Episode 104: Black Canary

Dani and Ify are joined by Editor of The Mary Sue, Princess Weekes, to discuss the complex history of DC's Black Canary.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, how's it going? Everyone? You are listening to another
episode of nerd Efficent. I am one hand of your
host if you watch away, but digitally sitting across from
me is Danny Fernandez. Hey, how's it going, Danny? How
how's your how's your core going? I mean it's going.
I'm still I'm still writing on the show. So we

(00:30):
meet virtually, and um, that's interesting, you know, because I'm
like wearing a bikini top as a bra, and I'm like,
you know, like nobody really sees very much. I got
my like I got like tiny like yoga shorts on. Yeah,
Molly is a menace. Everyone asked about my dog, and
she's like straight up rear windowing it, just like watching

(00:53):
every neighbor and like barking at them to stay inside. Yeah,
she's she's uh pent up, got got that. She's going
stir crazy. She's like, I need to sniff butts. I
need to be out there running and smell the grass.
She's like, stay home, save lives. She's just like screaming
at people. Yeah, I gotta stay inside. You better get

(01:15):
inside right now. How's your quarantine going? How's Naomi good?
You know, she's getting stir crazy too. I remember the
not too long and I took her for a walk
and her and another kid saw each other and they
looked like they both never saw another kid for years,
and I was like, all right, both relax, y'all need
to chill the f out. But other than that, good,

(01:39):
very very good, very good. I just got a box
set of yomi Azaki all his works, and I didn't
I didn't know he did the loop on the third movie,
so that was like a nice, uh kind of surprise.
But yeah, so I got that. I've been buying so
many blue rays I got ACKI to goring log on
big oh really and then about like a blue ray holder.

(02:02):
I'm just gonna have so so much physical media. Well
that's good because a lot of streaming sites have been
like mine keeps buffering so much because everyone's on it
and it's literally driving me nuts. That's why I was like, Okay, yeah,
this is a good time, and like, you know, I mean,

(02:23):
I you know, I will say, the streaming slights do
keep up with four K and stuff, so it looks
gorgeous either way, but there is something that just having
it pop it in and you're not you know, waiting
for buffering. You're just getting that crisp Crisp blue ray.
Uh you know picture. Uh you know who else is
going to have all the Miyazaki stuff. HBO Max, they

(02:44):
have the right, they're uploading all of it. And you
know they're my I was gonna say they're my baby mama.
We're in a relationship together. So well, this week I
have no segue. Last week I had the best seguays,
but this week I have no speaking of relationships. No. Um.

(03:07):
We have assistant editor at the Mary Sue. She's also
the co host of It's Lit from PBS. It is
Princess Week. Hi, thank you so much for having me,
Thanks for coming on as much. Oh are you binging
anything right now? I am currently binging Deep Space nine.

(03:27):
Uh is my first trek, like for real, for real.
I got really into Discovery and I was like, well,
let me watch the other black one and so and
I'm having a good time with it. It's sadly very
topical and relevant right now. Yeah. No, Joe, if he'll
be proud of me because the thing I've been binging

(03:48):
is Jojo Stories. I was like, oh, yeah, see how
you liking those buff men? Oh he's so thick. I'm
very happy he's so thick and just beautiful. Yeah, that's
what I was saying, is it's crazy how and Jojo
they do not neglect the thighs like they they all

(04:10):
their buff upper body, but they also have like ripped
quads too, Like that's what I'm talking about. He's like
if the Hulk were like royalty or something. Yes, oh
my gosh. Yeah, so I'm just I'm still in season one,
but I heard it gets even better, right, So yeah,

(04:30):
season season one is kind of hard for people because
of that royal kind of cheesy talk. It gets a
little better and part two of season one when it
like bumps up to like the seventies, and then after
that it's a little more current and that's when it's
really it's a really easy watch. But I didn't mind
it too much me, you know, because I actually love that.
I was like, oh, this is hella like count of
Money Christo, Yes, exactly. Yeah, And then yeah with me,

(04:54):
what I'm binging is the show called Gintama, which is, uh,
it's a it's an of me, but it's like comedy
action and it's been really it's funny because there's they
do a lot of like topical Japanese humor, and they'll
try and you know how anime when its subs, they'll
like put a whole chunk of information at the top

(05:17):
of this, like you have to pose it because it's
like a paragraph explaining a joke within a paragraph of dialogue.
And I'm like, wait, hold hold up, hold up. But
it's been a it's been a fun watch. And uh yeah,
I've just been enjoying that. So I'm real excited that
we're all binging some nice and nerdy things. Uh, we're
getting into some nice and nerdy things. Uh. Talking about

(05:40):
a character from d C who I feel like she's
she's been getting a lot of waves from Birds of Prey,
but you know, her name has been popping up, you know,
quite quite a bit because uh it was correct me
if I'm wrong, but she was part of them, or
I guess it was the same name the other Birds

(06:01):
of Prey that isn't the one that was the movie,
right the TV show? Yes, Yeah, she a version of
her was in it. Uh. Whenever anybody says a version,
I'm like, oh, here we go. Yeah. So, so, um,
what if he's talking about this week we're covering Black

(06:22):
Canary and um if he did you get to watch
Birds of Prey yet? No, I'm an idiot. Yeah I
have it on my on my like que, but I
have not watched it because I've been doing all these
uh these super Punch live streams. Um, well, it is fantastic.
It's why. I mean, obviously we're all kind of up

(06:43):
in arms about the fact that it's not so good
and like not getting the credit obviously that it deserves.
But another thing I want to say is the fight
scenes are glorious, Like they're really good, like they're real choreographed,
um so, and just funny, like honestly just funny and

(07:03):
like dark but lighthearted, and it has you know, each
woman is so different and definitely worth checking out. But
it's kind of crazy because people were like, y'all are
watching Tiger King and you can't even spend ninety minutes
watching Birds of Preak. You know, you know, I fall

(07:24):
into that category where it's like, trust me, it's on
my list. It's definitely my stuff. I was almost going
to mess up and say, you know, the other word,
but it's definitely in my lane. It is just one
of those things where like it came out and that
that's what's so interesting too, I will say, because yeah,
I'm sure later in the podcast will really get into
just how weird it was for the promotion of this movie,

(07:46):
but even like now, when everyone's at home, it really
seems like they didn't do any promotion that it was out.
The way I found out it was out was from
my friends posting it they were watching, and I was like,
that's weird. You know, you would think that you would
push this release even harder since everyone is stuck at
home right now, and you I don't know. It just

(08:09):
feels everything around, just the lack of promotion, both on
screen and on on It's like, you know, digital release
just feels off. Mm hmm, agreed. Um, well, practice, I
wanted to start with, like, what was your first introduction
to Black Canary that you remember? Um, So, my first

(08:30):
introduction to her was when I watched Justice League Unlimited.
There's an episode where she shows up and I remember
the it's you see a panning shot and she's on
top of this truck and you see like her like
boots and fishnets first, and then she just destroys five
burglars with all of this amazing martial arts skills, and

(08:53):
I knew then that I was hooked. I just I
fell in love with that character. I loved how she
was both very like sexy obviously but like competent. She
can just step into a room and just destroy everybody
in there, either fighting hand to hand or using her
Canary cry. And I was a stand from that moment.

(09:13):
What about you, Iffie, do you remember your first introduction
when he first saw her? Yeah? My my first introduction
went to black Canary. I think is when when did that?
When when did the Birds of Prey show pop up?
Let me let me see that in the two thousand's right, Okay,
Now there was like a live action version. The live

(09:33):
action one was there were a couple the earliest one
what's their list? One? Like ever it looks like ninety
nine okay, definitely not that, yes, and the Birds of
pretty like the actual show. Yeah, two thousand and two
when they did so, that was kind of like when
she kind of was on my radar for me. Uh

(09:57):
and definitely yet her Justice League appearances, but also, um,
she was doing some stuff during like the New fifty
two era, and I think that's when I got sprinklings,
like New fifty two. I was right when I was
in the in the like the the the critical mass
of me buying comic books and having a poll poll

(10:19):
list like it was. It was like the heroic Age,
and I think they were trying to call it for
Marvel and New fifty two. It was Brightest Day. And
then it led to New fifty two. We had the
Flashpoint event, and so I got I took this as
an opportunity to really get to know characters in DC
outside of me, And they had this really cool dead
Shot as a pirate, you know, because they did these

(10:42):
alt series during flash flash Point, because there was all
these alternate universe all these heroes, and one was where
Batman was Bruce Wayne's father and it was actually his
son that died and his son and wife. It was
like really cool stuff. But then at the New fifty
two stage, they kind of rebooted everything and I kind
of tried to get a little bit of everything, and

(11:03):
so she she was sprinkled around because there was the
Team um where they had Team seven I think it
was called, and and I was seeing a little bit
of her in that um you know, I don't remember.
Maybe it was also in two thousand and two. But um,
I really remember when um she popped up in Smallville.

(11:26):
Oh yes, that was after oh yeah, and then of
course in uh in the CW word, Like that's that's
what I you know, remember until this movie, like you know,
the most vividly, but obviously also in the animation and
the animated shows. But I think like actually the embodiment

(11:48):
of like seeing her in live action that was mine
until Birds of Prey, until this film came out. Yeah,
but yeah, I mean before we before we get too deep,
I think we can go in the the intro into uh,
you know, the nitty gritty of Black Canary, which is
the fact that Robert Canager and car Carmine Infantino created

(12:10):
the character in to be featured in Flash Comics as
a supporting character, appearing first as a Claddenstein crime fighter
who infiltrates criminal organizations to break them from the inside.
Black Canary was drawn with fishnet stockings and black and
a black leather jacket to conno images of a sexualized
yet strong female character. She appeared as a character in

(12:31):
a backup story featuring Johnny Thunder. Yeah, so this is
um from Carmine says, I was drawing Johnny Thunder, which
was not much of a character. I suppose he could
have been better because his Thunderbolt was interesting, but the
situations they were in were pretty juvenile. Bob Canag wrote
these stories and he had no respect for the characters. Wow,
it's always funny we discovered t there's so much. These

(12:55):
stories were nowhere near as good as the Flashtoys. D
C knew it. They knew Johnny he was a loser.
This is a lot ut in the Black Canary to
the series. Immediately she got a good response and it
was by bye, Johnny thunder Nobody missed him. Wow, there's
a scrub. This is open public knowledge. So I don't
mind quickly spilling the tea on this Ben Affleck thing.

(13:18):
The Gone Girl commentary had a director's commentary. David Fincher
was like, there was a scene and he was like, oh,
in this scene where Ben Affleck just putting on a
hat and going through the airport and he doesn't want
to be recognized from the news, and he was like,
given like something something how unprofessional of an actor Ben
Affleck is He refused where a Yankees hat, even though

(13:40):
it would fit the character, because that's where the character
is from because he's because Ben Affleck is like a
Boston fan, and so we that lines up. That lines
up with and he said, he said, it's shut down
production for four days. So my guys had to sit
around for four days. We wasted and he just did
not care. He just eight up, was like he's unprofessional,

(14:01):
and I was like, and it was in a commentary
for his movie Wild, Oh my God. And in his defense,
if they tried to get me to wear a Celtics jersey,
I'd be like, nah, him like I don't know. Like Meanwhile,

(14:21):
Chris Evans has been pertaining to be from Brooklyn for
life a decade, so it can be done. It's black.
Canarias ranked the seventy one greatest comic book character of
all time by Wizard and I g and rated her
it's eighty one greatest all time comic book hero. She's
number twenty six on the Comic Buyers Guys to Sexiest

(14:42):
Women in Comics list. Wo yeah, you got a huge
bump up when it turned into the Sexiest Women in Comics.
We talked about this in a in our other episode,
but it was kind of wild how anime women in
anime gets seen as being oversexualized. When you look at
our the comics it covers from the nineties, and it's
like boobs that are so big it's like painful looking,

(15:05):
like it just looks. That's what's so funny to kind
of watching um My Hero Academia and how they have
characters like Midnight Um and um what is it Mount
Lady who are like overtly like kind of especially Midnight Midnight.
Her whole thing is how sexual and how everyone finds it.
But then when you think about that My Hero Academia

(15:27):
is based off of like Western comics, it's almost like
it almost makes you wonder if they're almost making fun
and winking at Western audiences of being like, oh, yeah,
you always make fun of anime characters, but here's how
y'all superheroes be looking. I think that right, because the
other women in it aren't like there's women that have smaller,

(15:48):
you know, bodies in My hero and so like it's
specifically especially because all my is kind of making fun
of or at least a nod to Western superheroes. But
it's just funny to me that we never talk about
our own stuff and we're always like, oh, they're sexualizing
it's like, no, we have that. Also, like a lot
of these characters are teenagers too, especially star Fire, Oh

(16:12):
my gosh, star Fire, Oh boy. And I don't know
if you remember Princess the new fifty two star Fire
that was so bad everyone had to be like, Okay,
this we went too far. We went to it was
infamously bad that even fanboys were like, no, I think
this is a bit much. Do you know when um,

(16:35):
when um Steve, when Steve Carrell in The Four Year
Old Virgin, he refers to boobs as like bags of sand. Like,
so that's what I think of with some of these comics.
It just looks like the boombs are about to burst open.
Like it reminds me of like when my sister in
law was breastfeeding. It's just like there's like busting out
of this. That's what I mean about pain for where

(16:55):
it's just like it just looks like they're about to
bust through their skin. Yeah, Cup runneth over for sure.
Um So. At her Golden Age debut, Black Canary was
the alter ego of Dina Drake. Am I saying that? Yeah?
Dina Dina Dina Drake and participated in crime fighting adventures

(17:16):
with her love interests and eventual husband, Gotham City detective
Larry Lance. Did you princess like this run or like
her having a husband. I have to say my favorite
incarnation is actually her daughter. But I do like it
when superpowered women have scrubs for husbands, Like, yeah, that's

(17:38):
how I feel when I watched Wonder Woman with them.
Steve Trevor, like he's very much the sub Like he's
very he's very much like she wears the pants and
he's okay with that. Um So, I do love that
about these d C ladies. If you need to make
a comic like that. The support of dad, Yeah, good,

(18:00):
good supportive dad, And I like those concepts. I like
a good support of dad. I was like, yeah, mom
and my daughters out there fighting crime and I'm just,
you know, over here doing dishes. Um so. Black Canary
was originally a hand to hand fighter without superpowers who
often pose as a criminal to infiltrate criminal gangs. Later
stories depicted her as a world class martial artist with

(18:22):
a superpower, The Canary Cry, as a high powered sonic
scream which could shatter objects and incapacity and even kill
powerful floes. Um actually did really like how they showed
that in the new Birds of Prey movie. I was
like wondering exactly how they would um if they were
like burst out our ear drops in the theater, But

(18:43):
I felt like they did a really good job of that, so, uh,
you know, it's fun thing listeners. So after the Crisis
on and fitted Earth's event, uh, Black Black Canaries origin
was altered and the character were now two separate people, uh,
Dine Drake and her daughter, Dina Laurel Lance. And Dina
Drake married private investigator Larry Lance and acquaintance of James Gordon,

(19:07):
and after the loss of her husband and retired, Dinah
Lance raised their daughter raised their daughter, Dinah Laurel Lance,
who grew up surrounded by her mother's friends and former
teammates of the Justice Society. Awed by her mother's exploits
as the Black Canary and the adventures of the Justice Society,
Dina aspired to become a superheroine. However, the older Dinah

(19:28):
did not approve of her daughter's wishes. Well, if I
did want to hop into her powers, and we're going
to do that. Right after these messages, we are back.
We're still talking about Black Canary. I wanted to talk
about her powers because we kind of touched on them.

(19:49):
But Um, Princess, aside from her sonic scream, her Black
Canary cry, Um, what are some of the other powers
that she's known for. Well, her other really abilities are
more her combat style. She is, after Lady Shiva and Batman,
one of the top tier fighters in the DC Universe period.

(20:11):
She's trained in like several different sorts of combat skills
and even with her Canary car that has changed over time,
but the most consistent thing of batter is that she
can basically kick anyone's but in any situation. Um. She
has beaten up Batman before and that was fantastic to watch.

(20:31):
I feel like most people have an advantage over that
man because he's literally wrapped in rubber, like it must
be so difficult for him to move all the time.
And then okay, so she Yeah, we have a list
here of like all of her different martial arts style,
which is like every style ever. Um. She has been

(20:52):
trained by other top tier fighters including Wildcat, Lady Shiva,
Cassandra Caine, and wonder Woman. Okay, so, with the comics
in Oracle summoned Black Canary to work as an agent
for her. After a mission with her first agent, Power Girl,
went awry, the duo formed the Birds of Prey, and
when Dina began working with the Birds of Prey, she

(21:14):
got rid of her blonde wig and bleach bleached her
hair blonde, so she went full blonde. Um. At first,
Dina did not get along with Oracle, but eventually the
two put their disagreements aside and became best friends. UM.
As far as the Birds of Prey run, what do
you think A Prentice? What do you think? Like? Attracted

(21:35):
people to this comic so much because it kind of
just has lived on pretty iconically. I think for a
lot of people it was a great way to highlight
Oracle because this was kind of like the really big
thing that she had done post becoming Bad Girl and
now is Oracle. So it was great seeing all of

(21:56):
these women coming together to basically pick a team. And
even though Chuck Dixon is the one who originated and
Gayl Simone took over this series in like two thousand
and three, I believe she really allowed all of the
women to have really interesting dynamics. They were left to
have genuine um disagreements as a squad but like really

(22:17):
build together. And I think that um, in comparison to
the film, what a lot of people really missed and
wanted was that Oracle Um Dina Countress relationship because that
was like the core three of the of the Birds
of Prey for a long time. Yeah, and so then
they ended up adding, um, you know Harley Quinn poison

(22:40):
ivy um. And I want to say Gail Simone, which
is just so she I know I've talked about on
this podcast her like women in Fridges, which is still up.
She's the one that kind of coined that term as
far as women being killed or hurt in some way
to further the plot of a man character. Um. She

(23:02):
is a treat to also follow on Twitter because she
is just flexing on people constantly. Um. She people will
be like what do you even know about comics? Or
like what do you know about this person? And she'll
like take a shot like a screenshot of her library
and it's just like she's like read the names on
it and it's just her name written on like all

(23:24):
of the comics is it's third Winner's trying to come
for her online because it's like do you even know
who you're talking to like, yeah, yeah, no, exactly, It's
so funny. I just love watching her flex constantly, but
also as someone that that understands how often women are
kind of just used as very stereotypical trophy ways, it
was so great to have her not only getting this obviously,

(23:46):
but she's also known for wonder Woman. I mean, she's
one of my favorite oneer woman uh writers. But just
like being able to take full reins on this, and
same with the Birds of Prey movie, like just having
women involved. You can feel it like in the bone
of this, you know. Um, So that was really that
was really awesome. And if you haven't picked up these comics,

(24:08):
it's a great time to still get comics. I think
even a lot of comic book places they're still trying
to stay afloat. This is just like a sidebar, but
you can do like no contact like pick up and
stuff with your fellow comics, like hit them up, ask them.
You know, they're they're trying to still they're still trying
to stay in business. So it's a great time to
catch up on comics right now. Very true, very true.

(24:28):
We got lots of time inside, so feel free to
go ahead and get at that. Pool List. It's so funny, Princess,
because I'm looking at this her from when we cook
on the animation thing in the um the artwork, she
looks like Harley Quinn. So I'm really glad that they
change that for the movie because it's like it would
just be too Harley's No, for sure, they really like

(24:51):
I would be watching Suicide Squad the other day and
I just have so many notes on Harley's costume. I
hate every almost everything about it. I hate. The best
thing is that Margot Robbie is talented, but like man
the Male Department, Yeah, when they went and ran with it,
so yeah, so uh. The first animated appearance of Dina

(25:15):
Drake is the basis of the character Donna Nance, the
Black Siren, who's voiced by Jennifer Hale and the Justice
League Animated series episode Legends in two thousand two. Then
the Dina Laurel Lance version, which was voiced by Marina Backred,
appears in the sequel series Justice League Unlimited, where she's
a member of the Justice League and she has that

(25:37):
romantic relationship with Green Arrow and uh, the partnership with
Huntress during that series, which is probably like that that
kind of like kind of lobbed it up to what
would make the you know Erroverse team be like, oh,
we need to bring her into the verse. She's great
in arroverse, Like she's really I love her. I love

(25:59):
her in that eares and uh on the CW I'm
really glad with like also a great also a great
channel that has a lot of badass women and queer people.
They were like, the more queer people and women, the better.
So I really respect them for doing that. I wanted
to say. Jennifer Hale, little known fact, is actually the

(26:20):
voice of Cinderella. So she when the original Cinderella passed away.
You know, we're getting to a point where some of
our original Disney princesses are passing on and the mantel
gets handed to the next. She has voice Cinderella for
twenty five years, I believe. Um. She was on my
Disney Princess panel with the original princesses at New York
Comic Con, so that was really cool. She doesn't always

(26:43):
get the credit, but like, whenever you hear Cinderella, now,
that is her. So she's carrying on the legacy of
that character. It's pretty cool. So the black can area
that I'm looking at right now. She has these gray leggings,
black boots kind of like a blue top or a

(27:06):
navy there thank you, um, and choker and a choker
and um. But this was heavily, heavily changed for the movie. So, Princess,
can you talk a little bit about her the change
in her looks, because I love what they did for

(27:26):
her in the movie. Yeah, for sure, Like the fishnet
style is iconic, Like that's very much what Black Canary wears.
But I definitely think that they did a good job
at updating the costume. Actually, the costume that she wears
at the end of the movie is a nod to
sort of one of her older body suit costumes that
you still exist. It was very disco um, and I

(27:49):
think all the choices they made because there's one where
she's singing, um, it's a man's world. She's wearing a
fishnet dress, which looks amazing, and I think everything she
wears is so thing that Dinah would wear um in
her day to day garb uh. And I think I
just wanted to do something that was a little bit
less voye voyeuristic but still sexy because I think that

(28:13):
you know, she's still wearing like this really um great
body is She's still wearing these tight pants, but it's
a little bit more functional than straight up corset body
suit boots and fishnet leggings. Yeah, it's a great choice.
I also want to say in every iteration of her,
is she also a singer? That's newer um I believe

(28:36):
in during one of the New fifty two relaunches, they
did a standalone series with Dina I believe it was
Dinah Drake, and they incorporated the singing into it, and
that is just sort of like built in since then,
so it's a fairly new addition, but it has um oh.
I just wanted to say. One of the things that's
really interesting about Dinah as a character in like The

(28:58):
Black Canarias that she was part of the original Um
Justice Justice Society of America. So she's been like a
really important figure in comic books for a really long time.
But she's just very underrated because she's both a legacy
character UM and she kind of gets overshadowed by some
of the more powerful female staple characters like um, You're

(29:22):
wonder Woman, You're Supergirl. But I think the fact that
she's managed to be so popular from like the late
forties onward, just shows like how special she is and
how much people do like to see a female character
whose power is half just pure physical combat. And also
she screams that you real loud. Yeah, if I had

(29:44):
a superpower, that would definitely be mine. Because I used
to always say that I wanted to stop time. I
was like, I just need more time, and now I
have the little most time in the world. So I
really regret saying that. Um, and now if I could
just end people with my scream, that would be great.
We we have to take a really quick break and
then we're going to hop into the movie and in
the future of Black Canary right after this and we

(30:13):
are back. So something that it's kind of fascinating with
with Black Canary and even Hunters in some way, is
that now that they've kind of aligned with Harley Quinn.
Harley Quinn, I don't want to say she's not a hero,
but she's definitely an anti hero. And so do you
think that Black Canary kind of hops back and forth

(30:34):
between being being in that same space. Um, I wouldn't
say so. I think that other than when they first
tried to like make her play both teams, and like
the early early days of her creation, she's pretty much
been a solid hero. I think that more has to
do with Ecy trying to figure out how to deal
with Harley, how to deal with the fact that she

(30:55):
was a villain for so long, and I think they
attached her to characters like dying like Barbara Gordon. He
sort of allows us to see the good and Harley
rather than to see the moral brainnest in those women. Gotcha, Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. It's I mean I
see Harley the same way I mean poison Ivy is
seen depending on whose view you're looking at. She's a villain.

(31:17):
I mean, she literally plays a villain in the Batman movies,
but when you think about it, she's actually not really
doing anything that villain is. She's trying to say she
believes in plants and like humans are ruining things. She's
a scientist and it's just like he was. Whose viewpoint
are you looking at? But however, I do view her
and Harley as being definitely more chaotic, like um, Harley

(31:40):
has like a this chaos energy where it's more like
she'll like do anything to get what she wants. In
my opinion, Um, and so I feel like Black Canary
has like slightly more morals than that. However, in Birds
of Prey, it is really fascinating if we get another film,
how how they're going to explore this, because I do

(32:02):
agree that I feel like her being coupled with some
of these other women, it kind of seems like they're
more on the criminal, like haisty type of vibe. Yeah,
it'll be interesting for sure. I think what I did
appreciate is sort of how at the end they kind
of do separate Harley from the rest of the gang.
Um they're like, oh, yeah, there there's those goods the

(32:24):
Birds of Prey. I think if we do get a sequel,
I don't even know if Harley might actually be in it.
I think they might try and do with that and
just go full birds are probay Birds of Prey. But
if they do bring Harley in, I think it will
be another situation where, um, they are trying to do
something legitimately good, and Harley will be brought in because uh,

(32:46):
there's something that she wants involved, or because of her
relationship with Cassandra. They might be like, oh, I have
to protect this kid, and she wants to be nice
to these other ladies. Well, something that I if he
was talking about the promotion of this movie, and I
think it might have been I don't know if calling
it Birds of Prey, which we all know in the
comic book world. But a part of me felt like

(33:08):
that might have been people that aren't as familiar, like
you said, like it's not a Wonder Woman where it's
like so known by its name. Um where I saw
a lot of that conversation happening online. Now, granted, I'm
sure that it could have been promoted a lot more,
but you are going against trying to think of how

(33:29):
to weard this. Well, it's characters that aren't the A list, right,
which is fine, but I mean Marvel has been doing
that we just talked about. Marvel will take se list
characters and put them up And it's not that there's
list like their storylines, it's just their sea list because
people don't know them as well. Um So I feel
like a part of that might have also led into this,

(33:49):
like some of these women aren't as well, some of
these characters aren't as well known, so they almost need
twice the marketing. Yeah, it's it's interesting. I had. I've
had this converss station like all the time with my
friends and my coworkers because like, I am very familiar
with all of these characters, um and I think of
something like Guardians of the Galaxy, where it's like no

(34:10):
one knew who those who those characters were, but people
just trusted the Marvel brand so much at that point
that they were willing to take that kind of risk
with a movie like that. Also, it was PG. Thirteen,
and I think that it also I think it's sold
the storyline better in the trailers. I think that when

(34:32):
you look at the trailers for Birds of Prey, they're
not terrible, but I don't think they properly communicate what
the film is about. And I also think that Hartley
Quinn is one of the biggest DC characters out there.
I think someone referred to her as like the fourth
tier after the Big Three, which is like Batman, Superman,

(34:53):
Wonder Woman, which is incredible for a character that's like
literally my age because she was invented. But I think
that at the point Birds of Prey came out, people
were still kind of like about d C movies, They
were still kind of about the whole vibe I think
that Suicide Squad was really bad, and people didn't know

(35:17):
if it was a sequel to Suicide Squad, they didn't
know how tired it wasn't too that. So I think
Birds of Prey unfortunately absorbed a lot of the d
C e U stigma that was already in the ether.
I would have thought that would have been over after
Chasanne and Aquamanded. Well, but you have that. Plus the
whole element of this is a female led superhero movie

(35:41):
with like all women in like two villainous dudes, and
it was the first I think it's the first female
lead combook movie of this, like Ouvra that is really
targeted and framed towards a non fid male audience. And

(36:01):
I don't mean that in an inflammatory way, but I
mean it's not. It's written by women, it's directed by women,
that character designers women. It's very diverse. You know. It's
like one of the few Marvel movies that will call
a character gay in the text. Um. It is one
of the few to have like actual like an older
Latina lesbian woman in the front and center and showing

(36:24):
up some very good delicate age at one point. So
I think it just it was it. I think it
should have done Deadpool numbers, But I don't think that
the audience for Deadpool is inherently the audience for Birds
of Prey, and that sucks because the movie is excellent.
But I think that being rated, are having a cast

(36:46):
that people didn't really know, and just being part of
a brand that has been very messy just made it
very hard for people to like take a risk on
this film. Yeah, so I guess, aside from because my
my answer, I guess was to do more promoting. Do
you think that there's something else that could have been
done to kind of get this film the attention that

(37:08):
it should have. I think that it's because because I'm
in New York, so I saw it promoted everywhere, so
it's hard to present in that kind of industry bubble.
But I think it. I think honestly, it should have
been PG. Thirteen just for like an audience boundary thing
like interne getting a broader audience, excuse me, And I

(37:30):
think it should have just done more individual poster trailers.
I think that they should have just called it um
the Birds of Prey. I think calling it The Bridge
of Prey and the Glorious emancipation of Harley Quinn, which
just too long know and knew what that meant. You
have just simplified the title, simplified the brand, and really

(37:53):
worked curated in like put more promotion when we had conventions,
more events for that, just more engagement in social media.
I think they overall did as best of a job
as they could, because I saw a lot of things
for it. But I think that that's because I'm in
New York and people, you know, put in money there.
But I think other places didn't really get that same promotion. No,

(38:16):
it's wild because when a totally different movie, but um,
when Coco came out, it was like all over l A.
But I would hear like fans and stuff on Twitter
would be like, there's I haven't seen a single billboard
or like anything for it at all in like the South,
and so it was just kind of like, I guess
maybe some places are picking and choosing where. I wonder

(38:39):
if some places they're like, oh, it's not even worth it,
they won't even go, you know. Yeah, because I had
friends who lived in like Portland, and one of my
friends lives in Kansas City and they're like, oh, yeah,
I haven't seen any promotion for it. Meanwhile, I at
Times Square being like ten different Harley Quinn posters, and
I'm like, I'm seeing a lot of it, So I
don't think it had that broad marketing campaign behind it.

(39:02):
Where are all the people who are super in the
hot topic and are like she was his queen and
he was her king and nobody spoke between them. And
it's like Joker and Harley. Where all the joker heads?
Why did they show up? Obviously not, although I guess
see that the hot topic line was phenomenal though several
cass So it's it's really difficult. And I'm like, I'm

(39:24):
looking at like the budget for this movie, and just
compared to like other big main films, it was very small.
Like the budget for Suicide Squad I'm looking it up
right now was like a hundred and seventy five million
dollars and for Birds of Prey it's between eighty and
a hundred million. So it's like, you know, a smaller budget,

(39:46):
you know, means like less marketing other places, and it
just it's a bummer. Yeah, Well, hopefully people listen to
I mean go and watch it. We haven't given anything away,
so hopefully, um, no spoilers here, and I hope that
y'all listening will go and check it out because it
is super dope, and I do hope we get another one. Um,

(40:08):
I'm pretty sure we'll continue. I mean, here's what I'm
thinking is they're gonna pull in Poison Ivy, like straight up,
I'm pretty sure that she's going to pop into one
of these if she's not already going to be in
the Batman. Um. And that's what I want to see.
I need, you know, now that Harley is broken away
from the Joker, I need to go ahead and see

(40:31):
her live her life with Poison Ivy. May have their
vegan farm together and they're growing vegetables. That's like the
world that I see next is like, now you're in
this uh if you are emancipated and you know whatnot
now you're in the healing process of like letting your
guard down with someone who understands the life that you
went through and like, I don't know very into it.

(40:54):
I've read too much fan fiction. Now that's the truth.
That's what we deserve. Yeah, give you what about you?
What do you want to see for the future of
this franchise or Black Cary I definitely want to see more,
uh more like Birds of Prey content. I like, I
like that idea that was just floated about. Uh you know,

(41:14):
if the sequel was just the Birds of Prey and
this was just an interaction with Harley, and if this
was a device you also not only introduce us to
the adventures of Birds of Prey, but slowly introduce other
female villains like you know, maybe you know, like Poison
Ivy appearance down the line, get some catwoman in there,
you know, just slowly but just introducing the new like

(41:38):
Rogues Gallery to the point where then they stopped being
you know, friends and they actually go toe to toe.
And of course I'm always pushing for having more ladies
who are quote unquote older, because having Renee montoyat like
that was just so amazing because it's just like, and
we had a great resurgence is past year of having

(42:01):
Jamie Lee Curtis and not Linda. Why am I blanket
on her name from terminator? Linda Hamilton's Linda Hamilton's say
Linda Carter. Linda Carter can come back to um. But
like I'm they're badass, like there, they can still kick
butt and like I really want to see that happening
more in these comic book films. If we can have

(42:23):
men playing like villains and superheroes until Robert Downey JRT
so like, which it doesn't feel that old to me,
but like we can have more women that are in
their fifties and sixties too. No, for sure, my dream
for my Birds of Prey sequel dream is that they
will bring in Lady Shiva, because she's Cassandra Kine's mother,

(42:48):
and uh, that would just be the And she's been
a long time Birds of Prey like antagonist, and so
it'd be perfect to bring her in and you could
just see some amazing fighting. You can get like an
older um well that actually plays Cassandra k is China
is Korean and Filipina, so you can get like a
brown Asian woman to like play this role and be

(43:11):
like this awesome martial artist and just a lot of
amazing female fight scenes. I think that'd be so cool.
I'm going to nab her from Marvel, but Angela Bassett,
I think we could. We didn't really get to see
her fighting as much, and I think I think we
can go ahead and pull her over to I just
want to see I know over there. I think Selma

(43:33):
Hyak is going to be in the Turnals, right, So
it's like just more women in their fifties and sixties
that I think are glorious and just should be kicking butt. No,
I think you know, if that's in If if Birds
of Prey the movie inspired, you definitely go out and
like support them in the comic books and buy those
comics so you know, people can can keep reading them

(43:56):
and you know, spread the gospel. That's That's what I
That's all I always like to say. I guess, Princess,
what is one that you for people that are now
interested in checking out Black Canary? Where do you have
any comics that you recommend they hop into. I definitely
recommend the Birds of Prey run that was by Gale Simone.
I think it's very good at really explaining who the

(44:20):
characters are, and you do see a lot of really
good um Dina also her standalone theories for the New
fifty two was also really excellent. She's tends to be
put a lot more in Green Arrow because I don't
think we mentioned it, but in the comics Dina Lands

(44:40):
her primary love interest is Oliver Queen the Green Arrow
they're like endgame and their relationship is great. And so
in the Green Arrow Rebirth, she plays a really big
role in that theory. So it also gives you really
good Green Arrow Black Canary content as well. Well. This
has been a another edition of Netificent Quarantined. We did it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(45:05):
I was trying to do a play on Wars, but
it didn't work. So I'm just gonna say, Princess, thank
you so much for coming on. Where can people find you?
And do you have anything to plug? I right at
the Mary Suit every day because I love it. I
also do videos for PBS for insult. You can find

(45:25):
me on Twitter at weeks Princess w E E K
E S and um, I'm just happy to be here.
You guys are great. So this was a lot of
fun for me, So thanks for having me Superhero. Um
I am at Miss Danny Fernandez and all the things.
Thank you again everyone for being patient. We are still
learning all of our audio. See it's better than when

(45:47):
our first week when we had a record on our
cell phone. That was rough. But we appreciate everyone that's
stuck around and we're going to continue to try to
bring y'all some fun good content to keep you, to
keep you company while you're clean cooking all the things
that you're doing. All the teams, Uh yeah, yeah, and

(46:08):
the same here if you wide away on Twitter and Instagram,
if ds on on Twitch, and uh, you know, after
this week, uh, super Punch will be on hiatus until May,
so I won't be on Super Punch nightly, but you know,
still tune in to my personal Twitch and hopping the discord.
The anime UH club is going off. We finished Black Lagoon.

(46:33):
Now we're trying to decide on the next UH anime
that we're gonna that we're all gonna watch. Uh and
you know, and people are talking, having lots of fun conversations.
It seems like everyone's really bonding during this quarantine in
the discord, So don't be a stranger pull up. Uh yeah.

(46:53):
And I guess, like we always say, we will never
get it, and it's okay, we'll pretend we did