February 10, 2026 • 34 mins
Let’s be real: eating at Olive Garden isn’t the same as dining in Tuscany. But does that mean the food is inherently worse? Today Will and Mango explore the concept of culinary authenticity, including how it’s measured, who it benefits, and what it really means for one dish to be “more authentic” than another. Plus: The political calculus of wolfing down corn dogs, and the shocking origin of Outback Steakhouse (spoiler alert: it does not involve Australia!).
- Did you know that instant mashed potatoes are authentic Canadian cuisine? Check out this episode on Great Inventions from the Great White North to learn more!
Got a question or idea for the show? Call our hotline at (302) 405-5925 or email higeniuses@gmail.com.
Follow us on Instagram @parttimegenius and Bluesky @parttimegenius.bsky.social!
Photo by Maximilian Zahn via Unsplash. Thanks, Maximilian!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
and iHeartRadio. Guess what will?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
What's that? Mango?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So I'm going to kick this off with something pretty scandalous.
So get out your Victorian hand fans and your fainting
couches because this is going to blow you away.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
If anybody's ever been guilty of over selling something mango,
I think that might be you right now. But anyway,
what is the fact?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, let me start off with a question, what is
the most popular Australian restaurant in America?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
That's a good question. The only one I can think
of maybe Outback exactly?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And did you know that Outback Steakhouse restaurant chain is
not even remotely Australian.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Shocking.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So I don't know about you, but this really shook
my world. Uh, lumin onions and mozzarella boomerangs are not
authentic Aussy cuisine.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
An I guess I should cancel my trip because I
was looking forward to some of those mozzarella boomerangs.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But anyway, so if it's not from Australia, where's.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It from Tampa?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay? All right, that's close.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The chain was founded back in nineteen eighty eight, during
the height of the Crocodile Dundee craze, and in fact,
none of the four people who found it out back
had ever been to Australia when they launched the chain.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's actually pretty funny though, right.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I Mean, what's even crazier is that they actually made
it a point not to visit so that they wouldn't
be tempted to incorporate actual Australian cuisine into their vision.
They wanted their Aussi theme to remain just as cartoonish
and surface level as the movie that inspired it.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I mean, it does kind of break my heart that
Australians haven't really experienced the wonder of the bloomin onion mango.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I know, but today's episode is all about food authenticity.
We're going to deal with really tricky questions like what
does it mean to serve authentic cuisine? Who decides what's
authentic or not? And is it possible to fabricate authenticity?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You know, this one turned out to be a pretty
crazy topic, so I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and as always, I'm joined by my good
friend Mangesh hot ticketter and on the other side of
that soundproof glasses helping himself to a veggie corn dog
and a fresh batch of deep fried Oreos. That's our
friend and producer Dylan Fagan.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It kind of feels like either he switched to a
really unhealthy diet for some reason, or like he's running
for some sort of office, Like that's the type of
thing that politicians eat when they're try to get the
vote out.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Don't know if he's campaigning for anything right now, but
Dylan is one hundred percent authentically Dylan twenty four to seven,
so he's got my vote.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
But you make a good point here.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So today we're talking about authenticity and food and that
definitely plays a role in politics. Like you probably saw
some of the mayoral race in New York City. The
new mayors are on mom. Donnie made a real point
of declaring his authenticity by showing up at local bodegas
ordering egg and cheese and celebrating ethnic food from Queens.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of love that he was
out promoting places like kebab King on the campaign trail
rather than just like another pizza place, which you know,
you know, I mean, I love pizza.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I do know that you love pizza.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
But it's fun to see all this time. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
But and it makes sense, right, like performative eating and
also things like downing fried food at state fairs in
front of crowds. It's actually tried and true campaign tactic,
and it's been common practice for at least a century
at this point.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, And I guess it's because these politicians are showing
their real people and kind of to earth.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And you know it's a play to show how authentic
and down to earth they really are.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So just to run through the.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Presidential timeline a little bit, President Franklin Roosevelt ate a
hot dog for a photo op while sitting in his
convertible at a campaign stop back in nineteen thirty two.
Eisenhower drank a bottle of coke at a rally to
kick off his nineteen fifty six reelection campaign, and in
a rare case of bipartisan pandering, both Ronald Reagan and
Bill Clinton chowed down on Big Max during their respective
(04:28):
runs for president. It's funny I can remember both of
those so vividly as a kid, right, I mean more.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Than the actual incident of Phil Clinton being Adam McDonald's.
I remember Phil Hartman playing Bill Clinton, like wandering into
McDonald's to eat after a jog, but he's only been
jogging for like.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Three people, Yeah, and then straight into the McDonald's sty.
You're right, I actually remember that probably just as well. Anyway,
that's just a small sampling of the many winning candidates
who've eaten in public over the years, and all is
a way to appeal to their voters.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I'm always so confused though, Right, why does eating a
deep fried oreo make a candidate seem more authentic?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It feels so obvious. It is such a pr stunt.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, I mean it is.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And these types of eating displays are hyper managed events
that are scouted and planned well in advance by campaign teams,
and most of the people in attendance actually understand that
at least at some level. But luckily for the candidates,
the goal isn't really to convince the public that you're
just a regular Joe eating a corn dog like Dylanova there,
who's definitely not a regular Joe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And i't mean to suggest.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
But the real aim is to show that a candidate
understands what's important to a community.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So that's why.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Campaigns these days tend to avoid chain restaurants and tend
to go to these independent diners and food stands and
stuff like that, Like they want to leverage the sense
of shared history and community that places like that evoke
in people.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So like the eating is almost this symbolic gesture.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
That's exactly right, So it communicates a kind of cultural
understanding or fluency, which you can really make a candidate
seem more authentic to the voters, even though the situation
surrounding it is completely and authentic. But the word authentic
is going to come up a lot today, so we
should probably just.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Nail down a meaning for it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Unfortunately, in the context of food, the word authentic can
actually mean different things to different people. The most common
meaning is that authentic food is somehow representative of a
specific category, like a region or an ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So like authentic New York pizza, or like authentic Mexican
food is like a way that we use this.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And this type of usage can get a little dicey
since it's used primarily in regard to quote unquote ethnic cuisine,
and it raises the question of who gets to decide
what is or isn't authentic, like the people preparing the
food or the people eating it. It's like mango when
we would go to Indian restaurants in college, and I
was always like, but first, mango, is this authentic?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't get you to tell me.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah. Now, this whole thing makes me think of the
study I read where a sociologist his name is Stephen Christ,
actually went to fifty four Mexican restaurants across the country
and he interviewed the employees. What he learned was that
many of the restaurants that were touted for their authenticity,
we're actually serving watered down recipes because that's what the
locals wanted. Now, in most cases, I'd say that's just
(07:08):
good business, right, like you want to meet people where
they are. But the subtext of this study is that
Mexican chefs were being compelled to change their family recipes
and they'd have to substitute these traditional ingredients all to
appeal to the local tastes. So the way Stephen Christ
puts it is that quote a restaurant is only as
authentic as profits will allow, which is kind of an
(07:30):
interesting take, right, And it plays into how loaded the
word authenticity is. Like these restaurants wind up chasing someone
else's idea of authenticity just to stay in business.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, I can imagine that's always a challenge. And speaking
of profits, that brings us to the second meaning of
authenticity in the food industry. So this is the kind
of authenticity that's derived from values or beliefs, So things
like sustainability or locally sourced ingredients, or like cage and
cruelty free meat stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So kind of authentically whole foods is what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I mean, values based authenticity is the kind that people
are willing to pay a higher price for.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So one kind of authenticity brings in more money than
the other.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean, that's what's interesting here, right. So when it
comes to categorical authenticity, studies show that the value comes
in the form of better reviews, which typically gives the
business to boost. But the flip side is that most
customers won't be willing to pay more for that brand
of authenticity. So, for example, a dive joint known for
its authentic Philly cheese steaks is going to have great
word of mouth, but all the customers who flock there
(08:30):
will expect to pay these dive joint prices no matter
how authentic it is. But that's actually not the case
for the other kind of authenticity. In fact, the situation
is just the opposite. Values based authenticity fosters this willingness
to pay more for a meal, but most customers won't
rate a restaurant higher just for that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I mean, the Philly cheese steak example is a good
one because often they're using cheese whiz for it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I do like some cheese whiz though, Maga, I'm not
gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I do wonder if the high prices make people stingier
with their ratings, though.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I mean, that could certainly be a factor.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But the curious thing is why authentic food of all
types doesn't drive prices up. Like the term is being
used positively in both cases, So why aren't people willing
to pay more for it across the board?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I imagine the values based kind is more of
a personal thing for people like you know that the
food's almost an expression of the restaurant's values, and because
the customers are choosing to eat there, it's an expression
of their values right right, and a lot of people
are willing to pay a higher price for that sort
of connection versus you know, you might want authentic Chinese food,
(09:35):
but really you're just looking for Chinese food that's tasty,
and it's less important to you to know just how
authentically Chinese it is. But I read an interview with
a professor at NYU. His name is Crishend Durey, and
he's author a great book called The Ethnic Restaurant Tour.
He says that there's a feeling that quote, if the
food is expensive, then it can't possibly be authentic. And
(09:56):
the reality that comes from that thinking is that a
lot of us are unwilling to pay more for ethnic quizisine.
And Ray describes this as almost a form of ethnic
hierarchy that we communicate subconsciously, and this actually plays out
in things like Yelp.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Previews, Oh so, how do you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well? Based on a twenty nineteen study, Yelp reviewers talk
about authenticity the most when describing food from recent and
low income immigrant groups, and the details mentioned in those
reviews tend to be very different from the ones in
reviews of more affluent ethnic groups. Right, So, for example,
the reviews for non European restaurants connected the term authentic
(10:33):
with cheaper and less positive attributes, so things like dirt
floors plastic stools. Meanwhile, the reviews for European and Japanese
cuisines is associated the word authentic with positive descriptions of
the ambiance, right like handsome French waiters and classic Japanese touches, all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, which is definitely a double standard.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, And according to Sarah Kay, who is the nutrition
educator behind that Yelp study, the trend shows that quote
when we use this word authentic, we're using it to
refer to migrant groups that were less familiar with and
our expectations are potentially less founded in our actual experiences
and more founded in stereotypes or false perceptions. But it's
(11:12):
also interesting how these things change over time, right like
Italian food in America used to be considered ethnic cuisine,
and things like fusion foods are a great reminder of
how cyclical food trends can be. If you think about,
like ten or fifteen years ago, people were all about
experimental cuisine, and weirdly, I read this great piece at
Eater about how this one writer actually saw Taco bell
(11:33):
as fusion. Like he saw it as this kind of
ethnic Mexican American hybrid that introduced people to Mexican food,
and it was almost like the starter cuisine for the
next generations looking to eat more authentic and eventually higher
priced Mexican foods.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I mean, as you know, I love some Taco Bell
but I've never fooled myself into thinking that it was
supposed to be like any sort of fusion of anything
other than just like delicious, cheesy mush.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
But anyway, that is interesting to hear that take.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I mean, honestly, that's what I thought too. And I
read this piece and it's fascinating because the guy's mom
was Mexican, his dad was American, and for her, she
actually liked Taco Bell because it was this idea in
Texas that her cuisine could be palatable to like a
lot of white Americans and it was available for everyone.
And you know, he also makes his argument that that's
(12:22):
why the best taco in America comes from Taco Bell.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well that's an argument I won't disagree with, but I'm
not going to get out there and promote that.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
But anyway, well, now we've talked a little bit about
food authenticity and the complications with it. Why don't we
get into some really fun real world examples right after
this quick break. You're listening to part Time Genius and
(12:59):
we're talking about the restaurant industries enduring quest for authenticity.
All right, mengo, So we've covered authentic food and authentic values.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So what's next on the list?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So this one is a little harder to define, and
I guess we could call it authentic place making.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Place making?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So like you mean like a theme restaurant or like
little fake countries at Epcot or what do you mean
by that?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, exactly, except not inside a theme park and not
limited to Central Florida. So the best example I can
think of are Irish pubs, and it is no surprise
to find one in a place like Boston. But did
you know that there's also an Irish pub in Phoenix, Arizona,
and Calcutta and Iraq?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So I am curious, like how this happens?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Is there like one Irish out there just setting up
pubs all over the place, or how does this work?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah? Kind of. It turns out there really is a
company that specializes in building Irish pubs around the world.
It's appropriately enough called the Irish Pub Company, so you
probably know what it stands for. It was started by
a Dublin architect. His name is Mel McNally and this
was back in nineteen ninety. Now. McNally had witnessed this
huge boom of tourism at the time and he suspected
(14:11):
that it would spark a demand for Irish style bars
in the tourists home countries. And it turns out he
was right because over the years, the company has helped
more than two thousand Irish pubs open throughout Europe. And
they didn't actually stop there. The company has since expanded
its service in to fifty three additional countries, everywhere from
Canada to Mongolia to Marin County. But McNally actually isn't
(14:34):
alone in this because Guinness has actually been the Pub
Company's partner since the start.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
So what do they do exactly, Because it doesn't sound
like from what you're saying that they're actually operating these
bars right.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
No, the bars are all independently owned and operated, and
Guinness and the Irish Pub Companies serve mostly as designers
and also consultants. So basically a bar owner will contact
them and that's when they're like looking to open an
Irish style pub and McNally and his team worked with
them to design the interior based on each location, and
then once the design is settled, the company builds the
(15:05):
bar tops and all the furniture, and this happens in
Ireland and then shifts it over to the site of
the latest pub.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
So I imagine they are all kind of variations on
the same theme, right I'm picturing lots of dark wood paneling.
You got to have a frame photo of James Joyce
on the wall stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, of course, and Guinness is always always on tap.
But to be fair, the clients do have more design
choices than I certainly expected, right, Like, So McNally and
his team actually offer four different bar styles to build
off of. They've got the country cottage, their brewery pub,
the Victorian pub and the Gaelic pub, and the design
(15:41):
elements for each of these vary pretty widely, but in
each case all of the corresponding to core is supplied
by the company, So it's everything from the furniture to
the lighting to essentially all the chochkeys on the wall.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And so what's the thinking there, like is this approach
supposed to make these pubs more authentic or what.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah. McNally says that authentic design, and authentic Irish food
and authentic Irish beverages are all key ingredients for a
successful Irish pub. He never really defines those terms, so
you're not getting like bloomin Irish onions. But the process
this company follows gives us an idea of what he means.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
You meant the fact that all these pubs are being
designed and like pre built in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, I mean that's a big part of it. Also,
all the materials in decor is sourced from Ireland and
based on the structural elements of like popular bars in Dublin.
So there's actually kind of a lot to back up
the claim that these are quote unquote authentic Irish pubs.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean, I guess you're right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And don't get me wrong, it's fascinating that there's a
company responsible for giving all these Irish pubs the same feel.
It just it just seems like such a corporate process
that I can't help but think of it as somehow inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Well I wasn't going to mention this, but it isn't
just one company doing this. Others have actually gotten into
the pub making act over the years, including a company
called Old Irish Pubs Limited and Love Irish Pubs. So
it is a competitive market.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love it. They are just all on the nose
with they're naming.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, and that's exactly what people want, you know. Some
people argue that if you go to the Italy Pavilion
at Epcot, you know, you wouldn't say you've had an
authentic Italian experience. But there is something to be said
for like curating an environment that feels immersive or transportive
and you can evoke a feeling similar to that of
the real place, and sometimes that's a positive experience that
(17:25):
you know, can prompt people to seek out the authentic
version for themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Like I guess if somebody falls in love with the
Irish pub and Phoenix, they may decide to take a
trip over to Ireland.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah. And it's just like we were saying, Taco bell
can be a gateway food to more traditional Mexican food.
But exactly if the manufacturer, big business version can bring
so much happiness, I'm sure people feel like they're just
getting a taste of it. They'd love to be a
place where this is happening more regularly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I can't stop thinking about Taco Bell now Mango. This
is a real problem. I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Let's go back to the spirit of placemaking, because there's
a quote I wanted to share from the interview McNally
did for Men's Journal. He's talking about how the Irish
pub concept is more than just a money making scheme
aimed at tourists, and as he puts it, quote, people
engage with the sense of community, friendship, and conviviality that
they find in an authentic Irish pub. In that sense,
(18:17):
pubs are an important connection from Ireland and its people
to the rest of the world, and for the irishmen
and women living abroad, the pubs are gathering venues which
allow them to feel home. It's a portal to Ireland.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, I can see what he means.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
It's interesting, like the more we talk about all this,
the more I can see how that connection between food
and authenticity might mean different things to different people, like
a sense of home or comfort, a feeling of adventure,
a taste of the exotic, or like a display of
common values. But there's always more to it than just
simply having a meal of course.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, it's starting to make more sense why voters like
seeing politicians eat comfort food, right, Like, it's a play
to emotions more than reason. But if anything, that only
makes it more effective.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
All right, well now we've got a bit more to
say on this subject, but first let's take one more
quick break.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Welcome back to part time Genius.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
All right, Mango, you were telling us about how Irish
pubs have flourished over the past three decades, and it
started to sound kind of familiar. And then it hit me, Mango,
the restaurant we haven't brought up yet, Cracker Barrel.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Of all the restaurants in all the world, I didn't
think you were going to bring up Cracker Barrel.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, you know, the chain restaurant that uses the old
Southern country store motif. And they, of course created quite
a stir last year when they tried to change their
longtime logo.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
You remember all this nonsense.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right, Yeah, I think they wanted to ditch the cracker barrel. Right.
And also that old guy sitting next to that.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Cracker barrel, Yeah, he's been sitting there so long. Well, anyway,
his name if you remember is Uncle Herschel, the salesman.
The the salesman uncle of Cracker Barrel founder Dan Evans.
But yeah, the company wanted to attract new customers and
they thought that a simpler streamline logo would help them
do it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
But that wasn't all.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Like the rebrand was also going to include a major
overhaul of the restaurant's interiors.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So first of all, I had no idea his name
was Uncle Herschel. And I feel like that's the type
of thing I should know, right knowing all the trivia
we know, like, it feels like that's something I want
to come up. But I also remember you actually took
me to my first Cracker Barrel. I'd never do to
say that, and we went to college, and I just
remember it was such a novel thing because there were
like rocking chairs on the porch and there was like
(20:37):
a little country store. But beyond that, I really don't
remember much about the interior.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
A lot of rock and chairs, a lot of those
peg games. And there are actually more than six hundred
Cracker Barrel locations across the country, and every one of
them is stuffed with roughly a thousand pieces of old
timey Americana, but in this effort to draw younger crowd,
all of those nostalgic props were set to be removed.
It turns out so nobody really wanted this slick, modern
(21:02):
cracker barrel, because when the plans were made public, the
Internet went ballistic. I don't know if you know this, Mango,
but sometimes the Internet is not very friendly to things,
and the fact that this restaurant kind of had this
disregard for its own look and history like it pretty
much upset everyone, from the lifelong diners to the people
who were only familiar with the brand from its highway signs.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean, I don't understand why people who were just
familiar with the brand from the highway signs were that
upset about it.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
But people love to get worked up.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I'm sure it was a tough week for the marketing team, right.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Oh yeah, I'm guessing. So it seemed like a brutal
week for the marketing team. But again it you know,
it all speaks to the importance of perceived authenticity. People
thought the restaurant wasn't going to be true to its roots,
and the backlash led to a one hundred million dollar
drop in the company's market value. So as a result,
the changes were completely dropped. Uncle Herschel was called out
of retirement and all that stuff on the restaurant's walls
(21:57):
were left right where it was.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I mean, I didn't know they had one hundred million
dollars to drop.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
But I hope we don't ever say anything dumb and
have one hundred million dollar drop in the value of
part time genius.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You know, be careful.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
But it's also so funny. It's like, because they decided
to upgrade the design, that's so insane.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's really weird, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I am still curious about the decor, though, Like, can
you remind me what is on those walls that people
are so attached to?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I sure can. I've actually got a list right here.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So at any given Cracker barrel, you're likely to find
all manner of antiques mounted on the walls and even
hanging from the ceiling, including all right, here we go,
butter churns, washtubs, tobacco cans, old bottles, farm implements, nickel
soda machines, black and white portraits, shoe trees, vintage metal signs,
kitchen tools, mechanics tools, and of course bicycles.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I have forgotten all of that. I feel like we
need to make another visit.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Time to go back for their dish. They have a
dish mango if you remember, called chicken fried chicken, which
really just confuses people. So I'm gonna let people do
their own research as to what that means. But it
is nostalgia central. And one cool thing I read though,
is that there are five special items that are placed
in every store that they open. Those signature items are
a traffic light, a cookstove, a deer head, a telephone,
(23:16):
and of course a shotgun.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know, the essentials.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I love that a traffic light, like, what is the light?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Gotta have a traffic light.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Also, it is so weird that you didn't say a
cracker barrel.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I guess that would just be too obvious.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
My guess is all of them probably have a cracker
barrel in there at some point. But anyway, so what
is interesting is that all the other items vary from
store to store, and many are specially chosen for that location. So,
for example, the cracker barrel in coastal towns might have
a bunch of fishing gear on the walls to make
it feel more authentically local.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So, speaking of authentic, are all these items real antiques
or are they mostly like props made to look old.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
That's actually a really good question, and I would not
have guessed the answer to this, but surprisingly they are
all antique. I actually read this interview this week with
one of the original decor managers for Cracker Barrel. It's
a guy named Larry Singleton, and to the best of
his knowledge, every item hung on the walls is one
hundred percent authentic, meaning not a reproduction of an item,
but the actual item itself, and none of the items
(24:21):
were manufactured within the last few decades.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Where do they get this stuff?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Apparently the company has this whole warehouse full of stuff
at their headquarters in Lebanon, Tennessee, and it's a twenty
six thousand square foot facility that houses somewhere north of
one hundred thousand items at any given time, each of
which is inventoried with its own unique barcode. So there's
a mockup of a history interior in the warehouse. And
anytime a new restaurant is scheduled to open, the design
(24:47):
team pulls out a load of rustic decors and sort
of arranges it on their set. They then take pictures
so the arrangement can be reproduced and all the items
are packed up and shipped to that new location.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's kind of a fascinating process. Yeah, so does the
company just have an army of antique spires or something,
because it feels like it must take an awful lot
of antiques to constantly fill that massive warehouse.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
No, that's definitely true, and apparently it's getting tougher as
the years go by. So shows like American Pickers and
others centered on antiquing have really stepped up the competition
and of course made it harder to find some of
the old items that have become Cracker Barrel staples. But
the good news is there's no need to panic just yet.
I could sense you were on the verge of panicking there.
But the company has built this nationwide network of antique
(25:34):
dealers during its sixty years in business, and they're determined
to keep Cracker Barrel flush with butter churns for many
years to come.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
All right, so we can breathe easy. It does make
me wonder, though, like if other theme restaurants have similar
arrangements to this. This makes me think about decor in general.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Now, yeah, yeah, they definitely do.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
So if you think about something like Planet Hollywood, for instance,
he does something similar with their stores. The company has
this stockpile of authentic props and it divvies them out
to each location, and that way customers can experience the
thrill of sitting next to the boxing gloves stallone Warren Rocky,
or Brendan Fraser's loincloth from Georgia the Jungle, or you
think about all of these sort of classic and strange
items from different movies.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
That's really interesting. I also wonder like, has anyone ever
specifically asked to be seated next to Brendan Fraser's loin clawn?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I think after this episode that's gonna happen. Only Brendan
Fraser has asked to do that is actually my guess.
But back on the topic, So TGI Friday's is actually
another example. So they've got a twenty five thousand square
foot warehouse somewhere in Nashville, and they refuse to disclose
the exact location and is it apparently piled high with memorabilia.
So the company has looser guidelines for its decore than
(26:42):
Cracker Barrel, but it still claims that about seventy five
percent of the items on display are actual antiques. TGI
Friday's even has its own signature items that appear in
every single store. One of them that I thought was
interesting an air aarplane collar over the bar and a
racing skull, which is meant to remind employees that they
should work as a team, with all oars pulling together
in the same direction.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's also so funny to me that, like, they've got
a massive warehouse and they won't tell you where it
is for fear of like what theft.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
To any good things?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
There?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Man to any good things?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So what about things like the taxidermy alligator heads like
that where sunglasses? Do you have any idea what that represents?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I don't actually know either way.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
All this talk of TGIF and cracker barrel it makes
me really think we ought to plan our next trip
to actually to both of these, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
But before we do, what do you say we make
time for a fact off, here's something about that authentic
Indian food that I never told you because you and
I both love chicken tka masala. So while the dish
feels rich and complex and you know deeply Indian. It's
actually a modern remix born outside India, and most often
(27:54):
it is credited to Britain.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Some people call it Scottish.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The dish likely emerged when South Asian cooks in the
UK adapted traditional chicken tika, which is like dry, spiced
grilled meat, and added a creamy tomato sauce to suit
the British diners who wanted something richer and less dry. So,
in other words, it's essentially a diaspora cuisine. It is
Indian technique and Western preferences, so kind of like that
(28:19):
fusion we were talking about. And in India, you know,
it does exist, but in the UK it's way more
popular and it's often jokingly called Britain's national dish. Like
many authentic foods, chicken tika masala isn't about historical purity.
It's about adaptation, migration and cooks solving a very practical
problem how to make unfamiliar food comforting to a new audience.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
All Right, So a lot of people have probably heard
the fact that champagne can only be called champagne if
it was made in the Champagne region of France. Otherwise
it's just sparkling white wine. But what I didn't know
before is that that geographic distinction was actually written into
the Treaty of Versailles is a way to secure the
valuable brand name for French winemakers in the wake of
World War One. But since the United States never signed
(29:05):
that treaty, American winemakers had a free pass to continue
using the term for decades, whether the French liked it or.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Not, and I'm guessing they did not like it they did.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It turns up that.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Means there's no such thing as California champagne then.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Right, I mean technically no, And in two thousand and six,
the USNEU actually made a deal to start phasing out
the term's use on American products, so you won't find
a lot of California champagne on the shelves these days.
And that said, there are actually a few American producers
who were grandfathered in and are still permitted to use
the word on their labels. This includes Corbell, which has
been making California champagne since back in eighteen eighty, two
(29:44):
decades before the Treaty of Versailles was actually drafted, and
Miller High Life, which has billed itself as the quote
as we know champagne fags, right, that's right, you know
your fancy stuff, and that since nineteen o six, again
predating the treaty.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
That is so amazing that the Champagne of beers was
Grandfather Day.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It definitely is.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And while all of this might sound ridiculous to us,
the French government actually takes it very very serious. Last year,
a French winemaker was sentenced to a year and a
half in prison for making and selling thousands of bottles
of fake champagne.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So I'm not sure if you knew this, but did
you know that there is a real anti end behind
the mall food?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Oh? No kidding it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
A Delicious Pretzel company started as a humble roadside stand
and it was run by Ann Baylor, Pennsylvania Mennonite women
who originally sold soft pretzels to support a free counseling
center that her family had opened. In Mennonite culture, food
is practical, it's communal, it is intentionally simple, so there
is no flash. There's no indulgence for indulgence's sake. The
(30:48):
pretzels were just meant to be filling and affordable. Instead,
they've turned kind of this crave engineered snack, right like.
Once the recipe hit malls in the late nineteen eighties,
everything shifted. They added a butter sugar crept in. Cinnamon
sugar became a thing, and the smell itself became part
of the product. What began is this faith rooted, service
oriented side project actually evolved into a global brand built
(31:12):
on roma marketing, impulse buying, and indulgence. It was still
selling this handrol tradition, just now it was under fluorescent
lights next to you a sneaker store.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
All right.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Well, in a similar vein, there are tons of so
called national foods that actually aren't from where their names
suggest they might be. So for example, French fries are
from Belgium, Russian dressing was invented in New Hampshire, sauerkraut
hails from China, not Germany. Swedish meatballs were originally Turkish,
and danishes were created by Austrian bakers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
So basically our pantries are kind of a den of lives.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Also, German chocolate cake isn't actually German. It was invented
by an English American named Samuel German.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That's pretty amazing. I guess that's a good reminder of
just how meaningless idea of authentic we can sometimes be.
So for that, I think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
All right.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I didn't think I would take it for that, but
Samuel Jerman, thank you very much. All right, well, I'd
like to dedicate this trophy to the good people of Australia,
where sophisticated palettes have been maligned for far too long.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That's going to do it for today's show.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
If you enjoyed what you heard, be sure to subscribe,
leave us a nice rating, and share the show with
a friend. If you don't mind, you can also drop
us a line at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. Again,
that's Hi, Geniuses at gmail dot com. Or call the
hotline day or night Mango. This hotline is open twenty
four to seven, three sixty five, just like waffle House,
which we didn't talk about today NonStop. That number is
(32:40):
three h two four oh five five nine two five.
We would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah. We actually recently got a message from a listener
named Oliver who was asking us to do an episode
all about the cool inventions Canada has come up with
over the years. And Oliver, great minds. Do you think alike,
because we already have an episode on that very subject.
It's called Thanks Canada, Nine Great Inventions from the Great
White North. But I love inventions. I love invention origins.
(33:07):
I'm actually gonna go research and try ay more for
you and put them up on Instagram. And that's just
for you, Oliver. That is it for today's episode from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary,
and myself. Thank you so much for listening. Part Time
(33:34):
Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is
hosted by my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known
for almost three decades now. That is insane to me.
I'm the uta co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer
is Mary Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm
gonna fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier,
(33:56):
who I've also.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Known for like a decade at this point, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is always dressed up,
always cheering us on, and always ready to hit record
and then mix the show after he does a great job.
I also want to shout out the executive producers from
iHeart my good pals Katrina and Norvel and Ali Perry.
We have social media support from Calypso Rallis if you
like our videos, that is all Calypso's handiwork. For more
(34:24):
podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That's it from us here at Part Time Genius. Thank
you so much for listening.
You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
and iHeartRadio. Guess what will?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
What's that? Mango?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So I'm going to kick this off with something pretty scandalous.
So get out your Victorian hand fans and your fainting
couches because this is going to blow you away.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
If anybody's ever been guilty of over selling something mango,
I think that might be you right now. But anyway,
what is the fact?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, let me start off with a question, what is
the most popular Australian restaurant in America?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
That's a good question. The only one I can think
of maybe Outback exactly?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And did you know that Outback Steakhouse restaurant chain is
not even remotely Australian.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Shocking.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So I don't know about you, but this really shook
my world. Uh, lumin onions and mozzarella boomerangs are not
authentic Aussy cuisine.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
An I guess I should cancel my trip because I
was looking forward to some of those mozzarella boomerangs.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But anyway, so if it's not from Australia, where's.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It from Tampa?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay? All right, that's close.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
The chain was founded back in nineteen eighty eight, during
the height of the Crocodile Dundee craze, and in fact,
none of the four people who found it out back
had ever been to Australia when they launched the chain.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's actually pretty funny though, right.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I Mean, what's even crazier is that they actually made
it a point not to visit so that they wouldn't
be tempted to incorporate actual Australian cuisine into their vision.
They wanted their Aussi theme to remain just as cartoonish
and surface level as the movie that inspired it.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I mean, it does kind of break my heart that
Australians haven't really experienced the wonder of the bloomin onion mango.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I know, but today's episode is all about food authenticity.
We're going to deal with really tricky questions like what
does it mean to serve authentic cuisine? Who decides what's
authentic or not? And is it possible to fabricate authenticity?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You know, this one turned out to be a pretty
crazy topic, so I'm excited to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Will Pearson and as always, I'm joined by my good
friend Mangesh hot ticketter and on the other side of
that soundproof glasses helping himself to a veggie corn dog
and a fresh batch of deep fried Oreos. That's our
friend and producer Dylan Fagan.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It kind of feels like either he switched to a
really unhealthy diet for some reason, or like he's running
for some sort of office, Like that's the type of
thing that politicians eat when they're try to get the
vote out.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Don't know if he's campaigning for anything right now, but
Dylan is one hundred percent authentically Dylan twenty four to seven,
so he's got my vote.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
But you make a good point here.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So today we're talking about authenticity and food and that
definitely plays a role in politics. Like you probably saw
some of the mayoral race in New York City. The
new mayors are on mom. Donnie made a real point
of declaring his authenticity by showing up at local bodegas
ordering egg and cheese and celebrating ethnic food from Queens.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of love that he was
out promoting places like kebab King on the campaign trail
rather than just like another pizza place, which you know,
you know, I mean, I love pizza.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I do know that you love pizza.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
But it's fun to see all this time. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
But and it makes sense, right, like performative eating and
also things like downing fried food at state fairs in
front of crowds. It's actually tried and true campaign tactic,
and it's been common practice for at least a century
at this point.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, And I guess it's because these politicians are showing
their real people and kind of to earth.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And you know it's a play to show how authentic
and down to earth they really are.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So just to run through the.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Presidential timeline a little bit, President Franklin Roosevelt ate a
hot dog for a photo op while sitting in his
convertible at a campaign stop back in nineteen thirty two.
Eisenhower drank a bottle of coke at a rally to
kick off his nineteen fifty six reelection campaign, and in
a rare case of bipartisan pandering, both Ronald Reagan and
Bill Clinton chowed down on Big Max during their respective
(04:28):
runs for president. It's funny I can remember both of
those so vividly as a kid, right, I mean more.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Than the actual incident of Phil Clinton being Adam McDonald's.
I remember Phil Hartman playing Bill Clinton, like wandering into
McDonald's to eat after a jog, but he's only been
jogging for like.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Three people, Yeah, and then straight into the McDonald's sty.
You're right, I actually remember that probably just as well. Anyway,
that's just a small sampling of the many winning candidates
who've eaten in public over the years, and all is
a way to appeal to their voters.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I'm always so confused though, Right, why does eating a
deep fried oreo make a candidate seem more authentic?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It feels so obvious. It is such a pr stunt.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, I mean it is.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And these types of eating displays are hyper managed events
that are scouted and planned well in advance by campaign teams,
and most of the people in attendance actually understand that
at least at some level. But luckily for the candidates,
the goal isn't really to convince the public that you're
just a regular Joe eating a corn dog like Dylanova there,
who's definitely not a regular Joe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And i't mean to suggest.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
But the real aim is to show that a candidate
understands what's important to a community.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So that's why.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Campaigns these days tend to avoid chain restaurants and tend
to go to these independent diners and food stands and
stuff like that, Like they want to leverage the sense
of shared history and community that places like that evoke
in people.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So like the eating is almost this symbolic gesture.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
That's exactly right, So it communicates a kind of cultural
understanding or fluency, which you can really make a candidate
seem more authentic to the voters, even though the situation
surrounding it is completely and authentic. But the word authentic
is going to come up a lot today, so we
should probably just.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Nail down a meaning for it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Unfortunately, in the context of food, the word authentic can
actually mean different things to different people. The most common
meaning is that authentic food is somehow representative of a
specific category, like a region or an ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So like authentic New York pizza, or like authentic Mexican
food is like a way that we use this.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And this type of usage can get a little dicey
since it's used primarily in regard to quote unquote ethnic cuisine,
and it raises the question of who gets to decide
what is or isn't authentic, like the people preparing the
food or the people eating it. It's like mango when
we would go to Indian restaurants in college, and I
was always like, but first, mango, is this authentic?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't get you to tell me.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah. Now, this whole thing makes me think of the
study I read where a sociologist his name is Stephen Christ,
actually went to fifty four Mexican restaurants across the country
and he interviewed the employees. What he learned was that
many of the restaurants that were touted for their authenticity,
we're actually serving watered down recipes because that's what the
locals wanted. Now, in most cases, I'd say that's just
(07:08):
good business, right, like you want to meet people where
they are. But the subtext of this study is that
Mexican chefs were being compelled to change their family recipes
and they'd have to substitute these traditional ingredients all to
appeal to the local tastes. So the way Stephen Christ
puts it is that quote a restaurant is only as
authentic as profits will allow, which is kind of an
(07:30):
interesting take, right, And it plays into how loaded the
word authenticity is. Like these restaurants wind up chasing someone
else's idea of authenticity just to stay in business.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, I can imagine that's always a challenge. And speaking
of profits, that brings us to the second meaning of
authenticity in the food industry. So this is the kind
of authenticity that's derived from values or beliefs, So things
like sustainability or locally sourced ingredients, or like cage and
cruelty free meat stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So kind of authentically whole foods is what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I mean, values based authenticity is the kind that people
are willing to pay a higher price for.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So one kind of authenticity brings in more money than
the other.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean, that's what's interesting here, right. So when it
comes to categorical authenticity, studies show that the value comes
in the form of better reviews, which typically gives the
business to boost. But the flip side is that most
customers won't be willing to pay more for that brand
of authenticity. So, for example, a dive joint known for
its authentic Philly cheese steaks is going to have great
word of mouth, but all the customers who flock there
(08:30):
will expect to pay these dive joint prices no matter
how authentic it is. But that's actually not the case
for the other kind of authenticity. In fact, the situation
is just the opposite. Values based authenticity fosters this willingness
to pay more for a meal, but most customers won't
rate a restaurant higher just for that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I mean, the Philly cheese steak example is a good
one because often they're using cheese whiz for it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I do like some cheese whiz though, Maga, I'm not
gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I do wonder if the high prices make people stingier
with their ratings, though.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I mean, that could certainly be a factor.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But the curious thing is why authentic food of all
types doesn't drive prices up. Like the term is being
used positively in both cases, So why aren't people willing
to pay more for it across the board?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I imagine the values based kind is more of
a personal thing for people like you know that the
food's almost an expression of the restaurant's values, and because
the customers are choosing to eat there, it's an expression
of their values right right, and a lot of people
are willing to pay a higher price for that sort
of connection versus you know, you might want authentic Chinese food,
(09:35):
but really you're just looking for Chinese food that's tasty,
and it's less important to you to know just how
authentically Chinese it is. But I read an interview with
a professor at NYU. His name is Crishend Durey, and
he's author a great book called The Ethnic Restaurant Tour.
He says that there's a feeling that quote, if the
food is expensive, then it can't possibly be authentic. And
(09:56):
the reality that comes from that thinking is that a
lot of us are unwilling to pay more for ethnic quizisine.
And Ray describes this as almost a form of ethnic
hierarchy that we communicate subconsciously, and this actually plays out
in things like Yelp.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Previews, Oh so, how do you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well? Based on a twenty nineteen study, Yelp reviewers talk
about authenticity the most when describing food from recent and
low income immigrant groups, and the details mentioned in those
reviews tend to be very different from the ones in
reviews of more affluent ethnic groups. Right, So, for example,
the reviews for non European restaurants connected the term authentic
(10:33):
with cheaper and less positive attributes, so things like dirt
floors plastic stools. Meanwhile, the reviews for European and Japanese
cuisines is associated the word authentic with positive descriptions of
the ambiance, right like handsome French waiters and classic Japanese touches, all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, which is definitely a double standard.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, And according to Sarah Kay, who is the nutrition
educator behind that Yelp study, the trend shows that quote
when we use this word authentic, we're using it to
refer to migrant groups that were less familiar with and
our expectations are potentially less founded in our actual experiences
and more founded in stereotypes or false perceptions. But it's
(11:12):
also interesting how these things change over time, right like
Italian food in America used to be considered ethnic cuisine,
and things like fusion foods are a great reminder of
how cyclical food trends can be. If you think about,
like ten or fifteen years ago, people were all about
experimental cuisine, and weirdly, I read this great piece at
Eater about how this one writer actually saw Taco bell
(11:33):
as fusion. Like he saw it as this kind of
ethnic Mexican American hybrid that introduced people to Mexican food,
and it was almost like the starter cuisine for the
next generations looking to eat more authentic and eventually higher
priced Mexican foods.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I mean, as you know, I love some Taco Bell
but I've never fooled myself into thinking that it was
supposed to be like any sort of fusion of anything
other than just like delicious, cheesy mush.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
But anyway, that is interesting to hear that take.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I mean, honestly, that's what I thought too. And I
read this piece and it's fascinating because the guy's mom
was Mexican, his dad was American, and for her, she
actually liked Taco Bell because it was this idea in
Texas that her cuisine could be palatable to like a
lot of white Americans and it was available for everyone.
And you know, he also makes his argument that that's
(12:22):
why the best taco in America comes from Taco Bell.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well that's an argument I won't disagree with, but I'm
not going to get out there and promote that.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
But anyway, well, now we've talked a little bit about
food authenticity and the complications with it. Why don't we
get into some really fun real world examples right after
this quick break. You're listening to part Time Genius and
(12:59):
we're talking about the restaurant industries enduring quest for authenticity.
All right, mengo, So we've covered authentic food and authentic values.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So what's next on the list?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So this one is a little harder to define, and
I guess we could call it authentic place making.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Place making?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
So like you mean like a theme restaurant or like
little fake countries at Epcot or what do you mean
by that?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, exactly, except not inside a theme park and not
limited to Central Florida. So the best example I can
think of are Irish pubs, and it is no surprise
to find one in a place like Boston. But did
you know that there's also an Irish pub in Phoenix, Arizona,
and Calcutta and Iraq?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So I am curious, like how this happens?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Is there like one Irish out there just setting up
pubs all over the place, or how does this work?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah? Kind of. It turns out there really is a
company that specializes in building Irish pubs around the world.
It's appropriately enough called the Irish Pub Company, so you
probably know what it stands for. It was started by
a Dublin architect. His name is Mel McNally and this
was back in nineteen ninety. Now. McNally had witnessed this
huge boom of tourism at the time and he suspected
(14:11):
that it would spark a demand for Irish style bars
in the tourists home countries. And it turns out he
was right because over the years, the company has helped
more than two thousand Irish pubs open throughout Europe. And
they didn't actually stop there. The company has since expanded
its service in to fifty three additional countries, everywhere from
Canada to Mongolia to Marin County. But McNally actually isn't
(14:34):
alone in this because Guinness has actually been the Pub
Company's partner since the start.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
So what do they do exactly, Because it doesn't sound
like from what you're saying that they're actually operating these
bars right.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
No, the bars are all independently owned and operated, and
Guinness and the Irish Pub Companies serve mostly as designers
and also consultants. So basically a bar owner will contact
them and that's when they're like looking to open an
Irish style pub and McNally and his team worked with
them to design the interior based on each location, and
then once the design is settled, the company builds the
(15:05):
bar tops and all the furniture, and this happens in
Ireland and then shifts it over to the site of
the latest pub.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
So I imagine they are all kind of variations on
the same theme, right I'm picturing lots of dark wood paneling.
You got to have a frame photo of James Joyce
on the wall stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, of course, and Guinness is always always on tap.
But to be fair, the clients do have more design
choices than I certainly expected, right, Like, So McNally and
his team actually offer four different bar styles to build
off of. They've got the country cottage, their brewery pub,
the Victorian pub and the Gaelic pub, and the design
(15:41):
elements for each of these vary pretty widely, but in
each case all of the corresponding to core is supplied
by the company, So it's everything from the furniture to
the lighting to essentially all the chochkeys on the wall.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And so what's the thinking there, like is this approach
supposed to make these pubs more authentic or what.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah. McNally says that authentic design, and authentic Irish food
and authentic Irish beverages are all key ingredients for a
successful Irish pub. He never really defines those terms, so
you're not getting like bloomin Irish onions. But the process
this company follows gives us an idea of what he means.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
You meant the fact that all these pubs are being
designed and like pre built in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, I mean that's a big part of it. Also,
all the materials in decor is sourced from Ireland and
based on the structural elements of like popular bars in Dublin.
So there's actually kind of a lot to back up
the claim that these are quote unquote authentic Irish pubs.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I mean, I guess you're right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And don't get me wrong, it's fascinating that there's a
company responsible for giving all these Irish pubs the same feel.
It just it just seems like such a corporate process
that I can't help but think of it as somehow inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Well I wasn't going to mention this, but it isn't
just one company doing this. Others have actually gotten into
the pub making act over the years, including a company
called Old Irish Pubs Limited and Love Irish Pubs. So
it is a competitive market.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love it. They are just all on the nose
with they're naming.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, and that's exactly what people want, you know. Some
people argue that if you go to the Italy Pavilion
at Epcot, you know, you wouldn't say you've had an
authentic Italian experience. But there is something to be said
for like curating an environment that feels immersive or transportive
and you can evoke a feeling similar to that of
the real place, and sometimes that's a positive experience that
(17:25):
you know, can prompt people to seek out the authentic
version for themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Like I guess if somebody falls in love with the
Irish pub and Phoenix, they may decide to take a
trip over to Ireland.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah. And it's just like we were saying, Taco bell
can be a gateway food to more traditional Mexican food.
But exactly if the manufacturer, big business version can bring
so much happiness, I'm sure people feel like they're just
getting a taste of it. They'd love to be a
place where this is happening more regularly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I can't stop thinking about Taco Bell now Mango. This
is a real problem. I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Let's go back to the spirit of placemaking, because there's
a quote I wanted to share from the interview McNally
did for Men's Journal. He's talking about how the Irish
pub concept is more than just a money making scheme
aimed at tourists, and as he puts it, quote, people
engage with the sense of community, friendship, and conviviality that
they find in an authentic Irish pub. In that sense,
(18:17):
pubs are an important connection from Ireland and its people
to the rest of the world, and for the irishmen
and women living abroad, the pubs are gathering venues which
allow them to feel home. It's a portal to Ireland.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, I can see what he means.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
It's interesting, like the more we talk about all this,
the more I can see how that connection between food
and authenticity might mean different things to different people, like
a sense of home or comfort, a feeling of adventure,
a taste of the exotic, or like a display of
common values. But there's always more to it than just
simply having a meal of course.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, it's starting to make more sense why voters like
seeing politicians eat comfort food, right, Like, it's a play
to emotions more than reason. But if anything, that only
makes it more effective.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
All right, well now we've got a bit more to
say on this subject, but first let's take one more
quick break.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Welcome back to part time Genius.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
All right, Mango, you were telling us about how Irish
pubs have flourished over the past three decades, and it
started to sound kind of familiar. And then it hit me, Mango,
the restaurant we haven't brought up yet, Cracker Barrel.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Of all the restaurants in all the world, I didn't
think you were going to bring up Cracker Barrel.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, you know, the chain restaurant that uses the old
Southern country store motif. And they, of course created quite
a stir last year when they tried to change their
longtime logo.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
You remember all this nonsense.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right, Yeah, I think they wanted to ditch the cracker barrel. Right.
And also that old guy sitting next to that.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Cracker barrel, Yeah, he's been sitting there so long. Well, anyway,
his name if you remember is Uncle Herschel, the salesman.
The the salesman uncle of Cracker Barrel founder Dan Evans.
But yeah, the company wanted to attract new customers and
they thought that a simpler streamline logo would help them
do it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
But that wasn't all.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Like the rebrand was also going to include a major
overhaul of the restaurant's interiors.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So first of all, I had no idea his name
was Uncle Herschel. And I feel like that's the type
of thing I should know, right knowing all the trivia
we know, like, it feels like that's something I want
to come up. But I also remember you actually took
me to my first Cracker Barrel. I'd never do to
say that, and we went to college, and I just
remember it was such a novel thing because there were
like rocking chairs on the porch and there was like
(20:37):
a little country store. But beyond that, I really don't
remember much about the interior.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
A lot of rock and chairs, a lot of those
peg games. And there are actually more than six hundred
Cracker Barrel locations across the country, and every one of
them is stuffed with roughly a thousand pieces of old
timey Americana, but in this effort to draw younger crowd,
all of those nostalgic props were set to be removed.
It turns out so nobody really wanted this slick, modern
(21:02):
cracker barrel, because when the plans were made public, the
Internet went ballistic. I don't know if you know this, Mango,
but sometimes the Internet is not very friendly to things,
and the fact that this restaurant kind of had this
disregard for its own look and history like it pretty
much upset everyone, from the lifelong diners to the people
who were only familiar with the brand from its highway signs.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean, I don't understand why people who were just
familiar with the brand from the highway signs were that
upset about it.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
But people love to get worked up.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I'm sure it was a tough week for the marketing team, right.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Oh yeah, I'm guessing. So it seemed like a brutal
week for the marketing team. But again it you know,
it all speaks to the importance of perceived authenticity. People
thought the restaurant wasn't going to be true to its roots,
and the backlash led to a one hundred million dollar
drop in the company's market value. So as a result,
the changes were completely dropped. Uncle Herschel was called out
of retirement and all that stuff on the restaurant's walls
(21:57):
were left right where it was.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I mean, I didn't know they had one hundred million
dollars to drop.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
But I hope we don't ever say anything dumb and
have one hundred million dollar drop in the value of
part time genius.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You know, be careful.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
But it's also so funny. It's like, because they decided
to upgrade the design, that's so insane.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's really weird, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I am still curious about the decor, though, Like, can
you remind me what is on those walls that people
are so attached to?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I sure can. I've actually got a list right here.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So at any given Cracker barrel, you're likely to find
all manner of antiques mounted on the walls and even
hanging from the ceiling, including all right, here we go,
butter churns, washtubs, tobacco cans, old bottles, farm implements, nickel
soda machines, black and white portraits, shoe trees, vintage metal signs,
kitchen tools, mechanics tools, and of course bicycles.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I have forgotten all of that. I feel like we
need to make another visit.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Time to go back for their dish. They have a
dish mango if you remember, called chicken fried chicken, which
really just confuses people. So I'm gonna let people do
their own research as to what that means. But it
is nostalgia central. And one cool thing I read though,
is that there are five special items that are placed
in every store that they open. Those signature items are
a traffic light, a cookstove, a deer head, a telephone,
(23:16):
and of course a shotgun.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know, the essentials.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I love that a traffic light, like, what is the light?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Gotta have a traffic light.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Also, it is so weird that you didn't say a
cracker barrel.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I guess that would just be too obvious.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
My guess is all of them probably have a cracker
barrel in there at some point. But anyway, so what
is interesting is that all the other items vary from
store to store, and many are specially chosen for that location. So,
for example, the cracker barrel in coastal towns might have
a bunch of fishing gear on the walls to make
it feel more authentically local.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So, speaking of authentic, are all these items real antiques
or are they mostly like props made to look old.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
That's actually a really good question, and I would not
have guessed the answer to this, but surprisingly they are
all antique. I actually read this interview this week with
one of the original decor managers for Cracker Barrel. It's
a guy named Larry Singleton, and to the best of
his knowledge, every item hung on the walls is one
hundred percent authentic, meaning not a reproduction of an item,
but the actual item itself, and none of the items
(24:21):
were manufactured within the last few decades.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Where do they get this stuff?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Apparently the company has this whole warehouse full of stuff
at their headquarters in Lebanon, Tennessee, and it's a twenty
six thousand square foot facility that houses somewhere north of
one hundred thousand items at any given time, each of
which is inventoried with its own unique barcode. So there's
a mockup of a history interior in the warehouse. And
anytime a new restaurant is scheduled to open, the design
(24:47):
team pulls out a load of rustic decors and sort
of arranges it on their set. They then take pictures
so the arrangement can be reproduced and all the items
are packed up and shipped to that new location.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
That's kind of a fascinating process. Yeah, so does the
company just have an army of antique spires or something,
because it feels like it must take an awful lot
of antiques to constantly fill that massive warehouse.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
No, that's definitely true, and apparently it's getting tougher as
the years go by. So shows like American Pickers and
others centered on antiquing have really stepped up the competition
and of course made it harder to find some of
the old items that have become Cracker Barrel staples. But
the good news is there's no need to panic just yet.
I could sense you were on the verge of panicking there.
But the company has built this nationwide network of antique
(25:34):
dealers during its sixty years in business, and they're determined
to keep Cracker Barrel flush with butter churns for many
years to come.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
All right, so we can breathe easy. It does make
me wonder, though, like if other theme restaurants have similar
arrangements to this. This makes me think about decor in general.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Now, yeah, yeah, they definitely do.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
So if you think about something like Planet Hollywood, for instance,
he does something similar with their stores. The company has
this stockpile of authentic props and it divvies them out
to each location, and that way customers can experience the
thrill of sitting next to the boxing gloves stallone Warren Rocky,
or Brendan Fraser's loincloth from Georgia the Jungle, or you
think about all of these sort of classic and strange
items from different movies.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
That's really interesting. I also wonder like, has anyone ever
specifically asked to be seated next to Brendan Fraser's loin clawn?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I think after this episode that's gonna happen. Only Brendan
Fraser has asked to do that is actually my guess.
But back on the topic, So TGI Friday's is actually
another example. So they've got a twenty five thousand square
foot warehouse somewhere in Nashville, and they refuse to disclose
the exact location and is it apparently piled high with memorabilia.
So the company has looser guidelines for its decore than
(26:42):
Cracker Barrel, but it still claims that about seventy five
percent of the items on display are actual antiques. TGI
Friday's even has its own signature items that appear in
every single store. One of them that I thought was
interesting an air aarplane collar over the bar and a
racing skull, which is meant to remind employees that they
should work as a team, with all oars pulling together
in the same direction.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's also so funny to me that, like, they've got
a massive warehouse and they won't tell you where it
is for fear of like what theft.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
To any good things?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
There?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Man to any good things?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So what about things like the taxidermy alligator heads like
that where sunglasses? Do you have any idea what that represents?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I don't actually know either way.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
All this talk of TGIF and cracker barrel it makes
me really think we ought to plan our next trip
to actually to both of these, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
But before we do, what do you say we make
time for a fact off, here's something about that authentic
Indian food that I never told you because you and
I both love chicken tka masala. So while the dish
feels rich and complex and you know deeply Indian. It's
actually a modern remix born outside India, and most often
(27:54):
it is credited to Britain.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Some people call it Scottish.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The dish likely emerged when South Asian cooks in the
UK adapted traditional chicken tika, which is like dry, spiced
grilled meat, and added a creamy tomato sauce to suit
the British diners who wanted something richer and less dry. So,
in other words, it's essentially a diaspora cuisine. It is
Indian technique and Western preferences, so kind of like that
(28:19):
fusion we were talking about. And in India, you know,
it does exist, but in the UK it's way more
popular and it's often jokingly called Britain's national dish. Like
many authentic foods, chicken tika masala isn't about historical purity.
It's about adaptation, migration and cooks solving a very practical
problem how to make unfamiliar food comforting to a new audience.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
All Right, So a lot of people have probably heard
the fact that champagne can only be called champagne if
it was made in the Champagne region of France. Otherwise
it's just sparkling white wine. But what I didn't know
before is that that geographic distinction was actually written into
the Treaty of Versailles is a way to secure the
valuable brand name for French winemakers in the wake of
World War One. But since the United States never signed
(29:05):
that treaty, American winemakers had a free pass to continue
using the term for decades, whether the French liked it or.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Not, and I'm guessing they did not like it they did.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It turns up that.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Means there's no such thing as California champagne then.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Right, I mean technically no, And in two thousand and six,
the USNEU actually made a deal to start phasing out
the term's use on American products, so you won't find
a lot of California champagne on the shelves these days.
And that said, there are actually a few American producers
who were grandfathered in and are still permitted to use
the word on their labels. This includes Corbell, which has
been making California champagne since back in eighteen eighty, two
(29:44):
decades before the Treaty of Versailles was actually drafted, and
Miller High Life, which has billed itself as the quote
as we know champagne fags, right, that's right, you know
your fancy stuff, and that since nineteen o six, again
predating the treaty.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
That is so amazing that the Champagne of beers was
Grandfather Day.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It definitely is.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And while all of this might sound ridiculous to us,
the French government actually takes it very very serious. Last year,
a French winemaker was sentenced to a year and a
half in prison for making and selling thousands of bottles
of fake champagne.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So I'm not sure if you knew this, but did
you know that there is a real anti end behind
the mall food?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Oh? No kidding it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
A Delicious Pretzel company started as a humble roadside stand
and it was run by Ann Baylor, Pennsylvania Mennonite women
who originally sold soft pretzels to support a free counseling
center that her family had opened. In Mennonite culture, food
is practical, it's communal, it is intentionally simple, so there
is no flash. There's no indulgence for indulgence's sake. The
(30:48):
pretzels were just meant to be filling and affordable. Instead,
they've turned kind of this crave engineered snack, right like.
Once the recipe hit malls in the late nineteen eighties,
everything shifted. They added a butter sugar crept in. Cinnamon
sugar became a thing, and the smell itself became part
of the product. What began is this faith rooted, service
oriented side project actually evolved into a global brand built
(31:12):
on roma marketing, impulse buying, and indulgence. It was still
selling this handrol tradition, just now it was under fluorescent
lights next to you a sneaker store.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
All right.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Well, in a similar vein, there are tons of so
called national foods that actually aren't from where their names
suggest they might be. So for example, French fries are
from Belgium, Russian dressing was invented in New Hampshire, sauerkraut
hails from China, not Germany. Swedish meatballs were originally Turkish,
and danishes were created by Austrian bakers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
So basically our pantries are kind of a den of lives.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Also, German chocolate cake isn't actually German. It was invented
by an English American named Samuel German.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That's pretty amazing. I guess that's a good reminder of
just how meaningless idea of authentic we can sometimes be.
So for that, I think you deserve today's trophy.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
All right.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I didn't think I would take it for that, but
Samuel Jerman, thank you very much. All right, well, I'd
like to dedicate this trophy to the good people of Australia,
where sophisticated palettes have been maligned for far too long.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That's going to do it for today's show.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
If you enjoyed what you heard, be sure to subscribe,
leave us a nice rating, and share the show with
a friend. If you don't mind, you can also drop
us a line at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. Again,
that's Hi, Geniuses at gmail dot com. Or call the
hotline day or night Mango. This hotline is open twenty
four to seven, three sixty five, just like waffle House,
which we didn't talk about today NonStop. That number is
(32:40):
three h two four oh five five nine two five.
We would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah. We actually recently got a message from a listener
named Oliver who was asking us to do an episode
all about the cool inventions Canada has come up with
over the years. And Oliver, great minds. Do you think alike,
because we already have an episode on that very subject.
It's called Thanks Canada, Nine Great Inventions from the Great
White North. But I love inventions. I love invention origins.
(33:07):
I'm actually gonna go research and try ay more for
you and put them up on Instagram. And that's just
for you, Oliver. That is it for today's episode from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary,
and myself. Thank you so much for listening. Part Time
(33:34):
Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. It is
hosted by my good pal Will Pearson, who I've known
for almost three decades now. That is insane to me.
I'm the uta co host, Mangeshatikular aka Mango. Our producer
is Mary Phillips Sandy. She's actually a super producer. I'm
gonna fix that in post. Our writer is Gabe Lucier,
(33:56):
who I've also.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Known for like a decade at this point, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Dylan Fagan is in the booth. He is always dressed up,
always cheering us on, and always ready to hit record
and then mix the show after he does a great job.
I also want to shout out the executive producers from
iHeart my good pals Katrina and Norvel and Ali Perry.
We have social media support from Calypso Rallis if you
like our videos, that is all Calypso's handiwork. For more
(34:24):
podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or tune in wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That's it from us here at Part Time Genius. Thank
you so much for listening.
Part-Time Genius News
Hosts And Creators
Will Pearson
Mangesh Hattikudur
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Season 5
Saskia Inwood woke up one morning, knowing her life would never be the same. The night before, she learned the unimaginable – that the husband she knew in the light of day was a different person after dark. This season unpacks Saskia’s discovery of her husband’s secret life and her fight to bring him to justice. Along the way, we expose a crime that is just coming to light. This is also a story about the myth of the “perfect victim:” who gets believed, who gets doubted, and why. We follow Saskia as she works to reclaim her body, her voice, and her life. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at betrayalpod@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.