June 6, 2026 • 54 mins
In this week's Classic episode: Have you ever dreamed about shedding your old identity, casting aside your obligations and becoming an entirely different person? Susanna Caroline Matilda, narrowly escaping death after stealing from the Queen, did just that upon arriving at the American colonies. Join Ben, Casey and returning guest Christopher Hassiotis as they unravel the strange story of the Colonial Grifter Princess.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with some
peak ridiculous history. Back in twenty nineteen, we learned the
story of someone called Susannah, Caroline, Matilda.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, I do love three first names. It's always a
good time. You may see in the title of this episode.
She was considered a colonial grifter, princess, an elite grifter.
She got up to all kinds of shenanigans, narrowly escaping
death after stealing from the queen. Boy oh boy, she
really lived on the edge. And what I love about
(00:34):
this one is we are featuring none other than a
friend of the show, a brother, a compatriot in podcast
Arms named Christopher Hasiotis. This is the guy that we
shout out at the end of every episode, so please
please check.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
In, folks. He is way smarter than either of us.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And he's not only here in spirit and this one
he's here corporeally, and I am presiding over the proceedings spiritually,
but not there corporeally. I'm replaced in this episode by
our previous and long suffering producer, Casey Pegram for this
really cool conversation that I'm bummed that I missed, but
y'all are going to benefit from him.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeart Radio.
Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show,
(01:51):
Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for tuning in. Casey,
can we get a little sort of you know, genericly
Colonial times US in the background? Perfect, We've got a
pitch for you today, folks. Have you ever thought about
changing your identity? Have you ever felt that you should
(02:14):
break free of the bonds of your previous life and
become someone else entirely? That's a question we're addressing today.
I'm Ben, my co host nol Is off on adventures. However,
we have a very special episode for you today with
a very special guest, our returning friend of the show.
(02:37):
Thanks for classing up the place yet again, Christopher Hasiotis.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Hey, thanks for having me. Guys, I can't promise I
can fill Nole's chair, but I will do my darnedest.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I am incredibly excited about this. We didn't we We've
teased your return for some time over the previous epade.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, set expectations, Thank you very high.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, we asked people to write it in immediately
as soon as they heard your voice. But we didn't
tell We didn't tell everyone that you would be coming
on for this and maybe some other episodes in the future.
But we're quite excited to have you. Thank you so much.
I know you've been traveling a lot recently, right.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, We've got a lot of really great new shows
in the works for the iHeart Podcast Network. So listeners,
if you big ridiculous history, keep your eyes on your
screens and your ears on. I don't know what, Ben,
you're better at promoting than I am. What do you say?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Oh, ears to the wind, Keep.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Your ears to the wind of the podcast realm. There
you go.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh, keep your eyes peeled, your ears to the ground right.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Right, and fingertips at the mercy of your soul.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I like the gravitas the Basically, I just want everyone
listening to scroll through their iPhones or their Samsungs or
what have you and subscribe to whatever strikes your fancy.
This is just a long, ridiculous way of saying, yes, Ben,
thank you for having me on. I have been up
to a lot lately. We're putting together a great slate
of new shows coming to the network. All centered around
(04:12):
food and travel and stories of humanity and how all
those things relate to our lives. I will have a
lot more information for you and the listeners of Ridiculous History,
probably in the next month or two, about some really
really great shows that they can watch out for and
hopefully subscribe to and really really dig So in the meantime,
I've just got time to sit here in a booth
(04:34):
with you, which makes me super joyful.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh thank you. Also, of course, we are not diving
into Ridiculous History alone. We are joined as always with
our super producer, Casey Pegram give it up for them, folks.
Casey aar, why I stop like you are also going
to put it in a plaus Q. But Christopher has
(04:58):
just given us a delight full, tantalizing, I would say,
exclusive teaser, because this is the first time we've talked
about some of these projects on air.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, on this show. Yeah, that's right, And so.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
We'll say no more. You pay for the whole seat,
you only need the edge. Check back in in a
month or so and we may have we may have
some new news for you. However, Christopher, you noticed at
the very top of the show we set up the
concept of changing one's identity. Have you ever have you
(05:30):
ever thought about this?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I remember when I was in college, I was at
a rock and roll club and someone had taped on
the wall of one of the restrooms, you know, over
all the terrible band stickers and the graffiti and the
cigarette burns and the scars scratched into the wall, someone
had taped something that said, reinvent yourself, start a new life.
(05:54):
And it was basically not quite an anarchist cookbook, but
directions on how to access a manifests on how to
essentially fake your own death and seize a new identity.
And there was just some sort of narrative, well, who
is going around spreading these pamphlets around rock and roll
clubs in the late nineties and early two thousands. So
(06:14):
I don't know how many how many people out there
are living under assumed identities. You know, we can't all
be Don Draper. But if there is anywhere that's prime
for reinvention and developing a new persona and reinventing yourself,
I mean, I think the United States of America is like,
(06:35):
that's one of the HotBits for it, right, That's one
of the things that we do. We burst forth from
the shackles of our past. We reinvent ourselves. We set
aside our family histories, we invent new family histories. We
just present ourselves as we hope to be. And a
lot of times people just kind of buy it. That's true,
that's so true. The word of the day I'll introduce
(06:57):
here is a pseudo side. That's the technical term for
faking one's death or intempting to do so. And today's
episode hinges on, yeah, just as you said it, Man,
hinges on a fundamentally American idea. We have a somewhat
romanticized or idealized concept of this, of this purposeful reinvention,
(07:21):
this resurrection, rebirth by design, but we don't often talk
about the real life cases, you know, in which these
sorts of tropes occur. And today's story is about a
person who did just that, who reinvented herself. And that's
(07:43):
the sort of thing that normally is it's praised right
to come from humble beginnings to set yourself up to
a life that's that's grander than anything you could have
imagined or that your parents could have set out for you. Normally,
it's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Is that the case here, Well, let's dig into it.
How about that. Let's dig into it and then maybe
at the end you and I can make the call,
and fellow listeners please chime in and let us know
what your take is after you hear the entirety of
the story, because it's important to hear the entirety of
this particular tale. Our story today begins with a woman
(08:20):
named Sarah Wilson. She was born in a Staffordshchild village
in seventeen fifty four, and she was i'd be relatively
well off, not super destitute, because her father was a
professional and he's a bailiff. However, they did have money problems,
(08:41):
and the money problems were such that at the age
of sixteen, Sarah is sent away from home and she
is sent to London to look for employment. This was
not terribly uncommon during this time.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, it's not. She came from humble beginnings. You know,
it's this West Midlands region of England. It's not super industrialized.
She's looking for more opportunity, like many people do. She
heads to the big city. There are some suggestions maybe
she wasn't just looking for money, Maybe she was off
to seek her own ideas of fortune and fame and
kind of build a name for herself, whatever that might mean.
(09:17):
But she does head to London and within a few
weeks she finds work. She's working as a maid for
a woman named Caroline Vernon, and Caroline Vernon was a
lady in waiting for Queen Charlotte, now Queen Charlotte, Queen
of England, but born in Germany. Spoke German German accent
when she's speaking English. You know, this is the sort
(09:40):
of thing where, looking back three four or five hundred
years from especially the vantage point of the United States,
where royalty is a bit of a novelty, we don't
realize how little national borders and family lineage crisscrossed, and
one may or may not have informed the other. So
you have German nationals who are actually the King of England.
(10:02):
You have people from Austria ruling Greece. You have the
mix of whatever blend of Austro Hungarian Habsburg that situation
ruling over bits and pieces of Europe. So it's sort
of like a dual layer in Europe. And it's I
always like to think that the movies just get it wrong,
because everyone's speaking with the same accent, whether it's an
(10:24):
accurate accent or not, it's generally somewhat uniform, whereas it's
maybe not the case then. But I've fallen down a
rabbit hole just talking about historical specificity.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think it's a great point, though, and you've picked
the right show to do this on, because it may
be difficult for many of us in twenty nineteen, in
these our modern days, to understand that it was normal
for the rulers of a country to be completely foreign
(10:55):
in most what we would consider completely foreign in today's terms,
and quote unquote qualified for their position entirely due to
their ancestry. And that's that's what happens. There's a feedback
loop around this time and the centuries preceding it, wherein
you know, if you are a member of a powerful family,
(11:16):
you want your children to only marry members of other
powerful families, and so things get mixed. I'm not making
an inbreeding joke. I'm just saying that's how the thrones
end up being collected and consolidated and passed around.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I will say that this
discussion of languages and accents does come into play a
little later on Sarah Wilson's story.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yes, nice foreshadowing. Yes, okay, So Sarah quickly ingratiates herself.
She is a people person, a slick talker. At this point,
she is playing the role of the perfect maid as
far as Lady and Waiting Caroline Vernon is concerned.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, and she's working at the Queen's House, which if
you or I were to go to London, or any
of the listeners wanted to go to London and go
check out the Queen's House, you can't find it because
what's now there is Buckingham Palace, a little larger, a
little more grand, but that original Queen's House. But that's
the region of London we're talking about. It's still, you know,
the seat of royal power.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Right, quite prestigious. Yes, and at the Queen's House where
as you said, Christopher, Buckingham Palace now stands. Sarah frequently
saw the actual Queen, the wife of King George the Third,
and she quickly, in addition to ingratiating herself with the
upper crust of this community, she also familiarized herself intimately
(12:49):
with the scuttle but the gossip, the things that only
the maids and the butlers and what Downton Abbey would
call the downstairs people were aware of and this got
to her. You know what I mean, because we know
how human psychology works. It has not changed for many
thousands of years. Happiness is often defining comparative terms. So
(13:12):
she is, she's smart, she's quick witted. She has escaped
her small town and done more than many people in
her town would have done. But then she looks around
and she sees, you know, this opulence and these lives
of leisure, and she says, I'm paraphrasing here, why not
me where they got that?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I ain't got That's right? Yeah, I want to get
me some of that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's that's a quote, that's you exactly. I think that
was on some plaque somewhere in some dusty tone. But yeah,
that's the thing. So Sarah Wilson being around royalty, knowing royalty,
knowing the comings and goings of royalty, that wasn't enough
for her. She wanted to get a piece of the action,
have a slice for herself, carve out a little nook
(13:58):
in that world. Or maybe she just wanted the things
that she knew she would never ever have on her
own and I mean, this is such a stratified culture
at the time. It still is in many ways. But
when you come from completely humble backgrounds and you are
spending your day around someone who is wearing let's say,
(14:19):
a ring or a crown, or today a pair of sneakers,
or you know, you drive a car that is essentially
worth what your family could make in a decade, and
this is just a trinket to this person. That wealth
imbalance creates tension, and most people in the world can
(14:40):
handle that. Some people can't. And Sarah Wilson was one
of those people. So there was a night when she
was by herself in the Queen's room. She snuck into
a closet, breaks into this cabinet and she takes some jewelry,
some dresses, a ring, and a little miniature portrait of
Queen Charlotte. So it's like, you know, we don't have
(15:00):
an image of what it looks like, but I imagine
it's one of those little sort of cameo portraits. So
maybe a little silhouette, just something that would be a keepsake,
something that a family member of Queen Charlotte would keep
and would you know, would refer to to lovingly remember
their relative. So she takes all these things for herself.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and she thinks it's no big deal. No one's
going to find out for Pete's sake. This is the
Queen of England.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Right, She's got countless dresses, countless rings, dads of Julia. Yeah.
But the thing is they were not countless. They were counted,
accounted frequently. As is the case with sometimes people of
immense wealth, they also are immensely focused on the things
that make them wealthy. And so Queen Charlotte was no different.
(15:50):
She kept fastidious inventory of her inventory. She knew what
she had, and she knew when something was missing. So
very very very soon after Sarah took these items, they're
notice missing. So the Queen says, all right, we don't
know who did this. I need someone to keep an
(16:10):
eye on.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I thought that was quite clever too.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah. I mean, you don't want to just go off
and start accusing people willy nilly. That might fly with
some royals. Not Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Not Queen Charlotte. No, she sets up a surveillance operation
and think about how many servants must exist in a
royal household. So there's clearly going to be several factions,
and there's also going to be some servants that she
trusts completely and then some that are still a little green,
(16:45):
and then some that she doesn't really interact with. So
we can only imagine that she goes to one of
the servants she legitimately trusts someone or some people with
whom she spent years and years right, and she asked
these people to watch not just the room, but this
particular closet. And this is where Sarah Wilson makes her
(17:09):
first error.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, I mean the criminal returning to the scene of
the crime. It's a trope in crime fiction, but that's
because it happens. That's human nature. You know, maybe your
prime criminal would go for the big score and then
never touch that room again, never go back. But Sarah
was not a professional criminal. She knew she got away
with something once, so she went back to the well again,
(17:33):
or in this case, the cabinet. Yes, but this time,
you know that law and order style stakeout whatever was
going on. It worked, and Sarah Wilson was caught in
the act of trying to rob Queen Charlotte once again.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So this is very very very bad news. The way
the laws work at the time, Sarah Wilson is charged
with theft and violation of the royal privacy.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And that's serious.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That is serious. Yeah, that is serious.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
How serious?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
More so than more so than theft, a violation of
the royal privacy carries with it the death sentence.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Oh that's serious.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yes, So she receives the death sentence, and her original employer,
Lady in waiting Vernon, has not given.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Up on her. That's Caroline Vernon, right, Yes, that is.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Lady car Lady in waiting, Caroline Vernon, and Caroline takes
it upon herself to personally plead to Queen Charlotte please
spare Sarah.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
She's made a mistake. But she maybe is a good girl.
She comes from a good background. She's I like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Her, and she's so young, right, she's what's how young?
Sixteen seventeen at this age? So her please work somewhat,
and her punishment, the death sentence is commuted to what
they called transportation.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
That sounds nice, it does, it does.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So she was just on subways.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, so where'd they transport her?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They transported her transportation? We should say it was a
didn't mean the same thing it means today. Transportation was
forcible exile. Oh, it's deportation. Got to be the closest
analog we have today, right, So in July seventeen seventy one,
she is placed on a prison ship and sent to Baltimore, Maryland.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
It's a long transportation, it's a long ride.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It is long. You wouldn't want to put the Uber
bill for that. However, things get worse because when she
arrives in the what would become the United States.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So this is it's seventeen seventy one, who were five
years before? Right, everything kind of comes together still.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Just colonies colonies, yep. And she is not put in prison,
she has not given some sort of state level employment
or colonial level employment. She is put up for auction
and sold as a slave.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So she can't just kind of do her own thing
in the United States or in what would become the
United States. She's just in Maryland, transported there against her will,
although maybe willingly because otherwise the other option is to
be put to death. But then she's just in servitude.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, it's looking grim for Sarah. At this point, she's
sold to a fellow named W. Dval. He is a
planter from Bush Creek, Frederick County.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Do you know what she was doing for mister Devaal.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I have not seen too much detail about that.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
That makes sense though, because I think she wasn't with
him for long.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right, right, right, She wasn't with him for long. And
at this case, you know, it's it's an unpleasant thing
to imagine, but physical abuse was prevalent with people who
were enslaved in this manner slavery in general. So while
we do not have confirmed records of what happened during
(21:06):
her time there, we know that she did not spend
very long there at all. As you said, Christopher, she
sought to improve her situation almost immediately, right she escapes
to Virginia lickety split, and she doesn't just go with
the clothes on her back. This is the weirdest part
of this story.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, this is the sort of thing where our lack
of a time machine is just really a bummer, because
I want to know the details of how this exactly happened.
When she escapes, she still has in her possession, which
means she brought over with her on her transportation from Britain.
She still had one of the rings she stole, she
(21:45):
still had some dresses, and she still had that miniature
portrait of Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But how do you have that?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I don't know. I mean, we like to think that
systems of power are in place and everyone does everything perfectly,
but anyone who has ever dealt with let's say, the police,
or the local county clerk or the ten and collector whoever. Yeah,
sometimes people who are supposed to be doing their jobs,
you know, they check the wrong box, they forget a comma,
(22:15):
and then when you go back to renew, they say, wait,
you're not even in our system. And you say, but
I was in your system. I had a hyphen in
my name and you took it out, and they don't
know what you're talking about. And then all of a
sudden you say, I had a thing of Queen Charlotte
and where is her? And no, I promised this dress
is mine. And I think that's probably how it happened.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And the romantic in me, you know, the fan of
fiction at least, has this this cinematic moment stuck in
my head, which almost certainly didn't happen wherein the queen says,
and take these garments with you, take them. Hence they
are soiled, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
They've been touched by the poor.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, they Yes, they've been touched by the boor, which
should also be a crime.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So at this point we although we're gonna be with
her for the rest of this story, we kind of
say goodbye to Sarah Wilson. We do. We say goodbye
to Sarah Wilson, and we say hello to Princess Susannah
Caroline Matilda, sister of Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Forced into exile in the colonies following a very enigmatic
family scandal.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Oh, you don't want to talk about it. It's too hard,
it's impolite. Now, it's royalty. It's not the sort of
thing you bring up at a polite dinner conversation in Virginia
when you are a princess.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When you are a princess. And also, it would be
violating the privacy of the royal family, and who would
want to do that. That's a crime.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
That's terrible.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So this is strange. First off, the hutsba alone, you know,
congratulations to Princess Susannah Caroline Matilda. This is the kind
of con that is difficult to pull off. However, she
has several powerful things working to her advantage. First, as
(24:08):
you mentioned, Christopher, she has all this stuff. Probably the
most powerful or most impactful of the material possession she
has for her new identity will be that miniature portrait
because of the sentimental value you mentioned earlier. But also
and equally as important here, she has intimate knowledge of
(24:29):
life in the royal court.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, she's on the other side of an ocean, but
she can still talk to people about the goings on
at the Queen's house, who's speaking with whom, and who's
falling out with whom, and how things are going upstairs
and downstairs. And you know, she's presenting herself as Susannah
Caroline Matilda, which I should also add of Mecklenburg Strelitz.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Oh, yes, yes, very important.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, the Mecklenburg Strelitz is a Northern German dynasty sort
of who you know, Queen Charlotte was part of that
family and they've had their bloodline influencing royalty throughout Europe.
But as the former Sarah Wilson is presenting herself as
Susannah Caroline Matilda princess, you know, she really harnesses I
(25:15):
think a bit of nostalgia for what's going on back
to because again, a lot of the people living in
the United States or what would become the United States
still think of themselves as British subjects as you know,
not as American citizens. To them, the stories of the queens,
stories of the king, stories of what's happening in London,
(25:36):
those to them are stories from home. And so there
is that nostalgia and that yearning. And apparently Princess Susannah
really had an easier end with some of the older
generation in Virginia, the ones who still thought of themselves
as British, as English, and you know, she could tell
(25:57):
them what was going on and kind of let them
relive there and maybe it's been decades since they were
back home.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And there's also this there's also this interesting mechanism that
could occur whenever you're working with nostalgia, which is she
could mention a name or a title that these people,
especially the Old Guard, would have been familiar with, and
then let them fill in the blanks based on the
(26:25):
scant information she actually had. And when she does that,
they would feel that they were learning something new, but
just as importantly, they would feel that they were displaying
their knowledge and therefore they were still people with their
what do we say, with their ear to the wind,
their eyes peeled under.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
There, toenails to the grindstone, something like that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Sure, yes, their fingers and the toenails on the pulse,
so they would still feel relevant. Having this knowledge, we
can also, I think reasonably assume that even for the
people who were not the older generation, there was tremendous
social cachet to be had in hosting not just a
(27:11):
member of English aristocracy, but the sibling of the Queen.
And you know already again seventeen seventy one, seventeen seventy two.
As you said, we're just a few years out from
the revolutionary war as we call it in this country.
And this also plays into displays of loyalism.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Well that's the thing. So, you know, Princess Susannah is
telling people she's been sent to the colonies because of
some falling out back home. She can't get into the details,
but she will soon be restored to her rightful position
back home. Ah, yes, and that's you know. So she's
at these dinner parties, at these salons, at these social events, mingling,
(27:56):
whining and dining, and so people are eager to really
buy into the story because if she's telling the truth,
even if there's doubt in their minds. If she's telling
the truth, they are now socially connected to a princess.
So if she's restored to power, Let's say they need
a favor. Let's say they have a son who needs
a high paying position at a company. Let's say they
(28:18):
need some land grants. Let's say they need to, gosh,
I don't know, raise an army for whatever they want
to do, whatever that might be. Yeah, you know, old
rich people, they got things armies can do.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
That is absolutely true. There is a third advantage that
this part of American colonial society sees, and that's you know,
I can pay you, princess, since we are such very
good friends. The typical let's call it an administrative fee,
not a bribe, but the typical administrative fee that would
(28:54):
be expected in order to have myself or a relation
of mine granted a position maybe on the court, maybe
associated with it somehow, with some government organ or body
as soon as you return, and we know that will
be soon. So they saw this as an investment in
(29:15):
many ways. They were they they were actually giving This
is where the con part comes in. They were actually
giving Princess Susannah currency.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
They were giving her money cash money, yes, yash money. Yes.
They speaks just as strongly three hundred years ago as
it does today, but also gifts. You know, I imagine
places to stay, access to carriages, you know, a nice
a nice bedroom for a week, or wardrobe, all that stuff. Here.
(29:46):
Have a horse, yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
We've all been in that situation. Here. You look, take
this horse.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
This one for me, whichever one, princess, whichever one you
want to and you make me feel like one. Chris,
take you Christo.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Learned it all from Casey Pegrove. But you know what,
these sorts of shenanigans are increasingly difficult to pull off
over time.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Over time. And so she went all over the colonies.
This wasn't just Virginia, this wasn't just Maryland. She was
in Georgia, she was in the Carolina. She met the
governor of North Carolina. I mean, this is like high level,
high level stuff. She has access. But people have some questions.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's right, and they want to be very careful with
the manner in which they poose these questions.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
To someone like Princess Susannah Carolina Matilda's sister to the
queen family of Macklenburg. Strelitz nailed it. Not only but
she had a couple other aliases too. She also went
by the Marquisonis de Walde Grave. She was also known
as the Princess of Cronenberg.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No association with the director that we know of, that
we know of, Yes, it's very fair. Yeah. She would
use these names on different occasions, and she would, as
you said, travel widely. She was meeting tremendously influential people,
and folks were starting to ask questions because in these
(31:08):
circles there would be people who speak German.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, if she was supposedly from Germany, raised in Germany, Yeah,
how come you don't speak German?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Right, she refused to perhaps because of the quarrel, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Or she was in the new in the new world,
speaking a new language. But even then she spoke perfect English.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Flawless English.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah you know why, because she was English.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh yeah, kiser SoSE a moment for me. Yeah, but yeah,
people people were saying, well, that's weird because I have
been speaking English for decades and decades and decades. I
grew up speaking German and I still have a little
bit of an accent, you know. What I mean, So
why is she flawless with it? And then there was
(31:55):
another question that seems very obvious to us in retrospect.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Well, that's it's the one where everyone thinks, wait a minute,
does Queen Charlotte have a sister?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Right? Why haven't I heard of her?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Maybe maybe she's able to turn it around and really
play on people's insecurities and say, maybe I wasn't important
enough to know about the Queen's sister.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, Or maybe you're not. Yeah, maybe you're not as
plugged in as you want other people at this dinner
party to believe. And so people probably for some time
that strategy is effective, and people are reticent to voice
their concerns because they don't want to seem to be
the odd person out.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Might I also suggest that maybe men act a little
dumb in the presence of someone who might be a princess.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think that is an excellent suggestion, having not, to
my knowledge at this point in life, interacted with a princess.
I can't speak from experience, but I feel like that
is I feel like that is, unfortunately a very stute observation.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Men can be dumb no way.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So you're right, though, that's a good point. That's one
that a lot of historians don't talk about.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well, it's not necessarily brought up. It's not like all
these people who are giving her gifts are described as
as suitors particularly, but knowing men, knowing that sort of
patriarchal society that was in place at the time, I
have to imagine that some of these people who are
wealthy landowners in the colonies, meeting a single young princess
(33:29):
applying her with gifts might have some motives of marrying
into royalty or other motives. Yeah. Absolutely, And men will
do dumb things, yes, when they have those motives. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean I would say people in general. But in
this situation, it's only fair to note that that trend
toward thick headedness is probably accelerated in men.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
So the scam didn't hold.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
The scam did not hold because speaking of men, we
have to reintroduce a character that briefly appeared earlier in
the tale, a mister w Devall, who it turns out,
is not happy about Sarah Wilson as he knew.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Her, and maybe not that dumb of a man, because eventually,
after a couple of years pass he hears a description
of this princess. He hears talk and he probably says,
oh that wow, a princess in the colonies. That's interesting.
What does she look like? And they say, this is
what she looks like, and he says, I know someone
who looks like that, Yes, and it's Sarah Wilson.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And he has been trying to find this the one
that got away. Literally, so it is autumn of seventeen
seventy three. Remember, she's been on the runs since seventeen
seventy one ish, and.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He's been looking for her, actually since seventeen seventy one.
I have here in front of me from the Pennsylvania Gazette,
published on October eleventh, seventeen seventy one, an advertisement for
a runaway slave. And this is what William Devall wrote
in the newspaper back in seventeen seventy one. It took
out an ad run away from the subscriber a convict
(35:12):
servant maid named Sarah Wilson, but has changed name to
Lady Susanna Carolina Matilda, which has made the public believe
that she was His Majesty's sister. And here's where we
get into the realizing what she looked like she has
a blemish in her right eye, black rolled hair, stoops
in the shoulders, makes a common practice of writing, and
marked her clothes with a crown and a bee. Whosoever
(35:35):
secures the said servant woman or takes her home, shall
receive five pistols besides all costs and charges. So if
you find Sarah Wilson, all your expenses are paid and
you get five pistols.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
What a deal.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Five pistols. And I should say, I'm going to applaud
myself for reading that, because this is an old timey
advertisement from an old timey newspaper, and it's got those
medialess's which are such a pain. They look like an
f they do look like without the crossbar. They go
all the way back to old English, and I'm glad
that they're gone. Now, you know the thank thank you
(36:12):
movable type. We don't need all those weird looking s's
that make everything sound like an Act of Congress.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Act of Congress. Yes, yeah, it's true. Those are a pain.
And I applaud your recital there, Christopher.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I applaud Casey for cutting out all of my flubs
love flubs. No, well, that's the thing you use a
curvys at the end, but not at the beginning. So
if it looks like the word flub is flubd, but
the word flubs would to us look like flubs.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And we can only hope that old man Willie D
was going through the same process as he was writing
this advertisement.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So I really really hope at some point there's some
sort of merchandise out there that people can have a
bumper sticker or a a little a little pin, or
some just gaudy T shirt they can wear that says,
you know, I am a proud, ridiculous historian.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's great, Casey, do you like that one?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love that idea historians. Yeah, medial s's for everyone.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Casey on the case. We'll put it to a vote
to let us know what you think about these What
are they called medial.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
A medial s? Yeah, it's it's also known as a
long S because a short S is the short, round
one or curvy or you know, just an Sso as
we would say.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I like the I like the depths of resentment that
are that are emanating across the tape.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Hey, Mat, you didn't have to read this, so I
might we do have another bit of old timy newspaper
right here, I may pass it to you and uh,
and you to the test.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
We've created a monster.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
But months monthter month, monthter.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Monthter, that's fun to say.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I actually we should get back on track. So they're
on the hunt.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, the word is out. And in addition to publicizing
this advertisement and appeal in offering this reward, he sends
he being Willie, sends one of his employees, a man
named Michael Dalton, to retrieve Sarah. Dalton has you know,
(38:26):
he has a certain set of skills. Liam Neeson's style
we can only assume because he does eventually track the
princess down to a plantation in Charleston right after she left,
so he is hot on her wake, hot on her trail.
And then he doesn't give up. He follows the clues
(38:48):
Carmen San Diego style, and he finds her at a
neighboring plantation. He captures her. He takes her back to
that estate in Bush Creek, Frederick County.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And that's in Virginia.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yes, yeah, that's in Virginia.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Is that the end of the story. She just gets
captured and she goes right back into servitude.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, Sometimes things just end I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I'm kidding, Okay, I I mean it's always home on
this pony.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Right, Well, you still have to take some time to
name the pony before before we ride it out, and
I would I would advise something heavy on the f's
and the s's. But this is not the end of
the story, is it, Christopher.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
You know it's not. There's more scamming ahead, as as
may not be so surprising with miss Sarah Wilson. So
Sarah is on the plantation, she's working at this point.
It's seventeen seventy five, though, but Devall's not at home
because he has left the plantation to fight in the
militia for the American War of Independence.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yes, which we now know as the Revolutionary War. And
while he is gone, a very very strange qui sentence
of hers. This is the kind of thing you can't
write in fiction because no one will believe you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yeah, it seems like this seems like a really unsatisfying
end to things because it's just so improbable. But according
to the historical record, this is what happened. Another either
enslaved person or servant girl, also by the name of
Sarah Wilson crosses paths with Sarah Wilson that you and
(40:27):
I and the listeners now.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And this is very vague. We want, we want to
let all of our fellow listeners know. We are very
well aware that this is incredibly vague. Somehow our Sarah Wilson,
the former princess, is able to switch I guess, bodies
or make people confuse the new Sarah Wilson for her.
(40:52):
And then during this confusion, while her owner is away,
while this creep the all is away, she escapes and
this time she heads north.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, the southward direction did not work out so well
for her in the past when she was a princess,
so she splits. She goes north. She leaves Sarah Wilson
the second in place of Sarah Wilson. The first too
bad for Sarah Wilson. The second. I guess. We think
this is the end of her story, although maybe she
was already gonna be on that plantation anyway. And Sarah
Juan was like, oh, no, no, that's Sarah Wilson over there.
(41:25):
Are you looking for Sarah Wilson. That's Sarah. Hey, are
you named Sarah Wilson, And she says, yeah, that's me.
And then she's like, well, I'm just gonna walk away
as you guys go talk to her. And you know,
there's just a lot of this like convincing people and
gift of gab. You know, you've got to really be
a smooth talker. This reminds me of the story a
(41:48):
little bit of that bridge.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, yeah, Tabor Bridge, right, the two French marshals who
decided to con their way across the Daniel.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, you and Noel had a really great episode about this,
and thanks man. Yeah, you know, ridiculous historians. If you
have not listened to that episode, go dig it up.
I mean, we kind of just gave you the surprise ending.
But it's still a great story regardless. There's all sorts
of weird boasting and French chest puffery and you know,
almost bombings and Hungarian Confusion and which, by the way,
(42:23):
really good band name.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I think Hungarian Confusion. That is an excellent band name.
My friend, Yeah, Hungary. I'm hang on, sorry, everybody listening,
I'm gonna write that down.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Okay. Ken's actually just filing for an LLC right now, Yes,
Gary Revolution. But Sarah Wilson, she is not confused about
what she's doing. She heads out of Virginia goes north
and at least for the foreseeable future, lives a somewhat
normal life. Still has a lot of her money, which
(42:57):
she again.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Like, where where is she put it?
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Where does the money go? Where does she keep it?
Are there secret bank accounts? Does she have secret pockets?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Has she literally buried boxes of coin?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Maybe she has just like a lot of hair, Yeah,
just like a huge head of hair, and there's just
like envelopes of money in there. Could be I.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Mean, at the time, it may have been a sound investment.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah, you know, some money sewn into the lining of
a coat or something like that. Anyway, she's got all
this money, and she ends up all the way up
in New York. She actually meets a young military man
named William Talbot.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Or alternatively Sterling.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Oh is that right?
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well sometimes it differs, it depends on the source. But yeah,
she meets this. She meets a nice young man and
he is a military man. He's an officer in the
light Dragoons. And the war transpires. Spoiler alert, This part
of the North American continent becomes a country we call
the United States today.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Part of it.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, you're familiar with its work, and the couple decides
to stay in this new country.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
What are they doing?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Probably they're avoiding arrest For Sarah, she turns to England,
but they also she uses her money. Maybe she did this,
maybe she kept jewelry and then sold the jewelry. That
might have happened. But she uses this money that she
has acquired to set up her husband as a businessman,
(44:30):
and they live, as far as we can tell from
the record, they live happily. Ever after. They have a
lot of kids, and they set up their residence in
the Bowery in New York, which at the time was
a quiet, nice neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Kind of a happy ending for her, it is.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Especially when you consider how close she came to very
very terrible things. I don't know. It also reminds me
in a way. You remember that Disney film Pinocchio, right stories, So,
as a kid, I thought Pinocchio was really cool until
one of my friends later on, years and years later,
pointed out to me that Pinocchio has this horrible lesson
(45:14):
for children in terms of morality.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well, I'll keep it brief. But Pinocchio from his beginning
is told to do the following kind of things or
not do these things so that he can ultimately become
self actualized and be a real boy. He breaks all
of those rules or those commandments or whatever, and then
at the end he gets the reward. Anyway, that's true.
(45:37):
So did Sarah Wilson have a moment? We can tell.
One thing we can tell that differentiates her from other
con artists is that when she got to a good spot,
she stopped. There are other con artists who just can't
give up the game.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Well, there was a point though, you know, And this
is where I'd like more detail about her life. And
I mean this to me seems ripe for some Hollywood
tale and I'd love to see this turn into a
film and really dig into the story. But there was
a time before she met her husband, after she escaped Virginia,
Oh yes, where she she had this little side escapade.
And there's not a lot that I could dig up
(46:15):
about this, but she she teamed up with this with
this criminal who was known by the alias of Tom Bell.
He was an irishman also known as Patrick O'Connor. But
they they kind of worked together for a while and
he introduced himself to people as mister Edward Augustus Montague,
(46:35):
a gentleman of fortune and betrothed lover of Princess Susannah
Carolina Matilda. Yeah, so, I maybe maybe the princess came
back after her her flight from Virginia and before she
settled in New York. Maybe there's this this sort of
interim of her flirting again with this world of intrigue
and all the scams. Yeah, and I don't know much
(46:56):
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
We don't know, Like we as species don't know much
about this part of her life, which makes it by
far one of the most intriguing and fascinating. We don't
know much about Patrick O'Connor or his alias Tom Bell,
but we do know that they did for a brief time.
(47:18):
She did go into a two person con act, and
who knows, maybe they really were betrothed.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
I don't know. I mean, he was a fairly well
known criminal at the time. I mean, this could be
the sort of thing where maybe they pulled off one
last heist and she got out of the life. It's
a sort of you know, like a like a Danny
Ocean kind of situation where she teams up with this
acclaimed crime guy, she gets what she needs and you
know she has her happily ever after.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
You also have to wonder whether the man who ultimately
became her husband knew about her stint as a princess
knew did she tell him her true, true, true story,
or did she say like, maybe I'm an orphan and
this is my family fortune. Yeah, I love you, I
don't want to talk about my past. Let's start a
(48:08):
new life together in the Bowery. And then maybe he
just went head over heels Christopher. Maybe he was just like, well,
I'm in love and being a dude, I'm kind of dumb.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
And I do need some money. I do and I do.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Need some as you said, cash money.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Oh speaking of cash money, Benett, Yes, I thought this
might be a good way to wrap up because I
this is a little off topic, but it's related to
some royalty and some cash money. I wanted to get
your opinion and ridiculous historians. If you have any advice
for me. I got this email from a Nigerian prince.
Oh okay, do tell And he's asking for some money?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Should I help him out?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
How much money is he asking for?
Speaker 3 (48:53):
More than I've got? Oh?
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Okay? Then without having a doctorate, in finance, I would
advise you depending on how much. Well, first, how much
time do you have.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
I don't have enough time. I'll spoiler alert. Yes I'm
not giving this guy any money. But the thing is,
you know, we're talking about this weird scam of someone
putting themselves forth as royalty, and it sounds like the
sort of thing like, oh, this is just a thing
that you know, those historical roubs back in the day
fell for. It's going on still. I in preparing to
(49:28):
come chat with you guys here. I did a little
digging and there was a report last year from the
Security Services ADT. In twenty eighteen alone, people in the
United States fell prey to the Nigerian scams and other
sort of email scams like that where people are just
asking for money to the tune of more than seven
hundred thousand dollars last year alone, and it averaged out
(49:51):
to about two one hundred dollars per person.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
So this this scam of royalty, this desire to buy
into to a story, this ability to be hoodwinked. You know,
I think it's just baked into humanity. It's just who
we are, we want to believe, we want to help.
And if someone says they're a prince or a princess, hey,
why not wow?
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And it gets our inner foxmoulder. Huh. I want to
believe what I was going to advise you to do
off the record, again, not being a doctorate, just between you, Casey,
me and the millions of us listening.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
You're not recording this, Casey, right right, this is all
off the record, perfect. I just don't want this out
in the world. That would be embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
I've read accounts of people who essentially scammed the scammers,
which is on the murky side of unethical pranking.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
What do you talk that is fighting the good fights?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Well, the idea is, you know, they'll say stuff like, sure,
you've contacted me, I do have this money. I will
give you this information, but first I want to know.
First you need to prove something in good faith or whatever.
And I've found situations wherein someone convinced the scammer or
someone who knows the scammer to get a tattoo or
(51:12):
to write essays about Harry Potter and things of that nature. So,
if you have the time and the inclination, and you
don't feel particularly guilty about trolling people, who are trying
to steal from you. Then then I would advise to
find I would advise you to find the funniest prank
to pull.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
We'll check back in.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
We'll check back in, and perhaps, Christopher, one day you
will be known too, as as a genius of the
con because one of the most American things about about
the way we treat con artists here in the US
is that they are often begrudgingly admired, you know what
(51:57):
I mean. The idea of this, this slick talking, clever
individual violating social norms and getting away with it, it's
imprinted into our DNA. And that's why the Providence Rhode
Island Gazette and Country Journal in January of seventeen seventy
four noted that Sarah Wilson is quote the most surprising
(52:19):
genius of the female sex that was ever obliged to
visit America. Let's just walk past that blatant, you know,
misogyny there. They're basically saying smart for a woman, because
they're being jerks. But what they're also doing, and what
I think is more important for our purposes here, is
they are praising the intelligence of this person. They're saying,
(52:44):
this is one of the smartest people in this country.
Too bad they're not a politician or you know, a philanthropist.
Can't win them all, can't win them all. But I
feel like this was a big win for Casey, Nol
and Spirit and I to have you over on the show,
and we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We want
(53:07):
to hear from you. Let us know some of your
favorite historical cons other than the Trojan Horse, other than
that one, you know, that's that's sort of like going
to carry Oka and playing don't Stop Believing.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
And whatever we want to call this con of you
somehow being convinced to let me sit in here and
chat with you guys, feel like I've scammed everyone.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Hey, yeah, that's it. Hey, that's a good question. Is
your name Christopher, isn't it? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Casey.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I believe him. He's just got such a such an
amicable air about him.
Speaker 3 (53:39):
You know, no comment, all right, just call me princess.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Oh wow, you guys are in on this together. Well,
here's hoping that I don't get scammed out of millions
of dollars. But if I do, I'm glad it was
from you. To thank you as always to our super producer,
Casey Pegram. Thank you to Alex Williams, who composed our track.
Thank you to Gabe, our research associate. Christopher, we often
(54:04):
thank you on this show, so it's a little strange
that you're here now. I'm really glad to thank you
in person. Thanks for coming on, man.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
You're welcome. Thank you for having me Bannon, and thanks
for having me ridiculous Historians.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
And stay tuned for our next episode, wherein Christopher and
I will explore not a not a con.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
No, things are going to get a little uh grimeier Gramer,
Gramer grammar Grimeer, just a little dark. Well gross, what fun?
It's still ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Stay tuned
Speaker 2 (54:44):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with some
peak ridiculous history. Back in twenty nineteen, we learned the
story of someone called Susannah, Caroline, Matilda.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, I do love three first names. It's always a
good time. You may see in the title of this episode.
She was considered a colonial grifter, princess, an elite grifter.
She got up to all kinds of shenanigans, narrowly escaping
death after stealing from the queen. Boy oh boy, she
really lived on the edge. And what I love about
(00:34):
this one is we are featuring none other than a
friend of the show, a brother, a compatriot in podcast
Arms named Christopher Hasiotis. This is the guy that we
shout out at the end of every episode, so please
please check.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
In, folks. He is way smarter than either of us.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And he's not only here in spirit and this one
he's here corporeally, and I am presiding over the proceedings spiritually,
but not there corporeally. I'm replaced in this episode by
our previous and long suffering producer, Casey Pegram for this
really cool conversation that I'm bummed that I missed, but
y'all are going to benefit from him.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeart Radio.
Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show,
(01:51):
Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for tuning in. Casey,
can we get a little sort of you know, genericly
Colonial times US in the background? Perfect, We've got a
pitch for you today, folks. Have you ever thought about
changing your identity? Have you ever felt that you should
(02:14):
break free of the bonds of your previous life and
become someone else entirely? That's a question we're addressing today.
I'm Ben, my co host nol Is off on adventures. However,
we have a very special episode for you today with
a very special guest, our returning friend of the show.
(02:37):
Thanks for classing up the place yet again, Christopher Hasiotis.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Hey, thanks for having me. Guys, I can't promise I
can fill Nole's chair, but I will do my darnedest.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I am incredibly excited about this. We didn't we We've
teased your return for some time over the previous epade.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, set expectations, Thank you very high.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, we asked people to write it in immediately
as soon as they heard your voice. But we didn't
tell We didn't tell everyone that you would be coming
on for this and maybe some other episodes in the future.
But we're quite excited to have you. Thank you so much.
I know you've been traveling a lot recently, right.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, We've got a lot of really great new shows
in the works for the iHeart Podcast Network. So listeners,
if you big ridiculous history, keep your eyes on your
screens and your ears on. I don't know what, Ben,
you're better at promoting than I am. What do you say?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Oh, ears to the wind, Keep.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Your ears to the wind of the podcast realm. There
you go.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh, keep your eyes peeled, your ears to the ground right.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Right, and fingertips at the mercy of your soul.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I like the gravitas the Basically, I just want everyone
listening to scroll through their iPhones or their Samsungs or
what have you and subscribe to whatever strikes your fancy.
This is just a long, ridiculous way of saying, yes, Ben,
thank you for having me on. I have been up
to a lot lately. We're putting together a great slate
of new shows coming to the network. All centered around
(04:12):
food and travel and stories of humanity and how all
those things relate to our lives. I will have a
lot more information for you and the listeners of Ridiculous History,
probably in the next month or two, about some really
really great shows that they can watch out for and
hopefully subscribe to and really really dig So in the meantime,
I've just got time to sit here in a booth
(04:34):
with you, which makes me super joyful.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh thank you. Also, of course, we are not diving
into Ridiculous History alone. We are joined as always with
our super producer, Casey Pegram give it up for them, folks.
Casey aar, why I stop like you are also going
to put it in a plaus Q. But Christopher has
(04:58):
just given us a delight full, tantalizing, I would say,
exclusive teaser, because this is the first time we've talked
about some of these projects on air.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, on this show. Yeah, that's right, And so.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
We'll say no more. You pay for the whole seat,
you only need the edge. Check back in in a
month or so and we may have we may have
some new news for you. However, Christopher, you noticed at
the very top of the show we set up the
concept of changing one's identity. Have you ever have you
(05:30):
ever thought about this?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I remember when I was in college, I was at
a rock and roll club and someone had taped on
the wall of one of the restrooms, you know, over
all the terrible band stickers and the graffiti and the
cigarette burns and the scars scratched into the wall, someone
had taped something that said, reinvent yourself, start a new life.
(05:54):
And it was basically not quite an anarchist cookbook, but
directions on how to access a manifests on how to
essentially fake your own death and seize a new identity.
And there was just some sort of narrative, well, who
is going around spreading these pamphlets around rock and roll
clubs in the late nineties and early two thousands. So
(06:14):
I don't know how many how many people out there
are living under assumed identities. You know, we can't all
be Don Draper. But if there is anywhere that's prime
for reinvention and developing a new persona and reinventing yourself,
I mean, I think the United States of America is like,
(06:35):
that's one of the HotBits for it, right, That's one
of the things that we do. We burst forth from
the shackles of our past. We reinvent ourselves. We set
aside our family histories, we invent new family histories. We
just present ourselves as we hope to be. And a
lot of times people just kind of buy it. That's true,
that's so true. The word of the day I'll introduce
(06:57):
here is a pseudo side. That's the technical term for
faking one's death or intempting to do so. And today's
episode hinges on, yeah, just as you said it, Man,
hinges on a fundamentally American idea. We have a somewhat
romanticized or idealized concept of this, of this purposeful reinvention,
(07:21):
this resurrection, rebirth by design, but we don't often talk
about the real life cases, you know, in which these
sorts of tropes occur. And today's story is about a
person who did just that, who reinvented herself. And that's
(07:43):
the sort of thing that normally is it's praised right
to come from humble beginnings to set yourself up to
a life that's that's grander than anything you could have
imagined or that your parents could have set out for you. Normally,
it's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Is that the case here, Well, let's dig into it.
How about that. Let's dig into it and then maybe
at the end you and I can make the call,
and fellow listeners please chime in and let us know
what your take is after you hear the entirety of
the story, because it's important to hear the entirety of
this particular tale. Our story today begins with a woman
(08:20):
named Sarah Wilson. She was born in a Staffordshchild village
in seventeen fifty four, and she was i'd be relatively
well off, not super destitute, because her father was a
professional and he's a bailiff. However, they did have money problems,
(08:41):
and the money problems were such that at the age
of sixteen, Sarah is sent away from home and she
is sent to London to look for employment. This was
not terribly uncommon during this time.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, it's not. She came from humble beginnings. You know,
it's this West Midlands region of England. It's not super industrialized.
She's looking for more opportunity, like many people do. She
heads to the big city. There are some suggestions maybe
she wasn't just looking for money, Maybe she was off
to seek her own ideas of fortune and fame and
kind of build a name for herself, whatever that might mean.
(09:17):
But she does head to London and within a few
weeks she finds work. She's working as a maid for
a woman named Caroline Vernon, and Caroline Vernon was a
lady in waiting for Queen Charlotte, now Queen Charlotte, Queen
of England, but born in Germany. Spoke German German accent
when she's speaking English. You know, this is the sort
(09:40):
of thing where, looking back three four or five hundred
years from especially the vantage point of the United States,
where royalty is a bit of a novelty, we don't
realize how little national borders and family lineage crisscrossed, and
one may or may not have informed the other. So
you have German nationals who are actually the King of England.
(10:02):
You have people from Austria ruling Greece. You have the
mix of whatever blend of Austro Hungarian Habsburg that situation
ruling over bits and pieces of Europe. So it's sort
of like a dual layer in Europe. And it's I
always like to think that the movies just get it wrong,
because everyone's speaking with the same accent, whether it's an
(10:24):
accurate accent or not, it's generally somewhat uniform, whereas it's
maybe not the case then. But I've fallen down a
rabbit hole just talking about historical specificity.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think it's a great point, though, and you've picked
the right show to do this on, because it may
be difficult for many of us in twenty nineteen, in
these our modern days, to understand that it was normal
for the rulers of a country to be completely foreign
(10:55):
in most what we would consider completely foreign in today's terms,
and quote unquote qualified for their position entirely due to
their ancestry. And that's that's what happens. There's a feedback
loop around this time and the centuries preceding it, wherein
you know, if you are a member of a powerful family,
(11:16):
you want your children to only marry members of other
powerful families, and so things get mixed. I'm not making
an inbreeding joke. I'm just saying that's how the thrones
end up being collected and consolidated and passed around.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I will say that this
discussion of languages and accents does come into play a
little later on Sarah Wilson's story.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yes, nice foreshadowing. Yes, okay, So Sarah quickly ingratiates herself.
She is a people person, a slick talker. At this point,
she is playing the role of the perfect maid as
far as Lady and Waiting Caroline Vernon is concerned.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, and she's working at the Queen's House, which if
you or I were to go to London, or any
of the listeners wanted to go to London and go
check out the Queen's House, you can't find it because
what's now there is Buckingham Palace, a little larger, a
little more grand, but that original Queen's House. But that's
the region of London we're talking about. It's still, you know,
the seat of royal power.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Right, quite prestigious. Yes, and at the Queen's House where
as you said, Christopher, Buckingham Palace now stands. Sarah frequently
saw the actual Queen, the wife of King George the Third,
and she quickly, in addition to ingratiating herself with the
upper crust of this community, she also familiarized herself intimately
(12:49):
with the scuttle but the gossip, the things that only
the maids and the butlers and what Downton Abbey would
call the downstairs people were aware of and this got
to her. You know what I mean, because we know
how human psychology works. It has not changed for many
thousands of years. Happiness is often defining comparative terms. So
(13:12):
she is, she's smart, she's quick witted. She has escaped
her small town and done more than many people in
her town would have done. But then she looks around
and she sees, you know, this opulence and these lives
of leisure, and she says, I'm paraphrasing here, why not
me where they got that?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I ain't got That's right? Yeah, I want to get
me some of that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
That's that's a quote, that's you exactly. I think that
was on some plaque somewhere in some dusty tone. But yeah,
that's the thing. So Sarah Wilson being around royalty, knowing royalty,
knowing the comings and goings of royalty, that wasn't enough
for her. She wanted to get a piece of the action,
have a slice for herself, carve out a little nook
(13:58):
in that world. Or maybe she just wanted the things
that she knew she would never ever have on her
own and I mean, this is such a stratified culture
at the time. It still is in many ways. But
when you come from completely humble backgrounds and you are
spending your day around someone who is wearing let's say,
(14:19):
a ring or a crown, or today a pair of sneakers,
or you know, you drive a car that is essentially
worth what your family could make in a decade, and
this is just a trinket to this person. That wealth
imbalance creates tension, and most people in the world can
(14:40):
handle that. Some people can't. And Sarah Wilson was one
of those people. So there was a night when she
was by herself in the Queen's room. She snuck into
a closet, breaks into this cabinet and she takes some jewelry,
some dresses, a ring, and a little miniature portrait of
Queen Charlotte. So it's like, you know, we don't have
(15:00):
an image of what it looks like, but I imagine
it's one of those little sort of cameo portraits. So
maybe a little silhouette, just something that would be a keepsake,
something that a family member of Queen Charlotte would keep
and would you know, would refer to to lovingly remember
their relative. So she takes all these things for herself.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, and she thinks it's no big deal. No one's
going to find out for Pete's sake. This is the
Queen of England.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Right, She's got countless dresses, countless rings, dads of Julia. Yeah.
But the thing is they were not countless. They were counted,
accounted frequently. As is the case with sometimes people of
immense wealth, they also are immensely focused on the things
that make them wealthy. And so Queen Charlotte was no different.
(15:50):
She kept fastidious inventory of her inventory. She knew what
she had, and she knew when something was missing. So
very very very soon after Sarah took these items, they're
notice missing. So the Queen says, all right, we don't
know who did this. I need someone to keep an
(16:10):
eye on.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I thought that was quite clever too.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah. I mean, you don't want to just go off
and start accusing people willy nilly. That might fly with
some royals. Not Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Not Queen Charlotte. No, she sets up a surveillance operation
and think about how many servants must exist in a
royal household. So there's clearly going to be several factions,
and there's also going to be some servants that she
trusts completely and then some that are still a little green,
(16:45):
and then some that she doesn't really interact with. So
we can only imagine that she goes to one of
the servants she legitimately trusts someone or some people with
whom she spent years and years right, and she asked
these people to watch not just the room, but this
particular closet. And this is where Sarah Wilson makes her
(17:09):
first error.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, I mean the criminal returning to the scene of
the crime. It's a trope in crime fiction, but that's
because it happens. That's human nature. You know, maybe your
prime criminal would go for the big score and then
never touch that room again, never go back. But Sarah
was not a professional criminal. She knew she got away
with something once, so she went back to the well again,
(17:33):
or in this case, the cabinet. Yes, but this time,
you know that law and order style stakeout whatever was
going on. It worked, and Sarah Wilson was caught in
the act of trying to rob Queen Charlotte once again.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So this is very very very bad news. The way
the laws work at the time, Sarah Wilson is charged
with theft and violation of the royal privacy.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And that's serious.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That is serious. Yeah, that is serious.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
How serious?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
More so than more so than theft, a violation of
the royal privacy carries with it the death sentence.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Oh that's serious.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yes, So she receives the death sentence, and her original employer,
Lady in waiting Vernon, has not given.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Up on her. That's Caroline Vernon, right, Yes, that is.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Lady car Lady in waiting, Caroline Vernon, and Caroline takes
it upon herself to personally plead to Queen Charlotte please
spare Sarah.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
She's made a mistake. But she maybe is a good girl.
She comes from a good background. She's I like.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Her, and she's so young, right, she's what's how young?
Sixteen seventeen at this age? So her please work somewhat,
and her punishment, the death sentence is commuted to what
they called transportation.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
That sounds nice, it does, it does.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So she was just on subways.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, so where'd they transport her?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They transported her transportation? We should say it was a
didn't mean the same thing it means today. Transportation was
forcible exile. Oh, it's deportation. Got to be the closest
analog we have today, right, So in July seventeen seventy one,
she is placed on a prison ship and sent to Baltimore, Maryland.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
It's a long transportation, it's a long ride.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It is long. You wouldn't want to put the Uber
bill for that. However, things get worse because when she
arrives in the what would become the United States.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So this is it's seventeen seventy one, who were five
years before? Right, everything kind of comes together still.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Just colonies colonies, yep. And she is not put in prison,
she has not given some sort of state level employment
or colonial level employment. She is put up for auction
and sold as a slave.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
So she can't just kind of do her own thing
in the United States or in what would become the
United States. She's just in Maryland, transported there against her will,
although maybe willingly because otherwise the other option is to
be put to death. But then she's just in servitude.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, it's looking grim for Sarah. At this point, she's
sold to a fellow named W. Dval. He is a
planter from Bush Creek, Frederick County.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Do you know what she was doing for mister Devaal.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I have not seen too much detail about that.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
That makes sense though, because I think she wasn't with
him for long.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right, right, right, She wasn't with him for long. And
at this case, you know, it's it's an unpleasant thing
to imagine, but physical abuse was prevalent with people who
were enslaved in this manner slavery in general. So while
we do not have confirmed records of what happened during
(21:06):
her time there, we know that she did not spend
very long there at all. As you said, Christopher, she
sought to improve her situation almost immediately, right she escapes
to Virginia lickety split, and she doesn't just go with
the clothes on her back. This is the weirdest part
of this story.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, this is the sort of thing where our lack
of a time machine is just really a bummer, because
I want to know the details of how this exactly happened.
When she escapes, she still has in her possession, which
means she brought over with her on her transportation from Britain.
She still had one of the rings she stole, she
(21:45):
still had some dresses, and she still had that miniature
portrait of Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But how do you have that?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I don't know. I mean, we like to think that
systems of power are in place and everyone does everything perfectly,
but anyone who has ever dealt with let's say, the police,
or the local county clerk or the ten and collector whoever. Yeah,
sometimes people who are supposed to be doing their jobs,
you know, they check the wrong box, they forget a comma,
(22:15):
and then when you go back to renew, they say, wait,
you're not even in our system. And you say, but
I was in your system. I had a hyphen in
my name and you took it out, and they don't
know what you're talking about. And then all of a
sudden you say, I had a thing of Queen Charlotte
and where is her? And no, I promised this dress
is mine. And I think that's probably how it happened.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And the romantic in me, you know, the fan of
fiction at least, has this this cinematic moment stuck in
my head, which almost certainly didn't happen wherein the queen says,
and take these garments with you, take them. Hence they
are soiled, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
They've been touched by the poor.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, they Yes, they've been touched by the boor, which
should also be a crime.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So at this point we although we're gonna be with
her for the rest of this story, we kind of
say goodbye to Sarah Wilson. We do. We say goodbye
to Sarah Wilson, and we say hello to Princess Susannah
Caroline Matilda, sister of Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Forced into exile in the colonies following a very enigmatic
family scandal.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Oh, you don't want to talk about it. It's too hard,
it's impolite. Now, it's royalty. It's not the sort of
thing you bring up at a polite dinner conversation in Virginia
when you are a princess.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When you are a princess. And also, it would be
violating the privacy of the royal family, and who would
want to do that. That's a crime.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
That's terrible.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So this is strange. First off, the hutsba alone, you know,
congratulations to Princess Susannah Caroline Matilda. This is the kind
of con that is difficult to pull off. However, she
has several powerful things working to her advantage. First, as
(24:08):
you mentioned, Christopher, she has all this stuff. Probably the
most powerful or most impactful of the material possession she
has for her new identity will be that miniature portrait
because of the sentimental value you mentioned earlier. But also
and equally as important here, she has intimate knowledge of
(24:29):
life in the royal court.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, she's on the other side of an ocean, but
she can still talk to people about the goings on
at the Queen's house, who's speaking with whom, and who's
falling out with whom, and how things are going upstairs
and downstairs. And you know, she's presenting herself as Susannah
Caroline Matilda, which I should also add of Mecklenburg Strelitz.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Oh, yes, yes, very important.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, the Mecklenburg Strelitz is a Northern German dynasty sort
of who you know, Queen Charlotte was part of that
family and they've had their bloodline influencing royalty throughout Europe.
But as the former Sarah Wilson is presenting herself as
Susannah Caroline Matilda princess, you know, she really harnesses I
(25:15):
think a bit of nostalgia for what's going on back
to because again, a lot of the people living in
the United States or what would become the United States
still think of themselves as British subjects as you know,
not as American citizens. To them, the stories of the queens,
stories of the king, stories of what's happening in London,
(25:36):
those to them are stories from home. And so there
is that nostalgia and that yearning. And apparently Princess Susannah
really had an easier end with some of the older
generation in Virginia, the ones who still thought of themselves
as British, as English, and you know, she could tell
(25:57):
them what was going on and kind of let them
relive there and maybe it's been decades since they were
back home.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And there's also this there's also this interesting mechanism that
could occur whenever you're working with nostalgia, which is she
could mention a name or a title that these people,
especially the Old Guard, would have been familiar with, and
then let them fill in the blanks based on the
(26:25):
scant information she actually had. And when she does that,
they would feel that they were learning something new, but
just as importantly, they would feel that they were displaying
their knowledge and therefore they were still people with their
what do we say, with their ear to the wind,
their eyes peeled under.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
There, toenails to the grindstone, something like that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Sure, yes, their fingers and the toenails on the pulse,
so they would still feel relevant. Having this knowledge, we
can also, I think reasonably assume that even for the
people who were not the older generation, there was tremendous
social cachet to be had in hosting not just a
(27:11):
member of English aristocracy, but the sibling of the Queen.
And you know already again seventeen seventy one, seventeen seventy two.
As you said, we're just a few years out from
the revolutionary war as we call it in this country.
And this also plays into displays of loyalism.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Well that's the thing. So, you know, Princess Susannah is
telling people she's been sent to the colonies because of
some falling out back home. She can't get into the details,
but she will soon be restored to her rightful position
back home. Ah, yes, and that's you know. So she's
at these dinner parties, at these salons, at these social events, mingling,
(27:56):
whining and dining, and so people are eager to really
buy into the story because if she's telling the truth,
even if there's doubt in their minds. If she's telling
the truth, they are now socially connected to a princess.
So if she's restored to power, Let's say they need
a favor. Let's say they have a son who needs
a high paying position at a company. Let's say they
(28:18):
need some land grants. Let's say they need to, gosh,
I don't know, raise an army for whatever they want
to do, whatever that might be. Yeah, you know, old
rich people, they got things armies can do.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
That is absolutely true. There is a third advantage that
this part of American colonial society sees, and that's you know,
I can pay you, princess, since we are such very
good friends. The typical let's call it an administrative fee,
not a bribe, but the typical administrative fee that would
(28:54):
be expected in order to have myself or a relation
of mine granted a position maybe on the court, maybe
associated with it somehow, with some government organ or body
as soon as you return, and we know that will
be soon. So they saw this as an investment in
(29:15):
many ways. They were they they were actually giving This
is where the con part comes in. They were actually
giving Princess Susannah currency.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
They were giving her money cash money, yes, yash money. Yes.
They speaks just as strongly three hundred years ago as
it does today, but also gifts. You know, I imagine
places to stay, access to carriages, you know, a nice
a nice bedroom for a week, or wardrobe, all that stuff. Here.
(29:46):
Have a horse, yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
We've all been in that situation. Here. You look, take
this horse.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
This one for me, whichever one, princess, whichever one you
want to and you make me feel like one. Chris,
take you Christo.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Learned it all from Casey Pegrove. But you know what,
these sorts of shenanigans are increasingly difficult to pull off
over time.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Over time. And so she went all over the colonies.
This wasn't just Virginia, this wasn't just Maryland. She was
in Georgia, she was in the Carolina. She met the
governor of North Carolina. I mean, this is like high level,
high level stuff. She has access. But people have some questions.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's right, and they want to be very careful with
the manner in which they poose these questions.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
To someone like Princess Susannah Carolina Matilda's sister to the
queen family of Macklenburg. Strelitz nailed it. Not only but
she had a couple other aliases too. She also went
by the Marquisonis de Walde Grave. She was also known
as the Princess of Cronenberg.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No association with the director that we know of, that
we know of, Yes, it's very fair. Yeah. She would
use these names on different occasions, and she would, as
you said, travel widely. She was meeting tremendously influential people,
and folks were starting to ask questions because in these
(31:08):
circles there would be people who speak German.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, if she was supposedly from Germany, raised in Germany, Yeah,
how come you don't speak German?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Right, she refused to perhaps because of the quarrel, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Or she was in the new in the new world,
speaking a new language. But even then she spoke perfect English.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Flawless English.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah you know why, because she was English.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh yeah, kiser SoSE a moment for me. Yeah, but yeah,
people people were saying, well, that's weird because I have
been speaking English for decades and decades and decades. I
grew up speaking German and I still have a little
bit of an accent, you know. What I mean, So
why is she flawless with it? And then there was
(31:55):
another question that seems very obvious to us in retrospect.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Well, that's it's the one where everyone thinks, wait a minute,
does Queen Charlotte have a sister?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Right? Why haven't I heard of her?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Maybe maybe she's able to turn it around and really
play on people's insecurities and say, maybe I wasn't important
enough to know about the Queen's sister.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, Or maybe you're not. Yeah, maybe you're not as
plugged in as you want other people at this dinner
party to believe. And so people probably for some time
that strategy is effective, and people are reticent to voice
their concerns because they don't want to seem to be
the odd person out.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Might I also suggest that maybe men act a little
dumb in the presence of someone who might be a princess.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think that is an excellent suggestion, having not, to
my knowledge at this point in life, interacted with a princess.
I can't speak from experience, but I feel like that
is I feel like that is, unfortunately a very stute observation.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Men can be dumb no way.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So you're right, though, that's a good point. That's one
that a lot of historians don't talk about.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well, it's not necessarily brought up. It's not like all
these people who are giving her gifts are described as
as suitors particularly, but knowing men, knowing that sort of
patriarchal society that was in place at the time, I
have to imagine that some of these people who are
wealthy landowners in the colonies, meeting a single young princess
(33:29):
applying her with gifts might have some motives of marrying
into royalty or other motives. Yeah. Absolutely, And men will
do dumb things, yes, when they have those motives. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean I would say people in general. But in
this situation, it's only fair to note that that trend
toward thick headedness is probably accelerated in men.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
So the scam didn't hold.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
The scam did not hold because speaking of men, we
have to reintroduce a character that briefly appeared earlier in
the tale, a mister w Devall, who it turns out,
is not happy about Sarah Wilson as he knew.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Her, and maybe not that dumb of a man, because eventually,
after a couple of years pass he hears a description
of this princess. He hears talk and he probably says,
oh that wow, a princess in the colonies. That's interesting.
What does she look like? And they say, this is
what she looks like, and he says, I know someone
who looks like that, Yes, and it's Sarah Wilson.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And he has been trying to find this the one
that got away. Literally, so it is autumn of seventeen
seventy three. Remember, she's been on the runs since seventeen
seventy one ish, and.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He's been looking for her, actually since seventeen seventy one.
I have here in front of me from the Pennsylvania Gazette,
published on October eleventh, seventeen seventy one, an advertisement for
a runaway slave. And this is what William Devall wrote
in the newspaper back in seventeen seventy one. It took
out an ad run away from the subscriber a convict
(35:12):
servant maid named Sarah Wilson, but has changed name to
Lady Susanna Carolina Matilda, which has made the public believe
that she was His Majesty's sister. And here's where we
get into the realizing what she looked like she has
a blemish in her right eye, black rolled hair, stoops
in the shoulders, makes a common practice of writing, and
marked her clothes with a crown and a bee. Whosoever
(35:35):
secures the said servant woman or takes her home, shall
receive five pistols besides all costs and charges. So if
you find Sarah Wilson, all your expenses are paid and
you get five pistols.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
What a deal.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Five pistols. And I should say, I'm going to applaud
myself for reading that, because this is an old timey
advertisement from an old timey newspaper, and it's got those
medialess's which are such a pain. They look like an
f they do look like without the crossbar. They go
all the way back to old English, and I'm glad
that they're gone. Now, you know the thank thank you
(36:12):
movable type. We don't need all those weird looking s's
that make everything sound like an Act of Congress.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Act of Congress. Yes, yeah, it's true. Those are a pain.
And I applaud your recital there, Christopher.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I applaud Casey for cutting out all of my flubs
love flubs. No, well, that's the thing you use a
curvys at the end, but not at the beginning. So
if it looks like the word flub is flubd, but
the word flubs would to us look like flubs.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And we can only hope that old man Willie D
was going through the same process as he was writing
this advertisement.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So I really really hope at some point there's some
sort of merchandise out there that people can have a
bumper sticker or a a little a little pin, or
some just gaudy T shirt they can wear that says,
you know, I am a proud, ridiculous historian.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's great, Casey, do you like that one?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love that idea historians. Yeah, medial s's for everyone.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Casey on the case. We'll put it to a vote
to let us know what you think about these What
are they called medial.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
A medial s? Yeah, it's it's also known as a
long S because a short S is the short, round
one or curvy or you know, just an Sso as
we would say.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I like the I like the depths of resentment that
are that are emanating across the tape.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Hey, Mat, you didn't have to read this, so I
might we do have another bit of old timy newspaper
right here, I may pass it to you and uh,
and you to the test.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
We've created a monster.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
But months monthter month, monthter.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Monthter, that's fun to say.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I actually we should get back on track. So they're
on the hunt.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, the word is out. And in addition to publicizing
this advertisement and appeal in offering this reward, he sends
he being Willie, sends one of his employees, a man
named Michael Dalton, to retrieve Sarah. Dalton has you know,
(38:26):
he has a certain set of skills. Liam Neeson's style
we can only assume because he does eventually track the
princess down to a plantation in Charleston right after she left,
so he is hot on her wake, hot on her trail.
And then he doesn't give up. He follows the clues
(38:48):
Carmen San Diego style, and he finds her at a
neighboring plantation. He captures her. He takes her back to
that estate in Bush Creek, Frederick County.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
And that's in Virginia.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yes, yeah, that's in Virginia.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Is that the end of the story. She just gets
captured and she goes right back into servitude.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, Sometimes things just end I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I'm kidding, Okay, I I mean it's always home on
this pony.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Right, Well, you still have to take some time to
name the pony before before we ride it out, and
I would I would advise something heavy on the f's
and the s's. But this is not the end of
the story, is it, Christopher.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
You know it's not. There's more scamming ahead, as as
may not be so surprising with miss Sarah Wilson. So
Sarah is on the plantation, she's working at this point.
It's seventeen seventy five, though, but Devall's not at home
because he has left the plantation to fight in the
militia for the American War of Independence.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yes, which we now know as the Revolutionary War. And
while he is gone, a very very strange qui sentence
of hers. This is the kind of thing you can't
write in fiction because no one will believe you.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yeah, it seems like this seems like a really unsatisfying
end to things because it's just so improbable. But according
to the historical record, this is what happened. Another either
enslaved person or servant girl, also by the name of
Sarah Wilson crosses paths with Sarah Wilson that you and
(40:27):
I and the listeners now.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And this is very vague. We want, we want to
let all of our fellow listeners know. We are very
well aware that this is incredibly vague. Somehow our Sarah Wilson,
the former princess, is able to switch I guess, bodies
or make people confuse the new Sarah Wilson for her.
(40:52):
And then during this confusion, while her owner is away,
while this creep the all is away, she escapes and
this time she heads north.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, the southward direction did not work out so well
for her in the past when she was a princess,
so she splits. She goes north. She leaves Sarah Wilson
the second in place of Sarah Wilson. The first too
bad for Sarah Wilson. The second. I guess. We think
this is the end of her story, although maybe she
was already gonna be on that plantation anyway. And Sarah
Juan was like, oh, no, no, that's Sarah Wilson over there.
(41:25):
Are you looking for Sarah Wilson. That's Sarah. Hey, are
you named Sarah Wilson, And she says, yeah, that's me.
And then she's like, well, I'm just gonna walk away
as you guys go talk to her. And you know,
there's just a lot of this like convincing people and
gift of gab. You know, you've got to really be
a smooth talker. This reminds me of the story a
(41:48):
little bit of that bridge.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, yeah, Tabor Bridge, right, the two French marshals who
decided to con their way across the Daniel.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, you and Noel had a really great episode about this,
and thanks man. Yeah, you know, ridiculous historians. If you
have not listened to that episode, go dig it up.
I mean, we kind of just gave you the surprise ending.
But it's still a great story regardless. There's all sorts
of weird boasting and French chest puffery and you know,
almost bombings and Hungarian Confusion and which, by the way,
(42:23):
really good band name.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I think Hungarian Confusion. That is an excellent band name.
My friend, Yeah, Hungary. I'm hang on, sorry, everybody listening,
I'm gonna write that down.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Okay. Ken's actually just filing for an LLC right now, Yes,
Gary Revolution. But Sarah Wilson, she is not confused about
what she's doing. She heads out of Virginia goes north
and at least for the foreseeable future, lives a somewhat
normal life. Still has a lot of her money, which
(42:57):
she again.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Like, where where is she put it?
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Where does the money go? Where does she keep it?
Are there secret bank accounts? Does she have secret pockets?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Has she literally buried boxes of coin?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Maybe she has just like a lot of hair, Yeah,
just like a huge head of hair, and there's just
like envelopes of money in there. Could be I.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Mean, at the time, it may have been a sound investment.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah, you know, some money sewn into the lining of
a coat or something like that. Anyway, she's got all
this money, and she ends up all the way up
in New York. She actually meets a young military man
named William Talbot.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Or alternatively Sterling.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Oh is that right?
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well sometimes it differs, it depends on the source. But yeah,
she meets this. She meets a nice young man and
he is a military man. He's an officer in the
light Dragoons. And the war transpires. Spoiler alert, This part
of the North American continent becomes a country we call
the United States today.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Part of it.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, you're familiar with its work, and the couple decides
to stay in this new country.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
What are they doing?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Probably they're avoiding arrest For Sarah, she turns to England,
but they also she uses her money. Maybe she did this,
maybe she kept jewelry and then sold the jewelry. That
might have happened. But she uses this money that she
has acquired to set up her husband as a businessman,
(44:30):
and they live, as far as we can tell from
the record, they live happily. Ever after. They have a
lot of kids, and they set up their residence in
the Bowery in New York, which at the time was
a quiet, nice neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Kind of a happy ending for her, it is.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Especially when you consider how close she came to very
very terrible things. I don't know. It also reminds me
in a way. You remember that Disney film Pinocchio, right stories, So,
as a kid, I thought Pinocchio was really cool until
one of my friends later on, years and years later,
pointed out to me that Pinocchio has this horrible lesson
(45:14):
for children in terms of morality.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well, I'll keep it brief. But Pinocchio from his beginning
is told to do the following kind of things or
not do these things so that he can ultimately become
self actualized and be a real boy. He breaks all
of those rules or those commandments or whatever, and then
at the end he gets the reward. Anyway, that's true.
(45:37):
So did Sarah Wilson have a moment? We can tell.
One thing we can tell that differentiates her from other
con artists is that when she got to a good spot,
she stopped. There are other con artists who just can't
give up the game.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Well, there was a point though, you know, And this
is where I'd like more detail about her life. And
I mean this to me seems ripe for some Hollywood
tale and I'd love to see this turn into a
film and really dig into the story. But there was
a time before she met her husband, after she escaped Virginia,
Oh yes, where she she had this little side escapade.
And there's not a lot that I could dig up
(46:15):
about this, but she she teamed up with this with
this criminal who was known by the alias of Tom Bell.
He was an irishman also known as Patrick O'Connor. But
they they kind of worked together for a while and
he introduced himself to people as mister Edward Augustus Montague,
(46:35):
a gentleman of fortune and betrothed lover of Princess Susannah
Carolina Matilda. Yeah, so, I maybe maybe the princess came
back after her her flight from Virginia and before she
settled in New York. Maybe there's this this sort of
interim of her flirting again with this world of intrigue
and all the scams. Yeah, and I don't know much
(46:56):
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
We don't know, Like we as species don't know much
about this part of her life, which makes it by
far one of the most intriguing and fascinating. We don't
know much about Patrick O'Connor or his alias Tom Bell,
but we do know that they did for a brief time.
(47:18):
She did go into a two person con act, and
who knows, maybe they really were betrothed.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
I don't know. I mean, he was a fairly well
known criminal at the time. I mean, this could be
the sort of thing where maybe they pulled off one
last heist and she got out of the life. It's
a sort of you know, like a like a Danny
Ocean kind of situation where she teams up with this
acclaimed crime guy, she gets what she needs and you
know she has her happily ever after.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
You also have to wonder whether the man who ultimately
became her husband knew about her stint as a princess
knew did she tell him her true, true, true story,
or did she say like, maybe I'm an orphan and
this is my family fortune. Yeah, I love you, I
don't want to talk about my past. Let's start a
(48:08):
new life together in the Bowery. And then maybe he
just went head over heels Christopher. Maybe he was just like, well,
I'm in love and being a dude, I'm kind of dumb.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
And I do need some money. I do and I do.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Need some as you said, cash money.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Oh speaking of cash money, Benett, Yes, I thought this
might be a good way to wrap up because I
this is a little off topic, but it's related to
some royalty and some cash money. I wanted to get
your opinion and ridiculous historians. If you have any advice
for me. I got this email from a Nigerian prince.
Oh okay, do tell And he's asking for some money?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Should I help him out?
Speaker 1 (48:51):
How much money is he asking for?
Speaker 3 (48:53):
More than I've got? Oh?
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Okay? Then without having a doctorate, in finance, I would
advise you depending on how much. Well, first, how much
time do you have.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
I don't have enough time. I'll spoiler alert. Yes I'm
not giving this guy any money. But the thing is,
you know, we're talking about this weird scam of someone
putting themselves forth as royalty, and it sounds like the
sort of thing like, oh, this is just a thing
that you know, those historical roubs back in the day
fell for. It's going on still. I in preparing to
(49:28):
come chat with you guys here. I did a little
digging and there was a report last year from the
Security Services ADT. In twenty eighteen alone, people in the
United States fell prey to the Nigerian scams and other
sort of email scams like that where people are just
asking for money to the tune of more than seven
hundred thousand dollars last year alone, and it averaged out
(49:51):
to about two one hundred dollars per person.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
So this this scam of royalty, this desire to buy
into to a story, this ability to be hoodwinked. You know,
I think it's just baked into humanity. It's just who
we are, we want to believe, we want to help.
And if someone says they're a prince or a princess, hey,
why not wow?
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And it gets our inner foxmoulder. Huh. I want to
believe what I was going to advise you to do
off the record, again, not being a doctorate, just between you, Casey,
me and the millions of us listening.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
You're not recording this, Casey, right right, this is all
off the record, perfect. I just don't want this out
in the world. That would be embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
I've read accounts of people who essentially scammed the scammers,
which is on the murky side of unethical pranking.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
What do you talk that is fighting the good fights?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Well, the idea is, you know, they'll say stuff like, sure,
you've contacted me, I do have this money. I will
give you this information, but first I want to know.
First you need to prove something in good faith or whatever.
And I've found situations wherein someone convinced the scammer or
someone who knows the scammer to get a tattoo or
(51:12):
to write essays about Harry Potter and things of that nature. So,
if you have the time and the inclination, and you
don't feel particularly guilty about trolling people, who are trying
to steal from you. Then then I would advise to
find I would advise you to find the funniest prank
to pull.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
We'll check back in.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
We'll check back in, and perhaps, Christopher, one day you
will be known too, as as a genius of the
con because one of the most American things about about
the way we treat con artists here in the US
is that they are often begrudgingly admired, you know what
(51:57):
I mean. The idea of this, this slick talking, clever
individual violating social norms and getting away with it, it's
imprinted into our DNA. And that's why the Providence Rhode
Island Gazette and Country Journal in January of seventeen seventy
four noted that Sarah Wilson is quote the most surprising
(52:19):
genius of the female sex that was ever obliged to
visit America. Let's just walk past that blatant, you know,
misogyny there. They're basically saying smart for a woman, because
they're being jerks. But what they're also doing, and what
I think is more important for our purposes here, is
they are praising the intelligence of this person. They're saying,
(52:44):
this is one of the smartest people in this country.
Too bad they're not a politician or you know, a philanthropist.
Can't win them all, can't win them all. But I
feel like this was a big win for Casey, Nol
and Spirit and I to have you over on the show,
and we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We want
(53:07):
to hear from you. Let us know some of your
favorite historical cons other than the Trojan Horse, other than
that one, you know, that's that's sort of like going
to carry Oka and playing don't Stop Believing.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
And whatever we want to call this con of you
somehow being convinced to let me sit in here and
chat with you guys, feel like I've scammed everyone.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Hey, yeah, that's it. Hey, that's a good question. Is
your name Christopher, isn't it? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Casey.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I believe him. He's just got such a such an
amicable air about him.
Speaker 3 (53:39):
You know, no comment, all right, just call me princess.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Oh wow, you guys are in on this together. Well,
here's hoping that I don't get scammed out of millions
of dollars. But if I do, I'm glad it was
from you. To thank you as always to our super producer,
Casey Pegram. Thank you to Alex Williams, who composed our track.
Thank you to Gabe, our research associate. Christopher, we often
(54:04):
thank you on this show, so it's a little strange
that you're here now. I'm really glad to thank you
in person. Thanks for coming on, man.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
You're welcome. Thank you for having me Bannon, and thanks
for having me ridiculous Historians.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
And stay tuned for our next episode, wherein Christopher and
I will explore not a not a con.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
No, things are going to get a little uh grimeier Gramer,
Gramer grammar Grimeer, just a little dark. Well gross, what fun?
It's still ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Stay tuned
Speaker 2 (54:44):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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