April 4, 2026 • 29 mins
In this week's Classic episode, the guys return to a strange, oft-overlooked aspect of the Civil War. From 1861 to 1865, the United States of America was a country divided. More than a century later, it remains America's bloodiest war. After the cessation of conflicts and the surrender of the Confederate army, General Robert E. Lee found himself constantly approached to endorse numerous different memorials, statues and other structures. There was just one problem -- he apparently hated them.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's classic episode. Fellow Ridiculous Historians. We
are as we record in the great metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia,
and Atlanta, Georgia, like a lot of the Southern United States,
has a bit of.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
A history to it.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, not the best history. From eighteen sixty one
to eighteen sixty five, the USA was participating in a
little something called the War between the States. More than
a century later, it remains America's bloodiest war, and it
happens right here, oh man, among other places. But you know,
(00:40):
it was a pretty pretty central location to the Civil War.
And after the conflict concluded and the Union one the
Confederate Army surrendered, General Robert E. Lee survived, and he
found himself constantly a pro getting all these cold calls
(01:02):
to endorse different memorials or statues or buildings and so on.
And here's the thing, he hated it. Yeah, let's find
out why.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio, Casey. Can we
(01:44):
get a little bit of a kind of a Gettysburg
vibe music, you know, like with the drums flute, there
we go.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I feel that cadence sounds like a nineties song. Like
Jumper by Third Eye Blind.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Or something in that from the centuries earlier. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
It's it's those marching drums that really give them feels up.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And speaking of feels, thanks for tuning in. We hope
that you are feeling great. Uh, this is ridiculous history.
My name is Ben, my name is Nolan, and the
man on the ones and twos as always give it
up for our super producer, Casey Pegram. Today's episode does
concern some heavy history that we we have to bring
(02:30):
into the story, but we we don't have to get
to too in the weeds about it. You've heard the
story a thousand thousand times, whether or not you live
in the US. It's a story of brother against brother,
North and South, a nation divided, the US Civil War? Noel,
(02:50):
how would you describe the US Civil War to someone
who had never heard of it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It was real, main spirited man. Brothers were fighting brothers.
Everyone was at each other throats. Is the North from
the South? And why can't we all just get along?
And wasn't any fun? Man? Wasn't any fun?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
From April twelfth, eighteen sixty one to April ninth, eighteen
sixty five, this nation was embroiled in what would later
become the most heavily documented research war in US history. Yeah,
that too, So I think all of those facts together
are are a pretty good high level look at at
(03:28):
this conflict. But the ramifications of the US Civil War
carry on in the United States today, not just in
the southern part of the continent, but in the policies
and the legislation created on a state and federal level.
The war created several larger than life historical figures, people
(03:54):
who were and are enormously influential here in twenty nineteen.
Abraham Lincoln, for instance, right, the guy who brought everybody
back together hell or high water. And today's episode is
about another one of those giants, a man named Robert E.
Lee or we can only imagine Bobby Lee to his friends.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, or maybe some people called him Eddie because his
middle name, the E is for Edward.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I foind out.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I know that was eating a lot of you up inside,
not knowing what that E stood for?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Was it ihorn?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So what do we know about Robert E. Lee?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, like, okay, so he was born January nineteenth of
eighteen oh seven, passed away October twelfth of eighteen seventy,
and he was a decorated general. He was born in
a plantation in Westmoreland County, Virginia, and he came from
a military family. His father's name was Major General Henry
Lee the third had a pretty dope nickname as it
(04:53):
with lighthorse Harry, and he was also the governor of Virginia.
And he was had Robert E. With his second wife,
Ann Hill Carter, and he was raised in this very
regimented military family, and he carried on that legacy with
(05:14):
a career in military engineering. His father actually had some
difficulties that he ended up in debtors prison due to
some financial troubles he had while doing business in the
West Indies. But Robert was left undeterred and he got
himself a pretty choice spot at the prestigious military academy
(05:34):
at West Points, where he graduated second in his class
in eighteen twenty nine. But it would be some time
before Lee actually ever saw battle. It wasn't until eighteen
forty six in the War with Mexico that he was
able to really get his feet, wet, his hands bloody,
(05:55):
whatever the euphemism you'd like to use under General Winfield,
Scott Brigade or whatever you want, regiments, I don't know.
He became a pretty well respected soldier for bravery, and
he came out of that situation with the rank of
colonel and then was appointed as a superintendent at West Point,
(06:18):
where he served from eighteen fifty two to eighteen fifty five.
But let's remember where this story starts. He was at
heart a Southern gentleman raised on a Southern plantation, and
was also a slave owner, and reports are that he
was quite cruel to his slaves. In fact, in a
biography brief biography on Battlefield dot org, the writer points
(06:42):
out that during his tenure as the superintendent, which is
like the head honcho of West Point, he would be
overseeing cadets who would serve on both sides of the
Civil War, both under him and in opposition to his forces,
because as we know, he went on to become the
general of the Confederate Forces, which were the forces that
(07:05):
supported slavery.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So, one thing that people forgot pretty quickly after the
close of the Civil War and Robert E. Lee's death
is that he was by no means a perfect man.
There are a lot of myths about lee that are
still circulating today, one of those being that he was
opposed to slavery. After the Civil War, he did attempt
(07:31):
to present himself as always having been opposed to slavery.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
In an interview.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Shortly after his surrender at Appomattox, he said that the
best men of the South have been eager to do
away with the abominable practice. In eighteen sixty six, he
testified before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction that he had
always been in favor of emancipation, gradual emancipation. However, he
owned or managed slaves for over thirty years in eighteen
(07:59):
sixty one, in April, he oversaw roughly two hundred individuals.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Not to mention that there were reports. You know, maybe
we haven't a hundred percent confirmation, but he wasn't a
particularly kind slave owner, that he may have been much
more on the cruel and brutal side.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
We give this just to lay out those facts. These
are very very important things. However, his personal or non
military life aside, he was known as one of the
finest officers in the US Army. In eighteen fifty nine,
he was called upon to suppress the raid at Harper's Ferry,
(08:42):
led by the abolitionist John Brown, and was so successful
that in eighteen sixty one, Abraham Lincoln offered him command
of the full Federal forces. Not only did he decline,
he resigned from the army when the state of Virginia
seceded from the Union on April seventeenth of the same year,
(09:02):
his reasoning being I cannot make war against my own people.
And he didn't just resign, he didn't go, you know,
hang out on a farm somewhere. Instead, he joined up
with the newly formed Confederate Army as a general. So
his first military engagement is at a place called Cheat Mountain, Virginia.
(09:25):
Well now it's West Virginia, but back then it was
just Cheap Mountain, Virginia on September eleventh, eighteen sixty one.
It was a victory for the Union, but he still
weathered the storm and was also a military advisor to
President Jefferson Davis until eighteen sixty two. And there are
(09:46):
so many fantastic stories, books, biographies, podcasts, research papers, and
so on written about the Civil War that we would
helpfully re for you to any one of those. Let's
fast forward to the end of the Civil War, because
(10:07):
this is when our story really begins to take shape.
So we said that the Civil War ended in eighteen
sixty five, right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, it's true because upon defeat, Robert E. Lee had
to or didn't have to, but he seemed to acquiesce
to swearing allegiance to the Union and to admitting defeat,
and to not being particularly sore sport about the whole
affair because he was, you know, in fact, a professional
military man, and he understood the rules of engagement and
(10:41):
he wasn't gonna pitch a fit about it, and he
kind of went quietly.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
On April ninth, eighteen sixty five, Lee surrendered the Confederate
Army to Ulysses S. Grant at the Appomattox Courthouse. This
ended the Civil War, I mean effectively, he went home
on parole, and his life when on for about five
years after the Civil Wars end, and he eventually became
(11:06):
president of Washington College right before his death on October twelfth,
in eighteen seventy. There's an interesting timeline here, right, So
he only lives about five years after the close of
the Civil War. And similar to the way that myths
sprang up about George Washington, you know, even while he
(11:29):
was alive and certainly immediately after his death. We see
the same thing in certain parts of American culture with
Robert E.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Lee.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
He was romanticized, he was memorialized. You could say people
in the South wanted to build statues to him. They
wanted to waive the stars and bars and talk about,
I don't know, the South rising again, right, Yeah, I
mean that's.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
What they said.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
It absolutely, but it ends up feeding into some pretty
toxic romanticizations of these ideas.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh yeah, let's have no illusions about that.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
It's bad stuff. And we will get into how that
plays into more contemporary history in just a little bit.
In an article on PBS dot org by Lisa and
I'm going to go ahead and really french this one
up Lisa Desjardins, which I may be overpronouncing it, but
I'd rather overpronounced than underpronounced. She mentions how Lee was
(12:26):
pretty clear about the way he felt about that kind
of romanticization well before his death, and that he stressed
this idea that it was very important for a country
that had been torn by war to move past it,
and that includes not memorializing it with any kind of
symbolism or militant monument remembrances things like that that would
(12:50):
continue to cause to sort of sow the seeds of separatism.
And there's a really great quote from him that you
think you can kind of take as faith face value.
Then we can kind of dissect it a little bit too, Ben,
Do you want to read that one?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
This quote comes from a piece of correspondence about a
proposed memorial at Gettysburg written in eighteen sixty nine. I
think it was not to keep open the souls of war,
but to follow the examples of those nations who were
endabled to obliterate the marks of civil straff, to commit
to oblivion little feelings in gender.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Very well spoken, sir. That's not me, that's Robert E.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Lee.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I found don't know where we got the audio.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I felt as though he floated right into the room. Yeah,
it's true. And that has led many to believe that
what he meant was any of these Confederate monuments were
counter to his idea of how it would be best
to deal with the fallout from a war like that,
that by having these romanticizations or any kind of these
(13:53):
big reminders steering you in the face, whatever side you
were on. It's not a good thing, and it would
continue to sow those seeds of division and hostility between
the winning and the losing sizes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, there's a great biography of Lee by a fellow
named Jonathan Horne, The Man Who Would Not Be Washington
fantastic title, and he points out that Lee himself, Roberty
Lee himself after the Civil War, in those five years
before his death, he opposed monuments, but specifically opposed Confederate
(14:26):
War monuments, and in his correspondence we have multiple documented
reasons for his opinion. So in one case he questions
the cost of a monument to Stonewall Jackson, and he
finds some other ways to approach this issue. But his
underlying prime objection to this is that we empower a
(14:52):
cause or an idea when we remember it. That's why
so many civilizations work so ardently in the past and
the modern day to erase things from your history books.
In his mind, the war had ended, the nation was
one again, and it needed to look forward to the
(15:13):
future rather than celebrating this social upheaval and then potentially
leading to further discord down the road.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, he see.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He puts it pretty eloquently in this discord that we
also have tape up.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated,
my conviction is that, however grateful it would be to
the feelings of the South, the attempt, in the present
condition of the country, would have the effect of retarding
instead of accelerating its accomplishment, of continuing, if not adding
(15:50):
to the difficulties under which the Southern people label. We
do want to point out there that he is using
a word that could be seen as offensive. He's in
the correct way, you know what I mean. He's meaning
to sty me the progress of the country.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, indeed, And there's this actually was so divisive it
made the news really recently because of the senseless and
bizarre and unfortunate attack for lack of a better term,
that happened in Charlottesville, Virginia in twenty seventeen, where in fact,
(16:25):
an alt right or a white supremacist group descended on
the small college town because of a proposal to pull
down a statue of General Robert E.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Lee.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And there was violence. A young woman was hit and
killed by a car, and it at the time it
was just utter chaos. It became a very divisive political issue.
Even before this event, it became a very divisive political issue,
the idea of should we erase these marks of the
past because of what they represent, which you know, you
(17:01):
could argue is racism, is division, is pro slavery attitudes.
Some Southerners, old school Southerners, say it's their heritage or represents,
you know, just the history of the South, and that
taking it down is disrespectful to them. So say what
you will. Our president had this to say about it,
(17:22):
sad to see the history and culture of our great
country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful
statues and monuments.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, no, I noticed you didn't do a Trump
voice for that, And I think that's I think that's
a good call, because I gotta tell you, I've been
looking around and I just cannot, for the life of me,
find a good impression of that guy, you know what
I mean, Like Alec Baldwin in one is not that great.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well, that's sort of what makes his funny, right, is
that it's like it's, yeah, it's so out of left
field that it just kind of is like cartoonish, as
you would say, right.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, even Stephen Colbert Love the guys just I don't know,
maybe it's a tough voice. They're the pros. Let know,
if you've seen a decent impression. And I'm not saying
anything further than that, it's just usually when someone's president,
there's like one person, often from Saturday Night Live, who
does the best impression of that president. And it looks
(18:14):
like we're still looking for one. No offense to any
Alec Baldwin fans in the house, but your point, your
point stands, Nolan. It goes back to what I was
saying at the top. We see these ramifications carry on
to the modern day. Faulkner was right when he said
the past is not over. It's not even passed. And
(18:36):
I'm paraphrasing there, but this is an important point I
believe now. Currently, as it stands, there's somewhere around seven
hundred and fifty monuments all told, across the US that
are their memorials for the Civil War, and that's according
to the Southern Poverty Law Center. People who want the
(19:00):
removed say that the continued presence of the monuments confers
undue dignity on a faction that fought to preserve slavery
and white supremacy, So they agree with Roberty Lee, but
perhaps for different reasons.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, and not to mention that. In August of twenty seventeen,
PBS News Hour and NPR an Emerist poll found that
sixty two percent of people responding to the pole thought
that monuments such as this should stay in place as
historical symbols.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So it is a.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Tricky argument because on the one hand, it's a form
of revisionist history. On the other hand, you know, real
estate is scarce, maybe we should devote it to more
positive things, you know what I mean, like as opposed
to something that represents things that are painful to others
who have family members that possibly even lived through it
or were connected to it more directly.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And one thing that a lot of people miss when
they hear the headline Roberty Lee opposed Confederate memorials is
that he also opposed Civil War memorials in general. He
turned down the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association back in eighteen
sixty nine. He really wanted the battlefields to be erased,
(20:14):
to turn into farms, to turn into towns and other
peaceful areas of the nation, rather than memorializing them. He
saw it as a way to speed reconciliation. So it's
not as if he was wholly repentant, you know what
I mean, Nor was he penitent. He said all of
(20:36):
the memorials would be better if they were left unbuilt.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
That's right, yep, for sure. And this is one of
those quotes, the original one that we said about, you know,
the sores of division or whatever, that you can very
easily take out of context and use to support arguments
on either side.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right, And this is where our hal draws to a close.
But we didn't want to end on too somber a
note because there is a very specific type of unorthodox
Confederate memorial that will never be removed from the US
(21:18):
because it doesn't exist in the US. We were talking
about the Confederados, the ten thousand to twenty thousand Confederate
American refugees who fled to Brazil, mainly in South Paulo,
and then lived reproduced, had descendants. They founded the City
(21:38):
Americana Brazil. We did this on previous episodes, totally.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, it was that obsession with the Confederate South in
the very same way that they romanticize it in an
almost weird kind of like alternate reality. Man in the
High Castle, fictionalized kind of way, as though if they
had won the war, what it would be like. That's
a weird one.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And you can see the residents of Americana Sal Paulo
talking about how they how much they enjoy the festival
they hold every year, and how it's for them not
about commemorating a regime, right, it's not about commemorating racism
or slavery year, all the things tied to the Civil War.
(22:19):
It's just for them part of their culture. Very interesting town.
So if you've ever been there, check it out and
let us know what you find.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And you know in fact, snopes dot com, the famous
fact checking site, decided to weigh in on this as well,
with the question was Robert E. Lee opposed to Confederate monuments?
And they classify it as a mixture of true and false,
with the truth being supporting the validity of those quotes
(22:50):
that he expressed opposition to Civil War monuments memorials, including
the Stonewall Jackson one specifically. But what isn't clear is
the breadth of this position. His opposition to Confederate monuments
was probably more pronounced than his opposition towards Civil War
(23:12):
monuments in general.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
But it was still against against them overall.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That's right, that's right, but it is one of those
mixed mixed snoops responses. And then the continuation of the
President Trump's quote from earlier. The tweet was this, he says,
you can't change history, but you can learn from it.
Robert E. Lee Sonwell Jackson, who's next? Washington? Jefferson? So foolish. Also,
(23:40):
the beauty that is being taken out of our cities,
towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able
to be completely replaced. So we can see where where
our boy Donnie Trump falls in that debate.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I'd also like to hear from you, fellow ridiculous historians.
Where where do you fall in this debate? And speak
of hearing from you, what do you guys say we
do a little listener mail.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think that's a smashing idea.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Did you see that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
One listener wrote in and said that the listener mail
sound effect fills them with abject terror?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I saw that?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah, interesting?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Was that on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It was on Facebook?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think you can you can see what we're talking
about if you're joined forces with us on Facebook at
ridiculous historians. Just getting that plug out of the way
right now.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So what do we got? You got you got any
hot takes?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I got one from Hannah says Hello. I was recently
listening to you or when West Virginia begged for foreign
aid from the USSR, and I was inspired to inquire
about a podcast on for Gotonia. For Gotonia is a
west central section of Illinois that was forgotten when highways
were expanded west and there was an attempt to secede
from the United States. This section of Illinois felt cut
(24:54):
off and decided to bring attention to it with this
major move. I have lived in this area my whole life, huh,
and it amazes me how few people know of it.
Please consider it for a future podcast. Thanks Hannah. Consider
it considered, Hannah, Yes, consider it considered. I had not
heard of Forgottonia before receiving your letter, Hannah, and I
(25:15):
think it's fascinating. I I actually I've been reading a
lot about it off air, and I hope that there
are license plates.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I hope that there are stickers. I hope that you can,
you know, send mail with Forgotonia stamps.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But I look forward to learning.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
More and before we uh forget Tonia this segment, let's
have Let's have one more listener mail.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Rebecca C.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Writes to us with an email entitled Ordeal by Cake. Hello,
says Rebecca. I have been listening to this podcast since
it started and it has become one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Ah. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
In parentheses, she says, I love the quizter. We have
complicated feelings there. The war began by the dog was timely,
as it came up in trivia last night. Or the
guy who sets the questions also listened to the show.
When you discussed undergoing trials, I was reminded of Ordeal
by Cake, where the person would have to eat a
(26:17):
dry cake without choking after swearing to something, the idea
being that if you were lying, guilt would stick in
your throat. Just a thought it might leave less scars
than other ordeals. Rebecca, thanks for writing. I had never
heard of the Trial by Cake. The closest I remember
hearing is that old stand up bit about cake or
(26:38):
death right and Eddie Izzard bit. I just got confirmed
off air by Casey, but I don't know. I would
give it a try. It sounds kind of like an
old school version of the saltine Challenge.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Is that where you eat a bunch of saltines? Is
it like the cinnamon Challenge?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah? Pretty much so.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I don't know if that's a way to set legal precedent,
but I'd be interested in trying it. I wonder if
we could institute. Do you think HR would let us
get away with that?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, I say we What is it better to
ask for forgiveness than permission?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Especially when Cake is involved?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Oh man, sign me up. I'll try anything once, especially
if Cake is involved.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So thank you so much, Anna, thank you, Rebecca, and
thank you for listening. This concludes listener mail, but not
our show. Tune in because we have more ridiculous stuff
on the way as always in the meantime. You can
learn more about ridiculous, bizarre, strange exploits throughout the story
(27:38):
of human civilization on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, our Instagram,
or our Twitter. You can also follow our own personal
adventures on Instagram where I am at Ben Bowling.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I am at Embryonic Insider. Big Thanks to super producer
Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme research associate
Gabe Lozier, and of course I think we're due for
a Christopher Hasiotis appearance and possibly a creepy drop in
from our arch nemesis, the Quist Jonathan Strickland.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I have PTSD my friend podcast Drama Traumatic Stress Disorder,
because this is gonna sound weird, But there are I
know that it sounds like a bit sometimes, but there
are genuinely times when we don't know that he's coming.
It's it's strange. It's it's a bizarre situation and we've
(28:29):
just been rolling with it.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's also weird when he just kind of drops down
from the ceiling and then his head turns around three
hundred and sixty degrees and he kind of makes a
weird cackling sound. This is a very guttural, like from
the throat kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, this is not a bit. Sometimes he doesn't even
make it to the mic. He just drops in exorss
style and then like skitters back up into the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
It is quite traumatic for all concerned. But at the
same time, I missed the little guy.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know, I'd like a statue. I gotta tell you,
I was conflicted with this because I see Robert E.
Lee's point about not wanting to memorialize this, this intense,
divisive period in time, But also, wouldn't it be kind
of cool to have a statue of your of yourself?
(29:14):
I mean, so it's such a Kanye West move, you know, Casey, would.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You get a statue of yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Probably not, someone else would have to build it right
at the very least.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I'll tell you what you will get.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, maybe not a statue, but some kind of apparel
I think may be forthcoming.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Oh oh oh.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Stay tuned for more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to this week's classic episode. Fellow Ridiculous Historians. We
are as we record in the great metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia,
and Atlanta, Georgia, like a lot of the Southern United States,
has a bit of.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
A history to it.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yeah, yeah, not the best history. From eighteen sixty one
to eighteen sixty five, the USA was participating in a
little something called the War between the States. More than
a century later, it remains America's bloodiest war, and it
happens right here, oh man, among other places. But you know,
(00:40):
it was a pretty pretty central location to the Civil War.
And after the conflict concluded and the Union one the
Confederate Army surrendered, General Robert E. Lee survived, and he
found himself constantly a pro getting all these cold calls
(01:02):
to endorse different memorials or statues or buildings and so on.
And here's the thing, he hated it. Yeah, let's find
out why.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio, Casey. Can we
(01:44):
get a little bit of a kind of a Gettysburg
vibe music, you know, like with the drums flute, there
we go.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I feel that cadence sounds like a nineties song. Like
Jumper by Third Eye Blind.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Or something in that from the centuries earlier. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
It's it's those marching drums that really give them feels up.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And speaking of feels, thanks for tuning in. We hope
that you are feeling great. Uh, this is ridiculous history.
My name is Ben, my name is Nolan, and the
man on the ones and twos as always give it
up for our super producer, Casey Pegram. Today's episode does
concern some heavy history that we we have to bring
(02:30):
into the story, but we we don't have to get
to too in the weeds about it. You've heard the
story a thousand thousand times, whether or not you live
in the US. It's a story of brother against brother,
North and South, a nation divided, the US Civil War? Noel,
(02:50):
how would you describe the US Civil War to someone
who had never heard of it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It was real, main spirited man. Brothers were fighting brothers.
Everyone was at each other throats. Is the North from
the South? And why can't we all just get along?
And wasn't any fun? Man? Wasn't any fun?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
From April twelfth, eighteen sixty one to April ninth, eighteen
sixty five, this nation was embroiled in what would later
become the most heavily documented research war in US history. Yeah,
that too, So I think all of those facts together
are are a pretty good high level look at at
(03:28):
this conflict. But the ramifications of the US Civil War
carry on in the United States today, not just in
the southern part of the continent, but in the policies
and the legislation created on a state and federal level.
The war created several larger than life historical figures, people
(03:54):
who were and are enormously influential here in twenty nineteen.
Abraham Lincoln, for instance, right, the guy who brought everybody
back together hell or high water. And today's episode is
about another one of those giants, a man named Robert E.
Lee or we can only imagine Bobby Lee to his friends.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, or maybe some people called him Eddie because his
middle name, the E is for Edward.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I foind out.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I know that was eating a lot of you up inside,
not knowing what that E stood for?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Was it ihorn?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So what do we know about Robert E. Lee?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, like, okay, so he was born January nineteenth of
eighteen oh seven, passed away October twelfth of eighteen seventy,
and he was a decorated general. He was born in
a plantation in Westmoreland County, Virginia, and he came from
a military family. His father's name was Major General Henry
Lee the third had a pretty dope nickname as it
(04:53):
with lighthorse Harry, and he was also the governor of Virginia.
And he was had Robert E. With his second wife,
Ann Hill Carter, and he was raised in this very
regimented military family, and he carried on that legacy with
(05:14):
a career in military engineering. His father actually had some
difficulties that he ended up in debtors prison due to
some financial troubles he had while doing business in the
West Indies. But Robert was left undeterred and he got
himself a pretty choice spot at the prestigious military academy
(05:34):
at West Points, where he graduated second in his class
in eighteen twenty nine. But it would be some time
before Lee actually ever saw battle. It wasn't until eighteen
forty six in the War with Mexico that he was
able to really get his feet, wet, his hands bloody,
(05:55):
whatever the euphemism you'd like to use under General Winfield,
Scott Brigade or whatever you want, regiments, I don't know.
He became a pretty well respected soldier for bravery, and
he came out of that situation with the rank of
colonel and then was appointed as a superintendent at West Point,
(06:18):
where he served from eighteen fifty two to eighteen fifty five.
But let's remember where this story starts. He was at
heart a Southern gentleman raised on a Southern plantation, and
was also a slave owner, and reports are that he
was quite cruel to his slaves. In fact, in a
biography brief biography on Battlefield dot org, the writer points
(06:42):
out that during his tenure as the superintendent, which is
like the head honcho of West Point, he would be
overseeing cadets who would serve on both sides of the
Civil War, both under him and in opposition to his forces,
because as we know, he went on to become the
general of the Confederate Forces, which were the forces that
(07:05):
supported slavery.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So, one thing that people forgot pretty quickly after the
close of the Civil War and Robert E. Lee's death
is that he was by no means a perfect man.
There are a lot of myths about lee that are
still circulating today, one of those being that he was
opposed to slavery. After the Civil War, he did attempt
(07:31):
to present himself as always having been opposed to slavery.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
In an interview.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Shortly after his surrender at Appomattox, he said that the
best men of the South have been eager to do
away with the abominable practice. In eighteen sixty six, he
testified before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction that he had
always been in favor of emancipation, gradual emancipation. However, he
owned or managed slaves for over thirty years in eighteen
(07:59):
sixty one, in April, he oversaw roughly two hundred individuals.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Not to mention that there were reports. You know, maybe
we haven't a hundred percent confirmation, but he wasn't a
particularly kind slave owner, that he may have been much
more on the cruel and brutal side.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
We give this just to lay out those facts. These
are very very important things. However, his personal or non
military life aside, he was known as one of the
finest officers in the US Army. In eighteen fifty nine,
he was called upon to suppress the raid at Harper's Ferry,
(08:42):
led by the abolitionist John Brown, and was so successful
that in eighteen sixty one, Abraham Lincoln offered him command
of the full Federal forces. Not only did he decline,
he resigned from the army when the state of Virginia
seceded from the Union on April seventeenth of the same year,
(09:02):
his reasoning being I cannot make war against my own people.
And he didn't just resign, he didn't go, you know,
hang out on a farm somewhere. Instead, he joined up
with the newly formed Confederate Army as a general. So
his first military engagement is at a place called Cheat Mountain, Virginia.
(09:25):
Well now it's West Virginia, but back then it was
just Cheap Mountain, Virginia on September eleventh, eighteen sixty one.
It was a victory for the Union, but he still
weathered the storm and was also a military advisor to
President Jefferson Davis until eighteen sixty two. And there are
(09:46):
so many fantastic stories, books, biographies, podcasts, research papers, and
so on written about the Civil War that we would
helpfully re for you to any one of those. Let's
fast forward to the end of the Civil War, because
(10:07):
this is when our story really begins to take shape.
So we said that the Civil War ended in eighteen
sixty five, right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, it's true because upon defeat, Robert E. Lee had
to or didn't have to, but he seemed to acquiesce
to swearing allegiance to the Union and to admitting defeat,
and to not being particularly sore sport about the whole
affair because he was, you know, in fact, a professional
military man, and he understood the rules of engagement and
(10:41):
he wasn't gonna pitch a fit about it, and he
kind of went quietly.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
On April ninth, eighteen sixty five, Lee surrendered the Confederate
Army to Ulysses S. Grant at the Appomattox Courthouse. This
ended the Civil War, I mean effectively, he went home
on parole, and his life when on for about five
years after the Civil Wars end, and he eventually became
(11:06):
president of Washington College right before his death on October twelfth,
in eighteen seventy. There's an interesting timeline here, right, So
he only lives about five years after the close of
the Civil War. And similar to the way that myths
sprang up about George Washington, you know, even while he
(11:29):
was alive and certainly immediately after his death. We see
the same thing in certain parts of American culture with
Robert E.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Lee.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
He was romanticized, he was memorialized. You could say people
in the South wanted to build statues to him. They
wanted to waive the stars and bars and talk about,
I don't know, the South rising again, right, Yeah, I
mean that's.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
What they said.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
It absolutely, but it ends up feeding into some pretty
toxic romanticizations of these ideas.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh yeah, let's have no illusions about that.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
It's bad stuff. And we will get into how that
plays into more contemporary history in just a little bit.
In an article on PBS dot org by Lisa and
I'm going to go ahead and really french this one
up Lisa Desjardins, which I may be overpronouncing it, but
I'd rather overpronounced than underpronounced. She mentions how Lee was
(12:26):
pretty clear about the way he felt about that kind
of romanticization well before his death, and that he stressed
this idea that it was very important for a country
that had been torn by war to move past it,
and that includes not memorializing it with any kind of
symbolism or militant monument remembrances things like that that would
(12:50):
continue to cause to sort of sow the seeds of separatism.
And there's a really great quote from him that you
think you can kind of take as faith face value.
Then we can kind of dissect it a little bit too, Ben,
Do you want to read that one?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
This quote comes from a piece of correspondence about a
proposed memorial at Gettysburg written in eighteen sixty nine. I
think it was not to keep open the souls of war,
but to follow the examples of those nations who were
endabled to obliterate the marks of civil straff, to commit
to oblivion little feelings in gender.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Very well spoken, sir. That's not me, that's Robert E.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Lee.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I found don't know where we got the audio.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I felt as though he floated right into the room. Yeah,
it's true. And that has led many to believe that
what he meant was any of these Confederate monuments were
counter to his idea of how it would be best
to deal with the fallout from a war like that,
that by having these romanticizations or any kind of these
(13:53):
big reminders steering you in the face, whatever side you
were on. It's not a good thing, and it would
continue to sow those seeds of division and hostility between
the winning and the losing sizes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, there's a great biography of Lee by a fellow
named Jonathan Horne, The Man Who Would Not Be Washington
fantastic title, and he points out that Lee himself, Roberty
Lee himself after the Civil War, in those five years
before his death, he opposed monuments, but specifically opposed Confederate
(14:26):
War monuments, and in his correspondence we have multiple documented
reasons for his opinion. So in one case he questions
the cost of a monument to Stonewall Jackson, and he
finds some other ways to approach this issue. But his
underlying prime objection to this is that we empower a
(14:52):
cause or an idea when we remember it. That's why
so many civilizations work so ardently in the past and
the modern day to erase things from your history books.
In his mind, the war had ended, the nation was
one again, and it needed to look forward to the
(15:13):
future rather than celebrating this social upheaval and then potentially
leading to further discord down the road.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, he see.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He puts it pretty eloquently in this discord that we
also have tape up.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated,
my conviction is that, however grateful it would be to
the feelings of the South, the attempt, in the present
condition of the country, would have the effect of retarding
instead of accelerating its accomplishment, of continuing, if not adding
(15:50):
to the difficulties under which the Southern people label. We
do want to point out there that he is using
a word that could be seen as offensive. He's in
the correct way, you know what I mean. He's meaning
to sty me the progress of the country.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, indeed, And there's this actually was so divisive it
made the news really recently because of the senseless and
bizarre and unfortunate attack for lack of a better term,
that happened in Charlottesville, Virginia in twenty seventeen, where in fact,
(16:25):
an alt right or a white supremacist group descended on
the small college town because of a proposal to pull
down a statue of General Robert E.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Lee.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And there was violence. A young woman was hit and
killed by a car, and it at the time it
was just utter chaos. It became a very divisive political issue.
Even before this event, it became a very divisive political issue,
the idea of should we erase these marks of the
past because of what they represent, which you know, you
(17:01):
could argue is racism, is division, is pro slavery attitudes.
Some Southerners, old school Southerners, say it's their heritage or represents,
you know, just the history of the South, and that
taking it down is disrespectful to them. So say what
you will. Our president had this to say about it,
(17:22):
sad to see the history and culture of our great
country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful
statues and monuments.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, no, I noticed you didn't do a Trump
voice for that, And I think that's I think that's
a good call, because I gotta tell you, I've been
looking around and I just cannot, for the life of me,
find a good impression of that guy, you know what
I mean, Like Alec Baldwin in one is not that great.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well, that's sort of what makes his funny, right, is
that it's like it's, yeah, it's so out of left
field that it just kind of is like cartoonish, as
you would say, right.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, even Stephen Colbert Love the guys just I don't know,
maybe it's a tough voice. They're the pros. Let know,
if you've seen a decent impression. And I'm not saying
anything further than that, it's just usually when someone's president,
there's like one person, often from Saturday Night Live, who
does the best impression of that president. And it looks
(18:14):
like we're still looking for one. No offense to any
Alec Baldwin fans in the house, but your point, your
point stands, Nolan. It goes back to what I was
saying at the top. We see these ramifications carry on
to the modern day. Faulkner was right when he said
the past is not over. It's not even passed. And
(18:36):
I'm paraphrasing there, but this is an important point I
believe now. Currently, as it stands, there's somewhere around seven
hundred and fifty monuments all told, across the US that
are their memorials for the Civil War, and that's according
to the Southern Poverty Law Center. People who want the
(19:00):
removed say that the continued presence of the monuments confers
undue dignity on a faction that fought to preserve slavery
and white supremacy, So they agree with Roberty Lee, but
perhaps for different reasons.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, and not to mention that. In August of twenty seventeen,
PBS News Hour and NPR an Emerist poll found that
sixty two percent of people responding to the pole thought
that monuments such as this should stay in place as
historical symbols.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So it is a.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Tricky argument because on the one hand, it's a form
of revisionist history. On the other hand, you know, real
estate is scarce, maybe we should devote it to more
positive things, you know what I mean, like as opposed
to something that represents things that are painful to others
who have family members that possibly even lived through it
or were connected to it more directly.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And one thing that a lot of people miss when
they hear the headline Roberty Lee opposed Confederate memorials is
that he also opposed Civil War memorials in general. He
turned down the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association back in eighteen
sixty nine. He really wanted the battlefields to be erased,
(20:14):
to turn into farms, to turn into towns and other
peaceful areas of the nation, rather than memorializing them. He
saw it as a way to speed reconciliation. So it's
not as if he was wholly repentant, you know what
I mean, Nor was he penitent. He said all of
(20:36):
the memorials would be better if they were left unbuilt.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
That's right, yep, for sure. And this is one of
those quotes, the original one that we said about, you know,
the sores of division or whatever, that you can very
easily take out of context and use to support arguments
on either side.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right, And this is where our hal draws to a close.
But we didn't want to end on too somber a
note because there is a very specific type of unorthodox
Confederate memorial that will never be removed from the US
(21:18):
because it doesn't exist in the US. We were talking
about the Confederados, the ten thousand to twenty thousand Confederate
American refugees who fled to Brazil, mainly in South Paulo,
and then lived reproduced, had descendants. They founded the City
(21:38):
Americana Brazil. We did this on previous episodes, totally.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, it was that obsession with the Confederate South in
the very same way that they romanticize it in an
almost weird kind of like alternate reality. Man in the
High Castle, fictionalized kind of way, as though if they
had won the war, what it would be like. That's
a weird one.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And you can see the residents of Americana Sal Paulo
talking about how they how much they enjoy the festival
they hold every year, and how it's for them not
about commemorating a regime, right, it's not about commemorating racism
or slavery year, all the things tied to the Civil War.
(22:19):
It's just for them part of their culture. Very interesting town.
So if you've ever been there, check it out and
let us know what you find.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And you know in fact, snopes dot com, the famous
fact checking site, decided to weigh in on this as well,
with the question was Robert E. Lee opposed to Confederate monuments?
And they classify it as a mixture of true and false,
with the truth being supporting the validity of those quotes
(22:50):
that he expressed opposition to Civil War monuments memorials, including
the Stonewall Jackson one specifically. But what isn't clear is
the breadth of this position. His opposition to Confederate monuments
was probably more pronounced than his opposition towards Civil War
(23:12):
monuments in general.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
But it was still against against them overall.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That's right, that's right, but it is one of those
mixed mixed snoops responses. And then the continuation of the
President Trump's quote from earlier. The tweet was this, he says,
you can't change history, but you can learn from it.
Robert E. Lee Sonwell Jackson, who's next? Washington? Jefferson? So foolish. Also,
(23:40):
the beauty that is being taken out of our cities,
towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able
to be completely replaced. So we can see where where
our boy Donnie Trump falls in that debate.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I'd also like to hear from you, fellow ridiculous historians.
Where where do you fall in this debate? And speak
of hearing from you, what do you guys say we
do a little listener mail.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think that's a smashing idea.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Did you see that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
One listener wrote in and said that the listener mail
sound effect fills them with abject terror?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I saw that?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah, interesting?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Was that on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It was on Facebook?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think you can you can see what we're talking
about if you're joined forces with us on Facebook at
ridiculous historians. Just getting that plug out of the way
right now.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So what do we got? You got you got any
hot takes?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I got one from Hannah says Hello. I was recently
listening to you or when West Virginia begged for foreign
aid from the USSR, and I was inspired to inquire
about a podcast on for Gotonia. For Gotonia is a
west central section of Illinois that was forgotten when highways
were expanded west and there was an attempt to secede
from the United States. This section of Illinois felt cut
(24:54):
off and decided to bring attention to it with this
major move. I have lived in this area my whole life, huh,
and it amazes me how few people know of it.
Please consider it for a future podcast. Thanks Hannah. Consider
it considered, Hannah, Yes, consider it considered. I had not
heard of Forgottonia before receiving your letter, Hannah, and I
(25:15):
think it's fascinating. I I actually I've been reading a
lot about it off air, and I hope that there
are license plates.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I hope that there are stickers. I hope that you can,
you know, send mail with Forgotonia stamps.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But I look forward to learning.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
More and before we uh forget Tonia this segment, let's
have Let's have one more listener mail.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Rebecca C.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Writes to us with an email entitled Ordeal by Cake. Hello,
says Rebecca. I have been listening to this podcast since
it started and it has become one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Ah. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
In parentheses, she says, I love the quizter. We have
complicated feelings there. The war began by the dog was timely,
as it came up in trivia last night. Or the
guy who sets the questions also listened to the show.
When you discussed undergoing trials, I was reminded of Ordeal
by Cake, where the person would have to eat a
(26:17):
dry cake without choking after swearing to something, the idea
being that if you were lying, guilt would stick in
your throat. Just a thought it might leave less scars
than other ordeals. Rebecca, thanks for writing. I had never
heard of the Trial by Cake. The closest I remember
hearing is that old stand up bit about cake or
(26:38):
death right and Eddie Izzard bit. I just got confirmed
off air by Casey, but I don't know. I would
give it a try. It sounds kind of like an
old school version of the saltine Challenge.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Is that where you eat a bunch of saltines? Is
it like the cinnamon Challenge?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah? Pretty much so.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I don't know if that's a way to set legal precedent,
but I'd be interested in trying it. I wonder if
we could institute. Do you think HR would let us
get away with that?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean, I say we What is it better to
ask for forgiveness than permission?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Especially when Cake is involved?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Oh man, sign me up. I'll try anything once, especially
if Cake is involved.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So thank you so much, Anna, thank you, Rebecca, and
thank you for listening. This concludes listener mail, but not
our show. Tune in because we have more ridiculous stuff
on the way as always in the meantime. You can
learn more about ridiculous, bizarre, strange exploits throughout the story
(27:38):
of human civilization on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians, our Instagram,
or our Twitter. You can also follow our own personal
adventures on Instagram where I am at Ben Bowling.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I am at Embryonic Insider. Big Thanks to super producer
Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme research associate
Gabe Lozier, and of course I think we're due for
a Christopher Hasiotis appearance and possibly a creepy drop in
from our arch nemesis, the Quist Jonathan Strickland.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I have PTSD my friend podcast Drama Traumatic Stress Disorder,
because this is gonna sound weird, But there are I
know that it sounds like a bit sometimes, but there
are genuinely times when we don't know that he's coming.
It's it's strange. It's it's a bizarre situation and we've
(28:29):
just been rolling with it.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
It's also weird when he just kind of drops down
from the ceiling and then his head turns around three
hundred and sixty degrees and he kind of makes a
weird cackling sound. This is a very guttural, like from
the throat kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, this is not a bit. Sometimes he doesn't even
make it to the mic. He just drops in exorss
style and then like skitters back up into the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
It is quite traumatic for all concerned. But at the
same time, I missed the little guy.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know, I'd like a statue. I gotta tell you,
I was conflicted with this because I see Robert E.
Lee's point about not wanting to memorialize this, this intense,
divisive period in time, But also, wouldn't it be kind
of cool to have a statue of your of yourself?
(29:14):
I mean, so it's such a Kanye West move, you know, Casey, would.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You get a statue of yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Probably not, someone else would have to build it right
at the very least.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I'll tell you what you will get.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, maybe not a statue, but some kind of apparel
I think may be forthcoming.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Oh oh oh.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Stay tuned for more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,
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The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe
When a group of women from all over the country realise they all dated the same prolific romance scammer they vow to bring him to justice. In this brand new season of global number 1 hit podcast, The Girlfriends, Anna Sinfield meets a group of funny, feisty, determined women who all had the misfortune of dating a mysterious man named Derek Alldred. Trust Me Babe is a story about the protective forces of gossip, gut instinct, and trusting your besties and the group of women who took matters into their own hands to take down a fraudster when no one else would listen. If you’re affected by any of the themes in this show, our charity partners NO MORE have available resources at https://www.nomore.org. To learn more about romance scams, and to access specialised support, visit https://fightcybercrime.org/ The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe is produced by Novel for iHeartPodcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!