the same time, groups or parties actually like Pijak,
(16:43):
they also have warned that this was like, if I
want to say, quote unquote, don't play with fire, they
were warning the Dreaming regime that they shouldn't play with fire. Yeah,
this is a situation right now that's going on with
the parties as well.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, and it's very complicated for people who are not
right familiar. I think like maybe we should take a
step back even further and just explain I guess the
concept of Iran as like a contiguous empire might be
a good way to see it, right, with different ethnic
groups currently under the control of one state, Can you
(17:20):
just explain that for people if they if they're not
familiar it, Because I think in the US, like Persian
identity and Iranian identity by people who are not familiar
with it, are conflated, right, But if you could explain
the different nations that exist within the state, that might
help people.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, like Iran as a geography is a very diverse country.
So basically, the Persians, or as they call themselves, the Iranians,
are the dominant group. They are the majority, but we
also have the Ozari Turkish people who are the second majority,
and then we have the Kurds, we have the Baluchis.
(17:58):
Then there are Ahwazi Arabs in the south, and then
there are Turkmen people, and then there are Thai li Isshis,
but their numbers are really small. And at the same
time there is also the Mazandharrani or the Gilak people
that live in the Caspian Sea coast. There are also
(18:19):
a different ethnic group. They have a different linguistic background,
but because of the Iranian state policies of one hundred years,
majority of them are assimilated and no longer carry that
cultural heritage or identity. But in Kurdistan, in Baluchistan, in Ahwas,
in Azerbaijan, it's it's really different, and also in the
(18:41):
Turkmen regions. Basically this is what Iran looks like. Of course,
there are other small minorities like Armenians even Georgians that
migrated to like hundreds of years ago. There are also
several religious groups like the Shia Muslims are the majority,
with Persians and ozo Re Turks are basically the followers
(19:04):
of this religion. And then there are Sunni Sunni Muslims
who are like majority of them are Baluchis and Kurds
and Hawazi Arabs or other groups. And then we have
several other groups from Jews, Christians and also the Yarsanis
which is a Kurdish religious minority, and they're about one
(19:26):
million to two million people. Yeah, this is what Iran
looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes, yeah, and I think people can can be easy
for them to just see it as like Shia Muslim
Persian modelith right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But I also want to add a little bit more
of how this works. So, because the Iranians or the
Persians are the majority, they own the state. The entire
identity is evolving around them. And because of this, during
the past one hundred and fifty one hundred years, there
has been a policy of assimilation in every region in
(20:01):
what's called Iran. Right now, for example, if I want
to talk about the language right now, the only official
language is Persian, and in the past one hundred years
this language has not just been a language of communication,
it has been a language of oppression and similation. And
there are many regions in Iran that were For example,
(20:24):
if I want to talk about Kurtism, there are many
regions in Kermanshah and Elam provinces and other regions that
used to be fully Kurdish and they used to speak
Kurdish just a few decades ago, but now they are
completely assimilated. The same policy was also followed strictly but
heavily in Turkey and also in Iraq and also in Syria.
(20:46):
So this is how this has been working in the
past century, and how all these ethnic groups with different
languages and cultural backgrounds and identities have been forced to
accept an Iranian identity that evolves that turns around the
Persian identity and Persian language and history. Yeah, so this
(21:11):
is also like a general overview of the oppression if
I want.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
To Yeah, no, I think that's pretty the right way
to think. People who have listened to our coverage of
ME and MA will be familiar or like I mean,
this has happening in countersplaces, right, This is this is
why British people will speak English now, yeah, right, like
this is this is how sort of internal empire works.
I wonder like we should talk about the possibilities and
to an extent, the demands here, right, because in the
(21:39):
US it seems to be that there is a binary choice,
or that it's presented as a binary choice between the
current state in Iran and a monarchy, and it doesn't
seem to be an option for self governance, right, for
Iranian people to have democracy, to have liberty, and that's
evidently not the case, right, Like, when you have this
many people in this that's how democracy works. But let's
(22:03):
talk about the sort of the demands and then the
possibilities that it being co opted and turned into another
type of state.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So here in these days or basically in the past decades,
the main demand of people, all different ethnic groups in
the geography of Iran has always been a regime change.
They want this regime gone. Yeah, this is the first
thing that everybody wants. At the same time, there are
(22:36):
other possibilities that could be there. One of the things
that when you look at these ethnic groups and their
organizations and the people, you can see that also most
of them want some sort of federalism or autonomy or
self governance. At the same time, this idea of federalism
(22:59):
and self governance or self determination is nothing that, let's
say that the dominant group would accept because they don't
understand it. Because for them, I wouldn't say all of them,
because I cannot. We cannot generalize everyone. But when you
look at it, the dominant group sees Iran as an entity.
(23:21):
That's that's not the verse. It's just Iran and everybody's Iranian,
just like the way Turkey or the Turkish government sees
everything everybody's Turkish. But in Iran, they also say everybody's Iranian.
We will have an election, we will choose a president,
we will have a parliament, and that's it. That's what
(23:44):
is also being let's say offered. But at the same time,
there is also a call for monarchy. But this is
also something that not majority of people, even Persians, majority
of them don't want monarchy back because there is a
huge discussion between people that here we are fighting against
(24:04):
a dictatorship, why would we bring back another dictatorship. Overall,
I can say that the minority groups majority of them
for now, I would say like if the regime is
going to be changed, they want self governance, but maybe
in the future also independence. We don't know that this
(24:26):
is something complicated to talk about, but for now, this
is what minority groups want. But in the Persian community,
some of them want to have like a republican system
or whatever, but some of them also want to have
monarchy back. And there are also other groups who reject
both republicans and also like monarchists, and they want to
(24:49):
have more diverse and more open system for the future.
But again this is something that we cannot say how
it's going to be preceded because we don't know how
the situation is going to be and how these opposition
groups are going to work together in the future. Are
they gonna start a civil war or are they gonna
(25:10):
sit down together and find a solution. This is all
depends on how the regime falls and when, and the
destruction of this regime is the biggest priority right now.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we could see a situation very
much like the one that's happening and folding right now
in western Kurdishtewan and folding later in Iran if the
regime falls right which unfortunately is just something else we
have to talk about at the time, but very terrible
things happening there too. Because you know, most of our
(25:49):
listeners are in America. The way that people may have
engaged with this is through Donald Trump's posting on truth
social where he has said that help is coming recently, Like,
let's talk about what US intervention means, like, especially in
the in the context of a like the US having
(26:09):
intervened all over the Middle East, and what that has
meant and be Like the US's recent national security strategy,
which suggests that basically they don't care about the region
and they don't want to be involved in the region.
Let's talk about what that means and what it might
not be the panas here people think it is.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, So in the past few weeks, Trump hass said
a lot of things. In the first few days, he
came out and said that if the regime is going
to kill civilians, we're going to do this, and that
we're going to punish the regime. And then I think
it was an interview or he was on TV, I
don't exactly remember, but he said something that all the
(26:48):
people that were killed, we don't know if the regime
killed them. Maybe they just were killed in the crowd,
like there were like thousands of people in the regional. Yeah,
like a crash. They were crushed. And this is so unbelievable.
He's making these comments and then he's just threatening the
regime all over it again. And just a few hours ago,
(27:09):
as you mentioned, he said that the help is coming
and he's asking people to keep fighting and keep protesting
and things like that. However, we should also, like regarding this,
we should talk about what people also want from Trump.
This has been like something that a lot of people,
again this is not the majority, but a lot of
(27:31):
people have been calling on him or basically on America
or something to do an action against the regime, to
do something against the regime or damage the regime so
that people can get rid of it. And right now
I saw some screenshots from people who were able to
get access to the internet for a few moments. I
(27:52):
saw one there was shared on the internet that a
woman from Tehran was saying that they were killing everyone.
I don't know where my children are. One of them
is nineteen and the other one is twenty three. She
was just saying, please, please be our voice and just
tell them to attack tell Trump to help. So this
is also something that there is a call for attacking
(28:16):
Iran and destroying the regime, but again we don't know
if Trump is really gonna do this or not. There
is also like threats coming from Europe as well in UK,
but again, as you mentioned, if these attacks happen, we
don't is it gonna be something like Iraq or Afghanistan
(28:37):
or other places, or is it gonna really help the
people of Iran, the people inside iron to get rid
of the regime, which is also really hard to understand
because Trump hasn't been really clear about all these things.
On one side, he was also asked if he has
any talks or connections with the so called Prince Razaphalavi,
(28:59):
and he said no, he's a good guy, but I
don't want to talk to him. But then now you
can see that on Fox News, like all the Trump
affiliated or pro Trump media, they are promoting this guy
all the time. And at the same time, Rizzopelae was
also on TV and he was on CBS and he
(29:20):
said that he's directly in touch with Trump administration. So
we don't know like what exactly. I mean, it's so
hard to understand what exactly the US is going to do. Yeah,
they also announced that we're going to put more like
twenty five percent tariff on countries who work with her
(29:42):
on or trade with her on. And then the European
Parliament also announced that we're going to ban all Iranian
diplomats from entering the European Parliament. Not made to begin with,
all these comments that are coming out, they are so vague,
and at the same time, there are calls from Germany,
France and I think Australia too that they were calling
(30:02):
on the citizens that are in Iran, like tourists or whatever,
to immediately leave Iran. Yeah, this is also something that
we don't know, like Trump is not somebody that you
could trust. Yeah, ask people and Jia. And at the
same time, sorry, this is also important. There was also
some news that the Iranian authorities in the Foreign ministry
(30:25):
were trying or they contacted some people from Trump administration
for negotiations, but then Trump said that we will not
negotiate anything. So this is all like all these contradictions
that Trump is just talking about, and he's denying that
the regime is killing people and people are just being
(30:47):
killed because it's too crowded.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And then you see mainly like tweeting that everyone out
in the street is a Trump supporter, right, which is like,
that's useful to him, that narrative is useful to him,
that these are American imperialist or American whatever puppets.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, of course that has been the regime's behavior forever. Yeah,
whenever something happens, they immediately blame it on America, Israel.
I don't know UK budget. It's good that you mentioned
what company was saying. In the first few days. He
said that, yeah, we hear you the people in bazaar,
(31:25):
and yeah, we hear you, sorry that this is going on,
and things like that. But then he immediately said that
the people who are protesting, they are destroying everything and
we will deal with them in the harshest way. And
then the president of Iran, Pishkiki, and he also came
(31:45):
out and he said almost the same thing, and then
he started threatening people. And a few days after that,
the head of the judiciary, the Iranian judiciary came out
and said that like in a very very aggressive language,
he said that we will deal with you in the
worst ways possible, we will destroy you, and things like that.
(32:06):
It's he posted a lot of texts on his Twitter account.
His name is Moscid. So yeah, there is also like
a huge online fightings between these politicians and so called
leaders that makes the situation even more complicated and hard
to understand.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, I think from a US perspective, like when America
invaded a Rock, right, they had a partner force in Kurdistan.
When America worked in Syria, they had a partner force
again in Western Kurdistan. Like, they don't really have that here,
Like this is not really a I mean, the payarch
is still on the American Foreign Terrorist Organization list. It's
(32:48):
not like that like American sort of partner force boots
on the ground like that that they had these other places.
Likely what they would do is just bomb stuff. That's
kind of the approach it most likely here in it.
Bombing alone is unlikely to remove the regime.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, I think bombing with is definitely not enough because
they bombed They tried the regime hardly last year, but
it is still there. Of course, it was the regime
got weaker, like it weakened really bad. But at the
same time, like I think, if there's gonna be something,
(33:27):
and if there's gonna be something like Syria or Iraq.
I think the Americans or the American government would possibly
work with the Kurdish groups even though they are on
the so called terror list, like you know, it happened
in Rojova, in in in Syria. That's how they they've
been working with the Kurdish groups even though they're related
(33:47):
to PKK and PKK is on the terror.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Or they removed them that they did with HTS, right,
and then suddenly these guys they've transformed.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Now, yeah, so this could also happen, but we don't
know because it's been years. It's been decades that the
US is always threatening Iran and then something happens, then
they do nothing and it's just there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It reinforces the legitimacy of both states to threaten each other,
right and see each other's adversaries, and to a degree
use that for domestic violence against their own citizens, right,
or you know, terrorism stuff. I guess finally we should
just talk about one other thing that mainly said, which
is like that American and Israeli shipping would become legitimate
(34:34):
targets if you thought the Americans were involved, right, Just
to explain, this is the possibilities of people if they're
not familiar.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Well, this is not a new thing, to be honest.
They've won this before and in the previous years many times,
and there were times that they attacked some US bases,
like the one in Iraq, it's called Al Assad or
something like that. They fortunately they attacked it a few
times I guess in the past few years. Yeah, this
(35:05):
is also really complicated because how can I explain the
regime always does these threats and it might not do
it at all. But at the same time, this is
also something that I think that if the regime falls,
and if it's the last moments, they would probably try
(35:29):
to do something to damage the region or to damage
the people as much as they can, and then they
would just give up on everything and just disappear. So
they could do that. But if I want to go
back to to last year, we also need to understand
that after the Twelve Day War, Israel also destroyed a
(35:53):
massive amount of Iranian military basis and all these buildings
and structures. But still nobody don't truly understand how much
has been destroyed. But the Iranian air force is really
really weak right now. I'm apparently completely destroyed, so Iran
is not as strong as before. So there could be
(36:17):
a possibility that Iran actually doesn't have the capability to
attack US BASS across the region anymore. Yeah, So this
could be also a possibility that they are just threatening there.
They really don't have anything left anymore, or their military
capabilities are completely down.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, or they'll do that sort of symbolic send a
half dozen shah He drones and let the Americans shoot
them down and they say, oh, wow, we tried, or
you know, we we attack them, even though you know,
most of the time they have hurt a couple of
American people with them, but relatively unsuccessful. I wonder like
this is obvious a situation that people will want to follow.
(36:57):
Things are developing very quickly, and good news, good reporting
on Iran is very hard to find in America. So
where would you suggest people look Either you know, your
own stuff, or at the sources you suggest people should
look to.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
If I want to mention for obviously, I work with
a hangout organization. It's a trusted organization. People can follow them.
And there is also a journalist called Ali Jawan Mardi.
He is a supervisor at Voice of America. Kurdish, Persian
and Afghanistan, and these are like the sources that I
(37:32):
personally trust. There are other organizations such as Curtis and
Human Rights Network. There is also Iran Rights or Abdu
Rahan Buruman Center for Human Rights in Iran. There are
several organizations, human rights organizations that are constantly reporting and
they are trying to reflect what's happening, and there I
(37:56):
could say majority of them are honest and there are
not trying to push for a specific narrative, especially the Palabis,
because right now, if you check the media, the international media,
the Iranian media such as Iran International or BBC Persian
and all of these major medias even in the US,
(38:18):
they are pushing for the monarchist and they are completely
ignoring the other groups like, for example, the Kourdish people.
I said, I mentioned that there was this great and
big strike that happened in forty cities. It's a very
big social act, but barely anyone talked about it, Barely
(38:39):
anyone mentioned it. So I think it's for people, it's
better to follow human rights organizations and do not really
fall for the things that some media that are just
promoting a specific person because they're just taking away the truth. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to finish up.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
If people want to follow you, do you have any
social media or pace people can find your work.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I have my personal page, but it's not really big.
I just post some slides recently, and my other page
curtis signing people. It got disabled unfortunately, but then I
started again. Uh, I'm just posting like some updates and
like slides about the important things that I find. I
can also put the links there.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, we'll include them believe the podcast so people can
click on it.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us
this evening. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah,
it could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can now find sources for It Could Happen here,
(39:56):
listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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