January 27, 2026 • 29 mins
Join Will and Mango as they try to mediate the world’s weirdest arguments about borders, including the ongoing fight for an island of puffins and a centuries-old struggle to control a quarter mile of mountain. Plus: One man’s efforts to make his daughter an abandoned desert princess, and “the turducken of border disputes,” which involved a corner of India inside Bangladesh which was inside India but also inside Bangladesh.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Guess what Mango? What's that Will?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Did you know that the United States isn't the only
country that shares a land border with Canada? Did you
know this?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I did not know that this.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Border actually just came into existence in twenty twenty two,
So I'm not going to judge you for not knowing this,
but I did find this pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I'm curious if it's Russia, Like I can't even imagine,
like what country is border with it. But I feel
like the only geography I really know comes from playing
Carmen San Diego.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
N'sa Yeah, I'm actually with you on that, So I started.
I said do it rocapella the other day, and my
kids had no idea what I was referring to from
the the Great TV show of the nineties. But well,
you wouldn't find this piece of land on most globes anyway,
because we're talking about a very small barren rock in
the middle of the Nares Strait. It's the waterway between
(01:13):
Canada and Greenland, which of course is a Danish territory,
and in nineteen seventy three, Canada and Denmark established a
border through the Nair Strait to separate their territories, but
that boundary was drawn directly through the Hans Island, which
is about three quarters of a square mile in side,
so really really small. Now, the countries couldn't agree on
who should get the island, so they just decided to
(01:35):
deal with the problem of this pesky rock at a
later time.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And it took them what about like fifty years to deal.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
With Yeah, yeah, and not without some drama along the way.
So you go back to nineteen eighty four and Canadian
troops set off to claim Hans Island. When they arrived,
they planted a flag which Eddie Izzard once taught us
that basically claims it like it's yours once you put
the flag in, and left a bottle of Canadian in whiskey,
which I actually found pretty funny. So in response to this,
(02:03):
Denmark's Minister of Greenland Affairs also went to Hans Island
and he replaced the Canadian flag with a Danish one
and left a bottle of schnapps from Copenhagen with a
note that read welcome to Danish Island. And this launched
what the press has dubbed the Whisky War.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So I remember learning about the Whiskey Rebellion in school.
This seems much.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
More good natured than that.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It does, at least a little more fun. So over
the years, representatives of both countries went to Hans Island
to put up flags and or leave bottles of alcohol,
and so these expeditions were often strategic moves by politicians
to get some positive press, you know, of course, during
election seasons. And then in twenty twenty two, the two
countries finally agreed to establish a border through the middle
(02:48):
of the rock. Though technically Denmark made out a little
bit better, getting about sixty percent of Hans Island. But
the story hamenes that, you know that those rascals. But
the story does have a happy ending because the foreign
ministers of Denmark and Canada ended the war in the
most appropriate way. They of course exchanged bottles of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh I love that, and I actually love that we're
talking about national borders because they are so strange to me,
like often they just seem like arbitrary lines on maps,
or they actually have these like weird convoluted histories, so
of course they lead to disagreements. But today We're going
to tell you about nine of the world's strangest, most
unusual border disputes, from a famous mountain that's in multiple
(03:32):
countries to a survey accident that's still wreaking havoc amongst
two US states.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the part time genius. I'm
Will Pearson, and as always, I'm here with my good
friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the booth
wearing a brick patterned T shirt and sipping a Seattle's
Best coffee. That's our Palin producer Dylan Thinggan Meg. I
don't know about you, but I got this one right away.
Clearly it's a reference to the now defunct Borders Bookstore,
(04:20):
because today is all about Borders.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I love watching Dylan salute these defunct retail stores, right it's.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Sort of his main thing.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, such a batter radio shack and Zar's and whatever.
But great job, Dylan, So I know, like you, I
loved Borders. It was such a great bookstore. Metal Floss
obviously used to get great rack space there and they
were so sweet ones. But did you know that Borders
(04:50):
Bookstore isn't called that because these books take you on
a journey. It was actually named for its founders, Tom
and Lewis Borders.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Tom and Lewis Borders, sort of like Check and Daniel
Circuit City, right, the founders of Circuit City exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Speaking of which, let's get into our next disputed border.
So fans of mountain climbing might be familiar with this
place because the moment it was first submitted in seventeen
eighty six is often called the birth of modern mountaineering.
And I'm talking about the tallest mountain in Western Europe.
It stands at fifteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy six
feet high. It is Mont Blanc in the Alps, but
(05:28):
some folks know it by its Italian name Il Bianco,
because it is right on the border of France and Italy,
causing some issues over where exactly that boundary bisecxs of
the mountain.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I mean, I could see that being tricky, mountains aren't
exactly great for making straight lines.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, and you know, you see that problem in the
Himalias with India and China and Timba and like all
these other places. But in this case, the problem comes
down to two conflicting treaties so after defeating the Savoy
kings in seventeen ninety six, Napoleon Bonaparte signed the Carrasco Armistice,
which gave him Savoy and nice including a nice, big
(06:05):
chunk of mont Blanc. Now it's no surprise the French
preferred this treaty, But the Italians like to remind them
that all of Napoleon's treaties have since been reversed by
the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fourteen, which reorganized European
politics in the wake of his downfall. And they cite
this eighteen fifty eight agreement between France and Italy, which
(06:25):
granted them a much more generous border.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And how serious is this dispute, Like on a scale
of swapping bottles of booze on a rock to ten.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Maybe like a five, Like we're talking about an area
that's less than half a square kilometer. Yet they've been
trying and failing to resolve the disagreement since eighteen fifty eight,
and things have gone a little tense in twenty fifteen
when a local French mayor made moves to close a
gate that led to the Gigante or Giant Glacier, which
(06:54):
is on the Italian side of the mountain, and this
limited access to one of Italy's points of pride, Fujo Torino.
So the French claimed it was a matter of protecting
the environment and keeping climber safe, but Italian authorities got
really angry. Another issue popped up in twenty nineteen when
France implemented wildlife protection measures that included the area beneath
(07:16):
this point. Again, this was considered an overstep of Italy's boundaries,
and as of today, the dispute is still ongoing, so
we kind of have to wait and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, it's hard to think of France and Italy
fighting when they actually could just be sitting down to
exchange plates of their equally delicious cuisines.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And I would also like to attend that meeting for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
All right. Next up, we have the Machaia Seal Island.
This is a fifteen acre island that's equidistant from the
US and Canadian coast. Now specifically, it's about twelve miles
from both Cutler, Maine and Nova Scotia's Grand Munan Island.
Depending on who you ask, it belongs to the US
or Canada.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And is there anything they're worth arguing over.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, it depends on how you feel about puffa mango.
How do you feel about puffins? I am pro puffin.
All right, Well, that's about all there is on this
island in terms of inhabitants. But there's also a lighthouse
which belongs to Canada, so the US refuses to recognize it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So what happens that like Americans who happen to land
on this island just kind of walk past the lighthouse
and ignore it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, Yeah, I mean, we don't talk about the lighthouse mango.
But according to my research, it really is hard to
justify claiming this place as American. So in sixteen twenty one,
the charter that established Nova Scotia as a British colony,
it specified that it would include land that quote is
within six leagues of any part of the coast. Six
leagues is about eighteen miles, so that would include Machia
(08:42):
Seal Island. But the American government prefers this seventeen eighty
three Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War and
granted them quote all islands within twenty leagues of any
part of the shores of the United States. Now, the
problem is that with this specific treaty, it excludes any
islands belonging to Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
That is so crazy that all these treaties got ridden
without checking to see if there are other treaties that
might you know, like for that a conflict.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You got to check all your treaties, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Well, if you go by the treaty that came first,
it's clear this island belongs to Canada. But I don't
get it if there's not much except puffins, Like, why
does the US even care about this area?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, first of all, don't devalue puffins. I just want
to go ahead and say that on behalf of them.
But also, the island sits in a region of water
known as the Gray Zone, and whoever controls the island
also controls that part of the ocean. So both US
and Canadian workers fish for lobsters in those waters, and
as climate change pushes lobsters further north, being able to
fish there becomes more and more important.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Which makes sense. And is there any chance of this
getting results soon?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Well, the conversation pops up from time to time, but
it's an issue that just doesn't have a lot of
political momentum. Of course, there's another question that comes up
when you look at the history here, like was any
part of the island re Britons to give? And in
this case, it's believed that the Passamaquaddi nation was the
first to use the island. But of course they're conspicuously
absent from these conversations. And in fact, the name Machayas
(10:12):
is a native word meaning bad little falls.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
What a weird name for Alan, but I like it well.
Our next dispute goes beyond islands. In fact, it's almost underwater,
and I'm talking about the Minerva Atoll in the Pacific Ocean.
So these are circular coral reefs. They rise barely a
couple of feet out of the water, and they may
(10:36):
be part of Tonga, which is about two hundred and
sixty miles away, or Fiji, which is around four hundred
and fifty miles away. Now, the two countries have been
disputing about this.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Area for decades, all right, I feel like there has
to be a lot more to this story. So why
would either country want to claim a couple of partially
submerged reefs.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I have that same question, And the truth is
there are a few reasons. So these atolls are located
in the Southern Pacific, and it's in an area known
for its deposits of valuable minerals. So this includes things
like cobalt and copper, manganese, even nickel, so it is
an area that could be worth hundreds of millions of
dollars in mining licenses. There are also these cultural considerations, right,
(11:16):
so like both Tongans and Fijians have been fishing in
the region for a very very long time. But we
can actually trace the dispute back to a specific year.
This goes back to nineteen seventy one and one man
it was a wealthy real estate developer. His name is
Michael Oliver. He was actually born in Lithuania but lived
in Las Vegas at the time, and he had this
(11:39):
idea to create a man made island on top of
the northernmost reef and to turn it into his ideal
libertarian nation. Now, Oliver and a crew dumped massive quantities
of sand onto the reef, and then they added a
stone tower and planted a flag for their newly founded
Republic of Minerva. And they even had some coins minted.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Just nuts because you know, just because you pile up
some sand and meant some coins. That doesn't mean you
have a nation, right or does it?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It is wild. Allegedly, Oliver expected to have thirty thousand
settlers join him in his republic, which might have given
him more credence, but as you might expect, the nations
near the reefs were not impressed by his scheme. In
June of nineteen seventy two, the King of Tonga claimed
a twelve mile area surrounding the reefs as traditional fishing grounds,
(12:27):
and he sent one hundred troops to tear apart all
of our structures, and then he had a band played
the Tongan national anthem there so, and then soon the
Intergovernmental South Pacific Forum, which includes heads of states from Fiji, Nauru,
Western Samoa, also the Cook Islands, they issued this official
announcement and it recognized Tonga's historical association with these reefs,
(12:50):
and you know that their government's continuing interest in the
area sort of pre supposed all this stuff. But the
wording was intentional in not recognized saying any official sovereignty
over the reefs. So Oliver was thwarted. But you know,
they left the question open. And when the UN Convention
on the Law of the Sea went into effect in
(13:10):
nineteen ninety four. It actually established exclusive economic zones extending
two hundred nautical miles from each nation's coastline. So authorities
in Tonga believe that gives them a certain claim over
the reefs. But under that treaty, Fiji and Tonga's economic
zones overlap, which of course complicates matters.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So how has that dispute actually played out between Fiji
and Tonga.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
There have been a few incidents over the years, like
one time Fijians tore down some navigational equipment that was
put up by Tongans. In twenty fourteen, Tonga's land minister
publicly suggested giving up the Minerva Reefs in exchange for
Fiji's Lao Islands, which actually make up half of Fiji's
land mass, so you know, they didn't really take the
(13:53):
idea seriously. Both countries have filed complaints and counterclaims with
international authorities, but as of right now, it seems like
there's no resolution in sight. But one thing that is
not disputed the fact that we have to take a
quick break, so we will be back with more weird
border stories in just a minute.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on
your favorite podcast app, and for extra credit, leave us
a nice rating and review. The last review we have
is from Declan, who says, quote The Pirate One is
my favorite. I've been listening to it for six months,
as in read listening to it, which I love that
so much, Declan. If you write to our high geniuses
(14:51):
at gmail dot com account and send me your address,
I will draw you a picture of pirate or maybe
just a parrot that belongs on a pirate's shoulder, and
I'll you on a postcard.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
That's pretty great, all right, Mango. So for our next fact,
I've got a question for you. Have you ever wondered
how people back in the day were able to calculate
and mark state borders without any of the modern technology
we have today.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I have definitely thought about this because I grew up
in Delaware and in some of my friend's backyards, when
you'd be out playing in the woods, you could actually
walk into Pennsylvania. But we didn't know where that border was. Like.
We just knew that if you wandered back a bit,
you were actually over the line.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh wow. Well, borders, it turns out, can be pretty
messy things like consider the Georgia Tennessee border. For instance,
in seventeen ninety six, Congress officially set Tennessee's southern border
at the thirty fifth parallel, and in eighteen eighteen, surveyors
accidentally marked the boundary about a mile south of where
it was supposed to be. And that's thanks to these
typo laden labels that they were consulting. Plus they were
(15:50):
using equipment that was outdated even by eighteen eighteen standards.
And in fact, to this day, Georgia and Tennessee officials
both agree that that's what happened here. But they don't
agree on is whether anything should actually be done about it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That's really funny and it's amazing that they agree. But
if it's just off by a mile, like, what is
the big deal?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well? Water, actually, so the main point of contention is
Lake Lanier, which is in the northwest corner of Georgia
but under Tennessee's jurisdiction. So the lake is fed by
the Tennessee River and it provides drinking water. So Georgian's
attempts to claim it usually happened during drought time. So
obviously water rights are very serious business, but there have
been some goofy moments along the way. So like in
(16:30):
two thousand and eight, officials from Chattanooga snarkily sent Tennessee
water to Georgia's legislature. This was in reaction to their complaints,
and Georgia responded by foe arresting the crew who delivered it.
So the dispute resurfaced in twenty thirteen when Georgia lawmakers
authorized their state attorney general to sue Tennessee for access
(16:50):
to drinking water in the area. In response to that,
Tennessee state Representative Jason Powell was quoted as saying, as
far as I'm concerned, Georgia can keep its greedy hands
and it's thirsty mounts away from our water.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Thirsty mouths.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's right, some of those thirsty mounts. So it's a
difficult problem to solve it as a state border dispute.
The place for it is probably the Supreme Court, but
the issue actually hasn't had enough traction to get there.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I love how like theatrical some of this stuff is right,
like Tongo sending an army, like like Georgia fake arresting
these people for sending water over like it's so ridiculous wild.
It also seems like this recurring theme with these disputes,
like people are upset, but you know, it gets stuck
in this stasis, right, like it doesn't seem to move forward. Okay, Well,
(17:36):
so our next border conundrum involves a kind of territory
known as an enclave. So this is a sovereign territory
it's fully surrounded by in other countries. So if you
think about the Vatican, that's actually a good example. It
is its own sovereign state, but it's totally enclosed by Italy.
And this kind of thing used to be way more
common before the era of modern map making and nation states,
(17:59):
but they're there's still plenty of them around the world.
And there are even second order enclaves, And I'm curious,
do you know what those are, just like lesser enclaves,
Like is there an enclave ranking system or something? There
might be, but that's not what I'm talking about. So
a second order enclave is an enclave within another enclave.
And in the year twenty fifteen, the world's last third
(18:22):
order enclave came to an end.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, and I do know what those are. Those are
enclaves within an enclave, within an enclave, obviously.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, So I'm talking about this place called Dala Kagabari,
and this was one point seven acres of Indian land
and it was surrounded by this Bangladeshi village, which was
surrounded by an Indian village which was all contained within
the nation of Bangladesh. So Smithsonian Magazine actually referred to
this as the Turduccan of border disputes, which is kind
(18:54):
of amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That is a pretty great term. So how on earth
does something like this happen?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean, the history is really complicated, and often in
a way that made many people's lives worse. It would
obviously take hours to tell the whole story of India
and Bangladesh and the conflicts around those borders, but suffice
it to say, by twenty eleven, India and Bangladesh had
over one hundred and sixty enclaves that they began the
process of exchanging. Now, no one knows exactly how this
(19:20):
all came to be. There are some incredible legends about this.
Some people blame generations of maharajas who were gambling land
away or there is one theory about a drunk colonial
brit who knocked ink onto a map, But the reality
is that they're probably the result of the Mogul Empire's
expansion attempts, right, and the locals suffered for it. So
(19:42):
imagine if you were traveling to the next town over
and that actually meant you were crossing national borders. So
because of this, people had trouble exercising basic human rights right,
Like it was hard for people to get ideas, it
was hard for them to get education. It was really
really complicated. But trying to solve this dispute is also difficult.
So one of the many ramifications of this enclave exchange
(20:04):
was the erasure of the world's only third order enclave,
and this happened in twenty fifteen, India signing agreement that
actually gave the entire area to Bong Thish.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That is wild, all right. Well, this next dispute is
also real, but it has a fictional tie in. Now,
if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, or at
least the TV adaptation, you already know that the Dathracky
Grasslands are a real place. It's a steep plateau that
looms over this sixteen mile long inlet called Loch Foil.
One side of Lockfoil belongs to Northern Ireland and the
(20:35):
other to the Republic of Ireland. Now, this boundary dates
back to nineteen twenty two when Ireland was partitioned, so
the south became the independent Republic of Ireland while the
north remained part of the United Kingdom. Now, going from
one end of the bay to the other meant that
you're crossing this border. But the nineteen nineties brought significant
change to the situation, like the creation of the European
(20:57):
Single Market and the Good Friday Agreement Peace Accord, which
established a cross border body to regulate this area. So
the border infrastructure was taken down and it was no
longer totally clear where Northern Ireland ended and the Republic
of Ireland began. But Britain still claimed the water up
to the high tide mark, and this was a claim
that was rejected by the Irish government. I Meanwhile, locals
(21:18):
started crossing back and forth whenever they wanted.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Basically, that sounds a lot easier than having to bring
your passport just across the lake, definitely, But there's just
one big remaining issue, which is oyster farming because there's
no clear sovereignty over the water, there's minimal regulation, so
people have been getting away with unsustainable farming practices and
it's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years
or so. So in twenty fourteen, the area had two
(21:45):
thousand local oyster trestles, which are the racks used for
oyster farming. By twenty twenty one, so just seven years later,
there were more than sixty thousand of these two thousand
to sixty thousand. Disputes over which you know, country controls
the lock foil pop up repeatedly, and yet the problem
remains unresolved, and this has caused a major impact on
(22:06):
the local marine and even the avian life there. Okay,
so this next one also involves a waterway, one that's
very close to home for me because it is actually
in New York City. So, as my fellow New Yorkers know,
the Harlem River separates the island of Manhattan from the
Bronx on the mainland, right. But there is a catch,
and that is the neighborhood of Marble Hill. It is
(22:28):
this forty two acre enclave north of the Harlem River
that is in the Bronx but technically it's still a
part of Manhattan, and weirdly, for almost two decades it
was an island unattached to any mainland. So basically, Marble
Hill was originally a part of Manhattan, with spiden Devil
Creek which flowed around it. Then in eighteen ninety five,
(22:49):
the Harlem Rivership Canal was constructed to make it easier
for boats to navigate the water surrounding Manhattan. So due
to the new canal and this already existing creek, Marble
Hill became an island and it stayed that way until
nineteen thirteen when the creek was filled in. Now that
process physically attached to the Bronx, but geopolitically speaking, it
(23:11):
remained part of the Borough of Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So I'm curious, like, how do residents of the Marble
Hill feel about this? Do they identify with Manhattan or
more with the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, it's a good question. So in twenty fourteen, Bronx
Borough President Rubin Diaz told The New York Times quote,
Marble Hill residents identify so much with the Bronx that
they don't often realize they live in Manhattan until their
summoned for jeury duty, but their Manhattanite status wasn't always
a forgotten part of daily life. Things have actually gotten
(23:40):
a little contentious over Marble Hill in the past. One
Bronx Borough President, James J. Lyons, actually tried to claim
it in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And how exactly did he do that?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh? The normal way. So he and his chauffeur went
to the highest point of Marble Hill and they planted
the Bronx County flag there. Yeah, and they also declared,
quote I hereby proclaimed this territory of Marble Hill to
be part of my borrow.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, that is definitely how you would do it. And
did this work?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
The New York Times reported that one witness thumbed his
nose while a handful of others' bood lions, and the
message was booed him they wanted to be part of Manhattan,
and subsequent petition sent to the New York Governor reinforced
that stance. So it has stayed part of Manhattan, only
for future residents not to even realize where they lived.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Wow, that's another wild one.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
All right.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We'll finish out for our ninth fact with an eight
hundred square mile section of desert located between Egypt and Sudan.
The desert is called beer to Will and its ambiguous
status can be blamed on British colonialism. So basically, Egypt's
territory once included all of Sudan, but the British decided
to divide these two countries back in eighteen ninety nine.
(24:55):
Three years later, they added an amendment after realizing the
original border was inconsistent with the ethnic composition in the area.
So this amendment gave a chunk of the coastline along
the Red Sea over to Sudan. Well, Egypt got beer
to Will. Now the coast has these valuable minerals like gold,
so the area is worth way more than a big
plot of desert where nobody really wants to live. And
(25:17):
so for that reason, the folks in Egypt said, no,
we disagree with that nineteen oh two version of the border.
We'll stick with the one that was drawn three years earlier,
thank you very much. So beer to Will is kind
of collateral damage here, because if Egypt claimed it, they
would be acknowledging the border they don't agree with, and
if Sudan claimed it, they would be going against the
border drawn in nineteen oh two that they actually prefer.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I mean, if I had a choice between gold and desert,
I'd go for the gold, right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I'm curious. I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, you're saying this little section of desert really has
no value.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I mean not much. It's basically just some dunes, some
black rock, dry river beds. But you know, one complication
is that by not claiming it, and Sudan are leaving
this area open for random people to do so. So
in twenty fourteen, a farmer from the US actually went
all the way to Berta Will and planted a flag
once again, a flag for what he deemed is I know,
(26:14):
it's really amazing, but he deemed this his new territory,
the Kingdom of North Sudan. This was all an attempt
to make his daughter a princess, but that's not really
how things work, of course, like you have to have
some reasonable standing to go around claiming land and getting
recognized as a sovereign state, even if it's seemingly unclaimed land.
Though this hasn't stopped others from trying, including an amateur
(26:36):
radio enthusiast from Russia. This was in twenty fifteen, I think,
and later a barrister from South London.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Oh, man, that is so fascinating. I feel like you
and I need to like print up some flags. There's
a lot of territory to claims.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
For that fact, I.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Really think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I don't know, Mango, you had some good ones. I
actually think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
So you are saying we both claim it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That's exactly what I'm saying here. It's a new dispute
for the ages.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Great well.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Of course, you are welcome to my house with flags
and bottles of boos whenever you want. But that is
it for today's episode. If you have a question or comment,
or if you want to suggest an idea for the show,
you can always call our hotline. It is three oh
two four oh five five nine two five. We love
hearing your voicemails. You can also send us an email
(27:30):
at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's Hi, Geniuses
at gmail dot com. You can also find us on
Instagram and Blue Sky, where we are at part time genius.
This episode was written by our wonderful friend Meredith Danko. Meredith,
you are the best. We'll be back next week. But
in the meantime from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself.
(27:52):
Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is
a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by
my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known for almost
(28:15):
three decades now. That is insane to me. I'm the
utter co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary
Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm going to
fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier, who
I've also known for like a decade at this point,
maybe more. Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is
(28:37):
always dressed up, always cheering us on, and always ready
to hit record and then mix the show after he
does a great job. I also want to shout out
the executive producers from iHeart my good pals Katrina and
Norvel and Ali Perry. We have social media support from
Calypso Rawless. If you like our videos, that is all
Calypso's handiwork. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and I Heart Radio,
(29:00):
Visit the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
App, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That's it from us here at part time Genius, thank
you so much for listening.
You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Guess what Mango? What's that Will?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Did you know that the United States isn't the only
country that shares a land border with Canada? Did you
know this?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I did not know that this.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Border actually just came into existence in twenty twenty two,
So I'm not going to judge you for not knowing this,
but I did find this pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I'm curious if it's Russia, Like I can't even imagine,
like what country is border with it. But I feel
like the only geography I really know comes from playing
Carmen San Diego.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
N'sa Yeah, I'm actually with you on that, So I started.
I said do it rocapella the other day, and my
kids had no idea what I was referring to from
the the Great TV show of the nineties. But well,
you wouldn't find this piece of land on most globes anyway,
because we're talking about a very small barren rock in
the middle of the Nares Strait. It's the waterway between
(01:13):
Canada and Greenland, which of course is a Danish territory,
and in nineteen seventy three, Canada and Denmark established a
border through the Nair Strait to separate their territories, but
that boundary was drawn directly through the Hans Island, which
is about three quarters of a square mile in side,
so really really small. Now, the countries couldn't agree on
who should get the island, so they just decided to
(01:35):
deal with the problem of this pesky rock at a
later time.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And it took them what about like fifty years to deal.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
With Yeah, yeah, and not without some drama along the way.
So you go back to nineteen eighty four and Canadian
troops set off to claim Hans Island. When they arrived,
they planted a flag which Eddie Izzard once taught us
that basically claims it like it's yours once you put
the flag in, and left a bottle of Canadian in whiskey,
which I actually found pretty funny. So in response to this,
(02:03):
Denmark's Minister of Greenland Affairs also went to Hans Island
and he replaced the Canadian flag with a Danish one
and left a bottle of schnapps from Copenhagen with a
note that read welcome to Danish Island. And this launched
what the press has dubbed the Whisky War.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So I remember learning about the Whiskey Rebellion in school.
This seems much.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
More good natured than that.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It does, at least a little more fun. So over
the years, representatives of both countries went to Hans Island
to put up flags and or leave bottles of alcohol,
and so these expeditions were often strategic moves by politicians
to get some positive press, you know, of course, during
election seasons. And then in twenty twenty two, the two
countries finally agreed to establish a border through the middle
(02:48):
of the rock. Though technically Denmark made out a little
bit better, getting about sixty percent of Hans Island. But
the story hamenes that, you know that those rascals. But
the story does have a happy ending because the foreign
ministers of Denmark and Canada ended the war in the
most appropriate way. They of course exchanged bottles of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh I love that, and I actually love that we're
talking about national borders because they are so strange to me,
like often they just seem like arbitrary lines on maps,
or they actually have these like weird convoluted histories, so
of course they lead to disagreements. But today We're going
to tell you about nine of the world's strangest, most
unusual border disputes, from a famous mountain that's in multiple
(03:32):
countries to a survey accident that's still wreaking havoc amongst
two US states.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Hey there, podcast listeners, welcome the part time genius. I'm
Will Pearson, and as always, I'm here with my good
friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and over there in the booth
wearing a brick patterned T shirt and sipping a Seattle's
Best coffee. That's our Palin producer Dylan Thinggan Meg. I
don't know about you, but I got this one right away.
Clearly it's a reference to the now defunct Borders Bookstore,
(04:20):
because today is all about Borders.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I love watching Dylan salute these defunct retail stores, right it's.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Sort of his main thing.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, such a batter radio shack and Zar's and whatever.
But great job, Dylan, So I know, like you, I
loved Borders. It was such a great bookstore. Metal Floss
obviously used to get great rack space there and they
were so sweet ones. But did you know that Borders
(04:50):
Bookstore isn't called that because these books take you on
a journey. It was actually named for its founders, Tom
and Lewis Borders.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Tom and Lewis Borders, sort of like Check and Daniel
Circuit City, right, the founders of Circuit City exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Speaking of which, let's get into our next disputed border.
So fans of mountain climbing might be familiar with this
place because the moment it was first submitted in seventeen
eighty six is often called the birth of modern mountaineering.
And I'm talking about the tallest mountain in Western Europe.
It stands at fifteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy six
feet high. It is Mont Blanc in the Alps, but
(05:28):
some folks know it by its Italian name Il Bianco,
because it is right on the border of France and Italy,
causing some issues over where exactly that boundary bisecxs of
the mountain.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I mean, I could see that being tricky, mountains aren't
exactly great for making straight lines.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, and you know, you see that problem in the
Himalias with India and China and Timba and like all
these other places. But in this case, the problem comes
down to two conflicting treaties so after defeating the Savoy
kings in seventeen ninety six, Napoleon Bonaparte signed the Carrasco Armistice,
which gave him Savoy and nice including a nice, big
(06:05):
chunk of mont Blanc. Now it's no surprise the French
preferred this treaty, But the Italians like to remind them
that all of Napoleon's treaties have since been reversed by
the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fourteen, which reorganized European
politics in the wake of his downfall. And they cite
this eighteen fifty eight agreement between France and Italy, which
(06:25):
granted them a much more generous border.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And how serious is this dispute, Like on a scale
of swapping bottles of booze on a rock to ten.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Maybe like a five, Like we're talking about an area
that's less than half a square kilometer. Yet they've been
trying and failing to resolve the disagreement since eighteen fifty eight,
and things have gone a little tense in twenty fifteen
when a local French mayor made moves to close a
gate that led to the Gigante or Giant Glacier, which
(06:54):
is on the Italian side of the mountain, and this
limited access to one of Italy's points of pride, Fujo Torino.
So the French claimed it was a matter of protecting
the environment and keeping climber safe, but Italian authorities got
really angry. Another issue popped up in twenty nineteen when
France implemented wildlife protection measures that included the area beneath
(07:16):
this point. Again, this was considered an overstep of Italy's boundaries,
and as of today, the dispute is still ongoing, so
we kind of have to wait and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, it's hard to think of France and Italy
fighting when they actually could just be sitting down to
exchange plates of their equally delicious cuisines.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And I would also like to attend that meeting for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
All right. Next up, we have the Machaia Seal Island.
This is a fifteen acre island that's equidistant from the
US and Canadian coast. Now specifically, it's about twelve miles
from both Cutler, Maine and Nova Scotia's Grand Munan Island.
Depending on who you ask, it belongs to the US
or Canada.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And is there anything they're worth arguing over.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, it depends on how you feel about puffa mango.
How do you feel about puffins? I am pro puffin.
All right, Well, that's about all there is on this
island in terms of inhabitants. But there's also a lighthouse
which belongs to Canada, so the US refuses to recognize it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So what happens that like Americans who happen to land
on this island just kind of walk past the lighthouse
and ignore it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, Yeah, I mean, we don't talk about the lighthouse mango.
But according to my research, it really is hard to
justify claiming this place as American. So in sixteen twenty one,
the charter that established Nova Scotia as a British colony,
it specified that it would include land that quote is
within six leagues of any part of the coast. Six
leagues is about eighteen miles, so that would include Machia
(08:42):
Seal Island. But the American government prefers this seventeen eighty
three Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War and
granted them quote all islands within twenty leagues of any
part of the shores of the United States. Now, the
problem is that with this specific treaty, it excludes any
islands belonging to Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
That is so crazy that all these treaties got ridden
without checking to see if there are other treaties that
might you know, like for that a conflict.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You got to check all your treaties, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Well, if you go by the treaty that came first,
it's clear this island belongs to Canada. But I don't
get it if there's not much except puffins, Like, why
does the US even care about this area?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, first of all, don't devalue puffins. I just want
to go ahead and say that on behalf of them.
But also, the island sits in a region of water
known as the Gray Zone, and whoever controls the island
also controls that part of the ocean. So both US
and Canadian workers fish for lobsters in those waters, and
as climate change pushes lobsters further north, being able to
fish there becomes more and more important.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Which makes sense. And is there any chance of this
getting results soon?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Well, the conversation pops up from time to time, but
it's an issue that just doesn't have a lot of
political momentum. Of course, there's another question that comes up
when you look at the history here, like was any
part of the island re Britons to give? And in
this case, it's believed that the Passamaquaddi nation was the
first to use the island. But of course they're conspicuously
absent from these conversations. And in fact, the name Machayas
(10:12):
is a native word meaning bad little falls.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
What a weird name for Alan, but I like it well.
Our next dispute goes beyond islands. In fact, it's almost underwater,
and I'm talking about the Minerva Atoll in the Pacific Ocean.
So these are circular coral reefs. They rise barely a
couple of feet out of the water, and they may
(10:36):
be part of Tonga, which is about two hundred and
sixty miles away, or Fiji, which is around four hundred
and fifty miles away. Now, the two countries have been
disputing about this.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Area for decades, all right, I feel like there has
to be a lot more to this story. So why
would either country want to claim a couple of partially
submerged reefs.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I have that same question, And the truth is
there are a few reasons. So these atolls are located
in the Southern Pacific, and it's in an area known
for its deposits of valuable minerals. So this includes things
like cobalt and copper, manganese, even nickel, so it is
an area that could be worth hundreds of millions of
dollars in mining licenses. There are also these cultural considerations, right,
(11:16):
so like both Tongans and Fijians have been fishing in
the region for a very very long time. But we
can actually trace the dispute back to a specific year.
This goes back to nineteen seventy one and one man
it was a wealthy real estate developer. His name is
Michael Oliver. He was actually born in Lithuania but lived
in Las Vegas at the time, and he had this
(11:39):
idea to create a man made island on top of
the northernmost reef and to turn it into his ideal
libertarian nation. Now, Oliver and a crew dumped massive quantities
of sand onto the reef, and then they added a
stone tower and planted a flag for their newly founded
Republic of Minerva. And they even had some coins minted.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Just nuts because you know, just because you pile up
some sand and meant some coins. That doesn't mean you
have a nation, right or does it?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It is wild. Allegedly, Oliver expected to have thirty thousand
settlers join him in his republic, which might have given
him more credence, but as you might expect, the nations
near the reefs were not impressed by his scheme. In
June of nineteen seventy two, the King of Tonga claimed
a twelve mile area surrounding the reefs as traditional fishing grounds,
(12:27):
and he sent one hundred troops to tear apart all
of our structures, and then he had a band played
the Tongan national anthem there so, and then soon the
Intergovernmental South Pacific Forum, which includes heads of states from Fiji, Nauru,
Western Samoa, also the Cook Islands, they issued this official
announcement and it recognized Tonga's historical association with these reefs,
(12:50):
and you know that their government's continuing interest in the
area sort of pre supposed all this stuff. But the
wording was intentional in not recognized saying any official sovereignty
over the reefs. So Oliver was thwarted. But you know,
they left the question open. And when the UN Convention
on the Law of the Sea went into effect in
(13:10):
nineteen ninety four. It actually established exclusive economic zones extending
two hundred nautical miles from each nation's coastline. So authorities
in Tonga believe that gives them a certain claim over
the reefs. But under that treaty, Fiji and Tonga's economic
zones overlap, which of course complicates matters.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So how has that dispute actually played out between Fiji
and Tonga.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
There have been a few incidents over the years, like
one time Fijians tore down some navigational equipment that was
put up by Tongans. In twenty fourteen, Tonga's land minister
publicly suggested giving up the Minerva Reefs in exchange for
Fiji's Lao Islands, which actually make up half of Fiji's
land mass, so you know, they didn't really take the
(13:53):
idea seriously. Both countries have filed complaints and counterclaims with
international authorities, but as of right now, it seems like
there's no resolution in sight. But one thing that is
not disputed the fact that we have to take a
quick break, so we will be back with more weird
border stories in just a minute.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on
your favorite podcast app, and for extra credit, leave us
a nice rating and review. The last review we have
is from Declan, who says, quote The Pirate One is
my favorite. I've been listening to it for six months,
as in read listening to it, which I love that
so much, Declan. If you write to our high geniuses
(14:51):
at gmail dot com account and send me your address,
I will draw you a picture of pirate or maybe
just a parrot that belongs on a pirate's shoulder, and
I'll you on a postcard.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
That's pretty great, all right, Mango. So for our next fact,
I've got a question for you. Have you ever wondered
how people back in the day were able to calculate
and mark state borders without any of the modern technology
we have today.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I have definitely thought about this because I grew up
in Delaware and in some of my friend's backyards, when
you'd be out playing in the woods, you could actually
walk into Pennsylvania. But we didn't know where that border was. Like.
We just knew that if you wandered back a bit,
you were actually over the line.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh wow. Well, borders, it turns out, can be pretty
messy things like consider the Georgia Tennessee border. For instance,
in seventeen ninety six, Congress officially set Tennessee's southern border
at the thirty fifth parallel, and in eighteen eighteen, surveyors
accidentally marked the boundary about a mile south of where
it was supposed to be. And that's thanks to these
typo laden labels that they were consulting. Plus they were
(15:50):
using equipment that was outdated even by eighteen eighteen standards.
And in fact, to this day, Georgia and Tennessee officials
both agree that that's what happened here. But they don't
agree on is whether anything should actually be done about it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That's really funny and it's amazing that they agree. But
if it's just off by a mile, like, what is
the big deal?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well? Water, actually, so the main point of contention is
Lake Lanier, which is in the northwest corner of Georgia
but under Tennessee's jurisdiction. So the lake is fed by
the Tennessee River and it provides drinking water. So Georgian's
attempts to claim it usually happened during drought time. So
obviously water rights are very serious business, but there have
been some goofy moments along the way. So like in
(16:30):
two thousand and eight, officials from Chattanooga snarkily sent Tennessee
water to Georgia's legislature. This was in reaction to their complaints,
and Georgia responded by foe arresting the crew who delivered it.
So the dispute resurfaced in twenty thirteen when Georgia lawmakers
authorized their state attorney general to sue Tennessee for access
(16:50):
to drinking water in the area. In response to that,
Tennessee state Representative Jason Powell was quoted as saying, as
far as I'm concerned, Georgia can keep its greedy hands
and it's thirsty mounts away from our water.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Thirsty mouths.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's right, some of those thirsty mounts. So it's a
difficult problem to solve it as a state border dispute.
The place for it is probably the Supreme Court, but
the issue actually hasn't had enough traction to get there.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I love how like theatrical some of this stuff is right,
like Tongo sending an army, like like Georgia fake arresting
these people for sending water over like it's so ridiculous wild.
It also seems like this recurring theme with these disputes,
like people are upset, but you know, it gets stuck
in this stasis, right, like it doesn't seem to move forward. Okay, Well,
(17:36):
so our next border conundrum involves a kind of territory
known as an enclave. So this is a sovereign territory
it's fully surrounded by in other countries. So if you
think about the Vatican, that's actually a good example. It
is its own sovereign state, but it's totally enclosed by Italy.
And this kind of thing used to be way more
common before the era of modern map making and nation states,
(17:59):
but they're there's still plenty of them around the world.
And there are even second order enclaves, And I'm curious,
do you know what those are, just like lesser enclaves,
Like is there an enclave ranking system or something? There
might be, but that's not what I'm talking about. So
a second order enclave is an enclave within another enclave.
And in the year twenty fifteen, the world's last third
(18:22):
order enclave came to an end.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, and I do know what those are. Those are
enclaves within an enclave, within an enclave, obviously.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, So I'm talking about this place called Dala Kagabari,
and this was one point seven acres of Indian land
and it was surrounded by this Bangladeshi village, which was
surrounded by an Indian village which was all contained within
the nation of Bangladesh. So Smithsonian Magazine actually referred to
this as the Turduccan of border disputes, which is kind
(18:54):
of amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That is a pretty great term. So how on earth
does something like this happen?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean, the history is really complicated, and often in
a way that made many people's lives worse. It would
obviously take hours to tell the whole story of India
and Bangladesh and the conflicts around those borders, but suffice
it to say, by twenty eleven, India and Bangladesh had
over one hundred and sixty enclaves that they began the
process of exchanging. Now, no one knows exactly how this
(19:20):
all came to be. There are some incredible legends about this.
Some people blame generations of maharajas who were gambling land
away or there is one theory about a drunk colonial
brit who knocked ink onto a map, But the reality
is that they're probably the result of the Mogul Empire's
expansion attempts, right, and the locals suffered for it. So
(19:42):
imagine if you were traveling to the next town over
and that actually meant you were crossing national borders. So
because of this, people had trouble exercising basic human rights right,
Like it was hard for people to get ideas, it
was hard for them to get education. It was really
really complicated. But trying to solve this dispute is also difficult.
So one of the many ramifications of this enclave exchange
(20:04):
was the erasure of the world's only third order enclave,
and this happened in twenty fifteen, India signing agreement that
actually gave the entire area to Bong Thish.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That is wild, all right. Well, this next dispute is
also real, but it has a fictional tie in. Now,
if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, or at
least the TV adaptation, you already know that the Dathracky
Grasslands are a real place. It's a steep plateau that
looms over this sixteen mile long inlet called Loch Foil.
One side of Lockfoil belongs to Northern Ireland and the
(20:35):
other to the Republic of Ireland. Now, this boundary dates
back to nineteen twenty two when Ireland was partitioned, so
the south became the independent Republic of Ireland while the
north remained part of the United Kingdom. Now, going from
one end of the bay to the other meant that
you're crossing this border. But the nineteen nineties brought significant
change to the situation, like the creation of the European
(20:57):
Single Market and the Good Friday Agreement Peace Accord, which
established a cross border body to regulate this area. So
the border infrastructure was taken down and it was no
longer totally clear where Northern Ireland ended and the Republic
of Ireland began. But Britain still claimed the water up
to the high tide mark, and this was a claim
that was rejected by the Irish government. I Meanwhile, locals
(21:18):
started crossing back and forth whenever they wanted.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Basically, that sounds a lot easier than having to bring
your passport just across the lake, definitely, But there's just
one big remaining issue, which is oyster farming because there's
no clear sovereignty over the water, there's minimal regulation, so
people have been getting away with unsustainable farming practices and
it's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years
or so. So in twenty fourteen, the area had two
(21:45):
thousand local oyster trestles, which are the racks used for
oyster farming. By twenty twenty one, so just seven years later,
there were more than sixty thousand of these two thousand
to sixty thousand. Disputes over which you know, country controls
the lock foil pop up repeatedly, and yet the problem
remains unresolved, and this has caused a major impact on
(22:06):
the local marine and even the avian life there. Okay,
so this next one also involves a waterway, one that's
very close to home for me because it is actually
in New York City. So, as my fellow New Yorkers know,
the Harlem River separates the island of Manhattan from the
Bronx on the mainland, right. But there is a catch,
and that is the neighborhood of Marble Hill. It is
(22:28):
this forty two acre enclave north of the Harlem River
that is in the Bronx but technically it's still a
part of Manhattan, and weirdly, for almost two decades it
was an island unattached to any mainland. So basically, Marble
Hill was originally a part of Manhattan, with spiden Devil
Creek which flowed around it. Then in eighteen ninety five,
(22:49):
the Harlem Rivership Canal was constructed to make it easier
for boats to navigate the water surrounding Manhattan. So due
to the new canal and this already existing creek, Marble
Hill became an island and it stayed that way until
nineteen thirteen when the creek was filled in. Now that
process physically attached to the Bronx, but geopolitically speaking, it
(23:11):
remained part of the Borough of Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So I'm curious, like, how do residents of the Marble
Hill feel about this? Do they identify with Manhattan or
more with the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, it's a good question. So in twenty fourteen, Bronx
Borough President Rubin Diaz told The New York Times quote,
Marble Hill residents identify so much with the Bronx that
they don't often realize they live in Manhattan until their
summoned for jeury duty, but their Manhattanite status wasn't always
a forgotten part of daily life. Things have actually gotten
(23:40):
a little contentious over Marble Hill in the past. One
Bronx Borough President, James J. Lyons, actually tried to claim
it in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And how exactly did he do that?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh? The normal way. So he and his chauffeur went
to the highest point of Marble Hill and they planted
the Bronx County flag there. Yeah, and they also declared,
quote I hereby proclaimed this territory of Marble Hill to
be part of my borrow.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, that is definitely how you would do it. And
did this work?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
The New York Times reported that one witness thumbed his
nose while a handful of others' bood lions, and the
message was booed him they wanted to be part of Manhattan,
and subsequent petition sent to the New York Governor reinforced
that stance. So it has stayed part of Manhattan, only
for future residents not to even realize where they lived.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Wow, that's another wild one.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
All right.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We'll finish out for our ninth fact with an eight
hundred square mile section of desert located between Egypt and Sudan.
The desert is called beer to Will and its ambiguous
status can be blamed on British colonialism. So basically, Egypt's
territory once included all of Sudan, but the British decided
to divide these two countries back in eighteen ninety nine.
(24:55):
Three years later, they added an amendment after realizing the
original border was inconsistent with the ethnic composition in the area.
So this amendment gave a chunk of the coastline along
the Red Sea over to Sudan. Well, Egypt got beer
to Will. Now the coast has these valuable minerals like gold,
so the area is worth way more than a big
plot of desert where nobody really wants to live. And
(25:17):
so for that reason, the folks in Egypt said, no,
we disagree with that nineteen oh two version of the border.
We'll stick with the one that was drawn three years earlier,
thank you very much. So beer to Will is kind
of collateral damage here, because if Egypt claimed it, they
would be acknowledging the border they don't agree with, and
if Sudan claimed it, they would be going against the
border drawn in nineteen oh two that they actually prefer.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I mean, if I had a choice between gold and desert,
I'd go for the gold, right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I'm curious. I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, you're saying this little section of desert really has
no value.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I mean not much. It's basically just some dunes, some
black rock, dry river beds. But you know, one complication
is that by not claiming it, and Sudan are leaving
this area open for random people to do so. So
in twenty fourteen, a farmer from the US actually went
all the way to Berta Will and planted a flag
once again, a flag for what he deemed is I know,
(26:14):
it's really amazing, but he deemed this his new territory,
the Kingdom of North Sudan. This was all an attempt
to make his daughter a princess, but that's not really
how things work, of course, like you have to have
some reasonable standing to go around claiming land and getting
recognized as a sovereign state, even if it's seemingly unclaimed land.
Though this hasn't stopped others from trying, including an amateur
(26:36):
radio enthusiast from Russia. This was in twenty fifteen, I think,
and later a barrister from South London.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Oh, man, that is so fascinating. I feel like you
and I need to like print up some flags. There's
a lot of territory to claims.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
For that fact, I.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Really think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I don't know, Mango, you had some good ones. I
actually think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
So you are saying we both claim it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That's exactly what I'm saying here. It's a new dispute
for the ages.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Great well.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Of course, you are welcome to my house with flags
and bottles of boos whenever you want. But that is
it for today's episode. If you have a question or comment,
or if you want to suggest an idea for the show,
you can always call our hotline. It is three oh
two four oh five five nine two five. We love
hearing your voicemails. You can also send us an email
(27:30):
at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's Hi, Geniuses
at gmail dot com. You can also find us on
Instagram and Blue Sky, where we are at part time genius.
This episode was written by our wonderful friend Meredith Danko. Meredith,
you are the best. We'll be back next week. But
in the meantime from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself.
(27:52):
Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is
a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is hosted by
my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known for almost
(28:15):
three decades now. That is insane to me. I'm the
utter co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer is Mary
Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm going to
fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier, who
I've also known for like a decade at this point,
maybe more. Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is
(28:37):
always dressed up, always cheering us on, and always ready
to hit record and then mix the show after he
does a great job. I also want to shout out
the executive producers from iHeart my good pals Katrina and
Norvel and Ali Perry. We have social media support from
Calypso Rawless. If you like our videos, that is all
Calypso's handiwork. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and I Heart Radio,
(29:00):
Visit the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
App, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That's it from us here at part time Genius, thank
you so much for listening.
Part-Time Genius News
Hosts And Creators
Will Pearson
Mangesh Hattikudur
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