September 21, 2024 • 38 mins
It's become one of the strangest anecdotes in modern American history -- numerous sources will swear to you that, in a last-minute panic before reaching customs, legendary musician Louis Armstrong had Richard Nixon's unwitting assistance smuggling a hefty amount of marijuana through US customs. It's bizarre (and pretty hilarious) if true... but how true is it? Tune in as the guys get to the bottom of this bizarre American fable in this week's Classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow ridiculous historians, Welcome to our classic episode for this week.
We like music, We like presidential history dancing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We also like to like dancing. We like it dance. Sure, No,
I'm sorry, I just music and dancing go hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Now there's Max Williams. You're Noel Brown. I've been bowler. Yeah, yeah,
we're here, are you right? You guys remember Richard Nixon?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, that guy was a bit of a pill. Huh,
don't think very finally, not great. Actually, when I think
of him, I think of the terrifying Richard Nixon masks
that were worn. I believe in the movie Point Break
there was a Ronald Reagan mask and a Richard Nixon
mass those groovy surfers used when they were like doing crimes.
I only think of Futurama. Also fair good, superior Nixon
(00:54):
in Futurama to the actual Nixon. But I'll tell you, though,
when you mentioned music, one thing that comes to mind
immediately is old Louis Armstrong, Old Satchmo blowing that horn
with those big old puffy cheeks. Excellent trumpet player and
really iconic gravelly singing voice, and apparently quite fond of
the weed.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yes, the marijuana, the canna bus right. This episode is
about how Richard Nixon may or may not have unwittingly
smuggled cannabis on behalf of Louis.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Armstrong roll that footage.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Oh man, oh man,
(02:04):
oh man. It's been a while. We are finally cool
enough cats that we can have a little bit of
intro music for today's episode, Friends and Neighbors. That was Muggles.
(02:29):
That's performed by Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And co Hi. My name is Ben, my name is Nola.
So we're doing a Harry Potter episode today, right, one
would think, one would think, but in fact we are
doing something that involves what some people would call magic. Yeah,
we're talking about the reefer right left, the jazz cigarette,
(02:53):
the gauge, the gauge which was mister Armstrong's personal favorite
slang for marijuana.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And we were we have had so much fun researching
this legend that we were worried our you know, our
better third and saving Grace. Super producer Casey Pegrim might
actually get tired of us. But while we while we
have them in the studio still, we are going to
(03:24):
take advantage of that precious time.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's really cloudy and it's should we open a door?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
No, okay, don't don't engage with drugs, kids, don't engage
with the gauge. Yes, don't gauge, don't get you got there?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, we're here, we're here.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Oh. Man.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
But our research was strictly academic for this, absolutely, yeah,
one hundred percent. But man, this is a cool story.
It's a lot wrapped up and uh, part of it
is a bit of kind of an urban legend, apocryphal. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So we are exploring the life and times of one
of the great So someone that I really enjoy and
I think you do as well. Knowl that is Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Pops, Yes, Satchmo.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And Louis Armstrong is known and loved the world over.
He is one of those people you could rightly call
an icon.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That's right. Born in nineteen hundred August fourth, to be precise,
in New Orleans, Louis as wella.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
He lied about his age though too. Oh he's he's
a very layered man.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Very much so cloaked in mystery. But one thing we
do know is true. He grew up in a very
tough neighborhood in New Orleans called the Battlefield. His father
left the family when he was just a little boy,
and he kind of had defend for himself taking ant jobs.
His mother apparently was only able to pay the bills
through sex work, and he had kind of a wild
(04:51):
upbringing in the court sort of ceed underbelly of New
Orleans included dance clubs and women of the evening, and
of course a lot of jazz musicians right right.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
His first exposure to music in a learning environment was
at the Fisk School for Boys when he was about
six years old. But he ended up putting in his
time when it came to listening to music at brothels
and dance halls, because he had a gig selling coal
for a nickel per bucket in these you know, in
(05:26):
these houses of prostitution in an area called Storyville. And
then as he was as he was making his rounds
delivering coal, he ran into these house musicians and he
ran into something called spasm bands.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, I don't know about spasm bands. Tell me more.
I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A spasm band is a musical group that plays Dixie Land,
traditional jazz, jug band or skiffle music.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Skiffle like, that's sort of what the Beatles were considered.
They were part of the skiffle scene. Apparently in the
UK the skiffle was sort of like a folk pop
kind of form of.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Music, right, Yeah, nailed it, nailed it, jazz, blues, folk
and American folk, known for some improvised instruments. So he,
as as you said, began hanging out there, spending serious
time in these halls, and it was pretty apparent early
on that he had a gift, a calling, a compulsion
(06:25):
to play music, to sing, and to play the horn.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And he was taken under the wing of a professor,
Peter Davis, who taught Armstrong to play the cornet, which
I believe is kind of a like a smaller trumpet.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A trumpet is a little bit longer and more slender
than a cornet, but in reality they both play the
same notes and they sound more or less the same.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I got so easy one to one transition from the
cornet to a trumpet.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you want to get nerdy about it, O course. Idea,
the difference is mainly the way the tubing of the
instrument flares. A cornet is more cone shaped or conical
than a trumpet.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So as a cornet kind of considered more bite sized portable.
I don't know, I don't see the point.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, let us know we are not a cornetician's.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, it's true. But I am fond of some hot jazz.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Ah, yes, hot jazz, which in its day would be
considered often as controversial.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Perhaps as the use of drugs and Louis Armstrong's jazz
career is worthy of not just an episode, but an
entire podcast. We just spent exploring this guy and exploring
the personal struggles that he endured. I have some great
Louis Armstrong facts at the end of this. But before
(07:44):
you and I go too far down the fanboy rabbit hole,
should we set the scene for today's encounter?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think we should, Ben, I think we should please
do the honors. Today's episode centers around an apocryphal tale.
I believe you weren't used that word earlier, Ben, A
pot full tale. Not good. It's fine, We're keeping it it. Yeah.
Where So Louis Armstrong during the Cold War, he was
(08:13):
made a US ambassador, a good will ambassador, excuse me.
He was sent abroad, as were many African American musicians
and actors and writers. I don't know, to preach equality.
I guess during the era of integration.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Well, yeah, so a good will ambassador isn't just relegated
to this period in time, like Angelina Jolie is a
good will ambassador, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
They're a person who advocates for They are person who
advocates typically for a country or maybe for a specific cause,
based on the fact that everyone knows who they are.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That's right. So Louis Armstrong had this distinction straight from
the US State Department, who actually also paid for or
in part financed a tour that he did in Europe
and Asia. And while there are a few versions of
this story that sort of change where he was coming from, uh,
the one common little thread is that Louis Armstrong was
(09:13):
at the airport on after getting off a plane from
from one of these trips, and he was led out
of line into a customs line.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which was unusual for it because, according to the story,
as a goodwill ambassador, he was traveling to different areas
of the world and never having to enter custom.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
They waved him on through. Sure, but he was supposedly
coming back from Japan. That's that's the most consistent version
of the story that I've read. And so, yeah, he's
in this line and he starts to sweat. Why is
he sweating? He's not. He's not sweating because of the
because of the sound of a hot trumpet.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, He's not sweating because of the heat in the airport.
He is sweating because his trumpet case contains more than
a beautiful musical instrument. He is, in our parlance today
writing dirty riding, dirty packing. Yeah, he has a gauge
on him. Yep, he's gauged up. Yeah, he's got his
(10:12):
muggles slaying for marijuana at the time. His left hand
cigarettes in a pretty substantial amount. Yeah, three pounds. Right,
that's what we hear with the story. And there's something
important we want you to be aware of. As we're
telling this story. You may hear us switching between different
versions and different sources.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Again, quite apocryphal, bordering on urban legend, very hard to
confirm or deny the story. But there are several versions
in Louis Armstrong biographies that are floating out there. So
we'll give you we'll give you the kind of the
Barmones version. So we got off the first class flight.
He's going into a customs line, and then who does
(10:56):
he see but Richard Nixon, who was on the way
to becoming president or serving as a vice president. Tricky
Dicky yep.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Himself the one of the men who would go on
to become a huge advocate of what we call the
drug war.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, the war on drugs, the.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
War on drugs, and so in a panic and thinking
quickly Louis Armstrong, who is talking with Nixon, who turns
out to be a huge.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Fan of well the way I've read it too, and
there's a couple of versions. But Nixon sees Louis and
comes running at him with open arms. I think he's
going to get a sweet press photo, y Armstrong Satchmo.
He says, he says trash mal doing so.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Louis Armstrong thinks this is a sign and Nixon's like, oh,
you know, one fan anything, don't help you, And he says, actually, yes,
you see, I'm I'm old. And this trumpet is heavy.
Do you think he could carry it for me?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Give me a hand. That was an amazing Louis Armstrong impression.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I feel like it would be racist for either of
us to attempt to absolute yes, but next to work
on Yeah, we could do we could do our muppet
level Nixon's back and forth. Write in and let us
know if you want us to do a show where
both of us are Richard Nixon. We're ridiculous at HowStuffWorks
dot com. Oh man, what if people write in, We'll
(12:25):
do it if only if the episode has nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
To do with Richard Nixon.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's fine, Okay, you're agreed to this, sure, all right.
So what happens when Armstrong asked him to give him
a hand.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, first of all, one version one. One difference in
various accounts is whether he was carrying one case or
two cases. I think he would make the most sense
for him to have been carrying two cases, because yeah,
three pounds of weed is not going to fit into
a single trumpet case.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Right, And then also asking someone to carry something for
you when you have nothing else to carry.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
See shady again. Several versions. The one that we're kind
of talking about here is Nixon demands that he handed
him his cases because he says, a good world ambassador
doesn't have to go through customs, and the vice president
of the United States will carry your suitcases, sash Ma.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And then Again, this story, depending on when you hear it,
describes a different point in Richard Nixon's career. But according
to the story, according to the legend, what happens is
with the maybe not the best of intentions, because he
clearly wanted the photo. The man who would later become
Richard Nixon, a very anti drug president. Yeah, carries marijuana
(13:41):
through customs for Louis Armstrong hands it back to Louis Armstrong,
who somehow must have been keeping a straight face through
the whole thing. And later Louis and some of his
accompanists will swear by this story. But the thing is,
depending on who you ask, the story differs in a
(14:04):
multitude of ways.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
First off, Armstrong was only about twelve years older than Nixon.
Because he got his he would tell people who was
born on August fourth, nineteen hundred, but it was more
like nineteen oh one, because it was a thirteen month
or so different.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, man, and that particular account is credited. This is
getting in a murky territory here, real someone named Miles
So Miles Davis. Oh sure, I don't know. It's hard
to say, but yeah, as it turns out, though, that
keyboardist that's mentioned in that version of the story never
played with Louis Armstrong, right, so yeah, there's shock full of.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Holes that there's no record of any session where they
played together. And so in that version he Armstrong was
not necessarily an ambassador. He was just on a good
will tour and he was going to I think they
were all on the same planet, and they were headed
to Moscow in this thing, So the directions and the locations.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Changed, that's right. And this is in what year are
we talking here?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
This particular the Moscow story would date it to nineteen
fifty nine, and that has its problems as well.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Right, But in general, like if we're looking at a
rough estimate for when this meeting was supposed to take place,
it would have been late fifties, early sixties, right, Yeah,
that's about right, Yeah, exactly. So the goodwill tours, I
think the part of it was about integration because a
lot of the people they sent on these tours were
African American luminaries, and it was meant, I think, to show, hey,
(15:40):
we're doing good work.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well because one of the tenets of the Soviet ideology
at the time was that communism provides much more equality
than capitalism. So this is sort of a foray against.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Exactly, and so it's also tied to the Cold War
as well, right.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, at least ideologically. And so this
story continues through some other iterations.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
The problem with the idea of the vice president of
the US taking a flight on official business to Moscow
in nineteen fifty nine is that there would be some
sort of record of it, right, well, sure, although it
is true that apparently in those days the vice president
would have taken commercial flights, which I thought was fascinating
big time.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I had no idea, Well, what a kick in the
pants man? Seriously, man, is the president hops on air
Force one and what do you just fist bump and
then say all right, I gotta go get in line
catch my flight. And customs, of course, was a lot
easier in those days.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Everything, I mean, yeah, yeah, Going to the airport today
just stresses me out so much it's not fun.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Further, there had only been three trips by jazz musicians
to Russia by nineteen seventy one, at least that are documented,
and Louis Armstrong was not one of those consitions.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So I'm leaning towards this is if this did happen?
Probably coming back from his I've seen this version of
the story enough times that it seems to stick. Coming
back from one of his tours in Asia in Japan. Yes,
this is one of those stories though, where it's it's
(17:35):
you want to believe it because it's just so funny
to think that Satchmo kind of put one over on
tricky Dick Nixon before he was even well known as
being such a vehement anti drug force. You know. But
can we talk a little bit about Satchmo's lifelong love
of the Mary Jane. Yeah, let's set it up with
a clip. What do you say? Yeah, so this is
(17:55):
a clip from Louis Armstrong on some sort of television
an appearance looks like an interview show. First I thought
it was like Steve Allen or something. But the guy's
name place says mister Daily, and I couldn't figure out
what show it was. But from nineteen sixty three, that's right. Yes,
so let's give that a lesson.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Actually, I haven't had a chance to talk to for
the show, but we had a great discussion about it.
I just asked one of the folks on the show,
Bob Beckers, well, what is What is Louis Armstrong going
to do? How is he going to disguise as voice
as always going way up?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
That's the way he sings.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Is is that the highest you could get? Well, I
don't know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Actually, I'm that it was high for you, but it
high for the rest of them, just about a lot
of Rickons.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
This is worth looking up on YouTube because without being
without being like experts in assessing someone's mental condition or
their level of intoxication, Louis Armstrong looks like he is
mildly amused by this guy, or maybe smoked some pot
(19:14):
before the show.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, the gauge, the gauge what he called it. In fact,
this clip is called Pops Loves His Pot because Pops
was another nickname, and apparently also Louis Armstrong called everybody
else Pops, which is kind of neat. Yeah, I think
that's cool. If I started calling everybody by my own nickname,
that'd be pretty presumptuous. Also kind of badass.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, he probably started it before it was his nickname
and people gave him that nickname.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
That's a good point. That's a good point, But.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, I don't think that's a way to get
ahead in life, you gotta be a Louis Armstrong for
that to work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Did you get a sense that this very white hosts
being a little bit of a dick?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You know, as we were watching a lot of these interviews.
One thing that bothered me and that we talked a
little bit of about off air, is that in this time,
many of the interviews that he has, especially with white interviewers,
are exercises in condescension, and they're consistently talking over him
(20:16):
and talking too much.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's strange. Yeah, it's not cool, it's gross because the
thing like, okay, so in the company of Louis Armstrong,
as African American artists who had crossover appeal, you know,
to a largely white audience, where people like Cab Callaway
Sure and Fat Swaller for example, they they all kind
(20:37):
of had in common that they came from this kind
of underground scene Louis Armstrong in New Orleans, like we
talked about the top of the show, but they managed
to break through and be very successful with white audiences.
But that also they kind of had to like what's
the word I'm looking for. I don't know if I
felt like they had they had to play by their
(21:00):
rules a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
They had to sort of bow and scrape a little bit.
And while this may have given them success or maybe
even to some degree sanitized them or made them less
dangerous to the very racist white community, it was contentious
and considered offensive in the black community in the States
(21:22):
at the time. And this is something we know now
deeply troubled many of these artists, Louis Armstrong included, because
he would have he would have people in the movement,
the civil rights movement accuse him of being and Uncle Tom.
The idea be that he was selling out his own
(21:44):
identity for some measure of personal profit from people who
would never respect him right, which is a shame because
once you see his letters and his correspondence, he did
have a public persona for sure, that's true. Everybody does. Yeah, no, no, no,
no doubt about it. But he was an activist. He
(22:05):
came to activism. In his letters, you can see him angry,
ferociously angry, and righteously fed up with the state of
race relations in America, as well as the policies toward marijuana.
His wife actually got arrested one time in nineteen fifty
(22:25):
four for carrying marijuana that was allegedly his.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah. It was like something in the neighborhood of like
fourteen grams. It was like a rolled up marijuana cigarette.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It was sounded like a grandpa a joint.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
It was in an eyeglass case and a couple of roaches.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, I call them half smoked joint.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And we have an excerpt because he wrote a letter
about this. He almost got banned from Hawaii for life, yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That was on Waikiki. Yeah, and this is a letter
to his then manager, who also I believe had ties
to the al Capone crime syndicate. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, that's a very strange part of it. So Joe Glasser,
it was his manager at the time. And because he
was so incensed about this huge what he called rigamaru regard.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, I love that, Matt Rigamarole, mind you rigamaroo riga marou.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Because he was so angry about this, he wrote to
his manager Joe And we won't read the whole letter,
but we have some choice excerpts here, and one of
our favorites was when he said, straight out, mister Glasser,
you must see to it that I have special permission
to smoke all the reefers that I want to when
I want, or I will just have to put this
(23:51):
horn down.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That is all. That is all. He refers to the
gauge as more of a medicine than a dope, he says,
but he's just fed up with the penalty surrounding it.
And this was not his first run in with the law.
He's actually kind of credited as the right word but
as being I've seen it written, is the first celebrity
arrested for marijuana possession, right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And he you know, he did have his addictions. I
believe he smoked three cigar sized blunts right a day,
eight day. Yeah, and that's that sounds like just a
maintenance thing, you know. He never had a drinking problem.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, he says he smoked the reefers instead because he
said there was no hangover, and you know, he had
he had a lot of reasons. He had a lot
of feelings about this stuff, right, and he was very
open and about about it in a way that you
would not expect one to be. But I guess even
in those days, if you get to a level of
that kind of sacred status, you know, as an American treasure,
(24:53):
you'd probably say what you want.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I mean, this is like Snoop Dogg Willie Nelson level
big time, and those are those are two very prominent
advocates of marijuana today.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So that first run in was in nineteen thirty where
he was hanging out with his drummer, a guy by
the name of Vic Burton, outside the Cotton Club in
Culver City, California. And lordy, lordy, Lordie, this quote is
a delight. I'm going to read this again, not going
to do Louis Armstrong voice. He says, Vic and I
were blasting this joint, having lots of laughs and feeling good,
(25:27):
enjoying each other's company. Just then two big healthy dicks
that means detectives came from behind a car nonchalantly and
said to us, well take the roach boyz yep.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And that that is a true statement. But as we
have seen, it did not discourage him one bit because
one thing Louis Armstrong had was dry.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
That's true. He did get put away for a handful
of days. He could have gotten six months. But he
and the drummer where I think find a thousand dollars
apiece in nineteen thirty, which is insane. Shall we inflation
calculator that bad boy.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes, let's one thousand dollars in nineteen thirty is worth
in twenty eighteen approximately. May have a drum roll, please, casey, Oh, it's.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Gonna be It's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Fourteen thousand, five hundred and ninety three dollars and eighty
sent mm. Whenever I read a fine of that sort,
you know what always drinds my gears the most.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's the it's the change. Yeah, come on, insult to injury.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Just add twenty cents, right, Why are you doing this?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, it's it's it's ridiculous. But like you said, it
did not diminish his love of the herb. He A
lot of these quotes are coming from excerpts from a
biography that I believe, Correct me if I'm wrong, but
I believe there was one biography where he talked very
openly about his love of marijuana and you know, his
(27:06):
belief in marijuana law reform very openly. But this manager,
that manager we talked about with the mob ties had
a lot of that stuff redacted pulled out because he
thought it would be a bad look, I guess for
his client. And Louis Armstrong swore that he would have
a sequel released that only contained the stuff about his
(27:29):
beloved gauge. But yeah, so he got out. They pulled
some strings. Some of the club owners, I guess in
California in the Los Angeles area got him out and
he returned to the bandstand post haste. And then he
said when he was performing on the bandstand as a
quote where he says, I laughed real hard when several
movie stars came up to the bandstand while we played
(27:51):
a dance set and told me when they heard about
me getting caught with marijuana, they thought marijuana was a
chick whoo boy. That really fractured me.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes, this is strange because you'll hear a lot of
marijuana advocates today and in more recent years describe Louis
Armstrong as one of the first public policy advocates for marijuana,
and granted, a lot of these outfits will be a
little biased, like you can read an article that takes
(28:21):
this stint on a website called guess what nol marijuana
dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Wow bye, someone had to snap up that url of right.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And what we also found in what we would be
remiss not to mention, is that later in life Armstrong
developed significant lung problems, and he died before he even
reached his seventieth birthday. You can find this in Louis Armstrong,
Genius and Drugs by Stanton Peel, a PhD, writing for
Psychology Today. The marijuana use had to have something to
(28:52):
do with.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Oh, of course, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no question about it.
And I want to be clear, we are certainly not
advocating the use of marija wanna. This is just an
interesting story and it's it's obviously part of the culture,
and especially when it comes to you know, creative types
and musicians. And clearly Louis Armstrong was a highly functional,
(29:15):
successful creative person and this was something he chose to do.
And you can't deny that it may have had an
impact on the music that he made.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Absolutely, Yeah, there was this idea that it opened up
people's improvisational chops. And Armstrong, when he writes about it,
also mentions that there was a bit of escapism, you know,
and it made it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Easier to.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Not feel like you lived in a country that was
constantly kicking the crap out of you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, and we and.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
We can say one of the reasons we're laughing so
much about this is because Louis Armstrong's personality shines through
so vibrantly and at times comedically in the interviews, in
his written works, And we didn't even mention the cartoonish
(30:11):
anti marijuana propaganda that was around in the twenties and thirties, right,
a lot of it which was race based, primarily discriminating
against people of color. So he's rebelling against an authoritarian effort,
which in principle is admirable.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Absolutely, And I'm just to clarify some of those quotes
of Louis Armstrong talking about his experiences with weed were
not from that original book which came out in nineteen
fifty four called Satchmo My Life in New Orleans, because
he did talk about it in those sessions, but his
(30:53):
manager did have those pulled out and that you cannot
find them. But it was near the end of his
life in nineteen seventy one he sat down with two biographers,
Max Jones and John Chilton, where he decided he was
going to quote tell it like it was. And this
comes from a fantastic article by Lisa Ruff from Lefley
called Lewis Armstrong and Cannabis, The Jazz Legends Lifelong Love
(31:18):
of the gauge, and when he sat down with these biographers,
he admitted that he did eventually have to put down
the Mary Jane right because the penalties were just too
steep for him to deal with. You know, he talks
about as it's a young man's game. You know you're
going to skirt the law and live life on the edge.
But you get older and it just stops being functional.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, and he's still. My favorite part about that quote
is that he's still found a playful way to refer
to the substance. You want to read this quote, it's
it's a delight, Sure it be an honor. Well that
was my life and I don't feel ashamed at all.
Mary Warner, Honey, you sure was good. Enjoyed your heap much,
but the price got a little too high to pay.
(32:04):
At first, you was a misdemeanor, but as the years
rolled on, you lost your misdue and got meaner and meaner.
Jail Houselee speaking, so bye bye, I'll have to put
you down, dearest, beautiful, beautiful sad.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
All at once.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's like Kurt Vonnegut is kind of writing, There's there's
one other thing I do want to point out. I
thought you would enjoy this, nol. It has little to
do with it has little to do with Barrijuaa, but
a lot to do with Louis Armstrong. He was an
amazing trumpet player, right, and he was an amazing singer.
(32:41):
He was a forthright advocate for marijuana. He was also
a laxative advocate. I'm sorry, a laxative advocate, Okay, yeah,
sort of like a like a John Harvey Kellogg kind
of guy. Uh, kind of hopefully not that into animals. Yeah,
(33:05):
but he was an advocate of losing weight through laxatives,
which is tremendously unhealthy. Nobody do it. But he was
such a proponent of it. People would ask him how
he lost so much weight because his weight would fluctuate. Yeah,
and he was very open about it. He was like,
I used laxatives. He pooped it all out, and he
would name a brand of it. He even wrote a
(33:26):
book called Lose Weight The Satchmo Way.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Was he sponsored did he have a was was he
sponsored by a what's a popular laxative? X lax that's
like a legacy brand?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Well, his initial favorite laxative was something called Pluto water.
Oh my god, it was banned in nineteen seventy one
because it contained lithium.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh boy, so not only did it make you poop
your brains out, it probably made you feel real mellow.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yes, he was so convinced that laxatives were a great
curative thing that he gave bottles of them to his
friends his presence, and he also, you know, he produced
flyers that depicted him sitting on a toilet smiling.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
He told the British family when he met them during
the nineteen fifty six Great Britain Tour about how awesome
laxatives were.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
True.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Story, that's pretty fascinating. But I just I wanted to
end on something a little little upbeat, because it is
a shame that he was driven, you know, to say
goodbye to things that he loved.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
It's true. And speaking of saying goodbye, Richard Nixon himself,
whether or not he served as Satchmo's drug mule, he
did have some very kind words to share. On the
day of his passing, that was July sixth, nineteen seventy one.
He says, Missus Nixon and I share the sorrow of
millions of Americans at the death of Louis Armstrong. One
(34:59):
of the art text of an American art form, a
free and individual spirit, and an artist of worldwide fame.
His great talents and magnificent spirit added richness and pleasure
to all our lives. And to steal a line from this,
really cool but by far the most off the mark
version of the story, but it's animated in this series
called Drawn and Recorded Louis Armstrong, Sachimo and Nixon, you
(35:22):
can check out on Spotify. At the very end, it
quotes this this statement from Nixon as well and ends
by saying that Richard Nixon also added richness and pleasure
to Louis Armstrong's life by smuggling his gage stash.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
And this is just touching on a single anecdote from
the strange and rich history of drugs and public policy
in the United States. You know, we can also recommend,
if you'd like to learn more about the history of marijuana,
specifically in the United States, that you check out our
friends over its stuff. You should know and check out
(36:02):
the article from NPR The Mysterious History of Marijuana by
Matt Thompson, which comes via code Switch.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
That's a that's a great show, really really good show.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And that's all for today, folks, thank you so much
for giving us a listener. As always, thanks to Casey
Pegram our super producer, big thanks. Maybe the first time
we mentioned on the show to Christopher hasiotis man. He
is a mensh This guy is our this This guy
is a top notch researcher who's been working with us
(36:34):
and we're hoping that one day we can cajole him
or you know, sweet talk him into peering on the show.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He seemed game. But yeah, we're collaborating with him on
research for new episodes from here on out, which is
really exciting. So look for some really cool fun topics
coming up, one of which is coming up next where
we talk about how a James Bond film essentially created
Ada de las Muertos tradition parade event festival in a
(37:06):
city where that wasn't a thing. So tune in check
it out.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes, and in the meantime, you can find us on Instagram,
you can find us on Facebook, you can find us
on Twitter. We'd love to hear from you. Also, drop
by Ridiculous Historians. I don't know if it'll be up
by the time this this comes out, but based on
a previous episode, one of you. Dear listeners started a
(37:29):
poll and the people have spoken, so I'm gonna have
to post that opuland picture.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I hope it's not underwhelming. It's it's from far away then,
how could it be? You can mainly see a tiny,
a tiny boy, a gigantic cat.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
But it'll be spoilers. Yeah, I can't wait to see it.
That's going to be really exciting. Do we thank Alex
Williams who composed our theme?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
You know what, even if we did, let's thank him again, right,
he deserves it.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Thanks Alex Williams who composed our theme, and most partly
thanks to you for listening to ano episod of Ridiculous History.
Can't wait to see you next time. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow ridiculous historians, Welcome to our classic episode for this week.
We like music, We like presidential history dancing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We also like to like dancing. We like it dance. Sure, No,
I'm sorry, I just music and dancing go hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Now there's Max Williams. You're Noel Brown. I've been bowler. Yeah, yeah,
we're here, are you right? You guys remember Richard Nixon?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, that guy was a bit of a pill. Huh,
don't think very finally, not great. Actually, when I think
of him, I think of the terrifying Richard Nixon masks
that were worn. I believe in the movie Point Break
there was a Ronald Reagan mask and a Richard Nixon
mass those groovy surfers used when they were like doing crimes.
I only think of Futurama. Also fair good, superior Nixon
(00:54):
in Futurama to the actual Nixon. But I'll tell you, though,
when you mentioned music, one thing that comes to mind
immediately is old Louis Armstrong, Old Satchmo blowing that horn
with those big old puffy cheeks. Excellent trumpet player and
really iconic gravelly singing voice, and apparently quite fond of
the weed.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yes, the marijuana, the canna bus right. This episode is
about how Richard Nixon may or may not have unwittingly
smuggled cannabis on behalf of Louis.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Armstrong roll that footage.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Oh man, oh man,
(02:04):
oh man. It's been a while. We are finally cool
enough cats that we can have a little bit of
intro music for today's episode, Friends and Neighbors. That was Muggles.
(02:29):
That's performed by Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And co Hi. My name is Ben, my name is Nola.
So we're doing a Harry Potter episode today, right, one
would think, one would think, but in fact we are
doing something that involves what some people would call magic. Yeah,
we're talking about the reefer right left, the jazz cigarette,
(02:53):
the gauge, the gauge which was mister Armstrong's personal favorite
slang for marijuana.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And we were we have had so much fun researching
this legend that we were worried our you know, our
better third and saving Grace. Super producer Casey Pegrim might
actually get tired of us. But while we while we
have them in the studio still, we are going to
(03:24):
take advantage of that precious time.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It's really cloudy and it's should we open a door?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
No, okay, don't don't engage with drugs, kids, don't engage
with the gauge. Yes, don't gauge, don't get you got there?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, we're here, we're here.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Oh. Man.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
But our research was strictly academic for this, absolutely, yeah,
one hundred percent. But man, this is a cool story.
It's a lot wrapped up and uh, part of it
is a bit of kind of an urban legend, apocryphal. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So we are exploring the life and times of one
of the great So someone that I really enjoy and
I think you do as well. Knowl that is Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Pops, Yes, Satchmo.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And Louis Armstrong is known and loved the world over.
He is one of those people you could rightly call
an icon.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
That's right. Born in nineteen hundred August fourth, to be precise,
in New Orleans, Louis as wella.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
He lied about his age though too. Oh he's he's
a very layered man.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Very much so cloaked in mystery. But one thing we
do know is true. He grew up in a very
tough neighborhood in New Orleans called the Battlefield. His father
left the family when he was just a little boy,
and he kind of had defend for himself taking ant jobs.
His mother apparently was only able to pay the bills
through sex work, and he had kind of a wild
(04:51):
upbringing in the court sort of ceed underbelly of New
Orleans included dance clubs and women of the evening, and
of course a lot of jazz musicians right right.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
His first exposure to music in a learning environment was
at the Fisk School for Boys when he was about
six years old. But he ended up putting in his
time when it came to listening to music at brothels
and dance halls, because he had a gig selling coal
for a nickel per bucket in these you know, in
(05:26):
these houses of prostitution in an area called Storyville. And
then as he was as he was making his rounds
delivering coal, he ran into these house musicians and he
ran into something called spasm bands.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, I don't know about spasm bands. Tell me more.
I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A spasm band is a musical group that plays Dixie Land,
traditional jazz, jug band or skiffle music.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Skiffle like, that's sort of what the Beatles were considered.
They were part of the skiffle scene. Apparently in the
UK the skiffle was sort of like a folk pop
kind of form of.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Music, right, Yeah, nailed it, nailed it, jazz, blues, folk
and American folk, known for some improvised instruments. So he,
as as you said, began hanging out there, spending serious
time in these halls, and it was pretty apparent early
on that he had a gift, a calling, a compulsion
(06:25):
to play music, to sing, and to play the horn.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And he was taken under the wing of a professor,
Peter Davis, who taught Armstrong to play the cornet, which
I believe is kind of a like a smaller trumpet.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A trumpet is a little bit longer and more slender
than a cornet, but in reality they both play the
same notes and they sound more or less the same.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I got so easy one to one transition from the
cornet to a trumpet.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you want to get nerdy about it, O course. Idea,
the difference is mainly the way the tubing of the
instrument flares. A cornet is more cone shaped or conical
than a trumpet.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So as a cornet kind of considered more bite sized portable.
I don't know, I don't see the point.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, let us know we are not a cornetician's.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, it's true. But I am fond of some hot jazz.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Ah, yes, hot jazz, which in its day would be
considered often as controversial.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Perhaps as the use of drugs and Louis Armstrong's jazz
career is worthy of not just an episode, but an
entire podcast. We just spent exploring this guy and exploring
the personal struggles that he endured. I have some great
Louis Armstrong facts at the end of this. But before
(07:44):
you and I go too far down the fanboy rabbit hole,
should we set the scene for today's encounter?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think we should, Ben, I think we should please
do the honors. Today's episode centers around an apocryphal tale.
I believe you weren't used that word earlier, Ben, A
pot full tale. Not good. It's fine, We're keeping it it. Yeah.
Where So Louis Armstrong during the Cold War, he was
(08:13):
made a US ambassador, a good will ambassador, excuse me.
He was sent abroad, as were many African American musicians
and actors and writers. I don't know, to preach equality.
I guess during the era of integration.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Well, yeah, so a good will ambassador isn't just relegated
to this period in time, like Angelina Jolie is a
good will ambassador, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
They're a person who advocates for They are person who
advocates typically for a country or maybe for a specific cause,
based on the fact that everyone knows who they are.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That's right. So Louis Armstrong had this distinction straight from
the US State Department, who actually also paid for or
in part financed a tour that he did in Europe
and Asia. And while there are a few versions of
this story that sort of change where he was coming from, uh,
the one common little thread is that Louis Armstrong was
(09:13):
at the airport on after getting off a plane from
from one of these trips, and he was led out
of line into a customs line.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which was unusual for it because, according to the story,
as a goodwill ambassador, he was traveling to different areas
of the world and never having to enter custom.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
They waved him on through. Sure, but he was supposedly
coming back from Japan. That's that's the most consistent version
of the story that I've read. And so, yeah, he's
in this line and he starts to sweat. Why is
he sweating? He's not. He's not sweating because of the
because of the sound of a hot trumpet.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Right, He's not sweating because of the heat in the airport.
He is sweating because his trumpet case contains more than
a beautiful musical instrument. He is, in our parlance today
writing dirty riding, dirty packing. Yeah, he has a gauge
on him. Yep, he's gauged up. Yeah, he's got his
(10:12):
muggles slaying for marijuana at the time. His left hand
cigarettes in a pretty substantial amount. Yeah, three pounds. Right,
that's what we hear with the story. And there's something
important we want you to be aware of. As we're
telling this story. You may hear us switching between different
versions and different sources.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Again, quite apocryphal, bordering on urban legend, very hard to
confirm or deny the story. But there are several versions
in Louis Armstrong biographies that are floating out there. So
we'll give you we'll give you the kind of the
Barmones version. So we got off the first class flight.
He's going into a customs line, and then who does
(10:56):
he see but Richard Nixon, who was on the way
to becoming president or serving as a vice president. Tricky
Dicky yep.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Himself the one of the men who would go on
to become a huge advocate of what we call the
drug war.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, the war on drugs, the.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
War on drugs, and so in a panic and thinking
quickly Louis Armstrong, who is talking with Nixon, who turns
out to be a huge.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Fan of well the way I've read it too, and
there's a couple of versions. But Nixon sees Louis and
comes running at him with open arms. I think he's
going to get a sweet press photo, y Armstrong Satchmo.
He says, he says trash mal doing so.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Louis Armstrong thinks this is a sign and Nixon's like, oh,
you know, one fan anything, don't help you, And he says, actually, yes,
you see, I'm I'm old. And this trumpet is heavy.
Do you think he could carry it for me?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Give me a hand. That was an amazing Louis Armstrong impression.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I feel like it would be racist for either of
us to attempt to absolute yes, but next to work
on Yeah, we could do we could do our muppet
level Nixon's back and forth. Write in and let us
know if you want us to do a show where
both of us are Richard Nixon. We're ridiculous at HowStuffWorks
dot com. Oh man, what if people write in, We'll
(12:25):
do it if only if the episode has nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
To do with Richard Nixon.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's fine, Okay, you're agreed to this, sure, all right.
So what happens when Armstrong asked him to give him
a hand.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Well, first of all, one version one. One difference in
various accounts is whether he was carrying one case or
two cases. I think he would make the most sense
for him to have been carrying two cases, because yeah,
three pounds of weed is not going to fit into
a single trumpet case.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Right, And then also asking someone to carry something for
you when you have nothing else to carry.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
See shady again. Several versions. The one that we're kind
of talking about here is Nixon demands that he handed
him his cases because he says, a good world ambassador
doesn't have to go through customs, and the vice president
of the United States will carry your suitcases, sash Ma.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And then Again, this story, depending on when you hear it,
describes a different point in Richard Nixon's career. But according
to the story, according to the legend, what happens is
with the maybe not the best of intentions, because he
clearly wanted the photo. The man who would later become
Richard Nixon, a very anti drug president. Yeah, carries marijuana
(13:41):
through customs for Louis Armstrong hands it back to Louis Armstrong,
who somehow must have been keeping a straight face through
the whole thing. And later Louis and some of his
accompanists will swear by this story. But the thing is,
depending on who you ask, the story differs in a
(14:04):
multitude of ways.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
First off, Armstrong was only about twelve years older than Nixon.
Because he got his he would tell people who was
born on August fourth, nineteen hundred, but it was more
like nineteen oh one, because it was a thirteen month
or so different.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, man, and that particular account is credited. This is
getting in a murky territory here, real someone named Miles
So Miles Davis. Oh sure, I don't know. It's hard
to say, but yeah, as it turns out, though, that
keyboardist that's mentioned in that version of the story never
played with Louis Armstrong, right, so yeah, there's shock full of.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Holes that there's no record of any session where they
played together. And so in that version he Armstrong was
not necessarily an ambassador. He was just on a good
will tour and he was going to I think they
were all on the same planet, and they were headed
to Moscow in this thing, So the directions and the locations.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Changed, that's right. And this is in what year are
we talking here?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
This particular the Moscow story would date it to nineteen
fifty nine, and that has its problems as well.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Right, But in general, like if we're looking at a
rough estimate for when this meeting was supposed to take place,
it would have been late fifties, early sixties, right, Yeah,
that's about right, Yeah, exactly. So the goodwill tours, I
think the part of it was about integration because a
lot of the people they sent on these tours were
African American luminaries, and it was meant, I think, to show, hey,
(15:40):
we're doing good work.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well because one of the tenets of the Soviet ideology
at the time was that communism provides much more equality
than capitalism. So this is sort of a foray against.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Exactly, and so it's also tied to the Cold War
as well, right.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, at least ideologically. And so this
story continues through some other iterations.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
The problem with the idea of the vice president of
the US taking a flight on official business to Moscow
in nineteen fifty nine is that there would be some
sort of record of it, right, well, sure, although it
is true that apparently in those days the vice president
would have taken commercial flights, which I thought was fascinating
big time.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I had no idea, Well, what a kick in the
pants man? Seriously, man, is the president hops on air
Force one and what do you just fist bump and
then say all right, I gotta go get in line
catch my flight. And customs, of course, was a lot
easier in those days.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Everything, I mean, yeah, yeah, Going to the airport today
just stresses me out so much it's not fun.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Further, there had only been three trips by jazz musicians
to Russia by nineteen seventy one, at least that are documented,
and Louis Armstrong was not one of those consitions.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So I'm leaning towards this is if this did happen?
Probably coming back from his I've seen this version of
the story enough times that it seems to stick. Coming
back from one of his tours in Asia in Japan. Yes,
this is one of those stories though, where it's it's
(17:35):
you want to believe it because it's just so funny
to think that Satchmo kind of put one over on
tricky Dick Nixon before he was even well known as
being such a vehement anti drug force. You know. But
can we talk a little bit about Satchmo's lifelong love
of the Mary Jane. Yeah, let's set it up with
a clip. What do you say? Yeah, so this is
(17:55):
a clip from Louis Armstrong on some sort of television
an appearance looks like an interview show. First I thought
it was like Steve Allen or something. But the guy's
name place says mister Daily, and I couldn't figure out
what show it was. But from nineteen sixty three, that's right. Yes,
so let's give that a lesson.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Actually, I haven't had a chance to talk to for
the show, but we had a great discussion about it.
I just asked one of the folks on the show,
Bob Beckers, well, what is What is Louis Armstrong going
to do? How is he going to disguise as voice
as always going way up?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
That's the way he sings.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Is is that the highest you could get? Well, I
don't know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Actually, I'm that it was high for you, but it
high for the rest of them, just about a lot
of Rickons.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
This is worth looking up on YouTube because without being
without being like experts in assessing someone's mental condition or
their level of intoxication, Louis Armstrong looks like he is
mildly amused by this guy, or maybe smoked some pot
(19:14):
before the show.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, the gauge, the gauge what he called it. In fact,
this clip is called Pops Loves His Pot because Pops
was another nickname, and apparently also Louis Armstrong called everybody
else Pops, which is kind of neat. Yeah, I think
that's cool. If I started calling everybody by my own nickname,
that'd be pretty presumptuous. Also kind of badass.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, he probably started it before it was his nickname
and people gave him that nickname.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
That's a good point. That's a good point, But.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, I don't think that's a way to get
ahead in life, you gotta be a Louis Armstrong for
that to work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Did you get a sense that this very white hosts
being a little bit of a dick?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
You know, as we were watching a lot of these interviews.
One thing that bothered me and that we talked a
little bit of about off air, is that in this time,
many of the interviews that he has, especially with white interviewers,
are exercises in condescension, and they're consistently talking over him
(20:16):
and talking too much.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's strange. Yeah, it's not cool, it's gross because the
thing like, okay, so in the company of Louis Armstrong,
as African American artists who had crossover appeal, you know,
to a largely white audience, where people like Cab Callaway
Sure and Fat Swaller for example, they they all kind
(20:37):
of had in common that they came from this kind
of underground scene Louis Armstrong in New Orleans, like we
talked about the top of the show, but they managed
to break through and be very successful with white audiences.
But that also they kind of had to like what's
the word I'm looking for. I don't know if I
felt like they had they had to play by their
(21:00):
rules a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
They had to sort of bow and scrape a little bit.
And while this may have given them success or maybe
even to some degree sanitized them or made them less
dangerous to the very racist white community, it was contentious
and considered offensive in the black community in the States
(21:22):
at the time. And this is something we know now
deeply troubled many of these artists, Louis Armstrong included, because
he would have he would have people in the movement,
the civil rights movement accuse him of being and Uncle Tom.
The idea be that he was selling out his own
(21:44):
identity for some measure of personal profit from people who
would never respect him right, which is a shame because
once you see his letters and his correspondence, he did
have a public persona for sure, that's true. Everybody does. Yeah, no, no, no,
no doubt about it. But he was an activist. He
(22:05):
came to activism. In his letters, you can see him angry,
ferociously angry, and righteously fed up with the state of
race relations in America, as well as the policies toward marijuana.
His wife actually got arrested one time in nineteen fifty
(22:25):
four for carrying marijuana that was allegedly his.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah. It was like something in the neighborhood of like
fourteen grams. It was like a rolled up marijuana cigarette.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It was sounded like a grandpa a joint.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
It was in an eyeglass case and a couple of roaches.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, I call them half smoked joint.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And we have an excerpt because he wrote a letter
about this. He almost got banned from Hawaii for life, yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That was on Waikiki. Yeah, and this is a letter
to his then manager, who also I believe had ties
to the al Capone crime syndicate. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, that's a very strange part of it. So Joe Glasser,
it was his manager at the time. And because he
was so incensed about this huge what he called rigamaru regard.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, I love that, Matt Rigamarole, mind you rigamaroo riga marou.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Because he was so angry about this, he wrote to
his manager Joe And we won't read the whole letter,
but we have some choice excerpts here, and one of
our favorites was when he said, straight out, mister Glasser,
you must see to it that I have special permission
to smoke all the reefers that I want to when
I want, or I will just have to put this
(23:51):
horn down.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That is all. That is all. He refers to the
gauge as more of a medicine than a dope, he says,
but he's just fed up with the penalty surrounding it.
And this was not his first run in with the law.
He's actually kind of credited as the right word but
as being I've seen it written, is the first celebrity
arrested for marijuana possession, right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And he you know, he did have his addictions. I
believe he smoked three cigar sized blunts right a day,
eight day. Yeah, and that's that sounds like just a
maintenance thing, you know. He never had a drinking problem.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, he says he smoked the reefers instead because he
said there was no hangover, and you know, he had
he had a lot of reasons. He had a lot
of feelings about this stuff, right, and he was very
open and about about it in a way that you
would not expect one to be. But I guess even
in those days, if you get to a level of
that kind of sacred status, you know, as an American treasure,
(24:53):
you'd probably say what you want.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I mean, this is like Snoop Dogg Willie Nelson level
big time, and those are those are two very prominent
advocates of marijuana today.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So that first run in was in nineteen thirty where
he was hanging out with his drummer, a guy by
the name of Vic Burton, outside the Cotton Club in
Culver City, California. And lordy, lordy, Lordie, this quote is
a delight. I'm going to read this again, not going
to do Louis Armstrong voice. He says, Vic and I
were blasting this joint, having lots of laughs and feeling good,
(25:27):
enjoying each other's company. Just then two big healthy dicks
that means detectives came from behind a car nonchalantly and
said to us, well take the roach boyz yep.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And that that is a true statement. But as we
have seen, it did not discourage him one bit because
one thing Louis Armstrong had was dry.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
That's true. He did get put away for a handful
of days. He could have gotten six months. But he
and the drummer where I think find a thousand dollars
apiece in nineteen thirty, which is insane. Shall we inflation
calculator that bad boy.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes, let's one thousand dollars in nineteen thirty is worth
in twenty eighteen approximately. May have a drum roll, please, casey, Oh, it's.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Gonna be It's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Fourteen thousand, five hundred and ninety three dollars and eighty
sent mm. Whenever I read a fine of that sort,
you know what always drinds my gears the most.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's the it's the change. Yeah, come on, insult to injury.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Just add twenty cents, right, Why are you doing this?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, it's it's it's ridiculous. But like you said, it
did not diminish his love of the herb. He A
lot of these quotes are coming from excerpts from a
biography that I believe, Correct me if I'm wrong, but
I believe there was one biography where he talked very
openly about his love of marijuana and you know, his
(27:06):
belief in marijuana law reform very openly. But this manager,
that manager we talked about with the mob ties had
a lot of that stuff redacted pulled out because he
thought it would be a bad look, I guess for
his client. And Louis Armstrong swore that he would have
a sequel released that only contained the stuff about his
(27:29):
beloved gauge. But yeah, so he got out. They pulled
some strings. Some of the club owners, I guess in
California in the Los Angeles area got him out and
he returned to the bandstand post haste. And then he
said when he was performing on the bandstand as a
quote where he says, I laughed real hard when several
movie stars came up to the bandstand while we played
(27:51):
a dance set and told me when they heard about
me getting caught with marijuana, they thought marijuana was a
chick whoo boy. That really fractured me.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yes, this is strange because you'll hear a lot of
marijuana advocates today and in more recent years describe Louis
Armstrong as one of the first public policy advocates for marijuana,
and granted, a lot of these outfits will be a
little biased, like you can read an article that takes
(28:21):
this stint on a website called guess what nol marijuana
dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Wow bye, someone had to snap up that url of right.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And what we also found in what we would be
remiss not to mention, is that later in life Armstrong
developed significant lung problems, and he died before he even
reached his seventieth birthday. You can find this in Louis Armstrong,
Genius and Drugs by Stanton Peel, a PhD, writing for
Psychology Today. The marijuana use had to have something to
(28:52):
do with.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Oh, of course, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no question about it.
And I want to be clear, we are certainly not
advocating the use of marija wanna. This is just an
interesting story and it's it's obviously part of the culture,
and especially when it comes to you know, creative types
and musicians. And clearly Louis Armstrong was a highly functional,
(29:15):
successful creative person and this was something he chose to do.
And you can't deny that it may have had an
impact on the music that he made.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Absolutely, Yeah, there was this idea that it opened up
people's improvisational chops. And Armstrong, when he writes about it,
also mentions that there was a bit of escapism, you know,
and it made it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Easier to.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Not feel like you lived in a country that was
constantly kicking the crap out of you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, and we and.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
We can say one of the reasons we're laughing so
much about this is because Louis Armstrong's personality shines through
so vibrantly and at times comedically in the interviews, in
his written works, And we didn't even mention the cartoonish
(30:11):
anti marijuana propaganda that was around in the twenties and thirties, right,
a lot of it which was race based, primarily discriminating
against people of color. So he's rebelling against an authoritarian effort,
which in principle is admirable.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Absolutely, And I'm just to clarify some of those quotes
of Louis Armstrong talking about his experiences with weed were
not from that original book which came out in nineteen
fifty four called Satchmo My Life in New Orleans, because
he did talk about it in those sessions, but his
(30:53):
manager did have those pulled out and that you cannot
find them. But it was near the end of his
life in nineteen seventy one he sat down with two biographers,
Max Jones and John Chilton, where he decided he was
going to quote tell it like it was. And this
comes from a fantastic article by Lisa Ruff from Lefley
called Lewis Armstrong and Cannabis, The Jazz Legends Lifelong Love
(31:18):
of the gauge, and when he sat down with these biographers,
he admitted that he did eventually have to put down
the Mary Jane right because the penalties were just too
steep for him to deal with. You know, he talks
about as it's a young man's game. You know you're
going to skirt the law and live life on the edge.
But you get older and it just stops being functional.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, and he's still. My favorite part about that quote
is that he's still found a playful way to refer
to the substance. You want to read this quote, it's
it's a delight, Sure it be an honor. Well that
was my life and I don't feel ashamed at all.
Mary Warner, Honey, you sure was good. Enjoyed your heap much,
but the price got a little too high to pay.
(32:04):
At first, you was a misdemeanor, but as the years
rolled on, you lost your misdue and got meaner and meaner.
Jail Houselee speaking, so bye bye, I'll have to put
you down, dearest, beautiful, beautiful sad.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
All at once.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's like Kurt Vonnegut is kind of writing, There's there's
one other thing I do want to point out. I
thought you would enjoy this, nol. It has little to
do with it has little to do with Barrijuaa, but
a lot to do with Louis Armstrong. He was an
amazing trumpet player, right, and he was an amazing singer.
(32:41):
He was a forthright advocate for marijuana. He was also
a laxative advocate. I'm sorry, a laxative advocate, Okay, yeah,
sort of like a like a John Harvey Kellogg kind
of guy. Uh, kind of hopefully not that into animals. Yeah,
(33:05):
but he was an advocate of losing weight through laxatives,
which is tremendously unhealthy. Nobody do it. But he was
such a proponent of it. People would ask him how
he lost so much weight because his weight would fluctuate. Yeah,
and he was very open about it. He was like,
I used laxatives. He pooped it all out, and he
would name a brand of it. He even wrote a
(33:26):
book called Lose Weight The Satchmo Way.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Was he sponsored did he have a was was he
sponsored by a what's a popular laxative? X lax that's
like a legacy brand?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Well, his initial favorite laxative was something called Pluto water.
Oh my god, it was banned in nineteen seventy one
because it contained lithium.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh boy, so not only did it make you poop
your brains out, it probably made you feel real mellow.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yes, he was so convinced that laxatives were a great
curative thing that he gave bottles of them to his
friends his presence, and he also, you know, he produced
flyers that depicted him sitting on a toilet smiling.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
He told the British family when he met them during
the nineteen fifty six Great Britain Tour about how awesome
laxatives were.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
True.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Story, that's pretty fascinating. But I just I wanted to
end on something a little little upbeat, because it is
a shame that he was driven, you know, to say
goodbye to things that he loved.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
It's true. And speaking of saying goodbye, Richard Nixon himself,
whether or not he served as Satchmo's drug mule, he
did have some very kind words to share. On the
day of his passing, that was July sixth, nineteen seventy one.
He says, Missus Nixon and I share the sorrow of
millions of Americans at the death of Louis Armstrong. One
(34:59):
of the art text of an American art form, a
free and individual spirit, and an artist of worldwide fame.
His great talents and magnificent spirit added richness and pleasure
to all our lives. And to steal a line from this,
really cool but by far the most off the mark
version of the story, but it's animated in this series
called Drawn and Recorded Louis Armstrong, Sachimo and Nixon, you
(35:22):
can check out on Spotify. At the very end, it
quotes this this statement from Nixon as well and ends
by saying that Richard Nixon also added richness and pleasure
to Louis Armstrong's life by smuggling his gage stash.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
And this is just touching on a single anecdote from
the strange and rich history of drugs and public policy
in the United States. You know, we can also recommend,
if you'd like to learn more about the history of marijuana,
specifically in the United States, that you check out our
friends over its stuff. You should know and check out
(36:02):
the article from NPR The Mysterious History of Marijuana by
Matt Thompson, which comes via code Switch.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
That's a that's a great show, really really good show.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And that's all for today, folks, thank you so much
for giving us a listener. As always, thanks to Casey
Pegram our super producer, big thanks. Maybe the first time
we mentioned on the show to Christopher hasiotis man. He
is a mensh This guy is our this This guy
is a top notch researcher who's been working with us
(36:34):
and we're hoping that one day we can cajole him
or you know, sweet talk him into peering on the show.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He seemed game. But yeah, we're collaborating with him on
research for new episodes from here on out, which is
really exciting. So look for some really cool fun topics
coming up, one of which is coming up next where
we talk about how a James Bond film essentially created
Ada de las Muertos tradition parade event festival in a
(37:06):
city where that wasn't a thing. So tune in check
it out.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes, and in the meantime, you can find us on Instagram,
you can find us on Facebook, you can find us
on Twitter. We'd love to hear from you. Also, drop
by Ridiculous Historians. I don't know if it'll be up
by the time this this comes out, but based on
a previous episode, one of you. Dear listeners started a
(37:29):
poll and the people have spoken, so I'm gonna have
to post that opuland picture.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I hope it's not underwhelming. It's it's from far away then,
how could it be? You can mainly see a tiny,
a tiny boy, a gigantic cat.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
But it'll be spoilers. Yeah, I can't wait to see it.
That's going to be really exciting. Do we thank Alex
Williams who composed our theme?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
You know what, even if we did, let's thank him again, right,
he deserves it.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Thanks Alex Williams who composed our theme, and most partly
thanks to you for listening to ano episod of Ridiculous History.
Can't wait to see you next time. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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