April 22, 2026 • 39 mins
The wellness and health tech space is more crowded and confusing than ever – influencers are selling dubious health and beauty products and tech companies are developing wearables that track everything, from your sleep to your blood. Victoria Song, senior reviewer at The Verge, calls it the “wellness wild west.” Dexter talks to Victoria about the growing wellness trends online, the gray area between medical devices and wellness devices, and the mental health consequences of it all that no one talks about.
Hit us up: killswitch@kaleidoscope.nyc, or @killswitchpod and @dexdigi on IG or Bluesky.
Links:
- Victoria’s newsletter, Optimizer: https://www.theverge.com/optimizer-newsletter
- kill switch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@killswitch_pod
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You were just looking for ways to be healthy, and
all of a sudden you're getting gray market peptides from
China and injecting them into your body. So it's a
wild West out there and there's no real regulation going on.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Victoria's Song is a senior reviewer at The Verge. You
might remember her from our episode about the Meta ray Bands. Recently,
she's been writing about something that she calls the wellness
wild West.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Basically, wellness is just anything that's not medicine, right, you know,
stuff like breathing exercises or ag one which is athletic,
greens supplements, supplements of all kinds, and online people be
out here making some wild claims as wellness influencers.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I've honestly reverse aged myself using neuroscience and biohacking, and
I've had testing done.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
My biological age is eighteen, which was the youngest that
the scale would go. You're four ways to biohack your
body and truly feels superhuman.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
So this little guy right here is called NAD plus
and three days ago I started injecting it into my body.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Let me tell you why and what it does. And
a lot of times what they do is they hawk
a product, and then they will tell you something that's
sort of an actual fact, put it next to something
that's quite misleading. So you push a thought or an agenda,
and that's how you get people. You know, they're just
starting off with supplements and somehow they end up in fascism.
(01:35):
That's just basically kind of how the wellness wild Blest works.
You know, like you start off trying to eat clean,
and then all of a sudden you don't believe in vaccines.
You start off just looking for sunscreen, and then all
of a sudden, you're rubbing beef tallow all over your face.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
You can eat your skinkcare, you should not be putting
it on your face.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
The biggest question I get asked is how long did
it take to see results from your beef tallow? Because
this is where it started in January and this is
where I'm at now forty one.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I don't have any botox and fillers, no Guadalajara facelifts.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And it's very hard to tell fact from truth because
oftentimes these influencers are blending facts or distorting them in
a certain way. They're going to say this is scientifically backed,
this is clinically backed.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
At acre actually included the clinically studied amounts to be
fully effective.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's back by science. Okay, this is a twelve step
Korean skincare routine and a capsule, and like, what does
that mean? What does clinical testing mean for a supplement
that is not regulated? What does clinical testing mean for
a skincare gadget that is again not regulated.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
It's not just influencers getting into this new wild West.
Tech companies are making money here too. There's luxury shoe inserts,
hormone testing, kits Ai enabled treadmills. If you can strap
a device onto your wrists, or if you want to
go more official, you could embed it under your skin.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
The umbrella term for all of us is called longevity,
and it just funnels into this, like I think culturally
existential fear of dying, so we're gonna use our tech
to optimize ourselves so we live as long as possible.
And it's a very human desire. But tech do be
taking it to some extremes.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And Victoria's also taking it to some extremes here too.
She's not just reporting on it, she's actively testing some
of this stuff on herself.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
If you know anything about science journalism. If you know
anything about health tech, if you know anything about the space,
You're just sitting there and the internal screams just keep
getting louder as you see, see it proliferate.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So, in keeping with the wild West theme on this episode,
we're going to get into the good, the bad, and
the good. Lord, why would you inject that into your body?
Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is kill Switch. I'm Dexter Thomas, I'm.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Goodbye.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Victoria writes a newsletter called Optimizer, and one of her
recent installments was about the trip she took to this
year's Consumer Electronics Show or ce S. So ce S
is a big convention where companies announced all the latest
gadgets that are coming out this year. I remember I
used to look forward to this back in the day
because I can find out what new video games are
coming out. Needless to say, things have changed. Victoria's overall
(05:04):
impression of this year's CES, as she wrote in her newsletter,
was that it was quote a wash in bodily fluids.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's because there was a lot of bodily fluid tech
that was at the show. Like I saw a taint zapper,
which was a wearable that men put in their chaint
to help them delay premature ejaculation.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, sorry, we went right there. We went right there,
didn't we. I was gonna warm up and maybe talk
about that later. I was thinking, like, oh, let's save
that for the fun part of the end of the episode. No, okay, well,
let's go right into it. A taint zapper, please elaborate.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's a wearable band aid with an electrical component that
zap's you there to delay ejaculation. And is there scientific
proof that this works? I don't know. The FDA has
cleared it, so it's not going to harm you. They
did testing on rabbits to make sure it wasn't going
to rip off any sensitives down there. So cool. That's
(06:04):
one example of the wellness wild West. Another would be
like hormone testing gadgets. I wrote about this, like hormone
egg called mirror, and you basically pian a stick and
then you stick it in this little egg shaped machine
and it reads your hormones and you can not diagnose,
(06:25):
but it can like flag whether you show signs of
perimenopause or other various things.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And that thing that you did right there though, where
you said diagnose wait a second, not diagnose flag. That's
kind of a hallmark of all of this stuff, right,
is that it really feels like medical devices. And of
course they have the little disclaimer at the bottom, this
is not meant to treat or diagnose any disease or
anything like that, but I think people just kind of
(06:53):
ignore that. People look past it. You know. It's kind
of like looks like a duck, talks like a duck.
I think it's a duck.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So there's actually like a legal reason for that, and
it's because if anything is diagnostic or could inform your
medical treatment, that is a medical device and it requires
FDA regulatory oversight. Wellness does not. The definition legally is
that a wellness device is just for fun. It's just
for your education. It's for your entertainment so that you
know something about yourself. It's not diagnosing you with anything.
(07:22):
So that does not require FDA oversight. And the process
of FDA oversight is lengthy. It requires expensive testing. It
has to be hippocompliant. If it collects any data and
transmits it to your phone, all of that has to
have appropriate data security protocols. They have to test for
different skin colors is very expensive. Like I'm going to
(07:43):
use the tt zapper as an example. I first saw
it in twenty twenty. It didn't get FDA clearance until
like twenty twenty five, I believe, and they had to
go through two rounds of fundraising for millions of dollars
because the FDA was like, you're going to need clearance
for that, because that is a sense area that you're
proposing to stick a device onto. So a lot of
(08:05):
times with the wellness space is you have companies who
are trying to circumvent that. And a really good example
that happened recently, I think last summer was Whoop, which
is a fitness tracker company. They had this beta feature
which would kind of give you an estimate of your
blood pressure.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The all new Whoop is here, get the most advanced
view of your health with blood pressure insights right from
your wrist.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Now, the FDA was like, hold up, wait a second,
this requires FDA oversight, and Woop was like no, no, no, no,
no, no no, this is a wellness feature. And what was
in contention was like this beta feature you had to
kind of calibrate with a blood pressure cuff and then
once you calibrated in the app, it would kind of
give you an estimate of your systelic and diastolic blood
(08:55):
pressure and tell you whether it was high, medium, or low.
And the FDA was like, that is very close and
consumers could be you know, ostensibly misinterpreting those results as
a diagnosis of hypertension of being told that they have high.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Blood pressure if it's as high.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah. Right, So, like the design of that feature fits
in this very gray area that wellness devices kind of
live in at the moment, and you know Whoop was saying,
like the no, no, this is the same as us
telling you what your respiratory rate during sleep is. And
you know, they had the appropriate disclaimers there. They had
disclaimers saying this is not medical, this is not a diagnosis.
(09:34):
But I believe for the average consumer, they're going to
look at that and they're going to say, oh, no,
it's telling me I have high blood pressure. And because
it was calibrated with a cuff, it must be accurate.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, because that feels and looks probably just like the
same exact thing that you use at the doctor's office.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
The twenty first Century Cures Act makes it very clear
that wellness intended features are not supposed to be regulated
by the FDA.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's the CEO of Whoop in an interview with Bloomberg
explaining why he thinks his device does not need FDA approval.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
And the FDA is intended to actually just regulate medical
devices that are diagnosing something. So then the fundamental question
becomes does blood pressure have wellness intended use cases? We
believe it does.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Once you understand the legal framework of what is an
FDA cleared medical device versus a wellness gadget, you can
start to see it and that in the features that
these tech companies will release, like for the Apple Watch,
they'll never give you a direct reading of what it
thinks your blood pressure is. It'll tell you where you're trending.
So in truths, by not giving you the reading and
(10:45):
saying you're trending this way, that's a wellness feature. So
it's the very difference between flagging something and diagnosing you
with something.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
This medical versus wellness gray area is a big part
of how this entire industry is even able to function.
And the biggest trend right now is well trends. See
in the past, you could get some simple devices that
would give you a basic number, like say a step counter,
We'll just tell you how many steps you took during
that day. But now it's all about getting as much
data as possible and putting all that data into a
(11:17):
phone app that'll show you a graph and then interpret
that data for you. It can't show you a diagnosis,
because legally that would be a problem, but it can
show you a trend, which means that analyzing your health
is no longer dependent on a doctor. Maybe you think
that's a good thing, maybe you think it's a bad thing,
But it also means that you're going to be handing
over a lot of information to some company and you
(11:39):
just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
It's your blood, it's your sweat, it's your hormones. They
want to track all of these things like blood tests
like AURA and WHOOP for example, will now partner with
Quest Diagnostics, so you can upload your blood test results tracing. However,
many biomarkers into their platform. When you start doing that,
when you start taking a withvings at home, PP lab
(12:06):
in installing it in your toilet so it can tell you.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Pause PP Sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's called the U scan. It isn't at home. Your
analysis lab. It has cartridges in it, and it can
tell you your hydration levels or your like vitamin C
levels and you know it EPI it. Yeah. And for
some people who have specific conditions, like maybe you have
polycystic overy syndrome and you kind of want more information
(12:35):
about your hormones so you can talk to your doctor.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's when you get
to the sense of marketing and telling everybody you need
to do this. Everyone needs to have an at home
lab on them at all points in time. And like
the kind of the umbrella term for this what I
call the wellness surveillance state, because I find it very
(12:55):
invasive that these companies want not just your activity data,
but your blood and your blood sugar and your metabolic
data and your urine and your sweat, and they want
to know about your cycle. You know, once you give
these companies your data, who's reading the data privacy policies?
Right when you have wellness versus medical device, where does
(13:18):
that fall under HIPPA? Which is grossly outdated for health
tech in the state that we're in right now, it's
very murky because let's say you trust Apple with your
period data. And then you sink Apple period data with Aura. Well,
you've just given that to Aura, so now you have
to agree to their privacy policies in terms you have
(13:40):
to so it's not one device you trust them. It
gets very murky very quickly. You know. The very dystopian
fear is that corporate wellness programs start putting these things
out to give you discounts on healthcare and then finding oh,
will raise your premium but not the other person is premium.
(14:00):
There's no evidence that that's happened yet, but that is
the fear, right, This is.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
A legitimate fear, and companies seem to at least be
aware of this. In the case of Whoop, their privacy
policy states, quote, we never sell our members personal data.
This is our promise end quote. And yet they're currently
facing a class action lawsuit from a user who claims
their data was shared with a third party without consent,
and a peer reviewed study found that Whoop exhibited quote
(14:28):
substantive deficiencies and privacy protection in quote despite having the
longest privacy policy in the study, coming in at over
twelve thousand words for reference. That is longer than the
transcript of this entire episode. So just think of that
as you listen to the rest of the show.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
The more invasive these things get, the greater the fear
as to like, well, how is that data being used?
And can you trust these companies to protect your data?
Like Aura had a bit of a backlash last year
because they announced a partnership with Palenteer.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
People are throwing away their or rings because Aura just
signed a deal with the US Department of Defense and Palenteer. Palenteers.
Kind of like those movies where they scan someone's face
and all of the person's information pops up, That's what
Palenteer does.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
They were working with Palenteer and the DoD for a
specific set of enterprise use for their ring. They were
saying that they kept that data separate from consumer data.
But to the average consumer, that's just like, well, what
the hell does that mean? You keep them in separate
data silos? Like do you trust that company?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But hold on, speaking of which I've seen you move
in your hands, Is that an AURA ring?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, this is an Aura ring. It is I do
have to test it for a living. I have come
to terms in peace that my data is out there,
Like I cannot test wearable tech and not have it
out there. I just live with that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Talk to me about that, though, because a lot of
people say that exact same thing, which is to say,
my dad is already out there. If they want it,
they can come get it. But you're actively going out
and finding this stuff that is the most privacy invading possible,
and you're saying, cool, sign me up. It's for your job.
But what a job? Does that make you nervous at all?
Speaker 7 (16:11):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And my mom really nervous when she was alive. She
kind of begged me to find a different line of work.
But uh, really, yeah, she did. She was very concerned
about it. But I have limits as to how invasive
I will be willing to go. Like I'm not ever
going to test a BCI, which is a brain computer
interface like neurrolink. I'm not doing that. Like that's a
(16:33):
little too invasive for me. It's a conversation I have
with my editors too. If it feels too invasive for me,
I am just not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Victoria has a pretty high bar for it too invasive,
So if she won't touch it, I think that's saying something.
On the other hand, there are people who will inject
gray market substances into their body because somebody on TikTok
told them to do it, And honestly, some of the
comment sections from unsatisfied customers get pretty weird. After the break,
(17:02):
Victoria takes us into the affiliate influencer code industrial complex. So,
in terms of the wellness wild West, we've talked about
wearables a lot. Not everything you're putting on your body.
Some of you are putting in your body. Tell me
(17:23):
about ratatoui.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Oh okay, So ratitui is kind of a code word
that wellness influencers and fitness influencers use for Reta True
Tide ret A True tide is. It gets real technical,
but it is kind of the latest if G LP
one medications for Pokemon. This is the latest evolution of
the Pokemon char Charizard.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
This is the we gov chars are we go ament?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
All right?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, so you know Ozambic will go v that's the Charmander, right.
Then you have Munjaro and zep found that is the Charmelion,
and Reta truetide is Charizard. It is also unapproved. It
is currently going through Phase three clinical trials. The only
way to get the bona fide Reta truetide is if
(18:16):
you are part of a clinical trial run by Eli Lilly.
That is the only way. While the influencers are out
there like I'm on Ritta, I'm on Ratatu. Wee, here's
my crazy insane wellness results.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
Update that nobody asked for.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I just finished my fourth week of Ratatu week, and
I say this, it's amazing.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
Twenty five pounds in four weeks. My strength is basically
the same. I've lost zero muscle and I did this
while eating pizza and canes and drinking alcohol every day,
so safe to say it works.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Today is actually my first official day working out on Ritta.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's like insane. I'm fastard right now. I had so
much energy, I got all my cardio done. Like literally,
just get on it. You have nothing to lose. And
they will say it's past phase three clinical trials. No, no, no, no.
There are like I believe seven or eight clinical trials
that are ongoing in phase three and they've completed one
(19:17):
of those trials and we don't even have the full
results of that particular trial yet. We have the top
line results of it. But you know they're out there
saying it's totally fine. It's safe, and then they'll say
something that's true, which is our healthcare system sucks and
that the insurance companies are charging a crap ton of
money for these JLP one medications that could really change
(19:41):
your life. They don't want you to have it.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
It is your reminder that REDDA will be if I
proved by twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Seven, So find a way to get it now before
they start charge thousand dollars for a one supply.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Here's my affiliate code. I have vetted this particular lab
that's selling research grade Red A True Tide.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Check the link in my bio.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You can get yourself some or shoot me a DM
we can talk about it.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I've done a ton of research on it.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
If you're struggling to lose weight, I highly recommend you
look into taking Red A True Tide. If you want
to pick some up from a trusted source, I have
link in my bio.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You can buy it on TikTok in five minutes. I did.
I bought a vial and like five minutes to prove
a point, I had a ten percent influencer affiliate code discount.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you actually bought this, and so this is something
anybody can be doing.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
On TikTok's something anybody can do. On TikTok, you'll find
influencers going like, here's how you reconstitute rehdta, because they're
not selling it to you. When you get actual GLP
one prescriptions from the doctor, you're probably getting pens where
it's pre mixed and you just like inject it. It's
the appropriate dosage. You are going to see a doctor
every month to talk about your levels and py trading
(20:54):
your dose, talking about side effects and managing those symptoms
with rehta. Right now, you're geting some guy on TikTok
who's not a real doctor saying like, yeah, you should
use two point five grams, and here's how you use
an online peptide calculator, and here's how you reconstitute Amazon
(21:14):
link in my bio to buy syringes that I use.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
You just got your ratitude and you're confused on how
to reconstitute it. I'm going to break it down as
simply as possible so even your grandma could understand this.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I just opened this individually wrapped in slin syringe. I
pulled some airback into it, and I am going to
puncture the top of the backwater and then push some
of that air in. And by the way, this is
not medical advice. This is for research and entertainment purposes only.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
They are buying syringes off of Amazon. They are buying
bacteriostatic water off of wherever, which is sterilized water, and
they are mixing these things themselves, and they are injecting
it to their bodies. And then you read the comments
and they're like, I got like a huge rash from
the injection side. Is that normal? I'm vobbiting my brains
out because they didn't dost properly. Are they actually injecting
(22:09):
reta true tide into their bodies. I've talked to pharmacists,
I've talked to doctors and anercrinologists, and they're just like,
ain no fucking way, excuse the French, ain't no way
that that's the real reta true tide. You do not
know what you are injecting, you don't know what it's
cut with. And they're saying, like, get third party testing
(22:30):
to verify. Well, why how are you trusting a third
party lab when there is no Like usually pharmacists and
compound pharmacies have like a sheet that kind of tells
them here the active pharmaceutical ingredients, here's the sourcing. FDA
have come out and said we don't have those available
for reta true Tide. There's like a warning letter that
(22:51):
was put out, so I don't know that these people
are actually injecting retitrue tide into their bodies. And you
have really irresponsible wellness influencers out here who are just like,
here's why you need to mix tures appetide and read
a true tide. Chirs appetite is majaro and z that bound.
Here's how you mix them. Yeah, here's how you mix them.
You microdose with this and then you microdose with that.
(23:12):
And it's sort of just like, no, oh, that's so
easy to find on TikTok. It is not hard to
find these videos.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Why I'm taking truzetpetide and read a True Tide together, guys.
And actually this picture last year was just truzepetite, So
can you imagine how much better this is about to be?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Speaking of what's easy to find on TikTok, though, I
want to hit you with a counterpoint from the TikTok comments,
which is a sentence I thought I'd never say, but
let me just read some of the comments. So here
we go. The FDA needs to keep an eye on
the disgusting ingredients that they put in food and on
artificial food and leave GLP alone. Another one our food
(23:52):
is straight out poisoned. So it's not about safety, it's
about competition. And the last come out I want to
read is that's fine, China got us covered because a
lot of these peptides are coming from China. Not that
I'm advocating that, Oh, it was much better when we
were all just really xenophobic and terrible and racist, but
it's kind of wild to hear that somebody trusts a
(24:13):
random influencer who is selling them stuff from a place
that they don't really know much about, rather than the FDA.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, that's kind of where this is so insidious, because
you know, you have something that's very true, right, which
is that Eli Lilly Norvoonordisk they have basically patented these
DLP ones and they want to charge what they want
to charge for it, And the insurance companies are like,
these are hala expensive. We're going to put very restrictive
(24:43):
conditions onto who can get these. But you know, you
have a lot of people who could potentially benefit from
these medications. There's a lot of research being done about that.
And so we live in a fat phobic society, and
you have a lot of people who are just very
desperate who could benefit from the medications, who are being told,
for arbitrary reasons, you can't get it or you're going
(25:06):
to have to pay one thousand dollars a month for it.
So there's a grain of truth there that they're digging into.
But then they go and say, oh, yeah, so the
FDA doesn't care about you. The FDA exists because people
died all of these regulations, and the drug approval process
exists because people died in the past when we didn't
have these regulations. But you can see how insidious it
(25:29):
gets because you take something that is very true, that
is very emotionally true, that is just like in capitalism,
very true that these drug companies want to make money
and our healthcare system sucks, and we're going to put
it with you shouldn't trust healthcare institutions. And this influencer
is here and you have a parasocial relationship with them.
They're using words like science backed, clinically backed. You're not
(25:51):
thinking about the fact that they are profiting off of
selling these peptides to you. They get a cut from
the affiliate code. It keeps me up at night. Honestly,
it's tough. It's tough to watch it happen. And you know,
I write about it, and then I get called the
big pharmachell like you're defending the big farmer companies, Like yeah, yeah,
I've had commenters tell me I am a big Pharmachelle
(26:13):
and it's like, no, I just don't want you to
put an approved drug sourced from God knows where into
your body. I agree with you that the affordability thing
is a problem. I think it's wrong, and there does
need to be regulatory overalls, and the pharmaceutical companies do
need to be held accountable for being so greedy. But
for God's sake, can we have like critical thinking skills
(26:35):
and not inchect something that you bought dubiously offline into
your bodies using sypringes. When I challenge you, I challenge
you to find an influencer who is properly disinfecting everything
the surfaces, using gloves, washing their hands before they disinfect things.
When they teach you how to reconstitute these gray market
(26:57):
peptides because I asked a pharmacist and she was like,
oh no, they are missing several steps. So oh no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, we should probably acknowledge why this wellness wild West
exists in the first place. Part of it in the US,
at least, is the high cost of healthcare. If you're
worried about being able to afford to see a doctor,
you might also want to look for an alternative. There
is also another factor here. People want to be liked,
and there is money to be made and telling people
(27:25):
that we would like them more if they just looked
a little younger, or a little thinner, or a little prettier.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And I think we don't talk about it a lot
because regardless if you lose weight for whatever reason, people
will praise you. So you could have lost weight through
very toxic behaviors, but many people in your life meaning
well will say, great job, keep it going.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
We've been talking about doing stuff to your body. Victoria
has gone far enof down this rabbit hole. To know
what this stuff can do to your mind, begin into
that after the break. So just to be clear here,
influencers aren't just recommending weird injectables to their followers. One
(28:14):
trend is based on actual, tested, legitimate medical technology. It's
just that technology isn't really meant for consumer use. I'm
talking here about a continuous glucose monitor or CGM. So
these are small devices that are inserted under the skin,
and they're originally developed for people with diabetes to monitor
their glucose levels. But now you can just buy these
(28:35):
things over the counter, and wellness influencers are encouraging people
to use them to track their metabolism.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
There's influencers who will tell you that you have to
optimize your metabolism, one of them being a potential Surgeon
General candidate, Casey Means, who co founded a CGM company
and has a book called Good Energy about metabolic dysfunction
being the root cause of all everything in your life.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
What's really important for people to realize is that metabolism
is actually the foundation of all health. It is the
core foundational pathway that drives all other aspects of health.
And so one thing that the glucose monitors for us
is just give us more awareness and agency into what
(29:24):
the trends of our glucose are over time, as opposed
to a literally one data point snapshot once a year
in the doctor's office, which is what the majority of
us are used to.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So you know, they are saying like, oh, if you're
an athlete, you could use the CGM, or if you're
trying to lose weight, there are weight loss CGM startups
that are like, oh, this is the easiest way for
you to lose weight is to monitor everything you eat
and see how it spikes your glucose.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
I want to share with you some of my worst offenders,
my worst glucose offenders.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Calm the magnesium drink.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
I drink that every single night.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It spiked my glucose significant Also, what spike my glucose
by melatonin.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Guns And then you know, you kind of fall into
this mental trap of wanting your glucose to stay within
this range when it's perfectly normal. I have talked to many, many,
many endocrinologists and diabetic experts who are like, it's perfectly
natural and normal for your blood glucose to spike above
(30:25):
that level and then it'll fall back down into the
normal level. But you have influencers out here who are
kind of gamifying staying within a specific range at all time.
And is that useful? I don't know that that's useful.
Like I've used them. I found out that I had
fatty liver disease through the use of one, but not
(30:46):
before I got really scared that I was diabetic because
my results were not looking the way that they should.
And it took me, i want to say, about a
year and a half at a very long time. So
did I have a positive experience from using a CGM
and testing them through my job. I think the experience
was really mixed because it made food eating very contentious for.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
A while for me.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
What do you mean, I'd be at Thanksgiving and I'd
be like, oh, can I eat that in this order?
Or will it spike my glucose That's very kind of
borderline disordered eating thoughts. It's not the end of the
world if you're glucose spikes. Like I know all of
this stuff already. That doesn't mean I wasn't prone to
falling into those mental traps if I was using it
(31:32):
too often.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You know, I recently interviewed a philosopher who studies games
and also gamification, and this optimization thing comes right into
that because SAE, even not as far as you know,
glucose monitoring, let's say, just weight loss tracking, sticking to
(31:54):
macros or you know, calorie counting can be productive for
some people, but it can also get you into a
point where you're not enjoying anything you're eating, or where
you're just literally like eating pizza or eating prepackaged food
because you know the exact calories that are in it,
(32:15):
because you're starting to focus only on the numbers. And
this is something that I find really interesting about the
wearable tech that you talk about so much and that
you cover, is that there's a way in which we've
kind of been sold the idea that the more you track,
the better it is. You know, what's measured gets managed. Right, Yeah,
(32:38):
sure that's not untrue, but there's a way in which
it can kind of make you sick in another way,
incredibly maybe mentally.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh, health anxiety and wearables, it is the dark side
of it. There was a study done and they found
that this elderly woman did like nine hundred kg readings
in a year because she got so scared. And that's hm,
that's more than one a day, right. I think about
that study all the time, because I actually write about
(33:07):
it quite often at the verge where I say I
have mandatory wearable breaks if I find myself getting two
into streaks. If I find myself falling into these habits
of perfectionism, I will take a break. I'll talk to
my editors and be like, I'm going to focus on
a different type of product for a little bit because
it's impacting my mental health that way. And I have
(33:28):
found those techniques for like ten years of covering this space,
and so I hope to share that wisdom with people,
but it is anxiety inducing. I do find myself falling
into some traps at times, and perfectionism type a personality.
What say you, I think a lot of us have that.
(33:49):
I think it's very human to be that way. And
let's be real. You are the product in a wearable life.
It's not just health, it's also AI. The reason why
they are pushing this concept of AI wearables right now
is that you don't take a wearable off. They can
collect so much data on you. They can say it's
(34:10):
personalizing your health feeds into this optimization longevity narrative, and
what they're really doing is profiting off of all the
data that they're collecting on you. Because you are the product.
You make the AI better because you're wearing it, and
the AI learned so much more about you because you're
wearing it.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
This is your job, Like you're actually in the trenches
testing just about everything. I mean, you're basically running like
a twenty four to seven experiment on yourself. Yeah, all
of these different things. What would you say to somebody
who is thinking about picking up that or a ring,
(34:46):
or who's thinking about subscribing to that service where you
get blood tests and you send it away, or who's
thinking about getting some other kind of wearable or wellness device.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
All anyone wants is to live a healthy life. That
It's very simple, right, What are the keys to a
healthy life? Every doctor will tell you it's the same
three things, the same three things. No one's going to
want to hear this, but it is the same three things.
Sleep seven to eight hours a night, eat balanced meals,
exercise multiple times a week. That's it. That is what
(35:19):
is in your control. But nobody likes to hear that,
and we all want shortcuts. So it's a very like
I joke that my beat is the cursed beat, the
dystopian beat. But you know, I initially got into it
because I do was trying to live a healthier life.
And then I do live a healthier life. I do.
(35:39):
I'm pretty much in the best shape and health I've
been ever. But it's not to say that it didn't
come at a cost. It did come at a cost,
a lot of cost to my mental health. I talk
with a therapist very frequently anytime I think of myself
just kind of going off the deep end with these devices,
and then she'll be like, I think it's time you
(36:01):
take a break, And I'm like, you're right. Let me
go talk to my editors about that. So what I
would say to anyone who is thinking about it is
to really go in with a strong why, Like why
do you want it? What is the goal that you're
trying to achieve. If your goal is that you want
something to help you be more active, get the minimally
(36:24):
viable thing to help you get more active. If you
think a or a ring is that for you because
it has no screen, you just want to do your
general fitness tracking great, try to limit yourself to checking
once a day. You know, don't get too invested in
these numbers. It's about seeing baseline trends over a long
period of time. If you feel yourself starting to change
(36:48):
your life to fit the ring, give yourself permission to
take breaks from it. Like at one point, I was like,
I got to close these rings. It's eleven forty five.
Let me do jumping jacks at forty five pm so
I can get the ten calories needed to close a ring.
You need a break, You need a break. I know
people who have done this. I know people who have
(37:10):
been like I have COVID. Do you think I should
go outside for like a fifteen minute walk so I
can close a ring? And I've had friends say that
to me. Do you like, do you think I should
do this? And I'm like, no, you need to rest,
Like that's insane.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I haven't used one of these enclosed the ring. It's
like finish your numbers for the day or something.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, So the Apple Watch just you have three different
rings for like how many exercise minutes you get during
the day, how many minutes you stand up, and how
many calories you burn in the day. First of all,
I'll also say that calorie burn and calorie metrics are
wildly inaccurate, So don't get too obsessive about any of
these numbers. These are tools meant to help you. It's
(37:53):
just you know, you got to have a good support network.
You've got to have a very strong reason why and
kind of stick to that reason why and use the
minimally viable methods. You do not need more data. Like
I said, the three tellers are two sleeps, eight hours tonight,
(38:16):
eat it all balanced meal most of the time, and
exercise like.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
That's it, all right, doctor song, All right, doctor.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I'm not a doctor, but I am telling you that
all doctors will tell you to do that.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
So yeah, big thank you to Victoria for coming back
on the show, and thanks to you for listening to
kill Switch. And by the way, we talked a little
bit about peptides in this episode. If you want to
know more about what exactly peptides are and where they're
coming from and who's using these things, we got a
whole episode about that and we'll link that in the description.
(38:47):
Or if you want to know something else, you can
email us at kill Switch at kaleidoscope dot NYC or
on Instagram. We're at kill Switch Pod and wherever you're
listening to this, it would be amazing If you leave
the show a review. It helps other people find the show,
which helps us keep doing our thing. And this thing
is hosted by me Dexter Thomas. It's produced by Sena Ozaki,
(39:08):
dar Luck Potts and Julia Nutter. Our theme song is
by Me and Kyle Murdoch and Kyle also mixed the show.
From Kaleidoscope, Our executive producers are Ozwalashin, Mangeshati Gadour, and
Kate Osborne. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvil
and Nikki E.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Tour.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Catch on the Next One, Goodbye,
You were just looking for ways to be healthy, and
all of a sudden you're getting gray market peptides from
China and injecting them into your body. So it's a
wild West out there and there's no real regulation going on.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Victoria's Song is a senior reviewer at The Verge. You
might remember her from our episode about the Meta ray Bands. Recently,
she's been writing about something that she calls the wellness
wild West.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Basically, wellness is just anything that's not medicine, right, you know,
stuff like breathing exercises or ag one which is athletic,
greens supplements, supplements of all kinds, and online people be
out here making some wild claims as wellness influencers.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I've honestly reverse aged myself using neuroscience and biohacking, and
I've had testing done.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
My biological age is eighteen, which was the youngest that
the scale would go. You're four ways to biohack your
body and truly feels superhuman.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
So this little guy right here is called NAD plus
and three days ago I started injecting it into my body.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Let me tell you why and what it does. And
a lot of times what they do is they hawk
a product, and then they will tell you something that's
sort of an actual fact, put it next to something
that's quite misleading. So you push a thought or an agenda,
and that's how you get people. You know, they're just
starting off with supplements and somehow they end up in fascism.
(01:35):
That's just basically kind of how the wellness wild Blest works.
You know, like you start off trying to eat clean,
and then all of a sudden you don't believe in vaccines.
You start off just looking for sunscreen, and then all
of a sudden, you're rubbing beef tallow all over your face.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
You can eat your skinkcare, you should not be putting
it on your face.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
The biggest question I get asked is how long did
it take to see results from your beef tallow? Because
this is where it started in January and this is
where I'm at now forty one.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I don't have any botox and fillers, no Guadalajara facelifts.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And it's very hard to tell fact from truth because
oftentimes these influencers are blending facts or distorting them in
a certain way. They're going to say this is scientifically backed,
this is clinically backed.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
At acre actually included the clinically studied amounts to be
fully effective.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's back by science. Okay, this is a twelve step
Korean skincare routine and a capsule, and like, what does
that mean? What does clinical testing mean for a supplement
that is not regulated? What does clinical testing mean for
a skincare gadget that is again not regulated.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
It's not just influencers getting into this new wild West.
Tech companies are making money here too. There's luxury shoe inserts,
hormone testing, kits Ai enabled treadmills. If you can strap
a device onto your wrists, or if you want to
go more official, you could embed it under your skin.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
The umbrella term for all of us is called longevity,
and it just funnels into this, like I think culturally
existential fear of dying, so we're gonna use our tech
to optimize ourselves so we live as long as possible.
And it's a very human desire. But tech do be
taking it to some extremes.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And Victoria's also taking it to some extremes here too.
She's not just reporting on it, she's actively testing some
of this stuff on herself.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
If you know anything about science journalism. If you know
anything about health tech, if you know anything about the space,
You're just sitting there and the internal screams just keep
getting louder as you see, see it proliferate.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So, in keeping with the wild West theme on this episode,
we're going to get into the good, the bad, and
the good. Lord, why would you inject that into your body?
Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is kill Switch. I'm Dexter Thomas, I'm.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Goodbye.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Victoria writes a newsletter called Optimizer, and one of her
recent installments was about the trip she took to this
year's Consumer Electronics Show or ce S. So ce S
is a big convention where companies announced all the latest
gadgets that are coming out this year. I remember I
used to look forward to this back in the day
because I can find out what new video games are
coming out. Needless to say, things have changed. Victoria's overall
(05:04):
impression of this year's CES, as she wrote in her newsletter,
was that it was quote a wash in bodily fluids.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's because there was a lot of bodily fluid tech
that was at the show. Like I saw a taint zapper,
which was a wearable that men put in their chaint
to help them delay premature ejaculation.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, sorry, we went right there. We went right there,
didn't we. I was gonna warm up and maybe talk
about that later. I was thinking, like, oh, let's save
that for the fun part of the end of the episode. No, okay, well,
let's go right into it. A taint zapper, please elaborate.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's a wearable band aid with an electrical component that
zap's you there to delay ejaculation. And is there scientific
proof that this works? I don't know. The FDA has
cleared it, so it's not going to harm you. They
did testing on rabbits to make sure it wasn't going
to rip off any sensitives down there. So cool. That's
(06:04):
one example of the wellness wild West. Another would be
like hormone testing gadgets. I wrote about this, like hormone
egg called mirror, and you basically pian a stick and
then you stick it in this little egg shaped machine
and it reads your hormones and you can not diagnose,
(06:25):
but it can like flag whether you show signs of
perimenopause or other various things.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And that thing that you did right there though, where
you said diagnose wait a second, not diagnose flag. That's
kind of a hallmark of all of this stuff, right,
is that it really feels like medical devices. And of
course they have the little disclaimer at the bottom, this
is not meant to treat or diagnose any disease or
anything like that, but I think people just kind of
(06:53):
ignore that. People look past it. You know. It's kind
of like looks like a duck, talks like a duck.
I think it's a duck.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So there's actually like a legal reason for that, and
it's because if anything is diagnostic or could inform your
medical treatment, that is a medical device and it requires
FDA regulatory oversight. Wellness does not. The definition legally is
that a wellness device is just for fun. It's just
for your education. It's for your entertainment so that you
know something about yourself. It's not diagnosing you with anything.
(07:22):
So that does not require FDA oversight. And the process
of FDA oversight is lengthy. It requires expensive testing. It
has to be hippocompliant. If it collects any data and
transmits it to your phone, all of that has to
have appropriate data security protocols. They have to test for
different skin colors is very expensive. Like I'm going to
(07:43):
use the tt zapper as an example. I first saw
it in twenty twenty. It didn't get FDA clearance until
like twenty twenty five, I believe, and they had to
go through two rounds of fundraising for millions of dollars
because the FDA was like, you're going to need clearance
for that, because that is a sense area that you're
proposing to stick a device onto. So a lot of
(08:05):
times with the wellness space is you have companies who
are trying to circumvent that. And a really good example
that happened recently, I think last summer was Whoop, which
is a fitness tracker company. They had this beta feature
which would kind of give you an estimate of your
blood pressure.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The all new Whoop is here, get the most advanced
view of your health with blood pressure insights right from
your wrist.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Now, the FDA was like, hold up, wait a second,
this requires FDA oversight, and Woop was like no, no, no, no,
no, no no, this is a wellness feature. And what was
in contention was like this beta feature you had to
kind of calibrate with a blood pressure cuff and then
once you calibrated in the app, it would kind of
give you an estimate of your systelic and diastolic blood
(08:55):
pressure and tell you whether it was high, medium, or low.
And the FDA was like, that is very close and
consumers could be you know, ostensibly misinterpreting those results as
a diagnosis of hypertension of being told that they have high.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Blood pressure if it's as high.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah. Right, So, like the design of that feature fits
in this very gray area that wellness devices kind of
live in at the moment, and you know Whoop was saying,
like the no, no, this is the same as us
telling you what your respiratory rate during sleep is. And
you know, they had the appropriate disclaimers there. They had
disclaimers saying this is not medical, this is not a diagnosis.
(09:34):
But I believe for the average consumer, they're going to
look at that and they're going to say, oh, no,
it's telling me I have high blood pressure. And because
it was calibrated with a cuff, it must be accurate.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, because that feels and looks probably just like the
same exact thing that you use at the doctor's office.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
The twenty first Century Cures Act makes it very clear
that wellness intended features are not supposed to be regulated
by the FDA.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's the CEO of Whoop in an interview with Bloomberg
explaining why he thinks his device does not need FDA approval.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
And the FDA is intended to actually just regulate medical
devices that are diagnosing something. So then the fundamental question
becomes does blood pressure have wellness intended use cases? We
believe it does.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Once you understand the legal framework of what is an
FDA cleared medical device versus a wellness gadget, you can
start to see it and that in the features that
these tech companies will release, like for the Apple Watch,
they'll never give you a direct reading of what it
thinks your blood pressure is. It'll tell you where you're trending.
So in truths, by not giving you the reading and
(10:45):
saying you're trending this way, that's a wellness feature. So
it's the very difference between flagging something and diagnosing you
with something.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
This medical versus wellness gray area is a big part
of how this entire industry is even able to function.
And the biggest trend right now is well trends. See
in the past, you could get some simple devices that
would give you a basic number, like say a step counter,
We'll just tell you how many steps you took during
that day. But now it's all about getting as much
data as possible and putting all that data into a
(11:17):
phone app that'll show you a graph and then interpret
that data for you. It can't show you a diagnosis,
because legally that would be a problem, but it can
show you a trend, which means that analyzing your health
is no longer dependent on a doctor. Maybe you think
that's a good thing, maybe you think it's a bad thing,
But it also means that you're going to be handing
over a lot of information to some company and you
(11:39):
just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
It's your blood, it's your sweat, it's your hormones. They
want to track all of these things like blood tests
like AURA and WHOOP for example, will now partner with
Quest Diagnostics, so you can upload your blood test results tracing. However,
many biomarkers into their platform. When you start doing that,
when you start taking a withvings at home, PP lab
(12:06):
in installing it in your toilet so it can tell you.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Pause PP Sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's called the U scan. It isn't at home. Your
analysis lab. It has cartridges in it, and it can
tell you your hydration levels or your like vitamin C
levels and you know it EPI it. Yeah. And for
some people who have specific conditions, like maybe you have
polycystic overy syndrome and you kind of want more information
(12:35):
about your hormones so you can talk to your doctor.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's when you get
to the sense of marketing and telling everybody you need
to do this. Everyone needs to have an at home
lab on them at all points in time. And like
the kind of the umbrella term for this what I
call the wellness surveillance state, because I find it very
(12:55):
invasive that these companies want not just your activity data,
but your blood and your blood sugar and your metabolic
data and your urine and your sweat, and they want
to know about your cycle. You know, once you give
these companies your data, who's reading the data privacy policies?
Right when you have wellness versus medical device, where does
(13:18):
that fall under HIPPA? Which is grossly outdated for health
tech in the state that we're in right now, it's
very murky because let's say you trust Apple with your
period data. And then you sink Apple period data with Aura. Well,
you've just given that to Aura, so now you have
to agree to their privacy policies in terms you have
(13:40):
to so it's not one device you trust them. It
gets very murky very quickly. You know. The very dystopian
fear is that corporate wellness programs start putting these things
out to give you discounts on healthcare and then finding oh,
will raise your premium but not the other person is premium.
(14:00):
There's no evidence that that's happened yet, but that is
the fear, right, This is.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
A legitimate fear, and companies seem to at least be
aware of this. In the case of Whoop, their privacy
policy states, quote, we never sell our members personal data.
This is our promise end quote. And yet they're currently
facing a class action lawsuit from a user who claims
their data was shared with a third party without consent,
and a peer reviewed study found that Whoop exhibited quote
(14:28):
substantive deficiencies and privacy protection in quote despite having the
longest privacy policy in the study, coming in at over
twelve thousand words for reference. That is longer than the
transcript of this entire episode. So just think of that
as you listen to the rest of the show.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
The more invasive these things get, the greater the fear
as to like, well, how is that data being used?
And can you trust these companies to protect your data?
Like Aura had a bit of a backlash last year
because they announced a partnership with Palenteer.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
People are throwing away their or rings because Aura just
signed a deal with the US Department of Defense and Palenteer. Palenteers.
Kind of like those movies where they scan someone's face
and all of the person's information pops up, That's what
Palenteer does.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
They were working with Palenteer and the DoD for a
specific set of enterprise use for their ring. They were
saying that they kept that data separate from consumer data.
But to the average consumer, that's just like, well, what
the hell does that mean? You keep them in separate
data silos? Like do you trust that company?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But hold on, speaking of which I've seen you move
in your hands, Is that an AURA ring?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, this is an Aura ring. It is I do
have to test it for a living. I have come
to terms in peace that my data is out there,
Like I cannot test wearable tech and not have it
out there. I just live with that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Talk to me about that, though, because a lot of
people say that exact same thing, which is to say,
my dad is already out there. If they want it,
they can come get it. But you're actively going out
and finding this stuff that is the most privacy invading possible,
and you're saying, cool, sign me up. It's for your job.
But what a job? Does that make you nervous at all?
Speaker 7 (16:11):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And my mom really nervous when she was alive. She
kind of begged me to find a different line of work.
But uh, really, yeah, she did. She was very concerned
about it. But I have limits as to how invasive
I will be willing to go. Like I'm not ever
going to test a BCI, which is a brain computer
interface like neurrolink. I'm not doing that. Like that's a
(16:33):
little too invasive for me. It's a conversation I have
with my editors too. If it feels too invasive for me,
I am just not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Victoria has a pretty high bar for it too invasive,
So if she won't touch it, I think that's saying something.
On the other hand, there are people who will inject
gray market substances into their body because somebody on TikTok
told them to do it, And honestly, some of the
comment sections from unsatisfied customers get pretty weird. After the break,
(17:02):
Victoria takes us into the affiliate influencer code industrial complex. So,
in terms of the wellness wild West, we've talked about
wearables a lot. Not everything you're putting on your body.
Some of you are putting in your body. Tell me
(17:23):
about ratatoui.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Oh okay, So ratitui is kind of a code word
that wellness influencers and fitness influencers use for Reta True
Tide ret A True tide is. It gets real technical,
but it is kind of the latest if G LP
one medications for Pokemon. This is the latest evolution of
the Pokemon char Charizard.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
This is the we gov chars are we go ament?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
All right?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, so you know Ozambic will go v that's the Charmander, right.
Then you have Munjaro and zep found that is the Charmelion,
and Reta truetide is Charizard. It is also unapproved. It
is currently going through Phase three clinical trials. The only
way to get the bona fide Reta truetide is if
(18:16):
you are part of a clinical trial run by Eli Lilly.
That is the only way. While the influencers are out
there like I'm on Ritta, I'm on Ratatu. Wee, here's
my crazy insane wellness results.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
Update that nobody asked for.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I just finished my fourth week of Ratatu week, and
I say this, it's amazing.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
Twenty five pounds in four weeks. My strength is basically
the same. I've lost zero muscle and I did this
while eating pizza and canes and drinking alcohol every day,
so safe to say it works.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Today is actually my first official day working out on Ritta.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's like insane. I'm fastard right now. I had so
much energy, I got all my cardio done. Like literally,
just get on it. You have nothing to lose. And
they will say it's past phase three clinical trials. No, no, no, no.
There are like I believe seven or eight clinical trials
that are ongoing in phase three and they've completed one
(19:17):
of those trials and we don't even have the full
results of that particular trial yet. We have the top
line results of it. But you know they're out there
saying it's totally fine. It's safe, and then they'll say
something that's true, which is our healthcare system sucks and
that the insurance companies are charging a crap ton of
money for these JLP one medications that could really change
(19:41):
your life. They don't want you to have it.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
It is your reminder that REDDA will be if I
proved by twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Seven, So find a way to get it now before
they start charge thousand dollars for a one supply.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Here's my affiliate code. I have vetted this particular lab
that's selling research grade Red A True Tide.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Check the link in my bio.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You can get yourself some or shoot me a DM
we can talk about it.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I've done a ton of research on it.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
If you're struggling to lose weight, I highly recommend you
look into taking Red A True Tide. If you want
to pick some up from a trusted source, I have
link in my bio.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You can buy it on TikTok in five minutes. I did.
I bought a vial and like five minutes to prove
a point, I had a ten percent influencer affiliate code discount.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you actually bought this, and so this is something
anybody can be doing.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
On TikTok's something anybody can do. On TikTok, you'll find
influencers going like, here's how you reconstitute rehdta, because they're
not selling it to you. When you get actual GLP
one prescriptions from the doctor, you're probably getting pens where
it's pre mixed and you just like inject it. It's
the appropriate dosage. You are going to see a doctor
every month to talk about your levels and py trading
(20:54):
your dose, talking about side effects and managing those symptoms
with rehta. Right now, you're geting some guy on TikTok
who's not a real doctor saying like, yeah, you should
use two point five grams, and here's how you use
an online peptide calculator, and here's how you reconstitute Amazon
(21:14):
link in my bio to buy syringes that I use.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
You just got your ratitude and you're confused on how
to reconstitute it. I'm going to break it down as
simply as possible so even your grandma could understand this.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I just opened this individually wrapped in slin syringe. I
pulled some airback into it, and I am going to
puncture the top of the backwater and then push some
of that air in. And by the way, this is
not medical advice. This is for research and entertainment purposes only.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
They are buying syringes off of Amazon. They are buying
bacteriostatic water off of wherever, which is sterilized water, and
they are mixing these things themselves, and they are injecting
it to their bodies. And then you read the comments
and they're like, I got like a huge rash from
the injection side. Is that normal? I'm vobbiting my brains
out because they didn't dost properly. Are they actually injecting
(22:09):
reta true tide into their bodies. I've talked to pharmacists,
I've talked to doctors and anercrinologists, and they're just like,
ain no fucking way, excuse the French, ain't no way
that that's the real reta true tide. You do not
know what you are injecting, you don't know what it's
cut with. And they're saying, like, get third party testing
(22:30):
to verify. Well, why how are you trusting a third
party lab when there is no Like usually pharmacists and
compound pharmacies have like a sheet that kind of tells
them here the active pharmaceutical ingredients, here's the sourcing. FDA
have come out and said we don't have those available
for reta true Tide. There's like a warning letter that
(22:51):
was put out, so I don't know that these people
are actually injecting retitrue tide into their bodies. And you
have really irresponsible wellness influencers out here who are just like,
here's why you need to mix tures appetide and read
a true tide. Chirs appetite is majaro and z that bound.
Here's how you mix them. Yeah, here's how you mix them.
You microdose with this and then you microdose with that.
(23:12):
And it's sort of just like, no, oh, that's so
easy to find on TikTok. It is not hard to
find these videos.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Why I'm taking truzetpetide and read a True Tide together, guys.
And actually this picture last year was just truzepetite, So
can you imagine how much better this is about to be?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Speaking of what's easy to find on TikTok, though, I
want to hit you with a counterpoint from the TikTok comments,
which is a sentence I thought I'd never say, but
let me just read some of the comments. So here
we go. The FDA needs to keep an eye on
the disgusting ingredients that they put in food and on
artificial food and leave GLP alone. Another one our food
(23:52):
is straight out poisoned. So it's not about safety, it's
about competition. And the last come out I want to
read is that's fine, China got us covered because a
lot of these peptides are coming from China. Not that
I'm advocating that, Oh, it was much better when we
were all just really xenophobic and terrible and racist, but
it's kind of wild to hear that somebody trusts a
(24:13):
random influencer who is selling them stuff from a place
that they don't really know much about, rather than the FDA.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, that's kind of where this is so insidious, because
you know, you have something that's very true, right, which
is that Eli Lilly Norvoonordisk they have basically patented these
DLP ones and they want to charge what they want
to charge for it, And the insurance companies are like,
these are hala expensive. We're going to put very restrictive
(24:43):
conditions onto who can get these. But you know, you
have a lot of people who could potentially benefit from
these medications. There's a lot of research being done about that.
And so we live in a fat phobic society, and
you have a lot of people who are just very
desperate who could benefit from the medications, who are being told,
for arbitrary reasons, you can't get it or you're going
(25:06):
to have to pay one thousand dollars a month for it.
So there's a grain of truth there that they're digging into.
But then they go and say, oh, yeah, so the
FDA doesn't care about you. The FDA exists because people
died all of these regulations, and the drug approval process
exists because people died in the past when we didn't
have these regulations. But you can see how insidious it
(25:29):
gets because you take something that is very true, that
is very emotionally true, that is just like in capitalism,
very true that these drug companies want to make money
and our healthcare system sucks, and we're going to put
it with you shouldn't trust healthcare institutions. And this influencer
is here and you have a parasocial relationship with them.
They're using words like science backed, clinically backed. You're not
(25:51):
thinking about the fact that they are profiting off of
selling these peptides to you. They get a cut from
the affiliate code. It keeps me up at night. Honestly,
it's tough. It's tough to watch it happen. And you know,
I write about it, and then I get called the
big pharmachell like you're defending the big farmer companies, Like yeah, yeah,
I've had commenters tell me I am a big Pharmachelle
(26:13):
and it's like, no, I just don't want you to
put an approved drug sourced from God knows where into
your body. I agree with you that the affordability thing
is a problem. I think it's wrong, and there does
need to be regulatory overalls, and the pharmaceutical companies do
need to be held accountable for being so greedy. But
for God's sake, can we have like critical thinking skills
(26:35):
and not inchect something that you bought dubiously offline into
your bodies using sypringes. When I challenge you, I challenge
you to find an influencer who is properly disinfecting everything
the surfaces, using gloves, washing their hands before they disinfect things.
When they teach you how to reconstitute these gray market
(26:57):
peptides because I asked a pharmacist and she was like,
oh no, they are missing several steps. So oh no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, we should probably acknowledge why this wellness wild West
exists in the first place. Part of it in the US,
at least, is the high cost of healthcare. If you're
worried about being able to afford to see a doctor,
you might also want to look for an alternative. There
is also another factor here. People want to be liked,
and there is money to be made and telling people
(27:25):
that we would like them more if they just looked
a little younger, or a little thinner, or a little prettier.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And I think we don't talk about it a lot
because regardless if you lose weight for whatever reason, people
will praise you. So you could have lost weight through
very toxic behaviors, but many people in your life meaning
well will say, great job, keep it going.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
We've been talking about doing stuff to your body. Victoria
has gone far enof down this rabbit hole. To know
what this stuff can do to your mind, begin into
that after the break. So just to be clear here,
influencers aren't just recommending weird injectables to their followers. One
(28:14):
trend is based on actual, tested, legitimate medical technology. It's
just that technology isn't really meant for consumer use. I'm
talking here about a continuous glucose monitor or CGM. So
these are small devices that are inserted under the skin,
and they're originally developed for people with diabetes to monitor
their glucose levels. But now you can just buy these
(28:35):
things over the counter, and wellness influencers are encouraging people
to use them to track their metabolism.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
There's influencers who will tell you that you have to
optimize your metabolism, one of them being a potential Surgeon
General candidate, Casey Means, who co founded a CGM company
and has a book called Good Energy about metabolic dysfunction
being the root cause of all everything in your life.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
What's really important for people to realize is that metabolism
is actually the foundation of all health. It is the
core foundational pathway that drives all other aspects of health.
And so one thing that the glucose monitors for us
is just give us more awareness and agency into what
(29:24):
the trends of our glucose are over time, as opposed
to a literally one data point snapshot once a year
in the doctor's office, which is what the majority of
us are used to.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So you know, they are saying like, oh, if you're
an athlete, you could use the CGM, or if you're
trying to lose weight, there are weight loss CGM startups
that are like, oh, this is the easiest way for
you to lose weight is to monitor everything you eat
and see how it spikes your glucose.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
I want to share with you some of my worst offenders,
my worst glucose offenders.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Calm the magnesium drink.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
I drink that every single night.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
It spiked my glucose significant Also, what spike my glucose
by melatonin.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Guns And then you know, you kind of fall into
this mental trap of wanting your glucose to stay within
this range when it's perfectly normal. I have talked to many, many,
many endocrinologists and diabetic experts who are like, it's perfectly
natural and normal for your blood glucose to spike above
(30:25):
that level and then it'll fall back down into the
normal level. But you have influencers out here who are
kind of gamifying staying within a specific range at all time.
And is that useful? I don't know that that's useful.
Like I've used them. I found out that I had
fatty liver disease through the use of one, but not
(30:46):
before I got really scared that I was diabetic because
my results were not looking the way that they should.
And it took me, i want to say, about a
year and a half at a very long time. So
did I have a positive experience from using a CGM
and testing them through my job. I think the experience
was really mixed because it made food eating very contentious for.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
A while for me.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
What do you mean, I'd be at Thanksgiving and I'd
be like, oh, can I eat that in this order?
Or will it spike my glucose That's very kind of
borderline disordered eating thoughts. It's not the end of the
world if you're glucose spikes. Like I know all of
this stuff already. That doesn't mean I wasn't prone to
falling into those mental traps if I was using it
(31:32):
too often.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You know, I recently interviewed a philosopher who studies games
and also gamification, and this optimization thing comes right into
that because SAE, even not as far as you know,
glucose monitoring, let's say, just weight loss tracking, sticking to
(31:54):
macros or you know, calorie counting can be productive for
some people, but it can also get you into a
point where you're not enjoying anything you're eating, or where
you're just literally like eating pizza or eating prepackaged food
because you know the exact calories that are in it,
(32:15):
because you're starting to focus only on the numbers. And
this is something that I find really interesting about the
wearable tech that you talk about so much and that
you cover, is that there's a way in which we've
kind of been sold the idea that the more you track,
the better it is. You know, what's measured gets managed. Right, Yeah,
(32:38):
sure that's not untrue, but there's a way in which
it can kind of make you sick in another way,
incredibly maybe mentally.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh, health anxiety and wearables, it is the dark side
of it. There was a study done and they found
that this elderly woman did like nine hundred kg readings
in a year because she got so scared. And that's hm,
that's more than one a day, right. I think about
that study all the time, because I actually write about
(33:07):
it quite often at the verge where I say I
have mandatory wearable breaks if I find myself getting two
into streaks. If I find myself falling into these habits
of perfectionism, I will take a break. I'll talk to
my editors and be like, I'm going to focus on
a different type of product for a little bit because
it's impacting my mental health that way. And I have
(33:28):
found those techniques for like ten years of covering this space,
and so I hope to share that wisdom with people,
but it is anxiety inducing. I do find myself falling
into some traps at times, and perfectionism type a personality.
What say you, I think a lot of us have that.
(33:49):
I think it's very human to be that way. And
let's be real. You are the product in a wearable life.
It's not just health, it's also AI. The reason why
they are pushing this concept of AI wearables right now
is that you don't take a wearable off. They can
collect so much data on you. They can say it's
(34:10):
personalizing your health feeds into this optimization longevity narrative, and
what they're really doing is profiting off of all the
data that they're collecting on you. Because you are the product.
You make the AI better because you're wearing it, and
the AI learned so much more about you because you're
wearing it.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
This is your job, Like you're actually in the trenches
testing just about everything. I mean, you're basically running like
a twenty four to seven experiment on yourself. Yeah, all
of these different things. What would you say to somebody
who is thinking about picking up that or a ring,
(34:46):
or who's thinking about subscribing to that service where you
get blood tests and you send it away, or who's
thinking about getting some other kind of wearable or wellness device.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
All anyone wants is to live a healthy life. That
It's very simple, right, What are the keys to a
healthy life? Every doctor will tell you it's the same
three things, the same three things. No one's going to
want to hear this, but it is the same three things.
Sleep seven to eight hours a night, eat balanced meals,
exercise multiple times a week. That's it. That is what
(35:19):
is in your control. But nobody likes to hear that,
and we all want shortcuts. So it's a very like
I joke that my beat is the cursed beat, the
dystopian beat. But you know, I initially got into it
because I do was trying to live a healthier life.
And then I do live a healthier life. I do.
(35:39):
I'm pretty much in the best shape and health I've
been ever. But it's not to say that it didn't
come at a cost. It did come at a cost,
a lot of cost to my mental health. I talk
with a therapist very frequently anytime I think of myself
just kind of going off the deep end with these devices,
and then she'll be like, I think it's time you
(36:01):
take a break, And I'm like, you're right. Let me
go talk to my editors about that. So what I
would say to anyone who is thinking about it is
to really go in with a strong why, Like why
do you want it? What is the goal that you're
trying to achieve. If your goal is that you want
something to help you be more active, get the minimally
(36:24):
viable thing to help you get more active. If you
think a or a ring is that for you because
it has no screen, you just want to do your
general fitness tracking great, try to limit yourself to checking
once a day. You know, don't get too invested in
these numbers. It's about seeing baseline trends over a long
period of time. If you feel yourself starting to change
(36:48):
your life to fit the ring, give yourself permission to
take breaks from it. Like at one point, I was like,
I got to close these rings. It's eleven forty five.
Let me do jumping jacks at forty five pm so
I can get the ten calories needed to close a ring.
You need a break, You need a break. I know
people who have done this. I know people who have
(37:10):
been like I have COVID. Do you think I should
go outside for like a fifteen minute walk so I
can close a ring? And I've had friends say that
to me. Do you like, do you think I should
do this? And I'm like, no, you need to rest,
Like that's insane.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I haven't used one of these enclosed the ring. It's
like finish your numbers for the day or something.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, So the Apple Watch just you have three different
rings for like how many exercise minutes you get during
the day, how many minutes you stand up, and how
many calories you burn in the day. First of all,
I'll also say that calorie burn and calorie metrics are
wildly inaccurate, So don't get too obsessive about any of
these numbers. These are tools meant to help you. It's
(37:53):
just you know, you got to have a good support network.
You've got to have a very strong reason why and
kind of stick to that reason why and use the
minimally viable methods. You do not need more data. Like
I said, the three tellers are two sleeps, eight hours tonight,
(38:16):
eat it all balanced meal most of the time, and
exercise like.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
That's it, all right, doctor song, All right, doctor.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I'm not a doctor, but I am telling you that
all doctors will tell you to do that.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
So yeah, big thank you to Victoria for coming back
on the show, and thanks to you for listening to
kill Switch. And by the way, we talked a little
bit about peptides in this episode. If you want to
know more about what exactly peptides are and where they're
coming from and who's using these things, we got a
whole episode about that and we'll link that in the description.
(38:47):
Or if you want to know something else, you can
email us at kill Switch at kaleidoscope dot NYC or
on Instagram. We're at kill Switch Pod and wherever you're
listening to this, it would be amazing If you leave
the show a review. It helps other people find the show,
which helps us keep doing our thing. And this thing
is hosted by me Dexter Thomas. It's produced by Sena Ozaki,
(39:08):
dar Luck Potts and Julia Nutter. Our theme song is
by Me and Kyle Murdoch and Kyle also mixed the show.
From Kaleidoscope, Our executive producers are Ozwalashin, Mangeshati Gadour, and
Kate Osborne. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvil
and Nikki E.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Tour.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Catch on the Next One, Goodbye,
kill switch News
Hosts And Creators
Oz Woloshyn
Karah Preiss
Show Links
AboutPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Kingdom of Fraud
It’s the unlikeliest of criminal partnerships: a devout polygamist from an insular Utah sect joining forces with a shadowy Armenian tycoon from LA. The result - a billion dollar fraud conspiracy. In Kingdom of Fraud, investigative reporter Michele McPhee traces the origins of the extraordinary alliance between Jacob Kingston and Levon Termendzhyan. Together, the two men trigger the largest tax investigation in American history and weave around themselves a web of dirty cops, influential political relationships and transnational money laundering. All this is set against the backdrop of Jacob Kingston’s clan – The Order. A powerful and secretive polygamist organization in Salt Lake City. To whom Jacob is desperate to prove his worth. Kingdom of Fraud is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of Kingdom of Fraud completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!