February 27, 2026 • 40 mins
Is our obsession with cleanliness keeping us from peak health? Also, can hookworm cure allergies? Will harvesting panda poop make you rich? Plus: Why Amish dust is superior to other dust (seriously!). Featuring Penny Sarchet.
This episode originally aired on June 14, 2017.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what mango?
Speaker 2 (00:00):
What's that will? So I was traveling last week and
as I go through security, I'm waiting on my bag
to be scanned, and I catch this strong whiff of
pure ol and it reminded me to pull mine out,
because there's something about all this stuff going in and
out of bins that really grosses me out. But then
I realized mine wasn't on me. So I looked at
the end of the moving belt and I saw there
was a dispenser. I walk over and I put some
(00:21):
of that magic on my hands. Ten feet after that,
there was another dispenser. Suddenly I started noticing these things everywhere.
I could have gone swimming in all the hand sanitizer
available to me. It's something so present in our lives.
My son just calls it hand sand hand sand. I
hope that takes off me too, And it made me
wonder how did hand sanitizer become such a thing, And
it turns out it goes all the way back to
(00:42):
this woman named Goldie Lipman, who worked at a rubber
plant in the forties. At the time, workers would use
benzene to get carbon off their hands, which is super harsh.
So Goldie and her husband Jerry, invitted a more gentle,
waterless cleaner. It's this classic startup story. They lived in
their parents' attic, they mixed up test batches the laundry machine,
and then they packaged it in pickle jars. Right, so artisical,
(01:06):
I know. But then they tried to sell the stuff
and it didn't go so well.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
How come?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, no one wanted to try this goofy stuff, you know,
So Jerry came up with a sales trick. Just before
a meeting. He scored a little dab on his palm.
Then when someone would shake his hand, they'd get startled
because who wants to feel this cold, wet glob and
a handshakes It's.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Pretty gross, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
But as they rubbed it to get it off, the
factory stains would vanish from inside their palms, which I
guess is pretty smart. It's a genius, I think. And
so this is the proto PUREL and today hand sanitizers
are everywhere. But looking at all the hands sand around us,
it got me wondering are we being over protective?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
How clean should we be?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And that's the question we're tackling on today's part time genius. Hey,
there podcast listeners, I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm
(02:08):
joined by my good friend Mangash hot ticketter, and you're
listening to Part Time Genius now today I can barely
recognize Mangosh because he's currently wrapped in plastic wrap from
the office kitchen. Any reeks of hand sanitizer? Did I
use too much?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, maybe a little.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, I know Purell is more your thing, but ever
since doing all this research on germs this week, I'm
thinking of making it my signature scent. Like how prints
always smell like lavender.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I can't say that I was aware of this.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, used to smell like heavy, heavy lavender, and his
friends used to say that they could smell his presence
like a full minute before he entered the room. So
you'd be sitting there and you'd feel this hit of
lavender and then oh, you'd just appear like an angel. Anyway,
after this week, I'm thinking of doing that with Purel.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think that's a that's a brilliant plan, Mango. But
you know what's interesting, and I realize we're going deep
on hand sanitizer before this episode even starts. But one
of the things customers always indicate is a preference for
unscented sanitizers, but when hand sanitizer companies came out with
more a few years ago, not only did customers not
buy the fragrance ree versions, but there was concern in
(03:10):
the health community that people weren't applying enough of it
to really kill the germs. Well, I'm pretty sure I
used enough of it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But speaking of our research this week, we were reminded
yet again that science is weird because it feels like
we're always reading these contradictory reports. It's healthy to drink
wine one week, then it's not healthy to drink wine.
It's healthy to drink coffee, It's not healthy to drink coffee.
You know, it turns out it's not healthy to smoke
a bucket full of cigarettes. That is how they sell
cigarettes now today.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Still, yeah, you want to get them by the top,
that's the super cool thing to do.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And it feels like studies on germs are the same way.
I mean, we know it's good to be clean, but
we also hear reports that tell us to quit trying
to kill every germ out there. Speaking of which, before
we fully dive into this, I know we can both
be a little germaphobic, Mango, But what's one thing you
do it was a germophobe that you'd be embarrassed to admit.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I know. For me, it's that as soon as I.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Walk into a hotel room, I look for the free
shower cap and the bathroom or the plastic bag and
the ice bucket to slip over the remote control so
like a remote control condom. Oh yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So we've known each other for almost twenty years now,
and I'm not sure you know this, but I won't
take a sip out of a drink someone else has
been drinking from.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And it's not just germophobic, it's cultural. Like in India,
the tap water is undrinkable, so families tend to keep
big glass bottles filled with purified water on tables. They're
communal and they're just builled and ready to drink from.
So as a four year old, you learn to pour
water from one or two inches above your mouth, so
you're never actually touching your lips to it. And it's
(04:44):
all because you don't want to spread germs, like if
you've touched your lips to it, then you've ruined it
for everyone else. But and this is the weird part,
and it's hard for me to say out loud, but
even if my wife sees me drinking a bottle of
root beer and just takes a swig, I can't drink
it out, Like, I really can't I drink it. I
have to force myself. And so that's my big secret.
Like my sister and I both, it's this weird mixture
(05:06):
of like Indian politeness and germophobeness and sort.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Of where those things ven diagram. I think this is
really the kind of thing you shouldn't admit, not because
it's that embarrassing, but because friends love to mess with
you on things like this. It's like when friends find
out that I can't stand for my nose to be touched.
It makes me dizzy, and then they just think it's
so funny to walk up and tapy right on the
use a button nose.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's right now.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
We also wanted our podcast listeners to share some of
their more embarrassing germaphobic moments on Facebook. So if you're
up for sharing, contribute your story to our Facebook page
and we'll be mailing out a big and ridiculous prize
to our favorite three stories. What's the prize again, I
can't tell you that's going to be huge, so big.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
But let's talk about this recent cover story and New Scientists.
You know this is one of my favorite magazines. I mean, honestly,
how many times a day do I mention my love
of New Scientists? Conservatively? Maybe four hundred?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, i'd say at least yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So Penny Sarche, biomedical news editor for New Scientists, which
we've established I love, and who's going to be joining
us a little later today wrote a story titled Germ Warfare,
and in it she talks about this struggle of trying
to figure out how clean is too clean, because we
know good hygiene helps prevent infection and the spread of disease,
but we also know they are definitely good bacteria that
(06:19):
keep us well. But let's back up a little bit.
So in the late eighties and early nineties, many researchers
really started to get behind the theory that kids were
developing allergies later because they were avoiding so many infections
early in life, and they had plenty of evidence to
point to my kids are less likely to develop allergies
or asthma if they grow up on a farm or
grew up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
With a dog, or if their parents wash dishes by hand.
I mean, we're a dishwasher.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Family, so whit kids are screwed. Definitely us two. But oh,
here's a really gross one. Are you ready for this?
You might want to gargle a little more pure l
before I read this, though, so Sarche says a twenty
fourteen paper that found that children are less likely to
develop precursors to asthma if in their first year they're
exposed to particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It makes you wonder if.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
They'll eventually develop a powder made of cat hair, mice tails,
and cockroach faces that you sprinkle on your kid.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Cockroach faces. Yeah, I don't know why it has to
be faces, but it just seemed all of it was gross.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I can't even imagine that.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Actually, I read this piece in the La Times about
Amish families and their homes because the kids tend to
have considerably less asthma. And scientists actually took dust from
regular homes and then dust from Amish households, and when
they sprinkled the Amish dust in front of mice's noses,
it tended to protect the mice's airways from allergens, which
is so crazy, so amish dust. It's like a new
(07:38):
business idea, we are going to be so rich. Actually,
do you know who was really dirty and probably didn't
have much?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Ask?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Now, who's that? I can't wait for the answer on
this one.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
What is that of right?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
For some reason I got stuck in a rabbit hole
about royalty and according to the economist, kings from France
and England in the fifteen hundreds and sixteen hundreds were
the dirtiest.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like they believe hot water was the devil and that
it could open up your pores and let all sorts
of illness in. So here are a few stories I found,
like Francis Henry the fourth famously stunk of quote sweat
stables feet and Garland, oh Louis the eighth didn't have
his first bath until he was seven.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh god versa ill for all the.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Glamorous laboratories like washing with water wasn't even a concern.
And England's James the First never bathed. He only washed
his fingertips, just just the tips.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That is so gross.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But unfortunately, being healthy and living forever isn't as simple
as just saying, okay, let's be dirtier. But before we
dig into that, how about we break for a quiz.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Sounds smart, So, Mango, who do we have on the
line to play today?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So we've got two lab scientists. Their names are Bertha
and Umish, and Umesh is a special guest.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
He's your dad.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, Umesh, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh, thank you. So you know, Umesh was a chemical
engineer who worked on several agriculture products over the years.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But I heard that you actually first got.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Interested in chemistry and experiments by baking bread with your
dad as a kid in India.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Is this true? Or is Mango just making stuff up
as usual.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You used to make the week Club and we had
to modify it for gluten and other things to make it.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Should it rose and reacted with the east.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh that's wonderful. That's really neat. What a great way
to be introduced to the sciences.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And our second guest, Bertha is at the University of Alabama, Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Bertha, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Hey Ertha, Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Tell us a little bit what you do at UAB So.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I'm a genetic epigemiologist. And that does not mean that
I study skin diseases. I study genetics and TAISI diabetes
and ABCD and cardivascular disease and try and figure out
what environmental exposures can change some of our genetic outcomes.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Oh wow, very cool.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, we do the same thing, but Mengo and I
are both really into that kind of just on the side. Yeah,
speaking of on the side, I understand that when you
first got into the field, you weren't quite making enough
money to make ends meet, so you would ballroom dance
to bring in additional money.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Is this true?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I did.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I am responsible for many a wedding first dance choreography.
Oh well y yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Well, best the best science is very collaborative science. So
we've decided to let you to team up for this quiz.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Now, what are we playing, Mango.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
We're playing a game called clean Sweep. Hmm, okay, all right, now,
normally we would try to make some sort of tangential connection,
like being lab scientists, you're very good at sanitizing things.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
But we want to be honest with you here.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We just found a lot of words that rhymed with
clean and turn them into quiz questions.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So this is how it works.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
We're going to give you a clue and then you
say the word clean before the example.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So this is so stupid, Mango. You're the best at
these awful courses, all right, So give us a sample, Mango.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
So the reason we wear costumes on October thirty first.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You would say clean Halloween, right, or Elizabeth the second's title.
In England you might say clean Queen.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
All right, you guys got it? Okay, So here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We're gonna let you guys go one at a time,
but you're working together, and if one of you doesn't
get it, you can toss it to the other person. So, Bertha,
we will start with you. Question number one. A stretched
out car that glamorous people get to drive in.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Ooh clean limousine.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well for one umesh an underwater vessel the Beatles sang
about you got it all right, Bertha? A jingle jangle
hand instrument. Bob Dylan asks a man to play in
the song.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Oh my Goodness, I punch and my dad as a
backup singer in a Rolling Stones band in Colin might
not this all right?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It's a jingle jangle hand instrument. It would be a
clean tambourine.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's okay, we only have to get six out of.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
This is back to you.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
The thing you mix with ginger ale in a Shirley temple. Clean,
well done, Nice there, Bertha. Okay, this one's back to you,
all right. A character with adamantium Claus from the X Men.
It's also the University of Michigan mascot.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yes, on the edge of our We're just gonna throw
them out.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Let either one of you answer. Here we go number
number six. You guys have gotten five out of six,
so you're in good shape. A colorful easter candy. The
easter bunny might leave for you a colorful candy. The
Easter bunny might leave for you.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
A clean jelly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You got it, Bertha, well done, all right. Question number
seven two left a method of execution that arose during
the French Revolution. The last time one was used and
was in France in nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
I got it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Nice job, last one, all right. Former star of Two
and a Half Men, brother to Emilio Estevez.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh gosh, it's got a dad named Martin.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh clean, yes, clean, Charlie Sheen, I don't think really exists.
So it's a mythical creature.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So how many do they? How many they get right, mango?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
So they got seven out of eight and of course
that means they win the big prize, which is a
note to your mom or or boss written from us,
which is, you know, finally the validation you've been looking for.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Wow, what a great prize. Congratulations guys.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So we're talking about the question how clean is too clean?
And before the break we were discussing how a little
more dirt in our lives might.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Be a key to healthier life.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But for anyone who heard that and decided to start
licking the floor, pull yourself together, it's a little more
complicated than that.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Although it is a little of that right, Like one
of the things I'm fascinated by is that we ingest
fifty to sixty milligrams of soil a day, and that
little bit of dirt might be helping us be healthier.
Like scientists also think playing quote social sports can help
and will I know, we like to have debates about
what a sport is, like is Badman really a sport?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Please don't get me started on.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I know you have some super strong feelings, but what's
important here is where we're getting our daily bacteria from
could actually play a big role in.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Our health, right, I mean, the reality is some bacteria
are good, some are bad. So it's more about understanding
our dun' da da microbiome. Now you're probably wondering what
a microbiome is, and for the super condensed version, let's
turn to our microbiome correspondent.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh wait, that's you. You're you're a microbiome correspondent. Mang
oh congratulations. All right, okay, talk to.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Meuch and honor, I can talk to microbiomes, so let's
stuff to ak asecon We humans like to think of
ourselves as individuals, right, like we've got big egos. But
the truth is there are as many non human cells
in our body as human cells, and because they're all
working with us, playing a vital role in our body's
success in some ways, it's more important to think of
your body like a super organism, almost like a colony
(15:18):
of ants all working together, or even a slime mold,
like all pulling in one direction. H. I know it's gross, right,
but that analogy doesn't even go far enough. In fact,
your body's more like a rainforest, and each of the
thousands of bacterial species inside you is precisely built for
a specific environment. Like the bacteria in your stomach would
die if it moved to your small intestine, and the
(15:40):
small intestine stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Would struggle if it was placed.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
In the big intestine. Like, it's actually that complicated. As
one of my science writer friends told me, humans are
more closely related to C squirts than these microbacteria are
to one another.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, And another way to think about how diverse your
body is is to like take a look at your
left hand and your right hand. Your hands feel like
they should be the same, right, Yeah, but of the
thousands of bacteria on there, your left hand and right
hand might only share one in six microbial species.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Like how bizarre is that?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That is pretty crazy?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Right, So scientists are isolating these microbes and understanding their superpowers.
They're also considering how to hack the bacteria and use
it to human advantage. Like in Sweden, doctors at a
hospital noticed that their pneumonia patients were getting infections from
feeding tubes, and the patients were having a harsh reaction
to the antibacterial sprays. So the doctors looked at this
(16:32):
bacteria in your saliva called lacto basilius plantarrum, and it's
this probiotic that helps you break down food in your saliva.
And when they spread the culture inside their patient's mounts
and on the feeding tubes, it actually stopped the infections
like no side effects.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So scientists have been using the Human Microbiome Project to
crack the code and map out all of our microbiota.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, one crazy thing about microbiomes is that scientists used
to think that how they were born might affect it,
like c sections in particular, they thought might be creating
a different type and perhaps less healthy baby than straight
vaginal deliveries. But it turns out that isn't true. I
mean it's true initially, but by six weeks the differences
aren't even detectable, which is pretty crazy because.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Kids aren't crawling around then.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
But the colonies just grow so fast in the mouth
and on the skin and then the gut that they
don't need that much exposure to grow these distinct colonies
all over their bodies.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I know, I think of toddlers being dirty, but not
really babies, dirty babies set.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But the lesson is, in general, it's healthiest to have
a wider range of microbes. So it's not quite true
to say that getting more infections as a child.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Makes us healthier later.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's really the exposure to different bacteria, and almost exclusively
exposure at a very early age. I mean we're talking
before the age of three. That's when it's pretty much set.
I mean, you know, as my mom used to say,
once your microbiome is set, your microbiome is set. She's right,
you got to set in forget it like a firm,
like a yeah, or permanent, as my grandfather would say.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
People still get perms? Is is that a thing they will? Now?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So that means the bad news for all those who
were excited to start skipping your chores and stop washing
your hands and bathing. It doesn't mean you should stop
doing any of those things.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well one sure, I mean I've read a bunch of
these reports and they all said the same thing, don't
make your bed?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
What And can I tell you one thing?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I hate this advice so much, like making my bed
is the one thing I do. It makes my room
look orderly. But even though I hate seeing this. An
unmade bed is healthier because it exposes the dust mites
in your bed sheets to sunlight and fresh air, which
you know kills them off and helps your allergies.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh man, the kids are going to really love this episode,
So don't bother making your bed. I'm behind that. But
where should we be cutting back?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Now?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Here are a few places antibacterial soaps. I mean, we've
been seeing for a couple of decades now that when
we kill too much of the good bacteria, the undesirable
bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics, which could be dangerous. Also,
clean products indoor pollution from all the cleaning supplies and
chemicals in them. The most harmful ones are often the
ones being used just to produce a good smell.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So instead you.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Should clean with things like vinegar and other products that
you'd feel comfortable cooking with.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah. So, I was actually looking into this because my
family tries to use mostly organic cleaning products for our
kid's sake, And when I was googling what you can
do to reduce the chemical sense in your home, one
of the things that comes up is a list of
recommendations from NASA. From NASA, Yeah, I just learned this.
But every year in NASA issues a list of the
best plants to help purify your home.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And they've been doing clear air studies since the eighties
because the agency wants to know what's the best way
to clean the air and space stations. So this list
of preferred plants has things like the peace lily, which
can eliminate traces of formaldehyde and benzene and ammonia. But
it's also toxic to dogs, which is kind of a
big trade off, right, like peace dogs between clear air
(19:54):
and this plant.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's all plant.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But the crazier thing to me is this record inundation
on the ideal number of plants you should have in
your house. And can you guess what it is?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Four it's one plant for one hundred square feet. Like
I live in a tiny, super small apartment with a
wife and two kids, and now I have to share
it with a tiny forest, like just to breed the air.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's so speaking of our homes and finding that perfect
balance of clean Penny Sarchet describes as science approved hygiene
sweet spot, So that is you're not looking to completely
sterilize your home. It's more about focusing on getting rid
of harmful bacteria in places. This bacteria is most likely
to be in places we come into contact with, so
kitchen surfaces, doorknobs, bathroom light switches. But as long as
(20:42):
we're talking about Penny, what do you say we get
her on the phone and give her a little quiz
and that sounds great? All right? So we've been talking
about new scientists a lot and how much we love
new scientists. And you know how excited I have, I
hope because we have a biomedical news editor joining us today,
(21:03):
Penny Sarche. She's going to talk to us about her
article and a few other questions that we have, but
also to play one of your ridiculous games. She may
regret this visit. What's the game we're going to be playing.
It's some not so dirty words. Okay, all right, Well
we'll find out more about that in a bit, but Penny,
welcome to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Thanks so much for writing the story and for joining us.
I do have to start up by asking you about
this quote that, to be honest, kind of made me
feel nauseous when I read it. So you were talking
about a twenty fourteen paper that found that children are
less likely to develop asthma or precursors dasma. I guess
you said in their first year if they're exposed to
particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, what do we do about this, Penny?
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I know it's really grim, isn't it. I think the
difficult thing is you can measure these things and find
me associations, but working out like the cuisation and what
that actually means is a cockroach particle food for a child,
It's an entirely different experiment and one that you're not
ever going to do so I wouldn't aim to have
(22:09):
a sealthy home, but I think the best way to
see that kind of thing is more an indication that
it's not as simple as let's just be dirty or
let's just be clean. And I think some of the
further research that I did after coming across that paper
kind of suggested that these things, like the fact that
you were exposed to cat hair, also meant you were
(22:29):
probably exposed to other things related to the cat. So
it might not have been the cat hair or even
the cat peces that you may have come into contact
with it's the fact that the cat might have been
bringing soil into your home, for example, and perhaps some
of the bacterian soil are really good for preventing asma
and young infants. But it's just it came out as
(22:50):
this quite disgusting correlation in the study.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, I'm glad to know that it's not necessarily the
cat feces that you said.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
That's like that to you.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So, Kenny, I, I thought you did a really nice
job of describing a clean sweet spot in your article,
and I was so curious if you could just describe
that for our listeners a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, it's's quite helpful for me too. So it's basically
almost like a priority system. So you should really focus
on being clean at the most important sites and places
in your home and at the most important times, and
that stops you from spreading infection and getting sick. But
it also means you're not spending your entire life needlessly
(23:31):
cleaning your home from top to bottom. So the place
has been talking about you know, taking a kitchen surfaces
and cooking, but also in touch points, so light switch
is door or like taps as well, just things that
you touch a lot and you might pass things on
to who you're living with. And then in terms of times,
(23:52):
it's obviously when you go to the bathroom and when
you're cooking and when you're eating, but also if someone's
sick in the house, you might want to sort of
unpup how clean you are and how often you've clean
down these touch points, because if someone in your family
has neurovirus and is throwing up regularly, you're obviously at
a much higher risk of spreading things around the home
(24:12):
and the family. Then say, you know you've got a
clean bill of health and no one's obviously ill.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
The whole study around the microbiome is just so fascinating,
and it feels like we're still so early and understanding
the microbiome. What kinds of things are you guys thinking
about at new scientists right now, or things you think
will be able to better treat as we as we'd
better understand the microbiome.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well, so it's so difficult to note because there's just
endless conditions that seem to be linked in some way
to the microbiome, like everything from Alzheimer's to obesity, and
we're still really only sort of unraveling those links and
we're still quite a long way from working out how
usefully we can use this, but there haven't stopped lots
(24:55):
of people from already developing like sprays and treatments and
all kinds of things you can buy online to kind
of change the bacteria in your skin or in your gut,
and we don't really know whether those work yet and
if so, how there are a few things we know,
so in some places, fecal transplant, so that really is
just a transplant of poo is allowed or has been
(25:19):
approved as a treatment for seed difficiles, which is a
bacterial infection that is really difficult to get rid of
once you've got it. So that's kind of that's quite
a landmark in that respect that it's actually been used.
There's a treatment there, But there are people out there
who are just going ahead and doing transplants of pooh
themselves in an unregulated way. And from some kinds of
(25:42):
studies like this, there are kind of early ancdotes and
warning signs that this is obviously much more complex than
we really know yet, because there's so many species of
bacteria and we don't know what they're doing. So there's
some evidence that maybe if you were to receive a
transplant from someone you is a beef, that might actually
make you more likely to become a beef. And these
(26:04):
kinds of interesting effects that start happening when you play
around with your microbiome. So, yeah, it's really dunny days.
And the other thing we don't really know is beyond
something drastic, like if people transplant, can you really even
change your microbiome beyond the age of about three. Maybe
you obviously go through a lot of changes the first
few years of life, but once your body has been
(26:26):
colonized by whichever bacteria come on in, can you really
kind of shift it much more in a healthier or
less healthy direction. We don't really know that yet.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
You know what one thing I was curious about was
whether your behavior has changed since working on this article, Like,
when was the last time you washed your hands?
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yeah, I'm still a fan of washing my hands. I
did to the toilet before speaking to you, so they're
very keen right now. But yeah, hands watching, I haven't changed.
I was hoping actually for an excuse to wash my
hands left being a clean freak, but actually speaking into
the food hygiene and home hygiene experts who were telling
me about how many people get food poisoning in their
(27:06):
homes every year. That actually gave me no excuse to
cut back at all. But we've got a garden flat
that we're in and out all the time with bikes
and plants and things, and so much of what I'm
speaking to some of the people about soil and dirt
and just being outside. I'm a lot more relaxed now.
If we kind of walk soil in, just sweep it
off and don't need to kind of really thoroughly clean
(27:28):
the floor or anything like that. I think the only
thing there that would be really worrying was if we
had a baby that was cooling around and licking the floor.
If a well to you, that would be slightly worrying.
But that's not what I do.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
All right, Well, thank you for talking about how to
be clean, and we want to put you to the
test if you're willing to stick around and play a
game of what did you say?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
The game was called it's called not So Dirty Words,
and it's a game we expressly wrote for you since
you're a clean expert.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Here's how it works.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
We're going to take one word that sounds dirty and
give you two definitions and all you have to do
is tell us which one is the real one?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, yeah, all right, here we go. Word number one
is formication. That's not with an N but an M
as in Michael. Formication. Does it mean A A sensation
like insects crawling on your skin or b the word
veterinarians use for the tartar build up on a goat's teeth. Formication.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
That's a tough one. I think I'm gonna go with
formication insects because of maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You are absolutely right, right, she's all also an insects expert.
All right, this is a good one. Number two, this
is where did you find these?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Mano? This is ridiculous? Okay? All right? Number two? Did
you make this up? Is this a real thing?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Okay? Turtis Maximus?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is Turtis Maximus a broad shield volcano that forms in
the middle of oceanic plates or the Latin name for
the Tibetan blackbird found in the Himalayas and Pakistan. Turtis maximus.
Is it a volcano or a blackbird?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Oh? I like to think if it was a bear
it would sound more familiar. Although I can't remember what
blackbird is right now, I'm going to go with the volcano.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Oh, it's actually the blackbird.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It's a member of the thrush family. Oh, of course,
if we had just given her that hand said it
was a member of the thrush family, nailed it. So
number three, Our soul spelled a R s O l
e is our soul a Hawaiian term for meat harvested
from the tender coconut or B A ring shaped arsenic
(29:43):
based organic compound. Is it a word for the meat
harvested from the tender coconut or a ring shaped arsenic
based organic compound.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I can't tell if it's a red herring or not,
but surely.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes, you're right, well done, Okay, let's do I'm just
having too much fun.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Let's let's keep going, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The next one fart lick f A R T l
e K. You can use these words in your articles
in the future, by the way, Penny, you have our permission. Yeah,
they're good ones, all right? Is A fart lick a
Swedish method for training distance runners by varying pace and terrain,
or b a small species of antelope closely related to
the dictic. I'm gonna oh, the heart.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Sound like they should be related, right, but it's actually
a Swedish distance training.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
She needs to get three correct to win the big prize.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So let's do one more sack butt s A C
K hyphen butt?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
You do all right? Here we go?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Is it a the fourteenth century ancestor of the modern trombones,
sometimes called a sag butt or b a Viking table
used for formal banquets.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It is definitely, well you did.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
What does she want, mango?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Well, she's ellegible for our top prize, which is our
endless admiration.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh my gosh, congratulations Penny. Well, Penny, keep up the
great work. We remain huge fans of new scientists. Thanks
so much for joining us, and we hope to talk
to you again.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Thanks very much. She was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Thanks by Welcome back to part time Genius.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So before the break, Penny Sarchet.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Was chatting about the hygiene sweet spot, that is, keeping
your house clean but not too clean. It's kind of
a Goldilocks approach exactly. Since I wanted to know what
to watch out for, I got curious about the dirtiest places,
and here are a few things I found so at home,
the walls around your toilet.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
You know, you just kind of imagine it's the toilet,
but it's actually around.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Your toilet, the kitchen sponge, the kitchen sink drain, the
cutting board is a really nasty one. That toothbrush cup
where everybody keeps their toothbrushes. So some of these places
that you don't immediately think about, and one of the
huge ones the remote control. Now in hotels, two of
the nastiest places are the remote control, which of course
(32:20):
you'll no longer have to deal with thanks to our
patented part time genius remote control condoms. You should see
these on shelfs soon. And the bedside lamp switch. I
never would have guessed the lamp switched me either. So
what about airplanes? What do you think is consistently the
dirtiest place on a plane?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
That a twisty thing you put to turn to put
on the air or maybe the drinks page of the
airline magazine.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I'd say, yeah, that's a pretty specific page there, mega.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And I'm guessing it's not clean.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
But the number one dirtiest thing in some studies by
surprisingly significant margin, seems to be the tray table. What, yeah,
it's discussing if you think about it, people are using
it constantly, folding it up and it may not get clean.
And let's get back to the idea of good bacteria.
This is something we all hear more and more about
these days because of probiotics, the four hundred varieties of
yogurt in the grocery store. As a side note here, recently,
(33:10):
I saw a list of the ways you can annoy
people in your office and number one on that list
of ways was to stand behind a co worker with
a cup of that fruit on the bottom yogurt and
just stir it out that sound alone. Yeah, do you
make that list?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I did make that list. I'm the author of that list.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So there's definitely a lot to talk about with probiotics.
And that's because the gut flora is really important. And
it's important because it keeps you regular, like you don't
want to be consumpated, right, But the thousand different bacteria
in there also have a direct impact on your brain,
and studies have shown strong links between anxiety, depression, even autism,
and it's all linked to your gut flora.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
But and here's the important part. What you put in
their matters. Like in twenty thirteen, the medical journal gastro
Andrology published a paper where women ate yogurt twice a
day and the probiotics changed the makeup of their gut
flora and actually made them calmer and happier under stress tests.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Now, speaking of things we eat, it reminded me of
what might be too clean. And I've got to tell you,
I was thirty seven years old before I ever washed
a banana.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
A banana, yep, why would you wash one?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So one of my daughter's friends refuse to eat a
banana from our house until I washed it because, as
she said, my mom always washes my banana.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, if you're recommending it, I guess we should. But
let's answer the question of how clean is too clean.
Obviously you should keep washing those hands and bananas, and
pay attention to the dirty st areas of your house,
the things we touch a lot, like the light switches
and remote controls and cutting boards.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
But also, what's the best thing you can do to
expose yourself to a wider variety of good bacteria. It's
to spend more time outside, which, of course we're recommending
from a room with no windows. I love it. Speaking
of things I love. You know what time it is, Well, yep,
it's time for the fact Off, where we share all
the things we learned this week that we didn't get
a chance to mention. But before we do that, we
should probably give out our genius Award. Who do you
(35:04):
think deserves that honor today?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I think we've got to give it to miss Goldie Lipman,
who came up with the idea of Gojo the pre purel.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I mean she passed away in the seventies, but we're
going to add her to our Hall of Genius and
send the company a certificate that they could hang on
their office blooden board. So congratulations Goldie.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I'm for that.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
But back to the fact off, mangush, as we like
to say, on the part of north central Alabama where
I grew up. You first, So here's a fact for you.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
There's a guy named Jasper Lawrence who had severe allergies,
like his eyes would swell up to the point where
he couldn't see. He had intense trouble breathing, and he
decided the only way he could get his boyer to
stop attacking itself was to give it something to attack. So,
and this is the part I love. He went to
Cameroon and he intentionally walked around barefoot in areas where
(35:58):
people went to the bathroom. Oh, I know, and the
reason was to give himself hookworm. And then he started
this internet business selling hookworms to relieve people with crohns
and other autoimmune disorders, which may actually work, but comes
with all sorts of FDA and postal service complications.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I like to imagine the conversation where he's like, honey,
I tried the flonase, it didn't work, so I'm going
to move on to hookworms. So there's a psychologist from Cornell,
David Pizarro, who studies the notion of disgust. And in
one of his experiments, he had students fill out a
survey on their political beliefs, and most of them were
just filling out surveys in a crowded hallway. But then
(36:36):
he relocated a few of the groups next to a
hand sanitizer dispenser, and when he did, those groups reportedly
came back more conservative. And he found this over and
over in studies, whether it was signs about washing hands
or sanitizer or the presence of handwipes. Wherever there was
a subtle reminder of physical purity. It made a respondent
(36:56):
more conservative than they might have otherwise been. That's crazy.
So remember how we inhale fifty to sixty milligrams of
dirt a day.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
So one of the things I love is that the
Japanese government has been organizing these things called forest baths,
that's what they're called. And forest bats are basically guided
tours on destressing. A guide will teach you how to
break open a twin of sassafras and inhale and appreciate
nature and generally be more mindful. And part of it
is just reminding people how easy it is to get
in nature preserves. Yeah, but I kind of love this
(37:26):
idea that if you're going to inhale fifty milligrams of
dirt a day, let's pick where that dirt's coming from.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Okay, I like that idea too. I've got another one here.
IBM processed water. Have you heard of this? So one
of the weird things is that instead of using solutions
to clean their chips, IBM actually uses this ultra pure
water that's what it's called. They process their water so
many times, over fourteen times, that it has no specs
of dirt or particles so that it doesn't scratch the chip.
(37:53):
But the same thing that makes it great for cleaning
also makes it harmful for the body. So like in
its truest form, water will leach nutrients toward it from
other substances. And so even though it's really really ultra pure,
it's actually too clean to drink. Huh, Like drinking will
actually hurt your body.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
So there's a great Sean Bradley story that I promise relates. Now,
this is Sean Bradley, the basketball player.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, and so the escort I asked him what it
feels like to be seven foot six, and you just
generally feel miserable for the guy and his answers, like
he can't buy normal clothes, he can't buy a regular
sleeping bag, he can't buy a regular car. I mean,
you realize this world is not fit for anyone his size.
But the worst thing he said about being that tall
is that when you're seven foot six, you're looking down
(38:38):
on everything and everything is dirty. So you're seeing like
ceiling fans and tops of fridges and lockers and everything's
just gross. And as a short dude, that's not something
i'd really ever think about.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh yeah, I never thought about that at all. That's
it must be really gross. So all right, pandas, let's
talk about pandas. So pandas seem completely useless, right, They
have a bacteria in their stomach that can reduce the
mass and volume of garbage by ninety percent, which is
great because anytime you don't want to take your trash out,
you should be able to rent a pan at a
squad on your rubber. It feels like another great business idea.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I like it.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
So, speaking of what's too clean, the Mona Lisa has
actually been cleaned too often. And you know, when you
picture the Mona Lisa, you might remember she has almost
non existent eyebrows and super light lashes. But that wasn't
always the case, like she used to have thick brows,
and art analysis actually showed that all that hair got
thinned and trimmed over the years because the painting's been
(39:34):
cleaned too much.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Okay, all right, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I'm going to give it to you win the battle
this time, but I'll be back with some wild tangents
next time. That's it for today's part time genius. Thanks
so much for listening. Thanks again for.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Listening to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast,
and because we're a brand new show, if you're feeling
extra generous, we'd love it if you give us a rating.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
On Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Part Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
research team is Gabeluzier, Lucas Adams, Autumn white Field Madrano,
Austin Thompson, and Meg Robbins. Jason Hoak is our chief cheerleader.
Guess what mango?
Speaker 2 (00:00):
What's that will? So I was traveling last week and
as I go through security, I'm waiting on my bag
to be scanned, and I catch this strong whiff of
pure ol and it reminded me to pull mine out,
because there's something about all this stuff going in and
out of bins that really grosses me out. But then
I realized mine wasn't on me. So I looked at
the end of the moving belt and I saw there
was a dispenser. I walk over and I put some
(00:21):
of that magic on my hands. Ten feet after that,
there was another dispenser. Suddenly I started noticing these things everywhere.
I could have gone swimming in all the hand sanitizer
available to me. It's something so present in our lives.
My son just calls it hand sand hand sand. I
hope that takes off me too, And it made me
wonder how did hand sanitizer become such a thing, And
it turns out it goes all the way back to
(00:42):
this woman named Goldie Lipman, who worked at a rubber
plant in the forties. At the time, workers would use
benzene to get carbon off their hands, which is super harsh.
So Goldie and her husband Jerry, invitted a more gentle,
waterless cleaner. It's this classic startup story. They lived in
their parents' attic, they mixed up test batches the laundry machine,
and then they packaged it in pickle jars. Right, so artisical,
(01:06):
I know. But then they tried to sell the stuff
and it didn't go so well.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
How come?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, no one wanted to try this goofy stuff, you know,
So Jerry came up with a sales trick. Just before
a meeting. He scored a little dab on his palm.
Then when someone would shake his hand, they'd get startled
because who wants to feel this cold, wet glob and
a handshakes It's.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Pretty gross, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
But as they rubbed it to get it off, the
factory stains would vanish from inside their palms, which I
guess is pretty smart. It's a genius, I think. And
so this is the proto PUREL and today hand sanitizers
are everywhere. But looking at all the hands sand around us,
it got me wondering are we being over protective?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
How clean should we be?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And that's the question we're tackling on today's part time genius. Hey,
there podcast listeners, I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm
(02:08):
joined by my good friend Mangash hot ticketter, and you're
listening to Part Time Genius now today I can barely
recognize Mangosh because he's currently wrapped in plastic wrap from
the office kitchen. Any reeks of hand sanitizer? Did I
use too much?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, maybe a little.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Well, I know Purell is more your thing, but ever
since doing all this research on germs this week, I'm
thinking of making it my signature scent. Like how prints
always smell like lavender.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I can't say that I was aware of this.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, used to smell like heavy, heavy lavender, and his
friends used to say that they could smell his presence
like a full minute before he entered the room. So
you'd be sitting there and you'd feel this hit of
lavender and then oh, you'd just appear like an angel. Anyway,
after this week, I'm thinking of doing that with Purel.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I think that's a that's a brilliant plan, Mango. But
you know what's interesting, and I realize we're going deep
on hand sanitizer before this episode even starts. But one
of the things customers always indicate is a preference for
unscented sanitizers, but when hand sanitizer companies came out with
more a few years ago, not only did customers not
buy the fragrance ree versions, but there was concern in
(03:10):
the health community that people weren't applying enough of it
to really kill the germs. Well, I'm pretty sure I
used enough of it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But speaking of our research this week, we were reminded
yet again that science is weird because it feels like
we're always reading these contradictory reports. It's healthy to drink
wine one week, then it's not healthy to drink wine.
It's healthy to drink coffee, It's not healthy to drink coffee.
You know, it turns out it's not healthy to smoke
a bucket full of cigarettes. That is how they sell
cigarettes now today.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Still, yeah, you want to get them by the top,
that's the super cool thing to do.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And it feels like studies on germs are the same way.
I mean, we know it's good to be clean, but
we also hear reports that tell us to quit trying
to kill every germ out there. Speaking of which, before
we fully dive into this, I know we can both
be a little germaphobic, Mango, But what's one thing you
do it was a germophobe that you'd be embarrassed to admit.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I know. For me, it's that as soon as I.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Walk into a hotel room, I look for the free
shower cap and the bathroom or the plastic bag and
the ice bucket to slip over the remote control so
like a remote control condom. Oh yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So we've known each other for almost twenty years now,
and I'm not sure you know this, but I won't
take a sip out of a drink someone else has
been drinking from.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And it's not just germophobic, it's cultural. Like in India,
the tap water is undrinkable, so families tend to keep
big glass bottles filled with purified water on tables. They're
communal and they're just builled and ready to drink from.
So as a four year old, you learn to pour
water from one or two inches above your mouth, so
you're never actually touching your lips to it. And it's
(04:44):
all because you don't want to spread germs, like if
you've touched your lips to it, then you've ruined it
for everyone else. But and this is the weird part,
and it's hard for me to say out loud, but
even if my wife sees me drinking a bottle of
root beer and just takes a swig, I can't drink
it out, Like, I really can't I drink it. I
have to force myself. And so that's my big secret.
Like my sister and I both, it's this weird mixture
(05:06):
of like Indian politeness and germophobeness and sort.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Of where those things ven diagram. I think this is
really the kind of thing you shouldn't admit, not because
it's that embarrassing, but because friends love to mess with
you on things like this. It's like when friends find
out that I can't stand for my nose to be touched.
It makes me dizzy, and then they just think it's
so funny to walk up and tapy right on the
use a button nose.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's right now.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
We also wanted our podcast listeners to share some of
their more embarrassing germaphobic moments on Facebook. So if you're
up for sharing, contribute your story to our Facebook page
and we'll be mailing out a big and ridiculous prize
to our favorite three stories. What's the prize again, I
can't tell you that's going to be huge, so big.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
But let's talk about this recent cover story and New Scientists.
You know this is one of my favorite magazines. I mean, honestly,
how many times a day do I mention my love
of New Scientists? Conservatively? Maybe four hundred?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well, i'd say at least yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So Penny Sarche, biomedical news editor for New Scientists, which
we've established I love, and who's going to be joining
us a little later today wrote a story titled Germ Warfare,
and in it she talks about this struggle of trying
to figure out how clean is too clean, because we
know good hygiene helps prevent infection and the spread of disease,
but we also know they are definitely good bacteria that
(06:19):
keep us well. But let's back up a little bit.
So in the late eighties and early nineties, many researchers
really started to get behind the theory that kids were
developing allergies later because they were avoiding so many infections
early in life, and they had plenty of evidence to
point to my kids are less likely to develop allergies
or asthma if they grow up on a farm or
grew up.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
With a dog, or if their parents wash dishes by hand.
I mean, we're a dishwasher.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Family, so whit kids are screwed. Definitely us two. But oh,
here's a really gross one. Are you ready for this?
You might want to gargle a little more pure l
before I read this, though, so Sarche says a twenty
fourteen paper that found that children are less likely to
develop precursors to asthma if in their first year they're
exposed to particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
It makes you wonder if.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
They'll eventually develop a powder made of cat hair, mice tails,
and cockroach faces that you sprinkle on your kid.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Cockroach faces. Yeah, I don't know why it has to
be faces, but it just seemed all of it was gross.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I can't even imagine that.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Actually, I read this piece in the La Times about
Amish families and their homes because the kids tend to
have considerably less asthma. And scientists actually took dust from
regular homes and then dust from Amish households, and when
they sprinkled the Amish dust in front of mice's noses,
it tended to protect the mice's airways from allergens, which
is so crazy, so amish dust. It's like a new
(07:38):
business idea, we are going to be so rich. Actually,
do you know who was really dirty and probably didn't
have much?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Ask?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Now, who's that? I can't wait for the answer on
this one.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
What is that of right?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
For some reason I got stuck in a rabbit hole
about royalty and according to the economist, kings from France
and England in the fifteen hundreds and sixteen hundreds were
the dirtiest.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like they believe hot water was the devil and that
it could open up your pores and let all sorts
of illness in. So here are a few stories I found,
like Francis Henry the fourth famously stunk of quote sweat
stables feet and Garland, oh Louis the eighth didn't have
his first bath until he was seven.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh god versa ill for all the.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Glamorous laboratories like washing with water wasn't even a concern.
And England's James the First never bathed. He only washed
his fingertips, just just the tips.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That is so gross.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But unfortunately, being healthy and living forever isn't as simple
as just saying, okay, let's be dirtier. But before we
dig into that, how about we break for a quiz.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Sounds smart, So, Mango, who do we have on the
line to play today?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
So we've got two lab scientists. Their names are Bertha
and Umish, and Umesh is a special guest.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
He's your dad.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, Umesh, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh, thank you. So you know, Umesh was a chemical
engineer who worked on several agriculture products over the years.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
But I heard that you actually first got.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Interested in chemistry and experiments by baking bread with your
dad as a kid in India.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Is this true? Or is Mango just making stuff up
as usual.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You used to make the week Club and we had
to modify it for gluten and other things to make it.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Should it rose and reacted with the east.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh that's wonderful. That's really neat. What a great way
to be introduced to the sciences.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And our second guest, Bertha is at the University of Alabama, Birmingham.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Bertha, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Hey Ertha, Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Tell us a little bit what you do at UAB So.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I'm a genetic epigemiologist. And that does not mean that
I study skin diseases. I study genetics and TAISI diabetes
and ABCD and cardivascular disease and try and figure out
what environmental exposures can change some of our genetic outcomes.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Oh wow, very cool.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, we do the same thing, but Mengo and I
are both really into that kind of just on the side. Yeah,
speaking of on the side, I understand that when you
first got into the field, you weren't quite making enough
money to make ends meet, so you would ballroom dance
to bring in additional money.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Is this true?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I did.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I am responsible for many a wedding first dance choreography.
Oh well y yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Well, best the best science is very collaborative science. So
we've decided to let you to team up for this quiz.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Now, what are we playing, Mango.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
We're playing a game called clean Sweep. Hmm, okay, all right, now,
normally we would try to make some sort of tangential connection,
like being lab scientists, you're very good at sanitizing things.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
But we want to be honest with you here.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We just found a lot of words that rhymed with
clean and turn them into quiz questions.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So this is how it works.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
We're going to give you a clue and then you
say the word clean before the example.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
So this is so stupid, Mango. You're the best at
these awful courses, all right, So give us a sample, Mango.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
So the reason we wear costumes on October thirty first.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You would say clean Halloween, right, or Elizabeth the second's title.
In England you might say clean Queen.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
All right, you guys got it? Okay, So here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We're gonna let you guys go one at a time,
but you're working together, and if one of you doesn't
get it, you can toss it to the other person. So, Bertha,
we will start with you. Question number one. A stretched
out car that glamorous people get to drive in.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Ooh clean limousine.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well for one umesh an underwater vessel the Beatles sang
about you got it all right, Bertha? A jingle jangle
hand instrument. Bob Dylan asks a man to play in
the song.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Oh my Goodness, I punch and my dad as a
backup singer in a Rolling Stones band in Colin might
not this all right?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
It's a jingle jangle hand instrument. It would be a
clean tambourine.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's okay, we only have to get six out of.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
This is back to you.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
The thing you mix with ginger ale in a Shirley temple. Clean,
well done, Nice there, Bertha. Okay, this one's back to you,
all right. A character with adamantium Claus from the X Men.
It's also the University of Michigan mascot.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yes, on the edge of our We're just gonna throw
them out.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Let either one of you answer. Here we go number
number six. You guys have gotten five out of six,
so you're in good shape. A colorful easter candy. The
easter bunny might leave for you a colorful candy. The
Easter bunny might leave for you.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
A clean jelly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You got it, Bertha, well done, all right. Question number
seven two left a method of execution that arose during
the French Revolution. The last time one was used and
was in France in nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
I got it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Nice job, last one, all right. Former star of Two
and a Half Men, brother to Emilio Estevez.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh gosh, it's got a dad named Martin.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh clean, yes, clean, Charlie Sheen, I don't think really exists.
So it's a mythical creature.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So how many do they? How many they get right, mango?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
So they got seven out of eight and of course
that means they win the big prize, which is a
note to your mom or or boss written from us,
which is, you know, finally the validation you've been looking for.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Wow, what a great prize. Congratulations guys.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So we're talking about the question how clean is too clean?
And before the break we were discussing how a little
more dirt in our lives might.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Be a key to healthier life.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But for anyone who heard that and decided to start
licking the floor, pull yourself together, it's a little more
complicated than that.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Although it is a little of that right, Like one
of the things I'm fascinated by is that we ingest
fifty to sixty milligrams of soil a day, and that
little bit of dirt might be helping us be healthier.
Like scientists also think playing quote social sports can help
and will I know, we like to have debates about
what a sport is, like is Badman really a sport?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Please don't get me started on.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I know you have some super strong feelings, but what's
important here is where we're getting our daily bacteria from
could actually play a big role in.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Our health, right, I mean, the reality is some bacteria
are good, some are bad. So it's more about understanding
our dun' da da microbiome. Now you're probably wondering what
a microbiome is, and for the super condensed version, let's
turn to our microbiome correspondent.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh wait, that's you. You're you're a microbiome correspondent. Mang
oh congratulations. All right, okay, talk to.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Meuch and honor, I can talk to microbiomes, so let's
stuff to ak asecon We humans like to think of
ourselves as individuals, right, like we've got big egos. But
the truth is there are as many non human cells
in our body as human cells, and because they're all
working with us, playing a vital role in our body's
success in some ways, it's more important to think of
your body like a super organism, almost like a colony
(15:18):
of ants all working together, or even a slime mold,
like all pulling in one direction. H. I know it's gross, right,
but that analogy doesn't even go far enough. In fact,
your body's more like a rainforest, and each of the
thousands of bacterial species inside you is precisely built for
a specific environment. Like the bacteria in your stomach would
die if it moved to your small intestine, and the
(15:40):
small intestine stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Would struggle if it was placed.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
In the big intestine. Like, it's actually that complicated. As
one of my science writer friends told me, humans are
more closely related to C squirts than these microbacteria are
to one another.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, And another way to think about how diverse your
body is is to like take a look at your
left hand and your right hand. Your hands feel like
they should be the same, right, Yeah, but of the
thousands of bacteria on there, your left hand and right
hand might only share one in six microbial species.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Like how bizarre is that?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
That is pretty crazy?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Right, So scientists are isolating these microbes and understanding their superpowers.
They're also considering how to hack the bacteria and use
it to human advantage. Like in Sweden, doctors at a
hospital noticed that their pneumonia patients were getting infections from
feeding tubes, and the patients were having a harsh reaction
to the antibacterial sprays. So the doctors looked at this
(16:32):
bacteria in your saliva called lacto basilius plantarrum, and it's
this probiotic that helps you break down food in your saliva.
And when they spread the culture inside their patient's mounts
and on the feeding tubes, it actually stopped the infections
like no side effects.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So scientists have been using the Human Microbiome Project to
crack the code and map out all of our microbiota.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, one crazy thing about microbiomes is that scientists used
to think that how they were born might affect it,
like c sections in particular, they thought might be creating
a different type and perhaps less healthy baby than straight
vaginal deliveries. But it turns out that isn't true. I
mean it's true initially, but by six weeks the differences
aren't even detectable, which is pretty crazy because.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Kids aren't crawling around then.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
But the colonies just grow so fast in the mouth
and on the skin and then the gut that they
don't need that much exposure to grow these distinct colonies
all over their bodies.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I know, I think of toddlers being dirty, but not
really babies, dirty babies set.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
But the lesson is, in general, it's healthiest to have
a wider range of microbes. So it's not quite true
to say that getting more infections as a child.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Makes us healthier later.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's really the exposure to different bacteria, and almost exclusively
exposure at a very early age. I mean we're talking
before the age of three. That's when it's pretty much set.
I mean, you know, as my mom used to say,
once your microbiome is set, your microbiome is set. She's right,
you got to set in forget it like a firm,
like a yeah, or permanent, as my grandfather would say.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
People still get perms? Is is that a thing they will? Now?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So that means the bad news for all those who
were excited to start skipping your chores and stop washing
your hands and bathing. It doesn't mean you should stop
doing any of those things.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well one sure, I mean I've read a bunch of
these reports and they all said the same thing, don't
make your bed?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
What And can I tell you one thing?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I hate this advice so much, like making my bed
is the one thing I do. It makes my room
look orderly. But even though I hate seeing this. An
unmade bed is healthier because it exposes the dust mites
in your bed sheets to sunlight and fresh air, which
you know kills them off and helps your allergies.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh man, the kids are going to really love this episode,
So don't bother making your bed. I'm behind that. But
where should we be cutting back?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Now?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Here are a few places antibacterial soaps. I mean, we've
been seeing for a couple of decades now that when
we kill too much of the good bacteria, the undesirable
bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics, which could be dangerous. Also,
clean products indoor pollution from all the cleaning supplies and
chemicals in them. The most harmful ones are often the
ones being used just to produce a good smell.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So instead you.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Should clean with things like vinegar and other products that
you'd feel comfortable cooking with.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah. So, I was actually looking into this because my
family tries to use mostly organic cleaning products for our
kid's sake, And when I was googling what you can
do to reduce the chemical sense in your home, one
of the things that comes up is a list of
recommendations from NASA. From NASA, Yeah, I just learned this.
But every year in NASA issues a list of the
best plants to help purify your home.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And they've been doing clear air studies since the eighties
because the agency wants to know what's the best way
to clean the air and space stations. So this list
of preferred plants has things like the peace lily, which
can eliminate traces of formaldehyde and benzene and ammonia. But
it's also toxic to dogs, which is kind of a
big trade off, right, like peace dogs between clear air
(19:54):
and this plant.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's all plant.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But the crazier thing to me is this record inundation
on the ideal number of plants you should have in
your house. And can you guess what it is?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Four it's one plant for one hundred square feet. Like
I live in a tiny, super small apartment with a
wife and two kids, and now I have to share
it with a tiny forest, like just to breed the air.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's so speaking of our homes and finding that perfect
balance of clean Penny Sarchet describes as science approved hygiene
sweet spot, So that is you're not looking to completely
sterilize your home. It's more about focusing on getting rid
of harmful bacteria in places. This bacteria is most likely
to be in places we come into contact with, so
kitchen surfaces, doorknobs, bathroom light switches. But as long as
(20:42):
we're talking about Penny, what do you say we get
her on the phone and give her a little quiz
and that sounds great? All right? So we've been talking
about new scientists a lot and how much we love
new scientists. And you know how excited I have, I
hope because we have a biomedical news editor joining us today,
(21:03):
Penny Sarche. She's going to talk to us about her
article and a few other questions that we have, but
also to play one of your ridiculous games. She may
regret this visit. What's the game we're going to be playing.
It's some not so dirty words. Okay, all right, Well
we'll find out more about that in a bit, but Penny,
welcome to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Thanks so much for writing the story and for joining us.
I do have to start up by asking you about
this quote that, to be honest, kind of made me
feel nauseous when I read it. So you were talking
about a twenty fourteen paper that found that children are
less likely to develop asthma or precursors dasma. I guess
you said in their first year if they're exposed to
particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, what do we do about this, Penny?
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I know it's really grim, isn't it. I think the
difficult thing is you can measure these things and find
me associations, but working out like the cuisation and what
that actually means is a cockroach particle food for a child,
It's an entirely different experiment and one that you're not
ever going to do so I wouldn't aim to have
(22:09):
a sealthy home, but I think the best way to
see that kind of thing is more an indication that
it's not as simple as let's just be dirty or
let's just be clean. And I think some of the
further research that I did after coming across that paper
kind of suggested that these things, like the fact that
you were exposed to cat hair, also meant you were
(22:29):
probably exposed to other things related to the cat. So
it might not have been the cat hair or even
the cat peces that you may have come into contact
with it's the fact that the cat might have been
bringing soil into your home, for example, and perhaps some
of the bacterian soil are really good for preventing asma
and young infants. But it's just it came out as
(22:50):
this quite disgusting correlation in the study.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, I'm glad to know that it's not necessarily the
cat feces that you said.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
That's like that to you.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So, Kenny, I, I thought you did a really nice
job of describing a clean sweet spot in your article,
and I was so curious if you could just describe
that for our listeners a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, it's's quite helpful for me too. So it's basically
almost like a priority system. So you should really focus
on being clean at the most important sites and places
in your home and at the most important times, and
that stops you from spreading infection and getting sick. But
it also means you're not spending your entire life needlessly
(23:31):
cleaning your home from top to bottom. So the place
has been talking about you know, taking a kitchen surfaces
and cooking, but also in touch points, so light switch
is door or like taps as well, just things that
you touch a lot and you might pass things on
to who you're living with. And then in terms of times,
(23:52):
it's obviously when you go to the bathroom and when
you're cooking and when you're eating, but also if someone's
sick in the house, you might want to sort of
unpup how clean you are and how often you've clean
down these touch points, because if someone in your family
has neurovirus and is throwing up regularly, you're obviously at
a much higher risk of spreading things around the home
(24:12):
and the family. Then say, you know you've got a
clean bill of health and no one's obviously ill.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
The whole study around the microbiome is just so fascinating,
and it feels like we're still so early and understanding
the microbiome. What kinds of things are you guys thinking
about at new scientists right now, or things you think
will be able to better treat as we as we'd
better understand the microbiome.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well, so it's so difficult to note because there's just
endless conditions that seem to be linked in some way
to the microbiome, like everything from Alzheimer's to obesity, and
we're still really only sort of unraveling those links and
we're still quite a long way from working out how
usefully we can use this, but there haven't stopped lots
(24:55):
of people from already developing like sprays and treatments and
all kinds of things you can buy online to kind
of change the bacteria in your skin or in your gut,
and we don't really know whether those work yet and
if so, how there are a few things we know,
so in some places, fecal transplant, so that really is
just a transplant of poo is allowed or has been
(25:19):
approved as a treatment for seed difficiles, which is a
bacterial infection that is really difficult to get rid of
once you've got it. So that's kind of that's quite
a landmark in that respect that it's actually been used.
There's a treatment there, But there are people out there
who are just going ahead and doing transplants of pooh
themselves in an unregulated way. And from some kinds of
(25:42):
studies like this, there are kind of early ancdotes and
warning signs that this is obviously much more complex than
we really know yet, because there's so many species of
bacteria and we don't know what they're doing. So there's
some evidence that maybe if you were to receive a
transplant from someone you is a beef, that might actually
make you more likely to become a beef. And these
(26:04):
kinds of interesting effects that start happening when you play
around with your microbiome. So, yeah, it's really dunny days.
And the other thing we don't really know is beyond
something drastic, like if people transplant, can you really even
change your microbiome beyond the age of about three. Maybe
you obviously go through a lot of changes the first
few years of life, but once your body has been
(26:26):
colonized by whichever bacteria come on in, can you really
kind of shift it much more in a healthier or
less healthy direction. We don't really know that yet.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
You know what one thing I was curious about was
whether your behavior has changed since working on this article, Like,
when was the last time you washed your hands?
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yeah, I'm still a fan of washing my hands. I
did to the toilet before speaking to you, so they're
very keen right now. But yeah, hands watching, I haven't changed.
I was hoping actually for an excuse to wash my
hands left being a clean freak, but actually speaking into
the food hygiene and home hygiene experts who were telling
me about how many people get food poisoning in their
(27:06):
homes every year. That actually gave me no excuse to
cut back at all. But we've got a garden flat
that we're in and out all the time with bikes
and plants and things, and so much of what I'm
speaking to some of the people about soil and dirt
and just being outside. I'm a lot more relaxed now.
If we kind of walk soil in, just sweep it
off and don't need to kind of really thoroughly clean
(27:28):
the floor or anything like that. I think the only
thing there that would be really worrying was if we
had a baby that was cooling around and licking the floor.
If a well to you, that would be slightly worrying.
But that's not what I do.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
All right, Well, thank you for talking about how to
be clean, and we want to put you to the
test if you're willing to stick around and play a
game of what did you say?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
The game was called it's called not So Dirty Words,
and it's a game we expressly wrote for you since
you're a clean expert.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Here's how it works.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
We're going to take one word that sounds dirty and
give you two definitions and all you have to do
is tell us which one is the real one?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, yeah, all right, here we go. Word number one
is formication. That's not with an N but an M
as in Michael. Formication. Does it mean A A sensation
like insects crawling on your skin or b the word
veterinarians use for the tartar build up on a goat's teeth. Formication.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
That's a tough one. I think I'm gonna go with
formication insects because of maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You are absolutely right, right, she's all also an insects expert.
All right, this is a good one. Number two, this
is where did you find these?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Mano? This is ridiculous? Okay? All right? Number two? Did
you make this up? Is this a real thing?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Okay? Turtis Maximus?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is Turtis Maximus a broad shield volcano that forms in
the middle of oceanic plates or the Latin name for
the Tibetan blackbird found in the Himalayas and Pakistan. Turtis maximus.
Is it a volcano or a blackbird?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Oh? I like to think if it was a bear
it would sound more familiar. Although I can't remember what
blackbird is right now, I'm going to go with the volcano.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Oh, it's actually the blackbird.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It's a member of the thrush family. Oh, of course,
if we had just given her that hand said it
was a member of the thrush family, nailed it. So
number three, Our soul spelled a R s O l
e is our soul a Hawaiian term for meat harvested
from the tender coconut or B A ring shaped arsenic
(29:43):
based organic compound. Is it a word for the meat
harvested from the tender coconut or a ring shaped arsenic
based organic compound.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I can't tell if it's a red herring or not,
but surely.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes, you're right, well done, Okay, let's do I'm just
having too much fun.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Let's let's keep going, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The next one fart lick f A R T l
e K. You can use these words in your articles
in the future, by the way, Penny, you have our permission. Yeah,
they're good ones, all right? Is A fart lick a
Swedish method for training distance runners by varying pace and terrain,
or b a small species of antelope closely related to
the dictic. I'm gonna oh, the heart.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Sound like they should be related, right, but it's actually
a Swedish distance training.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
She needs to get three correct to win the big prize.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So let's do one more sack butt s A C
K hyphen butt?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
You do all right? Here we go?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Is it a the fourteenth century ancestor of the modern trombones,
sometimes called a sag butt or b a Viking table
used for formal banquets.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It is definitely, well you did.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
What does she want, mango?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Well, she's ellegible for our top prize, which is our
endless admiration.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Oh my gosh, congratulations Penny. Well, Penny, keep up the
great work. We remain huge fans of new scientists. Thanks
so much for joining us, and we hope to talk
to you again.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Thanks very much. She was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Thanks by Welcome back to part time Genius.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So before the break, Penny Sarchet.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Was chatting about the hygiene sweet spot, that is, keeping
your house clean but not too clean. It's kind of
a Goldilocks approach exactly. Since I wanted to know what
to watch out for, I got curious about the dirtiest places,
and here are a few things I found so at home,
the walls around your toilet.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
You know, you just kind of imagine it's the toilet,
but it's actually around.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Your toilet, the kitchen sponge, the kitchen sink drain, the
cutting board is a really nasty one. That toothbrush cup
where everybody keeps their toothbrushes. So some of these places
that you don't immediately think about, and one of the
huge ones the remote control. Now in hotels, two of
the nastiest places are the remote control, which of course
(32:20):
you'll no longer have to deal with thanks to our
patented part time genius remote control condoms. You should see
these on shelfs soon. And the bedside lamp switch. I
never would have guessed the lamp switched me either. So
what about airplanes? What do you think is consistently the
dirtiest place on a plane?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
That a twisty thing you put to turn to put
on the air or maybe the drinks page of the
airline magazine.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I'd say, yeah, that's a pretty specific page there, mega.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And I'm guessing it's not clean.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
But the number one dirtiest thing in some studies by
surprisingly significant margin, seems to be the tray table. What, yeah,
it's discussing if you think about it, people are using
it constantly, folding it up and it may not get clean.
And let's get back to the idea of good bacteria.
This is something we all hear more and more about
these days because of probiotics, the four hundred varieties of
yogurt in the grocery store. As a side note here, recently,
(33:10):
I saw a list of the ways you can annoy
people in your office and number one on that list
of ways was to stand behind a co worker with
a cup of that fruit on the bottom yogurt and
just stir it out that sound alone. Yeah, do you
make that list?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I did make that list. I'm the author of that list.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So there's definitely a lot to talk about with probiotics.
And that's because the gut flora is really important. And
it's important because it keeps you regular, like you don't
want to be consumpated, right, But the thousand different bacteria
in there also have a direct impact on your brain,
and studies have shown strong links between anxiety, depression, even autism,
and it's all linked to your gut flora.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
But and here's the important part. What you put in
their matters. Like in twenty thirteen, the medical journal gastro
Andrology published a paper where women ate yogurt twice a
day and the probiotics changed the makeup of their gut
flora and actually made them calmer and happier under stress tests.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Now, speaking of things we eat, it reminded me of
what might be too clean. And I've got to tell you,
I was thirty seven years old before I ever washed
a banana.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
A banana, yep, why would you wash one?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So one of my daughter's friends refuse to eat a
banana from our house until I washed it because, as
she said, my mom always washes my banana.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, if you're recommending it, I guess we should. But
let's answer the question of how clean is too clean.
Obviously you should keep washing those hands and bananas, and
pay attention to the dirty st areas of your house,
the things we touch a lot, like the light switches
and remote controls and cutting boards.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
But also, what's the best thing you can do to
expose yourself to a wider variety of good bacteria. It's
to spend more time outside, which, of course we're recommending
from a room with no windows. I love it. Speaking
of things I love. You know what time it is, Well, yep,
it's time for the fact Off, where we share all
the things we learned this week that we didn't get
a chance to mention. But before we do that, we
should probably give out our genius Award. Who do you
(35:04):
think deserves that honor today?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I think we've got to give it to miss Goldie Lipman,
who came up with the idea of Gojo the pre purel.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I mean she passed away in the seventies, but we're
going to add her to our Hall of Genius and
send the company a certificate that they could hang on
their office blooden board. So congratulations Goldie.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I'm for that.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
But back to the fact off, mangush, as we like
to say, on the part of north central Alabama where
I grew up. You first, So here's a fact for you.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
There's a guy named Jasper Lawrence who had severe allergies,
like his eyes would swell up to the point where
he couldn't see. He had intense trouble breathing, and he
decided the only way he could get his boyer to
stop attacking itself was to give it something to attack. So,
and this is the part I love. He went to
Cameroon and he intentionally walked around barefoot in areas where
(35:58):
people went to the bathroom. Oh, I know, and the
reason was to give himself hookworm. And then he started
this internet business selling hookworms to relieve people with crohns
and other autoimmune disorders, which may actually work, but comes
with all sorts of FDA and postal service complications.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I like to imagine the conversation where he's like, honey,
I tried the flonase, it didn't work, so I'm going
to move on to hookworms. So there's a psychologist from Cornell,
David Pizarro, who studies the notion of disgust. And in
one of his experiments, he had students fill out a
survey on their political beliefs, and most of them were
just filling out surveys in a crowded hallway. But then
(36:36):
he relocated a few of the groups next to a
hand sanitizer dispenser, and when he did, those groups reportedly
came back more conservative. And he found this over and
over in studies, whether it was signs about washing hands
or sanitizer or the presence of handwipes. Wherever there was
a subtle reminder of physical purity. It made a respondent
(36:56):
more conservative than they might have otherwise been. That's crazy.
So remember how we inhale fifty to sixty milligrams of
dirt a day.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
So one of the things I love is that the
Japanese government has been organizing these things called forest baths,
that's what they're called. And forest bats are basically guided
tours on destressing. A guide will teach you how to
break open a twin of sassafras and inhale and appreciate
nature and generally be more mindful. And part of it
is just reminding people how easy it is to get
in nature preserves. Yeah, but I kind of love this
(37:26):
idea that if you're going to inhale fifty milligrams of
dirt a day, let's pick where that dirt's coming from.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Okay, I like that idea too. I've got another one here.
IBM processed water. Have you heard of this? So one
of the weird things is that instead of using solutions
to clean their chips, IBM actually uses this ultra pure
water that's what it's called. They process their water so
many times, over fourteen times, that it has no specs
of dirt or particles so that it doesn't scratch the chip.
(37:53):
But the same thing that makes it great for cleaning
also makes it harmful for the body. So like in
its truest form, water will leach nutrients toward it from
other substances. And so even though it's really really ultra pure,
it's actually too clean to drink. Huh, Like drinking will
actually hurt your body.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
So there's a great Sean Bradley story that I promise relates. Now,
this is Sean Bradley, the basketball player.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, and so the escort I asked him what it
feels like to be seven foot six, and you just
generally feel miserable for the guy and his answers, like
he can't buy normal clothes, he can't buy a regular
sleeping bag, he can't buy a regular car. I mean,
you realize this world is not fit for anyone his size.
But the worst thing he said about being that tall
is that when you're seven foot six, you're looking down
(38:38):
on everything and everything is dirty. So you're seeing like
ceiling fans and tops of fridges and lockers and everything's
just gross. And as a short dude, that's not something
i'd really ever think about.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh yeah, I never thought about that at all. That's
it must be really gross. So all right, pandas, let's
talk about pandas. So pandas seem completely useless, right, They
have a bacteria in their stomach that can reduce the
mass and volume of garbage by ninety percent, which is
great because anytime you don't want to take your trash out,
you should be able to rent a pan at a
squad on your rubber. It feels like another great business idea.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I like it.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
So, speaking of what's too clean, the Mona Lisa has
actually been cleaned too often. And you know, when you
picture the Mona Lisa, you might remember she has almost
non existent eyebrows and super light lashes. But that wasn't
always the case, like she used to have thick brows,
and art analysis actually showed that all that hair got
thinned and trimmed over the years because the painting's been
(39:34):
cleaned too much.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Okay, all right, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I'm going to give it to you win the battle
this time, but I'll be back with some wild tangents
next time. That's it for today's part time genius. Thanks
so much for listening. Thanks again for.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Listening to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast,
and because we're a brand new show, if you're feeling
extra generous, we'd love it if you give us a rating.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
On Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Part Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
research team is Gabeluzier, Lucas Adams, Autumn white Field Madrano,
Austin Thompson, and Meg Robbins. Jason Hoak is our chief cheerleader.
Part-Time Genius News
Hosts And Creators
Will Pearson
Mangesh Hattikudur
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