April 19, 2026 • 40 mins
Hey PTG fans, Mangesh (aka Mango) has another show, Skyline Drive! On Sundays we’ll be sharing episodes from season 1 right here, so you can get excited for season 2, which drops in June.
Skyline Drive was selected as an Apple Podcasts Series Essential! Listen ad-free for a limited time.
Mangesh begins his journey into the weird, wonderful world of astrology with a little help from his mom, a science writer, a famous musician, and one very sneaky author! But when an ominous prediction suddenly comes true, his life turns upside down.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, there are podcast listeners. It is Mango here and
I've got something special, a little different for you today.
It is a show called Skyline Drive that I made
a couple of years ago with my friends. I'm actually
working on season two right now. It's going to be
out in June, so I thought this would be the
perfect time to catch up on season one. The first
season of Skyline Drive is a show about astrology, or
(00:23):
kind of about astrology. At first, I thought it would
be a bit like Part Time Genius, with facts and
fun stories told by me, a total skeptic. But then
this astrologery made a terrible prediction about my dad and
it came true, and it really changed the trajectory of
this series. So I went on this epic journey across
continents to find out what it means when you don't
(00:43):
believe in astrology, but astrology happens to you. And along
the way I still found all these wild facts, like
the true story of Nancy Reagan's obsession with astrology and
how it affected the world, or these two baseball astrologers
who actually help managers figure out which players to pick
in drafts. There's even a woman who turned to the
stars to write the last chapter of her life. It
(01:05):
was a joy to make. It was hard to make,
but Apple actually called it one of their favorite series
of all times, which is kind of incredible. So I
hope you'll check it out starting today with episode one.
We're going to air it every Sunday through the course
of the series. And the first episode also features one
of my favorite favorite people, aj Jacobs, who has a
(01:26):
hilarious story and he's obviously one of our favorite guests
at PTG, so I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approved stoning. Sensitive listeners take care.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So here's a confession I'm gonna make right at the
top of the show. I don't believe in astrology, but
astrology keeps happening to me now. Everyone says podcasting is
the most visual medium, so I made you a slideshow
to try to explain. This is the real skyline drive.
It's in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep,
(02:32):
it's one of the many places I would drive to
look at the stars. This is the moon. It rules
our emotions. This is mercury in retrograde. You know it
because it makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kitu.
They're important and mischievous nodes in Veda astrology. They're prominent
and Donald Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris hiltan.
(02:54):
This is me. I was born May one, nineteen seventy nine.
This is the sky at the time I was born.
In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are
some other tauruses, polepot Iatola, Komeni, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler,
Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all tauruses has made
me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are
(03:18):
my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every
morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea
and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil.
It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling. In the
middle of this recording, sim Marisha, I thank you a girl,
so it's calling back, give me a call. This is
India when I was growing up, where it's like yoga
(03:39):
and meditation and turmeric and astrology. These are words that
were part of my Indian life, but they weren't a
part of my going to school fitting into America one.
But now now everyone has an opinion about it. I'm
a Gemini, which I've heard is bab.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
That's definitely true.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I'm a torus. Find it starts to be beautiful. It
sucks that we can't see you starting New York because
all the lights.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I know a few people who are kind of into it,
and they like, ask, yo, do you see the horoscope today?
And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried
about what the horoscope says.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I know a lot of people don't believe in it,
but why can't people just believe in things for fun,
Like it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Have to be backed up by anything.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
But if you believe in fantasy football, why can't you
believe in astrology.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
A few months ago, my friends and I set out
to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run
around the city and have some wild adventures and understand
why after so many millennia, people still look to the
sky for answers. This is an astrologer I met in
Queen's He promised me, you're gonna dig this show.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
But I think if you do your own show, it'll
become a super hit, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
This is a graph of how much I believed in
astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a
graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later
when something horrible he said came true.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
That's why I asked. From the time it started a
couple of years back till now, the situation doesn't look good.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumbprint. And the time you're going to walk
through that door, this is me walking through that door.
(05:30):
I'm Munga's Particular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline
Drive Chapter one. Leave your acts at home.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
So I figured, you know, I do need to sown
an astrologer. And there are a bunch of astrologers on
the Upper West Side who have set off with these.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Wait till you're looking for an astrologer to sewn.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I need to check it off the list.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I've got a hundred, you know already, This reporting and
starting off weirder than I thought. It's ten o'clock on
a bright summer day, and I'm standing here with Aj Jacobs.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I am an author and a journalist and a pisces.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
In addition to being a pisces or technically on the
cusp of pisces and ares. AJ's a friend and he's
one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet him
in this neighborhood because in two thousand and seven he
wrote a New York Times best called The Year of
Living Biblically. The book was a phenomenon. It came out
in multiple languages, There were magazine and TV pieces about it.
(07:08):
It was such a big deal that at one point
Marlon Wayne's was lined up to play Aj in the
Network TV version.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible. So that meant
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics. So I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blends.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Giving up polycotton blends is just one of the hardshifs
Aja endured in the name of journalism. He also grew
a massive beard, shoved of wild birds so he could
steal its egg and say a prayer on it. And
he followed seven hundred other biblical rules literally in an
attempt to understand religion. And somewhere along the way, he
decided that to fully appreciate the Bible.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
You actually had to stone people who who committed these abominations.
And the abominations included adulter a, breaking the Sabbath, but
also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all sort of lumped together.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was
a shock to me. I mean, Aj is one of
the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I
just wanted to check it off my list, you know,
stone and astrologer check. So I walked by this astrologer
on the street and just very subtly dropped the pebble
so that it landed on her.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Shoe, kind of a drive by stoning, And I.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Was thinking she's probably not even gonna notice because I
just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's
going on? Why did you do that? And so I
had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible.
I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not
think it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She I was pissed.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
She started yelling at me like, F you go to
f and hell, I was rattled. Even if you're trying
to stone someone in modern day using pebbles, people don't
like it. Well that's a lesson.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
That's a takeaway rule number one, don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show on astrology it actually
(09:33):
makes me nervous, like is there a way to talk
about how accurate a fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astro curse can make you bald? Because even if the
show makes me look silly, like I don't want to
get disinvited from a family wedding because I said something
(09:54):
that hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts
stock in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads
and things like, how do you tell a story delicately
where you're not offending people but still engaging with all
the subjects.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I had that exact dilemma when I was writing The
Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as
an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is
go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an
agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're
(10:30):
just an explorer, So just go in like with no acts,
leave your axes at home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That I think I can do. After the break, we
talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology. Take
a subway ride to Queen's and hear this from my mom.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
I felt like a josic though.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Chapter two, just for fun is the phone listening? Are
you listening through the phone pattern?
Speaker 6 (11:18):
AI?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
The algorithm that is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty,
one of my friends shot me a text linking to
this video of Channing Tatum, the actor had uploaded it
himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But
when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he
freaked out, are you listening through my phone and then
just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of and the
(11:38):
stuff you know what?
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Pattern?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
People?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You should just call me. I need answers right now,
poor Channing. I don't know if he ever got his answers,
but what I do know is that astrology is ubiquitous
and lucrative. One venture capital investor told The New York
Times that the app co star this Pattern competitor had
the POTENTI to be a twenty four billion dollar business,
(12:03):
claiming you could one day be as big as Spotify.
But if astrology is as big an opportunity as everyone's saying,
I'm wondering if my company should get in on the act.
After all, it feels so obvious that I don't know
even a nine year old could see the potential. So
I decided to try to pitch out on my nine
year old Ruby.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Hey, only, why let me get this closet.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I brought you to this closet because I wanted to
pitch you on an astrology app. Are you ready for it?
Why is that? What do you think about astrology?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
It's dumb?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Oh gosh, Well, maybe you're not the right person for it.
But the reason I came to you is because you
actually have a bank. You spend only my money. You
seem to hoard all your money, and you keep all
of Henry's money as well, which you charge him a
small fee for. So I thought you might be the
savviest person in this family. Is it okay if I
pitch you an astrology app?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So, so here's my case for it. These aren't your
grandmother's horse ghosts, right, They're talking to you in this
very fresh and fun way. They're up to the minute
with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they have a
chat feature where astrologers will chat with you live about
your birth charts. Right. And then by twenty nineteen, right,
(13:20):
like you could see, astrology are starting to take over
Bumble the dating app. They start allowing you to sort
your matches by their birth signs, so like you could say,
like I only want to date Tauruses, or I only
want to date Geminis or whatever. In fact, astrology in
twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't help
(13:45):
whether you're serious or not. But apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those search hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(14:06):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Oh? I know, I'm just speenning. Oh my running on
a skateboard? Now on you?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay? Well, so Ruby, what type of business would you
invest in? Bubble gum? Okay? Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.
(14:45):
When you go out with the recorder in hand, it's
interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found
scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest
in astrology to us because they were afraid of losing
their jobs. We found PhDs and postdocs who are worried
that if they talked at all to our podcasts, even
to say that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions.
(15:07):
I mean, it is insanity. What a lightning rod astrology
can be. But luckily we found Jamie Green.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut
that had the germ in it, and he said, that's
going to become a plant. And it was just things
like that that got me interested in the world, which
is the same as being interested in science.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Jamie is a celebrated science.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Writer, and I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it
from looking at anything about my life. I've got some
planet in Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
She has a new book coming out called The Possibility
of Life, and she's co editor of the annual Best
American Science and Nature writing volumes. And whether it's chatting
about our garden or the way we perceive constellations, her
capacity for wonder is incredible and infectious. But perhaps what
I love most about Jamie was how she clarified that
(16:05):
science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds
with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.
Not that she thinks astrology is a science.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a
lot of meaning because it's all very human centric. From
the point of view of looking at the stars from Earth.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
The stars are light years apart. They have no real
relation to each other except in our minds. But that relationship,
the one we make up while looking up at the stars,
that means something, or it can mean something if you
want it to. It's like a much more.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And I don't mean that disparagingly.
I just think that it's for you to take from
it what you need. And like, we don't think it's
anti science to say a poem is true. I think
that's where science gets defensive, is when people say that
astrology is a science and has physical roots in the stars.
(17:10):
It's like, oh no, it doesn't, but it's true the
way a poem is true.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me. And it's something
my friend Pete also said when I talked to him,
Pete Steele is, well, it's complicated, so.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Like, even though I was in like a semi successful musician.
I was like, I need to make money somehow, like
right now, Like what other skills do I have?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (17:45):
I do astrology.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
He is a rock star, like a real rock star.
He used to be in the Walkman, Oh, that massive
seminal indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was
professional astrology. When he was younger, he trained with this
(18:09):
big famous guru. He was living in his guest house
and that's where he learned to read star charts.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
You would take him back to him and he would
say like, no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Like you're wrong, you know, And then he kind of
in very traditional style like yell at the apprentice sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Kung Fu master right, a very.
Speaker 8 (18:30):
Very karate kid kind of feeling right.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Sign.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
But here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
It's just art to me. And I don't mean that dismissively, like,
but that's like my whole being, Like that's what I
care about.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,
a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and
I both spent formative years in India, and we have
a certain comfort in the magical.
Speaker 8 (19:06):
If you read like one hundred Years of Solitude or
something like that, world of like this kind of magical Columbia,
you know, it's like that felt very similar in a
lot of ways to how we were raised.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why
was my family's little community in India so well off
a century ago? You could say it's because of luck
or global economics. You could say it's because when the
Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed
more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that
(19:45):
the US had been producing. And my family they just
happened to be in the right place to manage mills
and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell
the story in a way that's way, way more magical
that a great great answer. Sester had this powerful vision
from a goddess that if he chanted a simple string
of prayers every single night, and he taught all his
(20:07):
children to sing it, and they taught all their children,
His people would be protected for years, and for most
of my life, I only knew that second story Shatad
would be Maji I must love yea ma Luxhmi Maiji
(20:28):
must love ja ja kadambe I'm babie Chapter four, Mopeds
and Mini Skirts. Arranged marriage has always been this thing
that's hard for me to talk about. When I first
moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary school had all
(20:50):
these questions for me about being Indian, right, like does
your family sleep on a bed of nails? Can charm snakes?
Just you know, these things they'd seen on cartoon, and
arranged marriage was just another one of these questions I'd
have to feel, except this one actually bothered me more
because this time I'd have to admit that, yes, my
(21:11):
parents did have an arranged marriage, and then I'd have
to explain that the thing is, everyone assumed my mom
and dad were like forcibly, paired off when they were
nine years old and then sent away to work and
have kids, and that isn't true. It's like my parents'
situation was a little more like pride and prejudice, Like
(21:33):
you come from a good family, your parents want you
to marry into another good family, So they set you up.
They make introductions to certain people, and if you like
each other, they kind of fast track the marriage, or
they make more introductions. But since this was already super
hard to explain, I just left out the part of astrology,
(21:54):
which also plays a big role in the whole arranged
marriage thing. It was like, I don't know, just too
difficult or embarrassing something. After all, it's a weird thing
to have to admit you only exist because of astrology.
But I'll let my mom explain. Tell me about how
(22:15):
your marriage was arranged.
Speaker 7 (22:16):
Oh that's funny, okay. Umish's aunt Shardaka, she came to
see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I guess this story starts, of course, with two families
dusting off their kid's horoscopes and heading them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
So they matched it and it mashed perfectly.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than
just saying is you a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage
is supposed to be a union of souls, so the
astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure
test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,
even how a couple health will be affected by one another.
(23:02):
It's all on the scale of thirty six points, and
any match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered, But anything
over thirty two, that's something you want to lock down immediately.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
My patents want to make sure that the man and
married did not ye let me, she asked the astrology,
you know, how is his nature? So the Strolgia todama
that Umish was a gentle creature, you know, never lost
his temper.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So this part is one hundred percent crue. I've only
ever heard my dad yell a handful of times, and
most of that was when our dog Lupini would just
race out of the house and he would run after
her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese, just
waving it to try to tempt her back, and it
always worked because she was super greedy.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
But one fault he'd have is never come on time
to the table to have dinner. And we thought it
was a big joke, and that came true if we
couldn't believe that estrology could be that powerful to tell
a quok like that.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Wasn't there something else with the mother in law?
Speaker 7 (24:05):
The mother law. Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
I really don't know. They said it was something to
do with the stars, and if I had a mother
in lot, it wouldn't go back so here Umish had
lost his mother when he was under a year. I
think we just about a year, so it was perfect.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an ayah or a nanny,
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about. But if his mom had survived, my parents
(24:49):
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom, even though my
grandmom was working really hard to set her up, was
not keen to get married.
Speaker 7 (25:02):
I wasn't ready. I was still studying and I was
in my final year for Masters studying linguistics. I didn't
want to give that up and didn't want to get
married that fast. Yeah, so I felt like a Josico.
I wasn't happy and things were really moving faster than
I ever expected. So I said, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Follow this, so just to get the picture. A typical
woman hoping for a match would be waiting, sitting by
her parents, dressed in a sorry or something traditional, like
making a big show of what a quiet and obedient
wife they could be. And instead I had.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
A miniskirton and I had lambretta.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late,
like my mom is the most punctual person I know.
She gets at the airport three hours ahead of time,
and that since I was a kid, so she's clearly
trying to tank this thing.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
And my hair I'd let it lose and curly wasn't done.
But instead, you know, Mishusana said, oh, that's no problem.
We love more than girls.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What type of woman do you think Amma was expecting
to present.
Speaker 7 (26:14):
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
animal lover.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was
sure to tell my dad's family this.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
I had no interest in cooking.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Anyway, despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen
and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she
somehow still won my dad's family over.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
So Ama said, here's the deal. Let him write to you.
If you don't like him, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Here was a charming writer.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
He was a charming writer.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person, you.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
Know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, oh, this
is great. I can handle him.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are
lots of wonderful bits things that make me think those
thirty two points mean something Like once when they were young,
they visited Paris and they went to dinner at this
fancy restaurant with a ballroom, and then orchestra started playing
and no one was dancing crickets. So my dad just
(27:23):
whisked my mom onto the dance floor, and then slowly
everyone in the place joins in. And when my parents
went back to their table, the band leader had actually
sent them this gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank
you for livening the place up and forgetting everyone dancing.
I mean, if astrology can promise you those sorts of
scenes like who wouldn't listen. Of course, astrology has done
(27:45):
damage in the family too. Here's my mom telling me
about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
Speaker 7 (27:51):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Who's your cousin, Nana.
Speaker 7 (27:57):
Nana from Manglo, Nal So there was a danger of
his brother dying if the girl married None.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
No, the astrologers have predicted that if the couple went
through with the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it
could lead to Nanu's brother's death. I mean, who wants
that on their hands, even if it's putting your chances
for love at risk.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
So to this day, he stood a bachelor.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Really, Oh wow, what do you think about that?
Speaker 7 (28:27):
It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,
but he just was dejected. He said, normal girls, normal horoscopes.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
It is really is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me. First,
the chasm between the way Americans and Indians used astrology
that only felt wider, Like no app was going to
tell you to quit your NBA to marry some guy
in America or to break it off with this girl
because it could bring bad luck or death to another
family member, like the starkness of the way Indian astrology
(29:13):
can be used to control lives. It felt so dark
but also pretty intriguing, like it only made me want
to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered
is this piece of advice AJ gave me about really
embracing the show.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I think you got to go all in. So you've
got to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.
Let's figure out when you should start. When should the
air date be. Who should you hire to help you?
Should it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go
for it, because that's one way to test it to
see does it work for you.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve
both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and
also have some fun with it. But what I didn't
know was that that visit was going to change my life.
(30:23):
Chapter five, We go to Queens. On April ninth, I
headed to Queen's to be an astrologer. He's someone my
friend and showrunner for the show, Mary recommended that I
reach out to, and coincidentally, he happened to be an
(30:44):
astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used hey.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
Hey, how did you pay? Ah?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
That is another rational type. He's kind of this white
shoe lawyer. Master's from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer
in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate.
So I've actually wanted to see him again. So I
took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rakish
Kamar and we entered his white wood frame office. From
the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house,
(31:13):
but when you open the door, you immediately sense these
temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at
the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and
there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall.
And then I turned into this tiny room with a
wooden desk and it had a giant stack of books
(31:35):
on it with a little black laptop on top. Looking around,
I realized how fun this is. I'm here on this
field trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm
so ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience.
Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his
(31:58):
emails and then, using the information I'd sent him a
few days before, he pulls up my chart and turns
on his recorder. So I'm just.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Looking at it. Charged me first nineteen seventy nine, twelve
go four in the afternoon, Summit, New Jersey. You were
born on a Tuesday. You have the sign cancerizing this.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I've got to say, I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kumar dives in. It seems like he's
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix,
And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do is ask doctor Kamar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
(32:38):
dates for my podcast, or if you could predict something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
some questions for me.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
So Ha's work been since January twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
That's when I decided to quit my job.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Okay, so either you would have quick give a what
the job would have quit you one of the things
because the time the such because it impacts your converch
through your work. Can you. It's so ironic. You come
here today two days from now, April thirteenth onwards. Then
after a new chapter of your life begins, another beginning
of your life, which will be very good.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth on my notebook and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kamara continues with more work
related things. He says foreign travelers in the cards, which
is super exciting, and that I should wear an emerald
(33:39):
to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I make
a note to do an episode on gems and Veda
castrology down the line. But the best part is that
doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will go
really well, so.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
It's very profound. So you'll make it begin life. You'll
be very successful in everything, because then it's shoulda.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm so excited about all this tape, getting a start
date for the show, the talk of gems, this prediction
that everything might go well. That I'm caught off guard
by Doctor Kamar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Tell me something about your father, like what he did
for work or still does.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
He's a chemical engineer.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Okay, he's retired.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
He's ill right now. Listening back, I don't know why
I mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamar hadn't asked,
and maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully,
like I thought I should let him know. Years ago
my dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed
through that treatment and he's been cancer free for a
(34:48):
while now. But recently he broke a rip reaching for something,
which was odd, and then he also had this slight
boost and some liver counts which his doctor told him
not to worry about.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Because that's why I asked again. From the time it
started a couple of years back till now, a situation
doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
This thing about my dad. It was a throwaway line
in the middle of an hour and a half interview.
I don't even know how closely I was listening. By
the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.
I had over an hour of material and I was
cutting tape in my head as I was asking questions,
and I felt good. I thanked doctor Kamar for his time,
(35:31):
and I let him run off to feed his mother lunch,
which he does every day, and my cousin and I
walked off to get fresh dosas in Italy's, one of
the many canteens that dot this area of Jackson heights'come too.
I turned back to thank you to you, and then
twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating what's real
(35:56):
about astrology and what isn't and how can you even
tell right? I received this email from my dad. It read,
we just received the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately,
the news is not as good as it could be.
We'll talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakour and let
(36:16):
you know as soon as we can. Study result diffuse
metastatic disease throughout the liver and bones from unknown primary
to cancer. I had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.
I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.
(36:38):
I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this
feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my child.
I don't know what to write, so I just tap out.
I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a
bit and all I'm thinking now is how fast can
(37:01):
I get to Atlanta? Next week? On Skyline Drive, we
(37:25):
take a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who
secretly uses astrology behind your client's backs, and hang out
with a seventy four year old who just wants to
know am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
(37:47):
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by Me
Mungish particular with a ton of help, like so much
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer. Miitra Bunshahi produced this whole thing
(38:09):
despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Lotto is
our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip to
India with me. This episode was mixed by my pal
at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola Mango
is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between is
courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshusuri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If
(38:32):
you want to hear more, we made you a mixtape
just check out the show notes. Additional production and research
support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Shivrau, Lucas, Riley,
Bethan Mcalouzo, Editia bus Thrower, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs.
There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshi and
(38:53):
my cousin Argent Bukshi, who helped me out of a
giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I
Harp by my good pals Nikki Etour and Katrina Norvel.
This show would not have happened without the support of
my friends at Kaleidoscope, starting with my good pal Ozwolishan,
who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.
(39:13):
Also Kate Osborne for her spot on notes, Costas Linos
for his encouragement, and Fahi Mei Shori for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour, all
my friends at iHeart, including Bob Connell, Will Carrie, Nathan Jason, Jerry,
(39:36):
my New York and Atlanta, Cruz. There are too many
to name. Also Shantan Sarub, my family in India, my
family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who read
this episode's warning check out his show's ridiculous history and
stuff they don't want you to know. And just one
last thank you to my Amma and my dad, Zalita
(39:57):
and Mamige Artigudur, who I thank my lucky stars for
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 7 (40:08):
Doom Doom Dom, Doom Doom Domm, Doom Doom Dom, Doom
Doom Dom,
Hey, there are podcast listeners. It is Mango here and
I've got something special, a little different for you today.
It is a show called Skyline Drive that I made
a couple of years ago with my friends. I'm actually
working on season two right now. It's going to be
out in June, so I thought this would be the
perfect time to catch up on season one. The first
season of Skyline Drive is a show about astrology, or
(00:23):
kind of about astrology. At first, I thought it would
be a bit like Part Time Genius, with facts and
fun stories told by me, a total skeptic. But then
this astrologery made a terrible prediction about my dad and
it came true, and it really changed the trajectory of
this series. So I went on this epic journey across
continents to find out what it means when you don't
(00:43):
believe in astrology, but astrology happens to you. And along
the way I still found all these wild facts, like
the true story of Nancy Reagan's obsession with astrology and
how it affected the world, or these two baseball astrologers
who actually help managers figure out which players to pick
in drafts. There's even a woman who turned to the
stars to write the last chapter of her life. It
(01:05):
was a joy to make. It was hard to make,
but Apple actually called it one of their favorite series
of all times, which is kind of incredible. So I
hope you'll check it out starting today with episode one.
We're going to air it every Sunday through the course
of the series. And the first episode also features one
of my favorite favorite people, aj Jacobs, who has a
(01:26):
hilarious story and he's obviously one of our favorite guests
at PTG, so I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approved stoning. Sensitive listeners take care.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So here's a confession I'm gonna make right at the
top of the show. I don't believe in astrology, but
astrology keeps happening to me now. Everyone says podcasting is
the most visual medium, so I made you a slideshow
to try to explain. This is the real skyline drive.
It's in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep,
(02:32):
it's one of the many places I would drive to
look at the stars. This is the moon. It rules
our emotions. This is mercury in retrograde. You know it
because it makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kitu.
They're important and mischievous nodes in Veda astrology. They're prominent
and Donald Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris hiltan.
(02:54):
This is me. I was born May one, nineteen seventy nine.
This is the sky at the time I was born.
In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are
some other tauruses, polepot Iatola, Komeni, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler,
Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all tauruses has made
me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are
(03:18):
my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every
morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea
and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil.
It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling. In the
middle of this recording, sim Marisha, I thank you a girl,
so it's calling back, give me a call. This is
India when I was growing up, where it's like yoga
(03:39):
and meditation and turmeric and astrology. These are words that
were part of my Indian life, but they weren't a
part of my going to school fitting into America one.
But now now everyone has an opinion about it. I'm
a Gemini, which I've heard is bab.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
That's definitely true.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I'm a torus. Find it starts to be beautiful. It
sucks that we can't see you starting New York because
all the lights.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I know a few people who are kind of into it,
and they like, ask, yo, do you see the horoscope today?
And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried
about what the horoscope says.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I know a lot of people don't believe in it,
but why can't people just believe in things for fun,
Like it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Have to be backed up by anything.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
But if you believe in fantasy football, why can't you
believe in astrology.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
A few months ago, my friends and I set out
to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run
around the city and have some wild adventures and understand
why after so many millennia, people still look to the
sky for answers. This is an astrologer I met in
Queen's He promised me, you're gonna dig this show.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
But I think if you do your own show, it'll
become a super hit, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
This is a graph of how much I believed in
astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a
graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later
when something horrible he said came true.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
That's why I asked. From the time it started a
couple of years back till now, the situation doesn't look good.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumbprint. And the time you're going to walk
through that door, this is me walking through that door.
(05:30):
I'm Munga's Particular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline
Drive Chapter one. Leave your acts at home.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
So I figured, you know, I do need to sown
an astrologer. And there are a bunch of astrologers on
the Upper West Side who have set off with these.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Wait till you're looking for an astrologer to sewn.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I need to check it off the list.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I've got a hundred, you know already, This reporting and
starting off weirder than I thought. It's ten o'clock on
a bright summer day, and I'm standing here with Aj Jacobs.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I am an author and a journalist and a pisces.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
In addition to being a pisces or technically on the
cusp of pisces and ares. AJ's a friend and he's
one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet him
in this neighborhood because in two thousand and seven he
wrote a New York Times best called The Year of
Living Biblically. The book was a phenomenon. It came out
in multiple languages, There were magazine and TV pieces about it.
(07:08):
It was such a big deal that at one point
Marlon Wayne's was lined up to play Aj in the
Network TV version.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible. So that meant
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics. So I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blends.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Giving up polycotton blends is just one of the hardshifs
Aja endured in the name of journalism. He also grew
a massive beard, shoved of wild birds so he could
steal its egg and say a prayer on it. And
he followed seven hundred other biblical rules literally in an
attempt to understand religion. And somewhere along the way, he
decided that to fully appreciate the Bible.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
You actually had to stone people who who committed these abominations.
And the abominations included adulter a, breaking the Sabbath, but
also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all sort of lumped together.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was
a shock to me. I mean, Aj is one of
the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I
just wanted to check it off my list, you know,
stone and astrologer check. So I walked by this astrologer
on the street and just very subtly dropped the pebble
so that it landed on her.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Shoe, kind of a drive by stoning, And I.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Was thinking she's probably not even gonna notice because I
just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's
going on? Why did you do that? And so I
had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible.
I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not
think it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She I was pissed.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
She started yelling at me like, F you go to
f and hell, I was rattled. Even if you're trying
to stone someone in modern day using pebbles, people don't
like it. Well that's a lesson.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
That's a takeaway rule number one, don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show on astrology it actually
(09:33):
makes me nervous, like is there a way to talk
about how accurate a fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astro curse can make you bald? Because even if the
show makes me look silly, like I don't want to
get disinvited from a family wedding because I said something
(09:54):
that hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts
stock in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads
and things like, how do you tell a story delicately
where you're not offending people but still engaging with all
the subjects.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I had that exact dilemma when I was writing The
Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as
an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is
go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an
agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're
(10:30):
just an explorer, So just go in like with no acts,
leave your axes at home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That I think I can do. After the break, we
talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology. Take
a subway ride to Queen's and hear this from my mom.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
I felt like a josic though.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Chapter two, just for fun is the phone listening? Are
you listening through the phone pattern?
Speaker 6 (11:18):
AI?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
The algorithm that is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty,
one of my friends shot me a text linking to
this video of Channing Tatum, the actor had uploaded it
himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But
when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he
freaked out, are you listening through my phone and then
just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of and the
(11:38):
stuff you know what?
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Pattern?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
People?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You should just call me. I need answers right now,
poor Channing. I don't know if he ever got his answers,
but what I do know is that astrology is ubiquitous
and lucrative. One venture capital investor told The New York
Times that the app co star this Pattern competitor had
the POTENTI to be a twenty four billion dollar business,
(12:03):
claiming you could one day be as big as Spotify.
But if astrology is as big an opportunity as everyone's saying,
I'm wondering if my company should get in on the act.
After all, it feels so obvious that I don't know
even a nine year old could see the potential. So
I decided to try to pitch out on my nine
year old Ruby.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Hey, only, why let me get this closet.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I brought you to this closet because I wanted to
pitch you on an astrology app. Are you ready for it?
Why is that? What do you think about astrology?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
It's dumb?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Oh gosh, Well, maybe you're not the right person for it.
But the reason I came to you is because you
actually have a bank. You spend only my money. You
seem to hoard all your money, and you keep all
of Henry's money as well, which you charge him a
small fee for. So I thought you might be the
savviest person in this family. Is it okay if I
pitch you an astrology app?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So, so here's my case for it. These aren't your
grandmother's horse ghosts, right, They're talking to you in this
very fresh and fun way. They're up to the minute
with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they have a
chat feature where astrologers will chat with you live about
your birth charts. Right. And then by twenty nineteen, right,
(13:20):
like you could see, astrology are starting to take over
Bumble the dating app. They start allowing you to sort
your matches by their birth signs, so like you could say,
like I only want to date Tauruses, or I only
want to date Geminis or whatever. In fact, astrology in
twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't help
(13:45):
whether you're serious or not. But apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those search hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(14:06):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Oh? I know, I'm just speenning. Oh my running on
a skateboard? Now on you?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay? Well, so Ruby, what type of business would you
invest in? Bubble gum? Okay? Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.
(14:45):
When you go out with the recorder in hand, it's
interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found
scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest
in astrology to us because they were afraid of losing
their jobs. We found PhDs and postdocs who are worried
that if they talked at all to our podcasts, even
to say that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions.
(15:07):
I mean, it is insanity. What a lightning rod astrology
can be. But luckily we found Jamie Green.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut
that had the germ in it, and he said, that's
going to become a plant. And it was just things
like that that got me interested in the world, which
is the same as being interested in science.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Jamie is a celebrated science.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Writer, and I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it
from looking at anything about my life. I've got some
planet in Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
She has a new book coming out called The Possibility
of Life, and she's co editor of the annual Best
American Science and Nature writing volumes. And whether it's chatting
about our garden or the way we perceive constellations, her
capacity for wonder is incredible and infectious. But perhaps what
I love most about Jamie was how she clarified that
(16:05):
science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds
with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.
Not that she thinks astrology is a science.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a
lot of meaning because it's all very human centric. From
the point of view of looking at the stars from Earth.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
The stars are light years apart. They have no real
relation to each other except in our minds. But that relationship,
the one we make up while looking up at the stars,
that means something, or it can mean something if you
want it to. It's like a much more.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And I don't mean that disparagingly.
I just think that it's for you to take from
it what you need. And like, we don't think it's
anti science to say a poem is true. I think
that's where science gets defensive, is when people say that
astrology is a science and has physical roots in the stars.
(17:10):
It's like, oh no, it doesn't, but it's true the
way a poem is true.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me. And it's something
my friend Pete also said when I talked to him,
Pete Steele is, well, it's complicated, so.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Like, even though I was in like a semi successful musician.
I was like, I need to make money somehow, like
right now, Like what other skills do I have?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (17:45):
I do astrology.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
He is a rock star, like a real rock star.
He used to be in the Walkman, Oh, that massive
seminal indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was
professional astrology. When he was younger, he trained with this
(18:09):
big famous guru. He was living in his guest house
and that's where he learned to read star charts.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
You would take him back to him and he would
say like, no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Like you're wrong, you know, And then he kind of
in very traditional style like yell at the apprentice sort
of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Kung Fu master right, a very.
Speaker 8 (18:30):
Very karate kid kind of feeling right.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Sign.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
But here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
It's just art to me. And I don't mean that dismissively, like,
but that's like my whole being, Like that's what I
care about.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,
a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and
I both spent formative years in India, and we have
a certain comfort in the magical.
Speaker 8 (19:06):
If you read like one hundred Years of Solitude or
something like that, world of like this kind of magical Columbia,
you know, it's like that felt very similar in a
lot of ways to how we were raised.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why
was my family's little community in India so well off
a century ago? You could say it's because of luck
or global economics. You could say it's because when the
Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed
more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that
(19:45):
the US had been producing. And my family they just
happened to be in the right place to manage mills
and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell
the story in a way that's way, way more magical
that a great great answer. Sester had this powerful vision
from a goddess that if he chanted a simple string
of prayers every single night, and he taught all his
(20:07):
children to sing it, and they taught all their children,
His people would be protected for years, and for most
of my life, I only knew that second story Shatad
would be Maji I must love yea ma Luxhmi Maiji
(20:28):
must love ja ja kadambe I'm babie Chapter four, Mopeds
and Mini Skirts. Arranged marriage has always been this thing
that's hard for me to talk about. When I first
moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary school had all
(20:50):
these questions for me about being Indian, right, like does
your family sleep on a bed of nails? Can charm snakes?
Just you know, these things they'd seen on cartoon, and
arranged marriage was just another one of these questions I'd
have to feel, except this one actually bothered me more
because this time I'd have to admit that, yes, my
(21:11):
parents did have an arranged marriage, and then I'd have
to explain that the thing is, everyone assumed my mom
and dad were like forcibly, paired off when they were
nine years old and then sent away to work and
have kids, and that isn't true. It's like my parents'
situation was a little more like pride and prejudice, Like
(21:33):
you come from a good family, your parents want you
to marry into another good family, So they set you up.
They make introductions to certain people, and if you like
each other, they kind of fast track the marriage, or
they make more introductions. But since this was already super
hard to explain, I just left out the part of astrology,
(21:54):
which also plays a big role in the whole arranged
marriage thing. It was like, I don't know, just too
difficult or embarrassing something. After all, it's a weird thing
to have to admit you only exist because of astrology.
But I'll let my mom explain. Tell me about how
(22:15):
your marriage was arranged.
Speaker 7 (22:16):
Oh that's funny, okay. Umish's aunt Shardaka, she came to
see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I guess this story starts, of course, with two families
dusting off their kid's horoscopes and heading them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
So they matched it and it mashed perfectly.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than
just saying is you a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage
is supposed to be a union of souls, so the
astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure
test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,
even how a couple health will be affected by one another.
(23:02):
It's all on the scale of thirty six points, and
any match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered, But anything
over thirty two, that's something you want to lock down immediately.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
My patents want to make sure that the man and
married did not ye let me, she asked the astrology,
you know, how is his nature? So the Strolgia todama
that Umish was a gentle creature, you know, never lost
his temper.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So this part is one hundred percent crue. I've only
ever heard my dad yell a handful of times, and
most of that was when our dog Lupini would just
race out of the house and he would run after
her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese, just
waving it to try to tempt her back, and it
always worked because she was super greedy.
Speaker 7 (23:49):
But one fault he'd have is never come on time
to the table to have dinner. And we thought it
was a big joke, and that came true if we
couldn't believe that estrology could be that powerful to tell
a quok like that.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Wasn't there something else with the mother in law?
Speaker 7 (24:05):
The mother law. Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
I really don't know. They said it was something to
do with the stars, and if I had a mother
in lot, it wouldn't go back so here Umish had
lost his mother when he was under a year. I
think we just about a year, so it was perfect.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an ayah or a nanny,
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about. But if his mom had survived, my parents
(24:49):
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom, even though my
grandmom was working really hard to set her up, was
not keen to get married.
Speaker 7 (25:02):
I wasn't ready. I was still studying and I was
in my final year for Masters studying linguistics. I didn't
want to give that up and didn't want to get
married that fast. Yeah, so I felt like a Josico.
I wasn't happy and things were really moving faster than
I ever expected. So I said, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Follow this, so just to get the picture. A typical
woman hoping for a match would be waiting, sitting by
her parents, dressed in a sorry or something traditional, like
making a big show of what a quiet and obedient
wife they could be. And instead I had.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
A miniskirton and I had lambretta.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late,
like my mom is the most punctual person I know.
She gets at the airport three hours ahead of time,
and that since I was a kid, so she's clearly
trying to tank this thing.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
And my hair I'd let it lose and curly wasn't done.
But instead, you know, Mishusana said, oh, that's no problem.
We love more than girls.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What type of woman do you think Amma was expecting
to present.
Speaker 7 (26:14):
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
animal lover.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was
sure to tell my dad's family this.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
I had no interest in cooking.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Anyway, despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen
and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she
somehow still won my dad's family over.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
So Ama said, here's the deal. Let him write to you.
If you don't like him, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Here was a charming writer.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
He was a charming writer.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person, you.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
Know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, oh, this
is great. I can handle him.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are
lots of wonderful bits things that make me think those
thirty two points mean something Like once when they were young,
they visited Paris and they went to dinner at this
fancy restaurant with a ballroom, and then orchestra started playing
and no one was dancing crickets. So my dad just
(27:23):
whisked my mom onto the dance floor, and then slowly
everyone in the place joins in. And when my parents
went back to their table, the band leader had actually
sent them this gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank
you for livening the place up and forgetting everyone dancing.
I mean, if astrology can promise you those sorts of
scenes like who wouldn't listen. Of course, astrology has done
(27:45):
damage in the family too. Here's my mom telling me
about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
Speaker 7 (27:51):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Who's your cousin, Nana.
Speaker 7 (27:57):
Nana from Manglo, Nal So there was a danger of
his brother dying if the girl married None.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
No, the astrologers have predicted that if the couple went
through with the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it
could lead to Nanu's brother's death. I mean, who wants
that on their hands, even if it's putting your chances
for love at risk.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
So to this day, he stood a bachelor.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Really, Oh wow, what do you think about that?
Speaker 7 (28:27):
It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,
but he just was dejected. He said, normal girls, normal horoscopes.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
It is really is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me. First,
the chasm between the way Americans and Indians used astrology
that only felt wider, Like no app was going to
tell you to quit your NBA to marry some guy
in America or to break it off with this girl
because it could bring bad luck or death to another
family member, like the starkness of the way Indian astrology
(29:13):
can be used to control lives. It felt so dark
but also pretty intriguing, like it only made me want
to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered
is this piece of advice AJ gave me about really
embracing the show.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
I think you got to go all in. So you've
got to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.
Let's figure out when you should start. When should the
air date be. Who should you hire to help you?
Should it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go
for it, because that's one way to test it to
see does it work for you.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve
both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and
also have some fun with it. But what I didn't
know was that that visit was going to change my life.
(30:23):
Chapter five, We go to Queens. On April ninth, I
headed to Queen's to be an astrologer. He's someone my
friend and showrunner for the show, Mary recommended that I
reach out to, and coincidentally, he happened to be an
(30:44):
astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used hey.
Speaker 6 (30:47):
Hey, how did you pay? Ah?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
That is another rational type. He's kind of this white
shoe lawyer. Master's from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer
in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate.
So I've actually wanted to see him again. So I
took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rakish
Kamar and we entered his white wood frame office. From
the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house,
(31:13):
but when you open the door, you immediately sense these
temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at
the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and
there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall.
And then I turned into this tiny room with a
wooden desk and it had a giant stack of books
(31:35):
on it with a little black laptop on top. Looking around,
I realized how fun this is. I'm here on this
field trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm
so ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience.
Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his
(31:58):
emails and then, using the information I'd sent him a
few days before, he pulls up my chart and turns
on his recorder. So I'm just.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Looking at it. Charged me first nineteen seventy nine, twelve
go four in the afternoon, Summit, New Jersey. You were
born on a Tuesday. You have the sign cancerizing this.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I've got to say, I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kumar dives in. It seems like he's
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix,
And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do is ask doctor Kamar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
(32:38):
dates for my podcast, or if you could predict something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
some questions for me.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
So Ha's work been since January twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
That's when I decided to quit my job.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Okay, so either you would have quick give a what
the job would have quit you one of the things
because the time the such because it impacts your converch
through your work. Can you. It's so ironic. You come
here today two days from now, April thirteenth onwards. Then
after a new chapter of your life begins, another beginning
of your life, which will be very good.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth on my notebook and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kamara continues with more work
related things. He says foreign travelers in the cards, which
is super exciting, and that I should wear an emerald
(33:39):
to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I make
a note to do an episode on gems and Veda
castrology down the line. But the best part is that
doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will go
really well, so.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
It's very profound. So you'll make it begin life. You'll
be very successful in everything, because then it's shoulda.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm so excited about all this tape, getting a start
date for the show, the talk of gems, this prediction
that everything might go well. That I'm caught off guard
by Doctor Kamar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Tell me something about your father, like what he did
for work or still does.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
He's a chemical engineer.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Okay, he's retired.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
He's ill right now. Listening back, I don't know why
I mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamar hadn't asked,
and maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully,
like I thought I should let him know. Years ago
my dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed
through that treatment and he's been cancer free for a
(34:48):
while now. But recently he broke a rip reaching for something,
which was odd, and then he also had this slight
boost and some liver counts which his doctor told him
not to worry about.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Because that's why I asked again. From the time it
started a couple of years back till now, a situation
doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
This thing about my dad. It was a throwaway line
in the middle of an hour and a half interview.
I don't even know how closely I was listening. By
the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.
I had over an hour of material and I was
cutting tape in my head as I was asking questions,
and I felt good. I thanked doctor Kamar for his time,
(35:31):
and I let him run off to feed his mother lunch,
which he does every day, and my cousin and I
walked off to get fresh dosas in Italy's, one of
the many canteens that dot this area of Jackson heights'come too.
I turned back to thank you to you, and then
twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating what's real
(35:56):
about astrology and what isn't and how can you even
tell right? I received this email from my dad. It read,
we just received the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately,
the news is not as good as it could be.
We'll talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakour and let
(36:16):
you know as soon as we can. Study result diffuse
metastatic disease throughout the liver and bones from unknown primary
to cancer. I had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.
I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.
(36:38):
I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this
feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my child.
I don't know what to write, so I just tap out.
I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a
bit and all I'm thinking now is how fast can
(37:01):
I get to Atlanta? Next week? On Skyline Drive, we
(37:25):
take a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who
secretly uses astrology behind your client's backs, and hang out
with a seventy four year old who just wants to
know am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
(37:47):
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by Me
Mungish particular with a ton of help, like so much
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer. Miitra Bunshahi produced this whole thing
(38:09):
despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Lotto is
our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip to
India with me. This episode was mixed by my pal
at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola Mango
is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between is
courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshusuri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If
(38:32):
you want to hear more, we made you a mixtape
just check out the show notes. Additional production and research
support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Shivrau, Lucas, Riley,
Bethan Mcalouzo, Editia bus Thrower, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs.
There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshi and
(38:53):
my cousin Argent Bukshi, who helped me out of a
giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I
Harp by my good pals Nikki Etour and Katrina Norvel.
This show would not have happened without the support of
my friends at Kaleidoscope, starting with my good pal Ozwolishan,
who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.
(39:13):
Also Kate Osborne for her spot on notes, Costas Linos
for his encouragement, and Fahi Mei Shori for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour, all
my friends at iHeart, including Bob Connell, Will Carrie, Nathan Jason, Jerry,
(39:36):
my New York and Atlanta, Cruz. There are too many
to name. Also Shantan Sarub, my family in India, my
family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who read
this episode's warning check out his show's ridiculous history and
stuff they don't want you to know. And just one
last thank you to my Amma and my dad, Zalita
(39:57):
and Mamige Artigudur, who I thank my lucky stars for
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 7 (40:08):
Doom Doom Dom, Doom Doom Domm, Doom Doom Dom, Doom
Doom Dom,
Part-Time Genius News
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