April 26, 2018 • 34 mins
On their 2017 sixth album L.A. Divine, Cold War Kids pay tribute to Los Angeles and all its strange glory. "In many ways L.A. is the least divine city, the most hedonistic and irreverent and disconnected from history," says Cold War Kids' singer/guitarist/pianist Nathan Willett. "L.A.'s so massive, I feel like I'm always finding something new in it," says bassist Matt Maust. "It's an incredibly weird place, and I'm happy to have made a record that totally honors that weirdness." In this interview taken from the GRAMMY Museum archive, the band sits down for an intimate discussion on the making of the album and the impact and their endless fascination with their adopted hometown.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the unique opportunity to speak to
artists from across the musical spectrum about their career, their inspirations,
and their creative process with Required Listening. I'm thrilled that
I can bring these interviews to you. On today's episode,
(00:25):
my conversation with Nathan Willett and Matt Moss from Cold
War Kids. Cold War Kids released their debut album, Robbers
and Cowards in two thousand and six. They were immediately
recognized for their lyrical tales of yesteryear and their blues
rock approach, but throughout the course of their years together
as a band, they've been really unafraid to make lyrical
(00:47):
and sonic changes to what they do. We got together
after they released their sixth album, entitled l A Divine,
and the album is very much about their hometown, Los Angeles.
Nathan mentioned that he's always looking to balance the personal
with the fictional element and the inspiration he found in
the gritty Los Angeles writer Jon Fonte. He also gives
(01:09):
the audience a lot of credit recognizing that people can
tell when a song is overthought. So let's go to
the Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with
Nathan Willett and Matt Most of Cold War Kids, our
guests this Evening burst onto the music scene in two
thousand six with their stunning debut Robbers and Cowards. They're
(01:32):
here tonight celebrating the very recent release of their sixth
full length Good to Know studio album entitled l A
Divine from the Cold War Kids. Give it up for
Nathan Willett and Matt Most. Thank you, Nat Brother, Thanks Matt,
(01:55):
got a mike right there. Hello, Hello, how are you
guys doing doing good? Yeah? I haven't talked from my
pedal board in this manner before. It's like two different
worlds to be Annoyer. You're like looking at that. You
don't have to worry about that for for for the talking,
you know, unless unless we need to process your voice
(02:17):
in some way. Okay, Um, thank you both for taking
the time and bringing the band down. So I want
to start with the new record and then you know,
we can kind of wind things back as we go.
But I was recently interviewing UM an artist here who
said to me that every album that he makes is
(02:38):
a reaction to the last album he made. And and
I'm wondering, so tell me, tell me how l a
Divine may or may not be a reaction to Hold
My Home. Yeah, that's a good it's a good one.
It's a big, big, big idea. Um. I mean there's
only had big ideas here at the Grammy Museum. There's
(03:00):
only let's see, there's something about making an album that
you're I think there's been a in my mind from
the first record and how you know, every band has
a similar story of writing songs and and touring them
and then going in to record them in in a
way that is not every band, but are you know
a lot of bands that that story of like where
(03:21):
you go in and you record, it's very organic and
you you work with what you've got and and it
it feels like just a flow of like, uh, it's
very natural. And I think that was, you know, our
the way that we experienced it. We made the first
record and made like maybe ten days or something, and um,
and it just was songs that were so familiar with
and that we played so many times. And that's how
(03:42):
it goes in the way that it sounded and what
we wanted to do with it and UM and so
you know, and in all the paths that you take
after that. In a way, I felt like for this record,
Eli Divine, for the sixth record, like there's something about
UM taking everywhere we had been sonically and songwriting and
every just kind of really just kind of trying to
(04:04):
do the best version of everything that we have done,
which is That's the way that I kind of thought
about it going into it was there's been a real
consistency in the origin of the Cold wor Kids sound
that I wanted to really kind of like have this
sixth record kind of just like do the best version
of that, but have the songs be the front and center.
(04:26):
So it's almost a reaction about all five records. Yeah,
thank you must Yes, Yes, so I guess you interpret. Yes,
it's it's our greatest hits. That is new songs of
gret because you know, one of the things that you
guys have been relatively fearless about, I think is kind
(04:49):
of changing up your approach album by album, changing the sound,
maybe changing the approach to songwriting. You know, it's so weird,
Like I feel like we've really tive to like a
true left field turn, which would be something like making
a gospel reggae record or something you know, Vandross record.
(05:11):
Oh man, that'd be so fun. That's a great idea, um.
But something that is like deeply conceptual and out of character.
I always think like that would be something that I
could see people being. You know, if if I love
this record and then you do that and now I'm
mad at you, I could see that. But for like,
the kind of changes that I feel like are have
(05:32):
not been like enormous risks, enormous like shifts in style
and tone. But it is interesting hearing people's reaction that
is almost that severe you know that you almost went
like that far and you're like, whoa, we didn't even
go that far. So that that is has been interesting
to me and I and I guess I sometimes wonder
(05:52):
was it was it different at any point? Like was
it different in the seventies when like a band would
be like, all right, now we are going to do
the weirdest possible thing. It might be a little safer now,
but there's also a great thing I think again, like
for this record, wanting to be like like I don't
totally want to discover something totally new, like I want
to write the best songs within the kind of tools
(06:15):
that we've had all I'm wondering if you guys you know,
because the last record had a song on it on
the first which number one on alternative charts. People responded
very positively and strongly. Apparently it holds the record for
second longest running alternative number one in the charts history.
(06:42):
But it was called First. I knew that it doesn't
make sense ase it's called first, and you thought, you know, yes,
the second. Yeah, you guys, you know somehow managed to
title the song first, which was you know, the first
second suppression to say the least. But that comes. It
strikes me that that kind of success and attention comes
(07:02):
with a little bit of its own pressure in terms
of as you go in to make the next record,
are you thinking about that? Um? Well, with this one,
I guess, like almost the way that everything has worked
for this band, the way that's always been for us,
we've had this like, I mean, it really has in
many ways been like a kind of a fairy tale
(07:23):
experience where like even from the first record and how
totally oblivious and naive we were to anything in music
industry or labels or anything. And we just got to
We got to go on tour for fun and and
book odd shows and have no idea what we're doing
and and have that experience for a couple of years
before it got weird or bad, and and and in
(07:44):
a time when it was and then it was like
it had a very cliche fairy tale thing where like
at south By Southwest we found our our booking agent
and our lawyer, like in our label, and and things
have gone. I always think about how it's like of
people that give their life to music. I feel that
(08:04):
it was they're they're not sure whether it was a
good deal or not. Like we we have been incredibly lucky.
And um so yeah, I guess uh, I don't know
why I kind of went that direction, But what was
the original question? Honestly you lost me. Yeah, but but
it's good. It's good. So so let me let me
ask you. Let me ask you this. You are You
(08:25):
are very much into kind of the lyrically, the literary songs.
You know lyrics, and you have a you know, a
love of putting you know, the right words together with
the music and I'm wondering if if there is a
thematic thread to l a divine what's what's the story
(08:45):
you're looking to tell? Ah, the story I'm we're gonna tell.
I guess that that balance between there being like a
very personal element to the narrative and there being a
fictional one that is, you know, me and not me.
And I guess that's always been kind of the goal.
And one one thing that my mind goes to is
(09:08):
the like the writer Jon Fonte and his book like
A Yeah, Like that to me is like, what is
it about that book that so inspires you? Because it's
a it's a for those of you who don't know
Jon Fonte, great gritty author, wrote this book about his
experience here in Los Angeles, and it's it's rough. Yeah.
(09:30):
I think that he has a kind of a sweetness
in in in roughness and just the highs and lows,
the emotional roller coaster of his life, his experience, and
and he'll go like he could get a hundred dollars
and and be the happiest person in the world and
spend it all on the dumbest things and be the
sadas personal just in one page and like and and
(09:51):
there's a lot of religion in it. There's a lot
of religious guilt in it, there's a lot of the
religious inspiration in it. And then there's just, uh, just
his outlook on life is so um, it's not one thing.
It's all over the place and polar and but he
has these huge dreams and then also can fall so
(10:12):
hard into depression. And I think that because it's almost like,
I mean almost like a hundred years ago that he
was writing this. There's something about the purity of that
time that I love so much that I guess found
its way here in a way that I relate to
a long um. You've also talked about, you know, kind
of the thematic um element running through the record about
(10:33):
surrendering to feeling. Is that something that's been a challenge
for you previously in terms of kind of surrendering to
a sense of feeling that that maybe you didn't want
people to hear or know about you. Are you saying
you get like from the lyrics, you're you're, you're, you're
(10:53):
deciphering this a little bit Okay, cool, No, that's great. Um.
I I mean we're still the records so new to her.
I'm still kind of like, I don't know, I always
like to sort of not like leave it to people's interpretations,
not totally noticed. But yeah, I personally always sort of
struggle to get out of my head, you know, and
(11:14):
just to write something that's more than working my way
out of my own rambling. Um takes a lot of work.
And uh so, yeah, surrendering to feeling. I think that's
one thing that's going on. They're learning to um. I
think it's you know, that's something that I definitely wrestle
with and feel a lot. Is that thing of like
(11:36):
wanting to be of very transparent on the surface giving
person but knowing like you know a lot of ways
that's not who I am, but that's who I want
to be. How how is the songwriting evolved over time?
Because you know, when you guys started you were all
(11:57):
pretty young, How is it evolved to where you were now?
And has it changed another? Weirdly Like, that's one of
those hard ones for me, But but I think in
a weird way, the song first taught me a lot
about what works and how to not overthink certain things,
(12:19):
and um, there's something about kind of the looseness of
that song and how like if someone was to say,
what is that song about or what does it mean
or what is Um I would be like, it's so
scattered and and and I'm really in a lot of
ways surprised that people related to it in the way
that they did, because it's a very stream of consciousness
(12:39):
kind of style and not like there's narrative elements to it.
But it's very like it was because of the nature
of like we were we were done doing this record,
kind of had this song that I wanted to finish
very quickly and I didn't have time to overthink it.
And it was the way that I went in and
sort of finished writing it quickly, and um, that kind
of taught me about putting it all out there and
(13:02):
not being able to go back on it. And I
think there's something very important about that. But at the
same time, that's not like the recipe for how to
always write songs. Yeah, for this record, I actually most
has a great house in Silver Lake that is like
a little weird cabin that is uh like a like
(13:23):
a kind of like a retreat almost. Yeah, and uh
and there's there's a lot of days that um, so
as as we were kind of enjoying the success of
first and this thing happening that in many ways it's
so bizarre. But when you've been a band for ten
(13:43):
plus years and you see an audience that is like
you start to realize, like, oh, these people don't know
first record songs at all. They know new record songs,
and it's like it's really a trip. It's a crazy
thing to see. And so I wanted to make this
record in a way that was like before anybody was asking,
before anybody was looking, like, let's get this thing done,
(14:04):
because I know what it needs to be, you know.
And that was a lot of the like just the
feeling I had, which is a great feeling knowing like
I'm not like gonna search a lot. I know what
this needs to be. There's um. I had the feeling
of like it's all been leading up to this, you know.
And like, so I went to his house a lot
of days and just he has a lot of art
books on the wall and h great couch I be
(14:28):
home in the daytime. It's I always felt bad, Moss,
is it okay? If I were over, I don't want
to be in my studio. Yeah, So I would just
I would go there and write. And that was great,
and uh, I could. I could spend ten hours doing that.
And I do think it's the most un rock and
(14:48):
roll boring totally, like strangest part about record making where
I think the idea of sitting there writing and rewriting
and being and now I gotta go get some coffee.
I gotta I go, I get it. This is you know,
it's just it's painstaking. That part of it's very um
it kind of is punishing, and and it starting over
(15:08):
on songs and going that way, um, especially when it's
not like, uh, you know, five verse ten minutes song
like it's every word is very important, and I like
I wanted to treat it that way of just like
giving giving everything to it. And and I'm really glad
how it turned out. Do you, I mean, do you
prefer to work fast? Do you find that by not
(15:33):
laboring over things it's actually better. It's all about like
kind of the time in between where like you can
be so prepared going into it sometimes if everything is
sort of set up in a way by everything like
like the band is around and and able to jump
in and and the producers there, and it's like it's
(15:54):
all about creating that environment that can potentially allow things
to happen very quickly. That's truly where I feel like
creating that environment for me took the last ten years
to to totally allow for like a song to come
very quickly and for it to be done and well
and even forget about it and never go through the
(16:14):
process of loving it and then hating it and then
loving it again and and beating it up and all
that stuff. It's like, and that's why this record was
totally different, Like these songs feel so new to me
and I never you know, and I never hated them. Um.
I mean, we've had, you know, any number of producers
here over time who talked about working with artists and
(16:35):
one of the things that they try to prevent is
laboring over something such that you get to hate it
after what I mean, that's that does not seem to
be conducive to a quality creative process. Yeah, it is.
It's a strange thing. It's one of those things that
I do think you have to learn for yourself though
weirdly because I understand why, like a producer and he
(16:57):
would want to give you the space too, like you
have to figure it out your way, and some people
that is their way to spend forever. But songs are
you know, magical and strange in that way that you
can spend days and days and months on. I also
think the world like where the music industry has changed
so much in the way that like making an A
(17:19):
C d C record and spending three weeks on the
snare sounded like. I think that's it's not like that's gone.
It's about there's like a heart that you know. It's
the emotion of a song is so much more immediate
and something that's labored over is so obvious now to
people hear this and like this is overthought, And I
think that's a big part of the reason that like
(17:41):
that people that were originally reacting to pop music and
going to indie rock and different music to get away
from something that felt generic are now going back to
pop because I think pop is like doing that fast, emotional,
does this feel good and does it hit me right?
And that's all there is to it. It's not like, yeah,
like we got this drum sound from motion Away at
(18:03):
Nashville and the cost of a million dollars in it,
and we worked with the best guy in the world,
and I think that's like, yeah, that's dying, and it's
like kind of cool in a way. You guys have
been incredibly um prolific over the last few years, you know,
going back to Dear Miss Lonely Hearts, Hold My Home
l a divine, relatively short succession here. So I'm wondering,
(18:28):
did you just get in a groove in terms of
songwriting or did you just have a lot to say?
We actually, in between that, Moss and I did a
side project that a bandon was called French Style Furs
with another friend of hert Yeah, um my whistle is
who Actually the guy that did that with us was
the art director. Yeah, we're uh so, But we did
(18:54):
that record, French Style Furs. It was while we were
touring Dermis's Lonely Hearts and we were Nathan Workin too,
who played drums in the record. He lives in New York,
and we were there with a bunch of days off
in the middle of tour, and we started this record
and something about the nature of this experience that we
had there. These guys had recorded like a bunch of
instrumental tracks like drums and bass, and it really was
(19:17):
this pivotal feeling of like this is so free and
easy and um and fun. The way that the lyrics came.
I I think that you probably had this idea at
some point. But there's a writer poet that I love.
His name is Thomas Martin, and I had this huge
book with me and he was like, what if you
just used these poems as lyrics? And it was one
(19:39):
of those things where everything about this project came about
very quickly and was so fun piecemeal, And I think
working piecemeal like really helped us. Oh, we don't have
to be like a four guys in a garage playing
all the same time, but like focusing on like and
doing it piecemeal, I think really helped us with piecemeal,
meaning like you know, we're we're going to do a
(20:01):
vocal track here, We're gonna do a guitar thing here.
It's almost like everyone is like, let's make this the
best song possible. And I don't care who plays what,
I don't care where it came from, I don't care anything.
It's just like fast and and again, like I think
that's how pop music is now, and that's why I
think that's like nobody's precious about the part or this
(20:21):
is not my guitar gauge string, the string that I
usually use this or whatever. It's like, it's just about
what sounds cool, what it feels cool, and my precious
about the holistic experience, not every little detail, I think,
And I think that the more records we make, the
more less precious we've been about who's doing what on what.
But the fact that the record gets made is the
(20:42):
important part. And the records dialed. So it was in
that time and then we quickly made whole of my
home after that. But I think there's this, there's like
a spark there. There's a few years of like where
we did approach it more from the laboring side of
that thing of you know, four guys getting into room
and you know, waiting and talking and referencing bands and
(21:08):
all that stuff, which you know is like, um, it's
totally exhausting. My theory is always like I think of
bands from the sixties that like the greatest errors of music.
I think like there's always maybe like three to five
years or maybe three records in any bands, like original members,
original intention, pure democracy, the way that you approach that,
(21:32):
and I think there's just there's no way for something
to function beyond that. So at that point you you
sort of like become a little bit of an institution
and you just have to corporation. Yeah, and I think that,
you know, feels filthy to say, you know, to it
to a lot of people, but there is something that
(21:52):
it's like, well, you either figure out a way to
do that in a way that is still inspiring and
great to you, um, or you're gonna lose it. And
I that time period was I think pivotal too to
treating colder kids like, Okay, we can do whatever we
want here. We gotta be free. And that was a
free experience. So how do we take that? And you
(22:13):
guys had a history, so so you know, you could
bring all that history and experience to making the record
that that you wanted to make. I'm wondering if we
if we kind of rolled the videotape back a little
bit and think about, you know, your earliest influences, what
(22:34):
what bands? Because we were just talking about that, what
bands were you inspired by? Growing up? I mean I
always think like, because um, we kind of grew up
all over. I grew up in Anahei am Moscow Open, Claremont,
I e Ontario. But I say Claremont because they have
(22:55):
Rhino Records there. So it's my mom didn Corona. My
dad lived in Bernando Beach, we lived in a Whittier.
We lived in Long Beach at one point. So we're
just like spread all over. Hold on, we just had
a shout out for Whittier. Yeah, Um, Whittier is the
(23:17):
best and so weird. No, no, I love that Wei
is weird. Um, but that's you know, cheap cheap rent,
cheap rent, and we enjoyed like the record store was
a block away levels we wouldn't him a lot of money. Um,
where do we start here? My my r M and
(23:37):
you two are my two first favorite bands. And and
I'm not lying, I had an older brother. We both
had older brothers that gave us the good stuff. So
we had friends that didn't have older brothers that they like,
you know, they were more on the not his cool stuff.
But I think our brothers why, I can't tell you
how many how many artists I've spoken to on this
stage who had an older sibling that was completely in
(24:00):
fluential in Our brothers are both three and a half
years older than us. They fed us all the good stuff,
good for them, and I was always I don't know
you probably weren't this with my brother. I was always like,
what are you playing me? This is awful, you know,
and like and I hate it, Like he would show
me because I would hate him. Why do you like this?
(24:20):
And I and that I would hit a certain point
I go, oh my god, you know and so um
yeah that. But you guys have also gone back in reference,
you know, bands like the Velvet Underground. Yeah, I mean,
I guess, you know, a generation prior. I think like
when I think about brother influenced music, I like, yeah,
the the later. I feel like when we were in
(24:42):
school together and and and hanging out a lot, and
then kind of stuff like yeah, the you know, Velvet
Underground and Smith's or like a lot of British things.
And I think there's something about the weird um kind
of divide of like growing up in and around Orange
County and than No Doubts and Sublimes and the bands
that were enormous and internationally known like the world would
(25:07):
have thought like that is what southern California is. And
I think the reaction to that is is looking to
things like an underground of the Smiths and in places
like you know, like just New York London filthy uh
not like a bright, sunny, beautiful um. So would you
would you say, you know, kind of the early years
of the band where we're um sort of a reaction
(25:30):
to what you were hearing on the radio. I don't
think we even listened to the radio at that time.
I mean I stopped listening to the radio and Junior
High I would always take Richard Blade's flashback of Lunch
on KIROK and I would listen to that over and
o when it was all it was always a big
Audia Dynamite and the Smiths and Depuche Mode and all
that stuff. And I remember even into college, I listen
to those those cassette tapes like over and over like
(25:53):
still it was crazy. But I think the times that
he's talking about, I don't think we listen to the
radio at all. No, I mean we could have been
further from I think we prided ourselves I'm not listening
to the radio, like yeah, because it was the Internet
was newish and we could the iPod was like brand new.
We can like we can listen we want to all
the time. I don't. We don't need a radio. It
(26:14):
was also and to really a pinpoint. It was a
dark time for radio. Well there there not Why I
asked the question, there wasn't much going on there. Yeah,
I mean we we grew up in the like you know,
the limp Biscuit um era. It was that's an easy shot. Sorry, wait,
weren't we just doing that in the green room? Limp
(26:35):
Biscuit or smash mouth? What? What was your your guys
any day? Um? This is good to know. I'm lost.
I did. That didn't stop the conversation, but his shirt
slowed it down. Um. Um. One of the other things
(26:56):
you've said about about this particular record is it gave
you the chance to unplug and focus to you know,
kind of step away for a minute and focus on
the work. And I'm wondering, how did that help you
in terms of kind of stepping away, having a chance
to to consider what it is you're doing. Um? And
(27:16):
was was Large the producer helpful in that in that process? Yeah?
Very much. I think one reason this record was very
different was that from the time from the kind of
end of the last record and We'll be home from
tour and I would go to breakfast with Large a
lot and we would just talk about you know, everything,
(27:36):
the state of music and and what we thought was
good and not good, and and our band and where
we could be and what we're doing right, what we're
doing wrong, just kind of like everything. And it was
incredibly eye opening to me in this way that he
had produced UM the last couple of records for us,
and UM just one of those things that uh, you know,
(27:58):
I think the experience that we have, you know, inevitably
being in a band, you're in a sort of a bubble.
You you don't like finding those people that can sort
of speak truth into your situation. It's it's very hard
to find somebody who's not in it with you, UM,
or you know, somebody outside of it that may is
(28:19):
going to have a tainted perspective. He I think he's
just like, yeah, just kind of opened up the possibilities
of kind of like what we could do, and especially now,
like UM, I think the idea of being relevant is
more important than ever. And and that could be because
we've been doing this for a long time, and but
I do think that like the climate again of like
(28:39):
indie rock or just touring bands, like the idea of
like bands that started kind of post internet, post us,
like the idea of making a record and having it
be understood and important and praise before you go on
tour and slag it out on the road and and
try to make something for yourself. Like, UM is so
(29:00):
different in the way that we kind of came up.
And I think, Um, there's not like this pessimism towards
wanting to be relevant, wanting you know what, And that
can mean radio and that can mean um everything, like yeah,
just the the main stream for all that that can mean, Like,
there's not It's also that thing I was like, we
(29:20):
know who we are, so we don't really have to
change any about who we are. But do we want
to participate in that world like very much? You know.
And but that was a process of you know, shedding
some things and and some skepticism some years of you know,
learning we came from a different time. This is this
time and we want this speaking of um indie band
(29:44):
um and how you know, kind of how you guys
look at yourselves. You release this record on Capitol Records, Yeah, yeah,
when when one of your larger indie labels. Um, first
of all, I'm wondering why Capital, I mean I think
they just it felt right. And again that thing of
like almost like not bringing all the baggage of like
(30:06):
decades and generations of musicians that you love and everything,
but looking at it is like this is this is
what this is right here and right now, a bunch
of great people who are really excited about us, and um,
I felt like the right move. But yeah, I mean
the reason I asked is because you guys have not,
at least in my being able to read up, you
know a little bit about you engaged in the kind
(30:27):
of typical anti major label rhetoric you guys seem to
have been. Yeah, I feel like we grew up in it.
And the way that we kind of came into our
first record, the first five records, we did it on
a label called Downtown, and they were very much this like,
uh sort of in between label, like not a major label,
(30:47):
not a not a true indie label, and they had
but they operated like an indie label and they had
very few artists, and um, so I think from early on,
and we were very fortunate to have a lot of
labels interested early on, and some of them were any
labels that were like, you know that the name is
so impressive and rad and um, but that thing of like,
(31:11):
you know, I think it's always been a part of
us to not be seduced by the label that had
that Rattus band ten years ago and to kind of
go like that doesn't mean anything to us, that's not Yeah,
last question, what do you want people to take away
from this record? I always think, like when I think
(31:32):
about what's happening like radio song wise, wanting to kind
of do something that has a great impact, but it's
also kind of has the nuance of like relationships that
are not you know, most songs kind of fall into
the category of either a sad minor key song that
is a breakup or like a really uplifting, wonderful new
(31:54):
relationship song, and that's great. But the space in between
of like being in a relationship that has struggles that
are aren't just like I hate you, I'm leaving, or
you know, just like the nuance of of relationship and
how hard it is to to be together um is
a big part of what I think this relationship, this
(32:15):
record has. And then and then I guess there's things
about living in Los Angeles that I think are totally
unique to like living in anywhere in the rest of
the world that are you know, not like the first
time anybody has ever said them. But I guess in
this time and place and in this like you know,
this presidential election and this everything that's happening, like the
(32:36):
idea of like the rest of the world is out
there and we're kind of here and we don't totally
feel the impact of you know, decisions or violence or whatever.
I think we have the enormous fortune of having some distance,
and I guess there's a few I hope of feeling
in this record of like trying to wrestle with those questions. Well, yeah,
(32:59):
we um, we could not be more pleased that you
guys took the time to come down and thank you
so much a little bit, so ladies and gentlemen, give
it up for Nathan and Matt. Thank you guys, so yeah,
thank you. Now. Most artists will tell you that recording
(33:20):
live on the floor, everyone together is what works best.
But here we find a successful band that recognizes the
benefit of a piecemeal approach, allowing every band member to
really bring his strength to the song. I also found
Nathan's honesty refreshing when discussing the challenge of finding people
to tell him the truth, to provide him honest feedback.
(33:44):
So that's your required listening for today. Check out l
A Divine and let me know what you think. Remember,
we've got fresh episodes coming every Thursday. We're on all
the social platforms at Grammy Museum. If you're coming to
Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us at the Grammy Museum.
All the info is at our website grammy museum dot org.
As always, my thanks to the folks that make required
(34:06):
listening happen. Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan,
Miranda More, Calli Wiseman, Lenn Brown, Jason Hoape, Chandlermain's Nick
Stump Ghost, and Sean and the team at How Stuff Works.
Until next time, I'm Scott Goldman.
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the unique opportunity to speak to
artists from across the musical spectrum about their career, their inspirations,
and their creative process with Required Listening. I'm thrilled that
I can bring these interviews to you. On today's episode,
(00:25):
my conversation with Nathan Willett and Matt Moss from Cold
War Kids. Cold War Kids released their debut album, Robbers
and Cowards in two thousand and six. They were immediately
recognized for their lyrical tales of yesteryear and their blues
rock approach, but throughout the course of their years together
as a band, they've been really unafraid to make lyrical
(00:47):
and sonic changes to what they do. We got together
after they released their sixth album, entitled l A Divine,
and the album is very much about their hometown, Los Angeles.
Nathan mentioned that he's always looking to balance the personal
with the fictional element and the inspiration he found in
the gritty Los Angeles writer Jon Fonte. He also gives
(01:09):
the audience a lot of credit recognizing that people can
tell when a song is overthought. So let's go to
the Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with
Nathan Willett and Matt Most of Cold War Kids, our
guests this Evening burst onto the music scene in two
thousand six with their stunning debut Robbers and Cowards. They're
(01:32):
here tonight celebrating the very recent release of their sixth
full length Good to Know studio album entitled l A
Divine from the Cold War Kids. Give it up for
Nathan Willett and Matt Most. Thank you, Nat Brother, Thanks Matt,
(01:55):
got a mike right there. Hello, Hello, how are you
guys doing doing good? Yeah? I haven't talked from my
pedal board in this manner before. It's like two different
worlds to be Annoyer. You're like looking at that. You
don't have to worry about that for for for the talking,
you know, unless unless we need to process your voice
(02:17):
in some way. Okay, Um, thank you both for taking
the time and bringing the band down. So I want
to start with the new record and then you know,
we can kind of wind things back as we go.
But I was recently interviewing UM an artist here who
said to me that every album that he makes is
(02:38):
a reaction to the last album he made. And and
I'm wondering, so tell me, tell me how l a
Divine may or may not be a reaction to Hold
My Home. Yeah, that's a good it's a good one.
It's a big, big, big idea. Um. I mean there's
only had big ideas here at the Grammy Museum. There's
(03:00):
only let's see, there's something about making an album that
you're I think there's been a in my mind from
the first record and how you know, every band has
a similar story of writing songs and and touring them
and then going in to record them in in a
way that is not every band, but are you know
a lot of bands that that story of like where
(03:21):
you go in and you record, it's very organic and
you you work with what you've got and and it
it feels like just a flow of like, uh, it's
very natural. And I think that was, you know, our
the way that we experienced it. We made the first
record and made like maybe ten days or something, and um,
and it just was songs that were so familiar with
and that we played so many times. And that's how
(03:42):
it goes in the way that it sounded and what
we wanted to do with it and UM and so
you know, and in all the paths that you take
after that. In a way, I felt like for this record,
Eli Divine, for the sixth record, like there's something about
UM taking everywhere we had been sonically and songwriting and
every just kind of really just kind of trying to
(04:04):
do the best version of everything that we have done,
which is That's the way that I kind of thought
about it going into it was there's been a real
consistency in the origin of the Cold wor Kids sound
that I wanted to really kind of like have this
sixth record kind of just like do the best version
of that, but have the songs be the front and center.
(04:26):
So it's almost a reaction about all five records. Yeah,
thank you must Yes, Yes, so I guess you interpret. Yes,
it's it's our greatest hits. That is new songs of
gret because you know, one of the things that you
guys have been relatively fearless about, I think is kind
(04:49):
of changing up your approach album by album, changing the sound,
maybe changing the approach to songwriting. You know, it's so weird,
Like I feel like we've really tive to like a
true left field turn, which would be something like making
a gospel reggae record or something you know, Vandross record.
(05:11):
Oh man, that'd be so fun. That's a great idea, um.
But something that is like deeply conceptual and out of character.
I always think like that would be something that I
could see people being. You know, if if I love
this record and then you do that and now I'm
mad at you, I could see that. But for like,
the kind of changes that I feel like are have
(05:32):
not been like enormous risks, enormous like shifts in style
and tone. But it is interesting hearing people's reaction that
is almost that severe you know that you almost went
like that far and you're like, whoa, we didn't even
go that far. So that that is has been interesting
to me and I and I guess I sometimes wonder
(05:52):
was it was it different at any point? Like was
it different in the seventies when like a band would
be like, all right, now we are going to do
the weirdest possible thing. It might be a little safer now,
but there's also a great thing I think again, like
for this record, wanting to be like like I don't
totally want to discover something totally new, like I want
to write the best songs within the kind of tools
(06:15):
that we've had all I'm wondering if you guys you know,
because the last record had a song on it on
the first which number one on alternative charts. People responded
very positively and strongly. Apparently it holds the record for
second longest running alternative number one in the charts history.
(06:42):
But it was called First. I knew that it doesn't
make sense ase it's called first, and you thought, you know, yes,
the second. Yeah, you guys, you know somehow managed to
title the song first, which was you know, the first
second suppression to say the least. But that comes. It
strikes me that that kind of success and attention comes
(07:02):
with a little bit of its own pressure in terms
of as you go in to make the next record,
are you thinking about that? Um? Well, with this one,
I guess, like almost the way that everything has worked
for this band, the way that's always been for us,
we've had this like, I mean, it really has in
many ways been like a kind of a fairy tale
(07:23):
experience where like even from the first record and how
totally oblivious and naive we were to anything in music
industry or labels or anything. And we just got to
We got to go on tour for fun and and
book odd shows and have no idea what we're doing
and and have that experience for a couple of years
before it got weird or bad, and and and in
(07:44):
a time when it was and then it was like
it had a very cliche fairy tale thing where like
at south By Southwest we found our our booking agent
and our lawyer, like in our label, and and things
have gone. I always think about how it's like of
people that give their life to music. I feel that
(08:04):
it was they're they're not sure whether it was a
good deal or not. Like we we have been incredibly lucky.
And um so yeah, I guess uh, I don't know
why I kind of went that direction, But what was
the original question? Honestly you lost me. Yeah, but but
it's good. It's good. So so let me let me
ask you. Let me ask you this. You are You
(08:25):
are very much into kind of the lyrically, the literary songs.
You know lyrics, and you have a you know, a
love of putting you know, the right words together with
the music and I'm wondering if if there is a
thematic thread to l a divine what's what's the story
(08:45):
you're looking to tell? Ah, the story I'm we're gonna tell.
I guess that that balance between there being like a
very personal element to the narrative and there being a
fictional one that is, you know, me and not me.
And I guess that's always been kind of the goal.
And one one thing that my mind goes to is
(09:08):
the like the writer Jon Fonte and his book like
A Yeah, Like that to me is like, what is
it about that book that so inspires you? Because it's
a it's a for those of you who don't know
Jon Fonte, great gritty author, wrote this book about his
experience here in Los Angeles, and it's it's rough. Yeah.
(09:30):
I think that he has a kind of a sweetness
in in in roughness and just the highs and lows,
the emotional roller coaster of his life, his experience, and
and he'll go like he could get a hundred dollars
and and be the happiest person in the world and
spend it all on the dumbest things and be the
sadas personal just in one page and like and and
(09:51):
there's a lot of religion in it. There's a lot
of religious guilt in it, there's a lot of the
religious inspiration in it. And then there's just, uh, just
his outlook on life is so um, it's not one thing.
It's all over the place and polar and but he
has these huge dreams and then also can fall so
(10:12):
hard into depression. And I think that because it's almost like,
I mean almost like a hundred years ago that he
was writing this. There's something about the purity of that
time that I love so much that I guess found
its way here in a way that I relate to
a long um. You've also talked about, you know, kind
of the thematic um element running through the record about
(10:33):
surrendering to feeling. Is that something that's been a challenge
for you previously in terms of kind of surrendering to
a sense of feeling that that maybe you didn't want
people to hear or know about you. Are you saying
you get like from the lyrics, you're you're, you're, you're
(10:53):
deciphering this a little bit Okay, cool, No, that's great. Um.
I I mean we're still the records so new to her.
I'm still kind of like, I don't know, I always
like to sort of not like leave it to people's interpretations,
not totally noticed. But yeah, I personally always sort of
struggle to get out of my head, you know, and
(11:14):
just to write something that's more than working my way
out of my own rambling. Um takes a lot of work.
And uh so, yeah, surrendering to feeling. I think that's
one thing that's going on. They're learning to um. I
think it's you know, that's something that I definitely wrestle
with and feel a lot. Is that thing of like
(11:36):
wanting to be of very transparent on the surface giving
person but knowing like you know a lot of ways
that's not who I am, but that's who I want
to be. How how is the songwriting evolved over time?
Because you know, when you guys started you were all
(11:57):
pretty young, How is it evolved to where you were now?
And has it changed another? Weirdly Like, that's one of
those hard ones for me, But but I think in
a weird way, the song first taught me a lot
about what works and how to not overthink certain things,
(12:19):
and um, there's something about kind of the looseness of
that song and how like if someone was to say,
what is that song about or what does it mean
or what is Um I would be like, it's so
scattered and and and I'm really in a lot of
ways surprised that people related to it in the way
that they did, because it's a very stream of consciousness
(12:39):
kind of style and not like there's narrative elements to it.
But it's very like it was because of the nature
of like we were we were done doing this record,
kind of had this song that I wanted to finish
very quickly and I didn't have time to overthink it.
And it was the way that I went in and
sort of finished writing it quickly, and um, that kind
of taught me about putting it all out there and
(13:02):
not being able to go back on it. And I
think there's something very important about that. But at the
same time, that's not like the recipe for how to
always write songs. Yeah, for this record, I actually most
has a great house in Silver Lake that is like
a little weird cabin that is uh like a like
(13:23):
a kind of like a retreat almost. Yeah, and uh
and there's there's a lot of days that um, so
as as we were kind of enjoying the success of
first and this thing happening that in many ways it's
so bizarre. But when you've been a band for ten
(13:43):
plus years and you see an audience that is like
you start to realize, like, oh, these people don't know
first record songs at all. They know new record songs,
and it's like it's really a trip. It's a crazy
thing to see. And so I wanted to make this
record in a way that was like before anybody was asking,
before anybody was looking, like, let's get this thing done,
(14:04):
because I know what it needs to be, you know.
And that was a lot of the like just the
feeling I had, which is a great feeling knowing like
I'm not like gonna search a lot. I know what
this needs to be. There's um. I had the feeling
of like it's all been leading up to this, you know.
And like, so I went to his house a lot
of days and just he has a lot of art
books on the wall and h great couch I be
(14:28):
home in the daytime. It's I always felt bad, Moss,
is it okay? If I were over, I don't want
to be in my studio. Yeah, So I would just
I would go there and write. And that was great,
and uh, I could. I could spend ten hours doing that.
And I do think it's the most un rock and
(14:48):
roll boring totally, like strangest part about record making where
I think the idea of sitting there writing and rewriting
and being and now I gotta go get some coffee.
I gotta I go, I get it. This is you know,
it's just it's painstaking. That part of it's very um
it kind of is punishing, and and it starting over
(15:08):
on songs and going that way, um, especially when it's
not like, uh, you know, five verse ten minutes song
like it's every word is very important, and I like
I wanted to treat it that way of just like
giving giving everything to it. And and I'm really glad
how it turned out. Do you, I mean, do you
prefer to work fast? Do you find that by not
(15:33):
laboring over things it's actually better. It's all about like
kind of the time in between where like you can
be so prepared going into it sometimes if everything is
sort of set up in a way by everything like
like the band is around and and able to jump
in and and the producers there, and it's like it's
(15:54):
all about creating that environment that can potentially allow things
to happen very quickly. That's truly where I feel like
creating that environment for me took the last ten years
to to totally allow for like a song to come
very quickly and for it to be done and well
and even forget about it and never go through the
(16:14):
process of loving it and then hating it and then
loving it again and and beating it up and all
that stuff. It's like, and that's why this record was
totally different, Like these songs feel so new to me
and I never you know, and I never hated them. Um.
I mean, we've had, you know, any number of producers
here over time who talked about working with artists and
(16:35):
one of the things that they try to prevent is
laboring over something such that you get to hate it
after what I mean, that's that does not seem to
be conducive to a quality creative process. Yeah, it is.
It's a strange thing. It's one of those things that
I do think you have to learn for yourself though
weirdly because I understand why, like a producer and he
(16:57):
would want to give you the space too, like you
have to figure it out your way, and some people
that is their way to spend forever. But songs are
you know, magical and strange in that way that you
can spend days and days and months on. I also
think the world like where the music industry has changed
so much in the way that like making an A
(17:19):
C d C record and spending three weeks on the
snare sounded like. I think that's it's not like that's gone.
It's about there's like a heart that you know. It's
the emotion of a song is so much more immediate
and something that's labored over is so obvious now to
people hear this and like this is overthought, And I
think that's a big part of the reason that like
(17:41):
that people that were originally reacting to pop music and
going to indie rock and different music to get away
from something that felt generic are now going back to
pop because I think pop is like doing that fast, emotional,
does this feel good and does it hit me right?
And that's all there is to it. It's not like, yeah,
like we got this drum sound from motion Away at
(18:03):
Nashville and the cost of a million dollars in it,
and we worked with the best guy in the world,
and I think that's like, yeah, that's dying, and it's
like kind of cool in a way. You guys have
been incredibly um prolific over the last few years, you know,
going back to Dear Miss Lonely Hearts, Hold My Home
l a divine, relatively short succession here. So I'm wondering,
(18:28):
did you just get in a groove in terms of
songwriting or did you just have a lot to say?
We actually, in between that, Moss and I did a
side project that a bandon was called French Style Furs
with another friend of hert Yeah, um my whistle is
who Actually the guy that did that with us was
the art director. Yeah, we're uh so, But we did
(18:54):
that record, French Style Furs. It was while we were
touring Dermis's Lonely Hearts and we were Nathan Workin too,
who played drums in the record. He lives in New York,
and we were there with a bunch of days off
in the middle of tour, and we started this record
and something about the nature of this experience that we
had there. These guys had recorded like a bunch of
instrumental tracks like drums and bass, and it really was
(19:17):
this pivotal feeling of like this is so free and
easy and um and fun. The way that the lyrics came.
I I think that you probably had this idea at
some point. But there's a writer poet that I love.
His name is Thomas Martin, and I had this huge
book with me and he was like, what if you
just used these poems as lyrics? And it was one
(19:39):
of those things where everything about this project came about
very quickly and was so fun piecemeal, And I think
working piecemeal like really helped us. Oh, we don't have
to be like a four guys in a garage playing
all the same time, but like focusing on like and
doing it piecemeal, I think really helped us with piecemeal,
meaning like you know, we're we're going to do a
(20:01):
vocal track here, We're gonna do a guitar thing here.
It's almost like everyone is like, let's make this the
best song possible. And I don't care who plays what,
I don't care where it came from, I don't care anything.
It's just like fast and and again, like I think
that's how pop music is now, and that's why I
think that's like nobody's precious about the part or this
(20:21):
is not my guitar gauge string, the string that I
usually use this or whatever. It's like, it's just about
what sounds cool, what it feels cool, and my precious
about the holistic experience, not every little detail, I think,
And I think that the more records we make, the
more less precious we've been about who's doing what on what.
But the fact that the record gets made is the
(20:42):
important part. And the records dialed. So it was in
that time and then we quickly made whole of my
home after that. But I think there's this, there's like
a spark there. There's a few years of like where
we did approach it more from the laboring side of
that thing of you know, four guys getting into room
and you know, waiting and talking and referencing bands and
(21:08):
all that stuff, which you know is like, um, it's
totally exhausting. My theory is always like I think of
bands from the sixties that like the greatest errors of music.
I think like there's always maybe like three to five
years or maybe three records in any bands, like original members,
original intention, pure democracy, the way that you approach that,
(21:32):
and I think there's just there's no way for something
to function beyond that. So at that point you you
sort of like become a little bit of an institution
and you just have to corporation. Yeah, and I think that,
you know, feels filthy to say, you know, to it
to a lot of people, but there is something that
(21:52):
it's like, well, you either figure out a way to
do that in a way that is still inspiring and
great to you, um, or you're gonna lose it. And
I that time period was I think pivotal too to
treating colder kids like, Okay, we can do whatever we
want here. We gotta be free. And that was a
free experience. So how do we take that? And you
(22:13):
guys had a history, so so you know, you could
bring all that history and experience to making the record
that that you wanted to make. I'm wondering if we
if we kind of rolled the videotape back a little
bit and think about, you know, your earliest influences, what
(22:34):
what bands? Because we were just talking about that, what
bands were you inspired by? Growing up? I mean I
always think like, because um, we kind of grew up
all over. I grew up in Anahei am Moscow Open, Claremont,
I e Ontario. But I say Claremont because they have
(22:55):
Rhino Records there. So it's my mom didn Corona. My
dad lived in Bernando Beach, we lived in a Whittier.
We lived in Long Beach at one point. So we're
just like spread all over. Hold on, we just had
a shout out for Whittier. Yeah, Um, Whittier is the
(23:17):
best and so weird. No, no, I love that Wei
is weird. Um, but that's you know, cheap cheap rent,
cheap rent, and we enjoyed like the record store was
a block away levels we wouldn't him a lot of money. Um,
where do we start here? My my r M and
(23:37):
you two are my two first favorite bands. And and
I'm not lying, I had an older brother. We both
had older brothers that gave us the good stuff. So
we had friends that didn't have older brothers that they like,
you know, they were more on the not his cool stuff.
But I think our brothers why, I can't tell you
how many how many artists I've spoken to on this
stage who had an older sibling that was completely in
(24:00):
fluential in Our brothers are both three and a half
years older than us. They fed us all the good stuff,
good for them, and I was always I don't know
you probably weren't this with my brother. I was always like,
what are you playing me? This is awful, you know,
and like and I hate it, Like he would show
me because I would hate him. Why do you like this?
(24:20):
And I and that I would hit a certain point
I go, oh my god, you know and so um
yeah that. But you guys have also gone back in reference,
you know, bands like the Velvet Underground. Yeah, I mean,
I guess, you know, a generation prior. I think like
when I think about brother influenced music, I like, yeah,
the the later. I feel like when we were in
(24:42):
school together and and and hanging out a lot, and
then kind of stuff like yeah, the you know, Velvet
Underground and Smith's or like a lot of British things.
And I think there's something about the weird um kind
of divide of like growing up in and around Orange
County and than No Doubts and Sublimes and the bands
that were enormous and internationally known like the world would
(25:07):
have thought like that is what southern California is. And
I think the reaction to that is is looking to
things like an underground of the Smiths and in places
like you know, like just New York London filthy uh
not like a bright, sunny, beautiful um. So would you
would you say, you know, kind of the early years
of the band where we're um sort of a reaction
(25:30):
to what you were hearing on the radio. I don't
think we even listened to the radio at that time.
I mean I stopped listening to the radio and Junior
High I would always take Richard Blade's flashback of Lunch
on KIROK and I would listen to that over and
o when it was all it was always a big
Audia Dynamite and the Smiths and Depuche Mode and all
that stuff. And I remember even into college, I listen
to those those cassette tapes like over and over like
(25:53):
still it was crazy. But I think the times that
he's talking about, I don't think we listen to the
radio at all. No, I mean we could have been
further from I think we prided ourselves I'm not listening
to the radio, like yeah, because it was the Internet
was newish and we could the iPod was like brand new.
We can like we can listen we want to all
the time. I don't. We don't need a radio. It
(26:14):
was also and to really a pinpoint. It was a
dark time for radio. Well there there not Why I
asked the question, there wasn't much going on there. Yeah,
I mean we we grew up in the like you know,
the limp Biscuit um era. It was that's an easy shot. Sorry, wait,
weren't we just doing that in the green room? Limp
(26:35):
Biscuit or smash mouth? What? What was your your guys
any day? Um? This is good to know. I'm lost.
I did. That didn't stop the conversation, but his shirt
slowed it down. Um. Um. One of the other things
(26:56):
you've said about about this particular record is it gave
you the chance to unplug and focus to you know,
kind of step away for a minute and focus on
the work. And I'm wondering, how did that help you
in terms of kind of stepping away, having a chance
to to consider what it is you're doing. Um? And
(27:16):
was was Large the producer helpful in that in that process? Yeah?
Very much. I think one reason this record was very
different was that from the time from the kind of
end of the last record and We'll be home from
tour and I would go to breakfast with Large a
lot and we would just talk about you know, everything,
(27:36):
the state of music and and what we thought was
good and not good, and and our band and where
we could be and what we're doing right, what we're
doing wrong, just kind of like everything. And it was
incredibly eye opening to me in this way that he
had produced UM the last couple of records for us,
and UM just one of those things that uh, you know,
(27:58):
I think the experience that we have, you know, inevitably
being in a band, you're in a sort of a bubble.
You you don't like finding those people that can sort
of speak truth into your situation. It's it's very hard
to find somebody who's not in it with you, UM,
or you know, somebody outside of it that may is
(28:19):
going to have a tainted perspective. He I think he's
just like, yeah, just kind of opened up the possibilities
of kind of like what we could do, and especially now,
like UM, I think the idea of being relevant is
more important than ever. And and that could be because
we've been doing this for a long time, and but
I do think that like the climate again of like
(28:39):
indie rock or just touring bands, like the idea of
like bands that started kind of post internet, post us,
like the idea of making a record and having it
be understood and important and praise before you go on
tour and slag it out on the road and and
try to make something for yourself. Like, UM is so
(29:00):
different in the way that we kind of came up.
And I think, Um, there's not like this pessimism towards
wanting to be relevant, wanting you know what, And that
can mean radio and that can mean um everything, like yeah,
just the the main stream for all that that can mean, Like,
there's not It's also that thing I was like, we
(29:20):
know who we are, so we don't really have to
change any about who we are. But do we want
to participate in that world like very much? You know.
And but that was a process of you know, shedding
some things and and some skepticism some years of you know,
learning we came from a different time. This is this
time and we want this speaking of um indie band
(29:44):
um and how you know, kind of how you guys
look at yourselves. You release this record on Capitol Records, Yeah, yeah,
when when one of your larger indie labels. Um, first
of all, I'm wondering why Capital, I mean I think
they just it felt right. And again that thing of
like almost like not bringing all the baggage of like
(30:06):
decades and generations of musicians that you love and everything,
but looking at it is like this is this is
what this is right here and right now, a bunch
of great people who are really excited about us, and um,
I felt like the right move. But yeah, I mean
the reason I asked is because you guys have not,
at least in my being able to read up, you
know a little bit about you engaged in the kind
(30:27):
of typical anti major label rhetoric you guys seem to
have been. Yeah, I feel like we grew up in it.
And the way that we kind of came into our
first record, the first five records, we did it on
a label called Downtown, and they were very much this like,
uh sort of in between label, like not a major label,
(30:47):
not a not a true indie label, and they had
but they operated like an indie label and they had
very few artists, and um, so I think from early on,
and we were very fortunate to have a lot of
labels interested early on, and some of them were any
labels that were like, you know that the name is
so impressive and rad and um, but that thing of like,
(31:11):
you know, I think it's always been a part of
us to not be seduced by the label that had
that Rattus band ten years ago and to kind of
go like that doesn't mean anything to us, that's not Yeah,
last question, what do you want people to take away
from this record? I always think, like when I think
(31:32):
about what's happening like radio song wise, wanting to kind
of do something that has a great impact, but it's
also kind of has the nuance of like relationships that
are not you know, most songs kind of fall into
the category of either a sad minor key song that
is a breakup or like a really uplifting, wonderful new
(31:54):
relationship song, and that's great. But the space in between
of like being in a relationship that has struggles that
are aren't just like I hate you, I'm leaving, or
you know, just like the nuance of of relationship and
how hard it is to to be together um is
a big part of what I think this relationship, this
(32:15):
record has. And then and then I guess there's things
about living in Los Angeles that I think are totally
unique to like living in anywhere in the rest of
the world that are you know, not like the first
time anybody has ever said them. But I guess in
this time and place and in this like you know,
this presidential election and this everything that's happening, like the
(32:36):
idea of like the rest of the world is out
there and we're kind of here and we don't totally
feel the impact of you know, decisions or violence or whatever.
I think we have the enormous fortune of having some distance,
and I guess there's a few I hope of feeling
in this record of like trying to wrestle with those questions. Well, yeah,
(32:59):
we um, we could not be more pleased that you
guys took the time to come down and thank you
so much a little bit, so ladies and gentlemen, give
it up for Nathan and Matt. Thank you guys, so yeah,
thank you. Now. Most artists will tell you that recording
(33:20):
live on the floor, everyone together is what works best.
But here we find a successful band that recognizes the
benefit of a piecemeal approach, allowing every band member to
really bring his strength to the song. I also found
Nathan's honesty refreshing when discussing the challenge of finding people
to tell him the truth, to provide him honest feedback.
(33:44):
So that's your required listening for today. Check out l
A Divine and let me know what you think. Remember,
we've got fresh episodes coming every Thursday. We're on all
the social platforms at Grammy Museum. If you're coming to
Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us at the Grammy Museum.
All the info is at our website grammy museum dot org.
As always, my thanks to the folks that make required
(34:06):
listening happen. Jason James, Justin Joseph Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan,
Miranda More, Calli Wiseman, Lenn Brown, Jason Hoape, Chandlermain's Nick
Stump Ghost, and Sean and the team at How Stuff Works.
Until next time, I'm Scott Goldman.
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