June 27, 2026 • 44 mins
Queen Marie Antoinette's reputation was already tarnished by gossip in 1784, but was completely ruined by the implication that she defrauded the crown jewelers, conning them out of a dazzling, expensive diamond necklace. That's the short summary -- but the story itself is a startling tale of intrigue and iniquity. Listen in to learn more about the strange tale of the diamond necklace hoax.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back, Pillow, Ridiculous Historians. We are returning to you
with a very glitzy classic episode.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We sure are very glitzy and glamy and Marie Antoinette
let them eat cakey. Okay, she didn't say that, but
it's still fun to talk about. We are talking about
a bit of a heist today, a bit of a
bit of what do they call that, court intrigue? Castle intrigue?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Sure? Yeah. Marie Antoinette had, like so many royals and
celebrities of her day, she always was fighting against gossip
and scuttle. But by seventeen eighty four, public opinion was
not one hundred percent on board with her. It became
(00:47):
completely ruined by allegations that she called her own crown
jewelers out of this crazy expensive diamond necklace.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
This sounds about right. Let's just jump right into the stories,
shall we.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(01:34):
the show Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben, and I'd
like to welcome back one of my favorite people ever. Folks.
Let's say hi to Noel Brown. Wait a minute, what
was I gone?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh? Right, I was gone. I felt really rough about
that it was. I realized it was the first time
that I had had to be out of a ridiculous
history episode. We do an O show together, Folks may
know stuff that I want you to know, or we're
a grace with Matt Frederick, so being out of that
one is not a big deal. I can play hooky
occasionally from that one, but not this one, my friend,
(02:08):
not this one.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, you were sorely missed, and we have so much
to catch up on about the Black Plague in Norway.
And then oh and also shout out to our super producer,
Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Was with us. He was there the whole time.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Casey, what was what was that other one we did
with Christopher hasiotis?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh god, then this is the worst question because we
never remember what we did ten minutes ago, the Black plague,
and then we.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Had oh that's right, yes, yeah, I saw the emails.
I was set on those emails. You remember the episode
that you did do better or at least with more
clarity than we did. Well, folks, never fear, as we said, uh,
Nol was on some adventures. Some stuff will be revealed
(03:01):
in time. Very glad to have you back, my guy.
I'm really glad to be back. And I want to
say when I said I can't be absent from this show,
neither one of us can. Well that's not entirely true,
because we have the wonderful, incredible, very smart and well
spoken Christopher Hasiotis who stepped in beautifully and I'm so
appreciate that he was able to do that, and I
was able to have my adventures and guilt free for
(03:23):
the most part.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And he's not only hilarious, but that guy's got a
jaw line for days. He's got like a Thoor Avengers jawline.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Boy does he ever in a fantastic haircut, and really
good tasting food.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I hope you're hearing this, Christopher, Yeah, it is true
though he professionally speaking has great taste of food.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I want to I want to get something air out
something right now. Before we get started the show, there
was a little bit of a Facebook message thread that
was going on between me and Christopher yesterday about the
movie Mandy. I chimed in on a discussion about one
of the episodes, you guys, did I believe it was
the Black Plague one because Christopher said that he absolutely
(04:05):
hated Mandy and thought it was a terrible movie. And
then he actually, in a later exchange, texted me they
titled it Mandy, but a better name would have been man,
these are one hundred minutes of my life I'll never
get back.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah. So I chimed in on the thread and said,
you're dead to me, Christopher hasiotis dead all caps, And
then I wanted to clarify that he's not actually dead
to me. That's just a movie that I kind of
go to bat for kind of a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
On this side. We're on the same page. I'm one
of the people who got it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
In the theaters here exactly, I know for sure, and
you know you're on my team. You're on team Mandy.
But it's a hill that I tend to die on
because a lot of people that movie was not for everybody,
but apparently not for a boy Christopher. But I will
not hold it against him, and he means, in fact,
not dead to me, but very much alive.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We're very much on the same page about things. No.
I like that you're picking up hill to die on.
I've been using that for a few months and I
want it to be back in popular parlance.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
We were what they call an arbiter of culture and
language my friends. Yes, sir, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I just get obsessed with things. I've also been going
through this phase where I'm somewhat obsessed or I'm fascinated
with hoaxes. I'm going through a hoax thing. You like
a good hoax? No, who doesn't like a good hoax?
Ben people who get hoaxed? Everybody else?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So where does our story take us today? We are
traveling to France. We are traveling to France, not in
these our modern days, but in the late summer of
seventeen eighty five, where Europe is gripped by a scandal.
Everybody is watching the news. This is a thank god
there's no Twitter moment, right.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah. If I'm trying to bring anything back or at
least make something happen, it's pronouncing the word scandal as scandal.
And this was one of those. To be sure, this
involved a couple of important things. One the center of
this scandal was a diamond necklace of absolutely immeasurable value. Well,
it was measurable, but it was pretty massive because it
(06:06):
contained something in the neighborhood of six hundred and fifty stones,
and it weighed twenty eight hundred carrots, which is a weight.
As it turns out, I guess I didn't quite realize that, Benz.
It's not just.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Gold nose, camerales, rubies, precious stones, pearls as well. Nowadays
when you hear a carrot, it was a bit loosey
goosey back in the glory days of the seventeen hundreds,
But nowadays a carrot is about two hundred milligrams, and
by about I mean exactly two hundred milligrams.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And what kind of what were the stones in question
in this particular piece of ostentatious jewelry.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Diamonds, diamonds, buddy, all diamonds.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You gotta shine, You got a sparkle, you got a snap,
crackle pop.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
If you're royalty, you go to diamonds. And this diamond
made by the crown jewelers Boehmer and Bessange.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Had gone missing missing. You say, see nice, was there
some sort of heist or how does a how does
a piece of jewelry of such price go missing?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They say, we have sold this to Maui Antoinette through
an intermediary, the Cardinal de Rohan. She denies any involvement.
Moi that is, and everybody knew she hated the cardinals.
She thought he was a real pill.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
She never would have made him her intermediator, used him
as some kind of go between. Right, No, and he
denies this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's like Cheryl Crowe picking us to deliver her next guitar.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now we made nice with Cheryl We. I love Cheryl Crow.
I love Cheryl Crow. Have I talked about how much
I love the bongos on every day as a winding road?
I mean, there's a really, really important use of bongos
in popular music.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I think she's a brilliant songwriter. And I wish she
would stop sending so much email. It's really it's really
getting out of control. But anyway, they had Maui Antoinette
and the Cardinal de Rohan had this had this kind
of ridiculous history Cheryl thing. And the question was why
would May have asked the cardinal to act on her behalf?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh, and I got it wrong. Ron did not deny it.
Quite the opposite. He claimed to have had written in
the Queen's own hand a letter instructing him to carry
out this transaction.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And she, you know, she publicly despised the guy, and
she said that she wasn't involved. But now he's saying
he has, as you said, no written documentation, and he
doubled down on this, right, he said, also furthermore, a
year ago, not only did she did she write and
(08:42):
sign this contract for sale that is in my possession,
but a year before that she met me in secret
and Versailles.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
In the garden of Versailles. It's true. Why all the
cloak and daggery ben, why all the clandestinists.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Lay it on me? Man?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Why? Well, here's the thing. It caught the imagination of
the public. It became like this kind of this whole
affair involving this necklace became this like almost theatrical kind
of charade. Right, But here's the thing. It had real
consequences that resonated through the French Revolution.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Absolutely, we should introduce another character here in this story.
So we've got our players. We've got Mala Antoinette, and
we've got Cardinal Rohan, the Grand Almoner of France Almonder Almoner, Okay,
not that fun al mon e. R.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I thought he was just like a proprietor of like
tasty almonds.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
He's in charge of all the almonds in France, you know,
every every single one goes through him and at the time,
fun fact, ridiculous historians. You know how barbers were also
qualified to be surgeons. People in charge of almonds were
also qualified to be in charge of diamonds because they're
both sort of small and stonelike.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Qualified as probably a strong word. See where you're going
with this then, So let's let's lay it out here.
Let's let's lay out the players. Up to this point.
You just did the two main ones. We also have
the jewelers Boehmer and Massan. She kind of take a backseat. Uh.
There's a really great article about this that's called the
Necklace that cost Marie Antoinette her life.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
In the Telegraph, and in it they talk about how
from his place of exile on Saint Helena, Napoleon actually
kind of weighed in on this after Marie Antoinette met
her untimely demise. Spoiler dies, it's true. Yeah, it's in
the movie The Queen's Death. He said, must be dated
from the Diamond necklace trial.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So Cardinal de Rohan was desperately trying to get into
Moya Antoinette's inner circle. And the problem with this was
that Moi's mother had warned her not to mess with
Cardinal de Rohan. So it was sort of like that,
justin Bieber song my Mom and don't like you and
she likes everyone exactly exactly like that. It was exactly
(11:04):
like that, and he was struggling. He had he had
been caught making fun of Mali Antoinette in seventeen seventy one.
It was it was literally like he made a funny
meme about her and that got too back to her,
(11:25):
so she swore never to speak to him again. And
he thought his career was over. He thought it would
never get a shot at Chief Minister, which is the
position he really wanted. Until that is he met another character,
one of the pivotal characters in today's story. And although
her name is Jeanne as far as I can say it,
(11:46):
I've got to defer to you, Casey, how do we
pronounce her title?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It would actually be Jeanne because she's got two inns
in an e jean contest de la motte valois de
la motte Vaulnoilo.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
We'll just call her Jane Jean. Is that okay? All right?
We'll call her Jean John like.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
A yeah, yeah, like Jean Dark or something.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
All right, Casey on the case big time. But yeah,
I'm never whatever. I'm never gonna be able to repeat
any of that, So Jean from here from here on.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, she was descended from an illegitimate branch of the family,
the royal family, and this was the dynasty that came
before the Bourbons, and she had a terrible childhood. Her
father was a hardcore alcoholic, her mother totally ghosted on her.
She was taken in by an aristocratic family outside of Paris,
(12:41):
but then she came back when she was an adult
to Champagne and she was intent on getting her family
land back, and then that plan fell through. She married
a guy named Nicholas de la Motte. They went to
Paris to try to get people to back them up,
and it didn't really work. They got more and more destitute,
(13:06):
and her ambition to establish herself as legitimate seemed worse
and worse and worse. So she is in dire streets
as well. When she meets Cardinal real Han.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah it's true. And this becomes a real turning point.
When she meets Rohan, he was kind of into her
and didn't really have any problem showing that he gave
her money, and it's very likely that they became lovers
despite his I guess vow of celibacy. Right, isn't that
a thing for a cardinal? Isn't that an?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know, it's like everybody is supposed to use tarted signals.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That's also true, and jaywalking is technically a crime. He
told her that in order to restore her patrimony that
she needed to go directly to the Queen. But as
we said earlier, the Queen was not a fan of Rohan.
He was sort of like a little Finger type character.
(14:04):
You know, he was very considered kind of slimy and
backstabbing by her because of his talking out of school,
and so this was not necessarily going to be something
that he could help his new young lady friends with
because he really had no.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Pull, right right, He had no juice, no suction, as
they say in the wire. So Sean, we can only imagine, says,
you know, what this plan needs to really just make
it pop is a little bit of theatricality, Right, Let's
go to the theatol with it. So she waits in
(14:42):
the mirrored gallery of Versailles on Candle Moss in seventeen
eighty four. And when the Queen walks by, Jean swoons
and she is clutching her petition to get her land
restored to her chest, and she's hoping that the Queen
will see her fall out, you know, and that she
(15:05):
will say, oh, no, who is this beautiful put upon
fainting woman, and how can I help her? So she
she essentially she fakes fainting, and the Queen walks right
by and never asks who fainted. But this is not
what she tells the Cardinal. Instead, she tells her lover,
(15:28):
the Cardinal that the Queen had taken pity on her,
had noticed, and that they had become b FF's Biffles,
that they had become best friends forever, Biffles and Mauie.
Antoinette was the kind of person who had this track record.
It was totally within her mo to find and sort
(15:50):
of adopt people, and she was somewhat reclusive despite this,
so a lot of the people in court didn't really
know her day to day circle of friends. And so
now the tables have turned. Now the Cardinal is begging
shown to broker some kind of I guess peace agreement
(16:13):
with the Queen. You know, like, sorry about that meme.
Sorry you found that funny note about you. I was
passing around. Let's be cool, and she agreed, and there
was a increasing correspondence between the cardinal and moy and
the Queen promised apparently that he would eventually be Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, there's a lot going on here. I want to
take a little asign just because I was looking into
this while you were talking. Candle Mass. It's a holiday
that I was not familiar with. That is the day
in which this original meeting took place, and it has
a fantastic extended name. First of all, it is the
name of the Christian holy day wherein Mary and Joseph,
forty days after the birth of Jesus, brought him to
(17:04):
the temple to be purified, and you know, the rights
of purification dedication performed on him, and that's something that
is in the Torah as necessary, and then that is
actually described in the Book of Leviticus twelve one through four.
But the extended name of Candle Mass is the feast
of the presentation of our Lord Jesus Christ and the
(17:27):
feast of the purification of the blessed Virgin Mary. That's it.
That's all I got. So where are we at now, Ben,
There's a lot going on here. I just wanted to
take a little breath so we can collect ourselves.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Well. We should also mention that an almoner, while we're
at definitions, is just one who distributes alms, so one
who distributes money to the poor, not almonds related. But yes, yes,
So back to this correspondence. The problem is this correspondence
that the Cardinal believes is going very very well, is
(17:57):
all coming to him via She is dictating the letters
to a local and they will call him a stationer
at the time, like a stationary owner, someone who writes
letters professionally. She's telling this guy what to write, and
(18:18):
the Cardinal is desperate. He's like, oh, you know enough
of this. Clearly we get along. I can't wait to
be your prime minister. I'm gonna do such a wonderful job.
Let's meet in person, let's meet irl. But the Queen
always says, it's not quite the right moment for me
to talk to the king about this. Just just you
hold on, you hold on, And the Cardinal is becoming
(18:40):
less and less patient, and Jean is saying, I gotta
get some sort of situation where this guy at least
feels like he's met the queen. Oh, by the way,
she's still married. She's sleeping with this dude. Yeah, but
she's still married to this other, a man of the cloth.
She's sleeping with a man of the cloth. Which is
(19:00):
that by the moment, is that the thing that goes
around the neck is that the cloth?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Or is the cloth? There's a lot of cloth there,
and that probably weirds you out, doesn't it. You're not
a fan of cloth.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, you know, I'm okay with cloth costume.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Oh wait a minute, I'm not thinking. I'm thinking of
our mutual friend Frank. He's the one that doesn't like
cloth and like like fabricy feelings. He's got a cotton
cotton thing. That's it. You're you're more of the metal, metal, cardboard, cardboard,
phone calls and any material. So yeah, no, she needed
him to feel like he had had audience with the queen.
And that's where in the unless I'm mistaken, then we
(19:34):
get our Marie Antoinette doppelganger or impersonator entering the picture.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's right, that's right. So her scally wag soldier husband
Nicholas comes to her with an idea. I've been hanging
around in the Palais Royale and I've been being kind
of looche. You guys, remember I finally got a chance
to use Lucia.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yet and trying to make Loosh happen. Bens, I'm not trying,
it's happening. Yeah, I'm I'm not trying to do things
man Yoda style. This is just happening. And while he's there,
he meets a sex worker named Nicole Legui. She is blonde,
blue eyed, and physically, you know, she looks like the Queen.
(20:19):
She resembles her. He visits her, he gets to know her,
you know what I mean, like carnally well, that kind
of establishment, Ben, is it that kind of place.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, eventually, eventually he's been hanging out with her and
he introduces her to his wife.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Let's also not forget that this was I mean, you
can't forget this is a time where unless you saw
the Queen, if you saw the Queen in person, it
was going to be from a distance, and most likely
the closest thing you'd ever get to actually see the
Queen would be some sort of painting painted facsimile writer
or a little cameo, a little cameo uch or something exactly. Yeah,
there's no proliferation of digital images or even photography, right.
(21:03):
So he introduces his friends to his wife. Is my
friend Nicole. Nicole meets Cheng and don't you think she
looks like the Queen?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
What do you think? Honey? This is why I've been
hanging out with her, because I'm helping you.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I'm doing this for us exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And so Jean takes to Nicole and we have a
quote wherein she is convincing Nicole to take part in
some sort of plan involving the Queen.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So this is what Jean says to her pal Nicole.
She says, quote, I have the Queen's confidence. She and
I are as close as two fingers of a hand.
That's an interesting one. I'm gonna try to bring that
back and make that happen. Yeah, And then she goes
on to say she has just given me new proof
of this in charging me to find a person who
(21:56):
could do something that will be explained when the time comes. Wow,
that is very.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Vague, super vague, super vague.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So does Nicole agree out of a sense of patriotism
or does she agree because she gets fifteen thousand francs.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know, there's no sure answer. So later that evening
they leave and they go to the Lamont's apartment in Versailles,
and still Sean does not explain the plan. Nicole says, Okay,
you're being real vague with me, says, what's going on
with the queen? I appreciate the money. Instead, Sean says, oh,
(22:36):
it's the smallest thing in the world. You have to
meet the queen, but you can't do it without a title.
So Jean dubs her the Casey checked me on this.
The barone doliva. God sounds so beautiful when you say it, man,
Casey's on that case. So now she has a title.
(23:00):
Nicole has been elevated in life.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh and there's a funny little detail in that Telegraph
article that points out that that is very close to
an anagram of her own surname, which is Valoi.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, it's sort of like, sort of like in all
those films where the character is named doctor Alucard turns
out to be Dracula.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Spoiler Just so, just so.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, now Jean is grooming Nicole and dressing her up
and she gives her a letter and she says, hey, Nicole,
I'm gonna lead you to the park of the Palace
and then you're going to hand this letter over to
this really snazzy dude that you'll meet there. I'm paraphrasing.
(23:44):
She did not actually say snazzy dude.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, but surely he was very well dressed.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Sure oh he was all snazz.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
He definitely was. I like that phrase too, snazz Oh.
And then there's this perfect beautiful detail. It's just the
kind of thing out of like a heist movie or
sort of at least some kind of you know, grand
caper of some sort, where she had to hand a rose,
a red rose, over with the letter, and she's instructed
to say to this snazzy person, this all snazz guy.
(24:13):
He will know what this means. And the Queen will
be there to see how the interview goes. She'll be
watching from the wings. One must assume, oh no, no.
She even goes on to say she will speak to
you later, she will be behind you.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So this is just his reality show. Is that sounds folks?
This poor poor Nicole is given this fake title and
she is literally handing a rose to a guy. No
matter what he says, she's only supposed to say, you
know what this means? Can you believe it? Anyway? She
(24:50):
is on board. She is roughly a million percent on board,
hook line and sinker. She is all about it. She's
freaked out. She's going to meet one of the most
powerful people in her country. And she's in the garden,
the grove of Venus specifically, it is incredibly dark. She
can't see anything, she doesn't really hear anything. She's just
(25:14):
walking around in the dark, and she's wondering where the
queen's hiding, and where's this dude, where's this all snazz
dude that she's supposed to meet.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So we should backtrack, ever so slightly at this delightful
cliffhanger that you set up so beautifully. But Jean had
been kind of dangling the queen let's say a little
bit in front of Rohan. Yes, in terms of, you know,
the possibility of him meeting her and making things better
between them, right, or at least having him have that
(25:43):
chance of a lifetime to worm his way into her
inner circle. Let's be honest, this guy seems a little wormy.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
For weeks and weeks she's been sort of teasing this
little finger of our story. You made that comparison earlier,
I quite like it. And then he would hang out,
just literally loiter around Versailles, hoping to run into Mali Antoinette.
And it wasn't until August twelfth that he gets word
(26:10):
from Jean that he can meet the queen, but he
asked to meet her secretly at night in the garden, essentially,
and Mayu was not yet ready to reveal their agreement
to the public. So he hung around and he actually
did not dress all snazz. He was dressed in all
(26:32):
black and he had a hat on. He was looking conspiratorial,
you know what I mean totally.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's like the period equivalent of like a trench coat
and some sort of fida. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So he's waiting around, He's like, ah, there's going to
be another fruitless night of waiting. The things I do
to be prime minister, he's thinking. He's probably also thinking,
I have so many alms to give in the morning.
And then all of a sudden, who runs up to him,
Not the Queen, not Nicole, but first show.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's right, it's our girl, Jean, who really is a
little bit almost more out little fingering, the little finger
of our story. For sure, she is panting, she's out
of breath. She's very upset, or at least she's flustered
at least, maybe not in the outright upset, But she
tells him who is upset, and that's the Queen. The
Queen is very upset because she's so very much wanted
(27:25):
to have this encounter with Rohan, and that's not gonna
be possible because the Queen's sisters in law have kind of,
I don't know, headed her off at the past, I guess,
or you know, done a surprise walk and talk that. Yeah,
she couldn't get out of it, so he's gonna have
to hang back Rohan. This is what Jean is telling him,
(27:46):
and that she, the Queen, plans to skidaddle out of there,
you know, put in a little face time, and then
make an excuse and then abscond off to meet secretly
to keep the meeting. But it's gonna have to be quick,
and it's gonna be very close because they're hot on
their heels. She doesn't want anyone to see this absurdly
suspicious character because it seems like he's supposedly dressing for secrecy,
(28:09):
but I would think he would be very suspicious looking
dressed that way.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's absolutely true. He's trying to look inconspicuous, and you know,
there's a point where you reach diminishing returns with dressing inconspicuous.
Trench coat for doorra he went full trench coat Fedora.
So the kicker for this is that she says, don't worry, though,
the queen will give you, quote, unequivocal proofs of her
protection and benevolence. And he's like, okay, okay, I'm in,
(28:36):
I'm in. So Sean leads the cardinal to this opening
in a clearing and he sees this figure, you know,
sort of silhouetted in the darkness, and he also goes
all in. You know, his heart's probably racing, he's probably
really freaked out. He walks to this figure and he
(28:56):
kneels at her feet and she, by the way, is Nicole, right,
the new barone, And she is not sure what to do,
so she just thrust this rose toward him, and she
kind of hides her face with her fan, and she
says that she couldn't remember exactly what she said in
(29:19):
the conversation, but the cardinal claimed that he heard her say,
you may believe the past will be forgotten. So boom,
there we go. It appears that for all intents and purposes,
this cardinal has met the Queen, and the Queen is good,
and she has appeared to back up all the fake
(29:41):
letters that this cardinal has been receiving. And Rohan essentially
just really wanted to see the queen, and he saw
what he wanted to see. A little bit later, he
received a written request on this paper. This was always
blue bordered paper because it was from that one stationary shop.
(30:03):
He received a request for sixty thousand francs to help
an impoverished family. And again, let's remember this guy's job
is to distribute money to the poor. So he goes
through with that, and then in the beginning of seventeen
eighty five, another request arrives. Get this, it's ordering him
to negotiate the purpose of a certain diamond necklace. That's right,
(30:27):
thought we forgot No, we just set it up in
a weird way.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I was wondering we were going to come back around
to it myself. Then I was too, So she gets
this letter. There's a lot of backstory here, right, Noel
gets this letter from the Queen saying, hey, set this
up for me, help me buy this necklace. And the
problem here is that these crown jewelers that we mentioned earlier,
(30:52):
Boehmer and Bassinge, as you said, have been trying for
years and years and years to sell this super ostentatious, extravagant,
opulent necklace that had how many diamonds. Yeah, it was
like pushing six fifty six hundred and fifty stones, twenty
eight hundred carrots.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Huge, huge, again, extravagant, opulent, ostentatious, all those words, all
the words, and they have been presenting this to the
King and the Queen turned it down and they knocked
some money off the price, but it was still considered
too much.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, that was reduced to somewhere in the neighborhood of
one point six million. And this is news to me, guys.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Livre which is a different currency from the fronc, and
that's the franc wasn't around until seventeen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
So let's she clarify that. That's right. And I think
we talked about some payoffs being in francs earlier in
the show. Was not a thing yet. The livra which
Casey being on the case, as he tends to be
clued us into that that actually means a book.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, booker a pound, Casey on the case, Thanks for
saving the show man every time speak behind the curve
of folks. Every time we do an episode concerning the
French language. Now we have learned. We've learned to check
with Casey slightly in advance so that we don't put
(32:12):
over on the spot by saying. There was one episode
where we said, hey, Casey, can you just translate this
entire paragraph for us?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And he was like, guys, I need a little a
little time.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It wasn't been modern French.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I'm not just here like French monkey, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So you're right, it's very important. This is a currency.
The cost is reduced. They still can't sell this because
it's like it's like a gold plated ferrari, you know
what I mean. It's just a lot. It's too much.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And how much would it have taken for something to
be too extravagant and expensive for the Queen of France, right,
not exactly known for their penny pinching ways or like,
you know, keeping things modest.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
That's true, and so Sean sees this opportunity, and she
talks to her buddy, the cardinal, and she says, hey,
will you help the queen buy this necklace and the
payment will be made in four installments over two years,
and he is down to clown. He is on board.
So the jewelers are overwhelmed with joy. They are elated.
(33:24):
Someone is gonna buy this. The Queen is gonna buy this.
We're gonna yeah, we'll give you the necklace and then
you'll just pay us off in those four installments over
two years. So on the first of February seventeen eighty five,
the jewelers Boemer and Bissinge give the necklace to the cardinal.
The cardinal gives it to Sean and Jean. What does
(33:45):
she do? Does she make four payments over two years? Now?
Does she say, hey, I was lying to you? What
does she do?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
She just kind of books it with the goods? You know,
she's the real puppa man in this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
The guys are so say, I know I say it
too much, but I love that film Usual Suspects.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, man. She ghosts. And then on
July twelfth of that year, the jewelers send a letter
to the queen. Boehmer specifically sends a letter to the
Queen and mentions the necklace. The Queen doesn't know what's
going on, so she just shreds her mail.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
What's this nonsense?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
What is right in the royal shred? She says, that's
a quote in her voice, And.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The jeweler is not getting any word, and he waits
and waits and waits, and so later in August he
sends a letter to one of Maya Toinette's ladies in waiting,
and he's like, hey, you know, not to be weird
about it, but I'm really surprised that you guys still
owe me money for this necklace. You are you know,
your friends, the Queen of France. I don't know how
(34:54):
to like make this not awkward? Can you can you
give me some liv Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Exactly. And this is when the proverbial ish hits the fan,
when the lady in waiting, Madame Campont, takes this information
back to the Queen, who then is like, wait a minute,
something's funky here. I need an explanation. What's going on?
So in August fifteenth, right before a mass at the
(35:21):
Royal Chapel. Rohan receives a convocation from the King of France.
Right as he was leaving, he is arrested in the
Hall of Mirrors and he's completely flabbergasted. Everyone else is
just in shock. And that is when this news of
this scandal was about to reach critical mass.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yes, and that is not hyperbole at all, So this
becomes a huge to do a brew haha if you will.
The Cardinal goes before the Parliament to May of seventeen
eighty six. Surprisingly, he's declared innocent. They track down Sean
(36:05):
and her team and they are arrested and she, for
the crime of being a con artist, is branded with
a hot iron and she's the hot iron brand that
she receives is a capital V, and that stands for
thief in French. What's that word casey volure voaleure thief
(36:27):
a genuine scarlet letter. And although the Queen is innocent,
her reputation is tarnished. You know, she can't walk back
from that. She may have won in the court of
the law, but she has failed in the court of
public opinion. And from that point on, she really really
wanted the absolute worst for the Cardinal, for Rohan, who
(36:50):
she already didn't care for, who she already didn't care for.
Great point. So although the cardinal was acquitted, it didn't
help that the Queen of the Cune hated this dude.
So he loses all his offices and he is exiled.
And then our anti hero of the story, Sean, for
(37:11):
this crime, this diamond hoax, is sentenced to be flogged.
She's got the hot v on her and she is
going to prison for life. At least that was her sentence.
She later escapes to England and publishes publishes a hit
piece on the queen, so she doesn't really feel bad.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Pretty brazen this one, huh.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and she made it out, but the Queen didn't
make it out unscathed.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
No, she never really recovered from this. I mean, it's
interesting because she really didn't do anything. All this stuff
happened under her nose. She was used at the center
of this kind of like diamond heist as sort of
like a patsy, kind of a weird fall guy. And
in what way was she a fall guy? Well, her
reputation took an absolute nosedive. Not that I mean, as
(38:05):
we know already not the most popular government in terms
of the incredible gulf between the rich and the poor,
and the sense that these folks, these mucky munks are
just living it up, you know, at the hotel Versailles
doing their thing, and the rest of the you know,
common folks are just scrapping in the streets for food.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
It's like in ley Miz. We've seen lay Miz just
like that. Yeah, but this just cements that reputation for
utter moral bankruptcy. And as an article in Britannica about
the affair of the diamond necklace puts it, frivolity, just
this sense of the let the meat cake thing, which
(38:45):
we know is not a real thing, but just that's
what is encapsulated here in this whole affair. It's like
they are so clueless, so out of touch.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's one of the this is but one of the
incidents leaded up to what we call the French Revolution today.
And it's strange because I don't know about I don't
know about you folks, but I had not heard of this,
I like many of us here in the US, and
I had a sort of a vague outline or chronology
(39:15):
of the French Revolution and the transformation of its government.
But I had no idea there was a diamond heist.
They should be telling more people about this in school.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Everybody likes a good diamond heist. Everybody likes a good hoax.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That's true. And this concludes our story of the affair
of the diamond Necklace, or, as you said earlier, Noel,
the scandal.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Here's my question, Ben, how do you of fence an
item like that? You go to England, you go to
a different country, you sell it to another monarchy.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Maybe you break it down and just sell the diamonds.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
That's probably what you'd have to do, because surely there
would be apbs out for this thing across the land.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I always wonder about Europe. Yeah, I always wonder about that.
With art hoaxes and unique items, you know, like someone
steals a priceless painting, how do you fence that? Who
do you sell it to? Do you go on Craigslist?
I don't know. I've never I've done a lot of
things in my life, but I have yet to steal
and fence priceless artwork. Hey, maybe twenty nineteens my year. Man.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, here's the thing too. Are there like shadowy you
know collectors that are the ones who are brazen enough
to buy that stuff, and that's where they keep that
in their secret gallery, right, that's like behind like a
bookshelf or whatever. You got to walk in.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It was a really interesting article I had read a
few weeks back that was positing a lot of artwork
we see in public museums is actually forged, with the
real pieces being, as you said, in secret galleries.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
You think that's likely?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I'm not sure? But have you seen the movie? Can
you ever forgive me?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I think I have?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Wait? Well, it's with what's your name? Melissa McCarthy. It
was pretty recent. It's about she's like kind of a
failed writer. Oh yeah, it's a true story where she
got that best friend who's yeah, the British guy whose
name I'm forgetting right now, but I love him. He
was in with Nayla and I and some other Yeah. Yeah.
But her whole thing is and this isn't a spoiler
if you don't want a mild spoiler about this movie.
And it's what the movie's about, but you don't know
(41:06):
it right away. She ends up, you know, she's hard,
down on her luck, and she ends up forging letters
from famous famous dead writers and you know, socialites, and
then she's really good at and she's really good at
it and she gets the wit and all of that down.
That's the same with like being able to forge a
work of art, right, you have to really nail it.
It's more than just making a copy. You almost have
(41:27):
to have like the soul of the artist and be
able to copy that.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I would watch. I would watch The Affair of the
Diamond Necklace were it a film. And speaking of films,
let us do what are some of your favorite heist films?
What are some of your favorite stories of appalling opulence
from various royal families of time gone by?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
You can find us on Facebook. You can find us
on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram. You can
hang out with our favorite part of the show, your
fellows on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. That's the one.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
That's the one, Yeah, the one we were talking about
the top of the show, where you can follow the
beef between me and Christopher hastiotis about whether or not
Mandy's a good film?
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Is that what you guys were talking on it is?
Why doesn't I saw what I saw him on it?
I saw. He said that he would watch it again.
But it's like, the thing is, I went to so
much trouble trying to get this to play at the Plaza.
He didn't even go well.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
He didn't like it. He hated the movie. He literally
just wrote to me episode I told him about this beef.
I said, this beef is now ridiculous history Cannon and
he goes Episode one thirty two, the time Noel Brown
revealed how historically wrong he was about Mandy. Now I've
got I've got an ally in this fight for Mandy.
I mean, you were there all along, Ben, But I
think we need to we need to sit down with
Christopher and set the record straight.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna be Sweden on this.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I've never let someone else's opinion of a film interfere
with how I feel about it, So I'm not gonna
absolutely not. But he's really doubling down on this. I
don't negotiate with terrorists. He's borderline entering character assassination territory.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I did not negotiate with terrorists.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
That's fair. Was that like a JFK voice kind of No,
that's just that's my real voice. Okay, got it. But yeah,
if you want to follow this ongoing saga, check us
out on Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. If you want to
check us out on Instagram. We mainly just post like
new episodes and stuff. But if you want to check
out me and Ben's personal exploits, you can follow me
at Embryonic Insider.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And you can follow me at Ben Bullen. Currently, I
am snacking on pizzerias or I'm about to, because this
is one of my favorite long gone chips and I
think I just found a way to get a bag.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Ben. When I heard you say that, you said snacking
on pizzerias, I was picturing you like like eating like
all the pizza available, and.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
The building, like the stone, the benches.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
You're you're sort of like, what's that French guy who
ate all the things? I think? I think gate a baby.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I don't know anybody who eats babies.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I don't know about this.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Now there's a Brazilian guy who you know what we
should save this. This is a story for another day.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Hey, I just want to point out I googled French
guy who ate a baby. His name was Terraar and
he was born in rural France nearly on in seventeen
seventy two, and his whole thing was he would eat anything.
He was actually hospitalized in a psychiatric ward where it
is conjectured that he possibly ate a baby.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Well, there's also this goes back to the super the
super stomics, right, the super eaters. That's right, there's a
guy in Brazil who's done the same thing. And we're
not talking about the survivors of the crash in the
andes On. You know, the basis or the inspiration for
the movie Alive.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
All right, I'll see you next time, folks. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome back, Pillow, Ridiculous Historians. We are returning to you
with a very glitzy classic episode.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We sure are very glitzy and glamy and Marie Antoinette
let them eat cakey. Okay, she didn't say that, but
it's still fun to talk about. We are talking about
a bit of a heist today, a bit of a
bit of what do they call that, court intrigue? Castle intrigue?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Sure? Yeah. Marie Antoinette had, like so many royals and
celebrities of her day, she always was fighting against gossip
and scuttle. But by seventeen eighty four, public opinion was
not one hundred percent on board with her. It became
(00:47):
completely ruined by allegations that she called her own crown
jewelers out of this crazy expensive diamond necklace.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
This sounds about right. Let's just jump right into the stories,
shall we.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(01:34):
the show Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben, and I'd
like to welcome back one of my favorite people ever. Folks.
Let's say hi to Noel Brown. Wait a minute, what
was I gone?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh? Right, I was gone. I felt really rough about
that it was. I realized it was the first time
that I had had to be out of a ridiculous
history episode. We do an O show together, Folks may
know stuff that I want you to know, or we're
a grace with Matt Frederick, so being out of that
one is not a big deal. I can play hooky
occasionally from that one, but not this one, my friend,
(02:08):
not this one.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, you were sorely missed, and we have so much
to catch up on about the Black Plague in Norway.
And then oh and also shout out to our super producer,
Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Was with us. He was there the whole time.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Casey, what was what was that other one we did
with Christopher hasiotis?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh god, then this is the worst question because we
never remember what we did ten minutes ago, the Black plague,
and then we.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Had oh that's right, yes, yeah, I saw the emails.
I was set on those emails. You remember the episode
that you did do better or at least with more
clarity than we did. Well, folks, never fear, as we said, uh,
Nol was on some adventures. Some stuff will be revealed
(03:01):
in time. Very glad to have you back, my guy.
I'm really glad to be back. And I want to
say when I said I can't be absent from this show,
neither one of us can. Well that's not entirely true,
because we have the wonderful, incredible, very smart and well
spoken Christopher Hasiotis who stepped in beautifully and I'm so
appreciate that he was able to do that, and I
was able to have my adventures and guilt free for
(03:23):
the most part.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And he's not only hilarious, but that guy's got a
jaw line for days. He's got like a Thoor Avengers jawline.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Boy does he ever in a fantastic haircut, and really
good tasting food.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I hope you're hearing this, Christopher, Yeah, it is true
though he professionally speaking has great taste of food.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I want to I want to get something air out
something right now. Before we get started the show, there
was a little bit of a Facebook message thread that
was going on between me and Christopher yesterday about the
movie Mandy. I chimed in on a discussion about one
of the episodes, you guys, did I believe it was
the Black Plague one because Christopher said that he absolutely
(04:05):
hated Mandy and thought it was a terrible movie. And
then he actually, in a later exchange, texted me they
titled it Mandy, but a better name would have been man,
these are one hundred minutes of my life I'll never
get back.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah. So I chimed in on the thread and said,
you're dead to me, Christopher hasiotis dead all caps, And
then I wanted to clarify that he's not actually dead
to me. That's just a movie that I kind of
go to bat for kind of a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
On this side. We're on the same page. I'm one
of the people who got it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
In the theaters here exactly, I know for sure, and
you know you're on my team. You're on team Mandy.
But it's a hill that I tend to die on
because a lot of people that movie was not for everybody,
but apparently not for a boy Christopher. But I will
not hold it against him, and he means, in fact,
not dead to me, but very much alive.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We're very much on the same page about things. No.
I like that you're picking up hill to die on.
I've been using that for a few months and I
want it to be back in popular parlance.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
We were what they call an arbiter of culture and
language my friends. Yes, sir, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I just get obsessed with things. I've also been going
through this phase where I'm somewhat obsessed or I'm fascinated
with hoaxes. I'm going through a hoax thing. You like
a good hoax? No, who doesn't like a good hoax?
Ben people who get hoaxed? Everybody else?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So where does our story take us today? We are
traveling to France. We are traveling to France, not in
these our modern days, but in the late summer of
seventeen eighty five, where Europe is gripped by a scandal.
Everybody is watching the news. This is a thank god
there's no Twitter moment, right.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah. If I'm trying to bring anything back or at
least make something happen, it's pronouncing the word scandal as scandal.
And this was one of those. To be sure, this
involved a couple of important things. One the center of
this scandal was a diamond necklace of absolutely immeasurable value. Well,
it was measurable, but it was pretty massive because it
(06:06):
contained something in the neighborhood of six hundred and fifty stones,
and it weighed twenty eight hundred carrots, which is a weight.
As it turns out, I guess I didn't quite realize that, Benz.
It's not just.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Gold nose, camerales, rubies, precious stones, pearls as well. Nowadays
when you hear a carrot, it was a bit loosey
goosey back in the glory days of the seventeen hundreds,
But nowadays a carrot is about two hundred milligrams, and
by about I mean exactly two hundred milligrams.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And what kind of what were the stones in question
in this particular piece of ostentatious jewelry.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Diamonds, diamonds, buddy, all diamonds.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You gotta shine, You got a sparkle, you got a snap,
crackle pop.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
If you're royalty, you go to diamonds. And this diamond
made by the crown jewelers Boehmer and Bessange.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Had gone missing missing. You say, see nice, was there
some sort of heist or how does a how does
a piece of jewelry of such price go missing?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They say, we have sold this to Maui Antoinette through
an intermediary, the Cardinal de Rohan. She denies any involvement.
Moi that is, and everybody knew she hated the cardinals.
She thought he was a real pill.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
She never would have made him her intermediator, used him
as some kind of go between. Right, No, and he
denies this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's like Cheryl Crowe picking us to deliver her next guitar.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now we made nice with Cheryl We. I love Cheryl Crow.
I love Cheryl Crow. Have I talked about how much
I love the bongos on every day as a winding road?
I mean, there's a really, really important use of bongos
in popular music.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I think she's a brilliant songwriter. And I wish she
would stop sending so much email. It's really it's really
getting out of control. But anyway, they had Maui Antoinette
and the Cardinal de Rohan had this had this kind
of ridiculous history Cheryl thing. And the question was why
would May have asked the cardinal to act on her behalf?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh, and I got it wrong. Ron did not deny it.
Quite the opposite. He claimed to have had written in
the Queen's own hand a letter instructing him to carry
out this transaction.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And she, you know, she publicly despised the guy, and
she said that she wasn't involved. But now he's saying
he has, as you said, no written documentation, and he
doubled down on this, right, he said, also furthermore, a
year ago, not only did she did she write and
(08:42):
sign this contract for sale that is in my possession,
but a year before that she met me in secret
and Versailles.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
In the garden of Versailles. It's true. Why all the
cloak and daggery ben, why all the clandestinists.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Lay it on me? Man?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Why? Well, here's the thing. It caught the imagination of
the public. It became like this kind of this whole
affair involving this necklace became this like almost theatrical kind
of charade. Right, But here's the thing. It had real
consequences that resonated through the French Revolution.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Absolutely, we should introduce another character here in this story.
So we've got our players. We've got Mala Antoinette, and
we've got Cardinal Rohan, the Grand Almoner of France Almonder Almoner, Okay,
not that fun al mon e. R.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I thought he was just like a proprietor of like
tasty almonds.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
He's in charge of all the almonds in France, you know,
every every single one goes through him and at the time,
fun fact, ridiculous historians. You know how barbers were also
qualified to be surgeons. People in charge of almonds were
also qualified to be in charge of diamonds because they're
both sort of small and stonelike.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Qualified as probably a strong word. See where you're going
with this then, So let's let's lay it out here.
Let's let's lay out the players. Up to this point.
You just did the two main ones. We also have
the jewelers Boehmer and Massan. She kind of take a backseat. Uh.
There's a really great article about this that's called the
Necklace that cost Marie Antoinette her life.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
In the Telegraph, and in it they talk about how
from his place of exile on Saint Helena, Napoleon actually
kind of weighed in on this after Marie Antoinette met
her untimely demise. Spoiler dies, it's true. Yeah, it's in
the movie The Queen's Death. He said, must be dated
from the Diamond necklace trial.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So Cardinal de Rohan was desperately trying to get into
Moya Antoinette's inner circle. And the problem with this was
that Moi's mother had warned her not to mess with
Cardinal de Rohan. So it was sort of like that,
justin Bieber song my Mom and don't like you and
she likes everyone exactly exactly like that. It was exactly
(11:04):
like that, and he was struggling. He had he had
been caught making fun of Mali Antoinette in seventeen seventy one.
It was it was literally like he made a funny
meme about her and that got too back to her,
(11:25):
so she swore never to speak to him again. And
he thought his career was over. He thought it would
never get a shot at Chief Minister, which is the
position he really wanted. Until that is he met another character,
one of the pivotal characters in today's story. And although
her name is Jeanne as far as I can say it,
(11:46):
I've got to defer to you, Casey, how do we
pronounce her title?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It would actually be Jeanne because she's got two inns
in an e jean contest de la motte valois de
la motte Vaulnoilo.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
We'll just call her Jane Jean. Is that okay? All right?
We'll call her Jean John like.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
A yeah, yeah, like Jean Dark or something.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
All right, Casey on the case big time. But yeah,
I'm never whatever. I'm never gonna be able to repeat
any of that, So Jean from here from here on.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, she was descended from an illegitimate branch of the family,
the royal family, and this was the dynasty that came
before the Bourbons, and she had a terrible childhood. Her
father was a hardcore alcoholic, her mother totally ghosted on her.
She was taken in by an aristocratic family outside of Paris,
(12:41):
but then she came back when she was an adult
to Champagne and she was intent on getting her family
land back, and then that plan fell through. She married
a guy named Nicholas de la Motte. They went to
Paris to try to get people to back them up,
and it didn't really work. They got more and more destitute,
(13:06):
and her ambition to establish herself as legitimate seemed worse
and worse and worse. So she is in dire streets
as well. When she meets Cardinal real Han.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah it's true. And this becomes a real turning point.
When she meets Rohan, he was kind of into her
and didn't really have any problem showing that he gave
her money, and it's very likely that they became lovers
despite his I guess vow of celibacy. Right, isn't that
a thing for a cardinal? Isn't that an?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know, it's like everybody is supposed to use tarted signals.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That's also true, and jaywalking is technically a crime. He
told her that in order to restore her patrimony that
she needed to go directly to the Queen. But as
we said earlier, the Queen was not a fan of Rohan.
He was sort of like a little Finger type character.
(14:04):
You know, he was very considered kind of slimy and
backstabbing by her because of his talking out of school,
and so this was not necessarily going to be something
that he could help his new young lady friends with
because he really had no.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Pull, right right, He had no juice, no suction, as
they say in the wire. So Sean, we can only imagine, says,
you know, what this plan needs to really just make
it pop is a little bit of theatricality, Right, Let's
go to the theatol with it. So she waits in
(14:42):
the mirrored gallery of Versailles on Candle Moss in seventeen
eighty four. And when the Queen walks by, Jean swoons
and she is clutching her petition to get her land
restored to her chest, and she's hoping that the Queen
will see her fall out, you know, and that she
(15:05):
will say, oh, no, who is this beautiful put upon
fainting woman, and how can I help her? So she
she essentially she fakes fainting, and the Queen walks right
by and never asks who fainted. But this is not
what she tells the Cardinal. Instead, she tells her lover,
(15:28):
the Cardinal that the Queen had taken pity on her,
had noticed, and that they had become b FF's Biffles,
that they had become best friends forever, Biffles and Mauie.
Antoinette was the kind of person who had this track record.
It was totally within her mo to find and sort
(15:50):
of adopt people, and she was somewhat reclusive despite this,
so a lot of the people in court didn't really
know her day to day circle of friends. And so
now the tables have turned. Now the Cardinal is begging
shown to broker some kind of I guess peace agreement
(16:13):
with the Queen. You know, like, sorry about that meme.
Sorry you found that funny note about you. I was
passing around. Let's be cool, and she agreed, and there
was a increasing correspondence between the cardinal and moy and
the Queen promised apparently that he would eventually be Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, there's a lot going on here. I want to
take a little asign just because I was looking into
this while you were talking. Candle Mass. It's a holiday
that I was not familiar with. That is the day
in which this original meeting took place, and it has
a fantastic extended name. First of all, it is the
name of the Christian holy day wherein Mary and Joseph,
forty days after the birth of Jesus, brought him to
(17:04):
the temple to be purified, and you know, the rights
of purification dedication performed on him, and that's something that
is in the Torah as necessary, and then that is
actually described in the Book of Leviticus twelve one through four.
But the extended name of Candle Mass is the feast
of the presentation of our Lord Jesus Christ and the
(17:27):
feast of the purification of the blessed Virgin Mary. That's it.
That's all I got. So where are we at now, Ben,
There's a lot going on here. I just wanted to
take a little breath so we can collect ourselves.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Well. We should also mention that an almoner, while we're
at definitions, is just one who distributes alms, so one
who distributes money to the poor, not almonds related. But yes, yes,
So back to this correspondence. The problem is this correspondence
that the Cardinal believes is going very very well, is
(17:57):
all coming to him via She is dictating the letters
to a local and they will call him a stationer
at the time, like a stationary owner, someone who writes
letters professionally. She's telling this guy what to write, and
(18:18):
the Cardinal is desperate. He's like, oh, you know enough
of this. Clearly we get along. I can't wait to
be your prime minister. I'm gonna do such a wonderful job.
Let's meet in person, let's meet irl. But the Queen
always says, it's not quite the right moment for me
to talk to the king about this. Just just you
hold on, you hold on, And the Cardinal is becoming
(18:40):
less and less patient, and Jean is saying, I gotta
get some sort of situation where this guy at least
feels like he's met the queen. Oh, by the way,
she's still married. She's sleeping with this dude. Yeah, but
she's still married to this other, a man of the cloth.
She's sleeping with a man of the cloth. Which is
(19:00):
that by the moment, is that the thing that goes
around the neck is that the cloth?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Or is the cloth? There's a lot of cloth there,
and that probably weirds you out, doesn't it. You're not
a fan of cloth.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, you know, I'm okay with cloth costume.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Oh wait a minute, I'm not thinking. I'm thinking of
our mutual friend Frank. He's the one that doesn't like
cloth and like like fabricy feelings. He's got a cotton
cotton thing. That's it. You're you're more of the metal, metal, cardboard, cardboard,
phone calls and any material. So yeah, no, she needed
him to feel like he had had audience with the queen.
And that's where in the unless I'm mistaken, then we
(19:34):
get our Marie Antoinette doppelganger or impersonator entering the picture.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's right, that's right. So her scally wag soldier husband
Nicholas comes to her with an idea. I've been hanging
around in the Palais Royale and I've been being kind
of looche. You guys, remember I finally got a chance
to use Lucia.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yet and trying to make Loosh happen. Bens, I'm not trying,
it's happening. Yeah, I'm I'm not trying to do things
man Yoda style. This is just happening. And while he's there,
he meets a sex worker named Nicole Legui. She is blonde,
blue eyed, and physically, you know, she looks like the Queen.
(20:19):
She resembles her. He visits her, he gets to know her,
you know what I mean, like carnally well, that kind
of establishment, Ben, is it that kind of place.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, eventually, eventually he's been hanging out with her and
he introduces her to his wife.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Let's also not forget that this was I mean, you
can't forget this is a time where unless you saw
the Queen, if you saw the Queen in person, it
was going to be from a distance, and most likely
the closest thing you'd ever get to actually see the
Queen would be some sort of painting painted facsimile writer
or a little cameo, a little cameo uch or something exactly. Yeah,
there's no proliferation of digital images or even photography, right.
(21:03):
So he introduces his friends to his wife. Is my
friend Nicole. Nicole meets Cheng and don't you think she
looks like the Queen?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
What do you think? Honey? This is why I've been
hanging out with her, because I'm helping you.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I'm doing this for us exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And so Jean takes to Nicole and we have a
quote wherein she is convincing Nicole to take part in
some sort of plan involving the Queen.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So this is what Jean says to her pal Nicole.
She says, quote, I have the Queen's confidence. She and
I are as close as two fingers of a hand.
That's an interesting one. I'm gonna try to bring that
back and make that happen. Yeah, And then she goes
on to say she has just given me new proof
of this in charging me to find a person who
(21:56):
could do something that will be explained when the time comes. Wow,
that is very.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Vague, super vague, super vague.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So does Nicole agree out of a sense of patriotism
or does she agree because she gets fifteen thousand francs.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know, there's no sure answer. So later that evening
they leave and they go to the Lamont's apartment in Versailles,
and still Sean does not explain the plan. Nicole says, Okay,
you're being real vague with me, says, what's going on
with the queen? I appreciate the money. Instead, Sean says, oh,
(22:36):
it's the smallest thing in the world. You have to
meet the queen, but you can't do it without a title.
So Jean dubs her the Casey checked me on this.
The barone doliva. God sounds so beautiful when you say it, man,
Casey's on that case. So now she has a title.
(23:00):
Nicole has been elevated in life.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh and there's a funny little detail in that Telegraph
article that points out that that is very close to
an anagram of her own surname, which is Valoi.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, it's sort of like, sort of like in all
those films where the character is named doctor Alucard turns
out to be Dracula.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Spoiler Just so, just so.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So, now Jean is grooming Nicole and dressing her up
and she gives her a letter and she says, hey, Nicole,
I'm gonna lead you to the park of the Palace
and then you're going to hand this letter over to
this really snazzy dude that you'll meet there. I'm paraphrasing.
(23:44):
She did not actually say snazzy dude.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, but surely he was very well dressed.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Sure oh he was all snazz.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
He definitely was. I like that phrase too, snazz Oh.
And then there's this perfect beautiful detail. It's just the
kind of thing out of like a heist movie or
sort of at least some kind of you know, grand
caper of some sort, where she had to hand a rose,
a red rose, over with the letter, and she's instructed
to say to this snazzy person, this all snazz guy.
(24:13):
He will know what this means. And the Queen will
be there to see how the interview goes. She'll be
watching from the wings. One must assume, oh no, no.
She even goes on to say she will speak to
you later, she will be behind you.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So this is just his reality show. Is that sounds folks?
This poor poor Nicole is given this fake title and
she is literally handing a rose to a guy. No
matter what he says, she's only supposed to say, you
know what this means? Can you believe it? Anyway? She
(24:50):
is on board. She is roughly a million percent on board,
hook line and sinker. She is all about it. She's
freaked out. She's going to meet one of the most
powerful people in her country. And she's in the garden,
the grove of Venus specifically, it is incredibly dark. She
can't see anything, she doesn't really hear anything. She's just
(25:14):
walking around in the dark, and she's wondering where the
queen's hiding, and where's this dude, where's this all snazz
dude that she's supposed to meet.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So we should backtrack, ever so slightly at this delightful
cliffhanger that you set up so beautifully. But Jean had
been kind of dangling the queen let's say a little
bit in front of Rohan. Yes, in terms of, you know,
the possibility of him meeting her and making things better
between them, right, or at least having him have that
(25:43):
chance of a lifetime to worm his way into her
inner circle. Let's be honest, this guy seems a little wormy.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
For weeks and weeks she's been sort of teasing this
little finger of our story. You made that comparison earlier,
I quite like it. And then he would hang out,
just literally loiter around Versailles, hoping to run into Mali Antoinette.
And it wasn't until August twelfth that he gets word
(26:10):
from Jean that he can meet the queen, but he
asked to meet her secretly at night in the garden, essentially,
and Mayu was not yet ready to reveal their agreement
to the public. So he hung around and he actually
did not dress all snazz. He was dressed in all
(26:32):
black and he had a hat on. He was looking conspiratorial,
you know what I mean totally.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's like the period equivalent of like a trench coat
and some sort of fida. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So he's waiting around, He's like, ah, there's going to
be another fruitless night of waiting. The things I do
to be prime minister, he's thinking. He's probably also thinking,
I have so many alms to give in the morning.
And then all of a sudden, who runs up to him,
Not the Queen, not Nicole, but first show.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's right, it's our girl, Jean, who really is a
little bit almost more out little fingering, the little finger
of our story. For sure, she is panting, she's out
of breath. She's very upset, or at least she's flustered
at least, maybe not in the outright upset, But she
tells him who is upset, and that's the Queen. The
Queen is very upset because she's so very much wanted
(27:25):
to have this encounter with Rohan, and that's not gonna
be possible because the Queen's sisters in law have kind of,
I don't know, headed her off at the past, I guess,
or you know, done a surprise walk and talk that. Yeah,
she couldn't get out of it, so he's gonna have
to hang back Rohan. This is what Jean is telling him,
(27:46):
and that she, the Queen, plans to skidaddle out of there,
you know, put in a little face time, and then
make an excuse and then abscond off to meet secretly
to keep the meeting. But it's gonna have to be quick,
and it's gonna be very close because they're hot on
their heels. She doesn't want anyone to see this absurdly
suspicious character because it seems like he's supposedly dressing for secrecy,
(28:09):
but I would think he would be very suspicious looking
dressed that way.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's absolutely true. He's trying to look inconspicuous, and you know,
there's a point where you reach diminishing returns with dressing inconspicuous.
Trench coat for doorra he went full trench coat Fedora.
So the kicker for this is that she says, don't worry, though,
the queen will give you, quote, unequivocal proofs of her
protection and benevolence. And he's like, okay, okay, I'm in,
(28:36):
I'm in. So Sean leads the cardinal to this opening
in a clearing and he sees this figure, you know,
sort of silhouetted in the darkness, and he also goes
all in. You know, his heart's probably racing, he's probably
really freaked out. He walks to this figure and he
(28:56):
kneels at her feet and she, by the way, is Nicole, right,
the new barone, And she is not sure what to do,
so she just thrust this rose toward him, and she
kind of hides her face with her fan, and she
says that she couldn't remember exactly what she said in
(29:19):
the conversation, but the cardinal claimed that he heard her say,
you may believe the past will be forgotten. So boom,
there we go. It appears that for all intents and purposes,
this cardinal has met the Queen, and the Queen is good,
and she has appeared to back up all the fake
(29:41):
letters that this cardinal has been receiving. And Rohan essentially
just really wanted to see the queen, and he saw
what he wanted to see. A little bit later, he
received a written request on this paper. This was always
blue bordered paper because it was from that one stationary shop.
(30:03):
He received a request for sixty thousand francs to help
an impoverished family. And again, let's remember this guy's job
is to distribute money to the poor. So he goes
through with that, and then in the beginning of seventeen
eighty five, another request arrives. Get this, it's ordering him
to negotiate the purpose of a certain diamond necklace. That's right,
(30:27):
thought we forgot No, we just set it up in
a weird way.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I was wondering we were going to come back around
to it myself. Then I was too, So she gets
this letter. There's a lot of backstory here, right, Noel
gets this letter from the Queen saying, hey, set this
up for me, help me buy this necklace. And the
problem here is that these crown jewelers that we mentioned earlier,
(30:52):
Boehmer and Bassinge, as you said, have been trying for
years and years and years to sell this super ostentatious, extravagant,
opulent necklace that had how many diamonds. Yeah, it was
like pushing six fifty six hundred and fifty stones, twenty
eight hundred carrots.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Huge, huge, again, extravagant, opulent, ostentatious, all those words, all
the words, and they have been presenting this to the
King and the Queen turned it down and they knocked
some money off the price, but it was still considered
too much.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, that was reduced to somewhere in the neighborhood of
one point six million. And this is news to me, guys.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Livre which is a different currency from the fronc, and
that's the franc wasn't around until seventeen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
So let's she clarify that. That's right. And I think
we talked about some payoffs being in francs earlier in
the show. Was not a thing yet. The livra which
Casey being on the case, as he tends to be
clued us into that that actually means a book.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, booker a pound, Casey on the case, Thanks for
saving the show man every time speak behind the curve
of folks. Every time we do an episode concerning the
French language. Now we have learned. We've learned to check
with Casey slightly in advance so that we don't put
(32:12):
over on the spot by saying. There was one episode
where we said, hey, Casey, can you just translate this
entire paragraph for us?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And he was like, guys, I need a little a
little time.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It wasn't been modern French.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I'm not just here like French monkey, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So you're right, it's very important. This is a currency.
The cost is reduced. They still can't sell this because
it's like it's like a gold plated ferrari, you know
what I mean. It's just a lot. It's too much.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And how much would it have taken for something to
be too extravagant and expensive for the Queen of France, right,
not exactly known for their penny pinching ways or like,
you know, keeping things modest.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
That's true, and so Sean sees this opportunity, and she
talks to her buddy, the cardinal, and she says, hey,
will you help the queen buy this necklace and the
payment will be made in four installments over two years,
and he is down to clown. He is on board.
So the jewelers are overwhelmed with joy. They are elated.
(33:24):
Someone is gonna buy this. The Queen is gonna buy this.
We're gonna yeah, we'll give you the necklace and then
you'll just pay us off in those four installments over
two years. So on the first of February seventeen eighty five,
the jewelers Boemer and Bissinge give the necklace to the cardinal.
The cardinal gives it to Sean and Jean. What does
(33:45):
she do? Does she make four payments over two years? Now?
Does she say, hey, I was lying to you? What
does she do?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
She just kind of books it with the goods? You know,
she's the real puppa man in this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
The guys are so say, I know I say it
too much, but I love that film Usual Suspects.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, man. She ghosts. And then on
July twelfth of that year, the jewelers send a letter
to the queen. Boehmer specifically sends a letter to the
Queen and mentions the necklace. The Queen doesn't know what's
going on, so she just shreds her mail.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
What's this nonsense?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
What is right in the royal shred? She says, that's
a quote in her voice, And.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The jeweler is not getting any word, and he waits
and waits and waits, and so later in August he
sends a letter to one of Maya Toinette's ladies in waiting,
and he's like, hey, you know, not to be weird
about it, but I'm really surprised that you guys still
owe me money for this necklace. You are you know,
your friends, the Queen of France. I don't know how
(34:54):
to like make this not awkward? Can you can you
give me some liv Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Exactly. And this is when the proverbial ish hits the fan,
when the lady in waiting, Madame Campont, takes this information
back to the Queen, who then is like, wait a minute,
something's funky here. I need an explanation. What's going on?
So in August fifteenth, right before a mass at the
(35:21):
Royal Chapel. Rohan receives a convocation from the King of France.
Right as he was leaving, he is arrested in the
Hall of Mirrors and he's completely flabbergasted. Everyone else is
just in shock. And that is when this news of
this scandal was about to reach critical mass.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yes, and that is not hyperbole at all, So this
becomes a huge to do a brew haha if you will.
The Cardinal goes before the Parliament to May of seventeen
eighty six. Surprisingly, he's declared innocent. They track down Sean
(36:05):
and her team and they are arrested and she, for
the crime of being a con artist, is branded with
a hot iron and she's the hot iron brand that
she receives is a capital V, and that stands for
thief in French. What's that word casey volure voaleure thief
(36:27):
a genuine scarlet letter. And although the Queen is innocent,
her reputation is tarnished. You know, she can't walk back
from that. She may have won in the court of
the law, but she has failed in the court of
public opinion. And from that point on, she really really
wanted the absolute worst for the Cardinal, for Rohan, who
(36:50):
she already didn't care for, who she already didn't care for.
Great point. So although the cardinal was acquitted, it didn't
help that the Queen of the Cune hated this dude.
So he loses all his offices and he is exiled.
And then our anti hero of the story, Sean, for
(37:11):
this crime, this diamond hoax, is sentenced to be flogged.
She's got the hot v on her and she is
going to prison for life. At least that was her sentence.
She later escapes to England and publishes publishes a hit
piece on the queen, so she doesn't really feel bad.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Pretty brazen this one, huh.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and she made it out, but the Queen didn't
make it out unscathed.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
No, she never really recovered from this. I mean, it's
interesting because she really didn't do anything. All this stuff
happened under her nose. She was used at the center
of this kind of like diamond heist as sort of
like a patsy, kind of a weird fall guy. And
in what way was she a fall guy? Well, her
reputation took an absolute nosedive. Not that I mean, as
(38:05):
we know already not the most popular government in terms
of the incredible gulf between the rich and the poor,
and the sense that these folks, these mucky munks are
just living it up, you know, at the hotel Versailles
doing their thing, and the rest of the you know,
common folks are just scrapping in the streets for food.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
It's like in ley Miz. We've seen lay Miz just
like that. Yeah, but this just cements that reputation for
utter moral bankruptcy. And as an article in Britannica about
the affair of the diamond necklace puts it, frivolity, just
this sense of the let the meat cake thing, which
(38:45):
we know is not a real thing, but just that's
what is encapsulated here in this whole affair. It's like
they are so clueless, so out of touch.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's one of the this is but one of the
incidents leaded up to what we call the French Revolution today.
And it's strange because I don't know about I don't
know about you folks, but I had not heard of this,
I like many of us here in the US, and
I had a sort of a vague outline or chronology
(39:15):
of the French Revolution and the transformation of its government.
But I had no idea there was a diamond heist.
They should be telling more people about this in school.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Everybody likes a good diamond heist. Everybody likes a good hoax.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That's true. And this concludes our story of the affair
of the diamond Necklace, or, as you said earlier, Noel,
the scandal.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Here's my question, Ben, how do you of fence an
item like that? You go to England, you go to
a different country, you sell it to another monarchy.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Maybe you break it down and just sell the diamonds.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
That's probably what you'd have to do, because surely there
would be apbs out for this thing across the land.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I always wonder about Europe. Yeah, I always wonder about that.
With art hoaxes and unique items, you know, like someone
steals a priceless painting, how do you fence that? Who
do you sell it to? Do you go on Craigslist?
I don't know. I've never I've done a lot of
things in my life, but I have yet to steal
and fence priceless artwork. Hey, maybe twenty nineteens my year. Man.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, here's the thing too. Are there like shadowy you
know collectors that are the ones who are brazen enough
to buy that stuff, and that's where they keep that
in their secret gallery, right, that's like behind like a
bookshelf or whatever. You got to walk in.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It was a really interesting article I had read a
few weeks back that was positing a lot of artwork
we see in public museums is actually forged, with the
real pieces being, as you said, in secret galleries.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
You think that's likely?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I'm not sure? But have you seen the movie? Can
you ever forgive me?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I think I have?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Wait? Well, it's with what's your name? Melissa McCarthy. It
was pretty recent. It's about she's like kind of a
failed writer. Oh yeah, it's a true story where she
got that best friend who's yeah, the British guy whose
name I'm forgetting right now, but I love him. He
was in with Nayla and I and some other Yeah. Yeah.
But her whole thing is and this isn't a spoiler
if you don't want a mild spoiler about this movie.
And it's what the movie's about, but you don't know
(41:06):
it right away. She ends up, you know, she's hard,
down on her luck, and she ends up forging letters
from famous famous dead writers and you know, socialites, and
then she's really good at and she's really good at
it and she gets the wit and all of that down.
That's the same with like being able to forge a
work of art, right, you have to really nail it.
It's more than just making a copy. You almost have
(41:27):
to have like the soul of the artist and be
able to copy that.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I would watch. I would watch The Affair of the
Diamond Necklace were it a film. And speaking of films,
let us do what are some of your favorite heist films?
What are some of your favorite stories of appalling opulence
from various royal families of time gone by?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
You can find us on Facebook. You can find us
on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram. You can
hang out with our favorite part of the show, your
fellows on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. That's the one.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
That's the one, Yeah, the one we were talking about
the top of the show, where you can follow the
beef between me and Christopher hastiotis about whether or not
Mandy's a good film?
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Is that what you guys were talking on it is?
Why doesn't I saw what I saw him on it?
I saw. He said that he would watch it again.
But it's like, the thing is, I went to so
much trouble trying to get this to play at the Plaza.
He didn't even go well.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
He didn't like it. He hated the movie. He literally
just wrote to me episode I told him about this beef.
I said, this beef is now ridiculous history Cannon and
he goes Episode one thirty two, the time Noel Brown
revealed how historically wrong he was about Mandy. Now I've
got I've got an ally in this fight for Mandy.
I mean, you were there all along, Ben, But I
think we need to we need to sit down with
Christopher and set the record straight.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna be Sweden on this.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I've never let someone else's opinion of a film interfere
with how I feel about it, So I'm not gonna
absolutely not. But he's really doubling down on this. I
don't negotiate with terrorists. He's borderline entering character assassination territory.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I did not negotiate with terrorists.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
That's fair. Was that like a JFK voice kind of No,
that's just that's my real voice. Okay, got it. But yeah,
if you want to follow this ongoing saga, check us
out on Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. If you want to
check us out on Instagram. We mainly just post like
new episodes and stuff. But if you want to check
out me and Ben's personal exploits, you can follow me
at Embryonic Insider.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And you can follow me at Ben Bullen. Currently, I
am snacking on pizzerias or I'm about to, because this
is one of my favorite long gone chips and I
think I just found a way to get a bag.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Ben. When I heard you say that, you said snacking
on pizzerias, I was picturing you like like eating like
all the pizza available, and.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
The building, like the stone, the benches.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
You're you're sort of like, what's that French guy who
ate all the things? I think? I think gate a baby.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I don't know anybody who eats babies.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I don't know about this.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Now there's a Brazilian guy who you know what we
should save this. This is a story for another day.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Hey, I just want to point out I googled French
guy who ate a baby. His name was Terraar and
he was born in rural France nearly on in seventeen
seventy two, and his whole thing was he would eat anything.
He was actually hospitalized in a psychiatric ward where it
is conjectured that he possibly ate a baby.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Well, there's also this goes back to the super the
super stomics, right, the super eaters. That's right, there's a
guy in Brazil who's done the same thing. And we're
not talking about the survivors of the crash in the
andes On. You know, the basis or the inspiration for
the movie Alive.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
All right, I'll see you next time, folks. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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