April 26, 2026 • 40 mins
Mangesh meets Jean, a 74-year-old romantic who decides she's finally open to astrology as she works to rebuild her life. Meanwhile, NYC astrologer Janelle Belgrave joins the team to offer some much-needed counsel; we interview a midwestern therapist who secretly uses astrology to better understand her clients; and Mangesh and his family hold on to hope in the face of some alarming news.
Hey PTG fans, Mangesh (aka Mango) has another show, Skyline Drive! On Sundays we’ll be sharing episodes from season 1 right here, so you can get excited for season 2, which drops in June.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, podcast listeners, It's Mango here and over the
next few weekends, we are revisiting season one of my
show Skyline Drive, and today we are up to episode two.
So in this episode, I'm going to introduce you to Jeane,
who is one of the coolest people I've ever met,
and I say that as someone who's met a ton
(00:21):
of cool people. Jeane has this fascinating life growing up
in Brooklyn. Her parents were Communists, she gets out of
a bad marriage, and now she's in her seventies and
she has decided to turn to astrology for some help
with romance. She really is so wonderful, and I actually
connected her with an astrologer named Janelle, who spoiler alert,
(00:44):
kind of blew her mind. We also talk in this
episode to an anonymous therapist who secretly uses astrology in
her practice, which is insane to me but also kind
of incredible. I really hope you enjoy it, and I
hope you stay tuned for episode three next Sunday.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Warning. The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian tinder, eclipses,
star powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former former lawyer.
For listeners with Victorian sensibilities. Please keep a fan and
smelling salts nearby.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So, I guess my biggest question is am I ever
going to have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
We're sitting in Jean Lebec's third floor apartment right off
the ninety third street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is
a former teacher, just like my mom, roughly the same age,
seventy four, but Jean's a New York City before. She's
got that city girl edge.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
My name is gean Ane Lebec and I am a storyteller.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The sex question. It's big for Jean because she was
married for forty one years and she expected to stay
married forever. But right before the city went into lockdown,
her marriage dissolved, and it's taken her about three years
to get to this point.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Jesus, I don't want to marry anything. I'm not looking
for that, and I don't want to live with anybody.
I'm not looking for that.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But she is craving something, some form of intimacy.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, and
when I've told her these stories about you know, guys who.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Just really want to sex text to you.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
They don't really want to go further than that, all
the weird men that I have had a date with
just Okay, here's where we're at right now. I think
what you need to do is call of inness court service.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
An.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am
barely awake, haven't even had my cup of coffee, and
I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right, Like, is this
sweet seventy four year old woman really asking permission to
hire somebody?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
You're there and it's a very clear cut relationship, you know,
hire them for four hours.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I don't know if an astrologer can help with that.
I don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked
whether it's the right time to hire an escort. But
we're about to find out. From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast,
I'm Monga's Shatika thear Welcome to Skyline Drive Chapter one,
(04:32):
pound Cake and Chemo. So let's talk a second about
Jean's question and questions like these.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
Well, I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Why do scorpios get such a bad wrap?
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have
in my life?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Is it insane to consider trying to be a stand
up comedian as a.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Man who is rapidly balding.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Will any of my hair e grow back? That's what
the show was supposed to be, finding people with questions
I'd never think to ask, pairing them with an astrologer,
then generally having a good time. And I was going
to take this anthropological view of it all like stand back,
watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. But just
(05:20):
as our production was about to get off the ground,
I travel to Queen's to get a reading from a
random astrologer. And that astrologer he warned me that my
dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. Within twenty minutes,
my dad had emailed me that a cancer had spread
through his liver. So now a few days later, I'm
(05:40):
in Kanye's, Georgia. Kanye's is mostly famous for being a
speed trap on the road between Atlanta and Athens, and
my parents settled here because my dad took a job
down the road a few years back. But there's a
little else that would have drawn them here, Like there
(06:02):
are strip malls and waffle houses, banks, targets, and then
these quiet, winding roads that veer off it with names
like Christian Circle. The doctor's office is tucked away on
one of these winding roads, and we're waiting for the
doctor in a little exam room. It's actually the way
my dad wants it. All of us here, my mom, sister, me,
(06:24):
and I'm a little surprised when the doctor walks in
and he's Indian.
Speaker 7 (06:28):
So the pathology report still says preliminary.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I didn't know that they had more of us out
in conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really
know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for
us too, But when he starts, it's clear the news
isn't good.
Speaker 8 (06:48):
Show that then Dialima was started by small tumors, numerous tumors, Bawns.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
It turns out it's an aggressive small self cancer, going
to need an aggressive response.
Speaker 8 (07:01):
The painting is okay, but your disease is behaving way too.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Now it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I've turned on my voice recorder, not for podcasting, but
because I'm feeling lightheaded, uneasy about how much of this
information I will retain, and so far it sounds like
the chemo can only do so much.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Why did I say it's not that great news?
Speaker 8 (07:24):
Because small si lung cancer is notorious not.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
To stay in control with chemotherapy.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
It goes away, but it comes right back.
Speaker 8 (07:32):
So not a good diagnosis at all, but very treatable
in its current situation.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
This whole thing is basically cancer. Whack them all. You
can bat the cancer back, cheer a little, and then
start again until time runs out. The only time I
smile is when my dad asks timidly, oh, yes.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I've heard that, medical Mario and I.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Can help with And I remember my friend Howard when
his dad got cancer. Howard got him a pound cake
loaded with THHC and they spent the night laughing as
his dad shared memories along with these ridiculous life goals,
like how his one regret as a young man in
China was that he'd never taken a shit on the
(08:18):
doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, I daydreamed a little
about sourcing some edibles and playing my dad's favorite records
as we chat through the night before I hear this.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
You really don't want Eellly parents to be dealing with
metastatic cancer.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Three hundred miles away. It's just not.
Speaker 8 (08:39):
Invariably, no matter how smold the treatment goes as lonely marts.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four
more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes.
It's something to hope for, but it's more likely we'll
get three to four months. The thing is there's no
time to waste. A nurse wheels my dad to a
different wing to begin the chemo immediately. My mom is
trying to be brave, but she's still dazed. I tug
(09:10):
at her arm and hold it as we walk to
the car. Everything is daunting, but it also feels manageable.
So instead of worrying, I focus on our wish list.
My dad still speaks some Portuguese from his childhood in Goa,
and I know he wants to see Lisbon. I know
he wants to see his grandkids more. He wants to
(09:31):
see my sister get married. So I'm thinking, what can
I do? What money do we need? How can I
move my schedule around? Four months is not a lot
of time, but I'm going to make it feel like enough.
(10:02):
Chapter two, Secrets and Lies.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I lived in a family with a lot of secrets.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean and I have
a feeling it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful,
unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry
and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos,
there's a living room filled with vintage furniture stuff you'd
cover it from your favorite thrift store. Jeane tells me
(10:32):
to sit anywhere, make myself comfortable, and so I do,
first on this bright, beautiful sofa, and then on an
ottoman just a little closer, doer.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I grew up right here in Brooklyn, matt and bay Ridge,
Wet and Crown Hearts, which is now a groovy, groovy.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Place to live.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But during those days it was a hard working Irish Catholic.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Neighborhood, and we were the only Jewish families.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Kids playing marbles by nickel con, hanging out on studs,
running around the neighborhood until the lamp posts flicker and
you just know it's time to raise home. It all
sounds so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in
something darker because of her parents' political leanings.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
We lived this kind of life of secrets and lives.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't
tell anybody they knew Julison Ethel Rosenburg.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
It runs for me, oh refresher on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Julius Rosenberg, a Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg A Libra met
and fell in love at the Young Communist League.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
When Torus and Libra got together in a love affair,
it can be the unification of two halves of a whole.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Julius had a steady job working for the Army Signal
Corps as an engineer, but he was fired for being a.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Socialist Communism what is it?
Speaker 8 (12:01):
Who are the apostles of a system that attempts to destroy.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
The American way of life?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
In the nineteen forties and fifties, a communist panic swept
across America, set off by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy.
McCarthy was known for his wild and sensational attacks.
Speaker 8 (12:20):
The Scorpio zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings
and is unafraid of either. They also travel in a
world that is black and white and has little use
for gray.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders
were terrified for their lives and careers In nineteen fifty,
the couple was put on trial for passing atomic secrets
to the Soviets. The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still
got the electric chair. The man who prosecuted them, a
twenty three year old pisces named Roy Kohane. One witness
(12:56):
from the trial, tried to take back his testimony. He
said the reason he lied on the stand was because
con had threatened to lock up his wife and make
life hell for his family.
Speaker 8 (13:06):
Many people associate pisces with dreams and secrets as a
mutable sign ICs holds, adaptive, fluid, and sheep shifting qualities.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Anyway, back to Gene, it makes sense that her family
hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs,
but that wasn't the only secret they were hiding.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
My sister's gay Being gay during those times was really
a horrifying thing.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And I remember when she told me she was gay.
I thought this was the greatest thing I ever heard,
and she was like, you can I tell us so
nobody can.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Know about this, Like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay
was just another thing she couldn't talk about. As she's
telling me about her past, it makes more sense why
Jean's welcomed me in. Why she's agreed to talk. The
thing is a total romantic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
One of my favorite stories that I told was the
time I had my first orgasm. I had been married,
I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's the nineteen seventies and Gina is in her twenties,
a single mom with a kid. She had briefly been
married to her high school sweetheart, and now she's working
at this daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona,
and they are a lot alike. They're both putting themselves
through school in the evenings. They both have little girls
that are the same age.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
We formed this friendship with each other, and then one
night we went to see this movie and we're sitting
in the car and she looks at me and says,
you know, I really feel like kissing you.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I said, so kiss That kiss was like fireworks.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I
never had an orgasm.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
After this orgasm, she put on candles and everything, and
she looked at me and.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
She said, you know, Sweedie, you could do this anytime
you want. I mean, the whole idea of that kind
of power, and so I begin to be kind of
a crazy masturbator, you know, I would like go through
my job at the daycare center, and it was lunchtime,
NiFe went back, and so it was this whole description
(15:21):
of just feeling giddy with this kind of new fountain.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
No Mona would move away not long after leaving the city,
but it wasn't long before Jean would fall in love again.
In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit
her even harder. Here's a story she told at the Moth.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
It's assembly day and I am so nervous.
Speaker 9 (15:42):
My class is putting on a play for the entire school,
and I'm walking down the auditorium the center aisle carrying
all these props. And takes my hand to help me
navigate up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his,
and his hand melts into mine. Our fingers linger, never
(16:02):
wanting to let go. And as Miss Hall crosses the
stage to go to the piano and kids are getting
their assembly seats and the ring is beating against the window,
we fall madly in love.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Geane and that teacher I don't want. They get married,
raise their daughter together, and then a son too. They
become grandparents together and then one morning, forty one years later.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Over coffee, said I'm.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Leaving her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing,
But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost
like a house of cards fell down. He's an expert
con man. He swept me off my feet. It was
almost like that love that you know you think you're
never ever going to find again, and then it all
just kind of crash and I had to kind of
weed through the betrayal.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It didn't take much detective work for Gane to realize
he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship, with friends, colleagues,
random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is,
and it's tainted the way she looks at the.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Past because I see a happy family, but I think,
was he involved with this woman then?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Or who is he involved with?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Then? Jeane is done grieving. She no longer wants to
look backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
What is this next journey about for myself? Because I
feel like I'm at the brink of something. I just
don't know what the break gets.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't know what something is The truth is, Jean
does not believe in astrology. She's had opportunities before to
have her chart read, but she's never really seen the point.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
You know. My sister was into astrology, but you know,
we all thought it was bullshit, you know, and I
always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax,
it's more meaningful than this.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But that was then Today, at seventy four, Jean recognizes
how precious her time is over and over. She tells me,
I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in
all the richness of life already.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Joes, you lyin't even down.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And if there's any chance that astrology can unlock that secret,
she's open to it. Oh and there's still the matter
of the escorts. More on that after the break. Chapter three.
(18:35):
Wheels that Work.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
You know, I don't think humans hang on two things
that don't work, Like the wheel is awesome, like we
still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is
out of date, Like, no, it's functional, right. So that's
the same thing with astrology, Like we don't study this
stuff because it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Over the summer, my friends and I started the search
for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard
about using Doctor Kamar, but I was reluctant. Looking back,
it's obvious why Doctor Kamar's predictions had set off a
chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away
from this show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle
(19:20):
Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging,
and the first time I chatted with her, I was
smiling the whole time, like I love the way she
peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how
pervasive astrology is.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology
to get ahead, let me tell you something. They're out there.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I mean, that's what my whole show was supposed to
peek into, but it was actually something more than that.
As my little team of skeptics here talked about the production,
we decided that using Janelle almost seemed faded. Like when
Mary Amitra set out to find an astrologer for the show,
they dependently made lists and somehow not only did they
both find Janelle, but they both had her as their
(20:05):
top choice. So we chalked it up to destiny and
rolled with it. Janelle's real New York too. She's from
Queen's and her parents are immigrants from Panama. Janelle's doesn't
(20:29):
sugarcoat things. So when I asked her about the birthdate
for the show and the show's timing, well let's just
say she was less optimistic than doctor Kamar, who told
me this show was going to be a mega hit.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
So you guys said that it was May sixteenth, nine
thirty nine am in Brooklyn, New York. Correct, Yeah, yeah, right, okay, okay,
So you guys are a torres sun, a cancer rising
moon in Sagittarius. You guys planned this right under an eclipse,
(21:03):
which is really interesting, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy
can be very volatile.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, I guess I've got a temper my expectations. But
even when Janelle's prepping you for a turbulent time ahead,
I like how she's still encouraging.
Speaker 7 (21:21):
You're starting under a lot of retrogrades and that's okay,
but you just have to know that you can have
to be patient use that to your benefit.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Now this isn't aside, but last year I started giving
monsterra plants away to people who have been going through
hard things. It is a super instagrammable plant, but that's
not why I like it. The monster is unusual. If
left in the dark, exhibit something called negative phototropism, where
all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness.
(21:55):
It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the
presence of a larger tree, so the monster trusts that
it can lean into the shadows and pool all of
its energy into climbing that trunk because it believes sunlight
will come. I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder.
And that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty she's
(22:17):
found in reminding people that hope still exists.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life.
And when you look back and say, yeah, there was
that some person that came to me that day and
said something, and that was the thing I needed to
get to the next day, and that next day was miraculous.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have
a good feeling about. Jane is so clearly yearning, and
I wanted to witness what magic might come out when
you put Jeanne and Janelle and all their.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Stars and their stories in a room together. Chapter four.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You don't want to waste a minute. It's months before
I see Gene again. We are sitting in her apartment.
This time it's my producer, Mitra and me, and we've
set up a consult with Janelle. But twenty minutes in,
everything is going wrong. Sound waves are flashing across laptop,
but apparently it hasn't been taping. Worse, the backup recorder
(23:31):
got jammed and then our batteries died. It's like this
taping is jens. Of course, Janelle doesn't miss a beat.
She makes a crack about eclipses and the universe, showing
us just how real astrology is, and she reminds us
that if we've tried this a few days from now,
everything would have gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we
(23:52):
try again.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Okay, so where should we start?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
In my head, I'm screaming escorts. We've got to talk
about s courts. If you listen to the tape from
fifteen minutes ago, it is all static, but what you
would have heard, what I wish we still had was
the discussion and wear it again. Before Jean had even
said the word escort, Janelle basically said, Jeane, your chart
(24:18):
is telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself.
The universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates,
go on hikes, go have sex, go do the things
that feel fun. But I don't have that tape because
I started this show in an eclipse, and somehow it's
easier to tell myself that to make that the excuse
(24:42):
than to stop Gene from taking the conversation in the
direction she needs it to go.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something,
but I don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Huh, I gotcha. Okay, So I actually want to take you
back to your last new moon that you had. So basically,
this is just to show you that there's no such
thing as like linear time in astrology. So when we
are at a new moon phase in our life, it's
when we're starting a brand new chapter. We've ended one chapter. Okay,
So back in twenty eleven, April twenty eleven, you had
(25:17):
a new moon happen in your progressed chart at nineteen
degrees of aris. So if you can think back to
what was happening in your life in twenty eleven, I
can tell you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I know exactly what was happening because that was so
I can't believe you just said that.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
I'm blown away. Really Okay, hold that thought, don't give
don't give it away just yet, because I want us
to kind of flow through it. So back then you
plant it seas right, then you're going to track the moon.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow
of the moon through Jane's sign, and she shows her
how the moon is moved with her over the years.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
So around probably, I would say twenty sixteen or so
is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially
when it came to marriage. Oh yeah, so September of
twenty nineteen maybe would have been a time where things
might have got a little bit tough.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Oh my god, yeap, I have the chills. I do
have the chills.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Showing you how astrology works to show you the timing.
So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right, so
possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations, endings, endings.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete the
rock Star astrologer told me, this concept of Joe TISHMATI
what you're going for in a great reading like that
shared connection between astrologer and the person being read passing
the light of awareness.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed. I have to tell
you because when you, like, say a specific thing like September,
you know, twenty nineteen, September twenty fifth, twenty nineteen looked
me in the face and said bye bye, I'm leaving
you for another woman. And so that's a month, that's
a time. I don't really no one really knows, like, oh,
(27:04):
that happened. But then when you just said it was
like you did not just say that, but yeah, right.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planets, the planet
of death and transformation and saying this is the end.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something
has clicked. In just a few minutes, Gene is transformed
from this person who is I guess, willing to give
astrology a chance, to someone who's sitting on her hands
to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen,
there is an intensity between them. Every month or date
(27:38):
Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories,
and each time Gene is about to let out this
rush of words like just let them spill it from
her mouth. Janelle smiles like a chest Shire cat, and
she tells her to hold it in just a little more.
Janelle is confident there's power and astrology. She's felt it
for decades now, but in this moment, that power is
(28:01):
so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain
and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity.
Speaker 7 (28:10):
But I know, but I have two and a half
years to make use of this energy. I have to
do it otherwise it's not going to come back for
another fourteen years. I don't want to have to waste
that time, right exactly, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I at seventy four, you don't want to waste a minute.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
About the gully Gully just a heart of Buddy the
Getty John head Off, chapter five, A Couch with a View.
My sister's a psychologist, a PhD. And we have this
line we use about Indians. It's okay to be a psychiatrist,
but it's not okay to see a psychiatrist. Years ago,
(28:58):
when my wife and I were looking into international adoption
from India, the forums indicated that if you'd ever seen
a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified from adopting. I'm ashamed to
admit that. For years it kept me from seeing a
grief counselor. I mean, along with all the other stresses
of life. I lost a cousin to a suicide and
(29:19):
a best friend to an overdose, and I struggled. I
was a shell of myself. The truth is, in those years,
I was not a great dad or a great husband,
and I could have used the therapy, but I also
didn't want to limit our options as potential parents anyway.
For Indians, including the Indian government, the stigma is real.
(29:42):
So things like religion and astrology they fill the gap
and it makes sense right. Astrology allows you to put
a symbol on something that's hard to name and to
reframe your problems from a different lens. It's therapy for
people who just don't want to go to therapy. What
happens when those notions are flipped? Like what if your
(30:02):
therapist was secretly powering their sessions, using the stars to
amplify their understanding of you? Because that's what Ava does.
Speaker 10 (30:13):
Oh my god, I feel like I'm a little bashful.
I'm a licensed therapist.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful
trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of
the baggage that astrology carries.
Speaker 10 (30:25):
Do I worry if I bring it up, people don't
take me seriously. Of course, for younger clients, I think
it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah,
my clients who are older, it's a little bit more
of a finesse.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So before she dives in with a new client, she
floats a few questions to see just how open she
can be with them.
Speaker 10 (30:45):
It's something that I kind of test the waters to
see are they into astrology? Is it something they're not
at into right? And if they are, it's wonderful because
we can fold that into our understanding, like holy shit,
like Saturn and Mars are being true as and advice
Saturn that from what you're telling me, that makes a
lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Of course, even when they're not into astrology, AVA still
keeps an eye on their chart.
Speaker 10 (31:08):
I still have their birthdays. I can see where their
planets are. Which isn't to say that that changes how
I show up to them. My number one job is
to be here with the client therapy. Existing in this
world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that
are trying to make it be short and get people
back to work and make people legible in this really
(31:32):
fucked up system, right, So much of that is not
helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think
astrology just it allows me to kind of ground back
into the trust of having this big perspective in this
small perspective. At the same time.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There are so many people who see therapy and astrology
at odds with one another, but Ava, she hopes there's
new ways about thinking about both because both have the
ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what
we go to therapy for. Isn't that what we want
from astrology, to access perspectives big and small, because so
(32:10):
much of what we're looking for is someone to tell
us what really matters, what we can set aside, and
to teach us what to spend our precious time on.
Speaker 10 (32:19):
This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind, Like,
what the heck? That makes no sense to me, And
with astrology it is not at all.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 10 (32:29):
Planets are coming into places and then going back and
you're like, this is so frustrating, and I'm.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Back to where I was, And then it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Moves forward again, Deva. There's something very human about acknowledging
that in the fog of healing, things are often more
complicated than just trying to move forward.
Speaker 10 (32:49):
We are trying to understand things that are leond comprehension
in some ways, right how humbling to know that we
don't always have to I think that astrology and trauma
therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Chapter six, Mike check Jeane and I sat in her
apartment after the reading and we talked for a while.
What's spinning in your head? Like? What are you thinking about?
Speaker 10 (33:32):
First?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I feel I don't know if I could could. I
feel stoned on my mind.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I feel as though I want some acid trip or something.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Coming into this reading, I thought we'd devote a good
bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fond of hiring
an escort, But so much of this, to me felt
like Jane just needed to be seen. What she needed
from the astrologer, and what she actually wanted from the
escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the
(34:02):
outside world to remind her just how much she mattered.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think what was most empowering about this for me
was at seventy four and living alone, you often feel
very invisible, you know you do. And it's like I
say to myself, oh my god, I could die right now.
No one's even gonna know, you know, that kind of feeling.
And what she did by saying, hey, wait, you know
(34:27):
this is what's happening. I mean I could not repeat
now to the moon in the house and the but
there was an overall sense of you are part of
the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear,
and you are on a ride, you know, and you
have been since you were born, and you will continue.
And so by saying you have the power to do that,
(34:50):
it was like I'm not invisible, you know, I'm not
and I and that was that was very big.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm envious of Gene because whatever you think of astrology,
she got to feel seen and then she had the
luxury of time to process it, to decide for herself
what she wanted to take out of it and what
she wants the rest of her life to be. It's
a gift. On May seventh, twenty twenty two, exactly a
(35:20):
month after I got a warning about my father's health
in the form of reading, he passed away. I won't
tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready, but
I will tell you this. That list I made for
my dad, we hardly got through it, and all that
time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through my
(35:43):
clenched fist. Sitting in Jean's room listening to this talk
of moons and whether this is the close of a
chapter or just another middle I am not present. But
before I can slip too far away to adjust my hand,
she moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away
(36:04):
from my face, but that touch, it pulls me back
into the moment, and then it makes me smile, because
whatever else I've been through, I'm so lucky to be
here to get to work on projects. I love to
meet people like Gene. And as much as my days
(36:25):
now will be divided between longing for a past that
I cannot have and divining what the future can be,
I know she's right when she says things, this is.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
The only moment. This is the only moment. I know
one the moment will be greater or less that, It's
just this is the moment.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan
White House.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
President for You, continue.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
To allow us drama need to play a part in
the make up a not at all.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
So did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also,
we get distracted watch on Saturday Morning cartoons, We dig
up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yelson's late
night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in
an old Johnny Carson Cliff. It's eighties week here on
Skyline Drive, so be sure to tune in. Thank you
(37:51):
so much for listening. Skyline Drive is a production of
Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. This show is hosted and written
by me Mongaish articular. But the show it would be
a bad idea sitting in a drawer somewhere if it
were not for all these incredible people. Mary Philip Sandy
is just the best. She's our supervising producer and I
don't know how she pulled us off with everything else
going on. Nietscha Binshahi Senior produced this whole thing and
(38:15):
brought the delightful Jean Lebeck into our world. Mark Lotto
is such a mench and story editor who really made
this whole story incredible. This episode was also produced and
mixed by the wonderful Anna Rubanova. Thank you so much, Anna,
with scoring as always from Botany. Check out a SoundCloud
the insane music in between This courtesy of a Zadi Records,
(38:36):
Ragender Himanshusuri, Monsoon Ciren, and also Peter Matthew Bauer. This
song playing right now is off his beautiful new album Flowers.
If you want to hear all of this music, we
linked to a mixtape in the show notes. Oh my gosh,
the fifties narration so funny, right that was Adam Bozar.
Thank you so much, Adam for doing that Rosenberg section
(38:57):
and making me laugh so hard. Also, the descriptions come
from astrology dot Com. Jeene's story about falling in love
is from the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately.
Additional production and research support from the Wonderful through Chevarrao,
Lizzie Jacobs, who is my wife and my rock, my superstar,
aunt somanaka the womanaka Bukshi, and my cousin Arjinbucchi who
(39:21):
helped me out of a giant pickle. This show is
executive produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Utour
and Katrina Norvel. Also got to thank my partners from Kaleidoscope,
just the best team Oswolish and Kate Osborne, Costas Linos
and this super dynamic viny Shori who made the crazy
Swee Kalajah. My family on Insta ts Vinny My mom
(39:44):
loved it special. Thanks to all the kiddos who bore
with us through this production. All my friends at iHeart,
Shanta and Sara, my family everywhere, my pal Holly Fry
who read this episode's warning. If you haven't listened to
stuff you missed in history class, you're missing out, Or
you can check out her excellent podcast Criminalia go down
her boat immediately. And just one last thank you as
(40:07):
always to my Amma and my dad, Lalitha Enimation Tickelar,
who I thank my lucky stars for Thank you all
for listening. Your friends, it's where you grew up. Oh there,
not your friends, It's where you grew up.
Hey there, podcast listeners, It's Mango here and over the
next few weekends, we are revisiting season one of my
show Skyline Drive, and today we are up to episode two.
So in this episode, I'm going to introduce you to Jeane,
who is one of the coolest people I've ever met,
and I say that as someone who's met a ton
(00:21):
of cool people. Jeane has this fascinating life growing up
in Brooklyn. Her parents were Communists, she gets out of
a bad marriage, and now she's in her seventies and
she has decided to turn to astrology for some help
with romance. She really is so wonderful, and I actually
connected her with an astrologer named Janelle, who spoiler alert,
(00:44):
kind of blew her mind. We also talk in this
episode to an anonymous therapist who secretly uses astrology in
her practice, which is insane to me but also kind
of incredible. I really hope you enjoy it, and I
hope you stay tuned for episode three next Sunday.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Warning. The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian tinder, eclipses,
star powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former former lawyer.
For listeners with Victorian sensibilities. Please keep a fan and
smelling salts nearby.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So, I guess my biggest question is am I ever
going to have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
We're sitting in Jean Lebec's third floor apartment right off
the ninety third street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is
a former teacher, just like my mom, roughly the same age,
seventy four, but Jean's a New York City before. She's
got that city girl edge.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
My name is gean Ane Lebec and I am a storyteller.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The sex question. It's big for Jean because she was
married for forty one years and she expected to stay
married forever. But right before the city went into lockdown,
her marriage dissolved, and it's taken her about three years
to get to this point.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Jesus, I don't want to marry anything. I'm not looking
for that, and I don't want to live with anybody.
I'm not looking for that.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But she is craving something, some form of intimacy.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, and
when I've told her these stories about you know, guys who.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Just really want to sex text to you.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
They don't really want to go further than that, all
the weird men that I have had a date with
just Okay, here's where we're at right now. I think
what you need to do is call of inness court service.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
An.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am
barely awake, haven't even had my cup of coffee, and
I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right, Like, is this
sweet seventy four year old woman really asking permission to
hire somebody?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
You're there and it's a very clear cut relationship, you know,
hire them for four hours.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I don't know if an astrologer can help with that.
I don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked
whether it's the right time to hire an escort. But
we're about to find out. From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast,
I'm Monga's Shatika thear Welcome to Skyline Drive Chapter one,
(04:32):
pound Cake and Chemo. So let's talk a second about
Jean's question and questions like these.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
Well, I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Why do scorpios get such a bad wrap?
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have
in my life?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Is it insane to consider trying to be a stand
up comedian as a.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Man who is rapidly balding.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Will any of my hair e grow back? That's what
the show was supposed to be, finding people with questions
I'd never think to ask, pairing them with an astrologer,
then generally having a good time. And I was going
to take this anthropological view of it all like stand back,
watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. But just
(05:20):
as our production was about to get off the ground,
I travel to Queen's to get a reading from a
random astrologer. And that astrologer he warned me that my
dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. Within twenty minutes,
my dad had emailed me that a cancer had spread
through his liver. So now a few days later, I'm
(05:40):
in Kanye's, Georgia. Kanye's is mostly famous for being a
speed trap on the road between Atlanta and Athens, and
my parents settled here because my dad took a job
down the road a few years back. But there's a
little else that would have drawn them here, Like there
(06:02):
are strip malls and waffle houses, banks, targets, and then
these quiet, winding roads that veer off it with names
like Christian Circle. The doctor's office is tucked away on
one of these winding roads, and we're waiting for the
doctor in a little exam room. It's actually the way
my dad wants it. All of us here, my mom, sister, me,
(06:24):
and I'm a little surprised when the doctor walks in
and he's Indian.
Speaker 7 (06:28):
So the pathology report still says preliminary.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I didn't know that they had more of us out
in conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really
know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for
us too, But when he starts, it's clear the news
isn't good.
Speaker 8 (06:48):
Show that then Dialima was started by small tumors, numerous tumors, Bawns.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
It turns out it's an aggressive small self cancer, going
to need an aggressive response.
Speaker 8 (07:01):
The painting is okay, but your disease is behaving way too.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Now it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I've turned on my voice recorder, not for podcasting, but
because I'm feeling lightheaded, uneasy about how much of this
information I will retain, and so far it sounds like
the chemo can only do so much.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Why did I say it's not that great news?
Speaker 8 (07:24):
Because small si lung cancer is notorious not.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
To stay in control with chemotherapy.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
It goes away, but it comes right back.
Speaker 8 (07:32):
So not a good diagnosis at all, but very treatable
in its current situation.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
This whole thing is basically cancer. Whack them all. You
can bat the cancer back, cheer a little, and then
start again until time runs out. The only time I
smile is when my dad asks timidly, oh, yes.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I've heard that, medical Mario and I.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Can help with And I remember my friend Howard when
his dad got cancer. Howard got him a pound cake
loaded with THHC and they spent the night laughing as
his dad shared memories along with these ridiculous life goals,
like how his one regret as a young man in
China was that he'd never taken a shit on the
(08:18):
doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, I daydreamed a little
about sourcing some edibles and playing my dad's favorite records
as we chat through the night before I hear this.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
You really don't want Eellly parents to be dealing with
metastatic cancer.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Three hundred miles away. It's just not.
Speaker 8 (08:39):
Invariably, no matter how smold the treatment goes as lonely marts.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four
more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes.
It's something to hope for, but it's more likely we'll
get three to four months. The thing is there's no
time to waste. A nurse wheels my dad to a
different wing to begin the chemo immediately. My mom is
trying to be brave, but she's still dazed. I tug
(09:10):
at her arm and hold it as we walk to
the car. Everything is daunting, but it also feels manageable.
So instead of worrying, I focus on our wish list.
My dad still speaks some Portuguese from his childhood in Goa,
and I know he wants to see Lisbon. I know
he wants to see his grandkids more. He wants to
(09:31):
see my sister get married. So I'm thinking, what can
I do? What money do we need? How can I
move my schedule around? Four months is not a lot
of time, but I'm going to make it feel like enough.
(10:02):
Chapter two, Secrets and Lies.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I lived in a family with a lot of secrets.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean and I have
a feeling it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful,
unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry
and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos,
there's a living room filled with vintage furniture stuff you'd
cover it from your favorite thrift store. Jeane tells me
(10:32):
to sit anywhere, make myself comfortable, and so I do,
first on this bright, beautiful sofa, and then on an
ottoman just a little closer, doer.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I grew up right here in Brooklyn, matt and bay Ridge,
Wet and Crown Hearts, which is now a groovy, groovy.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Place to live.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But during those days it was a hard working Irish Catholic.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Neighborhood, and we were the only Jewish families.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Kids playing marbles by nickel con, hanging out on studs,
running around the neighborhood until the lamp posts flicker and
you just know it's time to raise home. It all
sounds so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in
something darker because of her parents' political leanings.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
We lived this kind of life of secrets and lives.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't
tell anybody they knew Julison Ethel Rosenburg.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
It runs for me, oh refresher on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Julius Rosenberg, a Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg A Libra met
and fell in love at the Young Communist League.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
When Torus and Libra got together in a love affair,
it can be the unification of two halves of a whole.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Julius had a steady job working for the Army Signal
Corps as an engineer, but he was fired for being a.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Socialist Communism what is it?
Speaker 8 (12:01):
Who are the apostles of a system that attempts to destroy.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
The American way of life?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
In the nineteen forties and fifties, a communist panic swept
across America, set off by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy.
McCarthy was known for his wild and sensational attacks.
Speaker 8 (12:20):
The Scorpio zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings
and is unafraid of either. They also travel in a
world that is black and white and has little use
for gray.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders
were terrified for their lives and careers In nineteen fifty,
the couple was put on trial for passing atomic secrets
to the Soviets. The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still
got the electric chair. The man who prosecuted them, a
twenty three year old pisces named Roy Kohane. One witness
(12:56):
from the trial, tried to take back his testimony. He
said the reason he lied on the stand was because
con had threatened to lock up his wife and make
life hell for his family.
Speaker 8 (13:06):
Many people associate pisces with dreams and secrets as a
mutable sign ICs holds, adaptive, fluid, and sheep shifting qualities.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Anyway, back to Gene, it makes sense that her family
hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs,
but that wasn't the only secret they were hiding.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
My sister's gay Being gay during those times was really
a horrifying thing.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And I remember when she told me she was gay.
I thought this was the greatest thing I ever heard,
and she was like, you can I tell us so
nobody can.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Know about this, Like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay
was just another thing she couldn't talk about. As she's
telling me about her past, it makes more sense why
Jean's welcomed me in. Why she's agreed to talk. The
thing is a total romantic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
One of my favorite stories that I told was the
time I had my first orgasm. I had been married,
I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's the nineteen seventies and Gina is in her twenties,
a single mom with a kid. She had briefly been
married to her high school sweetheart, and now she's working
at this daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona,
and they are a lot alike. They're both putting themselves
through school in the evenings. They both have little girls
that are the same age.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
We formed this friendship with each other, and then one
night we went to see this movie and we're sitting
in the car and she looks at me and says,
you know, I really feel like kissing you.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I said, so kiss That kiss was like fireworks.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I
never had an orgasm.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
After this orgasm, she put on candles and everything, and
she looked at me and.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
She said, you know, Sweedie, you could do this anytime
you want. I mean, the whole idea of that kind
of power, and so I begin to be kind of
a crazy masturbator, you know, I would like go through
my job at the daycare center, and it was lunchtime,
NiFe went back, and so it was this whole description
(15:21):
of just feeling giddy with this kind of new fountain.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
No Mona would move away not long after leaving the city,
but it wasn't long before Jean would fall in love again.
In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit
her even harder. Here's a story she told at the Moth.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
It's assembly day and I am so nervous.
Speaker 9 (15:42):
My class is putting on a play for the entire school,
and I'm walking down the auditorium the center aisle carrying
all these props. And takes my hand to help me
navigate up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his,
and his hand melts into mine. Our fingers linger, never
(16:02):
wanting to let go. And as Miss Hall crosses the
stage to go to the piano and kids are getting
their assembly seats and the ring is beating against the window,
we fall madly in love.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Geane and that teacher I don't want. They get married,
raise their daughter together, and then a son too. They
become grandparents together and then one morning, forty one years later.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Over coffee, said I'm.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Leaving her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing,
But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost
like a house of cards fell down. He's an expert
con man. He swept me off my feet. It was
almost like that love that you know you think you're
never ever going to find again, and then it all
just kind of crash and I had to kind of
weed through the betrayal.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It didn't take much detective work for Gane to realize
he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship, with friends, colleagues,
random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is,
and it's tainted the way she looks at the.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Past because I see a happy family, but I think,
was he involved with this woman then?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Or who is he involved with?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Then? Jeane is done grieving. She no longer wants to
look backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
What is this next journey about for myself? Because I
feel like I'm at the brink of something. I just
don't know what the break gets.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't know what something is The truth is, Jean
does not believe in astrology. She's had opportunities before to
have her chart read, but she's never really seen the point.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
You know. My sister was into astrology, but you know,
we all thought it was bullshit, you know, and I
always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax,
it's more meaningful than this.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But that was then Today, at seventy four, Jean recognizes
how precious her time is over and over. She tells me,
I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in
all the richness of life already.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Joes, you lyin't even down.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And if there's any chance that astrology can unlock that secret,
she's open to it. Oh and there's still the matter
of the escorts. More on that after the break. Chapter three.
(18:35):
Wheels that Work.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
You know, I don't think humans hang on two things
that don't work, Like the wheel is awesome, like we
still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is
out of date, Like, no, it's functional, right. So that's
the same thing with astrology, Like we don't study this
stuff because it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Over the summer, my friends and I started the search
for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard
about using Doctor Kamar, but I was reluctant. Looking back,
it's obvious why Doctor Kamar's predictions had set off a
chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away
from this show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle
(19:20):
Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging,
and the first time I chatted with her, I was
smiling the whole time, like I love the way she
peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how
pervasive astrology is.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology
to get ahead, let me tell you something. They're out there.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I mean, that's what my whole show was supposed to
peek into, but it was actually something more than that.
As my little team of skeptics here talked about the production,
we decided that using Janelle almost seemed faded. Like when
Mary Amitra set out to find an astrologer for the show,
they dependently made lists and somehow not only did they
both find Janelle, but they both had her as their
(20:05):
top choice. So we chalked it up to destiny and
rolled with it. Janelle's real New York too. She's from
Queen's and her parents are immigrants from Panama. Janelle's doesn't
(20:29):
sugarcoat things. So when I asked her about the birthdate
for the show and the show's timing, well let's just
say she was less optimistic than doctor Kamar, who told
me this show was going to be a mega hit.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
So you guys said that it was May sixteenth, nine
thirty nine am in Brooklyn, New York. Correct, Yeah, yeah, right, okay, okay,
So you guys are a torres sun, a cancer rising
moon in Sagittarius. You guys planned this right under an eclipse,
(21:03):
which is really interesting, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy
can be very volatile.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, I guess I've got a temper my expectations. But
even when Janelle's prepping you for a turbulent time ahead,
I like how she's still encouraging.
Speaker 7 (21:21):
You're starting under a lot of retrogrades and that's okay,
but you just have to know that you can have
to be patient use that to your benefit.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Now this isn't aside, but last year I started giving
monsterra plants away to people who have been going through
hard things. It is a super instagrammable plant, but that's
not why I like it. The monster is unusual. If
left in the dark, exhibit something called negative phototropism, where
all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness.
(21:55):
It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the
presence of a larger tree, so the monster trusts that
it can lean into the shadows and pool all of
its energy into climbing that trunk because it believes sunlight
will come. I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder.
And that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty she's
(22:17):
found in reminding people that hope still exists.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life.
And when you look back and say, yeah, there was
that some person that came to me that day and
said something, and that was the thing I needed to
get to the next day, and that next day was miraculous.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have
a good feeling about. Jane is so clearly yearning, and
I wanted to witness what magic might come out when
you put Jeanne and Janelle and all their.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Stars and their stories in a room together. Chapter four.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You don't want to waste a minute. It's months before
I see Gene again. We are sitting in her apartment.
This time it's my producer, Mitra and me, and we've
set up a consult with Janelle. But twenty minutes in,
everything is going wrong. Sound waves are flashing across laptop,
but apparently it hasn't been taping. Worse, the backup recorder
(23:31):
got jammed and then our batteries died. It's like this
taping is jens. Of course, Janelle doesn't miss a beat.
She makes a crack about eclipses and the universe, showing
us just how real astrology is, and she reminds us
that if we've tried this a few days from now,
everything would have gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we
(23:52):
try again.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Okay, so where should we start?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
In my head, I'm screaming escorts. We've got to talk
about s courts. If you listen to the tape from
fifteen minutes ago, it is all static, but what you
would have heard, what I wish we still had was
the discussion and wear it again. Before Jean had even
said the word escort, Janelle basically said, Jeane, your chart
(24:18):
is telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself.
The universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates,
go on hikes, go have sex, go do the things
that feel fun. But I don't have that tape because
I started this show in an eclipse, and somehow it's
easier to tell myself that to make that the excuse
(24:42):
than to stop Gene from taking the conversation in the
direction she needs it to go.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something,
but I don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Huh, I gotcha. Okay, So I actually want to take you
back to your last new moon that you had. So basically,
this is just to show you that there's no such
thing as like linear time in astrology. So when we
are at a new moon phase in our life, it's
when we're starting a brand new chapter. We've ended one chapter. Okay,
So back in twenty eleven, April twenty eleven, you had
(25:17):
a new moon happen in your progressed chart at nineteen
degrees of aris. So if you can think back to
what was happening in your life in twenty eleven, I
can tell you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I know exactly what was happening because that was so
I can't believe you just said that.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
I'm blown away. Really Okay, hold that thought, don't give
don't give it away just yet, because I want us
to kind of flow through it. So back then you
plant it seas right, then you're going to track the moon.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow
of the moon through Jane's sign, and she shows her
how the moon is moved with her over the years.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
So around probably, I would say twenty sixteen or so
is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially
when it came to marriage. Oh yeah, so September of
twenty nineteen maybe would have been a time where things
might have got a little bit tough.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Oh my god, yeap, I have the chills. I do
have the chills.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Showing you how astrology works to show you the timing.
So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right, so
possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations, endings, endings.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete the
rock Star astrologer told me, this concept of Joe TISHMATI
what you're going for in a great reading like that
shared connection between astrologer and the person being read passing
the light of awareness.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed. I have to tell
you because when you, like, say a specific thing like September,
you know, twenty nineteen, September twenty fifth, twenty nineteen looked
me in the face and said bye bye, I'm leaving
you for another woman. And so that's a month, that's
a time. I don't really no one really knows, like, oh,
(27:04):
that happened. But then when you just said it was
like you did not just say that, but yeah, right.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planets, the planet
of death and transformation and saying this is the end.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something
has clicked. In just a few minutes, Gene is transformed
from this person who is I guess, willing to give
astrology a chance, to someone who's sitting on her hands
to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen,
there is an intensity between them. Every month or date
(27:38):
Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories,
and each time Gene is about to let out this
rush of words like just let them spill it from
her mouth. Janelle smiles like a chest Shire cat, and
she tells her to hold it in just a little more.
Janelle is confident there's power and astrology. She's felt it
for decades now, but in this moment, that power is
(28:01):
so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain
and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity.
Speaker 7 (28:10):
But I know, but I have two and a half
years to make use of this energy. I have to
do it otherwise it's not going to come back for
another fourteen years. I don't want to have to waste
that time, right exactly, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I at seventy four, you don't want to waste a minute.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
About the gully Gully just a heart of Buddy the
Getty John head Off, chapter five, A Couch with a View.
My sister's a psychologist, a PhD. And we have this
line we use about Indians. It's okay to be a psychiatrist,
but it's not okay to see a psychiatrist. Years ago,
(28:58):
when my wife and I were looking into international adoption
from India, the forums indicated that if you'd ever seen
a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified from adopting. I'm ashamed to
admit that. For years it kept me from seeing a
grief counselor. I mean, along with all the other stresses
of life. I lost a cousin to a suicide and
(29:19):
a best friend to an overdose, and I struggled. I
was a shell of myself. The truth is, in those years,
I was not a great dad or a great husband,
and I could have used the therapy, but I also
didn't want to limit our options as potential parents anyway.
For Indians, including the Indian government, the stigma is real.
(29:42):
So things like religion and astrology they fill the gap
and it makes sense right. Astrology allows you to put
a symbol on something that's hard to name and to
reframe your problems from a different lens. It's therapy for
people who just don't want to go to therapy. What
happens when those notions are flipped? Like what if your
(30:02):
therapist was secretly powering their sessions, using the stars to
amplify their understanding of you? Because that's what Ava does.
Speaker 10 (30:13):
Oh my god, I feel like I'm a little bashful.
I'm a licensed therapist.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful
trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of
the baggage that astrology carries.
Speaker 10 (30:25):
Do I worry if I bring it up, people don't
take me seriously. Of course, for younger clients, I think
it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah,
my clients who are older, it's a little bit more
of a finesse.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So before she dives in with a new client, she
floats a few questions to see just how open she
can be with them.
Speaker 10 (30:45):
It's something that I kind of test the waters to
see are they into astrology? Is it something they're not
at into right? And if they are, it's wonderful because
we can fold that into our understanding, like holy shit,
like Saturn and Mars are being true as and advice
Saturn that from what you're telling me, that makes a
lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Of course, even when they're not into astrology, AVA still
keeps an eye on their chart.
Speaker 10 (31:08):
I still have their birthdays. I can see where their
planets are. Which isn't to say that that changes how
I show up to them. My number one job is
to be here with the client therapy. Existing in this
world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that
are trying to make it be short and get people
back to work and make people legible in this really
(31:32):
fucked up system, right, So much of that is not
helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think
astrology just it allows me to kind of ground back
into the trust of having this big perspective in this
small perspective. At the same time.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There are so many people who see therapy and astrology
at odds with one another, but Ava, she hopes there's
new ways about thinking about both because both have the
ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what
we go to therapy for. Isn't that what we want
from astrology, to access perspectives big and small, because so
(32:10):
much of what we're looking for is someone to tell
us what really matters, what we can set aside, and
to teach us what to spend our precious time on.
Speaker 10 (32:19):
This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind, Like,
what the heck? That makes no sense to me, And
with astrology it is not at all.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 10 (32:29):
Planets are coming into places and then going back and
you're like, this is so frustrating, and I'm.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
Back to where I was, And then it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Moves forward again, Deva. There's something very human about acknowledging
that in the fog of healing, things are often more
complicated than just trying to move forward.
Speaker 10 (32:49):
We are trying to understand things that are leond comprehension
in some ways, right how humbling to know that we
don't always have to I think that astrology and trauma
therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Chapter six, Mike check Jeane and I sat in her
apartment after the reading and we talked for a while.
What's spinning in your head? Like? What are you thinking about?
Speaker 10 (33:32):
First?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I feel I don't know if I could could. I
feel stoned on my mind.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I feel as though I want some acid trip or something.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Coming into this reading, I thought we'd devote a good
bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fond of hiring
an escort, But so much of this, to me felt
like Jane just needed to be seen. What she needed
from the astrologer, and what she actually wanted from the
escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the
(34:02):
outside world to remind her just how much she mattered.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think what was most empowering about this for me
was at seventy four and living alone, you often feel
very invisible, you know you do. And it's like I
say to myself, oh my god, I could die right now.
No one's even gonna know, you know, that kind of feeling.
And what she did by saying, hey, wait, you know
(34:27):
this is what's happening. I mean I could not repeat
now to the moon in the house and the but
there was an overall sense of you are part of
the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear,
and you are on a ride, you know, and you
have been since you were born, and you will continue.
And so by saying you have the power to do that,
(34:50):
it was like I'm not invisible, you know, I'm not
and I and that was that was very big.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I'm envious of Gene because whatever you think of astrology,
she got to feel seen and then she had the
luxury of time to process it, to decide for herself
what she wanted to take out of it and what
she wants the rest of her life to be. It's
a gift. On May seventh, twenty twenty two, exactly a
(35:20):
month after I got a warning about my father's health
in the form of reading, he passed away. I won't
tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready, but
I will tell you this. That list I made for
my dad, we hardly got through it, and all that
time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through my
(35:43):
clenched fist. Sitting in Jean's room listening to this talk
of moons and whether this is the close of a
chapter or just another middle I am not present. But
before I can slip too far away to adjust my hand,
she moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away
(36:04):
from my face, but that touch, it pulls me back
into the moment, and then it makes me smile, because
whatever else I've been through, I'm so lucky to be
here to get to work on projects. I love to
meet people like Gene. And as much as my days
(36:25):
now will be divided between longing for a past that
I cannot have and divining what the future can be,
I know she's right when she says things, this is.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
The only moment. This is the only moment. I know
one the moment will be greater or less that, It's
just this is the moment.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan
White House.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
President for You, continue.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
To allow us drama need to play a part in
the make up a not at all.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
So did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also,
we get distracted watch on Saturday Morning cartoons, We dig
up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yelson's late
night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in
an old Johnny Carson Cliff. It's eighties week here on
Skyline Drive, so be sure to tune in. Thank you
(37:51):
so much for listening. Skyline Drive is a production of
Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. This show is hosted and written
by me Mongaish articular. But the show it would be
a bad idea sitting in a drawer somewhere if it
were not for all these incredible people. Mary Philip Sandy
is just the best. She's our supervising producer and I
don't know how she pulled us off with everything else
going on. Nietscha Binshahi Senior produced this whole thing and
(38:15):
brought the delightful Jean Lebeck into our world. Mark Lotto
is such a mench and story editor who really made
this whole story incredible. This episode was also produced and
mixed by the wonderful Anna Rubanova. Thank you so much, Anna,
with scoring as always from Botany. Check out a SoundCloud
the insane music in between This courtesy of a Zadi Records,
(38:36):
Ragender Himanshusuri, Monsoon Ciren, and also Peter Matthew Bauer. This
song playing right now is off his beautiful new album Flowers.
If you want to hear all of this music, we
linked to a mixtape in the show notes. Oh my gosh,
the fifties narration so funny, right that was Adam Bozar.
Thank you so much, Adam for doing that Rosenberg section
(38:57):
and making me laugh so hard. Also, the descriptions come
from astrology dot Com. Jeene's story about falling in love
is from the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately.
Additional production and research support from the Wonderful through Chevarrao,
Lizzie Jacobs, who is my wife and my rock, my superstar,
aunt somanaka the womanaka Bukshi, and my cousin Arjinbucchi who
(39:21):
helped me out of a giant pickle. This show is
executive produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Utour
and Katrina Norvel. Also got to thank my partners from Kaleidoscope,
just the best team Oswolish and Kate Osborne, Costas Linos
and this super dynamic viny Shori who made the crazy
Swee Kalajah. My family on Insta ts Vinny My mom
(39:44):
loved it special. Thanks to all the kiddos who bore
with us through this production. All my friends at iHeart,
Shanta and Sara, my family everywhere, my pal Holly Fry
who read this episode's warning. If you haven't listened to
stuff you missed in history class, you're missing out, Or
you can check out her excellent podcast Criminalia go down
her boat immediately. And just one last thank you as
(40:07):
always to my Amma and my dad, Lalitha Enimation Tickelar,
who I thank my lucky stars for Thank you all
for listening. Your friends, it's where you grew up. Oh there,
not your friends, It's where you grew up.
Part-Time Genius News
Hosts And Creators
Will Pearson
Mangesh Hattikudur
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